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Who'd win?

ROTS Sidious was at his peak in both force abilities and saber combat. I'm not sure if ROTJ Sidious spent some of his 20 years studying ancient sith magic on Korriban, or if this was the resurrected emperor, but there is no proof that ROTJ Sidious improved his knowledge of the dark side, not to mention he didn't use a lightsaber since being tooled by Yoda.

Originally posted by tdtd
ROTS Sidious was at his peak in both force abilities and saber combat. I'm not sure if ROTJ Sidious spent some of his 20 years studying ancient sith magic on Korriban, or if this was the resurrected emperor, but there is no proof that ROTJ Sidious improved his knowledge of the dark side, not to mention he didn't use a lightsaber since being tooled by Yoda.

lol Tooled? Well. I don't think Yoda won that fight to tell you the truth. Even during the aftermath of the battle between him and Sidious, Yoda claimed "Into exile I must go. Failed I have." Now he said this right after the fight. And Sidious was fine laughing his ass off the whole time during the match. Afterwards, Sidious was on his feet while Yoda was crawling away hidden. But as far as ROTJ Sidious goes, I think he'd come out the winner, defeating ROTS Sidious. He had to have extensively practice the ways of the Sith. With especially knowing about Vader and how powerful he may've become. It would've been to great a risk to him and his Empire for him not to study only to increase his knowledge exponentially. I'm sure he visited Korriban during his reign to meditate and gain more in depth knowledge of the power of the Darkside.

Of course. The Emperor of the whole damn galaxy found the time to go meditate on some far off planet. . .

ROTJ Sidious should be stronger, having been able to study from the Jedi Holocrons extracted from the Jedi Temple at Knightfall.

But he might be out of shape with a saber.

ROTJ Sidious was 20 years older, 20 years weaker, 20 years more senile.

Originally posted by Faunus
Of course. The Emperor of the whole damn galaxy found the time to go meditate on some far off planet. . .

Meh, he left alot to the Moffs and Vader. I'm sure he had some time to meditate.

Originally posted by tdtd
ROTS Sidious was at his peak in both force abilities and saber combat. I'm not sure if ROTJ Sidious spent some of his 20 years studying ancient sith magic on Korriban, or if this was the resurrected emperor, but there is no proof that ROTJ Sidious improved his knowledge of the dark side, not to mention he didn't use a lightsaber since being tooled by Yoda.


The fight was actually a stalemate but it's been proven and shown that Yoda had the upper hand in the lightsaber duel, and at the end of the fight you see him getting angry while Sidious has the "Oh shit i'm screwed" look. This is all in the Episode III DVD. Lucas wanted to show people that Yoda won the fight but lost due to circumstances, yet he won in the end because he lived to train Luke. Also I think you guys should read the Episode III novel, the fight in particular.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
ROTJ Sidious was 20 years older, 20 years weaker, 20 years more senile.

And don't forget 20 years more knowledgeable, 20 years of concentrated Darkside power and 20 years more experience.

And 20 years weaker? Didn't he keep clones? I even heard that ROTJ Sidious was a clone. And as for senile. I thought he was sharper, more tactical and manipulative than his ROTS self.

ROTJ Sidious being a clone is speculation. It's also speculation that Sidious learned new darkside power in that 20 years. We know he didn't use a lightsaber again after Yoda, so I would still give the fight to ROTS Sidious.

This is just like people saying "z0mg, ben trained lots when he was in exile!". Again, neither Sidious nor Ben would have any reason whatsoever to train in between RotS and ANH.

Sidious was the Emperor of the whole freaking galaxy. He had billions of StormTroopers at his disposal, the DeathStar, a bunch of StarDestroyers, attack mechanisms, and most of all Vader. Why would he train with all that security? It'd be a waste of his time.

Originally posted by Arker
This is just like people saying "z0mg, ben trained lots when he was in exile!". Again, neither Sidious nor Ben would have any reason whatsoever to train in between RotS and ANH.

Sidious was the Emperor of the whole freaking galaxy. He had billions of StormTroopers at his disposal, the DeathStar, a bunch of StarDestroyers, attack mechanisms, and most of all Vader. Why would he train with all that security? It'd be a waste of his time.

Sidious had every reason to be Darkside devoted during his reign. he had Vader to worry about. He had Luke and the rebellion to worry about. His expanding galaxy to worry about. Traitors in the Empire and in his inner circles to worry about. He needed to be in tune with all that and what better way that with the assistance of the Darkside of the Force to give him the visions and the power he needed to rule the Galaxy. Surely he didn't renounce his Sith heritage. If he did, he wouldn't of been strong enough to use Force Lightning as effectively as he did in ROTJ. You'd need to profoundly be apart of the Darkside like nothing else to use Force lightning.

I still say ROTJ Sidious takes it.

He's absolutely right, Sidious had every reason to gain more dark side knowledge. He was also fascinated and engorged by the dark side so anything new he could study, he would. However there is more evidence showing ROTS Sidious was at his peak, than ROTJ having more knowledge and the ability to defeat his younger self.

I think ROTS Sidious wins. Lets look at it.
1. A second of ROTS Sidious's lightning knocks Yoda on the ground for around 10 seconds. About seven seconds of ROTJ Sidious's lightning got poured into Vader, a machine who's far more vulnerable to lightning than Yoda, and he kept walking, while holding Sidious over his head.

2. ROTS Sidious leaped out, killed Agen and Saesee in one second and Kit in another 5. If ROTJ Sidious were that strong Vader wouldn't have been able to get him anywhere near that reactor core shaft.

Well like I said, ROTJ Sidious had no reason to use a lightsaber ever again, so his skills with it would suck, and of course he got weaker and older over time so his force lightning was weaker.

ROTJ Sidious being a clone is not speculation; while Palpatine said as such in DE, a spokesperson from Lucasfilm or George himself, can't remember, intervened and said that Palpatine was merely bluffing in an attempt to make Luke realize that it is hopeless.

Ahhhh well there we go, thanks for the info Rexy

That's what I said. He wouldn't need to train with lightsaber combat at all. Or with the Force. His Empire was loyal to him. Luke was only a threat for a few years. Do you think studying the Dark Forces in between ESB and RotJ would get him very far? No. Do you think the Rebellion was a big enough problem that he'd need to train? No. He knew that he wouldn't make much of a difference fighting in the war because all he needed to do was command his enormous legion to do it for him.

