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Which team wins. The battle takes place in Shanghai...

Ulic and Revan

Revan stalls Yoda while Ulic beats Mace, the duo own Yoda...

cool fight though, but the PT homies are outmatched.

Here we go again. Revan is an unknown and there's absolutely nothing to say that Ulic is a better lightsaber fighter than either Windu or Yoda. In fact there's more evidence that the two were better than him than vice versa. I love Revan but he's an unknown until KOTOR III

Originally posted by tdtd
Here we go again. Revan is an unknown and there's absolutely nothing to say that Ulic is a better lightsaber fighter than either Windu or Yoda. In fact there's more evidence that the two were better than him than vice versa. I love Revan but he's an unknown until KOTOR III

Well, truth is we don't have any fair judge of power as far as Revan and ullic are concerned, we only have their accomplishments which imply power much like those of marka ragnos or naga sadow, We don't know which forms either use only that Ullic was a renowned swordsman in an era of very powerful duelists and that Revan was also a renowned swordsman that studied many forms extensively although which form he uses specifically is unknown. The only real comparison we could make between these two is of their accomplishments in which case Revan and Ullic clearly come away the victors, otherwise all we have to go by is implied at best so we can't really make a fair judgement.

Eh I don't see any one of these being especially better than the other with the lightsaber. I do see Yoda flipping around like a heroin addicted muppet and tiring everybody out.

Well, to be fair as i said we can't make a real judge of ullic and revans lightsaber form(s) as we don't know what they used, however we can judge what they were able to accomplish with said forms which far exceeds that which yoda and mace accomplished which IMPLY that they are superior, as i said it's only implied, there's nothing concrete.

PS Anyone know what happened to Janus?

Ulic and Revan are not superior to Yoda and Mace. We don't know where Revan ranks in lightsaber combat but he was able to beat Malak on the SF and he was the greatest of his time. Yoda and Mace were the greatest of their time.. And Ulic was the second best of his time, behind Kun.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Well, to be fair as i said we can't make a real judge of ullic and revans lightsaber form(s) as we don't know what they used, however we can judge what they were able to accomplish with said forms which far exceeds that which yoda and mace accomplished which IMPLY that they are superior, as i said it's only implied, there's nothing concrete.

PS Anyone know what happened to Janus?

Janus, is still here, under the name of Wesker. Nice to see you again, btw.

Not superior, you can't really say that for sure, as we don't know, All we know about Revan and Ullic are accomplishments, so if we're going to compare anything it should be those. In which case Revan won two wars pretty much singlehandedly, defeated the two most powerful non-force user races of his time(mandalorians and echani) killing the leaders of both, he nearly anhilated the jedi order, anhilated the sith (for the time being atleast). ullic also defeated the leader of the mandalorians, killed many jedi and fought Kun(who made the ground shake with his presecence and defeated the most powerful masters of his time)to a draw. lets compare this to yoda, who defeated dooku(but not totally) and wasn't able to defeat sidious, they also fought in one war, which they didn't win, let alone singlehandedly, it was also a war with almost no force users outside of the jedi, Revan fought and killed many force users however. They have a small fraction of the experience in battle that revan does(this is going by what we know, please don't give me this absence of proof isnt proof of absence bs, otherwise i can say that during the clone wars 3po pimp slapped yoda and shattered his jaw and that the 100 year war was won by an army of elves. I can't prove it so i guess i'll just use a bs catch phrase so i can make things up and pretend they're facts despite the complete lack of evidence and/or logic behind them). So going by the little we know about Revan and Ullic they would appear to be stronger though as I said this is all implied, but hey it's all we know.

thx man

That's all good but those accomplishments don't show how they would win in a saber duel.

Well, we can say that Ulic is better then Yoda with a large amount of support. Not necessarily proof, but support is still support.

We saw Ulic stalemate Exar sometime before Exar was a forcegod and after he lost to Vodo on Dantooine. Now, we can't prove that Exar increased between fighting Vodo on Dantooine and when he fought Ulic on that one planet(can't remember the name). It would be very strange however, if Exar didn't increase before that fight but became several times stronger in the space of time between stalemating Ulic and pwning Vodo.

Furthermore, we can't prove that Ulic got better after that fight with Exar, but it wouldn't make any sense if he didn't.

So, Ulic should be a good bit better then Vodo, who is commonly believed to be better then Yoda.

So the stronger of the Jedi is out of the picture.

