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who's taking it?

this is a cool fight. i have no idea whod win though. heihachi is my favourite tekken character, and there are numerous versions of the shredder so its hard to say. even the 80s catroon shredder was skilled, although his abilities fluctuated alot. one episode he can take on 3 of the turtles for extended periods, other eps hes taken out by one of them as though hes just a random criminal.

in the original comic he was a highly skilled martial artist and i think this is the version that would be omst effective against heihachi. in the new cartoon hes fairly dangerous, but uses a mechanical exosuit, which while stronger than a human doesnt seem to be as strong and durable as a jack robot, which heihachi can be seen taking out many times over in the opening of tekken 5.

original comic shredder id say have maybe a 50/50 chance, all the others are significantly lower.

Heihachi survived a giant explosion in Tekken 5...I say he takes this sucka out

the mishima dynasty is almost imortall and heihachi is the more invurrable thats what effect the devl gene had on him so id say he takes this

explosion smexplosion...

against human shredder from original cartoons, and movie shredder, and.. heihachi wins.

any other shredder, he gets curbstomped.

i mean... old video game shredder could just turn into super shredder and he had all sorts of crazy powers.

old comic shredder was better than the 4 turtles combined who took on and beat all sorts of outworldy opponents and were battle nexs champions.

new shredder has super strength, agility, speed, reflexes, 500 years of experience, and is super durable.. he's survived several explosions with and without his exoskeleton...

TMNT expert here guys respect jinzin iv never seen anyone with that much TMNT knowledge

Well Heihachi survived not only explosion but also flight for couple of miles after it.

Well i say Shred takes this, he is a bad ass

Heihachi is a badass as well.

old comic shredder has a good chance, old game shredder would probably win with his freaky powers, but i dont think new cartoon shredder could defeat heihachi. although he is durable, he was never crazy skilled like bishop was when he took on all 4 turtles, casey, april, leatherhead and splinter.

he relies fairly heavily on his durability, which as good as it is, has been pierced by swords and other melee, and even had its head severed by one. so hes not as durable as one might initially think. so going by this, and the fact that heihachi can destroy a jack robot, which is bigger and possibly more durable than shredders suit.

so he has the power to damage shredder without too much trouble. and with his major advantage removed i dont think shredder could win. hed put up a decent fight, but in the end his suit would be destroyed and hed have to flee or die.

Originally posted by Decay
old comic shredder has a good chance, old game shredder would probably win with his freaky powers, but i dont think new cartoon shredder could defeat heihachi. although he is durable, he was never crazy skilled like bishop was when he took on all 4 turtles, casey, april, leatherhead and splinter.

he relies fairly heavily on his durability, which as good as it is, has been pierced by swords and other melee, and even had its head severed by one. so hes not as durable as one might initially think. so going by this, and the fact that heihachi can destroy a jack robot, which is bigger and possibly more durable than shredders suit.

so he has the power to damage shredder without too much trouble. and with his major advantage removed i dont think shredder could win. hed put up a decent fight, but in the end his suit would be destroyed and hed have to flee or die.

actually the new toon shredder has one weakness. and that's his vanity... if you were attentive enough to notice, the turtles always beat shredder when he becomes over confident or his focus is lost upon other things... the turtles have also had to resort to beating him using plot devices on nearly every occasion. Even when his head was severed as you pointed out, his head was severed by the sword of tengu

- (for those that aren't aware, the sowrd of tengu is shredder's power sword, with it, he was capable of crushing entire samurai armies and restored leadership to the daimyo of the tokugawa dynasty, it's like he man's power sword and is more powerful than all of the elements of earth.)

.. so that's hardly a fair example. And while he has been cut by the likes of the turtles weapons, you have to realize that the turtles have such pinpoint accurate with their weapons that they're able to penetrate things regular people could not. Primary example of this is when leo chopped a helicopter in half with a couple slashes of his sword.

We obviously know that shredder's armor is superior to any on earth as it's survived numerous explosions and infernos, AND a battle with a triceriton (10 to 15 tons lifter at LEAST). Aside from that he took a fall off a 20 story building and had literally tons of debris and water fall on top of him, the armor still didn't have a dent in it...

then consider the fact that every time the shredder's had to fight the turtles h2h he's kicked the crap out of them... hell he did it even without his armor in final countdown.. and that was after his alien body had been shot in the face with arrows...

remember there's a lot about bishop we still don't know, and even more evidence suggest that he's well more than a human (no human is going to stand up to the 4 elite foot like he did, not with their creepy powers). So using him as a statute of comparison is a moot point, especially since we never see him directly fight the shredder either.

And finally shredder's skill and knowledge on the battlefield is older than 500 years in experience, H simply doesn't have that...

couple all this with the superhuman strength, speed, agility, and endless endurance that the exosuit gives shredder and it's going to be an uphill battle for H imho....


Also: one final note is that the new turtles have been said in multiple interviews to be on par with the old comic versions.. this would seem certainly true after the battle nexus fiasco, and in the old comics the turtles simultaneously fought off hundreds of foot and foot elite and gangs AND an entire swat team (guns blazing) in a tmnt vs. the world street war. don't know if H is on par with that.. but shredder certainly was.

In Tekken 1 Kazuya dropped Heihachi into volcano.
I have no idea how the hell he survived but that was tough.

shredder laughs in the face of infernos... MWAHAHAHAHAHA!













even without his head...

I read agent bishop's body was enhanced by aliens during the civil war on wikipedia

Heihachi is taking this!! He got no actual special skills, but he is strong...

Heihachi. Shredder's body is just a friggin robot manned by a small alien. If heihachi manages to punchure his chest region(considering how well he does against an army of Jack 5's before getting caught in their self-destruct), he'd kill the little guy.

that is unless of course if that little alien also has shredder's durability.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Heihachi. Shredder's body is just a friggin robot manned by a small alien. If heihachi manages to punchure his chest region(considering how well he does against an army of Jack 5's before getting caught in their self-destruct), he'd kill the little guy.

that is unless of course if that little alien also has shredder's durability.

You must be thinking of someone else.

But i agree with you. Heihachi wins.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Heihachi. Shredder's body is just a friggin robot manned by a small alien. If heihachi manages to punchure his chest region(considering how well he does against an army of Jack 5's before getting caught in their self-destruct), he'd kill the little guy.

that is unless of course if that little alien also has shredder's durability.

dude.. the alien has been hit in the face with multiple arrows.. and in turn he kicked the crap out of his assailents for their troubles...

it's not like he's a damned jack robot either I wish people would stop comparing him to such... could H take on half the aliens in the battle nexus tournement? I think he'd be rather hard pressed to do so myself... the turtles are champions of the tournement and shredder is better than all of them combined...

I wonder if Heihachi could take 4 turtles on his own.

Originally posted by jinzin
dude.. the alien has been hit in the face with multiple arrows.. and in turn he kicked the crap out of his assailents for their troubles...

it's not like he's a damned jack robot either I wish people would stop comparing him to such... could H take on half the aliens in the battle nexus tournement? I think he'd be rather hard pressed to do so myself... the turtles are champions of the tournement and shredder is better than all of them combined...

It's true, but multiple arrows is << than what heihachi could do. We're talking about a guy who can compete with Paul phoenix brick basher feats and takes can take on multiple jacks (well... what mishima couldn't anyway). And i'm only comparing him to jack because of his armor and not his actual skills.

And other than that, what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone....w/o pis or plot device that is.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It's true, but multiple arrows is << than what heihachi could do. We're talking about a guy who can compete with Paul phoenix brick basher feats and takes can take on multiple jacks (well... what mishima couldn't anyway). And i'm only comparing him to jack because of his armor and not his actual skills.

And other than that, what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone....w/o pis or plot device that is.

shredder stabs H fight takes an entirely different turn... it's not all about durability...

again shredder is on par with all four turtles, casey jones, splinter, and a triceraton... the four turtles alone were able to beat an army of the cyber foot soldiers so that's my comparison for your jack robot example...

when shredder got arrows in the face, it WAS without his armor.. all he had was his exosuit and he was still kicking muliple turtle ass all over the place,

hell even without his exosuit "the lil guy" started to suffocate raph before being pried off raphs face and thrown into a builing leveling explosion.