Vader might've been a threat, but a blast of Sith Lightning and kablam. Sidious also knew that he was getting old and that his apprentice was withered away. That's why he needed Luke; so he could possibly become something that Anakin could've if he hadn't been stripped of most of his power. Even if Luke wouldn't have became everything Anakin would've became, it'd still be better than Darth Vader. Moving back on subject, Sidious had an Empire at his disposal. No single person was a threat to him, unless they were face to face.

Anyways, this fight has the major variable: Sidious did or did not train with his saber in between. But RotS Sidious would simply use the Force before any saber combat gets involved and would probably overpower his older self.

Originally posted by Arker
That's what I said. He wouldn't need to train with lightsaber combat at all. Or with the Force. His Empire was loyal to him. Luke was only a threat for a few years. Do you think studying the Dark Forces in between ESB and RotJ would get him very far? No. Do you think the Rebellion was a big enough problem that he'd need to train? No. He knew that he wouldn't make much of a difference fighting in the war because all he needed to do was command his enormous legion to do it for him.

Vader might've been a threat, but a blast of Sith Lightning and kablam. Sidious also knew that he was getting old and that his apprentice was withered away. That's why he needed Luke; so he could possibly become something that Anakin could've if he hadn't been stripped of most of his power. Even if Luke wouldn't have became everything Anakin would've became, it'd still be better than Darth Vader. Moving back on subject, Sidious had an Empire at his disposal. No single person was a threat to him, unless they were face to face.

Anyways, this fight has the major variable: Sidious did or did not train with his saber in between. But RotS Sidious would simply use the Force before any saber combat gets involved and would probably overpower his older self.

Are you sure his empire was loyal to him? His most trusted liege, Lord Vader wanted to murder him, as Sith tradition goes. The apprentice eventually tries to murder his Master. Proof in ESB when Vader tells Luke about collaborating and destroying the Sidious and taking over the Galaxy. I even heard Sidious eavesdropped in on this conversation.

Luke was only a threat for a few years? Luke was the Ultimate threat to Emperor Palpatine and the Galactic Empire. Luke was the son of the chosen one. I'm sure Emperor Sidious knew about Luke's place in the prophesy well before Luke was born. So Luke was a threat for way more than a few years.

And Palpatine knew the rebellion was a threat. The Galactic Civil War has been going on for 20 years! Wouldn't you think someone was a problem or some sort of threat on some sort of level if after 20 yrs. you weren't able to crush them? And that's ontop of the fact the the Rebellion actually defeated the Empire.

Sidious had an Empire at his disposal yet it took a 19yr old kid defeat him and millions of Imperials. Well Vader did it but but with his son's help.

Vader was a sick threat to Palpatine. It's tradition for apprentices to go against their Masters. Palpatine had to make sure Vader wasn't up to par enough to actually attempt anything against Sidious. Therein lied the reason for Sidious' continual draining as Sith while being a galactic Emperor.

What about pre-Clone Wars Senator Palpatine? Tell me all the people he lightsabered with? Not even 10 people from what we know. The Force guides a lightsaber duelist. And 20 yrs of Darkside experience would've granted him uber Darkside abilities with sick automatic saber-skills far superior to what ROTS Palpatine wielded.

You're wrong, the force is only one aspect of lightsaber combat. You actually have to train and improve your technique. Sidious didn't touch a lightsaber for 20 years because he had no need to, so there is nothing to indicate that he would be a match for his younger self.

We don't have any proof Sidious trained in the 13 years between TPM and ROTS. He would have his hands full with being a politician. He was still pretty damn good in his first fight in a long time, being able to destroy 3 of the best duelists in the order in 10 seconds.

I would hardly call the 3 he killed anywhere near the best. He got bested by the best in Mace Windu and Yoda..

Originally posted by tdtd
You're wrong, the force is only one aspect of lightsaber combat. You actually have to train and improve your technique. Sidious didn't touch a lightsaber for 20 years because he had no need to, so there is nothing to indicate that he would be a match for his younger self.

Nope, you're wrong. You're merely speculating. Unless you offer proof that Palpatine never again used a lightsaber ever again after Yoda, then you're wrong. That you've never seen or heard of the Emperor using a saber again after Ep. III doesn't mean he never used it at all again.

How do you know that he didn't personally take matters into his own hands during the Galactic Civil War. We both don't know. The ROTS Palpatine got his arse handed to him by Windu yet ROTJ Palpatine was seconds away from murdering the future leader of the New Jedi Order who was on many accounts more powerful than Yoda and would destroy Windu.

ROTJ Sidious lords over ROTS Palpatine.

Bro, read the novels in between episode 3 and 4. Vader did all of Palpatine's dirty work. Palpatine was defeating Luke, someone who has never even used the force and has had less than 2 years of training, by using force lightning. And in the novel it said Luke deflected it for a minute which is unheard of. Also the mere fact that palpatine walks around with no lightsaber in all the movies says something.. He doesn't use one.

I would hardly call the 3 he killed anywhere near the best. He got bested by the best in Mace Windu and Yoda..


They were three of the best. Kit Fisto was equal to Obi-Wan in Cestus Deception, and the others were Council members with excellent reputations.

Mace was a saber prodigy, and Yoda was practicing the saber for over 800 years. And then there's the possibility that Sids faked the fight...

Also the mere fact that palpatine walks around with no lightsaber in all the movies says something.. He doesn't use one.

He might have one under his robes... you don't know he doesn't practise with one.

No Gamblor, Sidious faking the fight was pure speculation, actually an illogical myth. If you read the novel you will see that Palpatine was getting his ass handed to hm, as he underestimated Windu.

We're talking about logic here, we never see him have one in the trilogies. Does that mean he doesn't? No. But it's a logical assumption because he was unmatched and unrivaled for 20 years, so he had no need for a lightsaber.

Originally posted by tdtd
Bro, read the novels in between episode 3 and 4. Vader did all of Palpatine's dirty work. Palpatine was defeating Luke, someone who has never even used the force and has had less than 2 years of training, by using force lightning. And in the novel it said Luke deflected it for a minute which is unheard of. Also the mere fact that palpatine walks around with no lightsaber in all the movies says something.. He doesn't use one.

Read what novels in between ep. 3 and 4? The only novel between ep's 3 and 4 that I know of and finished was "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader", which took place a few months after Ep. 3 during the 1st phases of the Jedi Purge and The Fall of Kashykk, a.k.a. the Wookie homeworld and the first planet to succumb to the Empire.

I'd like to know of these novel(s) that you speak of, that took place during that era. A link would be nice too.

