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Except Islam is 500 years out of date because Muhammed was born 500 years after Jesus. Think about it. Look at Islam today and Christianity 500 years ago.

Jesus is the son of god, Muhammed is the son of god.
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.
Christians killed all the non-believers, Muslims killed the non-believers.
Christians moved west to escape the strict rules, Muslims moved west to escape the strict rules.
Christians have Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslims have Sunny vs. Shyite.
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.

So why are you fighting when your religion is roughly the same thing?

Muhammed the son of allah? You need to recheck your sources.

muhammad is NOT the son of god, he made that very clear and also made it clear that JESUS{or ISA} was not the son of god either but was a prophet like him. christianity and islam are poles apart. but one thing they do have in common is the stupidity and baseless illogical, immoral belief system.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Except Islam is 500 years out of date because Muhammed was born 500 years after Jesus. Think about it. Look at Islam today and Christianity 500 years ago.

Jesus is the son of god, Muhammed is the son of god.
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.
Christians killed all the non-believers, Muslims killed the non-believers.
Christians moved west to escape the strict rules, Muslims moved west to escape the strict rules.
Christians have Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslims have Sunny vs. Shyite.
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.

So why are you fighting when your religion is roughly the same thing?

You forgot one.

Jesus died and rose again, Muhammed died.

Oh wait, thats not right....

Originally posted by Punker69
You forgot one.

Jesus died and rose again, Muhammed died.

Oh wait, thats not right....

theres no proof of his rising again. oddly enough muslims believe that jesus was never crucified and was taken into the heavens before he could be crucified and god made sum1 else look like him and people crucified that man and that jesus will return one day to earth to kill darjal{the enti christ}and will live the remainder of his days on earth with muslims, lead them to vectory and die, to be burried by muslims who would also attend his funeral.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
theres no proof of his rising again. oddly enough muslims believe that jesus was never crucified and was taken into the heavens before he could be crucified and god made sum1 else look like him and people crucified that man and that jesus will return one day to earth to kill darjal{the enti christ}and will live the remainder of his days on earth with muslims, lead them to vectory and die, to be burried by muslims who would also attend his funeral.

I didn't say there was proof. I wa just stating my opinion like everyone else on this board.

You can believe anything you want about the perversion of the gospel that is Islam. My Bible says differently.

My Bible says that Jesus died on the cross for our sins that we might be saved. God wasn't a coward and he didn't chicken out at the last minute. He endured every moment of hardship so that we could have our sins washed away. Jesus already died once. He's not going to die again.

but islam says that jesus was never god to begin with nor did he ever claim to be anything more than a man. a messenger but a man nonetheless . see the difference. n YOUR bible is just a book written by humans, you can delude yourself till time ends, but it wont chane the undeniable arguments against its authenticity{heck even GOD can come down and you still cant justify or validate it}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but islam says that jesus was never god to begin with nor did he ever claim to be anything more than a man. a messenger but a man nonetheless . see the difference. n YOUR bible is just a book written by humans, you can delude yourself till time ends, but it wont chane the undeniable arguments against its authenticity{heck even GOD can come down and you still cant justify or validate it}

Like I said, I could care less what Islam says. Jesus was the Messiah and he claimed to be the savior. He said "He who hath seen me hath seen the father" and if we're going to play the "messenger" game that dissprove that scripture. Why do you think the apostles in the Acts baptized in the name of Jesus and cast out devils and healed the sick in his name? Because he's the Messiah and they understood this.

A book written by humans? Who is your book written by? Aliens?

wow, it really comes out in this thread, doesn't it.

Originally posted by Punker69
Like I said, I could care less what Islam says. Jesus was the Messiah and he claimed to be the savior. He said "He who hath seen me hath seen the father" and if we're going to play the "messenger" game that dissprove that scripture. Why do you think the apostles in the Acts baptized in the name of Jesus and cast out devils and healed the sick in his name? Because he's the Messiah and they understood this.

A book written by humans? Who is your book written by? Aliens?

Spare us the elitism

Yay for bad info and oversimplification.

Islam and Christianity are completely different read the quran and the bible compare and contrast and you see what I mean because I have.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
theres no proof of his rising again. oddly enough muslims believe that jesus was never crucified and was taken into the heavens before he could be crucified and god made sum1 else look like him and people crucified that man and that jesus will return one day to earth to kill darjal{the enti christ}and will live the remainder of his days on earth with muslims, lead them to vectory and die, to be burried by muslims who would also attend his fune be a .ral.

That's so lame. I mean it could comicbook.
It's like marvel, nobody ever dies.

