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MONEY OUT OF NOTHING

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/pileonbillsfethr.gif
'If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to' - Dorothy Parker (1893 - 1967)

Hello all ...
Since last year a vociferous group of Canadians have been pursuing a class action lawsuit in Vancouver against the banking cartel for the illegal creation of 'money out of nothing'.
Of course, the system is doing all it can to crush this exposure of its breathtaking deceit, including having the case heard by Judge Nicole Garson, who, before becoming a Supreme Court judge, was lead counsel for one of the defendant banks - TD Canada Trust. What a monumental conflict of interest.
John Ruiz Dempsey, who describes himself as a criminologist and forensic litigation specialist, filed the suit on behalf of the People of Canada, but what he and his colleagues are seeking to expose affects every man, woman and child on the planet - in fact every form of life. The banking system controls human choice and also finances the destruction of habitat and eco-systems through its extraordinary global fraud.

John Ruiz Dempsey is leading the class action lawsuit against the banks. See - http://www.theclassactionsuit.com/index.html

I have been writing and talking about the 'money out of nothing' scam for more than a decade. It is a sad confirmation of the 'acceptance society' that all but a few of the six billion people manipulated, controlled, even starved, by the banking system have no idea how it actually works.
I was speaking, appropriately enough in Canada, some eight years ago about how 'money' is created and an economist in the audience walked out, announcing to a friend at the back of the hall that I was talking nonsense. Ironically, it was the man who earned his living from the financial system who was talking through his rear end.
Here was an economist who had no idea how 'money' came into 'existence'. And he is not alone. Ask these media 'economics correspondents' how money is created and they won't know either. They are just more repeaters, repeating what they are told to believe. Even more than that, most simply never even think about how 'money' comes into circulation.
A man attended a small weekend event I presented many years ago who had spent most of his working life in the banking system. He became a bank manager agreeing endless times to make loans to people and businesses. And yet it was only in his final year before retirement, when the bank moved him into a research project, that he realised how 'money' is created - or, rather, isn't.
'There is no money, is there?', I remember him saying to me, a bewildered look on his face.
Now if people like that don't know how the system brings 'money' into theoretical circulation, what chance have the people as a whole got?

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Banker at work

The money fraud is not new. Lending people money that doesn't exist and charging them interest on it - the so-called 'credit' or 'usury' system - has been used for centuries, going back at least to Sumer and Babylon, to control the population through manufactured (in truth non-existent) 'debt'. How can you be in debt to someone when they have lent you nothing to start with?
The Knights Templar secret society network employed the credit-debt system when it created the foundations of the modern banking system in the 12th and 13th centuries and this connected with the Illuminati grouping known as the Black Nobility operating out of Venice at the same time and employing the same fraud.

The Knights Templar - still one of the prime strands in the Illuminati web - were running a credit-debt system nearly a thousand years ago

Today, the now global nexus is coordinated by 'central banks' in each country which appear to be working independently, but are in fact working together to a common end. The Bank of England, chartered by the Black Nobility's William of Orange in 1694, has been the spider at the centre of this web and so, too, since the 1930s, has the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland. Like the Bank of England, the central banks were chartered by the descendants of the banking families of Genoa and Venice. The Knight Templar, operating out of centres like London, are also heavily involved.
The banking sting works like this:
If you or me have a million pounds, then we can lend a million pounds. Very simple. But if a bank has a million pounds it can lend ten times that - and more - and charge interest on it. If even a fraction of the people who theoretically have 'money' deposited in the banks went today to remove it, the banks would slam the doors in half an hour because they do not have it. Money in the bank is a myth, another confidence trick.
If you go into a bank and ask for a loan, the bank does not print a single new note nor mint a single new coin. It merely types the amount of the loan into your account. From that moment you are paying interest to the bank on what is no more than figures typed on a computer screen.
But if you fail to pay back that non-existent loan, they take your wealth that does exist, your home, land, car and possessions, to the estimated value of whatever figure was typed onto that screen.
Here is a simple explanation of how banks operate from a mainstream economics textbook called Success in Economics by Derek Lobley B.A. (John Murray Publishers Ltd, London, 1978 edition):

'Let us imagine an economy in which there is only one bank. Soon after beginning business it finds that individuals and firms have placed £10,000 with it for safe-keeping. Its balance sheet (ignoring the shareholders' capital or property owned by the bank) would appear as follows:

Balance Sheet 1
Liabilities Customers' deposits £10,000
Assets Cash in hand £10,000