I think there was 1 other one. One of them was talking about how Vader did all of Palpatine's dirty work while Palpatine sat back and watched. You can't say just because he didn't use a lightsaber doesn't mean he wasn't good. He had absolutely no reason to use one at any point after Yoda, because the destruction of the Jedi was complete. His only threat was Luke and Vader, and he successfully pitted them against each other.

No Gamblor, Sidious faking the fight was pure speculation, actually an illogical myth. If you read the novel you will see that Palpatine was getting his ass handed to hm, as he underestimated Windu.

According to the novel, Anakin wtfpwned Dooku, Sidious is the most powerful Sith who ever lived and Kit Fisto's head became an office ornament.

Originally posted by tdtd
I think there was 1 other one. One of them was talking about how Vader did all of Palpatine's dirty work while Palpatine sat back and watched. You can't say just because he didn't use a lightsaber doesn't mean he wasn't good. He had absolutely no reason to use one at any point after Yoda, because the destruction of the Jedi was complete. His only threat was Luke and Vader, and he successfully pitted them against each other.

Yea. Sounds like "Dark Lord". It's the only novel that takes place after Ep3, dude. There isn't more that one, as you say.

And since we're discussing EU, there's this awesome game i'm playing called "Star Wars: Empire @ War", I recommend it.

But in one stage you get to play as Empire Palpatine. You land on planet Bothawi, the Bothan homeworld on a mission to destroy all resistance in an encampment area populated by bothan spies that have interfered with imperial business on every level. Using Palaptine, and two red guards that assisted me who were useless, I could've done it without them, you uber lord over all enemies in the game using Palps With A Lightsaber. Now we're talking post-ep III, post Yoda battle, pre-A New Hope Palpatine lightsaber action mojo, dude. You want proof, get the game and see.

Originally posted by Gamblor
No Gamblor, Sidious faking the fight was pure speculation, actually an illogical myth. If you read the novel you will see that Palpatine was getting his ass handed to hm, as he underestimated Windu.

According to the novel, Anakin wtfpwned Dooku, Sidious is the most powerful Sith who ever lived and Kit Fisto's head became an office ornament.


You obviously didn't read the novels then because
1. Dooku toyed with Anakin too long and got his ass kicked as a result of his arrogance.
2. Palpatine never faked anything with Windu, his arrogance blinded him and he was tooled.
3. Palpatine in terms of achievements is the GREATEST sith, but he was nowhere near the most powerful. Not even close.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Yea. Sounds like "Dark Lord". It's the only novel that takes place after Ep3, dude. There isn't more that one, as you say.

And since we're discussing EU, there's this awesome game i'm playing called "Star Wars: Empire @ War", I recommend it.

But in one stage you get to play as Empire Palpatine. You land on planet Bothawi, the Bothan homeworld on a mission to destroy all resistance in an encampment area populated by bothan spies that have interfered with imperial business on every level. Using Palaptine, and two red guards that assisted me who were useless, I could've done it without them, you uber lord over all enemies in the game using Palps With A Lightsaber. Now we're talking post-ep III, post Yoda battle, pre-A New Hope Palpatine lightsaber action mojo, dude. You want proof, get the game and see.


I hope you know video games are as far from canon as possible

Originally posted by tdtd
I hope you know video games are as far from canon as possible

I know. But we are in an EU forum, aren't we?

You obviously didn't read the novels then because
1. Dooku toyed with Anakin too long and got his ass kicked as a result of his arrogance.
2. Palpatine never faked anything with Windu, his arrogance blinded him and he was tooled.
3. Palpatine in terms of achievements is the GREATEST sith, but he was nowhere near the most powerful. Not even close.

What the hell are you even talking about? I was bringing up points to prove that the novel is quite bull**** seeing as how it contradicts a few things in the movies. It's one man's interpretation of the movie. That is it.

1. He was toying with him at the beginning, but at the end he was going ALL OUT according to the novel, and lost anyways.
2. Yes, "according to the novel" Windu won.
3. Perhaps, I think i'll flip through it tonight to verify.

Well, a "verses forum" where bringin in EU characters is acceptable. And because of that, to me, it's an EU Forum as well.

EU is fine as long as it's canon bro. I still don't know what your point is Gamblor, maybe because i'm not willing to scroll up.. But my point is Sidious got tooled by Windu, it is pure myth that he was faking it.

Meh, I said it was a possibility.

Anything is possible but it is stated that he wasn't faking and he was owned. The novels are as canon as the movies, and the movies are the most canon of anything.

I was watching the episode III dvd, and i paused it just before mace was gonna kill palpy, palpatine raises his hands and draws them back....looked like force lightning was getting ready come into play again. This makes me tend to think that palpatine was just using mace to fully convert anakin, or he was just scared and didnt know what else to do to save himself.

No no we're talking about the saber fight. Of course when Anakin came in Palpatine was playing the victim. It is clear that Mace was nowhere near Palpatine in force powers, Palpatine could have skull****ed him. But in the saber fight Palpatine got owned.

Originally posted by tdtd
No no we're talking about the saber fight. Of course when Anakin came in Palpatine was playing the victim. It is clear that Mace was nowhere near Palpatine in force powers, Palpatine could have skull****ed him. But in the saber fight Palpatine got owned.

Why do I see illogic in someone having more inferior lightsaber skills than an opponent who is more superior at lightsaber fighting but has inferior Force wielding skills than you do? Doesn't the Force guide lightsaber duelist by almost seemingly controlling the wielders actions Palpatine was a superior Force user over Windu yet Windu was a better duelists. It doesn't somehow fit.

I think it makes more sense that there was indeed a chance that Palpatine may have faked his defeat in order to bait Anakin? He did after all ultimately defeat Windu after he cut down 3 High Counsel members in a matter of seconds. Noticed how he fell just before Anakin arrived as if he sense Anakin's arrival. As if it was planned. Noticed how Palpatine was slyly looking at Anakin while he was begging for his life to be spared. That was a look of knowing what the hell he was doing. That sneaky look.

That's all a wonderful theory but Palpatine was beaten, as it was stated. Call it the will of the force that Anakin arrived just in time. Yes the force guides lightsaber combat but only so much. That's like saying you're a natural athlete, but without practice you'll never be as good as someone who practices daily. Windu was on par with Yoda in lightsaber combat, as they both effectively disarmed Sidious. Sidious however had more force knowledge than Windu, especially Dark side knowledge which doesn't really help with lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by tdtd
Anything is possible but it is stated that he wasn't faking and he was owned. The novels are as canon as the movies, and the movies are the most canon of anything.
Dude, the movies are G canon, and the novelization is C canon. Movies = more canon.