I'm atheist, but really, give me the bible over the Koran everyday.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Christians killed all the nonbelievers, Muslims killed the nonbelievers.
Christians mostly try to convert nonbelievers. Killing nonbelievers is not one of the bible's teachings.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.
It does? Name one besides evolution as it is debatable.

You're reaching.

Originally posted by Shin_Gouken
Christians mostly try to convert nonbelievers. Killing nonbelievers is not one of the bible's teachings.


It does? Name one besides evolution as it is debatable.

1. Well in the OT god order the killing of the people of the new land that the Israelis conquered and then settled.

2. Evolution. The age of the Earth. The Big Bang. Plate tectonics. Humans being part of the animal kingdom.

The only real difference I see between Christian texts and Muslim texts is that the bible is grouped chronologically while the Koran and Sidrahs are grouped according to length of chapter. This makes the Koran a bit hard to follow at times. But on the other hand, it's a lot more uniformly written in terms of style than the bible. Sorry to judge spiritual texts on the merits of good story telling and structure.

Never heard that Muhammed was the son of god.
Actually Jesus never said he was the son of god either as in a God.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
1. Well in the OT god order the killing of the people of the new land that the Israelis conquered and then settled.

2. Evolution. The age of the Earth. The Big Bang. Plate tectonics. Humans being part of the animal kingdom.

1. Yes but God doesn't teach Christians that they should go around killing all the nonbelievers. In fact, he teaches to endure persecution from others and to "turn the other cheek."

2. Evolution: THEORY

Age of the Earth: I'll come back to you on that after I gather my sources
(PM me if I don't come back to this thread for like a week). There is also something about the gap theory having to do with the Genesis 1:1-2. Just google gap theory if you want to know more. I don't know if I agree with all of it though.

The Big Bang: THEORY

Plate Tectonics: What does the bible say against plate tectonics?

Humans being part of the animal kingdom: Classification systems change over the course of time. They didn't use our exact scientific definition for animal back then.

You do not know what "theory" means in a scientific context, and I don't think any of us want to see another Creationist flailingly demonstrate his ignorance. Thanks all the same, though.

Originally posted by Shin_Gouken
1. Yes but God doesn't teach Christians that they should go around killing all the nonbelievers. In fact, he teaches to endure persecution from others and to "turn the other cheek."

2. Evolution: THEORY

Age of the Earth: I'll come back to you on that after I gather my sources
(PM me if I don't come back to this thread for like a week). There is also something about the gap theory having to do with the Genesis 1:1-2. Just google gap theory if you want to know more. I don't know if I agree with all of it though.

The Big Bang: THEORY

Plate Tectonics: What does the bible say against plate tectonics?

Humans being part of the animal kingdom: Classification systems change over the course of time. They didn't use our exact scientific definition for animal back then.


The bible: MYTH

god: MYTH

The age of the Earth is around 4 billion years old. Plate Tectonics requires millions of years to operate. Some Christians believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. That is too short of a time for what we see in Plate Tectonics.

When dealing with scientific truth, I would rather rely on a Theory then a Myth.

Originally posted by Gregory
You do not know what "theory" means in a scientific context, and I don't think any of us want to see another Creationist flailingly demonstrate his ignorance. Thanks all the same, though.

First off, both of the following have NOT been proved:
Theory of Evolution
Big Bang Theory

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The bible: MYTH

god: MYTH

The age of the Earth is around 4 billion years old. Plate Tectonics requires millions of years to operate. Some Christians believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. That is too short of a time for what we see in Plate Tectonics.

When dealing with scientific truth, I would rather rely on a Theory then a Myth.

The Bible is quite historical. It contains accounts that were backed up by other historical books of the time. If you don't believe the events in the bible were true, you might as well not think that Plato ever existed. The historical evidence of the existance of many historic characters is much less than that of the bible.

Also, what do you mean by plate tectonics requiring millions of years to operate? They are constantly operating. Forgive me for any misunderstanding but I just don't see your point.

And BTW I promise I will have some info on the age of the earth ASAP. However, I'm not an expert in the matter. There's someone I know who basically is, and it may take a while for me to contact him.

No theory has been "proved." No scientific statement, ever, has been "proved." But they're so well-supported that it would be moronic to try to wave them off.

I'd be frustrated with you, but I did say you didn't understand scientific theories in my first post, and the speed with which you provided evidence for this was down-right courteous.

Originally posted by Shin_Gouken
First off, both of the following have NOT been proved:
Theory of Evolution
Big Bang Theory



The Bible is quite historical. It contains accounts that were backed up by other historical books of the time. If you don't believe the events in the bible were true, you might as well not think that Plato ever existed. The historical evidence of the existance of many historic characters is much less than that of the bible.

Also, what do you mean by plate tectonics requiring millions of years to operate? They are constantly operating. Forgive me for any misunderstanding but I just don't see your point.