Originally posted by jinzin
shredder stabs H fight takes an entirely different turn... it's not all about durability...

it causes wounds, nothing heihachi has ever frowned upon. Guy got thrown into a large ravine, survived getting pounded by devil and devil jin, etc.

Originally posted by jinzin
again shredder is on par with all four turtles, casey jones, splinter, and a triceraton... the four turtles alone were able to beat an army of the cyber foot soldiers so that's my comparison for your jack robot example...

Leonardo defeated him

Originally posted by jinzin
when shredder got arrows in the face, it WAS without his armor.. all he had was his exosuit and he was still kicking muliple turtle ass all over the place,

I didn't say i was talking about him in armor. I read your statement clear and posted about the alien getting hit like that. Like i said also, Heihachi's punch >>> any arrow. And w/o his exosuit, can he also replicate that feat? If i'm not mistaken, all he does most of the time it happens is evade the turtles and ran away.

Originally posted by jinzin
hell even without his exosuit "the lil guy" started to suffocate raph before being pried off raphs face and thrown into a builing leveling explosion.

Suffocate won't really do much to heihachi. If he does that, Heihachi could just use his Mishima technique to conduct electricity to his body for the use of his strikes. It's gonna also take someone in direct contact with him if that happens.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
it causes wounds, nothing heihachi has ever frowned upon. Guy got thrown into a large ravine, survived getting pounded by devil and devil jin, etc.
brute force is not the same as being sliced to ribbons...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Leonardo defeated him with the sword of tengu.. yawn



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I didn't say i was talking about him in armor. I read your statement clear and posted about the alien getting hit like that. Like i said also, Heihachi's punch >>> any arrow. And w/o his exosuit, can he also replicate that feat?

wouldn't he need his exosuit to replicate Martial arts hence replicate the feat in question?

unless you mean surviving the arrows in the face... then yes...
also why would he have to? this isn't utrom without armor and exo vs. H so it really doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
If i'm not mistaken, all he does most of the time it happens is evade the turtles and ran away.

well you are mistaken, utrom shredhead usually takes the initiatie and it's the turtles who get put on the run, he officially creeps them out, and has only been defeated through plot devices out the ass...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Suffocate won't really do much to heihachi. If he does that, Heihachi could just use his Mishima technique to conduct electricity to his body for the use of his strikes. It's gonna also take someone in direct contact with him if that happens. I'm not saying it would you said this """what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone"""".. I gave you a feat that proved you wrong.. simple as.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmm..........right...i cant say who wins...honest...

Hihatchis gonna win

Hihatchi will win

lol.. how can shredder fight against some old bastard who refuses to stay dead... *flashback to cinema of T5*

"Heihachi Mishima... is dead..."

Me : ... yeah right...

*cinematic of heihachi flying through the air, landing in a grave where he lays there for several weeks... then gets up and walks away*

Me : *faith in fighting games drops 30 points*

yeah....
me:......draw.....

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
lol.. how can shredder fight against some old bastard who refuses to stay dead... *flashback to cinema of T5*

"Heihachi Mishima... is dead..."

Me : ... yeah right...

*cinematic of heihachi flying through the air, landing in a grave where he lays there for several weeks... then gets up and walks away*

Me : *faith in fighting games drops 30 points*

Originally posted by jinzin
brute force is not the same as being sliced to ribbons...

Since when does getting thrown into ravine, surviving a scorching C4 blast just brute force?

Originally posted by jinzin
with the sword of tengu.. yawn

which isn't a standard equipment for him death


Originally posted by jinzin
wouldn't he need his exosuit to replicate Martial arts hence replicate the feat in question?

unless you mean surviving the arrows in the face... then yes...
also why would he have to? this isn't utrom without armor and exo vs. H so it really doesn't matter.yawn

What are you smokin man? Did i say anything about replicating Martial arts? I'm saying that without the exo suit he's basically almost defenseless against Heihachi.

Originally posted by jinzin
well you are mistaken, utrom shredhead usually takes the initiatie and it's the turtles who get put on the run, he officially creeps them out, and has only been defeated through plot devices out the ass...


No, i'm not not. And how many times has he been actually defeated by the turtles? Once again, He got pwned by Leonardo who is obviously not equal to old man heihachi here. If it wasn't for the fact Leo didn't know then that the utrom didn't reside on the head, he could've killed Shredder by himself.

Originally posted by jinzin I'm not saying it would you said this """what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone"""".. I gave you a feat that proved you wrong.. simple as.

If every debate can end like the way you are implying, then it's no use debating.

Go ahead, tell me other feats the utrom shredder had besides taking arrows to the face with his exo. You know, arrows requires force to pierce. Even granted Shredder has a tough face skin, he's not facing just any regular archer here.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Since when does getting thrown into ravine, surviving a scorching C4 blast just brute force?
concusive force, brute force... niether the same as being cut to ribbons, having appendages chopped off. etc etc...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
which isn't a standard equipment for him death
for leo absolutely not, so why did you insist on bringing it up?




Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What are you smokin man? Did i say anything about replicating Martial arts? I'm saying that without the exo suit he's basically almost defenseless against Heihachi.
are you seriously that dense?

you asked if he could reproduce the same feat (In which he used martial arts) without his exo... he can't replicate MA without his exo so it goes without saying that he can't reproduce the feat.. but again.. you resort to a "well if he didn't have this and if he didn't have that he wouldn't win" argument and that argument doesn't matter here... fact is no where in this thread is it even implied he wouldn't have his exo, or armor, or sword which are ALL standard equiptement for shredder.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
No, i'm not not. And how many times has he been actually defeated by the turtles?

without plot devices to help the turtles in abundance? NEVER....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Once again, He got pwned by Leonardo who is obviously not equal to old man heihachi here. If it wasn't for the fact Leo didn't know then that the utrom didn't reside on the head, he could've killed Shredder by himself..
(you're really bad at ollowing trains of thought aren't you?)

and once again, he was defeated by leo who was using the sword of tengu... your point is moot...


Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Go ahead, tell me other feats the utrom shredder had besides taking arrows to the face with his exo. You know, arrows requires force to pierce. Even granted Shredder has a tough face skin, he's not facing just any regular archer here.

you asked for feats I gave them to you... and again he's not without his armor here so why keep insisting that he would be?

Originally posted by jinzin
concusive force, brute force... niether the same as being cut to ribbons, having appendages chopped off. etc etc...

Yeah, cut to ribbons....and i suppose the utron stood getting hit with a katana too?

And i hardly call getting caught by a c4 class explosion just brute force and neither does getting thrown into a ravine.........unless of course that ravine is smooth.

Originally posted by jinzin
for leo absolutely not, so why did you insist on bringing it up?

Is that too hard to figure. Cause he's inferior, that's why

Originally posted by jinzin
are you seriously that dense?

What's the matter getting frustrated and resulting to insults?

Originally posted by jinzin
you asked if he could reproduce the same feat (In which he used martial arts) without his exo... he can't replicate MA without his exo so it goes without saying that he can't reproduce the feat.. but again.. you resort to a "well if he didn't have this and if he didn't have that he wouldn't win" argument and that argument doesn't matter here... fact is no where in this thread is it even implied he wouldn't have his exo, or armor, or sword which are ALL standard equiptement for shredder.

Here we are again not reading the posts. When did i say anything about replicating Martial arts skill. I said feats and not skill such as his durability. And before you try to twist logic again, it was comment against the utron and him in the shredder armor.


Originally posted by jinzin
without plot devices to help the turtles in abundance? NEVER....

Which Shredder also has in abundance in the first place

Originally posted by jinzin
(you're really bad at ollowing trains of thought aren't you?)

and once again, he was defeated by leo who was using the sword of tengu... your point is moot...

Blah, blah, blah...

The sword of tengu's power didn't decapitate shredder. IIRC they went melee, something the sword doesn't grant you extra powers with. The only reason shredder survive is that leonardo didn't use the sword where the utron is and instead the head.

Originally posted by jinzin
you asked for feats I gave them to you... and again he's not without his armor here so why keep insisting that he would be?

And then i asked for more....which you can't give btw.

