Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

1st Round : Lightsabers
2nd Round : Force only
3rd Round : All powers.

Who wins?

Assuming Anakin keeps his head on properly right? Bah, Sidious and Dooku win anyways.

1. Anakin and Mace. Anakin has betetr saber skills than Dooku, that's why he ebat him in ROTS, and Dooku got tired. Mace's saber skills are at least even with Palpatine's.
2. Palpatine and Dooku by far. Palpatine's Force skills beat any one's from the movies except maybe Yoda's. Mace is a few notches below him and even Dooku is a notch above Mace. ROTS Anakin is, at best, even with Mace in Force powers.
3. Anything goes? Hmm... then Palpatine beats Mace while Dooku and Anakin duel. Eitehr Dooku whips out some Force powers and takes out Anakin or Anakin outduels him, kills him and then gets beaten by Sidious. So either way Sidious and Dooku win this one.

1. Dooku and Sidious, Dooku will surely want to duel with Mace Windu. The fight will last for an eternity with no real winner probably. Palpatine however will take out Anakin pretty fast, and then go and help Dooku beat Mace.

2. Palpatine and Dooku, they use the Dark Side. Dark Siders are always better in using the force for offensive moves then lightsiders and neither Mace nor Anakin has shown the ability to block lightning with the force, they will be fried pretty fast.

3. Again Dooku and Palps, they are better with a lightsaber and with the force.

Anakin is the weakest link in this situation while Mace is a better duelist than Sidious and equal to or better than Dooku.

This fight won't last very long. Dooku or Palpatine could cluster**** Anakin within a few seconds and then Mace dies shortly after.

I dunno, if the fight on The Invinsible Hand was legit...

Well, Dooku was set up and he also allowed Anakin to gain too much confidence. But Dooku or Sidious would be able to wipe Skywalker out via the force.

Just look at Kenobi, Dooku effortlessly levitating him and then tossed him across the room...

Anakin is greater than Kenobi. Heck, even in his blind, grief-overwhelmed state, he still manages to stalemate Kenobi in a force fight and keep him on the defensive the whole time on Mustafar. He even lands a couple kicks in.

What? They're basically equal in terms of power, perhaps with Anakin being slightly better. But Kenobi was far more intelligent.

If Dooku wanted both of them dead, neither would have left the Invisible Hand alive...

That seems like the logical conclusion, given Dooku's background (power), but George Lucas said that Episode 3 we'll see Vader in his prime... Beating a jobbing old man and being sliced up by Obi-Luck Kenobi doesn't really show him in all his glory. I think the scene might have been there to show how powerful Anakin had become. But that makes no sense either, considering Obi-Wan was bantha fodder to Dooku.

meh

I think it's mainly Lucas' error. He messed up badly on the Sidious versus Jedi fight scene too.

But yeah, it makes little sense that Anakin would be able to beat Dooku, when we see that Dooku is arguably the best duelist in the PT era.

Originally posted by darthsith19
1. Anakin and Mace. Anakin has betetr saber skills than Dooku, that's why he ebat him in ROTS, and Dooku got tired. Mace's saber skills are at least even with Palpatine's.
2. Palpatine and Dooku by far. Palpatine's Force skills beat any one's from the movies except maybe Yoda's. Mace is a few notches below him and even Dooku is a notch above Mace. ROTS Anakin is, at best, even with Mace in Force powers.
3. Anything goes? Hmm... then Palpatine beats Mace while Dooku and Anakin duel. Eitehr Dooku whips out some Force powers and takes out Anakin or Anakin outduels him, kills him and then gets beaten by Sidious. So either way Sidious and Dooku win this one.


1. Anakin doesn't have better Saber skills.

Dooku wasn't putting his best out there for whatever reason.


2. I agree.


3. Meh, I think Dooku would lop off Anakins other arm while Sidious goes ape shit on Mace.

1st Round : Lightsabers
Anakin and Mace win. Mace defeated Sidious with only a lightsaber and Anakin defeated Dooku with just a lightsaber

2nd Round : Force only
Sidious and Dooku. Sidious was clearly faking his defeat by saying he was too weak and then explodes with this huge amount of energy and Dooku is clearly stronger in the force then Anakin considering he tossed Obi-Wan around like a doll and Obi-Wan was one of the best PT Jedi.