The balance sheet is in effect a photograph of the bank's position at a particular point in time. The liabilities show the amounts that the bank may be called upon to provide to its customers and the assets show the cash and other resources available to the bank to meets its liabilities.
At this stage it is quite clear that the bank has sufficient cash in its till to meet any demands made by its customers.
In practice customers prefer to settle their debts with each other by cheque, ordering the bank to transfer money from one account to another. Thus if Adam and Brown have each deposited £500 at the bank, and Adam owes Brown £100, he can settle his debt by instructing the bank to reduce his account by £100 and to increase Brown's by the same amount. No cash changes hands; the bank still has obligations to its customers of £10,000; there has simply been a slight readjustment to those obligations.
If all the bank's depositors were always prepared to settle their debts in this way the bank could forget all about its holdings of cash. Customers will, however, need to draw a certain amount of cash from the bank each week to make small payments (it is not usual to write cheques for very small amounts) and to pay those people who prefer not to use the banking system.
If the bank discovers that, at the most, the weekly withdrawal of cash amounts to 10 per cent of total deposits, and that this is quickly re-deposited by traders accepting cash payments from customers, then the most cash the bank needs to meet demands from its customers with deposits of £10,000 is actually only £1000.
Alternatively we may take the view that with cash in hand of £10,000 the bank can afford liabilities of £100,000.
In this case let us imagine a customer, Mr Clark, who approaches the bank for a loan of £1000. The bank manager is agreeable and opens an account for him with a credit balance of £1000. Mr Clark can now write cheques to the value of £1000 although he has placed no money in the bank; he simply promises to repay the £1000 plus interest, having probably offered some security to the bank. The bank's balance sheet (2) now shows a different picture:

Liabilities
Customers' deposits £11,000
Total £11,000

Assets
Cash in hand £10,000
Loans to Customers £1,000
(or promises to repay by customers)
Total £11,000

There is now insufficient cash to supply all the customers if they wished to withdraw their deposits, but the bank knows that the most that is likely to be withdrawn is £1100.
It will, therefore, be prepared to go on making loans (or creating credit, which is the same thing) until the cash that is held is equivalent to only 10 per cent of deposits (as per Balance Sheet 3):

Liabilities
Customers' deposits £100,000
Total £100,000

Assets
Cash in hand £10,000
Loans to Customers £90,000
(or promises to repay by customers)
Total £100,000

So far as customers are concerned the standing of their account is the same whether they have actually deposited cash to open the account or whether it has been created by a loan. When they spend their money the recipient has no means of knowing whether or not they originally deposited cash.
Thus in creating credit the banks have added to the money supply.'

More than that, because what we call money is not brought into circulation by governments, but by private banks making loans to customers, the banks control how much 'money' is in circulation. The more loans they choose to make, the more money is in circulation. And what is the difference between an economic boom (prosperity) and an economic depression (poverty)? One thing only: the amount of money in circulation. That's all. Through this system, the private banks, ultimately controlled by the same people, decide how much money will be in circulation and thus create booms and busts at will.
No wonder Meyer Rothschild said: 'Give me control of a nation's money
and I care not who makes her laws'.

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/buynothing2003.gif

Most of the 'money' in circulation is not physical money, cash and coins. It is represented as figures passing from one computer account to another electronically via money transfers, credit-cards and cheque books. The more money, electronic or otherwise, that is in circulation, the more economic activity can take place and therefore the more products are bought and sold, the more income people have, and the more jobs are available. But a constant theme of the Illuminati financial coup has been to create a boom by making lots of loans and then pull the plug.
Overpaid economists and economic correspondents, most of whom have no idea what is going on, will tell you that boom and bust is part of some natural 'economic cycle' when in fact it is systematic manipulation to steal the real wealth of the world.
During a boom many people get themselves into even more debt. The vibrant economic activity means that businesses borrow more for new technology to increase production to meet demand. People borrow more to buy a bigger house and a new, more expensive car, because they are so confident about their economic future.
Then, at the most opportune moment, the major bankers, coordinated by the Illuminati network, raise interest rates to suppress the demand for loans and they begin to call in loans already outstanding. They ensure they make far fewer loans than before. This has the affect of taking units of exchange ('money' in its various forms) out of circulation. This suppresses demand for products and leads to fewer jobs because there is not enough money in circulation to generate the necessary economic activity. So people and businesses can no longer earn enough to repay their 'loans' and they go bankrupt.
The banks then take over their real wealth, their business, home, land, car and possessions in return for non-repayment of a loan that was never more than figures typed on a screen. This has been going on in cycles over thousands of years, especially the last few centuries, and the real wealth of the world has been sucked out of the population and into the hands of those who control the banking system - the Illuminati bloodlines.

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The Great Depression of the 1930s was engineered by those who control the banking cartel. When you control the creation of 'money' you have the power to decide if it's boom or bust.