Err you know what I meant. The point remains that Sidious wasn't faking, he really got owned.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Why do I see illogic in someone having more inferior lightsaber skills than an opponent who is more superior at lightsaber fighting but has inferior Force wielding skills than you do? Doesn't the Force guide lightsaber duelist by almost seemingly controlling the wielders actions Palpatine was a superior Force user over Windu yet Windu was a better duelists. It doesn't somehow fit.

I think it makes more sense that there was indeed a chance that Palpatine may have faked his defeat in order to bait Anakin? He did after all ultimately defeat Windu after he cut down 3 High Counsel members in a matter of seconds. Noticed how he fell just before Anakin arrived as if he sense Anakin's arrival. As if it was planned. Noticed how Palpatine was slyly looking at Anakin while he was begging for his life to be spared. That was a look of knowing what the hell he was doing. That sneaky look.

Note that Ulic Qel Droma, when stripped of the force, could still wield his saber to such an extent that he defeated or stalemated a fully fledged Jedi Master Aka Sylvar, adding to the fact, sylvar was full of hatred for both Kun and Ulic, thereby meaning, yes the force guides some of your saber skills, but utimately, your skills and your training with a lightsaber, override how much to force guides you.

Why doesnt it fit? Mace practised, Makashi, the most potent and strongest form in lightsaber dueling, adding on top of that Vaapad, which grants the user more focus, and a more powerful version of Makashi, Mace may have been weaker in force potential, but he was definitely stronger in saber combat.

agreed

Whoa whoa... since when should "mace" and "makashi" be in the same sentence?

Oooo missed that, since when did he practice Makashi? I thought he was purely Vaapad.

Master Mace practiced Vaapad only. Infact he created Vaapad.

ROTS Sidious pwned the Jedi Order, the Republic and the Separatists.


ROTJ Sidious couldn't pwn a handful of Rebels and one Jedi with three years of Experience.

Originally posted by tdtd
That's all a wonderful theory but Palpatine was beaten, as it was stated. Call it the will of the force that Anakin arrived just in time. Yes the force guides lightsaber combat but only so much. That's like saying you're a natural athlete, but without practice you'll never be as good as someone who practices daily. Windu was on par with Yoda in lightsaber combat, as they both effectively disarmed Sidious. Sidious however had more force knowledge than Windu, especially Dark side knowledge which doesn't really help with lightsaber combat.

Where was that stated? It was stated as much from GL that Mace won that it was stated from him that Anakin won over Dooku.

Nothing was stated with the Anakin DOoku fight but the Mace vs. Sidious fight is in the extras

Palpatine had Royal Guards with him at all times. The only time he didn't was when he was trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side. He had an entire army on Courscant, at his disposal, not to mention a vast fleet. He needn't have trained for protection.

Okay, he didn't get his ass handed to him by Windu. Who died? That's right. And ROTJ Luke being anywhere near Mace's power is ridiculous. That's like saying Dooku's the strongest person in the Galaxy because he pwnd the Chosen One. And Vader did all the dirty work. He's the enforcer. Palpatine had his own things to do, in the senate.

tdtd, as a mimimum Palpatine was in no danger during the fight with Windu. And since he was in no danger, and since he needed a way to turn Anakin, and since he faked the "I'm so weak" part (Lucas says so himself) there's a 99% chance he was faking the duel with Mace; let Mace win.

Originally posted by tdtd
Nothing was stated with the Anakin DOoku fight but the Mace vs. Sidious fight is in the extras

Yes it was. GL said Anakin overpowered Dooku, and GL said that Mace overpowered Sidious.

That's what I meant Kamikz.. Sorry Darthsith, Mace did overpower and almost take him out, damn that prophecy. He only started playing the victim when Anakin got in.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Palpatine had Royal Guards with him at all times. The only time he didn't was when he was trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side. He had an entire army on Courscant, at his disposal, not to mention a vast fleet. He needn't have trained for protection.

Okay, he didn't get his ass handed to him by Windu. Who died? That's right. And ROTJ Luke being anywhere near Mace's power is ridiculous. That's like saying Dooku's the strongest person in the Galaxy because he pwnd the Chosen One. And Vader did all the dirty work. He's the enforcer. Palpatine had his own things to do, in the senate.

So what if Palpatine had royal guards with him at all times. He was still vulnerable to traitors and other people even as close as in his inner circle. In fact, someone from his inner circle went on and killed him in the end. With his vast fleet and army at his disposal. He had to have trained for protection.

And secondly, ROTS Palpatine did get his arse handed to him. Windu disarmed him knocked him on his ass at pointed his saber at the Sith's throat, telling him the he "has lost" with Palpatine not saying anything while almost having what seemed like a asthmatic attack and the looked of utter defeat. If that's not a genuine handing of the ass, then I don't know what else it is.

And I didn't say ROTJ Luke was anywhere near Mace's power. I said Palpatine was seconds away from defeating the future NJO leader, a person who can effortlessly beat Mace and perhaps Yoda even.

What does that matter? I'm pretty sure a fully trained Kit Fisto could beat Baby Ragnos.... Doesn't mean jack shit though and it sure as hell doesn't speak for Kit...

Originally posted by darthsith19
tdtd, as a mimimum Palpatine was in no danger during the fight with Windu. And since he was in no danger, and since he needed a way to turn Anakin, and since he faked the "I'm so weak" part (Lucas says so himself) there's a 99% chance he was faking the duel with Mace; let Mace win.

Lucas also said that Mace overpowered Sidious and Sidious used his powers to try and destroy Mace. Sidious only began faking AFTER he tried to kill Mace with his initial lightning. So in fact, Sidious WAS in danger when he realized he was unable to kill Mace with his initial lightning, which was why he called Anakin for help.

Exactly. Watch the GL interview on the episode III dvd

Interview? Or do you mean the DVD commentary?

Yea commentary

I love how we are all making valid points about the fight but you have nothing but false interpretation on your side. Even if Anakin hadn't arrived Palpatine could've just zapped Mace when Mace raised his lightsaber over his head like some damn fool.

Anakin only kiled him cause Luke was there, that was the only time he had no protection.

Palpatine kills three strong Masters in 6 seconds, while Mace stands there and looks dumb. If he really were stronger than Sidious he'd have kiled him during that 6 seconds. And even at the end Palpatine couldn've zapped Mace when he reaised the saber way above his head.

Yes, Sidious was seconds away from killing Luke. And yes, Luke does become far stronger than Mace. Unfortunately, Luke was only a tiny fraction of what he is in NJO. By your logic, if I beat TPM Anakin I'd be the strongest person ever cause I killed the Chosen One.