3rd Round : All powers.
Sidious and Dooku. They use the force to overwhelm Mace and Anakin during lightsaber combat.

What If it goes Sidious VS Anakin and then Dooku VS Mace?


That would just open the gate to the whole Dooku VS Mace subject, which is a very hot one.

Sorgo, according to The Anomaly, Lucas says on the ROTS dvd that Anakin won fair and square, and that he was a better duelist.

Originally posted by zod360
Sorgo, according to The Anomaly, Lucas says on the ROTS dvd that Anakin won fair and square, and that he was a better duelist.



Do you have a quote of him saying that? Anyone got a MIDI file or something?


I'd be interested in hearing what Lucas said.

Can anyone confirm that? I am interested as well.

I think it's stupid really. I can't see how Anakin could take Dooku without Dooku being limbless and blind...

He couldn't...

Dooku is a match in saber skill for even Yoda. Are you saying that Yoda would lose to Anakin?

No, the best person doesn't always win. Dooku was on par with Mace and Yoda but he lost to Anakin. Anakin was supposed to be better than Obiwan but he lost..

Originally posted by Arker
He couldn't...

Dooku is a match in saber skill for even Yoda. Are you saying that Yoda would lose to Anakin?

no he ain't!!sorry but if a prostrate Ani and Obi aren't there Yoda would have pwn3d him!! did u see that duel ??Dooku was SHITTING it all the way!!!

Dooku is a match for Yoda. Doesn't mean he will win, in fact he would lose 99% of the time but he is still a match for him..

George Lucas, Nick Gillard and the film agree with me.


Mace beats Dooku, Anakin holds Sidious off for long enough for Mace to help him kill Palpatine. Palpatine's saber skills arn't the greatest, remember? Only about even with Dooku's.

I have you the quote once before.

"In this particular case Palpatine's testing Anakin to see if he's strong enough to become his apprentice and he and he doesn't actually tell Dooku what he's up to so Dooku thinks he's just going to fight him but the whole thing was a set up by the Emperor to test Anakin's strength and when Anakin's strong enough, which he proves to be by killing Dooku, then the Emperor's ready to convert him over to the Dark Side to become his new apprentice."

Like I said, bring in what Lucas said.

Nick Gillard isn't a Canon source. He's a trainer. The Film? The Film indicates that Dooku isolated Kenobi and tried to turn Anakin to the Dark side.

Dooku have beaten Mace, beaten the person who beat Anakin TWICE and held his own against Yoda.

So can Anakin kill Mace, Yoda and Kenobi? Wait, we know he can't kill Kenobi.



Your MACE BEATS DOOKU point is moot. You have nothing backing that up. Anakin holding up Sidious? What the hell? Sidious would put Anakin into the ground! Anakin isn't the greatest with his Saber either. He got smashed by Kenobi who according to your Gillard source is only an eight where as Anakin is a Nine.



He mentioned that Dooku thought it would just be a fight, correct?

I can tell you this: The fight wasn't honest and logically it couldn't be like that. Too much obvious clues indicate there was something more expansive about the fight. Dooku excluded Kenobi, continously tried to get Anakin to use his rage and was suprised at Palpatines outcome. And in the cut script, Dooku says You promised me amnesty!


Dooku most likely wanted a pardon from all of his bad deeds but Palpatine had other plans.

Yep. My guess is Dooku wasn't worried about losing, so he kinda let his guard down. At the end of LoE, Sidious tells Dooku about the plan.

Last time I checked his word was more official than yours.

To bad Lucas directly contridicts this.

Has, not have. And he didn't hold his won against Yoda, that's like saying ESB Luke held his own against Vader.

Dark Rendezvous states that Yoda and Mace could beat Dooku, but probably no other Jedi at that time. Oh, and he was beating Dooku in Obsession, Dooku needed the help of a couple Magnaguards.

Sidious is about even with Dooku in saber skills, right?

Doesn't mean he has worse saber skills. Yoda has better saber skills than Sidious and he still lost.


And Sorgo, wern't you one of the ones making fun of glentract cause he said the movies are more canon than Lucas?

Lucas just said "Mace overpowers Sidious".

Yes, he beat him. Sidious was left with a saber to his throat. Anakin also "overpowers" Dooku. But does that mean they were going all out?

Sidious was going all out. Dooku wasn't.

You checked wrong.