Also, did i say anything about him not being in his armor. If your argument pertains to the discussions about the utron, i recall saying/implying that Heihachi could take his armor out from the midsection and rip the utron there.

while its true that the utrom shredder did have arrows shot into his stomach, its impossible to tell exactly where on his body they imacted and how deep they penitrated. they could have hit his tenticles, or gone about a centrement into his skin. or even gone into his mouth and grased his toungue while causing no real damage. he was shot in the stomach, where the utrom resides, but thats as far as we know. it could be a huge feat with the arrow almost impaling him, but it could be a simple stratch with no real significance to his durability.

the only reason i think jack robots are brought up is their durability, becuase heihachi defeated them does not mean he could defeat he shredder, but it does mean he has the ability to damage him without a great deal of trouble.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Yeah, cut to ribbons....and i suppose the utron stood getting hit with a katana too?
shredder has taken quite a bit of imalings and slashes (with armor on) but seeing how H doesn't have a katana and shredder DOES have blades, I don't see how this matters....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And i hardly call getting caught by a c4 class explosion just brute force how about concussive force?....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
and neither does getting thrown into a ravine.........unless of course that ravine is smooth. more of the same.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Is that too hard to figure. Cause he's inferior, that's why. I know he's inferior.. that's my argument.. you've been trying to support that he can bring shredder down all by his lonesome...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What's the matter getting frustrated and resulting to insults?

honestly? yes and yes... your total lack of ability to follow a simple damn train of thought is aggrivating as all hell...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Here we are again not reading the posts. When did i say anything about replicating Martial arts skill. I said feats and not skill such as his durability. And before you try to twist logic again, it was comment against the utron and him in the shredder armor.

you must have a comprehension problem too... again.. the feats you asked him to replicate require martial arts.. he can't do martial arts without his exo.. is that really so hard to figure out?

You should specify which kind of feats first next time then... i have already given multiple feats of durability... I'm not twisting anything you just can't keep your shit straight.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Which Shredder also has in abundance in the first place
not when he's going h2h with the turtles... not on average.. unless you consider his exo, and armor plot devices...




Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Blah, blah, blah...
yep that's just about all you've been saying in this thread.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
The sword of tengu's power didn't decapitate shredder. IIRC they went melee, something the sword doesn't grant you extra powers with. The only reason shredder survive is that leonardo didn't use the sword where the utron is and instead the head.
I suppose you know exactly what the sword does and doesn't do then? in spite of it still being mysterious in the series...



let's look at the facts.. every time shredder throws down with the turtles he kickes their collective ass... the one time he gets beat in a h2h fight is when leo has the sword of tengu which has outwordly powers yet to be explained..... and until they are.. leo hasn't beaten shredder 1on1 without a plot device in his favor.. something you also neglected was the fact that the sword gives a psychological advantage which can be everything in a fight.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And then i asked for more....which you can't give btw.

well for one shredder's not shown outside of his exo all that much limiting the feats to give...

two he's been shown to survive the vacuum and cold of outerspace..

and three why the hell should I give any more? this thread has nothing to do with shredder without his suit, it's like if I asked you to give me feats of H without his arms and legs.. not only are you gonna have trouble finding some, but even if you did they would be pretty much moot for this debate seeing as he'll have his arms and legs in this fight... pffft.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Also, did i say anything about him not being in his armor. If your argument pertains to the discussions about the utron, i recall saying/implying that Heihachi could take his armor out from the midsection and rip the utron there.

I was simply giving info out there for those who were unaware....
H "MAY" be able to do that.. but it's just as simple for shredder to gut him silly..

Originally posted by jinzin
shredder has taken quite a bit of imalings and slashes (with armor on) but seeing how H doesn't have a katana and shredder DOES have blades, I don't see how this matters....

impalings and slashes that wasn't in the area the utron is. Heihachi doesn't need a Katana cause Tekken fighters are far superior even without. The only thing that came close were arrows that were probably stripped of their piercing force from the armor.

Originally posted by jinzin
how about concussive force?....

Or the flames..

Originally posted by jinzin
more of the same.

*Yawn* That's what i've telling you about your posts

Originally posted by jinzin
I know he's inferior.. that's my argument.. you've been trying to support that he can bring shredder down all by his lonesome...

you really think that statement pertains to Heihachi. And yes, heihachi can and will take him down by his lonesome

Originally posted by jinzin
honestly? yes and yes... your total lack of ability to follow a simple damn train of thought is aggrivating as all hell...

It's alright, you don't have pretend being able to comprehend it...

Originally posted by jinzin
you must have a comprehension problem too... again.. the feats you asked him to replicate require martial arts.. he can't do martial arts without his exo.. is that really so hard to figure out?

You should specify which kind of feats first next time then... i have already given multiple feats of durability... I'm not twisting anything you just can't keep your shit straight.

Did you even read the post. Funny blindspot you have there only seeing what you want to see. MA necessary for Durability? Bullshit.

And yes, W/o the exo, he's basically helpless. You seem to help the argument against him even more trying to defend him.

Originally posted by jinzin
not when he's going h2h with the turtles... not on average.. unless you consider his exo, and armor plot devices...

It happened and the turtles are a several notches below Heihachi.

Originally posted by jinzin
yep that's just about all you've been saying in this thread.

Probably cause that's what you deserve...

Originally posted by jinzin
I suppose you know exactly what the sword does and doesn't do then? in spite of it still being mysterious in the series...

Here we go. Keep on exaggerating. The ol' mysterious so untouchable logic.

Originally posted by jinzin
let's look at the facts.. every time shredder throws down with the turtles he kickes their collective ass... the one time he gets beat in a h2h fight is when leo has the sword of tengu which has outwordly powers yet to be explained..... and until they are.. leo hasn't beaten shredder 1on1 without a plot device in his favor.. something you also neglected was the fact that the sword gives a psychological advantage which can be everything in a fight.

Psychological advantage

mysterious, psychological advantage, well that's 2 seriously flawed argument already...


Originally posted by jinzin
well for one shredder's not shown outside of his exo all that much limiting the feats to give...

Of course he isn't. And the time that he did, the only thing he tries to do is escape.

Originally posted by jinzin
two he's been shown to survive the vacuum and cold of outerspace..

And that's relevant here how?

Originally posted by jinzin
and three why the hell should I give any more? this thread has nothing to do with shredder without his suit, it's like if I asked you to give me feats of H without his arms and legs.. not only are you gonna have trouble finding some, but even if you did they would be pretty much moot for this debate seeing as he'll have his arms and legs in this fight... pffft.

If Heihachi ripped the utron from Shredder's abdomen, does this thread still has nothing to do with him not being on his suit? Your analogy is flawed simply because the shredder armor isn't invincible and the shredder being just an exo-skeleton being his weakness still stands.

Originally posted by jinzin
I was simply giving info out there for those who were unaware....
H "MAY" be able to do that.. but it's just as simple for shredder to gut him silly..

Tekken feats

1 http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/b/tek3bry.htm

2 http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/a/tekpaul.htm

3 http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/psx/a/tek2paul.htm

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
impalings and slashes that wasn't in the area the utron is. Heihachi doesn't need a Katana cause Tekken fighters are far superior even without. The only thing that came close were arrows that were probably stripped of their piercing force from the armor.
this proves you're talking out your ass here... TMNT have such precision that they can pierce the armor when nothing else can... even then they didn't get but an inch or two deep into the armor before their momentum stopped...

and the arrow was in that face, if you knew anything about utrom shredder, you would know that the utrom exo doesn't cover the lil guy in the stomach area....




Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Or the flames..
seeing as he was set aflame after the initial explosion.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
you really think that statement pertains to Heihachi. And yes, heihachi can and will take him down by his lonesome..
lol.. trains of thought.. try to keep up... you were arguing for leonardo in this part of the debate remember.. how it pretains to H? I don't know you're the one who brought it up....



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
it's alright, you don't have pretend being able to comprehend it...
actually I can comprehend that you can't follow trains of thought just fine... hell you just proved me right above.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Did you even read the post. Funny blindspot you have there only seeing what you want to see. MA necessary for Durability? Bullshit.
TRAINS OF THOUGHT...

KEEP UP...

it's necessary to produce an MA feat which is what you asked if he could do without his suit....


Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And yes, W/o the exo, he's basically helpless. You seem to help the argument against him even more trying to defend him.
HE HAS HIS ARMOR. so your point is null and void.. but his near victory over rapheal out of his armor and his reputation as the most dangerous criminal in the universe certainly would lead one to believe that "helpless" probably isn't a word to describe him....



