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Who wins?

Damn you W00t lol, now i'm looking forward to this debate. I would say that together as a cohesive unit, DN Luke and Exar Kun prove more powerful than Sadow, but only together. Neither one of them could take him alone.

lol damn me? yeh i agree with you.

I don't know. Kun with a very limited amount of knowledge could become god like, I still don't know how to really rank Luke...

Perhaps they could perhaps they couldn't, Sadow is definitly a lot more powerful then Kun becaues of experience and knowledge and almost everything he does in the comic by far outranks what Kun has done, blowing up a star possibly without a ship as it looks completely different then what Aleema does. Creating illusions of millions of warriors that all look real and that can kill... He's damned impressive... And I don't think Kun his amulet will work on Sadow but it is possible that Sadow his amulet will work on Kun, and if thats the case then DN Luke and Kun are dead.

All in all I just don't know.

Naga Sadow unleashes thousands of illusions at both. Proceeds to use canon fodder. Wins.

Yea that works too.

But fishy, it is also logical to believe that since Sadow created that Amulet, he would have a defense for it's force blast, and whatever else it uses. Plus if this is a realistic battle then Sadow has his own amulet and Kun has Sadow's amulet, and Sadow would be able to control it on a far greater scale than Kun, and unleash hell with it. But as a team, DN Luke and Exar Kun tip the odds slightly in their favor.

Thats what I said, its very likely that Sadow has a defence against said amulet, and we have no idea abou tKun having a defence against it, it would be huge speculation without evidence so its very likely that Sadow will be able to use it effectively in this battle, and we can not make such a case for Kun.

agreed

Naga Sadow plays with a DN Luke and Exar Kun puppet, like in the cover for TOTJ.

Really, kun got hold of one of Sadow's measly amulets and wrought havoc. DN Luke is no pushover knowing his own version of Lightning (presumably instantkill, but hard to tell with enemies being force users), and able to cut through several Vong units.

However, Sadow is just plain badass. If worse comes to worse, Sadow would simply tie them by blowing up the nearest star.

I say Sadow wins, though the battle would be ever so close.

Not sure that Sadow can both take on two almost equally powerful beings like Kun and DN Luke but yea i'm sure if he goes down he'll take whatever planet he's on with him.

PWNT by Sadow then?

What's the setting of the fight?

I think Kun and DN Luke take down Sadow, but it isn't going to be an easy fight...

But Sadow would just explode the nearest star no? How could we say they are winning?

With the combined powers of Luke and Kun I doubt Sadow can blow up any star, especially without his meditation chamber.

Originally posted by Faunus
What's the setting of the fight?

Sadow requires his ship to destroy stars. Unless he starts in orbit with it, and the duo are on-planet, I don't see him gathering the concentration to create those nifty illusions of his, nor would it be possible for him to get away with detonating a star.

True also

Originally posted by Faunus
Sadow requires his ship to destroy stars. Unless he starts in orbit with it, and the duo are on-planet, I don't see him gathering the concentration to create those nifty illusions of his, nor would it be possible for him to get away with detonating a star.

You raise a good point. I always took Sadow's powers as if he were pulling rabbits from hats. It takes a lot of time to do what he did, time that he will not have in a versus fight.

Perhaps Exar Kun could wail on him while DN Luke fires his prissy lightning. After a while he would go down.

Yea that's what I think.

Originally posted by tdtd
With the combined powers of Luke and Kun I doubt Sadow can blow up any star, especially without his meditation chamber.

He wasn't in his meditation chamber when he blew up a star. He was on his ship.

Originally posted by Faunus
Sadow requires his ship to destroy stars. Unless he starts in orbit with it, and the duo are on-planet, I don't see him gathering the concentration to create those nifty illusions of his, nor would it be possible for him to get away with detonating a star.

Or so we assume. In fact, the powers are entirely different. We assume his ship did it because Aleema used his ship to cause 10 stars to go supernovae. However, the technique looked and appeared completely different.

Aleema literally ripped the core from the stars using the power of his ship. That's incredibly powerful.

Naga Sadow, however, fired something that looked like lightning into the star, and then the star detonated. He also used "solar flares" to decimate Empress Teta's pursuing fleet. Really, I don't see any mention that his ship did the work, particularly since Aleema's use of the ship was different than Naga Sadow.

I agree, if Kun and DN Luke work cohesively, they can take this. I don't see either individual beating Sadow. If Sadow isolates either one (with the force or otherwise), he wins.

Agreed

Where did he say that? I want a source for an official transcript or something along those lines, as I'm sick of people claiming, "but GL said this!!1".

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Where did he say that? I want a source for an official transcript or something along those lines, as I'm sick of people claiming, "but GL said this!!1".

WTF are you talking about?

I was resonding to tdtd's claim that GL said that it was specifically the force that created Anakin. Have you ever heard of him saying that?

Ok from what I understand Lucas simply said the Force created Anakin. He left this completely ambiguous so the audience can make up it's own mind, including the possibility of Darth Plagueis creating Anakin, and Anakin and his mother being put on Tatooine away from the Republic so they couldn't sense Anakin's presence..

When did Lucas say that the force created Anakin?

