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The universe is huge and it is expanding. It is so large that there has to be intelligent life out there somewhere. Why haven't we had contact from them? Where are they and how advanced are they?

Personally, I think there has to be life out there somewhere. I mean to say that we are the only living organisms in the universe would be completely inconcievable. There has to be something else. Our galaxy started with the big bang, so other galaxies must have started out the same way and must have gone through an evolutionary period similar to the one we went through. There has to be other life out there.

Yes!!! and this is what they look like

Originally posted by stormtrooper501
There has to be something else.

It's possible



The Big bang is a theory by the way.

Life yes, maybe not Humanoid or even intelligent though.

The Drake Equation for determining the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy:

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

Originally posted by stormtrooper501
The universe is huge and it is expanding. It is so large that there has to be intelligent life out there somewhere. Why haven't we had contact from them? Where are they and how advanced are they?

Personally, I think there has to be life out there somewhere. I mean to say that we are the only living organisms in the universe would be completely inconcievable. There has to be something else. Our galaxy started with the big bang, so other galaxies must have started out the same way and must have gone through an evolutionary period similar to the one we went through. There has to be other life out there.

Looks like you're bringing up two different though related things: Is there life out there? and Is there intelligent life out there?

As far as Life goes: I would agree, there has to be something out there. Given how utterly tenacious life is here on Earth, how it thrives in the most God-forsaken environments, my guess is, not only is there life "out there" (meaning, on planets orbiting other stars), but I would not be surprised if we find life/evidence of life (past or present) in several places in our own Solar System. Very likely, most of it will be simple or microbial (nanocrobial?), but life nonetheless.

As for Intelligent life...hell, I'm still wondering if we have that here (aren't we all). Cynicism aside--and as an alternative to the Drake equation--consider the following: it's been estimated that since life began on Earth, there have been some 50 billion different species here (most of which have come and gone). Out of that 50 billion, only 1 -- 1! -- has risen to apparent intelligence and thrived. 1!

If we take this ratio and apply it to the whole Galaxy (just ours, for now) of some 400 billion stars, that means there are only 8 planets where alien intelligence might exist. 8. This would put us at an average 12,000 lightyears from each other.

Regardless, assuming They are out there; Where are they? This is the Fermi paradox, and there have been about a half-dozen proposals as to why we still seem to be alone. One is: they are no where near as advanced as us, meaning no spaceships or even the ability to send out radio signals (which, at 12,000 ly distance, wouldn't be reaching us for a while anyway). Another reason: they are so far ahead of us that we can't even begin to detect them, nor would they wanna bother with us.

How did you get that number? The 8 thing I mean? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Anyways about the question.

Yes there is probaby life out there somewhere and probably life more intelligent then us, and life far less intelligent. The universe is pretty much infinite, so the chances of it just being us are very, very slim...

I find it amusing when humans are considered intelligent...we allow the wool to be pulled over our eyes so much it's...I'll have to get back to ya on that one.

In any case, I agree with Mindship's logic: The chance of intelligent life in our galaxy is amazingly small. If there is, I wish they'd hurry up and invade Earth. The "Powers that Be" deserve nothing more. It'd also be interesting to see the reactions of the religiously devout...

Originally posted by Fishy
How did you get that number? The 8 thing I mean?

Ratio of 1 "intelligent" species out of 50 billion species overall.
Apply that ratio to 400 billion stars in our Galaxy and you get 8.
1 is to 50 bil as 8 is to 400 bil.

But again, this is just a guess using as a place to start the only planet we know which has life. It could be wwaaayyyy off base, in either direction.

But that makes no sense...

You are saying 1 out of 50 billion species (all of which live or have lived on earth) and then suddenly assume that all 400 billion stars in our galaxy only have 1 living being in their system. If this was true, then you would be right, but there could be several times 50 billion's of species in any number of star systems.

This universe is a big place. So what are the odds of a civilization advanced enough to send or receive signals in our time.

Originally posted by Fishy
But that makes no sense...

You are saying 1 out of 50 billion species (all of which live or have lived on earth) and then suddenly assume that all 400 billion stars in our galaxy only have 1 living being in their system. If this was true, then you would be right, but there could be several times 50 billion's of species in any number of star systems.

I understand what you're saying; I should make my position more clear.
I am making a huge, very liberal assumption that each of the 400 billion stars in our Galaxy have one planet where life has arisen. Expanding the ratio of Intelligent to Nonintelligent life on Earth to cover the whole Galaxy, then only 1 out of every 50 billion planets has intelligent life on it.

The Drake equation is a much more thorough approach, but even that has been used to estimate that maybe no more than 10 planets in our Galaxy has intelligent life on it (Carl Sagan highlighted this in one of his "Cosmos" episodes).

