WTF?! No Visual Effects?

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Darth Subjekt
How can you have a Visual Effects category and NOT include Star Wars? Even if I wasn't a SW fan I would wonder that. The Academy is nuttier than squirrel turds.

Well does anyone know if they're nominated at ALL? Maybe he's never included due to the fact that he pissed off Hollywood in his earlier years. But I think its time that SW gets an Oscar!!

Jedi Priestess
Where have you been? And they didn't win in the one category they were nominated either. Should have had a nomination for costumes anyway.

Darth Subjekt
Ah ive been workin and raising a 5 month old baby girl...yea we didnt even get Makeup...what a jip! I HATE THE OSCARS!!!! SW always gets shit on...

how've you been?

Jedi Priestess
peachy keen jelly bean, not here much anymore alliance keeps me pretty busy, how have you been?

chinabing
It is an outrage. SW practically invented the category!

Captain REX
Hmm. Well, they tend to overdo it and would probably rape everyone in their respective categories, so they leave them out, I suppose.

DeVi| D0do
It just wasn't up to par.

Darth Sadistic
Well, I saw two of the three films nominated for makeup and I love Star Wars, but honestly, the makeup in the Narnia film was better.

Mišt
I always get confused between the two categories, Visual and Special, was Visual for CGI stuff or for other stuff? confused

Cause if this was for CGI stuff....meh, some parts were good, some parts were shit.

Mustafar was nice for visuals....can't win an award for a single scene though...

Darth Sadistic
I think they are one and the same Mist, I don't know that there is a special effects category anymore.

Jedi Priestess
Originally posted by Darth Sadistic
Well, I saw two of the three films nominated for makeup and I love Star Wars, but honestly, the makeup in the Narnia film was better.

Oh no way Sadistic. ROTS was superior by sheer scope of the make up. There were by far more aliens, and Anakins make-up from the lava bath went way beyond Narnia.

Darth Sadistic
There were more characters to make up, but I thought the overall quality and consistency in Narnia was better. Of course, the whole process is a mess anyway, so you can't always expect the best of the best to win or even get nominated. Narnia should have at least gotten a nomination for Best Score and was passed over.

Still, at least they got some recognition, which is tough for fantasy films to get at the Oscars, especially fantasy films with so much of the production crew and cast from outside of the States. I'm just glad they won something, it was a great piece of work.

kalsemo
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
It just wasn't up to par.


shame on you...
mad

tlbauerle
Subjekt...congrats on the baby girl!

As for the Oscars, I'm satisfied with nearly all the awards, with exception for best song..."In the Deep" certainly should have won.

Even considering make-up, compare Ian's 'Emperor' in SITH to JEDI...It looked a hell of a lot better in JEDI.

Alliance
Anyway...when episodes I and II were nominated for special effects, they didn't win either. No way Episode III was going to win. Kong's effects were far superior to Star Wars. Lucas keeps doing the same thing and he's not going to get nominated for that. When he does break through, like in Episode I and in Episode II, then he gets the nod.

Captain REX
Yup.

And the makeup in Star Wars just seemed...overdone. The makeup in Narnia was pretty awesome, IMO.

Costuming, though...not even a nomination? Sheesh!

KENobi™
Originally posted by Alliance
Anyway...when episodes I and II were nominated for special effects, they didn't win either. No way Episode III was going to win. Kong's effects were far superior to Star Wars. Lucas keeps doing the same thing and he's not going to get nominated for that. When he does break through, like in Episode I and in Episode II, then he gets the nod.

I have to disagree with you about Kong's supposedly superior graphics. Too much green screen work was used and they spent all their time working on Kong, so that other aspects of CGI looked totally shitty. Kong himself? Yes, he looked fantastic, much better than the Episode III graphics, but overall the movie fell short.

Don't get me wrong, Episode III had a lot of shit work on it too. I'm not a fan of CGI or of green screen work. I prefer the more traditional filming of a movie.

That right there is why the PT sucked so bad, it wasn't real anymore. The OT, now that was real. Real people, real bad guys...even if they were cheap puppets or guys in a foam latex suit. The movies had the lighting perfect because the lighting elements were actually there. The actors had someone to act against, etc.

Stun
what a way for the Star Wars Saga to go out, huh!

Peoples Choice Awards - much better ceremony!stick out tongue

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Stun
what a way for the Star Wars Saga to go out, huh!