Seeing as the NEGtC states that Plagueis made Anakin, I'll go with that.

Search on google, but I'm pretty sure it's in the extra commentary in either episodes 1-2-3... It said that the force created Anakin but you could interpret that as the will of the force allowed Plagueis to manipulate midichlorians. George Lucas never states what he means by "created by the force", and instead states that he leaves it up to the audience to create their own conclusions.

About his illusions, can they actually kill? If so daym thats more impressive than any SW feat produced, as for him destroying a star, im more inclined to believe that he destroyed a star with his own force power for reasons illustrious has stated.

About his meditation chamber, that chamber to my belief enhances his power thereby enhances his illusion's strength, typically the more you put into contretrating on one matter, the more effective it becomes, as it is reasonable logic, however without his chamber, his illusions would be weaker, yet still be able to distract Kun, who had some amount of Sadow's knowledge as with Luke, who is either Slightly Stronger/ On Par / or Slightly weaker than Kun.

EDIT

It would be one interesting fight. Since Luke was known to be able to create illusions I say they kill Kun and have sort of a puppet show..

Originally posted by w00t2112
About his illusions, can they actually kill? If so daym thats more impressive than any SW feat produced, as for him destroying a star, im more inclined to believe that he destroyed a star with his own force power for reasons illustrious has stated.

About his meditation chamber, that chamber to my belief enhances his power thereby enhances his illusion's strength, typically the more you put into contretrating on one matter, the more effective it becomes, as it is reasonable logic, however without his chamber, his illusions would be weaker, yet still be able to distract Kun, who had some amount of Sadow's knowledge as with Luke, who is either Slightly Stronger/ On Par / or Slightly weaker than Kun.

His illusions were impressive enough that they were able to fool the Jedi on several planets. They literally broke through lines, and guidebooks have penned that up to 90% of his forces may have been illusions. They were certainly tangible, and with such a large ratio, it seems that they were able to kill.

I think the meditation chamber allows for Naga Sadow to focus more easily, but it doesn't serve as the vessel for his illusions. Not once in the book does it mention that the chamber made the illusions, or anything of that sort. In fact, when Gav betrayed Sadow, he even mentions that "that'll break his concentration" instead of breaking his ship. TOTJ seems to stress technological details when it comes to abilities. For example, they made it very clear that it was the amulet that fired the blasts, or that it was Sadow's ship that tore the core from the planets when Aleema used it.

There were no mention of Naga Sadow needing technology to aid him in either GAotS or FotSE. Even Gav was shwon practicing illusions, so it makes sense that Sadow was a master of them.

True, aren't meditation chambers built for someone to focus on a certian event/item without being disturbed, if so, it only causes Sadow to perform better and perhaps more Illusions as he is not distracted.

Honestly i've never seen/heard of illusions being able to kill and win a war...Sadow certianly has impressive power, makes us wonder just how much more powerful Ragnos was, and what he could do.

Well yea illusions can't kill because that's just what they are, unreal objects you see.

Originally posted by w00t2112
True, aren't meditation chambers built for someone to focus on a certian event/item without being disturbed, if so, it only causes Sadow to perform better and perhaps more Illusions as he is not distracted.

Honestly i've never seen/heard of illusions being able to kill and win a war...Sadow certianly has impressive power, makes us wonder just how much more powerful Ragnos was, and what he could do.

It was very powerful Sith Magic for sure. He says that he "can see the galaxy in his minds eye... can visualize vast armies, powerful fleets, invincible warriors, and with Sith Arts, imagination can make them real." He goes on to mention that the Republic soldiers and the Jedi can't tell the difference between them.

In fact, when Gav breaks his concentration, we see entire ships, fleets, armies, and war beasts completely vanish. Coruscant is even mentioned as a city "about to fall to overwhelming Sith forces." So if these illusions did nothing, it would hardly serve to overwhelm them.

I can't give you a definitive answer, but I will say that Sadow's illusions are probably more advanced than any kind of illusion we've seen anywhere else, and that's not to take into account scale.

Oh, thanks, he certianly is powerful.

Originally posted by Illustrious
It was very powerful Sith Magic for sure. He says that he "can see the galaxy in his minds eye... can visualize vast armies, powerful fleets, invincible warriors, and with Sith Arts, imagination can make them real." He goes on to mention that the Republic soldiers and the Jedi can't tell the difference between them.

In fact, when Gav breaks his concentration, we see entire ships, fleets, armies, and war beasts completely vanish. Coruscant is even mentioned as a city "about to fall to overwhelming Sith forces." So if these illusions did nothing, it would hardly serve to overwhelm them.

I can't give you a definitive answer, but I will say that Sadow's illusions are probably more advanced than any kind of illusion we've seen anywhere else, and that's not to take into account scale.

Actually if I remember correctly we see a Jedi fight with an illusion that then vanishes.. I'm not entirely sure, but if a Jedi fought an illusion then it means the illusions can be felt as well. Besides with the amount of troops Sadow created the Republic soldiers would have noticed if they couldn't be hurt by them. And when the illusions dissapear the nearest enemy's for the Jedi are very far away, yet even a few meters before them we see dead people. I'd say they can kill, and actually have.

And its the single most impressive use of this kind of magic ever.