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This is probably covered, but here's my question.


He's definitely not a master in the OT, but when sitting next to Yoda in ROTJ, Yoda says:
"No more training do you require."
Luke: "Then I am a Jedi"
Yoda, chuckles, coughs, then turns to Luke: "Not yet. One thing remains..."

and of course you know how the rest of it goes.
Now taking into consideration, at this point of his life, would we consider Luke a Padawan because he has to face this last trial, or is he established as a Knight but needs to make it official by going 'Postal' on his dad in the throne room?

"No more training do you require" in order to become a Padawan. And hell, if Luke is OT Yoda's version of a Padawan, then... Christ...

Luke sucked compared to PT Padawans.

I don't think he is a jedi yet. He either has to just prove his bravery and go to Vader as Yoda described, or he has to defeat his father, which would be more of a test. Either way, I don't think he says that he is a Jedi until after he refuses to kill his father, so it might be that he had to beat him, but I am going to go with Yoda on this one and say that he just had to confront him again because Luke never expected to win... "You're wrong. Soon I'll be dead, and you with me..." A Jedi's life is sacrifice, so it would be a good way to become a Jedi by keeping the Emperor preoccupied until the Death Star was destroyed

Just my thoughts.

Isn't part of the trials to become a Knight facing down the dark side? I could be wrong, but if I'm right then Luke was still a Padawan and became a Knight only after he defeated Vader just before being flash-fried.

Absolutely. Luke did not become a Jedi Knight until the end of ROTJ.

Luke may have been a knight, but I bet the younglings in the PT era would have been able to pwn him...

Luke wasn't a Jedi Knight until Vader and the Emperor died. Yoda knew that Luke required no more.

Luke was nothing more than a force-sensitive minuteman with a lightsaber.

What about this:

"Your skills are complete." - Darth Vader

I realize that Vader had no say in Lukes Jedi ranking, but that must mean something as far as Luke's skills go. Vader wouldn't just say something like that for fun.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
What about this:

"Your skills are complete." - Darth Vader

I realize that Vader had no say in Lukes Jedi ranking, but that must mean something as far as Luke's skills go. Vader wouldn't just say something like that for fun.

He was saying that as a comment on Luke's lightsaber (because he had built it him self) so he figured that his traning was complete. Vader knew shit about Luke's skills and his traning.

^ yeah, i somewhat agree...

he definitely needs more training but i bet he could acquire more knowledge through experience...

Yeah
When Luke asked Yoda: "So, am I a Jedi?" Yoda said that he had to confront Vader, then he would be a Jedi

Funny though, that Luke has the balls to refer to himself as "Jedi Knight and friend of Captian Solo."

Also remember Chewie telling Han that Luke is a Knight, and Han going. " A Jedi Knight! I'm out of it for a little while and everbody gets delusions of graduer."


I agree with all the above posts, he was a padawan who had to take "the trials", which for him, was to face Vader.


Funny that the little piss-ant tells non Jedi folk that he's a Knight though.

The term "Jedi Knight" is taken very lightly. They call pretty much every Jedi a Jedi Knight.

He becomes a Jedi Knight at the end of RotJ.

Albeit a weak one. His promotion seems to come more from the fact that he had the sheer guts (or idiocy) to toss his lightsabre down in front of the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Or it could be because he turned down evil and refused to give in to the Dark Side.

Im betting on the latter. I think he threw the saber down just so he couldnt give in to rage and slay the Emperor. Although if he knew sidious had lightning, i think he might have kept it for defense. Unless, he somehow knew that during his torture, that dear old dad would save him. Being as in the prequels, the Jedi couldnt see the future due to the darkside, maybe in the OT the Sith (well palps) couldnt see the future due to the lightside...who knows?

Luke was making a point. It wouldn't look very real if Luke was bat swinging combat mode, saying he wouldn't kill the emperor. When he threw down his sabre he was saying "I'm done, I've whooped my fathers sorry ass, and I'm not gonna waste my time on you."

Still though, killing the Emperor, Dark Lord of the Sith, Manipulator of the Republic, Greatest Tyrant the galaxy's ever known, would be a worthy cause for a Jedi. I doubt Yoda or Obi would disagree: "Destroy the Sith we must Obi-Wan."

Luke's just f*cked in the head.

Luke resisted temptation and held true to the light side of the Force, which was his final "test" so to speak.

I've always thought Luke in Ep V was about equal to Anakin in Ep II. :/

Yes. Killing the Emperor would have been good and well.


But the question is *why*. Why would Luke have killed him? Because of hate? Because of fear? Because of revenge. These motivations lead to the darkside. Jedi does things because it needs to be done. No fear, no anger, no hate, no sorrow.

QuiGon: "I shall do what I must, Obi1"

Originally posted by Delta 62
I've always thought Luke in Ep V was about equal to Anakin in Ep II. :/

Well, they both did get limbs cut off by an older, more powerfull Sith, but I wouldn't think Luke in ESB capable of the things Anakin was able to do in the Droid factory/arena scenes.

Oh Lord no.

Luke was about as good as Obiwan after getting cut by Dooku....

But then ealry in ROTJ, Luke is bragging about his rank...

Han: "A Jedi Knight? I'm out of it for a while...."

I think Luke is a Jedi Knight. But not a Jedi Master.

ESB or ROTJ are not even on par with TPM Obi-Wan.

Yeah, he's more of a bastardised Knight...

Originally posted by Tangible God
ESB or ROTJ are not even on par with TPM Obi-Wan.

Right, which makes me think that he's not on par with AOTC anakin, either.

Originally posted by Traya
Yeah, he's more of a bastardised Knight...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Funny though, that Luke has the balls to refer to himself as "Jedi Knight and friend of Captian Solo."

Also remember Chewie telling Han that Luke is a Knight, and Han going. " A Jedi Knight! I'm out of it for a little while and everbody gets delusions of graduer."


I agree with all the above posts, he was a padawan who had to take "the trials", which for him, was to face Vader.


Funny that the little piss-ant tells non Jedi folk that he's a Knight though. How dare he call himself a friend of captain solo.

dots

Jedi pecking order was a moot point by the end of ESB - Yoda had one foot in the grave, the rest of the Jedi were gone and Ben had limited interaction with the living.

So here is Luke; recently off the surface of a backwater dustball where he's been raised by an aunt & uncle (freshly barbequed by Imps as seen by Luke himself). Runs the DS gauntlet (including trash compactor). Saves princess and blows up DS using new found Force powers (this was pretty much the only pleasant afternoon he had).

From there he ends in Hoth's deep freeze, gets whacked by the abominable snowman and does the bacta backstroke in a diaper.

Off to Dagobah for his date with Yoda (don't forget the bad meal) and tries to cram (lets say 17 years) of Jedi training into 20 minutes. Fights an imaginary Vader, then off to Bespin to fight the real Vader, gets his hand cut off and finds out Vader is his father.

Ah, hell you know the rest - why am I freakin' typing all this....

Cut to the chase - if you look at Luke's experiences as tiny pieces of time, rather than a big picture, THEN add them up, its easier to see the hell the guy has gone through. Luke did the best he could in ROTJ - like Yoda says, always in motion in the future. The whole Luke-Vader-Emporer scenario could have played out in so many different ways, Luke had to handle the situation moment by moment.

To call him a Jedi Knight by the end of ROTJ I agree with. There was no Jedi Council, no Jedi Code to adhere to. It was what had to be at that point in time.