Peoples Choice Awards - much better ceremony!stick out tongue

thumb up yes

darthmaul1
Star wars got screwed over in the oscars.
They were only nominated for makeup
Narnia gets it and all they did for the scene they showed was tape some ears to an actor, but Ian Mcdirmid sits for 4 hours or so and totaly transforms into something else and gets nothing what a crock.

The oscars are a popularity contest or if you have been nominated 3 times before and you are nominated again you'll get the sympathy oscar, eg (Sean Penn Mystic river) it should of gone to Johnny Depp.

We were actually betting on who would win, for costumes I picked Charlie and the Chocolate factory cause that actually took some imagination to come up with (like star wars) and they give it to Memoirs of a Geisha cause that was a popular movie?? Hmmm let's see what clothes did they wear back then? Oh ya I'll just look at some pictures. What a joke

Lana
Originally posted by darthmaul1
Star wars got screwed over in the oscars.
They were only nominated for makeup
Narnia gets it and all they did for the scene they showed was tape some ears to an actor, but Ian Mcdirmid sits for 4 hours or so and totaly transforms into something else and gets nothing what a crock.

The oscars are a popularity contest or if you have been nominated 3 times before and you are nominated again you'll get the sympathy oscar, eg (Sean Penn Mystic river) it should of gone to Johnny Depp.

We were actually betting on who would win, for costumes I picked Charlie and the Chocolate factory cause that actually took some imagination to come up with (like star wars) and they give it to Memoirs of a Geisha cause that was a popular movie?? Hmmm let's see what clothes did they wear back then? Oh ya I'll just look at some pictures. What a joke

You don't know much about costume making, do you. And for the record, Memoirs of a Geisha was not a hugely popular movie, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was MUCH bigger.

Anyway, the only award I think SW should have been nominated for was Costume, because coming from the aspect of someone who makes costumes....the ones from SW are insane, though ROTS's aren't so much as AOTC or TPM.

J.M FcThumbs-Up

Darth Subjekt
this is true. But I remember a few months ago, GL got some kind of award for SW and he said something to the affect of, "Star Wars is considered one of the greatest sagas yet Oddly enough, Star Wars doesn't receive too many awards." something like that and then thanked the fans, blah blah blah...

I just think he gets snubbed because like said, he wants to be independent, and that pisses people off. Like when he refused to put the actors names in the beginning of the films. He gets respect for going against the grain like that, from me at least. I think more people need to do that these days...but yes, later in life SW will get it due recognition and go down as the greatest, or one of the greatest films EVER.

Thanks Todd, appreciate the kind words.

Alliance
The Academy is a collective art critic...its not about whats popular, its about the art. No Star Wars film has been outstanding in this respect save one, Star Wars (which won six oscars and rightfully so AND should have won best picture).

Darth Sadistic
Originally posted by darthmaul1
Star wars got screwed over in the oscars.
They were only nominated for makeup
Narnia gets it and all they did for the scene they showed was tape some ears to an actor, but Ian Mcdirmid sits for 4 hours or so and totaly transforms into something else and gets nothing what a crock.

I know that all they showed was the faun's ears in the blurb on the Oscars, but in reality, he spent 3 1/2 to 4 hours in makeup daily as well, for a lot more than just ears, and there was a lot more to the film's makeup than just the faun. Two seconds isn't much time to show the expanse of a film's work.

chinabing
It's a popularity contest. For some reason Lucas isn't popular with academy members, and he didn't get nominated.

Same reason why Gibson didn't get nominated for TPOTC.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by chinabing
It's a popularity contest. For some reason Lucas isn't popular with academy members, and he didn't get nominated.

Same reason why Gibson didn't get nominated for TPOTC.

Which was way better in '04 than Million Dollar Baby.

laughing out loud

J.M FcThumbs-Up

J.M FcThumbs-Up

Mišt

Jedi Priestess
For the record here, The Academy of Motion Pictures is and has for many years, been one big political machine. Corruption is very much alive and well when it comes to Oscar ballots. I'm not saying this from the point of view of a Star Wars an either. In years past there have been many, MANY films that had higher technical and artistic merit that were not granted awards over films that shouldn't have gotten them. no expression

Mišt
I rarely watch these shows, but can you chuck an example out so I know whereabouts you're coming from?

J.M FcThumbs-Up

Mišt
Indeedly so, so its no big deal if SW isnt nominated. Its still hugely successfull and loved, not winning an award doesnt make it less of a good movie.

J.M FcThumbs-Up
Nice sig.....mine is as old as raisins!!!!