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It happened and the turtles are a several notches below Heihachi.

It happened when LEO had the sword of tengu EVERY other time they've tried to tengo with shred head on he's kicked their collective ass.. and as far as being several notches below... why because you say so?
these guys are EACH battle nexus champions.. they've simultaneously fought off an entire swat team and foot army singlehandedly , they take down dinosaurs with single blows, splinter KOed a dragon using ONE friggin leg and he's not even boasting the super strength/reflexes the turtles have... you're seriously underestimating these guys...


Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Here we go. Keep on exaggerating. The ol' mysterious so untouchable logic.

the facts are simple...
LEO only EVER beat shred h2h when he had the sword of tengu... every other time he's been beaten down rather handily...

you think the sword didn't make a difference I say the fact that that was the ONLY time shredder had someone get the better of him in h2h DOES make it make a difference... whether it was psychological or due to the ARMY OBLITERATING powers that the sword is said t possess as yet to be documented...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Psychological advantage

I'm taking a wild guess and coming to the conclussion you know just as much about fighting as you do the tmnt don't you? no


Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Of course he isn't. And the time that he did, the only thing he tries to do is escape.

do you ever get tired of making an asshat out of yourself... Ironically the one time he was completely on his own and out of the suit he almost killed rapheal and then it was the turtles that ran to get out of the impending explosion....



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And that's relevant here how?
I was obliging your request.. you tell me how it's relivant... you asked for durability feats.. his body can survive the vacuum of space indefinitely.... that's a feat jeesh.. FOLLOW ALONG....



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
If Heihachi ripped the utron from Shredder's abdomen, does this thread still has nothing to do with him not being on his suit? Your analogy is flawed simply because the shredder armor isn't invincible and the shredder being just an exo-skeleton being his weakness still stands.

How the hell is H going to know that shredder's an utrom? hell not even his closest henchmen knew he was an utrom until he took off earth to go get his vengeance on the utron race.

the possibility of H ripping him out from his exo are WAAAY slimmer than H being gutted by shredhead....

(At this point I would also like to adress that the shredder armor as been seen taking lasers at close range and having them simply deflect off him.)

and no my argument isn't flawed.. shredder being invincible IS NEVER an argument I've tried to make here.... and him being covered in armor in an exo suit is way less a weakness than having guts in this case... again.. shredder wins.
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged


right back atcha

H will heave a heart attack mid fight, like in T5 when I faught him as...that black guy. All the arguing really is usless...

Originally posted by jinzin
this proves you're talking out your ass here... TMNT have such precision that they can pierce the armor when nothing else can... even then they didn't get but an inch or two deep into the armor before their momentum stopped...

Can you guys spell BULLSHIT? Not only is it bullshit but also irrelevant considering the difference between Heihachi and the turtles in terms of physical stats and the damage they can inflict.

Originally posted by jinzin
and the arrow was in that face, if you knew anything about utrom shredder, you would know that the utrom exo doesn't cover the lil guy in the stomach area....

Riiiiiiiight



Originally posted by jinzin
seeing as he was set aflame after the initial explosion.

And the burns....

Originally posted by jinzin
lol.. trains of thought.. try to keep up... you were arguing for leonardo in this part of the debate remember.. how it pretains to H? I don't know you're the one who brought it up....

actually I can comprehend that you can't follow trains of thought just fine... hell you just proved me right above.


Trains of thought? what trains of thought? You mean those irrelevant facts that you have been blurting out? pffft

Originally posted by jinzin
TRAINS OF THOUGHT...

KEEP UP...

it's necessary to produce an MA feat which is what you asked if he could do without his suit....

=shit

Why would you need to produce information about something remotely different from the one that i was talking about?

Originally posted by jinzin
HE HAS HIS ARMOR. so your point is null and void.. but his near victory over rapheal out of his armor and his reputation as the most dangerous criminal in the universe certainly would lead one to believe that "helpless" probably isn't a word to describe him....

And did i say anything about him not having the armor? Near victory

And btw, raphael <<< Heihachi

Originally posted by jinzin
It happened when LEO had the sword of tengu EVERY other time they've tried to tengo with shred head on he's kicked their collective ass.. and as far as being several notches below... why because you say so?
these guys are EACH battle nexus champions.. they've simultaneously fought off an entire swat team and foot army singlehandedly , they take down dinosaurs with single blows, splinter KOed a dragon using ONE friggin leg and he's not even boasting the super strength/reflexes the turtles have... you're seriously underestimating these guys...

Once again, you accept simple facts. There is nothing to indicate the sword of Tengu does anything to empower Leonardo, to boost his skill or to even help him anywhere in melee combat. The only thing we've seen from it was blasting a concussive force emanating from it and nothing more.

SWAT TEAM <<< Heihachi
FOOT ARMY <<< Heihachi

But heck, not only that but they do it mostly with teamwork and solely.

The dragon is the only thing that remotely comes close but, one blow. Don't friggin kid me. And you seem to indicate even moreso a lack of logic by telling me he doesn't even have super strength/reflexes to do the job. If he doesn't have those, then tell me how he did it. The only only thing that would remotely be feasable enough to accept would be weak areas and that would amount more to skill rather than physical stats, something Tekken combatants overly exceeds them.


Originally posted by jinzin
the facts are simple...
LEO only EVER beat shred h2h when he had the sword of tengu... every other time he's been beaten down rather handily...

A loss is a loss and it happened. Not only that, but before Leo even manage to defeat him, Shredders lackeys always fight them first along with everytime they met. Then he comes in afterward often a grudgingly difficult battle they've fought. Read above on my posts telling you the Sword of Tengu doesn't help that much.

Originally posted by jinzin
you think the sword didn't make a difference I say the fact that that was the ONLY time shredder had someone get the better of him in h2h DOES make it make a difference... whether it was psychological or due to the ARMY OBLITERATING powers that the sword is said t possess as yet to be documented...

That what you say, and i don't really buy it considering the lack of proof.


Originally posted by jinzin
I'm taking a wild guess and coming to the conclussion you know just as much about fighting as you do the tmnt don't you? no

Actually i do know about them and watched their episodes before and wouldn't be debating this if i didn't. I could say the same thing for you regarding Tekken.

Originally posted by jinzin
do you ever get tired of making an asshat out of yourself... Ironically the one time he was completely on his own and out of the suit he almost killed rapheal and then it was the turtles that ran to get out of the impending explosion....

Asshat? how colorful....did you make it yourself?

Originally posted by jinzin
I was obliging your request.. you tell me how it's relivant... you asked for durability feats.. his body can survive the vacuum of space indefinitely.... that's a feat jeesh.. FOLLOW ALONG....

vaccum of space? that's the best you've got? Sheesh.

Well thank you for Obliging to my request then...

Originally posted by jinzin
How the hell is H going to know that shredder's an utrom? hell not even his closest henchmen knew he was an utrom until he took off earth to go get his vengeance on the utron race.

He doesn't. Considering the probability of a godfist to connect in Shredder midsection, that chances of him puncturing it and going all the way to Utron is almost pretty certain.

Originally posted by jinzin
the possibility of H ripping him out from his exo are WAAAY slimmer than H being gutted by shredhead....

Riiiight.

Originally posted by jinzin
(At this point I would also like to adress that the shredder armor as been seen taking lasers at close range and having them simply deflect off him.)

Very good. Now how does Laser and heat come into play here?

Originally posted by jinzin
and no my argument isn't flawed.. shredder being invincible IS NEVER an argument I've tried to make here.... and him being covered in armor in an exo suit is way less a weakness than having guts in this case... again.. shredder wins.

Really? his armor has been damaged before and has a weakness of being just an exo. I don't see why not.

Originally posted by jinzin
right back atcha

Whatever

If all you can do is roll your eyes, and ignore points than there's not much point in this endless drivle...

fact is:
- H IS a human, his HUMAN stamina puttered while fighting those jacks.... shredder has a big advantage in that his stamina is indefinite...

-all the "irrelevant" feats I've brough up can be traced back to you having requested them.

-you don't know anything about fighting if you can't grasp the importance of a psychological advantage..

-the sword of tengu does more than use concussive blasts, it nullified the elements and the magic they wield which is extremely powerful.