Lucas says Palpatine fakes being to weak. So he really wasn't to weak. Plus he could have killed Mace when Mace's lightsaber was above his head.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Lucas says Palpatine fakes being to weak. So he really wasn't to weak. Plus he could have killed Mace when Mace's lightsaber was above his head.

Maybe he could have, but remember when Sidious fell onto one knee near the end of the duel? By that same two cents, I could just as easily say that all Mace had to do was swing his lightsaber a little further back and *zoom*, off would have went Palpatine's head.

Darthsith watch the DVD commentary before commenting. Lucas states that Mace was overpowering him with the saber, and that Sidious was helpless when his lightning didn't work.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Maybe he could have, but remember when Sidious fell onto one knee near the end of the duel? By that same two cents, I could just as easily say that all Mace had to do was swing his lightsaber a little further back and *zoom*, off would have went Palpatine's head.
But he didn't. And instead of stabbing Mace he swung his saber over his head, leaving his entire body vulnerable.

Stabbing Mace? You mean stabbing Sidious right? And Mace didn't swing at Sidious, Sidious didn't use his lightning either. Instead, Sidious called Anakin for help, leaving his entire body vulnerable to Mace chopping him in half

lol

Originally posted by tdtd
Darthsith watch the DVD commentary before commenting. Lucas states that Mace was overpowering him with the saber, and that Sidious was helpless when his lightning didn't work. Which is obviously wrong, since Mace ended up flying out of the window at the hands of Sidious.

Only after Anakin disarmed Mace. Yeah, Sidious shot a one-handed, defenseless Jedi out the window. w00t!

Darth Sith you're bordering on illogical fanboyism.. Unless you don't consider Lucas canon, then Sidious had his ass handed to him,.

After being apparently overwhelmed (I'M TOO WEAK) by the purple saber. He blasts the Jedi Master violently out the window quite easily and gets up as if nothing happened.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Stabbing Mace? You mean stabbing Sidious right? And Mace didn't swing at Sidious, Sidious didn't use his lightning either. Instead, Sidious called Anakin for help, leaving his entire body vulnerable to Mace chopping him in half
Yes, I mean stabbing Sidious. Sidious called for Anakin for help, something that GL said was Sidious pretending he needed help. He left his body "vulnerable" cause he knew Anakin would turn to the Dark Side that way.

You people are stupid, watch the commentary or shut up.

Originally posted by Gamblor
After being apparently overwhelmed (I'M TOO WEAK) by the purple saber. He blasts the Jedi Master violently out the window quite easily and gets up as if nothing happened.

Originally posted by tdtd
You people are stupid, watch the commentary or shut up.
Reported. And ironically GL also says Palpatine was faking being weak.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yes, I mean stabbing Sidious. Sidious called for Anakin for help, something that GL said was Sidious pretending he needed help. He left his body "vulnerable" cause he knew Anakin would turn to the Dark Side that way.

Pretending AFTER HE TRIED TO KILL MACE! He WAS trying to kill Mace but got OVERPOWERED. THEN he decided to call Anakin for help. So yes, I am fully aware that Palpatine played possum, but only after Mace overpowered him. THAT is what GL said. We have to make account for the fact that GL said Mace OVERPOWERED Sidious and that Palpatine's initial lightsaber strike was an attemp to KILL Mace as well!

And tdtd, calm down. No need to start bashing darthsith just because of this.

Darthsid, You're not understanding. I'm talking about two different situations. Palpatine was owned by Mace in light saber combat. Then when his lightning had no effect on Mace, he started playing the victim in front of anakin screaming "i'm weak I can't hold on much longer".

Let's clear this up here:


Palpatines Databank Profile: Windu overpowered Palpatine the instant Anakin Skywalker came running into the offices.

Maces Databank Profile: Windu had disarmed Sidious and cornered the treacherous Sith Lord into the frame of his expansive office window.



Lucas stated in his Commentary that Mace defeated Sidious Fair and square.


Nothing indicates in the script, Databank, books or from Lucas that he was faking until after Mace DEFEATED him.

THANK YOU

And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.

Again, good point

And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.

Very nice analysis, but here's mine: After the initial shock of realizing Palpy is Sids, Anakin had his wits about him. He was a Jedi Knight with one flaw. This flaw was not his crave for power, but it was the crave for power to save Padme.

Palpatine was genius in the way he played on Anakin's emotions. They both knew that "If I(Palpatine) am gone, all your chances for saving her will be lost". By saving Palpatine, he felt he was saving his wife. If Anakin had barged in on four Jedi corpses, he wouldn't be moody and rash, he would be firm and headstrong. He would be exactly like he was earlier, wanting to destroy the Sith.

Anakin was a good man who simply started down the wrong path.

A very interesting point Gamblor, I must say. But I will address one point to you. Anakin already had the chance to kill Sidious earlier (when Palpatine first reveals himself as a sith), but chose not to. Why? Sidious mentions Padme. Simple as that. And if Sidious mentions Padme again after killing Mace, what difference does it make?

If he had found the four bodies, he wouldn't be willing to serve him at that point, just like he was unwilling to serve him when he found out about the entire conspiracy earlier. I suppose Palpatine could be able delay his own demise from Anakin (assuming anakin could defeat him, which he couldn't). He would do exactly what he had done earlier: Inform the council and send more Jedi on his ass.

By killing Mace he sealed his fate. There was no turning back.

It's really getting late here, 11 pm. I need to be going. Nice debate going on here Gamblor. I'll be back tomorrow to correct your mistakes j/k.

This is not a debate, we know what Lucas states, why are you arguing with it?

I'll re-watch that scene and listen to what GL says.

he played weak before he used the lightning, too. Played weak.
But the main point is, even if Anakin had not been there Sidious was in very little danger since he could have killed Mace with the lightning while Mace's blade was over his head anyways. And either way palpatine came out on top, so he won, right?

Also from his adatbank profile:
Palpatine slumped in the corner, seemingly too weak to continue the lightning assault.

So okay, I'll admit that he was overpowered in the duel if the rest of y'all admit that if Anakin hadn't showed up he still could have fought for longer than he did and maybe won.


Yes, he got rid of his lightsaberm but as shown in his duel with Yoda, Sidious is more efficient when fighting with the Force anyways.