Darth Sadistic
I agree with JP, it is corrupt. And so many of the Academy members are actors that I'm sure their views are slanted anyway. Still, it's hard to see good films/performances passed over whenever it happens.

Blaxican_Jedi
Originally posted by Captain REX
Hmm. Well, they tend to overdo it and would probably rape everyone in their respective categories, so they leave them out, I suppose.

Much like Lotr..ah yes those were the days...just..killed...everyone... But back to the presant Starwars won a butt load of tech awards. Just no from the oscers.

Lord Mader
blame GL for not directing good, rots acting wasn't that good at all there was only like 1 nomination and that was for episode 2, i dunno which awards was it tho, but they didn't win at all. The speical affects and story line is good, but it's all about acting

Alliance

chinabing
No, the Oscars are a mutual admiration society / association annual meeting / great excuse for a party / vote-for-the-person you want to suck up to next.

ROTS had all this critical acclaim from critics and it also ruled the box office this year. Yet there was nothing in the Stewart quips, no mention besides the makeup bit, nothing.

Stewart could have walked out dressed as Vader, (to the Imperial March), took off the mask and said "Clooney, I am your father" or some shtick like that.

Where's the love? At least Wallace & Gromit won.

Darth Sadistic
Originally posted by chinabing
Stewart could have walked out dressed as Vader, (to the Imperial March), took off the mask and said "Clooney, I am your father" or some shtick like that.

Now THAT would have been funny!!! Much funnier than that green suit stunt that Ben Stiller did.

Mišt
Originally posted by chinabing


Where's the love?

ROTS is not the only movie out there, its probably one of the better ones, but life aint about Star Wars 24/7.

Alliance
I think Stewart in bed with Clooney was funny enough.

J.M FcThumbs-Up

Darth Sadistic
Originally posted by Alliance
I think Stewart in bed with Clooney was funny enough.

That part was funny, but it was mostly downhill from there sad

Eleonora
Originally posted by Darth Sadistic
Well, I saw two of the three films nominated for makeup and I love Star Wars, but honestly, the makeup in the Narnia film was better.

You have got to be kidding me. No way.

BTW the Academy never liked George (at least not after the films became a billion-making machine) so I'm not surprised.....bas*ards!
Personally I thought Stewart pulled it off, being a host is never easy, I thought he was witty.
On the note, I did not approve of the acting awards but I was overjoyed by the surprise win for best picture.

Darth Sadistic
Originally posted by Eleonora
You have got to be kidding me. No way.

No, not kidding at all really. I'm one of the biggest Star Wars fans out here, but thought Narnia's make up was better with the fauns, the red and black dwarfs, other creatures, etc.

Eleonora

Darth Sadistic

EPIIIBITES
Remember me? First time back since...

I really don't think the Academy members know what the heck they're looking for when they're deciding on best effects. It's ridiculous...

I really think they can see something as amazing as, for example, the first shot of the Utapau dwellings...which look unbelievable...and not really have it sink in that they are looking at something that has been created out of nothing...a virtual and believable environmnet...or characters like Yoda (on the Blockade Runner or in the "Records" room), or Padme's ship landing on Mustafar...it's an unbelievably, amazingly, huge accomplishment...I really think it's so good that they don't even realize it's something...created out of nothing...that looks like it's there. It seriously goes over their heads.

For the sheer number of effects in Episode III, and occasional top notch ones at that, it should've gotten the award. No doubt, the Star Wars ILM crew are like "whatever...anyone who knows anything about effects knows we kicked butt."

Darth Sadistic
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
No doubt, the Star Wars ILM crew are like "whatever...anyone who knows anything about effects knows we kicked butt."

True enough, and ILM did some of the work on the Narnia film as well. I think there were actually 3 effects companies working together on LWW. So, at least ILM did get a nod in its nomination for its work on that film.

EPIIIBITES
A lot, not all, of the effects in Peter Jackson movies look weird. It's like he tries to make his films look like paintings or something.

EPIIIBITES
I think a big reason Ep II and III are just a cut above has a lot to do with us seeing the effects having been digitally filmed.

DeVi| D0do
See, that's why I like the FX in TPM so much more... It just looks so much more real. In episodes II and III everything looks cartoony and fake...

Red Superfly
I can think of a few films where the effects were better and more memorable than Revenge Of The Sith.

Everything is CGI, and looks CGI.

Visual effects are about creating something that looks solid. There is no doubt Revenge Of The Sith had amazing visuals, but they were used wrongly. Overkill may be another word to describe it. This is what matters.

