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Shouldn't the Jedi mind trick be more of a dark side move? Because the darkside is more about domination and control and such, and the jedi mind trick, although their is differnt variations of it, had to do mostly with forcing someone against their will mentaly to perform an action. The jedi is basicly enslaving that persons mind.

yes, i agree with this, i think Qui Gon was cronic for using it during EP1.

Then we would have had 3 movies long journey description as QuiGon And Obi1 walked to the other side of the Naboo =/

no, they could just be doing a darkside move. Like Luk with the force choke.

They don't force anyone or anything. It's just like OB1 told luke, "The force can a strong influence on the weak minded." So its not making them do anything. It didn't work on Watto or Jabba, because they weren't weak minded. When did they ever make anyone do anything, anyway? When luke said, "you will take me to jabba now.'' ? Thats the one time I can think of, but there was nothing "dark" about it. It's not like they're making people do illegal things or go kill someone. I don't think it follows the darkside at all.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
They don't force anyone or anything. It's just like OB1 told luke, "The force can a strong influence on the weak minded." So its not making them do anything. It didn't work on Watto or Jabba, because they weren't weak minded. When did they ever make anyone do anything, anyway? When luke said, "you will take me to jabba now.'' ? Thats the one time I can think of, but there was nothing "dark" about it. It's not like they're making people do illegal things or go kill someone. I don't think it follows the darkside at all.

rather intellectually eletist atitude, isnt it? boss nass was stupid, so quigon conned a ship out of him. and although it didnt work on watto, it was MEANT TO work. quigon intended to basically scam him.

but...the situation was dire and the ends justified the means, as was the case with every other time we see the jedi use that trick. however, you cannot deny the temptation of power which must be brought about by being able to control minds.

what i find interesting and ironic is that, from what we see, the sith never used the mind trick.

true, i see you're point. And as I was typing that, i was trying to actually recall a time when a Sith used it. But I think for that type of instance, the Sith rely on fear rather than clever mind tricks. Rather than try to solve a dilemma easily with simply tricking a person, they would prolly kill the person in question if they didn't get what they wanted.

But I can totally see your point on the temptation of abusing the power and having that lead to the darkside. But I also believe that its one of the powers that you need a certain level of skill to obtain or use, so the user would most likely be comfortable in the lightside and not necessarily feel that temptation.

I always wondered why Anakin didn't try to use it on Zam when trying to find out about Jango...I know she was about to dime him out anyway, but if he'd used a mind trick, they m,ight have found out before Jango had the chance to kill her. But thats all speculation.

As far as Boss Nass, yea he used it to get a transport, but if he was using it for the wrong reasons, he would prolly have used it when they were asking the Gungans for help at the end. Just my take on it.

well lets see, I guess thsi should be in the EU section, but whatever. Luke has used mind tricks to make entire fleets of fighters fire upon each other and crash into each other. He has used on stormtroopers to make him oblivious to them. And he has used it to control some sand people.

The Jedi Mind Trick is not used to directly or intendedly harm the victim, as all the other Dark Side abilities are.

Forcing someone to do something against their will is wrong.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Forcing someone to do something against their will is wrong.

exactly, the Sith are supposed to be al about control, taking things over, and forcing people to do thei will. A dictatorship if you will. When someone uses the jedi mind trick he is forcing someones bain to do things it does not want to do.

You forget just how good the Sith are at mind control such things. There are Sith in EU that can pretty much possess and make mind slaves of underlings and other such pepole.

When a Jedi uses a Mind Trick, it is usually more of a 'Oh feck, need to get out of this situation...' type of thing. Obi-Wan for example, in ANH; he doesn't want to get caught by stormies, he doesn't want Luke arrested, he doesn't want the droids captured.

Qui-Gon's instances; he needs to get off of Tatooine, and fast, or he needs to get to the Queen fast. The Mind Tricks just help the situation along. With Watto, he didn't have the local currency, but he WAS going to pay with credits; it's just that credits didn't matter to Watto. With Nass, Nass wasn't going to help him and Qui-Gon was pretty much just going to be arrested or something. Instead, Nass gives him a submarine.

Palpatine pulls a Mind Trick on Grievous in LoE...now THAT was Mind Control...

Still, it's not like the Jedi will say 'You WILL give me your wallet...' or 'You WILL have sex with me...' and other such dire things.

Exactly. The JMT is for protecting the Jedi or their comrades/friends.

I understand that. I'm not saying that the JMT can only be used for bad things, I'm saying that it should qualigy as a darkside thing. You can be using it for good intentions, but that doesn't neccicarily mean that that move isn't good and sincere and what not. But I see were your coming from.

Influencing the way some one thinks isn't a bad thing at all. if that were the case, then teachers would be agents of the darkside. They, in a way, influence you to think a certain way, the JMT is just more..."immediate". I don't all about the EU, but in the movies, I haven't seen a Jedi FORCE someone to do something. Qui Gon said, "We COULD use a transport." He didn't force him, he simply suggested it and with a waive of his hand, made Nass a little more sympathetic to his cause. Even in ROTJ, Luke didn't make dude take him to Jabba. He said it, but he didn't threaten him or hold a gun to his head. I guess in the end its just like the rest of Star Wars, its all based on a "certain point of view."

