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1. rots obi one
2. dooku
3. malak
4. yoda
5. de sidious
6. mace
7. exar kun
he lives

Dies at Exar, unless its DE sids in which case he might die there.

Yea, dies at Kun.

DE Sidious, most likely. If he survives, and pulls past Mace, Exar grinds him into dust.

Rampage until he reaches Exar Kun.

At that point it will be a close match. Revan and Kun are about equal, given their accomplishments. Hard to say, they would most likely KO each other.

Revan and Kun aren't equal. Revan is superior to Kun in accomplishments while Kun and his nifty amulet blasts and sith knowledge are superior to Revan, and since this is a 1 on 1 battle, Kun wins.

Revan takes it all the way.

Originally posted by Faunus
DE Sidious, most likely. If he survives, and pulls past Mace, Exar grinds him into dust.

Yea, Revan could still take DE Sidious although it wouldn't be a picnic, but he will die at Kun.

Revan gets crushed at Exar Kun.

Originally posted by Faunus
DE Sidious, most likely. If he survives, and pulls past Mace, Exar grinds him into dust.

Well it isn't really specified which Sidious it is, seeing as he's under Mace i'm just giong to assume its ROTS sids in which case Revan will reach Exar and then die, if its DE sids you are right though he will likely die there.



There is nothing to show that Revan could stand up against Kun, perhaps he could wipe the floor with Kun, but we don't know that so he won't.



You are insane... Really, how the hell would Revan make it all the way?

There is no doubt in my mind that he dies at Exar Kun.

Okay just reread the first post it says DE sidious now, didn't before and the poll says ROTS.

So if its ROTS he dies at Exar if its DE he possibly dies there possibly gets through and then still dies at Exar.

Originally posted by Faunus
DE Sidious, most likely. If he survives, and pulls past Mace, Exar grinds him into dust.

Revan dies at DE Sidious.

I can't help but think that Furbys are evil is biased. He changed it from DE Sidious to RotS. Though Sidious is more powerful in DE. Perhaps he wanted to ensure that he would make it to Kun.

Would you be surprised?

Not really. Not with all the Revan fanboyism going around.

spreading like smallpox

Not sure if Revan would die at DE Sidious since we don't know the extent of his power compared to someone that might be his equal. But again he dies at Kun, unless KOTOR makes him uber.

tdtd, why do you always claim that we don't know how powerful anyone is? You say it all the time and it's rather annoying.

Anyway, there's no way Revan would make it past DE Sidious.

Ok Glentract then explain why Revan wouldn't make it past DE Sidious. And I always say we know dick about Revan because we DO know dick about Revan. If the truth is annoying then I can't really help you with that can I?

Originally posted by DarthBanevv
I can't help but think that Furbys are evil is biased. He changed it from DE Sidious to RotS. Though Sidious is more powerful in DE. Perhaps he wanted to ensure that he would make it to Kun.
Naw, he changed it from Rots Sidious to DE Sidious, notice how he edited it 14 minutes later..and his poll would've been posted at the same time he created the thread.

DE Sids curbstomps Revan.

I wouldn't put it that way.

De Sid, cannot curbstomp Revan, it will be a close match, with Sid likely to come out on top

This gauntlet is so dumb, cause everyone is pretty strong and then all of a sudden we have Exar Kun, who is one of the strongest jedi/Sith of all time. And who the hell said he beats Kun?


Anyways, he pwnd most of those people. DN puts up an okay fight, though, and he dies at Kun.

Originally posted by Moff Tarkin
DE Sids curbstomps Revan.

Nice how everone downplays Revan's accomplishment. Word of advice play KOTOR and KOTOR 2, read the descriptions of Revan, analyze what he's done.


Defeating Malak is not simply just defeating his "old" apprentice. Malak's power was being amplified by the dark side of an entire race and it's technology. Not to mention that he was described as "unstoppable" with the power of the Star Forge. The fact that he could control such as device without being killed, is a testament to how much he learned at Malachor, as well as his own power. Now Kun has never even been to Malachor.

We can deduce the "type" of knowledge that the people of KOTOR obtained at Malachor, before you or anyone else try and downplay it.

Darth Traya, a powerful Sith learned a technique that could instantly kill three skilled Jedi masters. A technique from which there is "no defence." Now Revan, who was there first, possesses much more raw force strength, intelligence, and overall more talent and thus certainly learnt more from the teachings at Malachor than even Traya. Indeed, it is because of Revan that all the other Jedi in KOTOR fell.


His command of the force is incredible to say the least. The Rakatan's in game describe his force storm as lightning raining from the sky, slaughtering their scouting parties.

The very fact that he was described as "Power" by Kreia, who had lived during the times of Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma, speaks volumes for him. Finally, in KOTOR Revan is described as the only Jedi that can stand against the Ancient Sith, enemies who are akin to Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.

BTW, not that I care or anything:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=377523

Originally posted by zephiel7
Nice how everone downplays Revan's accomplishment. Word of advice play KOTOR and KOTOR 2, read the descriptions of Revan, analyze what he's done.


Defeating Malak is not simply just defeating his "old" apprentice. Malak's power was being amplified by the dark side of an entire race and it's technology. Not to mention that he was described as "unstoppable" with the power of the Star Forge. The fact that he could control such as device without being killed, is a testament to how much he learned at Malachor, as well as his own power. Now Kun has never even been to Malachor.

We can deduce the "type" of knowledge that the people of KOTOR obtained at Malachor, before you or anyone else try and downplay it.

Darth Traya, a powerful Sith learned a technique that could instantly kill three skilled Jedi masters. A technique from which there is "no defence." Now Revan, who was there first, possesses much more raw force strength, intelligence, and overall more talent and thus certainly learnt more from the teachings at Malachor than even Traya. Indeed, it is because of Revan that all the other Jedi in KOTOR fell.

His command of the force is incredible to say the least. The Rakatan's in game describe his force storm as lightning raining from the sky, slaughtering their scouting parties.

The very fact that he was described as "Power" by Kreia, who had lived during the times of Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma, speaks volumes for him. Finally, in KOTOR Revan is described as the only Jedi that can stand against the Ancient Sith, enemies who are akin to Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.