Which is why Dooku says "You have power, you have anger, yet you don't use it!" If that's not screaming "Use your freaking rage and turn to the Dark Side!", then I don't know what is.



In saber combat, he was giving Yoda trouble.



Since when have a couple of MG's given any Jedi much trouble?



No. Dooku could beat Sidioius in saber combat.



I guess I agree with this. Kenobi would've lost to Anakin if the fight had continued.

I don't know about that, Kenobi was more than holding his own against Obiwan. And yes Dooku is leagues above Sidious in saber combat.

Originally posted by tdtd
I don't know about that, Kenobi was more than holding his own against Obiwan. And yes Dooku is leagues above Sidious in saber combat.

Kenobi held his own against Obi-Wan?

I've already said that if Dooku started out fighting Anakin ine-on-one he might win. Cause he was tired by the time they fought one-on-one in ROTS.

Sidious was going all out. Dooku wasn't.

Seemed alot more convenient for Sidious than for Dooku.

After the fight, Sidious got +1 new apprentice, +1 new shiny Empire, +1 reason to wear his kickass black robe.

After the fight on The Invisible Hand, Dooku was left with -2 hand and -1 head.

Now do you have any evidence that Dooku was faking and Palpatine was not?

I meant Obiwan was holding his own against Anakin..

Yeah, I guess Sorgo is more official than Gillard.

Why would Dooku want Anakin to kill him? What it meant was "Your hatred is powerful, but I'm still gonna kick yer ass!"

But Yoda had the upper hand the entire duel. Abd remember that Yoda wasn't trying to kill Dooku but capture him.

There's a chance.

Possibly. It could have gone either way.

Read the end of LoE, Gamblor.

Sidious says "If he by some fluke bests you, I will control the situation from there and spare you any further embarassment. We will have gained one new ally. But above all, you must make the contest appear real."

Knowing this, Dooku could go easy on Anakin because he'd live even if he'd lose. He'd just need to make it look real.

No, Not really. He isn't a Canon Source.



Lucas contradicts what happened in the movie? Dooku got Kenobi out of the way to isolate Skywalker to try to turn him to the Dark side.



Wrong.

Has not have? Mace lost to Dooku in a battle when Dooku was a Jedi. No, Dooku didn't lose any limbs nor did he lose pathetically.





Sidious is about even with Dooku in saber skills, right?

Doesn't mean he has worse saber skills. Yoda has better saber skills than Sidious and he still lost.

Who was beating Dooku in Obsession? He never fought seriously! He trained Grievous, Mace fought Grievous and then Anakin tweaked and crumbled a wall and Dooku was like "Awesome!"

DATABANK SEZ for Maces profile:

"It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku."







What the . . . ? Who the hell said the Movies were more Canon than Lucas? I didn't even imply that! I merely said there was more to the battle between Dooku and Anakin.

If what TheAnomaly states is true, then Lucas overrides it (or, it could be interpreted to override it).

Either way, it's possible Dooku went easily on Anakin in the beginning, realized he was outmatched at went all out again, being outmatched once more.

I don't belive that though. But Sidious faking the fight to Mace would be just as likely.

For the last time Sidious didn't fake anything. Lucas clearly states this.

Originally posted by Arker
Read the end of LoE, Gamblor.

Sidious says "If he by some fluke bests you, I will control the situation from there and spare you any further embarassment. We will have gained one new ally. But above all, you must make the contest appear real."

Knowing this, Dooku could go easy on Anakin because he'd live even if he'd lose. He'd just need to make it look real.

This could be possible.

Originally posted by Gamblor
If what TheAnomaly states is true, then Lucas overrides it (or, it could be interpreted to override it).

Either way, it's possible Dooku went easily on Anakin in the beginning, realized he was outmatched at went all out again, being outmatched once more.

I don't belive that though. But Sidious faking the fight to Mace would be just as likely.

Sidious faked it the second after his Lightsaber was kicked out of his hand. Before that, Mace had outmaneuvered him.

No Sidious faked NOTHING except for claiming to be weak when Anakin arrived, and Sidious realized his Lightning would have no effect on mace.

Yes Lucas, on the DVD commentary says nothing about the saber fight between Mace and Sidious. So wemust take it that, in all likelyhood, Sidious lost the fight. HOWEVER, Lucas says that the whole part after was acting by Sidious.