And BTW I promise I will have some info on the age of the earth ASAP. However, I'm not an expert in the matter. There's someone I know who basically is, and it may take a while for me to contact him.

The bible is a mix of fiction and fact, but the facts are distorted in myth. So, the statement that "The Bible is quite historical" is misleading. The bible must be taken in context of the people how wrote it. To compare the bible to a history book is to miss the point of the bible.

For South America to Separate from Africa, it took millions of years.

Originally posted by Gregory
No theory has been "proved." No scientific statement, ever, has been "proved." But they're so well-supported that it would be moronic to try to wave them off.

I'd be frustrated with you, but I did say you didn't understand scientific theories in my first post, and the speed with which you provided evidence for this was down-right courteous.

...What I was saying was that those two theories not are not scientific law. Therefore, the Bible does not go against scientific claims. It does however have some interesting scientific facts in it that weren't present at the time. For example, it refers to the earth being round, and some other things.
I'll have scriptural reference when I get that guy to send me his research. Just be patient.
And another thing, please refrain from your insults, as they are frustrating.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.

Hitler had followers as well.

Originally posted by Shin_Gouken
1. Yes but God doesn't teach Christians that they should go around killing all the nonbelievers. In fact, he teaches to endure persecution from others and to "turn the other cheek."

Let us see what the Bible has to say about non-believers:





Originally posted by Shin_Gouken

Evolution: THEORY

The Big Bang: THEORY

Relativity: THEORY

I do not suppose that you are going to question whether or not gravity exists.

Originally posted by Punker69
Like I said, I could care less what Islam says. Jesus was the Messiah and he claimed to be the savior. He said "He who hath seen me hath seen the father" and if we're going to play the "messenger" game that dissprove that scripture. Why do you think the apostles in the Acts baptized in the name of Jesus and cast out devils and healed the sick in his name? Because he's the Messiah and they understood this.

A book written by humans? Who is your book written by? Aliens?

he is not a muslim ,so it's not his book anyway

The earth is 4 500.000.000 years old according to science.
The bible says it only exists 6000 years.

There are archeological finds older than 6000 years, that's a proof, and how about the Mesozoicum, paleozoicum and that shit.

Originally posted by Da preacher
The earth is 4 500.000.000 years old according to science.
The bible says it only exists 6000 years.

There are archeological finds older than 6000 years, that's a proof, and how about the Mesozoicum, paleozoicum and that shit.

Where does it say this?

Originally posted by Punker69
You forgot one.

Jesus died and rose again, Muhammed died.

Oh wait, thats not right.... If he rose again, what did he do after? Or doesn't anyone know yet? It's been 2000 years. What the hell happened?

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Except Islam is 500 years out of date because Muhammed was born 500 years after Jesus. Think about it. Look at Islam today and Christianity 500 years ago.

Jesus is the son of god, Muhammed is the son of god.
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.
Christians killed all the non-believers, Muslims killed the non-believers.
Christians moved west to escape the strict rules, Muslims moved west to escape the strict rules.
Christians have Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslims have Sunny vs. Shyite.
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.

So why are you fighting when your religion is roughly the same thing?

Wow, someone has a bit of reading to do.

I hate organized religion as much as the next agnostic, but read up on your facts before you post. You're giving us a horrible name.

Originally posted by Da preacher
The earth is 4 500.000.000 years old according to science.
The bible says it only exists 6000 years.

There are archeological finds older than 6000 years, that's a proof, and how about the Mesozoicum, paleozoicum and that shit.

Yeah, where does the Bible say that? Do some scripture reading of the first two verses of Genesis. The gap Between those to verses could've been millions of years. But thats a whole different discussion all together.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
If he rose again, what did he do after? Or doesn't anyone know yet? It's been 2000 years. What the hell happened?

Read the Bible.

No, don't read the bible. I'll tell you the ending. We all die.......

Originally posted by debbiejo
No, don't read the bible. I'll tell you the ending. We all die.......

Some live...forever....

Originally posted by debbiejo
No, don't read the bible. I'll tell you the ending. We all die.......

duh! v all WILL die,or won't v?like shaky said "some live 4ever?"

Originally posted by Punker69
Yeah, where does the Bible say that? Do some scripture reading of the first two verses of Genesis. The gap Between those to verses could've been millions of years. But thats a whole different discussion all together.
Actually, the rough estimate of six thousand years is done by some Bible scholar who added up the lifetimes etc. etc. of people and the events.

Though it's off topic to ramble about this, I'd like to point out that strict Creationism is pretty flimsy for a theory. And what separates creation theory from scientific theory is criteria and standards. For those of you who don't know all the criteria for a scientific theory, I suggest you educate yourselves. It's not just any ol' guess. And don't let the term 'theory' baffle you- it's grounded in the best information providable, unlike the idea that the eart is around 6,000 years old but we still have starlight in the sky that is well beyond that in age.