Unfortuantely Kreia's word is biased, and illogical, she loves Revan as much as she loves the Exile, however Kun was crowned by Ragnos, which speaks loads more volumes of power for Kun, he was proclaimed the most formidable student vodo has ever had, seeing as Vodo is 600 and possessed far more knowledge and experience then Kreia and seeing as Vodo never took favourites, his word is far more credible, Whereas you provide proof that Revan is strong based on comments from people who have likely never seen or barely know the DLOTS before, remember Nomi Sunrider was only a Knight at the time, and yet her daughter was supposed to feature in Kotor, that means that the Masters of the Kotor time were at most Knights and more likely younglings.

Kun has demonstrated far superior knowledge, and learning from various places, especially Sadow's Sith Magic which already surpasses Revan's power, unless Revan is shown to be able to replicate Kun's abilities or Sadow's its unlikely he'll ever be on par with them. If you believe Malachor V gave Revan uber knowledge, i find you are misguided and mislead, I can just as easily assume Kun knows how to generate an entire army of illusions that can kill and act as a real army, destroy the star with the force and so forth.

Kreia is how old and at what rank during TOTJ? Hell she isnt even mentioned its likely she never fully understood Kun's power, she had never taught Kun, neither had she ever known him, she is biased towards Revan, and even she admits that the Ancient Sith make the Sith of her time, look like children with toys, how on earth can Revan contend with a Sith such as Naga Sadow if he made Revan look like a child with a toy? Moreso how would he defeat someone who was the last legacy of the Ancient Sith : Exar Kun.

Of course in Kotor it speaks volumes of his power, Kotor is Revan's time as is Kotor 2. As you know, every single attack before DE that was of worth was developed from the Ancient Sith, whats to say Kun didn't have his own? Kun is described to be so full of power than the ground shook from his sheer strength.

In Malachor, ok Revan learnt heaps, ok In Sadow's teachings Kun learns far superior and far stronger techniques, remember that all the knowledge that Ragnos his predessors were left on Korriban, and the rest on Yavin 4, by the time Kun ends his life the last knowledge of the Ancient Sith are lost.

Revan is in no way close to Kun, he might contend with Ulic but Kun is just leagues above him.

Yea all that he said.

Kreia is perhaps one of the oldest characters in the KOTOR time. Suppose she is at the VERY LEAST sixty, during the days of Kun, she would at LEAST be 20. More likely than not, Kreia is probably late up their. Considering how long the Jedi/Sith last, and her appearance, it can be assumed that she is abnormally long lived. She was a member of the the Jedi council at least during the times of Exar Kun. Since the events in KOTOR/KOTOR 2 happened roughly 40 years after Exar Kun, Kreia's experience with Exar and Ulic are enough to form a valid basis for my support. Having experienced Exar Kun, she would have something to ground what would be considered as a powerful "Sith Lord." The fact that she called Revan "the heart the force" and "power," yet remains a clear indication of his power with respect to the other two dark lords.



Misguided? We KNOW that Kreia learned an instantkill technique from the ancient sith academy at Malachor 5. We also know that a more talented and force sensitive sith lord, Revan, visited Malachor 5 years BEFORE Kreia. Revan obviously learned more. He is shown and spoken of as having abilities that surpass any other dark lord/jedi master in KOTOR.



The abilities of Kun became common knowledge. The fact that he possessed Sadow's amulet, was known, his double bladed lightsaber style became known, also his strength in the dark side was known. Despite all this, from her experiences she considers Revan the strongest force user.

If anything, Kreia is prejudiced towards the Exile. Your belief that Kreia is biased towards Revan is unfounded. The fact that Ragnos deemed Kun the dark lord is partly because Revan wasn't even AROUND at that time.

It is stated time and time again that Revan was the only Jedi that had the power to contend against the ancient Sith. The ancient Sith are force users akin to Ragnos, Kressh, Simus, and Sadow. If the belief that Revan had enough potential and learned enough to contend against figures like these, then damn hell he would be able to tie Kun.



By whom, an old man at the space station orbiting Yavin 4? Even so, Revan was described so powerful that he was considered "the heart of the force."

Originally posted by zephiel7
Kreia is perhaps one of the oldest characters in the KOTOR time. Suppose she is at the VERY LEAST sixty, during the days of Kun, she would at LEAST be 20. More likely than not, Kreia is probably late up their. Considering how long the Jedi/Sith last, and her appearance, it can be assumed that she is abnormally long lived. She was a member of the the Jedi council at least during the times of Exar Kun. Since the events in KOTOR/KOTOR 2 happened roughly 40 years after Exar Kun, Kreia's experience with Exar and Ulic are enough to form a valid basis for my support. Having experienced Exar Kun, she would have something to ground what would be considered as a powerful "Sith Lord." The fact that she called Revan "the heart the force" and "power," yet remains a clear indication of his power with respect to the other two dark lords.



Misguided? We KNOW that Kreia learned an instantkill technique from the ancient sith academy at Malachor 5. We also know that a more talented and force sensitive sith lord, Revan, visited Malachor 5 years BEFORE Kreia. Revan obviously learned more. He is shown and spoken of as having abilities that surpass any other dark lord/jedi master in KOTOR.



The abilities of Kun became common knowledge. The fact that he possessed Sadow's amulet, was known, his double bladed lightsaber style became known, also his strength in the dark side was known. Despite all this, from her experiences she considers Revan the strongest force user.

If anything, Kreia is prejudiced towards the Exile. Your belief that Kreia is biased towards Revan is unfounded. The fact that Ragnos deemed Kun the dark lord is partly because Revan wasn't even AROUND at that time.

It is stated time and time again that Revan was the only Jedi that had the power to contend against the ancient Sith. The ancient Sith are force users akin to Ragnos, Kressh, Simus, and Sadow. If the belief that Revan had enough potential and learned enough to contend against figures like these, then damn hell he would be able to tie Kun.



By whom, an old man at the space station orbiting Yavin 4? Even so, Revan was described so powerful that he was considered "the heart of the force."

Yes a 20 year old Jedi Knight, would not have a clear depiction on the power of Kun, as you know, only Jedi Masters faced off against Kun, all of them died, Kreia never faced off Kun, thus never saw his power nor had the ability to look at him and sense how much power he had, she is not a valid source as well she is not valid in the very fact she favours Revan.

Yet, Sadow has depicted a small portion of his force abilites that put him above Kun, and yet Kun shows force power that was never again replicated, where is the proof Revan is more powerful than Kun? Your purely making a biased speculation. Consider also he is described to be so powerful beacuse in Kotor his is the most powerful, yet all those who describe would never have had the chance to see Kun's power.