Please tdtd, when did Lucas clearly state this? Saying "overpower" does that mean Sidious was going all out in the saber duel.

And haven't any of you seen the Clone Wars? Dooku drove Mace away with little to no effort on Boz Pity.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Yes Lucas, on the DVD commentary says nothing about the saber fight between Mace and Sidious. So wemust take it that, in all likelyhood, Sidious lost the fight. HOWEVER, Lucas says that the whole part after was acting by Sidious.

Yes, he was acting AFTER his initial lightning attempt (which WAS an attempt to kill Mace) failed.

Thank you DarkNemesis, these people have a hard time comprehending simple things.

Originally posted by tdtd
No Sidious faked NOTHING except for claiming to be weak when Anakin arrived, and Sidious realized his Lightning would have no effect on mace.

That's what I meant.


Sidious got his ass handed to him by Mace. End of story.

Agreed

Yes, he was acting AFTER his initial lightning attempt (which WAS an attempt to kill Mace) failed.

First of all, DID Lucas say Palpatine was trying to kill Mace? Or was he TRYING TO GET MACE TO WANT TO KILL HIM?

It's quite genius. Mace was going to arrest him before the lightning. After the lightning, Mace tries to kill him. This sets Anakin down the path of no return.

Why would he attempt to kill mace when the whole point of everything was to get Anakin was to turn? If he killed Mace with the lightning, then Anakin does not turn. Which was the point.

Kinda defeats the point of the whole sequence had he just up and decided to waste Mace as Anakin walked in the room.

Plus, to say that Mace outright beat Sidious would be to infer that Mace was more powerful then Yoda. Which is not true, Mace admits this himself in Shatterpoint. (and puts Anakin on the same level as Yoda and Kar Vastor I might add)

Let's not forget the convenience of Anakin entering the room exactly when Mace disarms Palpatine.

Oh dear. The Luck be with you Emperor.

Yoda loses to Sidious due to circumstances. Both Mace and Yoda are more powerful than Sidious. Anomaly, your speculation is merely that, and contradictory of Lucas.

Due to circumstance? Or due to Sidious being able to manipulate the environment to his advantage?

See, if Palpatine going all out, then Dooku was going all out. It's nearly the same damn argument for both cases.

Originally posted by Gamblor
Yes, he was acting AFTER his initial lightning attempt (which WAS an attempt to kill Mace) failed.

First of all, DID Lucas say Palpatine was trying to kill Mace? Or was he TRYING TO GET MACE TO WANT TO KILL HIM?

It's quite genius. Mace was going to arrest him before the lightning. After the lightning, Mace tries to kill him. This sets Anakin down the path of no return.

"Here is the scene where Mace overpowers Palpatine, and Palpatine uses his powers to try and destroy Mace." GL said NOTHING about Palpatine having any "ingenius plan".

Originally posted by Gamblor
Let's not forget the convenience of Anakin entering the room exactly when Mace disarms Palpatine.

Oh dear. The Luck be with you Emperor.

In AOTC, Dooku is about to kill Obi-Wan right when Anakin recovers and saves him. And Dooku also disarms Anakin right when Yoda arrives in the hanger. I don't see what's the problem.

Um just because Mace beats Sidious doesn't mean he's more powerful than Yoda. Yoda more than matched Sidious in lightsaber combat and force abilities and didn't even really "Lose" as the fight was a stalemate with Yoda gaining the upper hand before he fell. Your logic is faulty. Just because Obiwan beat Anakin doesn't mean he's better. Just because Anakin beat Dooku doesn't mean he's better.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Why would he attempt to kill mace when the whole point of everything was to get Anakin was to turn? If he killed Mace with the lightning, then Anakin does not turn. Which was the point.

Kinda defeats the point of the whole sequence had he just up and decided to waste Mace as Anakin walked in the room.

Plus, to say that Mace outright beat Sidious would be to infer that Mace was more powerful then Yoda. Which is not true, Mace admits this himself in Shatterpoint. (and puts Anakin on the same level as Yoda and Kar Vastor I might add)

Just because A beat B, and B beat C, it doesn't guarentee A a victory over C, hence why we have the game "Rock, paper, scissors". Mace beat Sidious, it doesn't mean Mace will automatically beat Yoda. Anakin floored Dooku, and Dooku threw Obi-Wan away like a rag doll. I guess that means Anakin should have demolished Obi-Wan.