Like I said, it's not proof, but there is plenty of support that indicates that Ulic is better then Yoda by a good amount.

Someone else can make an argument for Revan.

It shows that they were powerful enough to accomplish greater things then yoda or mace did, implying that they'r emore powerful. If Revan could singlehandedly win two wars he was supposed to lose, with inferior solidiers, then chances are they're more powerful then two jedi who along with an entire council and a larger number of superior solidiers who actually never won the war they should have in the first place.

His powers allowed him to accomplish said feats, they're a direct result of his power, therefore if they're greater then thos of his opposition it implies his abilities are also greater.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, we can say that Ulic is better then Yoda with a large amount of support. Not necessarily proof, but support is still support.

We saw Ulic stalemate Exar sometime before Exar was a forcegod and after he lost to Vodo on Dantooine. Now, we can't prove that Exar increased between fighting Vodo on Dantooine and when he fought Ulic on that one planet(can't remember the name). It would be very strange however, if Exar didn't increase before that fight but became several times stronger in the space of time between stalemating Ulic and pwning Vodo.

Furthermore, we can't prove that Ulic got better after that fight with Exar, but it wouldn't make any sense if he didn't.

So, Ulic should be a good bit better then Vodo, who is commonly believed to be better then Yoda.

So the stronger of the Jedi is out of the picture.

Like I said, it's not proof, but there is plenty of support that indicates that Ulic is better then Yoda by a good amount.

Someone else can make an argument for Revan.

Well seeing as all of these are assumptions without any prove, and we don't allow those kinds of things for other characters we shouldn't allow them for Ulic there is really nothing to show Ulic rocks with a lightsaber except for his fight against Mandalore and him being called a Master. Now the fight against Mandalore was damned impressive, but still it wouldn't put him above Mace or Yoda and being called a Master that also wouldn't put him above Mace or Yoda who were also both called Masters. Ulic doesn't have on screen prove that he is great.

Well, I do have to say that Revan winning that war isn't as impressive as everyone makes it out to be. According to Canderous the Mandalorians were outnumbered five to one. I don't see how that makes Canderous that great of a military commander.

But yeah, chances still are that Revan is better then Yoda or Mace.

BTW, nice to see you again Frobo.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, I do have to say that Revan winning that war isn't as impressive as everyone makes it out to be. According to Canderous the Mandalorians were outnumbered five to one. I don't see how that makes Canderous that great of a military commander.

But yeah, chances still are that Revan is better then Yoda or Mace.

BTW, nice to see you again Frobo.

5 to 1 in the final battle above Malachor V when Revan had already destroyed most of the Mandelorian army's. It was a last stand for the Mandelorians one way or another, and you have to remember that the Mandelorians were far greater soldiers had more training better weapons and armor more skills with them...

An average Mandelorian soldier would probably be worth more then 10 good Republic soldiers. They were far greater warriors, them being outnumbered... Well it didn't stop them from ripping the Exile's controlled fleet into smithereens. It didn't stop them from almost beating the Republic back at Dxun. It didn't stop them from destroying a fleet 10x there own size above Althir. And they had been fighting for 40 years, before Kotor began.

Those soldiers rocked, but really Revan his military powers do not really matter in a VS fight.

Yea good chances that Revan is possibly better than those two, I agree with you. Unfortunately and as much as I like Revan, putting him into these threads isn't right because we know very little about his real force and lightsaber abilities. Yea Ulic was badass and stalemated a weaker Kun, and was mad impressive with his fight against Mandalore but that does nothing to suggest he is better than Yoda and Mace, who were the unmatched, and the greatest of their time.

once again ty, and the fact is he won not one but two wars, including anhilating the sith. as for being outnumbered 5-1 if you remember they were still beating the republic, no scratch that raping the republic, it's said time and time again throught both kotor's, if it wasn't for Revan the Republic would have lost, they were getting anhilated but revan came back and won it for them. As for his singlehandedly winning the second war, just play kotor.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, we can say that Ulic is better then Yoda with a large amount of support. Not necessarily proof, but support is still support.

We saw Ulic stalemate Exar sometime before Exar was a forcegod and after he lost to Vodo on Dantooine. Now, we can't prove that Exar increased between fighting Vodo on Dantooine and when he fought Ulic on that one planet(can't remember the name). It would be very strange however, if Exar didn't increase before that fight but became several times stronger in the space of time between stalemating Ulic and pwning Vodo.