Common knowledge? As far as we know, his double bladed saber style was far different than that of any others, despite being a shorter hilt, he moved in a much fast and more precise style thus making his style unique, it is common knowledge everywhere that Kun wielded his saber differently to all the other Jedi/Sith.

My fact was based upon the very fact, that Ragnos forsaw and predicted and/or the sheer power of Kun allowed him the awaken Ragnos, meaning that Kun was of a power greater than Revan in order to awaken the most powerful of the most powerful.

Where was it stated time and time again that Revan could contend with the Ancient Sith? No where, the last legacy of the Ancient Sith is Exar Kun, he possessed the last of their knowledge and he destroyed it when he died. By your theory Kun was to bring about the Golden Age of the Sith, meaning that he too would be able to contend with them, no where in kotor or anywhere is it stated that Revan can contend with them, and even if they said in Kotor its completely useless, for anyone below the rank of a Jedi Master at Kun's time would be unable to tell Kun's true power.

Also Kreia learnt the instakill...where is the proof that Revan did? If you speculate that Revan learnt then i'll speculate that Kun learnt both spawning an entire army of Sith illusions that were able to kill, and he was able to blow a star with the force. Also Kreia's move may not even work on Kun, how do you even know that it would be effective against Kun, it was stated to have no defense during the KOTOR TIME.

Kreia is a powerful Jedi, however she is not on the council she is nowhere in the TOTJ comics meaning she could not have been a master of much worth and less a master that would have had a view on Kun's true power.

All we know about Revan is that he took it upon himself to be the chosen one to defeat the ancient Sith empire, and went looking for it.

Oh,that isnt proof he can contend with them...and perhaps he was said to be able to because he was the only one that was able at that TIME since he was the most powerful during Kotor.

I hate threads with Revan. They are 99% speculation..

As with Ragnos, and 70% speculation bout Kun aas we dont know how much he learnt of Sadow

Yea but with Kun we know how powerful he was despite what he learned, with Ragnos we know he was the cream of the crop.. With Revan we know nothing.

Originally posted by w00t2112

Kun has demonstrated far superior knowledge, and learning from various places, especially Sadow's Sith Magic which already surpasses Revan's power, unless Revan is shown to be able to replicate Kun's abilities or Sadow's its unlikely he'll ever be on par with them. If you believe Malachor V gave Revan uber knowledge, i find you are misguided and mislead, I can just as easily assume Kun knows how to generate an entire army of illusions that can kill and act as a real army, destroy the star with the force and so forth.


Can't say I agree with this. What Revan found on Korriban and Malachor V would give him great knowledge, on par with Naga Sadow? Hell no, but to assume Kun could blow up stars and create illusion army's like Sadow did simply because he had the last remnants of Sadow his power is ridiculious if you ask me.

Originally posted by w00t2112

Kreia is how old and at what rank during TOTJ? Hell she isnt even mentioned its likely she never fully understood Kun's power, she had never taught Kun, neither had she ever known him, she is biased towards Revan, and even she admits that the Ancient Sith make the Sith of her time, look like children with toys, how on earth can Revan contend with a Sith such as Naga Sadow if he made Revan look like a child with a toy? Moreso how would he defeat someone who was the last legacy of the Ancient Sith : Exar Kun.


She's talking about Tulak Hord and not the ancient Sith in general. On Korriban she talks about Hord, Pall, Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh never about Exar Kun. She does not think Kun is in the same league as those guys.

Originally posted by w00t2112

Of course in Kotor it speaks volumes of his power, Kotor is Revan's time as is Kotor 2. As you know, every single attack before DE that was of worth was developed from the Ancient Sith, whats to say Kun didn't have his own? Kun is described to be so full of power than the ground shook from his sheer strength.



That last thing was said by a Rodian who worshipped the very ground Kun walked on, if there was ever a biased source. And do you have any prove that Kun created his own attacks? No, didn't think so. So he didn't.



Originally posted by zephiel7

he was a member of the the Jedi council at least during the times of Exar Kun




This is some of the most unfounded bullshit I have read.... She wasn't on the council, that time didn't even have a council.



Originally posted by zephiel7

Since the events in KOTOR/KOTOR 2 happened roughly 40 years after Exar Kun, Kreia's experience with Exar and Ulic are enough to form a valid basis for my support.




Hardly, the Jedi weren't exactly gathering a lot in those days its very possible she never met either one of them. Perhaps she saw them on Osus when that place was about to blow up and if thats the case she would have been gathering all the knowledge she could, she would have put it into a ship and she would have left. She wouldn't have really had the time or the oppurtunity to learn to know either one of them.


Originally posted by zephiel7

Misguided? We KNOW that Kreia learned an instantkill technique from the ancient sith academy at Malachor 5. We also know that a more talented and force sensitive sith lord, Revan, visited Malachor 5 years BEFORE Kreia. Revan obviously learned more. He is shown and spoken of as having abilities that surpass any other dark lord/jedi master in KOTOR.


The instakill technique, is a technique that can not be learned. She did not learn it from Malachor V. And she likely went there are at the same time as Revan, but she had a lot more time to study the place. Unless you have prove to show otherwise. Which you don't.

Originally posted by zephiel7

The abilities of Kun became common knowledge. The fact that he possessed Sadow's amulet, was known, his double bladed lightsaber style became known, also his strength in the dark side was known. Despite all this, from her experiences she considers Revan the strongest force user.


At that time... Not ever, not 40 years ago.

Originally posted by zephiel7

If anything, Kreia is prejudiced towards the Exile. Your belief that Kreia is biased towards Revan is unfounded. The fact that Ragnos deemed Kun the dark lord is partly because Revan wasn't even AROUND at that time.

It is stated time and time again that Revan was the only Jedi that had the power to contend against the ancient Sith. The ancient Sith are force users akin to Ragnos, Kressh, Simus, and Sadow. If the belief that Revan had enough potential and learned enough to contend against figures like these, then damn hell he would be able to tie Kun.


Who says those Sith are even close to as powerful as the earlier one's? Considering as all the knowledge was lost the most powerful sith Lords were destroyed by their own massassi and what remained was almost completely destroyed by the army's of the Republic and the Jedi....


Originally posted by w00t2112

Yet, Sadow has depicted a small portion of his force abilites that put him above Kun, and yet Kun shows force power that was never again replicated, where is the proof Revan is more powerful than Kun? Your purely making a biased speculation. Consider also he is described to be so powerful beacuse in Kotor his is the most powerful, yet all those who describe would never have had the chance to see Kun's power.