Sin City for a start, used all manner of tricks to get itself looking superior, and used its effects perfectly. Compare the transformation of Mickey Rourke into Marv comparred to the plastic looking Emperor, and I think Sin City beats ROTS on many levels.

Batman Begins, decided to try and recreate its visuals using set-work, oldschool techniques and live action. The fact they actually built the Batmobile for real and only relied on CGI when they truly couldn't use anything else (eg the bats) means it got effects that no amount of CGI could achieve. It was very impressive.

Hell take Serenity's opening chase sequence. The rigger thing they were flying/sat on looked like it was truly there, with people actually sat on it, getting attacked by wind and inertia. I can't say that about ROTS' craft sequnces.

King Kongs effects however, were absolute rubbish, across the board, comparred to ROTS, I have to say. The matte work in King Kong is just shabby (see the ship scenes) comparred to ROTS's superior blending (see most of the movie).

Just because Star Wars has cutting edge CGI, doesn't mean it deserves to win a visual effects award. CGI is one aspect of visual effects.

I'd love to agree with the wailing fanboys, but ROTS didn't deserve any prizes above the more superior (both in visuals and overall quality) movies of the year.

EPIIIBITES
Yeah...I think if you gotta make an example of one film that did it right with the effects they created and when and how they used them, Batman Begins is as good as it gets.

I felt though that part in Serenity was frustrating...using limiting camera shots that hid what was actually pushing or pulling that prop. Sure it looked real...but it just felt like the audience wasn't getting to see what it wanted to see...which in this day and age movie effects buffs have grown accustomed to expect (for good or for bad). We've been spoiled.

Good points though Superfly.

DeVi| D0do
Without a doubt Batman Begins had the most seamless Visual Effects last year...

BUT... King Kong himself is, in my opinion, the single greatest visual effect of all time. And I'm assuming that is what swayed the academy's vote... because some of the other FX in the film were just atrocious (see the brontosaur stampede - Worst. Composition. Ever.)

Mišt
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Yeah...I think if you gotta make an example of one film that did it right with the effects they created and when and how they used them, Batman Begins is as good as it gets.

I felt though that part in Serenity was frustrating...using limiting camera shots that hid what was actually pushing or pulling that prop. Sure it looked real...but it just felt like the audience wasn't getting to see what it wanted to see...which in this day and age movie effects buffs have grown accustomed to expect (for good or for bad). We've been spoiled.

Good points though Superfly.

Thats the whole style of Serenity/Firefly, its not supposed to be a clean cut film like Star Wars, they do stuff against convention. One of the best things about it really, its so different from everything else.

Council#13
WHAT?! THEY DIDNT GET SPECIAL EFFECTS?! This is an outrage! Dont tell me Chronicles of Narnia or Memoirs of a Geisha got them!!!! furious those academy nominators dont know SQUAT about good special effects! Star Wars should have at LEAST gotten best make-up!!!! Look at the alien's faces!!!!! Chronicles of NARNIA got it, that movie with BARELY ANY MAKE-UP at all!!!! furious Those idiot academy nominators!!!! Those morons who cant even tell what has good special effects and make-up from a movie that just has a talking beaver and a man in a stupid brown coat who says he's santa!!!! ranting I cant even EXPRESS my fury and irritation!!!!

Darth Sadistic
Originally posted by Council#13
WHAT?! THEY DIDNT GET SPECIAL EFFECTS?! This is an outrage! Dont tell me Chronicles of Narnia or Memoirs of a Geisha got them!!!! furious those academy nominators dont know SQUAT about good special effects! Star Wars should have at LEAST gotten best make-up!!!! Look at the alien's faces!!!!! Chronicles of NARNIA got it, that movie with BARELY ANY MAKE-UP at all!!!! furious Those idiot academy nominators!!!! Those morons who cant even tell what has good special effects and make-up from a movie that just has a talking beaver and a man in a stupid brown coat who says he's santa!!!! ranting I cant even EXPRESS my fury and irritation!!!!

There was a lot of makeup in Narnia and more in visual effects than Mr. Beaver and Father Christmas (Aslan, centaurs, satyrs, fauns, minotaurs, a phoenix, etc). There were 600 people on the set of that film, many of them actually in the movie as different characters or creatures. James McAvoy (Tumnus) spent 3 1/2 to 4 hours in "makeup prep" daily for his scenes.

I think we can all agree that the Academy does not make the best decisions as has been discussed many times in this thread.