Furthermore, we can't prove that Ulic got better after that fight with Exar, but it wouldn't make any sense if he didn't.

So, Ulic should be a good bit better then Vodo, who is commonly believed to be better then Yoda.

So the stronger of the Jedi is out of the picture.

Like I said, it's not proof, but there is plenty of support that indicates that Ulic is better then Yoda by a good amount.

Someone else can make an argument for Revan.

Not quite.

We see Exar get WTFpwned by Vodo in two moves. Now if you're implying that Exar improved to such levels that he became stronger than Vodo in a couple of months, with nothing behind that claim at all. . .

The only improvements we see Exar make are his acquiring of the amulet and the practice of a few Sith techniques. I'd say that Kun, by this time, has started down the path to power, but hasn't become nearly as able as Vodo yet. And this actually makes some sense, as Exar only truly delved into the Dark arts after his crowing as Dark Lord of the Sith. Before that, he'd only just begun to experiment with the new power available to him; otherwise, he would have wiped out Ulic on the spot, easily. The reason he improved so much later in lightsaber ability was because he'd created a new lightsaber, and a new style. For that time, a unique style, and one that Vodo had no defense against.

So no, I wouldn't say that Ulic is above Vodo; in fact, he's probably rivaling him at best.

agreed, there's absolutley no concrete evidence, I'm merely saying they were implied to be extremely powerful. Revan and ullic were the most badass of they're time, as i said many times no one could make an accurate comparison as we simply don't know enough, the only comparison that could be made is that of accomplishments, otherwise it's just speculation and bias.

So 2 of the 4 are unknowns.. Yay

yeah, so this thread is pointless as no one can make an opinion based on anything but speculation or bias, yay for useless.

Fine. I would say all 4 are equal to each other, so you'll have one giant stalemate.

Originally posted by Faunus
Not quite.

We see Exar get WTFpwned by Vodo in two moves. Now if you're implying that Exar improved to such levels that he became stronger than Vodo in a couple of months, with nothing behind that claim at all. . .

The only improvements we see Exar make are his acquiring of the amulet and the practice of a few Sith techniques. I'd say that Kun, by this time, has started down the path to power, but hasn't become nearly as able as Vodo yet. And this actually makes some sense, as Exar only truly delved into the Dark arts after his crowing as Dark Lord of the Sith. Before that, he'd only just begun to experiment with the new power available to him; otherwise, he would have wiped out Ulic on the spot, easily. The reason he improved so much later in lightsaber ability was because he'd created a new lightsaber, and a new style. For that time, a unique style, and one that Vodo had no defense against.

So no, I wouldn't say that Ulic is above Vodo; in fact, he's probably rivaling him at best.

Exar already had his amulet by the time he fought Ulic though. So Exar has already had one of these large improvements of power by this point. And like I said, shouldn't Ulic have improved after this point also? He'd just gotten an amulet and had no idea how to use it. Furthermore, had Ulic really started using the Darkside by that point either? I took him not killing Nomi as a sign that he wasn't evil yet. At least not totally.

According to IKC, Exar was still doing very well against Vodo even with his regular lightsaber. And if Exar's style made that much of a difference I would be really surprised. How would Exar have made a style with no defense against it to the point that a 600 year old Jedi couldn't see it so fast? Vodo still knew all of the basics of how Exar fought, as he taught him how to use a lightsaber.

Like I said, there really is no proof for Ulic being great. I just find it very unlikely that he isn't at least as good as Yoda. Personally, I've always put him about equal with NJO Luke, perhaps a little better.

Ulic never turned as completely as Kun did, when he send Aleema to die he felt sad about it, after he killed Cay he completly collapsed and just turned back to the Light Side of the force. And without any sings to show he has improved, or improved much why should we say he has?



IKC would be wrong, Vodo took Exar down in a few seconds, then when Kun was down and Vodo had no reason to continue the fight Exar drew a second lightsaber towards him and smashed Vodo his stick. The fight stopped immediately after that, Vodo was clearly greater then Kun at this time. And Vodo could still see the movements of Kun his lightsaber, he just couldn't block the power of two lightsabers, which is probably exactly what broke his stick not Kun his great lightsaber skills.



But completely without evidence... He hasn't been shown to do anything up to the level of Mace or Dooku, saying he's greater then either one of them is an assumption without prove. To rate him as high as NJO Luke is even more so.

