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Sabers only...

Sabers only.

Obi Wan. With Soresu he is basically THE Jedi wall. Sidious I think uses Ataru does he not? Ben would just tire him out and then decapitate him.

I don't think anyone has broken his guard when he was a Soresu master... but I think Sidious might be able to do it. Sidious pwns with force powers though.

Of course. But saber only I am leaning more to Ben's side.

He defended against Grievous who was wailing on him with six lightsabers. Ben definately isn't a pushover (*cough* Anakin *cough*)

Sidious, with some difficulty. Considering he wiped out three Jedi Masters in seconds, one who rivaled Obi-Wan himself, I don't see him losing this. Kenobi would give him hell with his Soresu mastery, but I don't see him actually winning.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Of course. But saber only I am leaning more to Ben's side.

He defended against Grievous who was wailing on him with six lightsabers. Ben definately isn't a pushover (*cough* Anakin *cough*)

Four, unless Grievous suddenly sprouted a pair of invisible limbs and sabers. . .

Originally posted by Faunus
Four, unless Grievous suddenly sprouted a pair of invisible limbs and sabers. . .

Sorry, thought Vishnu for a second

Sidious, though not by much, he was able to destroy three of the council's most powerful masters, he's the dark side equivelant(well he's not equal but he's quite close to) Yoda, who in fact told obi-won himself that he couldn't stand up to sids.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Sorry, thought Vishnu for a second

Vishnu's very rarely depicted with six arms; the more common depiction of him - and the other two of the Hindu triad - is with four.

zOMG! A-q-ruh-c!

Vishnu pwns joo!

I think what Yoda told Obiwan implied that overall Obi Wan will never be powerful enough to defeat Sidious. However judging by the saber abilities I would say Obiwan could take this. Sidious didn't exactly impress me with his saber abilities, I'd think even Anakin could take him..

I think Sidious takes this. Kit was about as good as Obi-wan and Sidious killed him in seconds. Obi-wan will last longer the Kit, I think, but he doesn't stand a chance of winning.

If that's the case how does yoda(a much much better swordsman then obi-won) not chop sidious into kibble n bits? Sidious even had dooku(who in my opinion would wreck obi in a fight) subservient to him. To be fair even if you're not a sidious fan he either beat(some would say survived) a dual with yoda who's far better, killed three jedi masters all rivaling obi in skill in a blink and had dooku, arguably superior to obi subservient to him.

Dooku is a better duelist than Sidious. Yoda is a better duelist than Dooku. I retract my previous statement. I was thinking that obiwan beat anakin, anakin can beat Sidious, so Obiwan can beat Sidious, but that argument is obviously faulty.. Sidious would take Obiwan in a hard fight.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Vishnu pwns joo!

Teh Chakra pwns u!

is that sarcasm? To be fair sidious pwned yoda who pwned dooku who got rocked by anakin whose equal in all but intelligence to obi, so sidious>yoda>ob1

Sidious didn't pwn Yoda. Sidious and Yoda stalemated with Sidious having the upper ground the whole fight, so logically if it was on the same level, Yoda would have beaten Sidious. And actually Yoda was winning at the end of the fight, as you see Sidious and his "Oh shit im screwed" look. Yoda didn't pwn Dooku but he would have, and Dooku is a far better duelist than Sidious.

Originally posted by tdtd
Sidious didn't pwn Yoda. Sidious and Yoda stalemated with Sidious having the upper ground the whole fight, so logically if it was on the same level, Yoda would have beaten Sidious. And actually Yoda was winning at the end of the fight, as you see Sidious and his "Oh shit im screwed" look. Yoda didn't pwn Dooku but he would have, and Dooku is a far better duelist than Sidious.

Indeed.

And Zephiel, Sidious uses Niman.

scratch that

Truth be told, Even if yoda is more powerful, dooku isn't he would have tried to usurp the sith if he was, end of story. As for yoda, sidious outsmarted him and used his ressources to his advantage better then yoda, in the end he caught a lucky break but again it doesn't matter as this is a saber dual not a force power dual.

Originally posted by Tarvos
Indeed.

And Zephiel, Sidious uses Niman.
No...

Yes he does.

