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All at the height of their power.

I'm not gonna pretend to be a Naga Sadow expert, but isn't DN Luke alone a match for him? And surely no one, except perhaps Nihilus, could withstand these three in their primes.

That is the general consensus but we don't really have much evidence. As of now Sadow pwns everybody except ragnos

And Simus. . . and Kressh, who'd give him a hell of a fight.

This is a good fight.

I don't understand why people believe Simus to be powerful.

He got pwned by Sadow with a blaster. Now I know he was still a head at that time, but we have no idea whether as a full fledged sith lord he was all that strong. There has been no proof. Just because he predated Ragnos, he never insipired fear to the same degree as Ragnos.

Simus was surprised that Sadow, his apprentice, would SHOOT him in the face, considering that the ancient Sith didn't use guns. And considering that he was DLotS before Ragnos and afterwards survived as a mere head and commanded respect for over a 100 years in the Sith Empire, he must have been DAMN powerful.

It could have been due to respect of wisdom, that they still kept him around.

Also, the fact that he was able to preserve himself as a head is not that impressive given the context of star wars. Sion was basically a corpse with everything fractured and all his nerves fried. He was able to perserve himself, but I wouldn't put him on the list of top four.

Originally posted by zephiel7
It could have been due to respect of wisdom, that they still kept him around.

Also, the fact that he was able to preserve himself as a head is not that impressive given the context of star wars. Sion was basically a corpse with everything fractured and all his nerves fried. He was able to perserve himself, but I wouldn't put him on the list of top four.

You don't know anything outside of KotOR, do you?

Anyways, put his feats into perspective:

- Simus was an ancient sith. He came from a society where "rule of strongest" was the only real rule.

- Simus was the former top dog. He likely had -very- many enemies. Yet he lived.

- Not only did he survive as a mere head, he thrived and sat (Figuratively) on the sith council.

Sion, meanwhile, gained the measely power he had from ancient sith teachings.

None of these former enemies included any one as strong as Sadow or Kresh.

Sorry Wesker, but simply saying that they respected him to give him position on the sith council is not going to cut it as proof. The only thing he actually showed was how easily gunned down he was.

Ragnos on the other hand inspired fear from Sadow and Kressh, two formidable Sith Lords.

Uh huh. Right. By your logic, Sidious must be a pussy, because one can just pick him up and chuck him over a railing.

Sidious was shown destroying a fleet with his force storm. Simus was known for.... staying in a glass casing.

The brain dude that Odan served warrants respect and can survive as a mere brain. Dude, he must be one tough mofo.

I have to agree with Wesker on this one. It is obvious Simus was very powerful, most likely even more powerful than Sadow since he trained him, and was 2nd only to Ragnos in power..

Vodo trained Kun, but Kun ended up superiour. How can you give Simus position second to Ragnos when we have seen no clear demonstration of his abilities? Sadow is most likely stronger than Simus. Heck maybe even Kressh or Freedon are stronger.

That may be so but we know Simus had the confidence and obvious power to challenge Ragnos while Sadow did not. And you do have to take into account that Simus was the DLOTS before Ragnos, as a testament of his power.

Originally posted by tdtd
That may be so but we know Simus had the confidence and obvious power to challenge Ragnos while Sadow did not. And you do have to take into account that Simus was the DLOTS before Ragnos, as a testament of his power.

After what Ragnos reduced Simus into, I doubt Sadow OR Kressh would have the courage to instigate a fight. The fact that Simus obtained position as DLOTS is not bad, but that still does not place him above Sadow or possibly Kressh.

Simus survived as a head, Sadow placed himself in suspended animation then got killed.. I'd say Simus has more sith knowledge.

But Sion was also able to sustain himself despite the fact that he SHOULD be dead. I don't think that necessarily means Sion has more knowledge than Sadow. I really can't put a definite finger on Simus' power, but I dont think he has anything over Sadow.

possibly but very unlikely

Simus was also noted for being a very good sith magician and was Sadow's master. I doubt Sadow truly exceeded Simus for sheer knowledge, though power is debateable.

No, Simus was known for being "the most powerful Sith Magician of his era."

Considerng that era encompasses the golden age and includes a superheavyweight like Naga Sadow, that's pretty impressive. He certainly commanded enough respect to still be a Sith Lord even after he gets decapitated by Marka Ragnos.

You arguing "well he could have been known for wisdom" or "zOMG he doesn't have to be powerful" is simply making excuses and changing direction. Simus had respect from a society that gave out respect based on power. He was the "most powerful" Sith Magician.

I couldn't have said it better.. No really I couldn't have, thanks illustrious.

Yeah, Simus was really strong.

For the fight? I don't know. Jacen's power as of DN is really an unknown as we've never seen the extent of his abilities. We saw him protecting him and another Jedi(I think it was Tahiri) from Chiss gunship lasers by creating a bubble like shield in the force rather then just absorbing it through his hand. Pretty impressive if you ask me. Jacen also has shown himself to be very adept at projecting images into people's minds, a trick he learned from the Fallanasi ( spelling?). It could be helpful in a fight as his teacher was able to create several duplicates of herself at the same time and make each of them look completly real even to Jacen who presumably had been trained in defenses against it over the last several months that he had been training with her. Jacen isn't as good as that lady was, but he might be able to create a duplicate of himself that would look very real to an enemy during a fight. Whether or not it would work on Sadow I can't say. You might say that Sadow created millions of troops during that one battle, but he had to meditate to do it. Jacen could do it without pausing.

Kyp has really powerful force powers, but I don't think he is all to great with a saber for how strong his force powers are. He's about as good as NJO Luke in force powers. I can see Kyp staying back and hitting Sadow with force powers while Luke and Jacen attack Sadow with sabers.

I think everyone knows about how good Luke is, but if anyone doesn't just ask for info on him. Anyway, I think Luke with Jacen's help could definately keep Sadow busy in saber vs. sword combat. With Kyp hitting Sadow with force attacks.

The Jedi have a very good chance.

Possibly possibly, but then again Sadow could probably blast them all with his amulet.

Doubtful. Luke, Kyp, and Jacen could more then likely turn the blast back at him. Luke then blast him with lightning.

true also