Apparently Sorgo and tdtd

Palpatine uses his powers to try and destroy Mace." GL said NOTHING about Palpatine having any "ingenius plan".

But he did, and you didn't catch it.

You think of his powers as the Sith Lightning. I think of his powers as his machiavellian domination of Anakin Skywalker, the shatterpoint against the darkness. Or, in this case, the shatterpoint and the darkness.

"Palpatine using his powers to try and destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber."

Very convenient how he decided to say that Mace deflected his rays right after saying Palpatine tries to destroy him with his powers.

Very convenient how he decided to say that Mace deflected his rays right after saying Palpatine tries to destroy him with his powers.

He was deflecting his Sith Lightning rays. The powers and "his rays" don't have to be the same entity.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Why would he attempt to kill mace when the whole point of everything was to get Anakin was to turn? If he killed Mace with the lightning, then Anakin does not turn. Which was the point.

Kinda defeats the point of the whole sequence had he just up and decided to waste Mace as Anakin walked in the room.

Plus, to say that Mace outright beat Sidious would be to infer that Mace was more powerful then Yoda. Which is not true, Mace admits this himself in Shatterpoint. (and puts Anakin on the same level as Yoda and Kar Vastor I might add)

Didn't you say in another thread only minutes ago that Lucas' word virtually tramps over any other source? So why would things change now?


No, I don't think so. Thinks aren't going to change in your favor. It says in the Star Wars Databank that Mace and Yoda are on par.

Not to mention, With Sidious and Yoda fighting, Sidious had the high ground for much of the time and Yoda had a bit of a winning edge IMHO.

Mace and Sidious were confined in a small Office on parallel level. And we all saw what happens when a Duelist gets the high ground at the end of the Movie.


Mace defeated Sidious fairly. End of story.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The A>B>C Bullshit is moot and often shouldn't be used in an Argument.


I can put that theory to shit right now.

Example:

Dooku beat Kenobi. Kenobi Beat Anakin. So Dooku beat Anakin? Nope.


It's that simple. That analogy never could work. Different opponents fight differently with each other. That's the way it is.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Now your not even reading what I said. I DID NOT USE THAT ARGUMENTATION METHOD.

What I said was, that in this case, the A>B>C argument happens to SAY the same thing as the actual evidence.

Now you're assuming I was accusing you.


I was speaking generally of the A>B>C Method. I wasn't speaking to you directly.


You guys were talking about it so I thought I would share my opinion.

Unfortunately, as far as lightsaber action goes he is.

What else was he gonna do? Keep the two together? LOL.

And guess what? Luke lost to Vader in ESB but by NJO he could kill him by snapping his fingers.

But he was not even.

Mace was. Mace made the ground under Grievous explode. Then Dooku left his castle and told the Magnaguards with him to "Find Asajj and Grievous but leave the Jedi to me." then Mace ran over and attacked him. Dooku said something like "You won't kill me. Blah, blah, blah." Then he realised he wasn't gonna win and two Magnaguards grabed Mace. And Mace said something like "You think these droids are gonna stop me?" and Dooku said "No, but they will hold you back for long enough for me to escape." and he ran away, just as he ran away from Yoda not once, but twice.

Meaning maybe Dooku may have bested him once and Mace bested Dooku a thousand times. But it doesn't matter, since I've provided two legitiment sources for why Mace > Dooku as AOTC - ROTS.


I provided Lucas's quote saying Dooku didn't know nothin and you say "But the movie contridicts this." GL's the highest source of canon. get over it.





And Mace aslo said Depa Billaba was stronger than he in Shatterpoint was and he was wrong. Mace aint always right. There's no way in hell Anakin, as of Shatterpoint, is stronger than Mace.

1. sidious and dooku. if dookus arrogance hadnt caught up with him and hed played it serious fromthe start i think hed probably won. anakin, despite his awesome power is very young, and in comparison inexperienced. i dont think mace could beat sidious in a serious encounter where sidious wants mace dead rather than wants to use him to turn anakin.

2. sidious and dooku. sidious could overpower either mace or anakin with little trouble, and dooku was one of the most powerful masters in the order and could at least equal mace. thats long enough for sidious to take out anakin and then join dooku.