- the turtles have yet to beat shredder ONCE in h2h without the sword of tengu.

-splinter took down the dragon with a single kick.. using skill.. it's sad how unfamiliar you are with such matters.. it's not that big of a feat in tmnt-verse...

-Heihachi is 80 years old, and it was a miracle he survived any of the previously mentioned feats.. and even then he only just survived.. it didn't instantaniously walk away from either of those.

-h is not >>> an army of foot ninjas including foot elite.. sorry but that's the biggest load of bull you said yet.. every damn foot is said to be 12x that of the best trained cia, fbi, etc etc... elite foot are equivelent to 20 foot ninjas... shredder's>>>>> army of foot tech ninjas and cyber foot.. I can't possibly see how H even compares.. even though the jack robot battle was impressive he did have Kazuya's help...

Originally posted by jinzin
If all you can do is roll your eyes, and ignore points than there's not much point in this endless drivle...

fact is:
- H IS a human, his HUMAN stamina puttered while fighting those jacks.... shredder has a big advantage in that his stamina is indefinite...

The first fact you've mentioned and it's already flawed. He is human, but that's funny that you're actually comparing him to one. Tekken's reality hardly adheres to common logic just like most universes. It isn't that hard to accept a human has a high metahuman stats considering it's feasable to attain in their universe just like many others.


Originally posted by jinzin
-all the "irrelevant" feats I've brough up can be traced back to you having requested them.

See there, it isn't that hard to accept it's irrelevant, is it?

Originally posted by jinzin
-you don't know anything about fighting if you can't grasp the importance of a psychological advantage..

. You can lecture me about pyschological factors in this match when you hold a degree in such an occupation.

Originally posted by jinzin
-the sword of tengu does more than use concussive blasts, it nullified the elements and the magic they wield which is extremely powerful.

Let's see here, Where can i classify Shredder's armor, Earth? Wind? Water? Fire? Sounds like it doesn't fit anywhere in those elements does it........or perhaps Magic? Let me think for a minute what kind of magic does his armor possess..........................................................Sorry can't picture it magical as well.

Originally posted by jinzin
- the turtles have yet to beat shredder ONCE in h2h without the sword of tengu.

And the turtles have yet to encounter Shredder by his lonesome without having to worry about Shredder's footsoldiers and bodyguards and encountering them beforehand. Sounds to me the turtles aren't anywhere Fresh everytime they face him.

But does it matter considering Heihachi > Turtles

Originally posted by jinzin
-splinter took down the dragon with a single kick.. using skill.. it's sad how unfamiliar you are with such matters.. it's not that big of a feat in tmnt-verse...

Oh boy, first the psychologist and now.......a martial artist

I can't help but laugh at that. Not a big feat?......hahahahaha.

But I won't delve to that any further since you've contradicted from the previous post.

Originally posted by jinzin
-Heihachi is 80 years old, and it was a miracle he survived any of the previously mentioned feats.. and even then he only just survived.. it didn't instantaniously walk away from either of those.

he also:

-miraculously survived getting thrown into a deep ravine by Kazuya
-miraculously winning a battle against a supernatural entity, Devil
-from getting assimilated by Ogre to fuse with him
-from getting beaten and smashed to a wall by Devil Jin
-from surviving the mini-nuke level explosion in honshu

That's pretty good for a 80 year old senile geezer like him.

Originally posted by jinzin
-h is not >>> an army of foot ninjas including foot elite.. sorry but that's the biggest load of bull you said yet.. every damn foot is said to be 12x that of the best trained cia, fbi, etc etc... elite foot are equivelent to 20 foot ninjas... shredder's>>>>> army of foot tech ninjas and cyber foot.. I can't possibly see how H even compares.. even though the jack robot battle was impressive he did have Kazuya's help...

Oh boy, what a load of exaggerative nonsense. So i guess that 12x better than the best trained cia, fbi, etc, etc couldn't handle 4 mutant turtles, 1 old mutant rat, 1 guy with sport equipment as a weapon and a reporter. Real nice.

And yes, he did have Kazuya's help. But of course, you do know just how tough a single Jack even at his initial stages is right? And they would've won too if Kazuya didn't betray Heihachi.

And let me rephrase that

Heihachi is >>>>> than any foot soldier or even dozens of them.

See there, i just added some more >

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It's true, but multiple arrows is << than what heihachi could do. We're talking about a guy who can compete with Paul phoenix brick basher feats and takes can take on multiple jacks (well... what mishima couldn't anyway). And i'm only comparing him to jack because of his armor and not his actual skills.

And other than that, what other feats does the little alien dude has against a real competent MA without his armor. I doubt he can even beat a single turtle alone....w/o pis or plot device that is. So what yoe're saying is that Shredder can't have the robot suit?

I'll have to make a note of that, and impede Ironman in the future to fight only as Tony Stark...

Or we could bot hstop grasping at damned straws and drop irrealevent points.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Since when does getting thrown into ravine, surviving a scorching C4 blast just brute force? Because of the distribusion of force?


You know what it's obvious with your insisted removal of the exo-armor Shredder has to be handicapped for Heihachi to stand a chance. So on even level grounds Shredder would win.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
See there, it isn't that hard to accept it's irrelevant, is it? Apperently subtlty is lost on you. by typing irrealeveant in quote he was short hand saying "What you consider to be irrelevent".



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
. You can lecture me about pyschological factors in this match when you hold a degree in such an occupation. He can lecture you when he knows what he's talking about...

Oh look that's now.

Or you know you can't lecture us on ... anything until you holed a degree in it.

Do you hold a degree in TMNT History or Tekken History?

No? Well I guess if you hold the philosophy of

"You can lecture me about this when you hold a degree in such an occupation."

You'd best shut your yap.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Let's see here, Where can i classify Shredder's armor, Earth? Wind? Water? Fire? Sounds like it doesn't fit anywhere in those elements does it........or perhaps Magic? Let me think for a minute what kind of magic does his armor possess..........................................................Sorry can't picture it magical as well. You inabilities have no bearing on the outcome of the match.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
But does it matter considering Heihachi > Turtles You're using your own assumptions as support to your arguments?

Nice circular reasoning you have there. Invalid and thusly false but nice none the less

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Oh boy, first the psychologist and now.......a martial artist Well, that proves you know jack shit about martial arts. Otherwise you wouldn't have made such a stupid statement.

Originally posted by Creshosk


You're using your own assumptions as support to your arguments?



Heihachi is surely > than turtles. Firstly because of his experience.
And untill i see turtles easilly breaking through walls i wouldn't believe that they coud harm Heihachi. I mean if this were h2h fight.

Originally posted by samishe
Heihachi is surely > than turtles. Firstly because of his experience.
And untill i see turtles easilly breaking through walls i wouldn't believe that they coud harm Heihachi. I mean if this were h2h fight.

turtles hit guys so hard that they send limp bodies through brick walls... they PUNCH OUT DINOSAURS... how is that not a comparible feat?

Originally posted by samishe
Heihachi is surely > than turtles. Firstly because of his experience.
And untill i see turtles easilly breaking through walls i wouldn't believe that they coud harm Heihachi. I mean if this were h2h fight.

turtles would also have their weapons.. just as shredder has his armor... arguing a strict h2h match is irrational.

Originally posted by jinzin
turtles hit guys so hard that they send limp bodies through brick walls... they PUNCH OUT DINOSAURS... how is that not a comparible feat?

Punching Dinosours? Kazuya tore dinosours apart with his bare hand. And Heihachi defeated Kazuya. And even breaking through walls isn't impressing at all comparing to Heihachi.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
The first fact you've mentioned and it's already flawed. He is human, but that's funny that you're actually comparing him to one. Tekken's reality hardly adheres to common logic just like most universes. It isn't that hard to accept a human has a high metahuman stats considering it's feasable to attain in their universe just like many others.

oh so it's oky for Hiehachi to produce super human feats in spite of being human? bu not for anyone in the TMNT verse?....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
The dragon is the only thing that remotely comes close but, one blow. Don't friggin kid me. And you seem to indicate even moreso a lack of logic by telling me he doesn't even have super strength/reflexes to do the job.
well... aren't we the little hypocrite?

Anyway's you missed the point... hiehachi MAY be able to produce feats of superhuman levels but his stamina still gives out because he's HUMAN... shredder's doesn't plain and simple.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
See there, it isn't that hard to accept it's irrelevant, is it?
again those trains I'm always talking about.. they just left the station all over again....