Not entirely true, most of them would have had a chance to see something of Kun and or Ulic, they however never say Revan is the greatest ever, just the greatest they have trained the greatest they have seen in a long time. Shit like that. So it doesn't matter.


Originally posted by w00t2112

My fact was based upon the very fact, that Ragnos forsaw and predicted and/or the sheer power of Kun allowed him the awaken Ragnos, meaning that Kun was of a power greater than Revan in order to awaken the most powerful of the most powerful.


Actually we see the Amulets doing that, Kun even says "the amulets? What are they doing?" or something like that... So it was the combination of their fight and the two amulets or perhaps just the two amulets. I still don't see how that really matters though because Revan was also apparantly crowned Dark Lord of the Sith by somebody, and it wouldn't matter who it was, because the Sith talk about this shit and decide together...

Originally posted by w00t2112

Where was it stated time and time again that Revan could contend with the Ancient Sith? No where, the last legacy of the Ancient Sith is Exar Kun, he possessed the last of their knowledge and he destroyed it when he died. By your theory Kun was to bring about the Golden Age of the Sith, meaning that he too would be able to contend with them, no where in kotor or anywhere is it stated that Revan can contend with them, and even if they said in Kotor its completely useless, for anyone below the rank of a Jedi Master at Kun's time would be unable to tell Kun's true power.


Where does this come from? Kun had knowledge from 2 sources. 2, Sadow and Nadd... Revan had acces to a lot more knowledge, what he did with it is up to debate but he certainly had more he could access...

Originally posted by w00t2112

Also Kreia learnt the instakill...where is the proof that Revan did? If you speculate that Revan learnt then i'll speculate that Kun learnt both spawning an entire army of Sith illusions that were able to kill, and he was able to blow a star with the force. Also Kreia's move may not even work on Kun, how do you even know that it would be effective against Kun, it was stated to have no defense during the KOTOR TIME.


Two things about this.

1.) Kreia did not learn the instakill its a technique you can not learn
2.) there simply is no defence, there has never been a defence seeing as the Technique has never been used before.



Originally posted by w00t2112

Kreia is a powerful Jedi, however she is not on the council she is nowhere in the TOTJ comics meaning she could not have been a master of much worth and less a master that would have had a view on Kun's true power.


Those times didn't even have a council, so yeah we can safely say she wasn't on it.

Originally posted by w00t2112
As with Ragnos, and 70% speculation bout Kun aas we dont know how much he learnt of Sadow


With Kun we have no reason to speculate we have seen enough that puts him above Revan. Speculating about Kun is just as bad as speculating abuot Revan, if not worse because its not needed.

In reply to your point about Revan not being as powerful as Kun simply because the ancient sith didn't approach him - there is a plausible explanation. Revan's sith order was very much unlike the ancient sith order while Kun's was, and his intentions originally were likely to be good and his reasons for going to the dark side were much different then Kun's and Sidious'.

Originally posted by zod360
In reply to your point about Revan not being as powerful as Kun simply because the ancient sith didn't approach him - there is a plausible explanation. Revan's sith order was very much unlike the ancient sith order while Kun's was, and his intentions originally were likely to be good and his reasons for going to the dark side were much different then Kun's and Sidious'.

So you think a lot of Jedi wake up one morning and go "I'm going to renounce everything I was ever taught and going to go turn into an evil bastard!"?

A lot of Jedi have noble intentions, get caught up in the dark side, and fall. Even Exar Kun stated that he would "never turn to the dark side" in his comics. You saw how great that was.

Originally posted by Illustrious
So you think a lot of Jedi wake up one morning and go "I'm going to renounce everything I was ever taught and going to go turn into an evil bastard!"?

A lot of Jedi have noble intentions, get caught up in the dark side, and fall. Even Exar Kun stated that he would "never turn to the dark side" in his comics. You saw how great that was.

Even WHEN Revan became the dark lord, his intentions were still good. He was just thinking as a battle hardened commander would. He never wanted to destroy the Republic. To become its saviour, he had to first become its conqueror.

Right so he took it upon himself to be the chosen one for his time, and his accomplishments show exactly that. But in terms of a 1 on 1 battle, Kun still has the amulet.

The VERY LEAST 20. Given a Jedi Master/Sith Lord's abnormally long life span, she could have been anywhere in her sixties during that time.



Kreia had the chance to see Kun's power. Most likely Vrook and Vandaar as well.



The knowledge that Revan obtained from Malachor 5 obviously. Nihilus and his servants learned techniques at Malachor that allowed them to feed on the force itself. The lore that Revan obtained, having been there first and longest, is definately more significant. Malak learned enough that he could control a device known to crush any other Sith.



I doubt any Sith Lord would have approached Revan. Kreia said that Revan never really fell to the darkside. His intentions were to use the darkside to protect the Republic from the ancient sith.



It is stated many times. Kreia specifically, who was the Jedi HISTORIAN even. If anyone, she would know the power of the ancients. She, from her studies and experiences, also knows enough about Kun to decide how Revan stands.



Revan learned the instantkill not only with his close association with Traya, but also the fact he was at Malachor first. If he didn't learn the instantkill he most certainly learned something stronger. Sadow destroying the star was partly due to his meditation sphere and then himself. His powers in that case may not have been due to Sith Alchemy at all. Just his power with the force. Same with the illusions.



No, she said it was a move from which there is no defense. Somewhat obscure, but thats what she said.



Um, that is because she was never made by the TOTJ people. She was made by Bioware, and so she was probably a Jedi knight at the time. She was the Jedi historian. With respect to history, and knowledge, (along with Odan) she probably knew most.

I agree with you about Revan not being approached because he never actually fell to the dark side, as that is a logical possibility. However all of your speculation on what Revan learned is just pure speculation as we really don't have a clue what he'd learned. I guess you can thank the makers of KOTOR for not including everywhere. I still think we'll know more in KOTOR III

True, she could have been 80 or a 100 and what difference would it have made? She still didn't know Kun.



But did they ever see Kun his real power, they may have felt it above Yavin IV, but did they actually witness him do anything? Did they hear anything but story's? And if they did it would have likely been on Osus when he was looting the place and they were running so it makes no real difference.



This is all bullshit, Revan has not been there the longest, Nihilus and his servants did not learn the eating technique there because it can no be learned.