3. dooku and sidious. if the oppertinuty is there sidious seems to favour force powers than saber combat, and hes far ahead of the rest here, he kills either mace or anakin and helps dooku finish whoever is left.

But if it were to come to a force fight, how powerful one is with the force is not the only factor. How well you defend against them and how well you resist them are probably more important, and Mace is shown through the movies to be great at doing so. I mean he was able to block Sidious' lightning with his saber when he was basically right next to him, and to my knowledge has never come across sith lightning. He was also able to redirect it and was thus able to cause Sidious' fd up face.

Why not? He killed Mace, didn't he?



Dooku was in a hurry. Not to mention, he didn't want to risk everything for a fight. There was more important things than fighting Mace.


For example: Sidious tried to get away from Yoda at the beginning of their fight.

After the fight, who ended up running? Yoda or Sidious? That's what I thought.

So, what you mentioned about Shatterpoint proves nothing.

At least Yoda managed to stop Sidious from getting away. Mace Failed.




Vader was not going all out during that fight. He didn't want to kill or hurt his son. He proved this by chucking Sidious into a Shaft.

Just because that happened with Luke and Vader doesn't mean it will happen with Dooku and Mace.

So, Dooku bested Mace before but he can't do it again? I don't think so.




BTW: Nick Gillard isn't a source of Canon.

For the last time who the hell is Vastor? And if he's as powerful as Yoda(which I highly doubt) what happened to him? Windu is simply a better swordsman than Palpatine. Nobody is denying that Palpatine would own Windu in the force but Palpatine was screwed when his lightning was thrown back at him. THEN AND ONLY THEN did he start playing the victim.

I don't see why it's so hard to understand. Anomaly has provided direct quotes from Lucas himself and really you cannot contradrict that.

Do you know that Dooku was going all out on Anakin? Sidious promised that if Anakin had somehow fluked Dooku, he'd be promised amnesty. Do you think that he'd need to go all out?

Dooku > Anakin

Mace > Sidious

Then it's a matter of Mace vs Dooku, which would be a tough-ass fight.

Originally posted by Arker
Do you know that Dooku was going all out on Anakin? Sidious promised that if Anakin had somehow fluked Dooku, he'd be promised amnesty. Do you think that he'd need to go all out?

Dooku > Anakin

Mace > Sidious

Then it's a matter of Mace vs Dooku, which would be a tough-ass fight.

Where does it say Dooku was going full out on Anakin? Why was Dooku trying to make Anakin use the Dark side?



Anakin makes a piss-poor Jedi.

Hasn't anyone noticed that the only way he killed Dooku, defeated Asajj and chopped off Maces hand was by giving into the Dark side?


I guess he was meant to be a whiney ass Sith after all.

Piss-poor Jedi...in comparison to all of his peers, which just happen to be the Order's greatest at the time.

Compared to a lesser Knight, Anakin probably looks like teh ub3r Frc3 G0tt!

Anakin just is a horrid Jedi. He made a better Sith. Anytime he defeated an opponent, he used Anger. Unless it was something like some small time droids or shit.

...

Yup.

Alot of Jedi used anger at the beginning of their career: Obi-Wan, Luke, Anakin...

Originally posted by Gamblor
Alot of Jedi used anger at the beginning of their career: Obi-Wan, Luke, Anakin...

Wow . . . You don't get it.


Who turned into a Sith Lord? Obi Wan? Luke?

Didn't think so.


Anakin was always the angry, whiney little bastard.

The only reason Anakin fell to the Dark Side was because he felt his wife was threatened and Palpy was working at him for 13 years. It wasn't because he was anymore "whiney" (I don't ever remember him whining during the third film) than anyone else.

Originally posted by Gamblor
The only reason Anakin fell to the Dark Side was because he felt his wife was threatened and Palpy was working at him for 13 years. It wasn't because he was anymore "whiney" (I don't ever remember him whining during the third film) than anyone else.


You don't remember Anakin whining?

What? How can you do this? This is outrageous, it's unfair. I'm more powerful than any of you. How can you be on the council and not be a master?




So anyways, either way Anakin would have turned to the Dark Side. He had to use anger to defeat Asajj, Kill Dooku, cut Mace's hand off, try to defeat Kenobi . . .


Not to mention he slaughtered a camp of Tusken Raiders. He was a wild and sporadic person and would have been flipped to the Dark side more than one way if his Wife wasn't an option.