And okay, Lucas says Mace overpowered him. So okay, he overpowered him in the lightsaber duel. But Palpatine still had lots of power at his disposal.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.
"What have I done?" The moment Anakin kills Mace he regrets his decision. But it is to late to turn back. the Jedi would never forgive him for what he did. Which is stated in The Rise of Darth Vader. If Anakin had walked in to find all the Masters dead he wouldn't have seen Palpatine in danger and wouldn't have had strong enough motivation to turn to the Dark Side.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
And besides, the sole purpose of Sidious's plan was to prove to Anakin that the dark side is stronger. How was Sidious trying to lure Anakin? Simple. He kept saying how much the Jedi held him back, and how much stronger Anakin can be with the dark side. And then he tries to show Anakin that he can't even beat Mace, who, keep in mind, wasn't even the most powerful Jedi in the order? WTF is that? So if Anakin entered the office with Mace lying dead on the floor, and Sidious then says "Do you see how powerful the dark side is? FOUR Jedi Masters were no match for me and my powers of the dark side. And The Jedi never trusted you and constantly held you back. I however, realize your full potential and intend on making sure you will reach it. So you may benefit from this, and learn the powers of the dark side and the power to save your wife . Or you may continue to serve people who don't even trust you, or like you, as a matter of fact, and are constantly holding you back by striking me down. It's your choice". You people are actually gonna tell me that Anakin will attack Palpatine? Anakin has a lust for power. To say he will give up the man who promised him insane powers and powers to save his true love just for someone who doesn't trust him, or hell, doesn't even like him is ludicrous.

Sidious motives there was not to show Anakin the power of dark, but to make him take the last step into the dark. Anakin was good, he didn't fall to Sidious side the last time he confronted him and said he could get unimaginable power, so instead he made Anakin feel that he needed him to survive to help Padme. Anakin had no chioce which left him to do what he did. And he thought it was an assassination attempt, not a fight.

The entire time Sidious was trying to turn Anakin, reminded me of a car dealer tyring to screw a customer.

He fed him believable lies, and like a sucker, Anakin bought it.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The entire time Sidious was trying to turn Anakin, reminded me of a car dealer tyring to screw a customer.

He fed him believable lies, and like a sucker, Anakin bought it.

He didn't really lie at all. Him bringing Padme back wasn't ever proven to to true or false and I can't really think of any other lies Palpatine told Anakin.

What do you mean he didn't lie. It's quite clear he understood how Padme was going to die, way more than Anakin did.

Originally posted by tdtd
What do you mean he didn't lie. It's quite clear he understood how Padme was going to die, way more than Anakin did.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Anakin had a clear vision of exactly the way Padme was going to die, what are you talking about?

And what does Sidious knowing about Padme's death have to do with him lying to Anakin or not? Let's make some sense.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Anakin had a vision that Padme was going to die but in no way did he know how or when..

Uh he saw her dying in childbirth.

I'm saying he has no idea how that came to be, while Palpatine does.

Originally posted by tdtd
I'm saying he has no idea how that came to be, while Palpatine does.

lol?

Anakin had no idea how that came to be? While Palpatine does?

Ok.. I think what you're saying is, is that Anakin had no idea why Padme's death happened. While Palpatine does.

Which is funny because all you did was rearrange the question because the answer is still the same: He saw Padme's death and how and why she died, in a vision/dream/nightmare. That's how Anakin found out how it came to be. Even before Sidious knew. And I can confidently say that last sentence because like I said before, there's no proof that Palpatine knew more or less about Padme's fate more than Anakin did.

Ok? Ok.

Oh and ROTS Sids still takes it.

Anakin had no idea how Padme came to die, otherwise he wouldn't have turned to the darkside to save her, if he knew he was to kill her. Try again

Yeah, Sidious studying from those Jedi Holocrons and openly practicing the Dark Side must have gotten weaker.

Originally posted by Gamblor
Yeah, Sidious studying from those Jedi Holocrons and openly practicing the Dark Side must have gotten weaker.

I don't like to cosign but...classic

Originally posted by tdtd
Anakin had no idea how Padme came to die, otherwise he wouldn't have turned to the darkside to save her, if he knew he was to kill her. Try again

?

Dude. Anakin saw how Padme came to die. It was why he turned to the Darkside in order to prevent her death. She died in the same way Anakin dreamt it. She did indeed die at childbirth. And as an aside, Anakin didn't kill her. She just lost the will to live.

But to him, not turning to the Darkside to learn this "secret" would've caused Padme's death.

He knew how Padme was going to die and it happened in the exact same way he envisioned it retrospectively. What do you mean he had no idea how Padme came to die?

I don't get it.

My point is he didn't know why Padme was going to die at childbirth, and I believe Palpatine did to some extent. If Anakin knew HOW she would come to die at childbirth by losing the will to live, he would have never turned.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Why do I see illogic in someone having more inferior lightsaber skills than an opponent who is more superior at lightsaber fighting but has inferior Force wielding skills than you do? Doesn't the Force guide lightsaber duelist by almost seemingly controlling the wielders actions Palpatine was a superior Force user over Windu yet Windu was a better duelists. It doesn't somehow fit.

I think it makes more sense that there was indeed a chance that Palpatine may have faked his defeat in order to bait Anakin? He did after all ultimately defeat Windu after he cut down 3 High Counsel members in a matter of seconds. Noticed how he fell just before Anakin arrived as if he sense Anakin's arrival. As if it was planned. Noticed how Palpatine was slyly looking at Anakin while he was begging for his life to be spared. That was a look of knowing what the hell he was doing. That sneaky look.

The Force guides you in using the lightsaber, that's all. I've read twice, once in a GL interview (can't remember where, sorry) that the energy beam of the lightsaber is weightless. The only portion that weighs anything at all is the hilt. Therefore, The Force must guide you in using a lightsaber because without The Force you slice yourself from time to time and you'd be completely off balance trying to strike with it. You ABSOLUTELY need to practice to become good and to stay sharp. In all six movies only once do I remember ANYONE using a lightsaber that wasn't Force-adept. In The Empire Strikes Back Han Solo ignites Luke's lightsaber to cut open some two-legged kangaroo-type beast so he and Luke could use the skin to stay warm.

And Sidious was ABSOLUTELY faking in his "loss" to Mace Windu. FistOfThe North already pointed out a bunch of reasons. On top of those, do you really think Anakin would have turned to the darkside had he walked in and seen Sidious standing over 4 dead Jedi masters? He was tempted to kill the Chancellor upon first learning he was the Sith Lord the Jedi had been looking for. He would've battled Sidious on the spot and fulfilled his destiny 20 years earlier. He needed the Jedi to seem like traitors who were attempting to take over the Republic.

Too bad you're just another troll that tries to contradict the words of George Lucas, just like FistoftheNorth.

In all of your debating this, you save your only baseless comment for me...I feel honored.