He could have learned more then Kun did though from more sources but thats a could have nothing is sure, and you certainly as hell can't prove it with stating wrong facts.



No, if Revan was a Sith Lord which he was he would have met a Sith and a Sith would have proclaimed him as one, simple as that. Its how people become Sith. Who proclaimed him a Sith Lord doesn't matter as those spirits talk with eachother, and again it doesn't matter anyways if he was proclaimed a Sith or not, Exar is not more powerful because he was, Ulic was not more powerful because he was, Sidious was not more powerful because he was.



Where in Kotor was it ever stated that Revan was as powerful as Kun? The most powerful of his era, yes. But that doesn't mean Revan > Kun.



You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power.



There is no defence, if she can use it without the Exile everybody she uses it against except for the Exile and Nihilus is dead simple as that... Which again makes me believe she needed the exile to do it.



Who cares by whom she was made, she was powerful and wise but she did not know Kun.

Originally posted by Fishy
True, she could have been 80 or a 100 and what difference would it have made? She still didn't know Kun.



But did they ever see Kun his real power, they may have felt it above Yavin IV, but did they actually witness him do anything? Did they hear anything but story's? And if they did it would have likely been on Osus when he was looting the place and they were running so it makes no real difference.



This is all bullshit, Revan has not been there the longest, Nihilus and his servants did not learn the eating technique there because it can no be learned.

He could have learned more then Kun did though from more sources but thats a could have nothing is sure, and you certainly as hell can't prove it with stating wrong facts.



No, if Revan was a Sith Lord which he was he would have met a Sith and a Sith would have proclaimed him as one, simple as that. Its how people become Sith. Who proclaimed him a Sith Lord doesn't matter as those spirits talk with eachother, and again it doesn't matter anyways if he was proclaimed a Sith or not, Exar is not more powerful because he was, Ulic was not more powerful because he was, Sidious was not more powerful because he was.



Where in Kotor was it ever stated that Revan was as powerful as Kun? The most powerful of his era, yes. But that doesn't mean Revan > Kun.



You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power.



There is no defence, if she can use it without the Exile everybody she uses it against except for the Exile and Nihilus is dead simple as that... Which again makes me believe she needed the exile to do it.



Who cares by whom she was made, she was powerful and wise but she did not know Kun.
You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his powerOriginally posted by Fishy
True, she could have been 80 or a 100 and what difference would it have made? She still didn't know Kun.



But did they ever see Kun his real power, they may have felt it above Yavin IV, but did they actually witness him do anything? Did they hear anything but story's? And if they did it would have likely been on Osus when he was looting the place and they were running so it makes no real difference.



This is all bullshit, Revan has not been there the longest, Nihilus and his servants did not learn the eating technique there because it can no be learned.

He could have learned more then Kun did though from more sources but thats a could have nothing is sure, and you certainly as hell can't prove it with stating wrong facts.



No, if Revan was a Sith Lord which he was he would have met a Sith and a Sith would have proclaimed him as one, simple as that. Its how people become Sith. Who proclaimed him a Sith Lord doesn't matter as those spirits talk with eachother, and again it doesn't matter anyways if he was proclaimed a Sith or not, Exar is not more powerful because he was, Ulic was not more powerful because he was, Sidious was not more powerful because he was.



Where in Kotor was it ever stated that Revan was as powerful as Kun? The most powerful of his era, yes. But that doesn't mean Revan > Kun.



You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power.



There is no defence, if she can use it without the Exile everybody she uses it against except for the Exile and Nihilus is dead simple as that... Which again makes me believe she needed the exile to do it.



Who cares by whom she was made, she was powerful and wise but she did not know Kun.

How do you suppose Kreia learnt it then?

Oops, ignore the "Originally posted by Fishy" parts.

Again, the instakill technique is not something that can be taught. It was a fluke resulting from the would in the force caused by the Exile. Kreia most likely needs the exile to use it as it can only be used around a wound in the force. Nihilus himself was created by a wound in the force which is why he can eat the force..

Originally posted by zod360
You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power

How do you suppose Kreia learnt it then?

So basically, I don't know what to say you are right but I don't want to admit it... Either adress the rest of the post or just stop replying.

And how do I think Kreia learned it? How should I know? How did the Exile learn it? How did Nihilus learn it? Actually nobody learned it, they were just able to do so. Kreia may have learned how to manipulate an already existing hole in such a way that she could use the power to rip the force out of people, but she did not learn the technique to eat the force. Nobody ever did. Kreia makes it very clear that the technique can not be learned.

And also just to make things clearer. The Jedi Council has never ever felt anything like the Exile except for when they felt Nihilus (which btw: they felt half way across the galaxy) as Nihilus was in the outer rim and they still felt what he left behind in the centre of the galaxy on Coruscant. They felt it, and they felt it too the exact same thing within the Exile, and it was strange to them. They didn't know what it was.

They did meet Revan a lot they saw him a lot, so they would have felt it before if Revan would have been able to use it, obviously he wasn't seeing as it was new to the Jedi Council.

I still maintain my theory because is logical. Nihilus learned the technique because he was the direct result of the wound in the force. Kreia learned a less effective technique because she bound her life to the exile who was a wound in the force.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
tdtd, why do you always claim that we don't know how powerful anyone is? You say it all the time and it's rather annoying.

Anyway, there's no way Revan would make it past DE Sidious.

He'd make it past quite easily actually.

I wouldn't say he would make it quite easily, in fact I'd venture a 50-50 chance.

Malak's power was being amplified by the dark side of an entire race and it's technology. Not to mention that he was described as "unstoppable" with the power of the Star Forge.

Canonically, Malak only has one confirmed extra life. For all we know, Revan drained the remaining Jedi from their slumber! And where was it said SPECIFICALLY that Malak's powers were substantially increased on the Star Forge?

The fact that he could control such as device without being killed, is a testament to how much he learned at Malachor, as well as his own power. Now Kun has never even been to Malachor.

Malachor is full of useful tidbits of Sith lore, that's true. But Kun had access to Sadow's and Nadd's stash of information. We don't know how great the knowledge on Malachor was anyways. Controlling the Star Forge only makes him more powerful than Council Members, who are potentially as weak as Coleman Trebor. Still leagues below DE Sidious.


Darth Traya, a powerful Sith learned a technique that could instantly kill three skilled Jedi masters. A technique from which there is "no defence."