What? How can you do this? This is outrageous, it's unfair. How can you be on the council and not be a master?

Forgot that part... yeah that is pretty damn whiny, but more impulsive than anything.

So anyways, either way Anakin would have turned to the Dark Side. He had to use anger to defeat Asajj, Kill Dooku, cut Mace's hand off, try to defeat Kenobi . . .

He was influenced by Palpatine for Dooku, he cut off Mace's hand for Padme, and was already a Sith Lord when fighting Kenobi. Haven't read or seen any of the Asajj fights.
He's easily manipulated, so he might have anyways.

Wow, we have a Palpatine/Anakin fanboy here.. You should consult lightsnake who slit his throat months ago because nobody agreed with his fanboy views.

If you don't have anything good to say, simply don't say anything at all. Unless of course calling other people "fanboys" makes you feel all warm inside.

Sorry if reality offends you.

It's not offending me. I'm not the one who lowered himself to namecalling here

Me calling you a fanboy is called reality, not an insult nor namecalling.

Since you're the one who's been cockriding other people's arguments and statements, your perception on "reality" is not fairly accurate.

Except it is, and my man GL says so, try again.

What? I already yielded the saber fight argument, if that's what you're talking about.

No you didn't you said Palpatine was faking right after the saber fight, which is still inaccurate.

He was faking with the lightning. He faked being too weak. If that's what you're referring to.

No, that's where you are wrong and don't understand. He wasn't faking with the lightning. After his initial attempt failed, that's when Anakin came in and he played weak. Before that he would have been killed by Mace.

First of all, Anakin comes into the room when Mace disarms Sidious. At that exact moment. Then he zaps Mace, and he resists with the saber. He only stops blasting when he played weak, which you just admitted.

Omg you still don't get it. His first blast was full force, he was trying to take out Mace. When that failed and Mace was effectively blocking it back, he started complaining and pretending to be weak.

Reading comprehension FTW!

Now, where in my post did I say he wasn't going all out with the Lightning initially? Read it again. Slowly. And you might understand.

No, I won't hear any more of your lousy excuses. It was damn whiney. That's the bottom line.



We are not talking about the reason for the fights. That's damn irrelevant.

We are talking about his little fits.

Dooku crushes Kenobi. Anakin gets all mad and kills Dooku.

Mace attempts to kill Palpatine. Anakin screams like a ***** and severs off a JEDI MASTERs hand.

Anakin gets into a hissy fit and attempts to attack Kenobi. Attempt fails, Anakin loses three limbs.

Anakins Mother dies. Anakin tweaks and kills Male, Female and Infant Tusken Raiders.

Anakin and Asajj duel. Asajj begins to gain the upper hand in the battle. Anakin loses it and smashes Asajj into the ground and off of a cliff.


"It's because of Padme, It's because of the Jedi betrayal, blah blah blah"


No, It's because of Anakins gullibility, stupidity and anger problem.

In all those situations, he could have done something Jedi-like about it.


He hasn't won any significant battles without getting angry. He *HAS* to get mad to win, or else he'll end up dying.


Oh, I forgot to mention the AotC battle with Dooku. He freaks out there too.

Originally posted by Gamblor
Please tdtd, when did Lucas clearly state this? Saying "overpower" does that mean Sidious was going all out in the saber duel.

And haven't any of you seen the Clone Wars? Dooku drove Mace away with little to no effort on Boz Pity.

Here's one for starters about Palpatine not going all out, if you look before that you also stated that Palpatine was faking with the force lightning.

Now Sidious faked the Lightning?

Ah C'mon! This is just fanboy bullshit now!


Palpatine went nuts and blasted Mace with Lightning. Mace deflected it and Sidious saw that he failed to defeat Mace in Lightsaber combat and failed to get him using the Force so then he threw himself into Drama mode and took it off from there. That makes more logical sense than any of your fanboy sharades.

Lord sorgo that's exactly what happened, Glamor doesn't want to admit it

Here's one for starters about Palpatine not going all out, if you look before that you also stated that Palpatine was faking with the force lightning.

Stated before I actually heard the commentary.

Now Sidious faked the Lightning?

Notice how I never said that in my post. Seriously, reading isn't so hard.

Originally posted by Gamblor
He was faking with the lightning. He faked being too weak. If that's what you're referring to.