And back on topic, Islam and Christianity aren't the same thing. Even a relative ignoramus on the topic like me can see that.

Originally posted by MC Mike
Muhammed the son of allah? You need to recheck your sources. Allah is what they calll god.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Let us see what the Bible has to say about non-believers:







Relativity: THEORY

I do not suppose that you are going to question whether or not gravity exists. they do.

Everything against the bible is classed as evil.
Everything against the quron is classed as evil.

I said 500 years before. So don't look at the bible today because it always gets re-writen. Look at the bible 500 years ago. Slaving the non-believers, wars between beliefrs, immigrating to new lands. Didn't anyone bother to read it all? Or do you christians believe that the world has never changed and every text book is wrong. Do you honestly believe that development over time doesn't exist?

The only thing that i find interesting about biblical dates for the creation of the world is that it pretty much coincides with the final extinction of Neanderthals.

And a few other humanoid cousins. They suspect that there were small groups of humanoids even into the ADs.

true, hobbits died out about that time, and what people in the himalayas call the yeti is probably Paranthropus Gigantopithecus based on hair recovered.

They prefer little people, dude. Little people.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5831/jalad3wo.jpg

all these holidays from the bible are from druids. So by celebrating eater, you're celebrating a stolen holiday representing the birth of summer.

back to the topic plz! or is it already over?

Originally posted by maham
back to the topic plz! or is it already over? okay. Are you a muslim?

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Except Islam is 500 years out of date because Muhammed was born 500 years after Jesus. Think about it. Look at Islam today and Christianity 500 years ago.

Jesus is the son of god, Muhammed is the son of god.
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.
Christians killed all the non-believers, Muslims killed the non-believers.
Christians moved west to escape the strict rules, Muslims moved west to escape the strict rules.
Christians have Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslims have Sunny vs. Shyite.
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.

So why are you fighting when your religion is roughly the same thing?

Problem, the bible doesn't actually say you are allowed to kill non-believers, the king/Queen said you were allowed and because noone else could read then they believed what he/she said. Plus the people of them days were scared of god.

And the bible says nothing against science, science says crazy things against the bible (evolution for example)

hate to burst your bubble but evolution has not been thought up just for the sake of bringin crazy allegations against the oh so righteous relegion and followers of christ. people actually DO have better aims then that, like the advancement of understanding etc.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
hate to burst your bubble but evolution has not been thought up just for the sake of bringin crazy allegations against the oh so righteous relegion and followers of christ. people actually DO have better aims then that, like the advancement of understanding etc.

Interesting fact: someone who is deceitful will assume that everyone else is also deceitful. This is also true when it comes to groups of people, so a religion that assumes all other beliefs are deceitful is one that is deceitful its self.

yes and i havent yet seen a relegion more deceitful than islam.

That's a vicious stereotype. Coupled with some horrid spelling.

Originally posted by Wesker
Actually, the rough estimate of six thousand years is done by some Bible scholar who added up the lifetimes etc. etc. of people and the events.

Though it's off topic to ramble about this, I'd like to point out that strict Creationism is pretty flimsy for a theory. And what separates creation theory from scientific theory is criteria and standards. For those of you who don't know all the criteria for a scientific theory, I suggest you educate yourselves. It's not just any ol' guess. And don't let the term 'theory' baffle you- it's grounded in the best information providable, unlike the idea that the eart is around 6,000 years old but we still have starlight in the sky that is well beyond that in age.

And back on topic, Islam and Christianity aren't the same thing. Even a relative ignoramus on the topic like me can see that.

Yes, the earth is six thousand years old since Adam. But scripture proves a world before Adam and Eve. One that God originaly destroyed probably because of Satans rebellion. It is my understanding that this where Dinosaurs could've came from and why scientist can estimate the world to be millions or billions of years old.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Let us see what the Bible has to say about non-believers:


If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly saying, "Let us go and serve other gods (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end)," you shall not yield to him or listen to him, and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him.

But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

The rule stated above falls under the law intended for the Israelites. The laws God gives in Deuteronomy are still the same rules that he wants us to live by, but the consequences are different. God sent his grace through Jesus, so the consequences we have now are nowhere near as final as in Deuteronomy.


Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Relativity: THEORY

I do not suppose that you are going to question whether or not gravity exists.

All theories have varying acceptability based on there evidence. The Big Bang and Evolution theories are still arguable. The theory of relativity on the other hand has undeniable evidence.


Originally posted by Da preacher
The earth is 4 500.000.000 years old according to science.
The bible says it only exists 6000 years.