You rate him equal to or better than NJO Luke? Wow.. Well I guess your opinion as mine is NJO Luke=Kun, yet neither one of us can prove it. And I'm looking at the scans right now, Kun did get beat in a matter of seconds. I would put Ulic on par with Windu in terms of saber combat. We know very little to nothing about his force power.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
It shows that they were powerful enough to accomplish greater things then yoda or mace did, implying that they'r emore powerful. If Revan could singlehandedly win two wars he was supposed to lose, with inferior solidiers, then chances are they're more powerful then two jedi who along with an entire council and a larger number of superior solidiers who actually never won the war they should have in the first place.
The topic of the thread is a duel, not a military battle. Revan being a great military strategist, and the clones not "winning" the war have absolutely nothing to do with their force powers or lightsaber skills.

right

EDIT

Whoa. Weren't you just saying that Ulic was greater than Yoda? Then ''there's no proof'', and now he's above Luke? Make up your mind. . .

Originally posted by Faunus
Whoa. Weren't you just saying that Ulic was greater than Yoda? Then ''there's no proof'', and now he's above Luke? Make up your mind. . .

What are you talking about? Yes, I'm saying Ulic is greater the Yoda. I'm saying that there is no solid proof that he isn't stronger then Yoda, but that I would be VERY surprised if he isn't.

I then said that I think he is as good, maybe slightly better then Luke, but that is just my own personal opinion. I can't prove that.

Glentract wouldn't you be arguing a negative if you're saying there's no solid proof that Ulic ISNT greater than Yoda? But yea at least you admit it's your opinion which is respectable enough.

Respectable, but useless in a debate.

I think it's logical to say that they're on par with each other, in terms of saber combat. Maybe... Then Yoda would take the force battle, I don't know anything about Revan's REAL force abilities.

tdtd, that was a typo on my part. Let me restate it. There is no solid proof that I can find that shows he is greater the Yoda, but from what I have seen I would be very surprised if he isn't infact stronger.

Faunus, it's only my opinion that Ulic is equal to NJO Luke, but how is my support for Ulic being better then Yoda useless in a debate?

I said your opinion is useless; and your ''support'' consists of a few random thoughts and should-have's that don't really amount to anything.

EDIT: No offense meant, btw. My last two posts seemed a bit harsh. . .

Ahh gotcha. Well it's hard for me to put many people on Yoda's level, but maybe..

And then we toss in the fact that, while blind to the Force, Ulic stalemated a pissed-off Jedi in lightsaber combat.

I think he's a good deal above both Yoda and Mace. The Darksiders win.

Considering, that Ulic and Revan, lived amongst a time where war was a common occurence, they certainly would have been much more battle hardened. Ulic was recognised as a prodigy with a lightsaber and a strong connection to the force, he alone could take down Mace, who while arguably is a better duelist, obviously cannot best Ulic in force strength.

Revan, bested a empowered Malak (who himself defeated Kavar (logical speculation) and is described as a lightsaber prodigy) when, Revan lost most of his former knowledge, and only trained within 6 months. This alone allows us to logically assume Revan at full potential would be leagues above Yoda, thus Revan completely owning him.

By that fact, the EU powerhouses defeat the PT powerhouses.

Originally posted by IKC
And then we toss in the fact that, while blind to the Force, Ulic stalemated a pissed-off Jedi in lightsaber combat.

I think he's a good deal above both Yoda and Mace. The Darksiders win.

He was pushed back by her for a long time, until eventually he just said "I won't fight" and stood there. Funny thing is he talked about Vomi about the dangers of being pushed back into a cliff just a short time earlier and there he was being pushed back to a cliff. He didn't stalemate her. And he had a lot of training with a lightsaber again after he lost his connection to the force. As nice as it is, it doesn't speak volumes for Ulic his power and I don't see how it would have put him above Mace or Yoda.. although he probably is, but we have no real prove for that. Beating Mandalore, stalemating a weaker Kun and staying alive in a fight against a Jedi do not make him the greatest lightsaber user ever...

Originally posted by Fishy
He was pushed back by her for a long time, until eventually he just said "I won't fight" and stood there. Funny thing is he talked about Vomi about the dangers of being pushed back into a cliff just a short time earlier and there he was being pushed back to a cliff. He didn't stalemate her. And he had a lot of training with a lightsaber again after he lost his connection to the force. As nice as it is, it doesn't speak volumes for Ulic his power and I don't see how it would have put him above Mace or Yoda.. although he probably is, but we have no real prove for that. Beating Mandalore, stalemating a weaker Kun and staying alive in a fight against a Jedi do not make him the greatest lightsaber user ever...