Maybe you should enhance your reading comprehension skills.

He DID fake being too weak!

And I never specified that "the lightning" in my post means the initial attempt right the duel. I was referring to the part where he begs weak at the end. Sorry if it wasn't more clear. Too late to edit it now

ok that's better then.

Sidious killed Mace, did you see ROTS?

He was in such a hurry that the frame before he told the droids not to kill any Jedi cause he was gonna do that. Changed his mind real quick when Mace attacked him, didn't he?

That's different. Sidious didn't know whether he'd be able to beat Yoda or not and was not willing to risk everything he'd been trying to gain for several decades just to lose it in a fight. Dooku, on the other hand, wanted to fight and kill Mace but soon into the fight decided that he didn't want to fight Mace after all. Cause he was losing.


And Yoda failed to stop Dooku from escaping twice.


He couldn't do it again, I have provided not one but two sources of addiquate EU canon, one which you seem to have ignored.



Whatever.

exactly, whatver

Oh, let me explain that again more accurately.


Anakin sliced Mace's hand off after two seconds of screaming in which Mace decided to ignore. Mace didn't see it coming and then Sidious launched him fifty feet out of a Window, pwning him.


^ Better?




What frame? Dooku order Grievous, Asajj and the Droids to keep the Jedi preoccupied so he could bust a move.

Him and Mace where on par during the entire duel, Darthsith19. Don't bullshit.





You have piss poor reading comprehension if you thought Dooku was losing. That's complete bullshit. They were ON PAR. No advantages took place. Dooku just decided to halt the fight because he either didn't have time or did not wish to risk everything he had.




Same with Dooku. Dooku didn't want to risk everything he had either. He had Money up to his neck, he had the whole Confederation in his hands and was negotiating several deals to add power to the CIS. Yeah, he really wanted to f*ck everything up over a duel. Sorry, that's not how Sith work, DS19.






And Mace failed to stop two MagnaGuards.




No, you've provided sources that are still arguably non-canon and in both of those sources, Mace has not proven to defeat Dooku.

I've provided a source showing how Dooku bested Mace.






Nice Reply.

Still, to say Anakin six months after AOTC could beat Mace is bs.

Did you even read the comic? He tells the droids to Find Asajj and Grievous, but to leave the Jedi to him. That's what he says, I'm not lying, if you think I am ask anyone else who has read the comic.

Well, it's hard to say as it was a comic and we only saw it in the frames, we didn't actually see them moving. But read the dialogue. I returned the comic to the library a couple of weeks ago, but Dooku says things like "You won't kill me, Mace" as if Mace could if he wanted to, and Mace says things like "You think these droids are gonna stop me?" Like he's about to kick Dooku's ass and Dooku knows it. Why else would Dooku say "Leave the Jedi to me" and then suddenly change his mind and say "The droids will stop you long enough for me to escape" and then run away, telling the Magnaguard to shoot Asajj since she'll never make it to them in time. Went from wanting to kill Jedi toi being in a big hurry real quick, huh?

No tume, which is why a few frames before he told the Magnaguards to let him deal with the Jedi? Didn't want to rick everything he had, huh? Like what, he was losing the war, he didn't have any more to lose than Mace did and you didn't see Mace running.

I'll try it again. Sidious didn't know he was stronger than Yoda. After they fought it turned out that he was stronger. Dooku only realised that he was weaker after they fought. Meaning he thought he was stronger before they fought. Otherwise why would he fight Mace? And sorry, Sidious had far more to lose than Dooku did, the whole Confederacy under hius hands, yeah, and if he died so what, either way the Confederacy was losing badly.

Read the comic again. Mace came out alive, the magnaguards did not.

Yes, you showed a source that showed Dooku bested Mace once before TPM, I've provided sources straight from Lucas. And for the last time, don't hang out in an EU form if you don't consider EU canon.


Well, I could see there was no getting through to you, so, your more canon than Nick Gillard.

Anakin and Mace take this one. Anakin has already beaten Dooku, and Mace has beaten Sidious. And by palps own admission, Anakin would have become more powerful than him , so he knew that Anakin could possibly beat him. NOTICE I SAID POSSIBLY. dont wanna hear"yoda couldnt even beat him..blah blah blah" I know that..but anakin could have slice palps up in that hallway when he learned who he was. palps wouldnt have seen it coming.