He uses... your mom!! Oh snap! Oh burn!

lol anyways that is enough of me and my bad jokes.

I thought Sids used Ataru since he was fighting like Yoda.

According to Sources Sidious mastered some, if not all forms of saber technique with the exception of Vaapad. However he's still relatively weak in terms of saber combat. Yes he outsmarted Yoda, yet Yoda won in the end regardless. Dooku didn't try to overthrow Palpatine because of fear. He was afraid of Palpatine. From what we know he was superior to Palpatine in saber combat, but Palpatine was beyond him in the force.

Originally posted by Tarvos
Yes he does.
Hmm, I always thought that he used Ataru too. But I'm probably wrong.

Read what I wrote.

Sidious would win. Last I heard Kit Fisto was better then Obi-Wan in saber abilities and look what Sids did to Kit (plus 2 other master and Windu at the same time). Obi-Wan could last a while, seeing as Form III basically means your up for a long fight, but Obi couldn't actually win. I mean Sids was defending and attacking against Yoda quite handily in their duel, I doubt Obi could actually beat Sidious. The only way he lasts is if he just completely defends, in which case its prolly a stalemate.

I wouldn't put Sidious above Anakin in lightsaber combat so maybe if Obiwan can keep his defenses up they'll stalemate, but I don't see him winning. Sidious can come up with some pretty tricky stuff due to the fact that he knows all of the forms, although he isn't necessary a master of them all.

You know, zephiel7's right. Dooku had to use the Force to get to Kenobi and Sidious really isn't much better than Dooku with a blade. Grievous and vader failed to get past his blade. So did the Clones in the Temple and the Magnaguards. So I think Kenobi takes this, but it lasts a long time cause Sidious'd be attacking him and it'd take a long time for Obi-Wan to get past Sidious's blade, too. Actually, Obi-Wan might get tired before he can and then he'd lose. Either way, though, it'd be close.

How do you know that Dooku couldn't have taken out Obi-wan with just lightsabers? He was after all fighting Obi-wan AND Anakin at the same time. If it had been just Obi-wan, Dooku probably could have taken him down rather quickly even without the force.

Sidious takes this. Obi-wan might last 30 seconds, but no way will he win nor stalemate Sidious.

Right, Dooku is superior to Sidious in force combat, but Sidious is a notch above Obiwan. We could say Obiwan's defense is impenetrable or we could say Obiwan trained Anakin, therefore he knew how to fight, therefore he was able to hold him off. I don't know how Obiwan would do against someone that knows 6 of the 7 fighting styles.

If Dooku was superior to Sidious then why was he the apprentice? I think if he even re motley stepped out of line, Sidious would tear him a new *******. You see the look of fear on his face when he says, "kill him....do it!" I think he feared Sidious more than death from Anakin and thats why he didn't dime him out to Anakin. Sidious kills OB1 quickly. Even Yoda says he's not strong enough to fight Sidous.

Because Dooku feared Sidious that's why. And Sidious would have destroyed Dooku because he was superior to Dooku in Force abilities. That's like asking why Obiwan was the apprentice when he was a better duelist than his master Qui Gon.

Palpatine would destroy Obi Won. In my opinion he is a better duelist then Dooku who could easily outduel Kenobi with a saber. I base my opinion primarily on the fact that he was able to dispose of three great jedi masters in less than 10 seconds, he was able to deal with Yoda better then Dooku was (and I'm talking about the duel in the beginning of their battle) and was able to give Mace Windu (who is a saber god) a bit of trouble.

Except that he wasn't able to deal with Yoda better, except that in the book Yoda disarmed Sidious. Dooku is superior to Sidious in saber combat. Sidious is superior to Dooku in force abilities.

And Borbarad mentioned that in the original script for AOTC, Yoda disarmed Dooku and jumped on his shoulders ready to kill him.

Ah.. Dooku was said to be Mace's equal, while Sidious was a notch below Mace. So Dooku>Sidious in sabers

Who said that Dooku was Mace's equal. Mace was leagues ahead of Dooku.

No he wasn't. In fact Dooku and Mace were both equals, a little below Yoda but the best of their time and the best duelers in centuries..