Fishy you're assuming that when IKC stated that Ulic was exceptional with a lightsaber, he did not imply that Ulic was the greatest lightsaber duelist, you are assuming that IKC's facts are biased.

Yoda, uses a style that relies heavily on the force, whilst Windu's Vaapad and precision with a lightsaber are heavily dependent on the force as well. Say they both became blinded to the force, it is unlikely they're even be able to repel an average Jedi's blow, let alone a Jedi Master.

Although what i have said is speculation and assumption as we have no proof on Windu and Yoda if they did lose their force connection, it is a rather logic reason, considering how heavily their styles depend on the force itself.

I'm not assuming anything look at other threads with Ulic in them.



With Yoda I completely agree, however Mace? Give him a student give him time to train and fight and i'm pretty sure he could block a few attacks and run block a few attacks and run, because thats basically what Ulic did.



With Yoda it is, he couldn't jump around anymore, he'd die in two seconds. With Mace its a different situation, we know people of his species (human) were able to fight against force users with weapon training sometimes even able to kill them.

Mace even if he would lose the force would still have a great control over his lightsaber less so obviously but he would still know how to use it, if he after that would start training with the weapon again he would improve quite a bit, and although he would not be as powerful as before he would more then likely be powerful enough to block a few blows and run block a few blows and run...

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Not superior, you can't really say that for sure, as we don't know, All we know about Revan and Ullic are accomplishments, so if we're going to compare anything it should be those. In which case Revan won two wars pretty much singlehandedly, defeated the two most powerful non-force user races of his time(mandalorians and echani) killing the leaders of both, he nearly anhilated the jedi order, anhilated the sith (for the time being atleast). ullic also defeated the leader of the mandalorians, killed many jedi and fought Kun(who made the ground shake with his presecence and defeated the most powerful masters of his time)to a draw. lets compare this to yoda, who defeated dooku(but not totally) and wasn't able to defeat sidious, they also fought in one war, which they didn't win, let alone singlehandedly, it was also a war with almost no force users outside of the jedi, Revan fought and killed many force users however. They have a small fraction of the experience in battle that revan does(this is going by what we know, please don't give me this absence of proof isnt proof of absence bs, otherwise i can say that during the clone wars 3po pimp slapped yoda and shattered his jaw and that the 100 year war was won by an army of elves. I can't prove it so i guess i'll just use a bs catch phrase so i can make things up and pretend they're facts despite the complete lack of evidence and/or logic behind them). So going by the little we know about Revan and Ullic they would appear to be stronger though as I said this is all implied, but hey it's all we know.

thats all fine and good, but when we see Yoda in AOTC/ROTS, he's already WAAAYY past his prime. I mean hell, he's in his mid 800's. And it seems that you're picking Revan when in his prime as well as Ulic. I'm not even sure if you could say Mace was in his prime, but he beat Palps until Ani came and cut his hand off. So i think that Mace and Yoda would play off each others strengths and weaknesses in both saber combat and force power. While Revan remains virtually unknown, its hard to tell even going by his accomplishments cause we don't know how those others stack up against Yoda/Mace. But Yoda was taking out plenty of 501st clones, who were based on the last Mandalorian (granted not as good as him) but Yoda does more than his fair share of ass whoopin. I think it would be an incredibly intense battle, but in the end Yoda and Mace win.

Darth Subjekt, how is Yoda past his prime? In a Jedi, force powers do not decrease with age. Yoda's extra knowledge of the force should make up for any loss in physical capability.

We also know that Revan defeated an empowered Malak on the SF. Malak was immune to all of Revan's force attacks while still able to attack Revan with the force, and Revan also defeated Malak at least 2 times before Malak died. Malak by himself would be a challenge for either Mace or Yoda. He was the top Sith out of an entire Empire of them. The fact that Revan is as far above Malak as he is means that him losing to either Mace or Yoda is VERY unlikely. I already threw in my thoughts on Ulic, maybe I'll think of some more proof for him later.

Originally posted by IKC
And then we toss in the fact that, while blind to the Force, Ulic stalemated a pissed-off Jedi in lightsaber combat.

I think he's a good deal above both Yoda and Mace. The Darksiders win.