There are archeological finds older than 6000 years, that's a proof, and how about the Mesozoicum, paleozoicum and that shit.

The dating system scientists use involves the time frame for the decay of a radioactive parent isotope into a stable daughter product. Depending on how much the substance has decayed, the older it is right? Well, consider this: If God created everything, is he not allowed to create a Lead-206 isotope?

id like to say that what we believe is a day, is could be a lot different than a day to God. Thus the creation of seven days. Seven days, when the animals were created BEFORE the people could be maybe 1 million days in our standards. Since there is eternal life, God will be alive or the sense of the word, forever, so one day to him, again, might be much longer to us. About what one of you said about the myth thing, it is true that there is fiction in the Bible, but the whole point is to get a point across. So yes, not 100% of the Bible may be true, as the Bible must be extremely old and rewritten, might not be translated 100% either. I go to Religious Education, where if you ask questions, some of these pointless arguments can be solved.

Originally posted by Punker69
Yes, the earth is six thousand years old since Adam. But scripture proves a world before Adam and Eve. One that God originaly destroyed probably because of Satans rebellion. It is my understanding that this where Dinosaurs could've came from and why scientist can estimate the world to be millions or billions of years old.

I'd love to see exact passages, if you don't mind. I haven't come across any in my copy that support an earth before man, but then I haven't read the entire thing yet.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Except Islam is 500 years out of date because Muhammed was born 500 years after Jesus. Think about it. Look at Islam today and Christianity 500 years ago.

Jesus is the son of god, Muhammed is the son of god.
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.
Christians killed all the non-believers, Muslims killed the non-believers.
Christians moved west to escape the strict rules, Muslims moved west to escape the strict rules.
Christians have Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslims have Sunny vs. Shyite.
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.

So why are you fighting when your religion is roughly the same thing?

so why is many people still following the bible and not koran? koran seems more up to date ....... time to convert everyone!

Human beings would be better off not having factioned religions, actually. Organized religion is just another barrier in a world that's only getting smaller.

Originally posted by Wesker
I'd love to see exact passages, if you don't mind. I haven't come across any in my copy that support an earth before man, but then I haven't read the entire thing yet.

Genesis 1:1

"In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earht"

We know by scripture that God's work is perfect.

Dueteronomy 32:4 "....his work is perfect..."

Genesis 1:2

"And the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was moved upon the face of the waters"

Without form and void are terms used for wasteland and a uninhabitable place. We see from the verse in Duet that God's work is perfect.

Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited"

We see that God ORIGINALLY created the earth to be inhabited. But something happen in between verse 1 and 2 that made the earth from being Gods perfect creation to an uninhabitable wasteland.

A prophet uses whats called double reference in Ezekiel 28:12-15. He was adressing the King of Tyrus while also making references to Lucifer.

He said things like Ezekiel 28:12"...thou sealest up the sum,full of wisdom and beauty...

Ezekiel 28:13 "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius,topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold; the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that wast created"

We see here that Satan was in Eden while a king of some sort. Not while he was a fallen angel and tempting Eve.


We see in Isaiah 14:13-14

Lucifer said "I will ascend into heaven" (meaning he wasn't in heaven and since the HEAVENS and the EARTH were the only things created there's was only one other place he could be, earth) "I will ascend aboe the clouds" meaning Satan was on earth looking up at the heavens.

All and All, alot of stuff seemed to happen before Adam and Eve. This period of time could've been millions or billions of years. No one knows.

It is my understanding that maybe God wiped out everything after Satan rebelled aginst God. When all the power of ruling over the earth Got to Satans head he tried to overthrow God. He wiped out the heavens and flooded the earth (known as the Pre-Ademic flood)
Look at some of the verbs God uses when creating earth "like, made, gathered, divide,set" these verbs mark permission more than creation.

Also he said to Adam in Genesis 1:28 "Be fruitful, mulitply, and replenish the earth. These are the same instructions and blessing God gave Noah in Gensis 9:1 after God flooded the earth.

All and All scriptures give reference to there being creation before the seven days and this was probably the place where the millions and billions of years scientist talk about happened.

Originally posted by Shin_Gouken
The rule stated above falls under the law intended for the Israelites. The laws God gives in Deuteronomy are still the same rules that he wants us to live by, but the consequences are different. God sent his grace through Jesus, so the consequences we have now are nowhere near as final as in Deuteronomy.





Originally posted by Shin_Gouken
All theories have varying acceptability based on there evidence. The Big Bang and Evolution theories are still arguable. The theory of relativity on the other hand has undeniable evidence.

By your own admission, the evidence for relativity is undeniable, yet it remains a scientific theory and not a scientific law. This is because a scientific law must be confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.