Originally posted by PVS


but...the situation was dire and the ends justified the means This is something the West needs to wake up to.

so what if anakin was actually using the mind trick to make padme fall in love with him??

"Stop looking at me like that.."
"Why not.."
"Cos it makes me feel uncomfortable.."
- AoTC

In Knights of the Old Republic the Jedi Mind Trick was a universal force power but you could use it for light or dark purposes. One situation in the game you could use it to tell two thugs to stop harassing someone(light) or you could tell the to give you their credits and kill themselves(dark).

I dont think they "force" anyone to do anything.

As they "only work on the weak-minded".

Consider the mind trick to be like a porn picture.

Once you see it, you will get an strong and natural urge to... "shake da snake". It is up to you whether you actually commit this sin or not. But you are not forced to do it. You are given an impulse, that you can either embrace or reject.

So the "weak-minded" could mean people with little awareness of their psychological functions and their origins. They dont know why they do things, they just know it feels good. The jedi are conditioned to be "mindful of their thoughts" and with this trick they exploit other peoples ignorance.

Would explain alot.

As Ben Kenobi pointed out: "The Force can have a strong influence on a weak mind".

Influence, not control.

It's just influencing people. You can't go calling out morality on that, else chamrmers go in the dock. it';s not mental domination, it's a tool of persuasion.

They never con anyone with it.

thats prety much what i said like a few day ago, lol.
Sesse, i lke your exampe...its tue but funy as hell.

Hehe, indeed.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's just influencing people. You can't go calling out morality on that, else chamrmers go in the dock. it';s not mental domination, it's a tool of persuasion.

They never con anyone with it.

no...sorry

credits will do.

no they wont (watto makes his stance on the issue clear)

credits WILL do.

if thats not attempting to trick someone into going against their will then i'm harrison ford...but you never know...i could very well be.

I believe that Palpatine(Sith) IS using his mind controlling power( a mind trick) during much of the prequels: >>>

1.He got Valorum removed from office.
Remember his line (from Episode1) to Amidala; "You could call for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum" > pure genius, look at his face in that shot.
2.Remember this one(Episode2); "Senator Amidala will not refuse an executive order....I know her well enough to assure you of that!"> that look when he's saying that.
3.Palpatine stayed in office long after his two terms.
Mace Windu(Episode3); "He has control of the senate and the courts...he's too dangerous to be left alive!" <<<

Okay perhaps Amidala isn't weak minded and not all the people in the senate are, but you're talking about THE Dark lord of the Sith here who's doing manipulation, mind tricks, clouding the Jedi's vision etc....you could say it's one big mind trick fueled by the Dark Side.

Dont forget the Episode 2 scene:

Sidious: "But what senator woud do such a radical move. etc.."
The guy with blue head: "If only...*trick?*.. Senator Amidala were here"
Jarjar: "Mui mui! Mesa gonna vote!"

Originally posted by Sesse
Dont forget the Episode 2 scene:

Sidious: "But what senator woud do such a radical move. etc.."
The guy with blue head: "If only...*trick?*.. Senator Amidala were here"
Jarjar: "Mui mui! Mesa gonna vote!"

i think that was just straight up manipulation. if it was a mind trick he would have simply waved his hand and said "you will call for an emergency powers vote". instead he played on jarjar's want to impress everyone and be a hero. just look at that shit eating grin on his face when everyone starts cheering.

ok heres a question I have...supposedly the force choke is meant to be a darkside power right? Ok well last night i was watching Ep3 with the commentary on to see what GL and company say about certain scenes and whatnot. The part where GG is going to speak with Sidious via hologram, they say his reason for his chronic cough was explained in the Clone Wars and that while fighting Mace, Mace force choked the shit out of him and crushed his throat more or less and thats why he coughs.
So we know that the mind trick can go both ways, but can the force choke be used a lightside attack? I dont mean to ask can a jedi do it, cause obviously they can, but is it one of those things thats either white or black, no gray area? If Mace used it was it because he was treading on the darkside or what? Give yor thoughts.

Yep, Luke Skywalker force-chokes the pig-guard in Jabba's Palace. So that was a good side use of the force choke.

Unless the Force is just the Force, and when it is used for dark purposes it is called the Dark Side of the Force, and used for good it is the good side of the Force. Maybe we're just splittin' hairs

That made no sense.

Constricting someone's throat with the Force is just the same as squeezing a tube of tooth paste with the Force.

It's what your INTENTION is that matters. And your intention is directed by your "point of view." It's not HOW you use the Force, well not JUST how, but also WHY.

Originally posted by Blaxican_Jedi
Shouldn't the Jedi mind trick be more of a dark side move? Because the darkside is more about domination and control and such, and the jedi mind trick, although their is differnt variations of it, had to do mostly with forcing someone against their will mentaly to perform an action. The jedi is basicly enslaving that persons mind. no powers are actually light or dark. It is how you use them.

Originally posted by darth vraya
no powers are actually light or dark. It is how you use them.

Agree on that one I do!
Best explanation yet, I think!

For the Jedi, it is far more important how they end up with their results than how much they achieve.

It is better to patiently grow 2 tomatoes than have 2000 with fear and anger.