Wow, because Ulic fought someone with a saber while blind to the force, that automatically puts him above Yoda or Mace. That's some infallible logic there IKC...

How about this. If you're using that as your weak argument then we have to speculate how well Yoda, Mace, and maybe even Revan would do without the force. As fishy said Yoda wouldn't be able to hop around like a cracked out muppet, but Mace would still be able to fight without the force, so that argument obviously falls through. Or how about the fact that Ulic fighting without the force doesn't put him on any level greater than Yoda nor Mace. I would say Revan>Yoda and Mace and Ulic=Yoda, Mace. Revan would be the best of the 4 so either way I suppose the duo of Revan and Ulic win.

The jedi in Ulic's time didn't really seem to use the force to guide them in saber duels like the PT jedi, so I think that even with the force, Ulic would not be much better than he was when he fought Sylvar.

Originally posted by zod360
The jedi in Ulic's time didn't really seem to use the force to guide them in saber duels like the PT jedi, so I think that even with the force, Ulic would not be much better than he was when he fought Sylvar.

WTF are you talking about?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
WTF are you talking about?

Well they seemed to rely on pure skill with a saber without proper use of the force like the PT jedi.

Wtf Numan, where are you getting this crap from?

Ulic says something to Vima which implies it. I haven't got the comics at my disposal right now so if you could check that would be great.

Yea I don't know what youre talking about.

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! SENSORS HAVE DETECTED INACCURATE STATEMENT!

Sylvar was pwning that Qel Droma ass when Ulic said
"Yo babe, why ya gotta be like dis. Let go of yo anga sista, and embrace da lite"

Sylvar was winning, she had her lightsaber right next to Ulic's throat, and in the comics Ulic was running until he came to a dead end.

Originally posted by zod360
Ulic says something to Vima which implies it. I haven't got the comics at my disposal right now so if you could check that would be great.

He doesn't say anything like that. He does say he can not feel the force but that he can still feel the blade. Probably just means he still knows how to use it, that he can still understand how it works and how he needs to move. But it does not mean that other Jedi would have been the same way. Some jedi rely on the force less to duel then others...

Originally posted by zephiel7
WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! SENSORS HAVE DETECTED INACCURATE STATEMENT!

Sylvar was pwning that Qel Droma ass when Ulic said
"Yo babe, why ya gotta be like dis. Let go of yo anga sista, and embrace da lite"

Sylvar was winning, she had her lightsaber right next to Ulic's throat, and in the comics Ulic was running until he came to a dead end.

Yea something like that, except less gangsta

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
We also know that Revan defeated an empowered Malak on the SF.

The circumstances of that battle are unknown, Glentract. Even the databank states that the duel was epic, meaning long and grueling. Think Anakin and Obi-Wan.



Bull, Glentract. Where is it stated that Malak was immune to Revan's Force attacks? That's right; nowhere.

And what the hell do you mean he defeated Malak twice? That would imply that he floored Malak, had him by the throat, and was in a position to kill him. The cutscene, in fact, had Malak standing atop the staircase, with Revan at the bottom. Malak drained the energy from the Jedi, but he was nowhere near where Revan was, nor was he kneeling on the ground in defeat.



A challenge, yes. But a superior? I doubt it. Revan, on the other hand, would likely be superior to either of them, as Malak is described as having been unstoppable when having his abilities amplified by the power of the Star Forge.

also meaning a lightsaber fight..



Not entirely true, Malak runs towards the nearest Jedi with me he was standing on the ground. But you are right it doesn't really mean anything not like he just increased his life, its likely that he couldn't defeat Revan and absorbed the power of the Jedi hoping it would give him enough extra power to defeat Revan... So it would probably be more logical to say that Revan and Malak fought, Malak was losing and then drained a Jedi to make himself more powerful not to restore his health.



Where was Malak described as unstoppable?

Originally posted by Faunus
The circumstances of that battle are unknown, Glentract. Even the databank states that the duel was epic, meaning long and grueling. Think Anakin and Obi-Wan.

And we know that certain things HAVE to have happened for the game to progress.

Originally posted by Faunus
Bull, Glentract. Where is it stated that Malak was immune to Revan's Force attacks? That's right; nowhere.

Replay KOTOR. Malak is protected from Revan's force attacks when they fought.