Kong got Visual Effects I believe. I can't speak to its being deserving of it or not as I didn't see the film. Star Wars was not nominated, though the effects were good in many areas. However, there were a couple of parts that were a little lacking. The whole Sideous arrest scene comes to mind with Ian's double's face not replaced, a couple of the lightsaber hiccups, etc. Some of the other effects in ROTS were quite good however.

Council#13
Oh. Well then..... cut out half of what I had said.
Replace with this:




King Kong is a stupid over rated movie, just like how Peter Jackson is over rated. In the LOTR movies, there werent even proper battles, just good special effects and sieges (most fights entail a horse knocking over a little slimy monster while the rider sits there asleep). King Kong's special effects were NO MATCH for Star War's. The beginning space battle was UNBEATABLE and the shoot out between the natives and the sailors was not even on the same calibre the lightsaber to lightsaber and other fights in star wars. the only good special effects part in King Kong was Kong fighting those Tyranosaurs and that ridiculous stampede of Apatasaurs. Practically ALL of Star Wars was filmed infront of a blue/green screen; no other movie can even HOPE to compare with the special effects of star wars, nevermind KING KONG.

chinabing
Eh, people vote for the director of the movie they want to work with next.

That way they can say at the next Hollywood Party. "Loved your work on 'Kong.' I voted for you ya know. Let's do lunch."

DeVi| D0do
They'd say that even if they didn't vote for them...

Sith Master X
Well I thought King Kong was an excellent movie, but I'll agree that the special effects came no where close to matching Star Wars.

EPIIIBITES

DarthBanevv
Originally posted by Darth Sadistic
There were more characters to make up, but I thought the overall quality and consistency in Narnia was better. Of course, the whole process is a mess anyway, so you can't always expect the best of the best to win or even get nominated. Narnia should have at least gotten a nomination for Best Score and was passed over.

Still, at least they got some recognition, which is tough for fantasy films to get at the Oscars, especially fantasy films with so much of the production crew and cast from outside of the States. I'm just glad they won something, it was a great piece of work. You have got to be kidding me. Star Wars score has always and will always be best. And is that even a category?

DeVi| D0do

Darth Sadistic
Originally posted by DarthBanevv
You have got to be kidding me. Star Wars score has always and will always be best. And is that even a category?

Yes, score is a category, and the SW score was great as well. However, a good portion of it was from previous films and I think that's why it wasn't nominated. Williams was nominated for Best Score for his work on at least one other film though.

DarthBanevv
Originally posted by Darth Sadistic
Yes, score is a category, and the SW score was great as well. However, a good portion of it was from previous films and I think that's why it wasn't nominated. Williams was nominated for Best Score for his work on at least one other film though. They only had like one from TPM(Duel of fates), one (Across the stars) from AOTC which we only hear for a few times in the middle of two new musical pieces (Padme's ruminations) and (Anakins dream). One from ESB, during (Anakin vs. Obi-Wan). And one from ANH (The binary sunset). The rest was all new. What should have been nominated was Battle of the heroes. What won anyways?

sithsaber408
Originally posted by DarthBanevv
They only had like one from TPM(Duel of fates), one (Across the stars) from AOTC which we only hear for a few times in the middle of two new musical pieces (Padme's ruminations) and (Anakins dream). One from ESB, during (Anakin vs. Obi-Wan). And one from ANH (The binary sunset). The rest was all new. What should have been nominated was Battle of the heroes. What won anyways?

Indeed.

Look at the ROTS soundtrack CD.

Track 1-all new

Track 2- all new (has love theme from EP2, but played with just violins)

Track 3- Battle of the Heroes (WTFpwns)

Track 4- all new

Track 5- all new

Track 6-all new (crazy Tibetan monk chanting)

Track 8-all new (haunting music of anakins choice in the council chambers. Reminded me of the Holocaust or something.)

Track 10-all new

Etc......


I think that the gay cowboys won.

DarthBanevv
Lol thank you sithsaber mostly all of it is new, as I said before. And that's proof that the adademy is biased. Seriously nobody watched Brokeback mountain and yet is nominated for best score, WTF!? What the f**k?

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
Quality. By friggin miles.

I much prefer the smaller battle on Hoth and the ground battle on Endor to the Geonosian battle... because it's more real. I love the OT because it immerses me in the Star Wars world... it transports me to another place. It's hard for the PT to do that with 90% of the screen screaming at me "LOOK I'M MADE OF PIXELS!"

Hey DeVi| D0do. How's it goin...

First I wanna say tnx for being such a cool cat way back when Ep.III came out...you're solid.