Originally posted by Punker69
Yes, the earth is six thousand years old since Adam. But scripture proves a world before Adam and Eve. One that God originaly destroyed probably because of Satans rebellion. It is my understanding that this where Dinosaurs could've came from and why scientist can estimate the world to be millions or billions of years old.

You'd be a kickass fantasy author. Just throw in some mythril, a magic sword, and maybe spice things up with an alliance between Satan and Cthullu. Oh, and dinosaurs breathe fire and the flintstones are an accurate depiction of this "preearth"

Originally posted by debbiejo
Never heard that Muhammed was the son of god.
Actually Jesus never said he was the son of god either as in a God.

Exactly. Muhammed was the prophet only.

I hate how people always go "We know from the scriptures that God is all perfect/good/powerful/etc." That's just downright blind faith right there.

Originally posted by Wesker
I hate how people always go "We know from the scriptures that God is all perfect/good/powerful/etc." That's just downright blind faith right there.

Thats the best kind of faith.

And we do know from scripture that God's work is always perfect.

Originally posted by Punker69
Thats the best kind of faith.

And we do know from scripture that God's work is always perfect.

But what is perfect?

Perfection is an idea unrealized in nature, and assuming that God is perfect based on a two thousand year old book is a lot like this:

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6213/chances5yp.png

Originally posted by Punker69
Thats the best kind of faith.

And we do know from scripture that God's work is always perfect. what did god do? Do you honestly believe everything a scroll says? YOU ARE A ****ING MORON.

Originally posted by Punker69
Thats the best kind of faith.

And we do know from scripture that God's work is always perfect.

Read Genesis dumbass,
Blind faith is a sin

Could you please all express your opinions without putting down other members?

sure, it's just this particular member have proven in the past and present to possess a massive wealth of ignorance.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Except Islam is 500 years out of date because Muhammed was born 500 years after Jesus. Think about it. Look at Islam today and Christianity 500 years ago.

Jesus is the son of god, Muhammed is the son of god.
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.
Christians killed all the non-believers, Muslims killed the non-believers.
Christians moved west to escape the strict rules, Muslims moved west to escape the strict rules.
Christians have Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslims have Sunny vs. Shyite.
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.

So why are you fighting when your religion is roughly the same thing?

1. Muhammad isn't the son of God (nor is Christ).
2. Yeah so? I have followers 2.
3. ALL the non-believers, don't think so.
4. Come again?
5. So?
6. No they don't.

What might have been some arguements is that the Quran is based on the bible, it's actually the same God, Jesus is in both...etc.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Read Genesis dumbass,
Blind faith is a sin You keep saying that, but I don't see that anywhere........You're referring to something that is not written down blatantly........This is something that Christians are know for.........reaching and reading into things.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But what is perfect?

Its not that.

Its the fact that in verse two the earth is described as being an uninhabitable wasteland.

The words "without form" are from the Hebrew word tohu which means waste or desolation. The word void comes from the Hebrew word bohu which means empty or in ruin.

The words used together like that in the second verse of Gensis are, In Hebrew, tohu wabohu. Its used in Jeremiah 4:23 to desribe divine judgement by God as a result of sin.

We dont even have to go into translations. Its common sense. When God creates something he doesn't do it in vain. We see in Isaiah 45:18 that God ORIGINALLY created it to be inhabited and a good place. This contradicts the second verse of scripture which states that it was a place that could not be inhabited and was a wasteland.

This proves a large gap in between those two verses. A gap that could've been millions of years.

And the words "Void" and without form" mean exactly what to you?........Is it only biblical, or could it mean something else that was more metaphorical?

I think if God meant something else he would've made it know. But VOID and WITHOUT FORM are strong words used for something that God created "not in vain" and "to be inhabited"

No, they dont mean anything else. It means just like it reads, VOID AND WITHOUT FORM. Which means an uninhabitable wasteland. The end.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
theres no proof of his rising again. oddly enough muslims believe that jesus was never crucified and was taken into the heavens before he could be crucified and god made sum1 else look like him and people crucified that man and that jesus will return one day to earth to kill darjal{the enti christ}and will live the remainder of his days on earth with muslims, lead them to vectory and die, to be burried by muslims who would also attend his funeral.

No proof? His tomb is empty. Yeah ppl can say that his followers stole his body. But that wld take 10 men to open his tomb in the middle of the night with roman gaurds around. 500 saw jesus ascended.

This will help

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

Originally posted by Darkman87
Exactly. Muhammed was the prophet only.

If u read thwe Quran....Muhammed called Jesus the sinless one...accepted the virgin birth. Accepted the Jesus command over death, even the mosque all over the world wld bow down to Jesus when he comes back to earth. Why Muhammed even called Jesus the MESSAIAH.