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
. You can lecture me about pyschological factors in this match when you hold a degree in such an occupation
yes a degree.... much better then say... experience... Just like officers who've spent 4 years in ROCT are going to be better prepared for battle than a 1 year grunt who's spent that year on the field right? And you call my logic flawed....




Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Let's see here, Where can i classify Shredder's armor, Earth? Wind? Water? Fire? Sounds like it doesn't fit anywhere in those elements does it........or perhaps Magic? Let me think for a minute what kind of magic does his armor possess..........................................................Sorry can't picture it magical as well.
Are you retarded? Is that it?... cause it's either that or you don't actually watch the show like you claim... foot mystics ARE empowered by magic, use magical AND mental (telepathic) attacks, AND have control over the earth's elements... the sword overcame all of that... The sword reacted to the armor and shredder claimed that the sword could recognize things/weapons/tools of the same like... thus the armor has some of the properties of the sword... which would explain his ability to walk through 89% of what gets thrown his way...

what the sword produces>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>simple concussive force as you claimed.



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And the turtles have yet to encounter Shredder by his lonesome without having to worry about Shredder's footsoldiers and bodyguards and encountering them beforehand. Sounds to me the turtles aren't anywhere Fresh everytime they face him..
Again WATCH THE SHOW...in departure shredder without his armor takes on the turtles and splinter.. when he finds out Bishop is in his HQ he says and I quote "this changes everything!" he instantly kicks the bejesus out of all of them in less than 7 seconds... no joke... no armor... just shredder skill at it's finest... And the turtles

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
But does it matter considering Heihachi > Turtles
you'd have to prove that first.. like cresh said you're basing that off nothing more than uneducated assumptions....



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Oh boy, first the psychologist and now.......a martial artist

well..... yeah....

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ninjakick2wi.jpg

honestly, how long CAN you go without sticking your foot in your mouth? it's pathetic.. really....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I can't help but laugh at that. Not a big feat?......hahahahaha.

It would seem laughing is ALL you can do when faced against a superior argument...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
but I won't delve to that any further since you've contradicted from the previous post.

don't point out the contradiction or anything just claim I've made one eand hope that that's enough...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
he also:

-miraculously survived getting thrown into a deep ravine by Kazuya.
It was miraculous... it left him drifting into a coma like state and everyone was AMAZED he survived...
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
-miraculously winning a battle against a supernatural entity, Devil.
who's big claim to fame was taking out a little team of special forces guys? pffftt.. wolveirne would have done more damage...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
--from getting assimilated by Ogre to fuse with him.
this proves what?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
---from getting beaten and smashed to a wall by Devil Jin.
again another feat every street level and their grandma does... every time shredder hits the turtles and sends em flying they end up smashed into a wall.. hell even the elite foot can do that...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
-from surviving the mini-nuke level explosion in honshu
which left him unconcious for a month and was again YES miraculous....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
-That's pretty good for a 80 year old senile geezer like him.
yes it is.. and it means there needs to have some questions answered by the tekken team but until then he's still an 80 yr old geezer who's gonna putter out against the shredhead...



Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Oh boy, what a load of exaggerative nonsense. So i guess that 12x better than the best trained cia, fbi, etc, etc couldn't handle 4 mutant turtles, 1 old mutant rat, 1 guy with sport equipment as a weapon and a reporter. Real nice.
oh boy ignoring factual evidence AGAIN cuase you don't like it.. real nice...


Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And yes, he did have Kazuya's help. But of course, you do know just how tough a single Jack even at his initial stages is right? And they would've won too if Kazuya didn't betray Heihachi..
that resulting explosion says different...

you're aware how tough cyber foot ninjas are right? TMNT>>>>>cybers...
shredder>>>TMNT... that simple.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Heihachi is >>>>> than any foot soldier or even dozens of them...
which I can agree to..... but hundreds of them? and a swat team... AND foot elite? no... not likely....

Originally posted by samishe
Punching Dinosours? Kazuya tore dinosours apart with his bare hand. And Heihachi defeated Kazuya. And even breaking through walls isn't impressing at all comparing to Heihachi.

robot dinosaurs.. in a non canon cartoon.... hell if we're allowed to use whatever media wewant though.. hell I choose anime shredder.. he's a threat on a planetary level... so long hiehachi...

Originally posted by jinzin
robot dinosaurs.. in a non canon cartoon.... hell if we're allowed to use whatever media wewant though.. hell I choose anime shredder.. he's a threat on a planetary level... so long hiehachi...

If you wanna go by games only ok.

WEAKEST punch from Heihachi is capable of breaking through meter thick wall. His hardest punch is twenty times stronger than his weakest punch. So his hardest punch is capable of killing Shredder instantly.

Originally posted by samishe
If you wanna go by games only ok.

WEAKEST punch from Heihachi is capable of breaking through meter thick wall. His hardest punch is twenty times stronger than his weakest punch. So his hardest punch is capable of killing Shredder instantly.

LOL okay we go by video games then.. shredder transforms into supes and STILL kills hiehachi with all his strange and random superpowers...

Originally posted by jinzin
LOL okay we go by video games then.. shredder transforms into supes and STILL kills hiehachi with all his strange and random superpowers...

Mmmm... isn't it from that old dendy game? I thought he transformed because of a mutagen?

Originally posted by samishe
Mmmm... isn't it from that old dendy game? I thought he transformed because of a mutagen?

naw.. in a number of th SNES and sega games he transformed at the end of the game at will...

his super powers included
super strength, super speed, levitation. warping, napalm attack (fire came out of the ground), random lighting bolts that rained from the heavens, and his MA skills...

Your knowledge of old snes games is something unbelievable

Still i doubt he could take combo from Heihachi and stay alive.
Oh and i used to watch that old turtles cartoon.

Originally posted by samishe
Your knowledge of old snes games is something unbelievable

Still i doubt he could take combo from Heihachi and stay alive.
Oh and i used to watch that old turtles cartoon.

what do you based that doubt on? I mean arguing against the classic turtles is almost worse than arguing against the current ones... classic ninja turtles tore robotic machines apart with their bare hands, dodged continuous lazer fire on a consistant basis and punched rock soldiers from demension x unconsious....

Originally posted by jinzin
what do you based that doubt on? I mean arguing against the classic turtles is almost worse than arguing against the current ones... classic ninja turtles tore robotic machines apart with their bare hands, dodged continuous lazer fire on a consistant basis and punched rock soldiers from demension x unconsious....

...And Feng Wei desatroyed entire mountain with his bare hands. Still he lost the Tekken tournament.

canon? nope...

Originally posted by jinzin
canon? nope...

I bet you, i bet you that if Feng will appear in tekken 6 he'll posses those Dragon powers and still will lose the tournament.
BTW if he didn't won the tournament it still doesn't mean that video isn't canon.

Like King's ending in tekken 4, or Brian's ending, or many others.

and it's not factual evidence until it's later confirmed by another game...

Originally posted by jinzin
and it's not factual evidence until it's later confirmed by another game...

May be not. But it doesn't matter, those dragon powers didn't made him much stronger than he already was. I'm going according to game. If he could break through walls with minimum efforts i believe if he gives his best punch he could break mountain even without those powers.

Originally posted by samishe
May be not. But it doesn't matter, those dragon powers didn't made him much stronger than he already was. I'm going according to game. If he could break through walls with minimum efforts i believe if he gives his best punch he could break mountain even without those powers.

the hell? batman breaks down steel doors.. you think he could take out a mountain with a punch?

Originally posted by jinzin
the hell? batman breaks down steel doors.. you think he could take out a mountain with a punch?

Meter thick wall with WEAKEST punch, while strongest punch is at least 20 times stronger(that's according to the game). I believe he could break the mountain. And how about Brian destroying tanks. He did it in tekken 3, since then his strength upgraded a lot and still he lost the tournament.

BTW Batman breaking metal doors is PIS.

Originally posted by samishe
May be not. But it doesn't matter, those dragon powers didn't made him much stronger than he already was. I'm going according to game. If he could break through walls with minimum efforts i believe if he gives his best punch he could break mountain even without those powers. so going off of your own unvalidated assumptions?