No defence? Unproven statement. It kills three powerful masters, but ROTS Sidious did that too, with his saber, in seconds. Now, does that mean he can saberape everyone? No. We've only seen the instakill being used once. This is like saying Vader's force choke has no defence, because no Admiral ever resisted it.

Now Revan, who was there first, possesses much more raw force strength, intelligence, and overall more talent and thus certainly learnt more from the teachings at Malachor than even Traya. Indeed, it is because of Revan that all the other Jedi in KOTOR fell.

Now, where are you getting this from? More raw force strength? Intelligence? Overall talent? When has Revan ever demonstrated being far stronger than Traya? Never. It was not because of Revan that the Jedi in KOTOR fell, it was due to a number of things:
(40 years prior)
The Freedon Nadd uprising, the Sith War
The Mandalorian Wars
The Second Sith War (Revan)
Sion's Assasination group
A couple more things I might be forgetting.

He has never accomplished anything near the greatness of Sids (having all Jedi destroyed and conning the galaxy).

His command of the force is incredible to say the least. The Rakatan's in game describe his force storm as lightning raining from the sky, slaughtering their scouting parties.

Those force storms are small sparks compared to Sidious' power. Frying a few primitives is not impressive at all. And if he had the power to create uber Force Storms, he would have created them.

The very fact that he was described as "Power" by Kreia, who had lived during the times of Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma, speaks volumes for him. Finally, in KOTOR Revan is described as the only Jedi that can stand against the Ancient Sith, enemies who are akin to Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.

Oh gee, biased old Kreia. Notice how she was the only one to describe him like this, even though there were others who were closer to him and knew him more after the mindwipe. The Ancient Sith are a bunch of wimps now for all we know (like the Rakata). After the Hyperspace War alot of stuff was lost. We have no clue how powerful they are now.

Now, Revan has a chance in a saber fight. But since we haven't seen him fight with a saber I can't judge. Revan is toast in a force fight.

There are a few problems with your arguments.
1. Malak did have more information and knowledge available to him, while it is unknown what and how much knowledge Sidious had, and what he learned on Korriban.
2. How can you compare Traya's instakill technique which logically is a fluke as a result of the Exile, to Sidious' lightsaber battles in which he ends up getting curbstomped?
3. You can't say that if Revan had the power to create force storms he would have since that's pure speculation. Traya, along all the Jedi have the power of force push, but we don't ever see her use it. And Sidious' ability to create a force storm doesn't make him more powerful than Revan.
4. For all we know the Ancient Sith could be wimps? That is 100% untrue as we all know most of these powers originated from the Ancient Sith, and they were the most powerful of the most powerful. I'm even inclined to state that the first ever dark Jedi who passed down all of this knowledge to the ancient sith, were even more powerful, such as Xendor, the first dark Jedi. Revan is a master swordsman with the two saber style whatever it is. I am more than sure he could hold his own against DE Sidious, unless DE Sidious starts moving faster than the naked eye. We know very little about Revan's force powers, so at this point we'd have to give the force fight to DE Sidious.

1. Malak did have more information and knowledge available to him, while it is unknown what and how much knowledge Sidious had, and what he learned on Korriban.

I never said Sidious had more knowledge available to him than Malak.

2. How can you compare Traya's instakill technique which logically is a fluke as a result of the Exile, to Sidious' lightsaber battles in which he ends up getting curbstomped?

Because we haven't seen her instakill being used often, only once in fact. Palp's saberrape and Traya's instakill are similar in nature, they both killed 3 Jedi. However, in ONLY Palpatine's case, someone superior came (Superior in saber skills only btw) along and beat him. Traya's instakill is an unknown.

3. You can't say that if Revan had the power to create force storms he would have since that's pure speculation. Traya, along all the Jedi have the power of force push, but we don't ever see her use it. And Sidious' ability to create a force storm doesn't make him more powerful than Revan.

Why wouldn't he have? It would have helped a good bit during all those scuffles against the Republic and the Jedi. That's like saying ROTS Sidious can conjure up large, fleet sized force storms. And Force Push isn't spectacular by any means, definatly not worth mentioning at all. And how better than to judge how powerful they are, than the power of their Force attacks?

4. For all we know the Ancient Sith could be wimps? That is 100% untrue as we all know most of these powers originated from the Ancient Sith, and they were the most powerful of the most powerful.
Remember the Rakata? Might the same deal.

I'm even inclined to state that the first ever dark Jedi who passed down all of this knowledge to the ancient sith, were even more powerful, such as Xendor, the first dark Jedi. Revan is a master swordsman with the two saber style whatever it is. I am more than sure he could hold his own against DE Sidious, unless DE Sidious starts moving faster than the naked eye. We know very little about Revan's force powers, so at this point we'd have to give the force fight to DE Sidious.

Blah blah blah, DE Sidious wins.

2. Traya's instakill only worked with the exile around.
3. Why wouldn't it have? Because Revan never wanted to kill any members of the republic, nor do we see him killing any I don't think. We see Revan creating a force storm too but right not of the magnitude of Sidious. Does that mean he can't?
4. No, it is pure fact that the Ancient Sith are the most powerful of the most powerful. And the most powerful tends to be the creators or the first ones, as in the Ancient Sith and more importantly, the first dark jedi.

Blah blah blah you still haven't proven how DE Sidious would win. What, he'll unleash a force storm and kill himself along with it?

3. Why wouldn't it have? Because Revan never wanted to kill any members of the republic, nor do we see him killing any I don't think. We see Revan creating a force storm too but right not of the magnitude of Sidious. Does that mean he can't?

What kind of nonsense is this? Of course he would! He was at war, and it is confirmed that he did kill Jedi and Mandalorians. Why would he try to hard to devise brilliant battle plans in the second Sith War, if not to eliminate the Republic military?

No, it is pure fact that the Ancient Sith are the most powerful of the most powerful. And the most powerful tends to be the creators or the first ones, as in the Ancient Sith and more importantly, the first dark jedi.

You haven't seen or heard the surviving Ancient Sith, therefore you cannot judge. We don't know how powerful they are now.

Originally posted by zephiel7
The VERY LEAST 20. Given a Jedi Master/Sith Lord's abnormally long life span, she could have been anywhere in her sixties during that time.



Kreia had the chance to see Kun's power. Most likely Vrook and Vandaar as well.



The knowledge that Revan obtained from Malachor 5 obviously. Nihilus and his servants learned techniques at Malachor that allowed them to feed on the force itself. The lore that Revan obtained, having been there first and longest, is definately more significant. Malak learned enough that he could control a device known to crush any other Sith.