No, I've already told FistoftheNorth. George Lucas supersedes fanboyism.

Originally posted by tdtd
Anakin had a vision that Padme was going to die but in no way did he know how or when..

I agree that GL absolutely supercedes whatever other sources you could possibly consider canon. I will watch the DVD commentary to check for anything opposite of what I've previously read or seen. If he claims that Sidious wasn't faking, then he should make movies that show his exact vision onscreen. The seen I've watched 744 times shows him faking so that Anakin will make a decision that will forever cut his ties with the Jedi.

The movies never show him faking. They show him being overpowered and that's exactly how it went. He started playing the victim as soon as his force lightning had no effect on Mace.

Of course he was overpowered in the saber fight, but you don't have to be going all-out to be overpowered.

Originally posted by tdtd
Anakin had a vision that Padme was going to die but in no way did he know how or when..

As a late comment on this side-debate, Anakin did dream exactly how she was going to die, which led him to seek a way to save her. Sidious made him believe the Darkside was the way, he believed it, end of story.

Now if you meant to say that Anakin/ Vader had no idea the children lived while Sidious knew full well that they did, then I agree.

I'm leaving work, so if the DVD commentary shows something contrary to what I've already read/seen, I'll be back to admit bright and early tommorow. Untill then, May The For...whoa, that would've been corny...

Gamblor, he was overpowered because he underestimated Mace. Stop with the fanboy logic.

Originally posted by Gamblor
Of course he was overpowered in the saber fight, but you don't have to be going all-out to be overpowered.

Wow. You don't get it, do you? Sidious lost and he was trying. End of story.

Seriously.

Wow. You don't get it, do you? Sidious lost and he was trying. End of story.

Yet you still haven't proved he was trying. Try again. "Overpower" is a broad term.

Watch the commentary fanboy.

My opinion is that Sidious lost the lightsaber fight, but started faking everything after. From the looks of things he does later, he could have flung Windu away from him at any time. *shrug*

*waits for someone to shout 'fanboy!' or 'feat wars!'*

Originally posted by Gamblor
Wow. You don't get it, do you? Sidious lost and he was trying. End of story.

Yet you still haven't proved he was trying. Try again. "Overpower" is a broad term.


I could fetch up every single word in the English language and I could consider them expansive.

You're showing symptoms of Fanboyism and it's hurting.


So, How come George didn't clear up in the commentary that Sidious was faking it? He said Sidious began to fake it after he had been defeated.


Go away now.

Originally posted by Captain REX
My opinion is that Sidious lost the lightsaber fight, but started faking everything after. From the looks of things he does later, he could have flung Windu away from him at any time. *shrug*

*waits for someone to shout 'fanboy!' or 'feat wars!'*

Not really. He tried to fling Mace away and failed almost too miserabely.

Databank Sez:

Palpatine unleashed a torrent of Sith lightning at the Jedi Master, but Windu was able to deflect it back at the Chancellor. The evil energies twisted Palpatine's face as they flowed through him, scarring and disfiguring his once handsome features.

Rex, baby... It was STATED that Palpatine started playing weak after his initial lightning didn't work on Mace. Everything before, he was pwned.

Originally posted by tdtd
Rex, baby... It was STATED that Palpatine started playing weak after his initial lightning didn't work on Mace. Everything before, he was pwned.

Why'd you just call Rex "Baby"?


I smell Brokeback Mountain all over again . . .

So, How come George didn't clear up in the commentary that Sidious was faking it? He said Sidious began to fake it after he had been defeated.

"Began" is the key word here. If he really said that then I yield, if he didn't then it's open to interpretation.

And stop with the namecalling. No need to get hostile over this.

Originally posted by tdtd
Rex, baby... It was STATED that Palpatine started playing weak after his initial lightning didn't work on Mace. Everything before, he was pwned.

Where's the 'fanboy' rantings? Baby?

Anyways, I didn't mean the lightning. Mace was obviously deflecting that with his lightsaber. But then we see Sidious flinging things several times the weight of Mace Windu at Yoda. If Anakin hadn't walked in, could he have possibly just knocked Windu away from him and run for it, or pushed him out the window?

Originally posted by Gamblor
So, How come George didn't clear up in the commentary that Sidious was faking it? He said Sidious began to fake it after he had been defeated.

"Began" is the key word here. If he really said that then I yield, if he didn't then it's open to interpretation.

And stop with the namecalling. No need to get hostile over this.


Stop with the namecalling, you say?


*Shifts into third grade.*

Make me!



Everything is a Key word with you. Sidious got smashed by Mace. Accept it.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Where's the 'fanboy' rantings? Baby?

Anyways, I didn't mean the lightning. Mace was obviously deflecting that with his lightsaber. But then we see Sidious flinging things several times the weight of Mace Windu at Yoda. If Anakin hadn't walked in, could he have possibly just knocked Windu away from him and run for it, or pushed him out the window?

Possibly, assuming Mace had no defense for a force push or anything like that. Then again if Anakin didn't come in, Mace would have killed Palpatine.

So we would assume.

Well no it's actually kind of logical.. Palpatine couldn't move Windu and Windu would have just struck down Palpatine. Again, damn that prophecy.

Originally posted by tdtd
Too bad you're just another troll that tries to contradict the words of George Lucas, just like FistoftheNorth.

?

How am I trolling. I'm merely stating facts you're opposing yet you accuse me of inciting flame. (and fanboyism). You couldn't counter and I'm the bad guy. Only at KMC.

I come in peace, td-man

Your facts aren't facts. They're opinions which are inaccurate.

Originally posted by tdtd
Your facts aren't facts. They're opinions which are inaccurate.

It's not a fact that Anakin saw Padme's death in a nightmare he was having? I'm inaccurate in my saying that Anakin turned to the Darkside to try and save Padme from dying? Have you watched ROTS, dude?

If so, tell me what I said that was inaccurate or nonfactual.

Again, if Anakin new why she was dying he would have never turned to the darkside. The word Irony comes to mind in the way she died.

Exactly, tdtd.

Thank you

Originally posted by tdtd
Possibly, assuming Mace had no defense for a force push or anything like that. Then again if Anakin didn't come in, Mace would have killed Palpatine.
Lets put it this way. Mace didn't decide to kill Palpatine till after he used the lightning. So if Anakin hadn't arrived AND Palpatine didn't think he'd be able to win he'd have simply let Mace arrest him. Better arrested than dead.

Oh yea, that really sounds like Palpatine. Letting himself get arrested and a chance to get tried by Yoda and Mace.. Very logical.