I like how when backed into a corner Jinzin's opponents try to change the rules of the game, only to discover things are still in his favor.

Originally posted by samishe
Meter thick wall with WEAKEST punch, while strongest punch is at least 20 times stronger(that's according to the game). I believe he could break the mountain. And how about Brian destroying tanks. He did it in tekken 3, since then his strength upgraded a lot and still he lost the tournament. Um... 20x stronger than meter thick is 20 meter's thick... niot ... A mountain.

Originally posted by samishe
BTW Batman breaking metal doors is PIS. Why?

Originally posted by Creshosk
so going off of your own unvalidated assumptions?

I like how when backed into a corner Jinzin's opponents try to change the rules of the game, only to discover things are still in his favor.

Going of the game, if you played you should know why i said that.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Um... 20x stronger than meter thick is 20 meter's thick... niot ... A mountain.

Why?

What do you mean "why"?

Because he's only a human, he may know all martial arts in the world(what is already a bullsh!t) but it doesn't make him being able to break through metal.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Um... 20x stronger than meter thick is 20 meter's thick... niot ... A mountain.

Originally posted by samishe
What do you mean "why"?

Because he's only a human, he may know all martial arts in the world(what is already a bullsh!t) but it doesn't make him being able to break through metal.

but tekken characters can?

Originally posted by jinzin
but tekken characters can?

Tekken characters were created to be people with not ordinary human abilities, like Street fighter characters. Batman was created as a normal guy who learnt a lot of martial arts, put silly costume and went to fight crimes.

Originally posted by samishe
Going of the game, if you played you should know why i said that. Yeah cause you need to change the rules because of a weaker position.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Um... 20x stronger than meter thick is 20 meter's thick... niot ... A mountain.


Man, why are you sticking on this forum? With logic like yours you should've became a world famous loyar or proffesor or whatever.

Originally posted by samishe
Tekken characters were created to be people with not ordinary human abilities, like Street fighter characters. Batman was created as a normal guy who learnt a lot of martial arts, put silly costume and went to fight crimes.

lol... remember when I asked you what you thought about batman having a mountain rendering punch? guess what.....



I just wanted to see if you were going to be a hypocrite too.. and you went right for that cheese... fact is batman is NO normal guy he has abilities of chi manipulation and skill that make 90% of the entire tekken cast look like child's play... sorry but wherever you got your batman info it was the worng place.. he's certainly anything but what you described him as....

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah cause you need to change the rules because of a weaker position.

What rules?

Originally posted by samishe
Man, why are you sticking on this forum? With logic like yours you should've became a world famous loyar or proffesor or whatever. Yeah I get that alot. But why would I want to become one of those? It's my creative side I enjoy indulging more.

Originally posted by jinzin
lol... remember when I asked you what you thought about batman having a mountain rendering punch? guess what.....



I just wanted to see if you were going to be a hypocrite too.. and you went right for that cheese... fact is batman is NO normal guy he has abilities of chi manipulation and skill that make 90% of the entire tekken cast look like child's play... sorry but wherever you got your batman info it was the worng place.. he's certainly anything but what you described him as....

Two words:
Mother box?

Originally posted by jinzin
lol... remember when I asked you what you thought about batman having a mountain rendering punch? guess what.....



I just wanted to see if you were going to be a hypocrite too.. and you went right for that cheese... fact is batman is NO normal guy he has abilities of chi manipulation and skill that make 90% of the entire tekken cast look like child's play... sorry but wherever you got your batman info it was the worng place.. he's certainly anything but what you described him as....

Well, your little experement proves only that i don't know much about Batman, that's true. I only know what i heard. And i heard that he is an ordinary well trained man.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Two words:
Mother box?

nope that's a skill he picked up from his master.. name I can't place at the moment.. it was all back in my batman shadow warrior post back in the bats spidey thread... I think it's actually more attune to punching a mountain and a more than equivolent supernatural energy coming out the other side... but would explain how he punches out new gods....

Originally posted by samishe
Well, your little experement proves only that i don't know much about Batman, that's true. I only know what i heard. And i heard that he is an ordinary well trained man.

So by that same logic you're only making uneducated inferences for the purpose of this thread then?

Originally posted by jinzin
nope that's a skill he picked up from his master.. name I can't place at the moment.. it was all back in my batman shadow warrior post back in the bats spidey thread... I think it's actually more attune to punching a mountain and a more than equivolent supernatural energy coming out the other side... but would explain how he punches out new gods.... I meant add in the mother box.

Originally posted by jinzin
So by that same logic you're only making uneducated inferences for the purpose of this thread then?

No, ask anyone on this thread. "Is it PIS when Batman breaks through metal door?" they'll answer "yes".

You overrate Bats to much. 90% of all tekken characters look weak comparing to him? ??

Originally posted by samishe
No, ask anyone on this thread. "Is it PIS when Batman breaks through metal door?" they'll answer "yes". Oh, ad populem arguments.

"It's the right answer because it's the popular one"

As i said before you guys overrate him to much.
90% of all tekken characters look weak comparing to him?

Originally posted by samishe
No, ask anyone on this thread. "Is it PIS when Batman breaks through metal door?" they'll answer "yes".

You overrate Bats to much. 90% of all tekken characters look weak comparing to him? ??

he'd hand 90% of them their ass yes.. unless of course you somehow think they're more threatening than the justice league...?

Originally posted by jinzin
he'd hand 90% of them their ass yes.. unless of course you somehow think they're more threatening than the justice league...?

Man, if you'll tell me that you took seriously all that "batman defeats JLA by himself" i'll not respect you anymore.

not all at the same time but the guy has beat down superman time after time, beat up a demonized wonderwoman, put down aquaman in a fist fight, nearly tore off GL's ring finger, tripped flash in mid run and then escaped to the point that wally couldn't find him... the guy's crazy...

Originally posted by jinzin
not all at the same time but the guy has beat down superman time after time, beat up a demonized wonderwoman, put down aquaman in a fist fight, nearly tore off GL's ring finger, tripped flash in mid run and then escaped to the point that wally couldn't find him... the guy's crazy...

Batman is a badass, nobody argue with that. But whenever he beat supes he uses kriptonit or he uses PIS. HOW could his punches hurt the one who could take a nuke and not being hurt? I mean come on. Superman could move entire planet.

And still Batman is not a match for tekken characters. Not because he's weak, or not trained. That's just whole different universe where ordinary human could be on a whole different level than humans in bats universe.

i simply dissagree.. I don't think half the tekken characters match up to a guy like "the general" but that's just me...

Originally posted by jinzin
i simply dissagree.. I don't think half the tekken characters match up to a guy like "the general" but that's just me...

BTW Jin, do you want to join KMC Syndicate? Just for laughs, it's like community.

the hell is it a community of?

Originally posted by samishe
Batman is a badass, nobody argue with that. But whenever he beat supes he uses kriptonit or he uses PIS. HOW could his punches hurt the one who could take a nuke and not being hurt? I mean come on. Superman could move entire planet.

And still Batman is not a match for tekken characters. Not because he's weak, or not trained. That's just whole different universe where ordinary human could be on a whole different level than humans in bats universe. Ah but by crossing over are the characters converted to the way they would be in the respective other world?

Originally posted by jinzin
the hell is it a community of? The Syndicate is the evil characters
It's over in the Comic book section under comic book movies.

Maybe we should create a ninja society or something. lol

Originally posted by jinzin
the hell is it a community of?

Well, you choose one marvel or DC villian that would represent you in the syndicate. It doesn't make you to have any duties or anything.
Just membership. Group of buddies.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Ah but by crossing over are the characters converted to the way they would be in the respective other world?

You mean how would Bats look in tekken crossover? Well it's a whole different story.

Originally posted by samishe
You mean how would Bats look in tekken crossover? Well it's a whole different story. Well yeah sorta.

If in the DC universe, would these cahracters that gain these powers out of pure skill still be able to?
And vice versa someone who is the most or one of the most skilled of the DCU be able to do the more impressive things in another universe?

AFter all it's been aserted many times that both batman and the Tekken or Street fighter characters are just humans...

Hell even the humans of the DBZ-verse...

Would they be as limited in a world more realistic on it's martial artists? And would these limited universe MAs be more powerful in a less restricted one?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well yeah sorta.