There is massive job discrimination against muslims as well as violence against turkish muslims, esecially in parts of the UK that are traditional bastions for the national front, and also Germany and France.

back on topic, I find it ironic that due to the constantine ordered sanitation of the new testament, the Koran actually has a lot more Jesus in it and is much more Jesus focussed than the christian bible which actually focusses more on mary than jesus by comparison.

i just realized that half of that post was meant for a different theard, sorry

How do u know if jesus was in both ????

Originally posted by Bowser jr
How do u know if jesus was in both ???? Jesus=Muhammed. Except for the fact Muhammed actually wrote the holy book of it's religion.

Originally posted by Bowser jr
How do u know if jesus was in both ???? Jesus=Muhammed. Except for the fact Muhammed actually wrote the holy book of it's religion.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Jesus is the son of god, Muhammed is the son of god.
No. Muhammad never claimed to be anything more than a man.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Jesus had followers, Muhammed had followers.

Yeah, so did every other emperor, religious leader, president or any person with any kind of ideology.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Christians killed all the non-believers, Muslims killed the non-believers.

Again, ignorance.

Christians only became dominant and intolerant later on as the religion evolved from religion into political ideology.
Christians were largely persecuted by Romans.
Nero blamed the burning down of Rome on Christians and ordered killing of any known Christians.
They were murdered and persecuted for years. They took Jesus' 'tu7rn the other cheak'' too literally.

Islam was built on a sword.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Christians moved west to escape the strict rules, Muslims moved west to escape the strict rules.

Again, utter nonsense.

Christianity in the west (for the most part) evolved away from the primitive views. What was west but a strict Christian countries and colonies. Where did the witch hunts happen? In the west - those ARE the Christians - they didn;t escape anywhere - west wasnt by proxy liberal.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Christians have Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslims have Sunny vs. Shyite.

Except that you forget that Catholics and protestant are not the only two main Christian branches - Orthodox, Baptist, Methodists, Coptic, Church of Jesus Christ, Lutherans...etc.

Originally posted by xyz revolution
Bible says crazy things against science, Qu'ran says crazy things against science.

As does every other religious book, how does that show similarities?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
No. Muhammad never claimed to be anything more than a man.



Yeah, so did every other emperor, religious leader, president or any person with any kind of ideology.



Again, ignorance.

Christians only became dominant and intolerant later on as the religion evolved from religion into political ideology.
Christians were largely persecuted by Romans.
Nero blamed the burning down of Rome on Christians and ordered killing of any known Christians.
They were murdered and persecuted for years. They took Jesus' 'tu7rn the other cheak'' too literally.

Islam was built on a sword.



Again, utter nonsense.

Christianity in the west (for the most part) evolved away from the primitive views. What was west but a strict Christian countries and colonies. Where did the witch hunts happen? In the west - those ARE the Christians - they didn;t escape anywhere - west wasnt by proxy liberal.



Except that you forget that Catholics and protestant are not the only two main Christian branches - Orthodox, Baptist, Methodists, Coptic, Church of Jesus Christ, Lutherans...etc.



As does every other religious book, how does that show similarities? 500 years ago not now. Christianity is 500 years older, so you have to look at it 500 years before. And people said Muhammed was like God/Allah's son. As with Jesus.

http://www.google.com/search?hs=W7w&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s& amp;q=%22Christianity+and+Islam+are+the+same%21%22
&btnG=Search

Originally posted by xyz revolution
500 years ago not now. Christianity is 500 years older, so you have to look at it 500 years before. And people said Muhammed was like God/Allah's son. As with Jesus.

Well I find it, first and foremost extreamly rude and ignorant the fact that you are trying to teach ME about a religion I most deffinitivly know more about than you.

i'll say this again, Muhammad was NEVER claimed to be a son of God. NEVER

That is considered a SIN in Islam...do you understand?

And no, the fact that islam came 500 years after Christianity is irrelevant. My religion came 1 000 years BEFORE Islam, yet it is far more moral than Christianity, Judaism and Islam were at any point in their existance.

so thats utter nonsense as well - your whole thread is just bursting with ignorance - learn about it before you attempt to preach to anyone, especialyl those who are more than familiar with the concept of Islam and Christianity.

Damn, pwned.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well I find it, first and foremost extreamly rude and ignorant the fact that you are trying to teach ME about a religion I most deffinitivly know more about than you.

i'll say this again, Muhammad was NEVER claimed to be a son of God. NEVER

That is considered a SIN in Islam...do you understand?