I doubt any Sith Lord would have approached Revan. Kreia said that Revan never really fell to the darkside. His intentions were to use the darkside to protect the Republic from the ancient sith.



It is stated many times. Kreia specifically, who was the Jedi HISTORIAN even. If anyone, she would know the power of the ancients. She, from her studies and experiences, also knows enough about Kun to decide how Revan stands.



Revan learned the instantkill not only with his close association with Traya, but also the fact he was at Malachor first. If he didn't learn the instantkill he most certainly learned something stronger. Sadow destroying the star was partly due to his meditation sphere and then himself. His powers in that case may not have been due to Sith Alchemy at all. Just his power with the force. Same with the illusions.


No, she said it was a move from which there is no defense. Somewhat obscure, but thats what she said.



Um, that is because she was never made by the TOTJ people. She was made by Bioware, and so she was probably a Jedi knight at the time. She was the Jedi historian. With respect to history, and knowledge, (along with Odan) she probably knew most.
1) By facing, it means to have seen Kun's power in a battle, to see him destroy other Jedi Masters, otherwise she will not know just how stronge Kun is.

2)Where is your evidence? Where does it say Malachor V possessed the strongest and best knowledge? No where, that is pure biased towards Revan,

3) Nihilus is a wound in the force, his ability is inherent and he only learned to control it, there is no proof Revan could do the same, and he would also fall to Nihilus.

4) You doubt alot, but its probably wrong, Kun possesed power and potential greater than Revan, its demonstrated through his quick thinking and his ability to become so powerful in a such a limited amount of time, remember it could not have been more than 6 months in which Kun learnt Sadow's teachings


5) She was no historian during the time of TOTJ, and even if she was, where does it prove that she ever recorded down Kun's power? Mind you, Kreia's word is not law, she is of Revan's time, facing and teaching Revan means that she would have the clearest view on him.

6) That is again speculation, Revan never demonstrated power such as that, Kreia may have learnt it, but theres always the possiblity that Revan was tooo weak to, adding to the fact, if you want to speculate that, i can just as easily speculate Kun did what Sadow did, this has been done before, the Meditation sphere only enhances to illusions it does not create them, nor does it allow any one to.

7) Kreia's word is not law, she does not know every last thing, nor is she the most canon source around, all your arguments have been based upon what she has said, that doesnt mean jack. Oh alrite then, Kun's amulet blasts tore through huge dark side creatures empowered with the force, Kun can own Kreia, Revan and Nadd at the same time, that is exactly what your trying to say. Btw accordingly people state logically Kreia, used the power through the exile.

8) She did not know most, if she was on Ossus with Odan, then she would have perished along with them, nowhere does it state she was the Jedi Historian of TOTJ, you'll need to prove your point, without using quotes from people who knew Revan and had a first hand expericence with his power. If Revan can contend with the Ancient Sith then i can logically assume Kun is OF the Ancient Sith. Besides Revan will never have to face force users with power like Ragnos or Sadow. Your point on Revan contending with the greatest is moot.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
3. Why wouldn't it have? Because Revan never wanted to kill any members of the republic, nor do we see him killing any I don't think. We see Revan creating a force storm too but right not of the magnitude of Sidious. Does that mean he can't?

What kind of nonsense is this? Of course he would! He was at war, and it is confirmed that he did kill Jedi and Mandalorians. Why would he try to hard to devise brilliant battle plans in the second Sith War, if not to eliminate the Republic military?

No, it is pure fact that the Ancient Sith are the most powerful of the most powerful. And the most powerful tends to be the creators or the first ones, as in the Ancient Sith and more importantly, the first dark jedi.

You haven't seen or heard the surviving Ancient Sith, therefore you cannot judge. We don't know how powerful they are now.


Again Revan never fully turned to the dark side. His job was to prepare the Republic for a greater threat, not to kill of the republic.

What are you talking about? Surviving Ancient Sith? We don't know how powerful they are? Sith aren't The Highlander, they don't live forever. They were the most powerful of the most powerful compared to anybody.

Again Revan never fully turned to the dark side. His job was to prepare the Republic for a greater threat, not to kill of the republic.

lol? Having his troops kill off the Republic Military and powerful Jedi Masters is not how you prepare something for war. Revan might have had good intentions, but the fact is he did eliminate Republic forces. He hasn't ever demonstrated the ability to cook up a force storm rivaling Sids. If he had that ability, he would have used it. Revan was clearly trying to take over the Galaxy to protect it, not prepare the Republic to protect it.

Right he was trying to take over the galaxy to protect it he was not trying to kill off the republic.

He wanted an Empire, not a Republic. This is quite clear.

The Rakatan computer states that the Star Forge is full of the force of an entire race and its technology. Malak later tells Revan that the true power of the Star Forge is from its ability to strengthen any force user powerful enough to wield it. He was described as being unstoppable with it.



We know that it was great enough for Traya to learn or at least gain enough knowledge to develop her instantkill. The Star Forge is an ANCIENT artifact, before Marka Ragnos created by a race so powerful in the force that they they based their entire technology and civilization on it. Malak being able to control such a device is damn powerful. At least on par with Sidious.



Unproven except in KOTOR 2, where it says "there are techniques in the force from which there is no defence." It is stated specifically in game that there is no defence. We have seen force choke resisted, many times. Palpatine disposed of those council members mostly from surprise, and secondly because they were pitiful weaklings. We saw Mundi taken down by 10 troopers, that is how powerful the PT council is.



When has Revan admitted? His contemporaries admit it by the way they speak of him, with clear admission of his superiority. Arguably the most powerful character of KOTOR 2 admits that Revan is far more powerful than she is.



The Freedon Nadd uprising and Sith War were not of the KOTOR era. Revan corrupted those of the KOTOR era. They all followed Revan to the Mandalorian Wars and ultimately fell at Malachor. Sion's assasination group was a result of Malak being defeated and Revan becoming a Jedi. It was not a significant source of Jedi falling to the darkside, because Sion himself stated that his only pleasure comes from killing Jedi.



That is partly because Revan became a Jedi. Jedi don't do that type of stuff



Yea, having powers that are described as "calling lightning from the sky" are sparks.



Right so he could destroy the Republic infrastructure? Force storm can also be resisted. It took DE Luke and Leia to withstand his power if I recall, and Revan is certainly more powerful, having defeated an "unstoppable" Malak powered by the Force of an entire race.