If in the DC universe, would these cahracters that gain these powers out of pure skill still be able to?
And vice versa someone who is the most or one of the most skilled of the DCU be able to do the more impressive things in another universe?

AFter all it's been aserted many times that both batman and the Tekken or Street fighter characters are just humans...

Hell even the humans of the DBZ-verse...

Would they be as limited in a world more realistic on it's martial artists? And would these limited universe MAs be more powerful in a less restricted one?

I'm sure if Bruce would appear in Tekken game they'd make him on pair with other characters. But such things always happen in crossovers. Like when Venom appeared in DC comix.

Besides that Mishimas've been said to be not normal humans even comparing to other tekken characters.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So what yoe're saying is that Shredder can't have the robot suit?

Feel free to quote me when i made an explicit comment about Shredder not being in his robot suit.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'll have to make a note of that, and impede Ironman in the future to fight only as Tony Stark...

And now you just compared him to ironman....

Originally posted by Creshosk
Or we could bot hstop grasping at damned straws and drop irrealevent points.

Or we shouldn't because it exists in what he posted

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because of the distribusion of force?

Oh boy, another physics teacher to do the job. But i guess since Jinzin already mentioned and compared Heihachi to a normal 80 year old man, i guess their type could survive those through the distribution of force then.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You know what it's obvious with your insisted removal of the exo-armor Shredder has to be handicapped for Heihachi to stand a chance. So on even level grounds Shredder would win.

It's obvious. See my first line telling you to quote me. You obviously haven't read the exchange and been asked to assist your friend here.

Originally posted by jinzin
oh so it's oky for Hiehachi to produce super human feats in spite of being human? bu not for anyone in the TMNT verse?....



Well considering i never said anything remotely resembling that claim

Originally posted by jinzin
well... aren't we the little hypocrite?

Anyway's you missed the point... hiehachi MAY be able to produce feats of superhuman levels but his stamina still gives out because he's HUMAN... shredder's doesn't plain and simple.


again those trains I'm always talking about.. they just left the station all over again....

Your train was deluded and biased so i boarded another one.

And of course your claim to his stamina is left without evidence.




Originally posted by jinzin
yes a degree.... much better then say... experience... Just like officers who've spent 4 years in ROCT are going to be better prepared for battle than a 1 year grunt who's spent that year on the field right? And you call my logic flawed....


Flawed? it's always been flawed. it's a fact



Originally posted by jinzin
Are you retarded? Is that it?... cause it's either that or you don't actually watch the show like you claim... foot mystics ARE empowered by magic, use magical AND mental (telepathic) attacks, AND have control over the earth's elements... the sword overcame all of that... The sword reacted to the armor and shredder claimed that the sword could recognize things/weapons/tools of the same like... thus the armor has some of the properties of the sword... which would explain his ability to walk through 89% of what gets thrown his way...


Once again the question:

is the armor magical in nature, resembling fire? or wind? or water? or earth? if not, then stfu. It's simple as that

Just because it works on something that specific doesn't mean it'll automatically work on another completely different subject.

Originally posted by jinzin
what the sword produces>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>simple concussive force as you claimed.





Again WATCH THE SHOW...in departure shredder without his armor takes on the turtles and splinter.. when he finds out Bishop is in his HQ he says and I quote "this changes everything!" he instantly kicks the bejesus out of all of them in less than 7 seconds... no joke... no armor... just shredder skill at it's finest... And the turtles

what a load of nonsense.



Originally posted by jinzin
you'd have to prove that first.. like cresh said you're basing that off nothing more than uneducated assumptions....

Oh boy, The professor and his assistant agreeing on something, how convenient?

Uneducated assumptions? hahahaha, funniest hyprocritical shit i've heard all day.






Originally posted by jinzin
well..... yeah....

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ninjakick2wi.jpg

honestly, how long CAN you go without sticking your foot in your mouth? it's pathetic.. really....

a single martial arts sport bout to prove you this?

Originally posted by jinzin
It would seem laughing is ALL you can do when faced against a superior argument...

Your "superior argument" = Hillarious


Originally posted by jinzin
don't point out the contradiction or anything just claim I've made one eand hope that that's enough...




Originally posted by jinzin
It was miraculous... it left him drifting into a coma like state and everyone was AMAZED he survived...

Coma, when was this "coma"

Originally posted by jinzin
who's big claim to fame was taking out a little team of special forces guys? pffftt.. wolveirne would have done more damage...

Come on now, don't be that bitter from your pointless stand in another thread.

Originally posted by jinzin
this proves what?

The feat speaks for itself. And since you provided "miraculous" in your description, why not go all the way?

Originally posted by jinzin
again another feat every street level and their grandma does... every time shredder hits the turtles and sends em flying they end up smashed into a wall.. hell even the elite foot can do that...

ignorance is a bliss, you should thank it.

Originally posted by jinzin
which left him unconcious for a month and was again YES miraculous....

Which btw, no opponent of the shredder has done before.

Originally posted by jinzin
yes it is.. and it means there needs to have some questions answered by the tekken team but until then he's still an 80 yr old geezer who's gonna putter out against the shredhead...

Oh that's right, cause you feel it right?

Originally posted by jinzin
oh boy ignoring factual evidence AGAIN cuase you don't like it.. real nice...



Originally posted by jinzin
that resulting explosion says different...

initial explosion?........ Funny cause P. Jack was able to do the same and that was Tekken 1-2.

Originally posted by jinzin
you're aware how tough cyber foot ninjas are right? TMNT>>>>>cybers...
shredder>>>TMNT... that simple.

And Heihachi > Shredder, you're right, it's that simple.

Originally posted by jinzin
which I can agree to..... but hundreds of them? and a swat team... AND foot elite? no... not likely....

Which Shredder hasn't done by himself nor did the turtles taking them all at the same time or without prep.

oaky this is pathetic at this point your not even providing decent counters, you're just ignoring half of what I'm saying...

and yes the turtles did throw down with a foot army, elites, and a swat team in the streets without prep or help.. and yes they were victorious... shredder's still superior just as he is to H.....

Last time i check, those parties/groups of people weren't fight alongside each other and treated other groups as much enemies as the turtles. And the turtles didn't won when it happened, they made a hasty retreat although they did put up a fight first.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Last time i check, those parties/groups of people weren't fight alongside each other and treated other groups as much enemies as the turtles. And the turtles didn't won when it happened, they made a hasty retreat although they did put up a fight first.

yeah it was a bit of a free for all, but everyone there had agendas to kill the turtles... turtles WERE winning, and had to withdraw because innocents were being harmed in the fray.

Originally posted by jinzin
explosion smexplosion...

against human shredder from original cartoons, and movie shredder, and.. heihachi wins.

any other shredder, he gets curbstomped.

i mean... old video game shredder could just turn into super shredder and he had all sorts of crazy powers.

old comic shredder was better than the 4 turtles combined who took on and beat all sorts of outworldy opponents and were battle nexs champions.

new shredder has super strength, agility, speed, reflexes, 500 years of experience, and is super durable.. he's survived several explosions with and without his exoskeleton... IS that a cosign?

I remember old school Shredder losing when the Turtles ganged up on him, and Leo (when he was badass), told Shredder to commit Seppaku.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
IS that a cosign?

I remember old school Shredder losing when the Turtles ganged up on him, and Leo (when he was badass), told Shredder to commit Seppaku.

that is a cosign


yes you're right.. damn.... been a while since I've read through them... hmph... well it doesn't matter new school shredder's still better than the collective TMNT in every way.

Originally posted by jinzin
that is a cosign


yes you're right.. damn.... been a while since I've read through them... hmph... well it doesn't matter new school shredder's still better than the collective TMNT in every way. I hear they are trying to make Leonardo more sophisticated this time around...

sophisticated? you mean less of a cold blooded killer and more of the boyscout he's portrayed in tv and such?

shredder takes this easy thats all i have to say

Originally posted by jinzin
sophisticated? you mean less of a cold blooded killer and more of the boyscout he's portrayed in tv and such? Actually the opposite, not the one-dimensional boyscout leader type, but a more hardcore in-depth batman type.

wait for the new movie or the show?

I think it will be continued in the show (which I haven't seen around in awhile admittedly).

Whats the latest part so far canon-wise?

Heihachi wins...Dragon Uppercut!