Originally posted by tdtd
Oh yea, that really sounds like Palpatine. Letting himself get arrested and a chance to get tried by Yoda and Mace.. Very logical.
He might have let himself get arrested. He had more than half of the senate under his control.

I HIGHLY doubt the Jedi believed he was going to let himself be arrested. In fact it's more than likely they knew they were in for a fight..

Well I saw the sequel to Brokeback Mountain 2 on the Daily Show a few weeks ago and I must say I liked what I saw. Two hot lesbians, now THAT's the way to go.

Originally posted by tdtd
I HIGHLY doubt the Jedi believed he was going to let himself be arrested. In fact it's more than likely they knew they were in for a fight..
I was talking about after Mace knocked the lightsaber out of Sidious's hand. When he said "You are under arrest my lord" He might have let himself be arrested there.

Is that why he shot lightning at him as a final attempt to destroy Mace?

I think alot of us need to rewatch ROTS again.

No no, I think I've seen it enough.

ROTJ Sidious has this.

1. To say that Sidious hasn't touched a saber in 20 years is just plain stupid. Sidious trained dozens of Dark Jedi and they all wielded lightsabers. Do you think they just trained themselves?

2. Sidious has had an extra 20 years to study the force. Yes, he spent most of his time studying the force. The Moffs did most of the work maintaining the Empire.

Do you think that Palpatine could have written three volumes of the Darkside conpendium if he had spent all him time managing his Empire?

3. The only difference in lightsaber skills between DE Sidious and ROTJ Sidious is that DE Sidious has a younger body and a few years of ezperince. DE Sidious was stated as moving so fast that Leia couldn't see them move. All she saw was brief flashes of light. I doubt a younger body made that much of a difference.

Alot of it comes from the fact that Sidious is only 20% more powerful than Vader. They simply don't want to accept that Vader has a shitload of force power.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
ROTJ Sidious has this.

1. To say that Sidious hasn't touched a saber in 20 years is just plain stupid. Sidious trained dozens of Dark Jedi and they all wielded lightsabers. Do you think they just trained themselves?

2. Sidious has had an extra 20 years to study the force. Yes, he spent most of his time studying the force. The Moffs did most of the work maintaining the Empire.

Do you think that Palpatine could have written three volumes of the Darkside conpendium if he had spent all him time managing his Empire?

3. The only difference in lightsaber skills between DE Sidious and ROTJ Sidious is that DE Sidious has a younger body and a few years of ezperince. DE Sidious was stated as moving so fast that Leia couldn't see them move. All she saw was brief flashes of light. I doubt a younger body made that much of a difference.

1. Why is it stupid? Sidious had absolutely no need for a lightsaber for the next 20 years. Sidious trained dozens of dark jedi, ok... Which one of them weilded lightsabers? This is an actual question since I don't know.
2. Sidious had 20 years to study the force but where is there any evidence that he did. If I'm correct, he didn't even visit Korriban til he was reborn. If there is evidence that he studied the force for those 20 years then show it to me please. Also I have yet to find all of the written works of the Dark Side compendium, if it even exists outside of name.

3. We're comparing ROTJ and ROTS Sidous, and ROTS Sidious was noticeably quicker with subpar skills at best. Nobody is arguing how powerful DE Sidious was.

Originally posted by tdtd
1. Why is it stupid? Sidious had absolutely no need for a lightsaber for the next 20 years. Sidious trained dozens of dark jedi, ok... Which one of them weilded lightsabers? This is an actual question since I don't know.

Notice that I said all of them. At least, all of them that I can think of.

Sidious needed to train his students in lightsaber combat. That is a need for it.

Oh, and what need did Mace have for his lightsaber before AOTC? He must have not touched it for 20 years as well.

Originally posted by tdtd
2. Sidious had 20 years to study the force but where is there any evidence that he did. If I'm correct, he didn't even visit Korriban til he was reborn. If there is evidence that he studied the force for those 20 years then show it to me please. Also I have yet to find all of the written works of the Dark Side compendium, if it even exists outside of name.

Sidious wrote three massive books on the Darkside between ROTS and ROTJ. Obviously he was focusing on the force.

And do you really think that Sidious never studied any of the enourmous amounts of knowledge he recovered from the Jedi Temple?

The proof that Sidious trained is that he got better between ROTS and ROTJ. A lot better, as you will see in my next post.

Oh, and you need to prove that Sidious didn't train, as it is the norm for Sith to do so. BTW, during ROTS he states that the goal of the Sith is more power. Training is a very good way to accomplish this.

Originally posted by tdtd
3. We're comparing ROTJ and ROTS Sidous, and ROTS Sidious was noticeably quicker with subpar skills at best. Nobody is arguing how powerful DE Sidious was.

Dude, you suck at reading. The only difference between DE Sidious and ROTJ Sidious is that DE Sidious is a bit younger(makes little difference to force users) and that DE Sidious has a few extra years of training. And notice that ROTS Sidious was in no way moving faster then a Jedi Knight can see.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Notice that I said all of them. At least, all of them that I can think of.

Sidious needed to train his students in lightsaber combat. That is a need for it.

Oh, and what need did Mace have for his lightsaber before AOTC? He must have not touched it for 20 years as well.



Sidious wrote three massive books on the Darkside between ROTS and ROTJ. Obviously he was focusing on the force.

And do you really think that Sidious never studied any of the enourmous amounts of knowledge he recovered from the Jedi Temple?

The proof that Sidious trained is that he got better between ROTS and ROTJ. A lot better, as you will see in my next post.

Oh, and you need to prove that Sidious didn't train, as it is the norm for Sith to do so. BTW, during ROTS he states that the goal of the Sith is more power. Training is a very good way to accomplish this.



Dude, you suck at reading. The only difference between DE Sidious and ROTJ Sidious is that DE Sidious is a bit younger(makes little difference to force users) and that DE Sidious has a few extra years of training. And notice that ROTS Sidious was in no way moving faster then a Jedi Knight can see.

First I ask you to prove that Sidious DID train with a lightsaber and the force for 20 years because we have no evidence of that. In response, you tell me to prove that he didn't? Come on, seriously..

And DE Sidious was a LOT younger, a LOT more powerful, and had at least 10 years to study, especially on Korriban. That's a BIG difference that ROTJ Sidious. ROTJ Sidious looks like a shriveled old man whose only weapon is his force lightning.

I'm not insulting you by any means, just the fact remains that we don't have any proof that Sidious had a reason to train with a saber. The force is another matter obviously, yet I don't know of any students he trained in lightsaber technique except Mara Jade.