As for my retort...I totally know where you're coming from, but think of these three points...

1). If Lucas didn't use quanity over quality and didn't make sure he had a green card in delivering his vision onto the big screen, Eps I, II, and III would have been toooootally different...and by this I mean who knows HOW MUCH of the cool stuff we saw in those films (could be anything...podracers, curuscant speeder chase, an Acklay) wouldn't be in there because he would be spending time on fewer things making them look really good. I'd rather have the whole package, than a small (better looking) package (can't have both 'cause of budget and time).

2). As for something like the Geonosian battle, if you're a kid (like we were during OT) and you're watching that for the first time, I can bet you'd be transported....and I think we forget that sometimes.

3). How will we ever get to a point where CG effects are consistnely believable if we don't take steps to work towards it? Some of the CG effects in Ep. III are pretty much the bomb. If they didn't make all those efforts "hit and miss" in Eps I and II, how would they get to (ex: the tower being taken out during the Federation Cruiser crash landing) being so kick ass now?

Just some thoughts.

Alliance
Heres my thouhgt on the battles... things like Yavin, Hoth, and Endor are completely developed because they were so small AND MORE IMPORTANTLY...they main characters were heavily involved in them. In the prequels, main characters are never in the battles, maybe save Anakin and JarJar in Naboo, but they still weren't the alphs characters. This make the battels seem weak...they're just going on. The Clone wars are suposed to be a BACKDROP to the event of the prequel trilogy (unfortunately as the clones are perhaps the coolest charaters in SW ant yes they could kick imp a$$...and their armor is better). THing like Geonosis are large scale battles typical of the clone wars, not little imperial assults (thing AMerican Civil War versus guerilla warfare in C.America in the 80's). Therefore that batle are not as well developed and since they all lack major characters, there is even less reason to develop them. All the prequel battles lacked STRATEGY...which is something that the OT clearly had in each battle. THis makes it seem fake. YOu start to see this in the Endor Space battle too.

So I let my brain fill in the gaps.

Remeber....they were two very different wars!

Don't underestiamate the power of the pixel!. THe OT was about
grunge industrial imperialism. The PT is about illusionary neo-romanticsm. The special effects fit each trilogy perfectly. Neither should be slammed!

DarthBanevv
Alliance, in the space battle for ROTS it ONLY focused on Obi-Wan and Anakin. You see Oddball's cockpit once or twice. But I liked YAvin's battle better where we saw the cockpits of Wedge Antilles, Porkins, Biggs and Luke. Geonosis was largely centered around Anakin and Obi-Wan, right up until they get into the gunship. Naboo had many scenes with Jar jar. Hoth was only focused on Luke, and a few cockpit shots of the other pilots. Endor was focused on Han, Leia, Chewie, Wedge, Lando and Ewoks who get a heck of a lot of screen time. As I said before about Yavin, Luke was not really the one being focused on until the trech run.

Alliance
I somewhat agree with you...

Kenobi and Anakin did almos zero fighting in the Battle fo Coruscant. They spend moset of their time flying towards the Invisible Hand a mumbling stilted dialogue. They barely shoot anything. Once they're on the IH, then its different, but its hardly a military battle. They showed complete lack of strategy. I'd dubb it the skirmish on the hand. It's hardly epic like the conflicts titled BATTLE OF <insert planet name>

Same in Geonosis. Kenobi and Anakin don't fight at all...they just ride in the gunship. You are focusing on the charater's presence, not the combat. In Hoth and Endor, the main characters actually fire blasters. They are engaged in combat, not witnessing it.

However, you do bring up a good point about Yavin. Much of the battle is not focused on Luke <mmm...trench run> I'll have to think about this. Your Naboo also might work, because there is large scale coordination arranged by Amidala and Jinn

But still in general the OT has smaller, yet more developed battles centered around protagonist combat and direct military stategy revelaed though the main character involvement.

In the PT, the battles are larger, yet less developed and less protagonist based, serving more as a backdrop for events. Less strategy is revealed and chatacters are not as involved as soldiers.

DarthBanevv
I agree. Naboo was the most organized attack of the PT. In the arena on Geonosis it was really focused on Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, Mace and Jango. So I thought it was fine. Because soon after was the lightsaber duel, between Dooku, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Yoda. In ROTS it was such a massive space battle but it only focused on Anakin and Obi-Wan, who don't do much shooting. It was really dissapointing, but then right after were two fight scenes. I thought it made up for it, but I still would have rather had it a three hour movie and had a real battle.

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