Well yeah I can understand that theory, I just find it unlikely that a planet would really only develop one species... Especially if Earth has created 50 billion, if a planet like this can create that much then it would seem logical that other planets can create an equal amount of beings or more or maybe a bit less....

i mean the universe is pretty much infinite, we don't know how far it goes if there is anything beyond what we know off or not... I mean in a potentially infinite area, we could very well have billions of intelligent species or perhaps you are right and there are only 8 intelligent species out there. Of course I'm not really all that good with science so perhaps I can be proven completely wrong by scientific theory's that I in no way understand, but if thats the case then I don't really want to understand them either...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The Drake Equation for determining the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy:

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

The big problem with the Drake Equation and it's pessimism is that it tries to explain how infeasible it is for life to have developed and achieved space travel within the set time period of about four to ten billion years (I think. It's been a few years since I went over it). The odds are pretty astronomical. But the idea of simply having intelligent life isn't so far off. Likewise, you can shuffle two decks of cards and draw thirteen of them. The odds of you getting those cards again is well into the billions, but it'd be against common sense to deny that you DO have those particular cards.

I would not be surprised if our Galaxy was teeming with life. Primitive, microbial mostly, but life. And scattered throughout the stars, astronomically rare, would be alien intelligence and technology. Just in a few places, at different stages and under different circumstances.

Our understanding of life comes from life here on earth. A lot of the assumptions we've made come from a very limited source.

I would say that there is at least ONE civilization out in each galaxy i would say... though as said before it isn't required to be intellectual in any way

I believe whole heartedly there is a multitude of intelligent life in our universe. The question is, would be realize it's intelligence? Does a dust mite recognize our intelligence?

There'd better be... or else I want my money back for that Intergalactic Life Tour I payed for...

Out there? Maybe. In here? No

maybe out there but not on here I mean some of the people are a little eh you know?

Yes theres most likely every kind of life you can imagine spread over infinate worlds. Whoever made everything wouldn't make us and then just stop. What kinda sense would that make?

Intelligence is relative first of all...

If we define 'intelligent life' as having similar or greater intellectual abilities to ourselves *cough* egocentric *cough* then I would say probably since the universe is such a big place afterall...I mean if the Universe is infinite wouldnt that mean there is an infinite chance of there being other intelligent life out there??? My reasoning is likely flawed somewhere but oh well.

um......wrong defenition of intelligence man. It's not a scale to be compared........making anything relative to anything else.

Intelligence as used in the phrase "intelligent life" simply means life that is self aware, not bound by nor confined to instinct.

for example, most higher apes are considered intelligent life. Many use tools, they are not bound by instinct....they have used intelligence to create a tool or create a use for a naturally existing tool.

Hey, I'm Intelligent and I'm "out there"................haha

Originally posted by debbiejo
Hey, I'm Intelligent and I'm "out there"................haha
I'd say one out of two.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
um......wrong defenition of intelligence man. It's not a scale to be compared........making anything relative to anything else.

Intelligence as used in the phrase "intelligent life" simply means life that is self aware, not bound by nor confined to instinct.

for example, most higher apes are considered intelligent life. Many use tools, they are not bound by instinct....they have used intelligence to create a tool or create a use for a naturally existing tool.


Intelligence is indeed relative, a scale like you said. Your description of 'intelligence' is just the byproduct of our higher intelligence in comparison to the lower intelligence of animals. Being self-aware does not equal some kind of true intelligence, it is arrogant to think that way, an alien lifeform of higher intelligence than us would have abilities we couldnt fathom...does that mean they have some kind of 'true' intelligence and we are completely void of it? No.

whatever man........

when science looks for intelligent life, there is no scale of comparison. Intelligence itself is not comparative, either a species or individual has it or it doesn't. what you are describing is the very layman and wrong definiton of intelligence used in society, "I'm more intelligent than this guy over here, I'm smarter"........that is not the scientifc definition and is not applicable to anything dealing with scientific search or research.

but hey......think what you want to think.......hell, you have the right to type your thoughts at great length on the internet regardless of it's validity.......have fun excersising that right.

"Intelligent life" is generally meant to be creatures able to use abstract symbols (as in mathematics)--in combination with a self-aware perspective beyond the here-and-now--in solving problems; creatures capable of building complex tools, especially (but not necessarily) a powered technology.

A chimp or dolphin is intelligent but (so far) they manifest no evidence of abstract-symbol using or problem-solving involving a perspective with "long-term" foresight. If we found chimp/dolphin analogs on another planet, we might regard them as intelligent, but not "alien intelligence" as in an analog to ourselves (which could well be a mistake on our part).

A farming community, however, would be considered "intelligence." So would, obviously, spaceflight.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
whatever man........

when science looks for intelligent life, there is no scale of comparison. Intelligence itself is not comparative, either a species or individual has it or it doesn't. what you are describing is the very layman and wrong definiton of intelligence used in society, "I'm more intelligent than this guy over here, I'm smarter"........that is not the scientifc definition and is not applicable to anything dealing with scientific search or research.

but hey......think what you want to think.......hell, you have the right to type your thoughts at great length on the internet regardless of it's validity.......have fun excersising that right.