Originally posted by Faunus
And what the hell do you mean he defeated Malak twice? That would imply that he floored Malak, had him by the throat, and was in a position to kill him. The cutscene, in fact, had Malak standing atop the staircase, with Revan at the bottom. Malak drained the energy from the Jedi, but he was nowhere near where Revan was, nor was he kneeling on the ground in defeat.

Revan has to defeat Malak at least twice on the SF for the game to progress. This isn't based on gameplay, it HAS to happen.

Originally posted by Faunus
A challenge, yes. But a superior? I doubt it. Revan, on the other hand, would likely be superior to either of them, as Malak is described as having been unstoppable when having his abilities amplified by the power of the Star Forge.

If Malak was unstoppable with the post of the SF, how would he not be superior to Yoda or Mace? I really don't see what this paragraph is going for.

So again, Revan would be above Yoda and Windu, and where does that put Ulic.. Aside his spectacular battle with Mandalore, he hasn't show anything impressive enough to put him above Yoda nor Windu. But the duo of Ulic and Revan still win

Originally posted by tdtd
So again, Revan would be above Yoda and Windu, and where does that put Ulic.. Aside his spectacular battle with Mandalore, he hasn't show anything impressive enough to put him above Yoda nor Windu. But the duo of Ulic and Revan still win

Let me quote Janus on Ulic not doing anything. Ulic pwned Cay, stalemated Exar Kun, pwned Mandalore in one hell of a scenario, and pwned some other ****er who's name I can't recall at this moment. I could get more, but again... I don't have any scans at work.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Let me quote Janus on Ulic not doing anything. Ulic pwned Cay, stalemated Exar Kun, pwned Mandalore in one hell of a scenario, and pwned some other ****er who's name I can't recall at this moment. I could get more, but again... I don't have any scans at work.

You are forgetting Ommin. Ommin was protected by some form of machinery, right? Didn't Ulic pwn him regardless? Apparently it was a rather challenging fight.

Aside from his fight against Mandalore, I can't help but feel Ulic's abilities are being overestimated. He stalemated Kun, which is impressive, if Kun were using a double bladed lightsaber. The Exar Kun at the time of the duel was still the same Exar who was pimped by Vodo in terms of swordsmanship.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
And we know that certain things HAVE to have happened for the game to progress.

Yes, Revan defeating Malak. But nothing else in that scenario.



In gameplay, perhaps. But then again, Bandon and random Dark Jedi #976 can be, too, with the right Force power.



beaten or overcome; not victorious; "the defeated enemy"

Malak wasn't defeated when he absorbed the power of the Jedi, or else he would have been the above.



Does everything need to be spelled out for you, Glentract? I said that Revan would be superior to Yoda or Mace as he defeated Malak who - with the Star Forge - is described as nearly unstoppable. Damn. . .

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Let me quote Janus on Ulic not doing anything. Ulic pwned Cay, stalemated Exar Kun, pwned Mandalore in one hell of a scenario, and pwned some other ****er who's name I can't recall at this moment. I could get more, but again... I don't have any scans at work.

And all of this makes him superior to Yoda and Mace in a lightsaber/force battle how?

Originally posted by Fishy
also meaning a lightsaber fight..

. . . Your point?





Same message as my post, in different words.



Here:

The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.

Makes us know a bit more about the fight, then just Revan > Malak



I just stated this to say that Malak ran away to the nearest Jedi not towards one on top of the bridge...



Pretty impressive that he was still stopped then...

Originally posted by Fishy
Makes us know a bit more about the fight, then just Revan > Malak

Well, that was already established, I think.



Funny, I remember it otherwise. And I only played through it again a couple of months ago.



Erm, that was my entire point. Read my second post directed at Glentract.

Play through it again, Malak just runs towards one thats close by, or possible one of two or three Jedi.. I've only seen him run towards 3 different Jedi from as far as I remember... He doesn't always run to the same one..



I wasn't really arguing with you, just agreeing with some expanding a bit on others and correcting one really minor detail thats not even important.

The databank, unfortunately, is pretty piss poor. It also says that Sidious pwned Yoda hardcore.

It does? The hell, time to check it out.

The databank is officialy terrible in terms of eu, rivaled only by wiki for it's crappyness.

Well the databank is a bit more official and you can generally consider what it says reliable unless it contradicts something else... With Wiki you can never consider it true unless you have other sources confirming what they say.

The big problem with the databank is that it can contradict common sense and what we see in movie, though. And it's too vague to be used as a specific source for fights.