And no, the fact that islam came 500 years after Christianity is irrelevant. My religion came 1 000 years BEFORE Islam, yet it is far more moral than Christianity, Judaism and Islam were at any point in their existance.

so thats utter nonsense as well - your whole thread is just bursting with ignorance - learn about it before you attempt to preach to anyone, especialyl those who are more than familiar with the concept of Islam and Christianity. ermm, sorry?

"Like most people in the entertainment industry, I worship Pan, the goat god"
-Duke Phillips,
CEO of Phillips Broadcasting-Formerly Duke Phillips' House of Chicken and Waffles
-From The Critic

that was a common knowledge in many cultures

Though 6 different times the earth is said to have 4 corners also.....

See, maybe god can make a "Square Circle." after all..........haha

This doesn' t directly relate to the topic, but I' d thought of sharing this news article I ran across today.


Afghan on trial for Christianity

An Afghan man is being tried in a court in Kabul for his conversion from Islam to Christianity.
He could be sentenced to death for the act and his refusal to recant.

The trial of Abdul Rahman reflects the struggle between religious hardliners and reformists over what shape Islam will take in Afghanistan.

Mr Rahman was arrested last month after his estranged family - with whom he was in dispute over the custody of his two children - denounced him as a convert. Mr Rahman, who is 41, was found to be carrying a Bible and was charged with rejecting Islam.

'Attack on Islam'

He acknowledged during his trial that he did convert 16 years ago while a medical aid worker with a Christian group helping Afghani refugees in Pakistan.

The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said he had offered to drop the charges if Mr Rahman would convert back to Islam, but he had refused to do so. Mr Wasi said therefore that Mr Rahman must get the death penalty. The trial judge has also described Mr Rahman' s action as an attack on Islam.

A sentence of death for Mr Rahman would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of the Sharia law on which Afghanistan' s constitution is based.

yeah what a humane religion indeed

Sad there are too many instances of this........Hmmm maybe we should tell Maham in the next thread........hmm.

Originally posted by Storm
This doesn' t directly relate to the topic, but I' d thought of sharing this news article I ran across today.


Afghan on trial for Christianity

An Afghan man is being tried in a court in Kabul for his conversion from Islam to Christianity.
He could be sentenced to death for the act and his refusal to recant.

The trial of Abdul Rahman reflects the struggle between religious hardliners and reformists over what shape Islam will take in Afghanistan.

Mr Rahman was arrested last month after his estranged family - with whom he was in dispute over the custody of his two children - denounced him as a convert. Mr Rahman, who is 41, was found to be carrying a Bible and was charged with rejecting Islam.

'Attack on Islam'

He acknowledged during his trial that he did convert 16 years ago while a medical aid worker with a Christian group helping Afghani refugees in Pakistan.

The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said he had offered to drop the charges if Mr Rahman would convert back to Islam, but he had refused to do so. Mr Wasi said therefore that Mr Rahman must get the death penalty. The trial judge has also described Mr Rahman' s action as an attack on Islam.

A sentence of death for Mr Rahman would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of the Sharia law on which Afghanistan' s constitution is based.

This is a very interesting article. Alathough sad to say not unique case.

I find it extreanly frightening and sometimes unable to comprehand why this is still happening.

Barbaric isn't it...............Truly no freedom of speech or religion, and they want to convert the world to accept.

Afganistan is not the only one though.

Saudi Arabia forbids any kind of religious symbols - carrying a cross around the neck or star of david is a arrestable offence.
Any other religion apart from Islam is banned in Saudi Arabia. However, Saudis spend millions on building Mosques and spreading Islam in USA and other countries where the freedom of religion is present.

http://www.ain-al-yaqeen.com/issues/20020301/feat3en.htm

Yeah hypocritical for sure, because they want to convert a huge nation and have an influence here. There's a mosque not far away, going near Toledo, and funny, It's never been vandalized. And they say we don't treat Muslims well here. We respect their religion. Probably to our own demise.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yeah hypocritical for sure, because they want to convert a huge nation and have an influence here. There's a mosque not far away, going near Toledo, and funny, It's never been vandalized. And they say we don't treat Muslims well here. We respect their religion. Probably to our own demise.

Michigan has the largest Arab population i seem to have heard, is that true?

Yes very much so. And there has never been any violence against them or them towards anyone else. Only some teen squirmishes between Arabs and Blacks....The Detroit Metro area is home to many nationalities that came here for the Automotive Industry amongst others..........One good thing all these nationalities brought with them.....their food!

I hear you sister droolio

Originally posted by O Green World
Problem, the bible doesn't actually say you are allowed to kill non-believers, the king/Queen said you were allowed and because noone else could read then they believed what he/she said. Plus the people of them days were scared of god.

And the bible says nothing against science, science says crazy things against the bible (evolution for example) how is evolution crazy? Explain.