Intelligence is defined as the ability to learn or understand and deal with new or trying situations. Your really making no sense here man...most animals have these abilities even if it is at an extremely primitive level. You say "Im more intelligent than this guy over here" is the wrong use of the word intelligence, nope...If guy A shows better ability to learn or understand and deal with new or trying situations than guy B than guy A is 'smarter'.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/intelligence

now try the third defenition of the word, understanding. That is the defenition as it relates to science, intelligent life. There is no scale to ascribe if a lifeform has the ability to understand. It simply does or it doesn't, as stated earlier.........your scale only applies if it does infact already have intelligence. Whether you percieve an alien intelligence to be on par with our own is irrelevant, the simple fact of them having the ability to understand classifies them as intelligent life......no matter how you would rate them compared to yourself or civilization.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/intelligence

now try the third defenition of the word, understanding. That is the defenition as it relates to science, intelligent life. There is no scale to ascribe if a lifeform has the ability to understand. It simply does or it doesn't, as stated earlier.........your scale only applies if it does infact already have intelligence. Whether you percieve an alien intelligence to be on par with our own is irrelevant, the simple fact of them having the ability to understand classifies them as intelligent life......no matter how you would rate them compared to yourself or civilization.


Well firstly your using only part of the complete definition, but whatever...

The main mistake your making is that you think animals are not capable of any understanding whatsoever. Scientists have trouble deducting exactly how much animals do understand, but they know most animals are capable of it however limited it may be. By your own argument, if a being is capable of some understanding then it is intelligent and my scale applies.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Intelligence is relative first of all...

If we define 'intelligent life' as having similar or greater intellectual abilities to ourselves *cough* egocentric *cough* then I would say probably since the universe is such a big place afterall...I mean if the Universe is infinite wouldnt that mean there is an infinite chance of there being other intelligent life out there??? My reasoning is likely flawed somewhere but oh well.

The universe is not infinite. However, it is expanding. Astronomers know where the edge of the universe is, but it will continue to expand for eons to come. It is not infinite though.

This is a topic of conversation that I have had many times before, and after reading all the posts that have been made in this thread, I would like to offer my own opinion.

There are some of us who think that there must be life elsewhere in the Universe, for it is far to vast and extreme for us to be the only ones...though on the other hand there are some that think that we are the only beings.

I believe that there is Intelligent life elsewhere, but one has to take into consideration the fact of just how large the Universe is.

Humans have been on Earth for only 2 Million years, and space travel for us has only been in the last 50 years. We have broken the sound barrier, but haven't achieved Light Speed travel as of yet, so it would take us as Humans an eterntity to travel anywhere in our Universe, let alone our own Galaxy.

But in thinking about this, who is to say that a civilization on a different planet would be far more advanced than us? That they would have achieved the knowledge of light speed travel so that they could explore the universe as we have not.

I do believe that there is life out there, but in order to find that life, I do believe that it will be us seeking them out, rather than them seeking us.

Originally posted by stormtrooper501
The universe is huge and it is expanding. It is so large that there has to be intelligent life out there somewhere. Why haven't we had contact from them? Where are they and how advanced are they?

Personally, I think there has to be life out there somewhere. I mean to say that we are the only living organisms in the universe would be completely inconcievable. There has to be something else. Our galaxy started with the big bang, so other galaxies must have started out the same way and must have gone through an evolutionary period similar to the one we went through. There has to be other life out there.

You know I ask myself that question everyday right when I walk out of my house and start to talk to other people around me

Geez........nobody wants to call this guy out on this bullshit line?

here

I am still looking for intelligent life down here...

On another note, I read some of those equations, about the probability of there being intelligent *snigger* life "out there". And I came to the conclusion (not very original) that with enough manipulation and assumptions you can make your figures say anything. You can make your figures say there is a 100% chance, because look, it happened once therefore it will happen again. Or you can use another argument, saying we are unique, no way will the exact same conditions that gave us our opportunity ever arise again.

The main thing is, it is pure speculation.

I WANT to believe there are alien races out there, people we can talk to, but then, when I was a kid, I also wanted to believe in Christmas Father. My conclusion? If there is an intelligent race, watching us, it is out of morbid curiosity, to see what new way we are going to invent to torture our fellow-man with next. Or out of self-protection, in case we become a danger to them.

But I have a feeling (call me an optimist) that we WILL meet our neighbours, one day, when we have evolved far enough to be allowed to move into a decent neighboorhood. When our neighbours won't be afraid to come and ask if they can borrow the lawn-mower, because we might shoot them with a nuclear bomb because they look funny or said something mean about our god/sport/politics/art...

The bible says god created other creutures nto of this planet. I don't know what scripture it is, so for now my opinon is moot, but I'll find it eventualy.

Drake's equation aside.....

the conditions that allowed life on this planet are the same conditions at the time of creation of all planets. Extremely hot.......and hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe. Those two things, heat and hydrogen is what caused life on our planet......

Originally posted by Evil Dead
Geez........nobody wants to call this guy out on this bullshit line?

According to Lewis Black, the edge of the universe is in Austin. There, there's a Starbucks... And across the street from it? Another Starbucks.

lol

sadly.........that's probably where stormtrooper501 got his information.