Biased Kreia? Sion also describes Revan as the only one who could "mend a fractured galaxy." Malak described him in the end as being far powerful than he was. Basically the whole order seemed to revere him.



The Ancient Sith basically included figures such as Ragnos, Kressh, and Sadow. Wimps, hardly.

indeed

The Rakatan computer states that the Star Forge is full of the force of an entire race and its technology. Malak later tells Revan that the true power of the Star Forge is from its ability to strengthen any force user powerful enough to wield it. He was described as being unstoppable with it.

Ah, but he never claims to have harnessed all the power in The Star Forge. "Unstoppable" to whom? Zhar? Bastila?

The Star Forge is an ANCIENT artifact, before Marka Ragnos created by a race so powerful in the force that they they based their entire technology and civilization on it. Malak being able to control such a device is damn powerful. At least on par with Sidious.

Ancient doesn't equal powerful. And you're plain wrong, the Star Forge was CONSTRUCTED at the peak of the Rakatan Empire. The Rakata Empire, although terribly miniscule at 500 Star Systems, was already at it's peak when the Star Forge was constructed. Their civilization revolved around it for a time, it did not bring them to their prime. It made ships and droids. It helped destroyed them. Malak being able to harness the power of the Star Forge did boost his power, but it's never specified by how much. And yes, Malak would be on par with ROTS Sidious at this point for sure.

When has Revan admitted? His contemporaries admit it by the way they speak of him, with clear admission of his superiority. Arguably the most powerful character of KOTOR 2 admits that Revan is far more powerful than she is.

Coming from this one, biased source. Kreia's statements are still unproven.

Unproven except in KOTOR 2, where it says "there are techniques in the force from which there is no defence." It is stated specifically in game that there is no defence. We have seen force choke resisted, many times.

Again, you're using simply using 'statements'. The people in KOTOR times don't have unlimited knowledge of the Force, they may not know it can be resisted, or they're simply judging from the one single showcase. Sidious was described several times as a divinity, "faster than the eye can see" and the most powerful Sith Lord ever. However, I dismiss these statements because they're unproven.

The Freedon Nadd uprising and Sith War were not of the KOTOR era.

40 years prior. Same time period, some same Jedi. People like Vodo, Nomi etc could have easily survived to the KotOR era.

And no, Revan did not corrupt all those people, he basically started a chain reaction that screwed the Jedi Council.

Yea, having powers that are described as "calling lightning from the sky" are sparks. confused

Compared to the size of Palpy's force storms, they are.


Right so he could destroy the Republic infrastructure? Force storm can also be resisted. It took DE Luke and Leia to withstand his power if I recall, and Revan is certainly more powerful, having defeated an "unstoppable" Malak powered by the Force of an entire race.

Of course they can be resisted! But he doesn't have to be killing Jedi now does he? Frying thousands of republic ships should do the trick.
And DE Luke, DE Leia, and DE Jacen Solo managed to resist through a technique called "Force Illumination" where it combined all three's Force Potential to one person. That was like, 3x Skywalkers. Since Revan's alone in this fight, Illumination won't help him.

Sion also describes Revan as the only one who could "mend a fractured galaxy." Malak described him in the end as being far powerful than he was. Basically the whole order seemed to revere him.

What the heck does that even mean anyways? "Mend a fractured galaxy"? Sounds like he was a great leader. And yes, Malak did describe Revan as more powerful the second time around, but last I checked he didn't specify by how much.

The Ancient Sith basically included figures such as Ragnos, Kressh, and Sadow. Wimps, hardly.

Weren't those the Ancient Sith before the Great Hyperspace War, when they lost a shitload of knowledge? Yeah. Although in all likelyhood they are powerful, everyone's scared of them apparently, they could be the Rakata 2: Uber at first, falls (Hyperspace War), then descend to primitiveness.

Ancient Sith would be Ragnos, Simus, Kressh and Sadow. There were others like Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall that came a few thousand years earlier.

hmm.. as for the rots sidious and de I messed up and tried to put de not rots I tried to edit it but it wont let me so my bad sorry

AS far as we know, the Ancient Sith are long dead, so how is Revan even going to contend with the Ancient Sith

Zephiel, you argue with no logical reasoning, you provide biase quotes from Kreia, and whilst Kun has been crowned by the Ancient Sith, Revan is not even recognised by them.

Reason being that its very likely Kun exceeds Revan in both potential and knowledge. Revan craved knowledge, but by the time he came about, the destructive knowledge that most of the Ancient Sith were lost, examples that are left are the instakill and thats about it. All Sith Alchemy and Knowledge became lost, Malachor V, did not hold half as much as Yavin 4, nor Korriban which most of the Sith that preceded Kun had looted.

Unless, you can provide solid proof that Revan had any shred of knowledge that would enable to him to perform feats on par with Kun, your points are moot. Remember that also the strongest Sith, reside as spirits where they died, inclusive of Kun and the Ancients, however Revan has not the power to attain such a form.

Originally posted by Faunus
DE Sidious, most likely. If he survives, and pulls past Mace, Exar grinds him into dust.

Agreed, nobody is downplaying Revan's feats but in terms of power, Kun just had more access to knowledge and sith teachings, and Sadow's trusty Amulet.

This is wrong, Revan is described as a Sith Lord on the website, kinda like the Narrator and when the game starts. Before you even move, this is not a gameplay element this is a story element and the only way you can become a Sith Lord is if your crowned as one, so Revan was crowned a Sith Lord...



Most of the Sith before Kun looted Korriban? Where do you get that from, first time I heard it.

Also Yavin IV had the remnants of Sadow his knowledge the little bit of knowledge he would have taken with him on his ship, Malachor V is described as a planet sized storehouse of ancient Sith knowledge, that would be a bit more then Yavin... Don't forget Korriban, I would say Revan had acces to a hell of a lot more knowledge then Kun. And again The instakill technique can not be learned.

Neither Revan nor Kreia, nor the Exile nor Nihilus learned that technique, three of them for some reason could use it. But they never learned it there.



Do you have any evidence for that? Kun never really died he just removed his spirit from his body using a strange ritual with the power of all the Massassi on Yavin. The ancients were indeed spirits, but so was Obi Wan, so was Anakin, Yoda... I wouldn't say it takes a lot to beocme a spirit, just that it takes a lot of power to stay one. And seeing as Revan his life isn't finished yet, we couldn't safely say what the hell happened.