Originally posted by tdtd
Right, Dooku is superior to Sidious in force combat, but Sidious is a notch above Obiwan. We could say Obiwan's defense is impenetrable or we could say Obiwan trained Anakin, therefore he knew how to fight, therefore he was able to hold him off. I don't know how Obiwan would do against someone that knows 6 of the 7 fighting styles.

yousaid Dooku was superior to Sidious in force combat.

Originally posted by tdtd
Because Dooku feared Sidious that's why. And Sidious would have destroyed Dooku because he was superior to Dooku in Force abilities. That's like asking why Obiwan was the apprentice when he was a better duelist than his master Qui Gon.

but now you said that palps is superior force abilities. So why if someone is superior in force abilities, would they not be superior in force combat? Im not trying to be argumenative, sincerely, but explain that to me. And why, like I said, if dooku was superior to Sidious in ANYTHING, would he fear him? Isnt it the nature of the darkside that if you feel that youre better than someone, that you would try to take their position?

It was a typo, don't get so serious. I meant saber combat. When have you ever seen me say "force combat" with the exception of that one time.. And Dooku feared Sidious because Sidious overall was more powerful, not to mention the strategist behind all of the events. Just because he was better than Sidious in saber combat, doesn't mean he's going to have the testicular fortitude to challenge his master who is leagues above him in force abilities.

too be honest i think destiny would play its course, because anakin was supposed to kill obiwan not sids, if you want to get technical, but since this is just a skill thread then i would have to go with obiwan, he is wise, he would know that sidiouse was better than him, but he defeated anakin by using his surroundings, such as the hill. Sidious could deal with this better but i think obiwon has enough wisdom to pull something grand if not win

Very Unlikely. Sidious would kill him with the force alone, and he was better than obiwan in saber combat. The best Obiwan could hope for is a stalemate.

Obi Wan is great with a lightsaber but not that great, Sidious killed three Masters each equal or close to Obi Wan in seconds... They didn't even have the time to realyl defend... Obi Wan might last longer then that because of his Soresu mastery, but he too would fall, before Palps would ever get serious..

Fishy has a point. Sidious did kill 3 extremly skilled jedi and one (Kit Fisto) is even better then obi-wan in lightsaber skills. I say Obi-wan gets beat bad.

I wouldn't say bad, Obiwan's defense is impenetrable and we've witnessed it. I'm sure sooner or later Sidious will penetrate it but it won't be easy by any means.

Why do people believe that Soresu masters are basically invincible? Sidious' offense would be able to match Kenobi's defence extremely easily. It's as simple as that.

Again, not easily. But yes in the long run it would because Sidious has the ability to change to any fighting style he pleases durng the fight, and I don't think Obiwan can handle all of that.

Originally posted by Fishy
Obi Wan is great with a lightsaber but not that great, Sidious killed three Masters each equal or close to Obi Wan in seconds... They didn't even have the time to realyl defend... Obi Wan might last longer then that because of his Soresu mastery, but he too would fall, before Palps would ever get serious..
Yeah, but about the killing of the three Masters, he used the Force to help him do that, without it he couldn't lunge at them like that. And none of those guys is even Close to Obi-Wan. Kit was only slightly stronger a year after AOTC but by ROTS is not even close, as for the other 2, well, the fact that they were unable to block one swing tells it all.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, but about the killing of the three Masters, he used the Force to help him do that, without it he couldn't lunge at them like that. And none of those guys is even Close to Obi-Wan. Kit was only slightly stronger a year after AOTC but by ROTS is not even close, as for the other 2, well, the fact that they were unable to block one swing tells it all.

Darthsith you and I seem to be agreeing on a lot of things lately. Sidious was using the force, that's why he was leaping around like a crazy rabbit. Kit was strong but he got tooled in less than a second, whereas Obi Wan lasted against Anakin for quite a while. There was also some element of surprise, considering the Jedi with Windu were facing what they believed to be a feeble old man.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Darthsith you and I seem to be agreeing on a lot of things lately. Sidious was using the force, that's why he was leaping around like a crazy rabbit. Kit was strong but he got tooled in less than a second, whereas Obi Wan lasted against Anakin for quite a while. There was also some element of surprise, considering the Jedi with Windu were facing what they believed to be a feeble old man.
Yup. Except Revan isn't close to Ragnos.