The same applies to countries. Instead of creating their own interest-free money, governments borrow it from the private banking cartel and pay the debt and interest by taxation of the people. Fantastic amounts of the money you pay in taxes go straight to the private banks to pay back loans which the governments could create themselves interest-free!!
Why don't they do it? Because the Illuminati control governments like they control the banks.
So called 'Third World' or 'developing countries are handing over control of their land and resources to the international bankers because they cannot pay back the vast loans made, on purpose, by the banks to ensnare them in this very situation. The world does not have to be in poverty and conflict, it is manipulated to be that way because it serves the Illuminati agenda for total global control.

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Poverty across the world is invariably caused by the manipulations of the banking system and the transnational corporations- both controlled by the Illuminati

It is the same with the stockmarkets where these guys are moving trillions of dollars a day around the financial and banking networks, so deciding if they go up or down, soar or crash. Stockmarket crashes don't just happen, they are made to happen. And if you sell before the crash because you know its coming and buy when the stocks have collapsed, you can increase your wealth and power dramatically when you push the markets upwards again.

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Nathan rothschild

There is the famous story of Nathan Rothschild during the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 who began to sell vast numbers of stocks on the London Stock Exchange to promote the belief that Napoleon had defeated the army of Wellington. Rothschild knew different, but his actions started a selling panic and stock prices plummeted. Then, just before the official news arrived of Wellington's victory, Rothschild agents began buying up huge quantities of rock-bottom stocks. The world financial markets are being manipulated in this fashion every day.
There is no way that the people can be free of control while we have interest paid by governments, business and individuals on money that does not exist, except as figures in a computer program. It is the very foundation of the control of the many by the few and without it their whole house of cards would collapse.

'John D. Rockefeller was the founder of the "Federal" Reserve Bank . He was a typical usurer. Letting other people do the work and then reaping the benefits. It is a shame that the pious hypocrite NEVER heard a sermon on usury when he attended the Euclid St. Baptist Church every Sunday.
Even though the "Federal" Reserve Bank has the name FEDERAL in it's title, it has no connection with the Federal Government except that it OWNS the government. The President of the U.S. and Secretary of the Treasury do not sit on its board!! The Chairman is appointed for a period of 14 years. The President does appoint him but that is just a formality as the Fed can easily ruin an uncooperative President by causing a recession or depression.'
Read more - http://www.reformation.org/federal-reserve.html

A Phone Call To The Fed

The following is a conversation with Mr. Ron Supinski of the Public Information Department of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank.
CALLER - Mr. Supinski, does my country own the Federal Reserve System?
MR. SUPINSKI - We are an agency of the government.
CALLER - That's not my question. Is it owned by my country?
MR. SUPINSKI - It is an agency of the government created by Congress.
CALLER - Is the Federal Reserve a Corporation?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes ...
CALLER - Does my government own any of the stock in the Federal Reserve?
MR. SUPINSKI - No, it is owned by the member banks.
CALLER - Are the member banks private corporations?
MR.SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Are Federal Reserve Notes backed by anything?
MR. SUPINSKI-Yes, by the assets of the Federal Reserve but, primarily by the power of Congress to lay tax on the people.
CALLER - Did you say, by the power to collect taxes is what backs Federal Reserve Notes?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes.......
CALLER - What are the total assets of the Federal Reserve?
MR. SUPINSKI - The San Francisco Bank has $36 billion in assets.
CALLER - What are these assets composed of?
MR. SUPINSKI - Gold, the Federal Reserve Bank itself and government securities.
CALLER - What value does the Federal Reserve Bank carry gold per oz. on their books?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don't have that information but the San Francisco Bank has $1.6 billion in gold.
CALLER - Are you saying the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco has $1.6 billion in gold, the bank itself and the balance of the assets is government securities?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes.
CALLER - Where does the Federal Reserve get Federal Reserve Notes from?
MR. SUPINSKI - They are authorized by the Treasury.
CALLER - How much does the Federal Reserve pay for a $10 Federal Reserve Note?
MR. SUPINSKI - Fifty to seventy cents.
CALLER - How much do they pay for a $100.00 Federal Reserve Note?
MR. SUPINSKI - The same fifty to seventy cents.
CALLER - To pay only fifty cents for a $100.00 is a tremendous gain, isn't it?

continued..

MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - According to the US Treasury, the Federal Reserve pays $20.60 per 1,000 denomination or a little over two cents for a $100.00 bill, is that correct?
MR. SUPINSKI - That is probably close.
CALLER - Doesn't the Federal Reserve use the Federal Reserve Notes that cost about two cents each to purchase US Bonds from the government?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, but there is more to it than that.
CALLER - Basically, that is what happens?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, basically you are correct.
CALLER - How many Federal Reserve Notes are in circulation?
MR. SUPINSKI - $263 billion and we can only account for a small percentage.
CALLER - Where did they go?
MR. SUPINSKI - People's mattress, buried in their back yards and illegal drug money.
CALLER - Since the debt is payable in Federal Reserve Notes, how can the $4 trillion national debt be paid-off with the total Federal Reserve Notes in circulation?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don't know.
CALLER - If the Federal Government would collect every Federal Reserve Note in circulation would it be mathematically possible to pay the $4 trillion national debt?
MR. SUPINSKI - No
CALLER - Am I correct when I say, $1 deposited in a member bank $8 can be lent out through Fractional Reserve Policy?
MR. SUPINSKI - About $7.
CALLER - Correct me if I am wrong but, $7 of additional Federal Reserve Notes were never put in circulation. But, for lack of better words were "created out of thin air " in the form of credits and the two cents per denomination were not paid either. In other words, the Federal Reserve Notes were not physically printed but, in reality were created by a journal entry and lent at interest. Is that correct?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Is that the reason there are only $263 billion Federal Reserve Notes in circulation?
MR. SUPINSKI - That is part of the reason.
CALLER - Am I mistaking that when the Federal Reserve Act was passed (on Christmas Eve) in 1913, it transferred the power to coin and issue our nation's money and to regulate the value thereof from Congress to a Private corporation. And my country now borrows what should be our own money from the Federal Reserve (a private corporation) plus interest. Is that correct and the debt can never be paid off under the current money system of country?
MR. SUPINSKI - Basically, yes.
CALLER - I smell a rat, do you?
MR. SUPINSKI - I am sorry, I can't answer that, I work here.
CALLER - Has the Federal Reserve ever been independently audited?
MR. SUPINSKI - We are audited.
CALLER - Why is there a current House Resolution 1486 calling for a complete audit of the Federal Reserve by the GAO and why is the Federal Reserve resisting?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don't know.
CALLER - Does the Federal Reserve regulate the value of Federal Reserve Notes and interest rates?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Explain how the Federal Reserve System can be Constitutional if, only the Congress of the US, which comprises of the Senate and the House of representatives has the power to coin and issue our money supply and regulate the value thereof? Nowhere, in the Constitution does it give Congress the power or authority to transfer any powers granted under the Constitution to a private corporation or, does it?
MR. SUPINSKI - I am not an expert on constitutional law. I can refer you to our legal department.
CALLER - I can tell you I have read the Constitution. It does NOT provide that any power granted can be transferred to a private corporation. Doesn't it specifically state, all other powers not granted are reserved to the States and to the citizens? Does that mean to a private corporation?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don't think so, but we were created by Congress.
CALLER - Would you agree it is our country and it should be our money as provided by our Constitution?
MR. SUPINSKI - I understand what you are saying.
CALLER - Why should we borrow our own money from a private consortium of bankers? Isn't this why we had a revolution, created a separate sovereign nation and a Bill of Rights?
MR. SUPINSKI - (Declined to answer).
CALLER - Has the Federal Reserve ever been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court?
MR. SUPINSKI - I believe there has been court cases on the matter.
CALLER - Have there been Supreme Court Cases?
MR. SUPINSKI - I think so, but I am not sure.
CALLER - Didn't the Supreme Court declare unanimously in A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. vs. US and Carter vs. Carter Coal Co. the corporative-state arrangement an unconstitutional delegation of legislative power?
MR. SUPINSKI - I don't know, I can refer you to our legal department.
CALLER - Isn't the current money system a house of cards that must fall because, the debt can mathematically never be paid-off?
MR. SUPINSKI - It appears that way. I can tell you have been looking into this matter and are very knowledgeable. However, we do have a solution.
CALLER - What is the solution?
MR. SUPINSKI - The Debit Card.
CALLER - Do you mean under the EFT Act (Electronic Funds Transfer)? Isn't that very frightening, when one considers the capabilities of computers? It would provide the government and all it's agencies, including the Federal Reserve such information as: You went to the gas station @ 2:30 and bought $10.00 of unleaded gas @ $1.41 per gallon and then you went to the grocery store @ 2:58 and bought bread, lunch meat and milk for $12.32 and then went to the drug store @ 3:30 and bought cold medicine for $5.62. In other words, they would know where we go, when we went, how much we paid, how much the merchant paid and how much profit he made. Under the EFT they will literally know everything about us. Isn't that kind of scary?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, it makes you wonder.
CALLER - I smell a GIANT RAT that has overthrown my constitution. Aren't we paying tribute in the form of income taxes to a consortium of private bankers?
MR. SUPINSKI - I can't call it tribute, it is interest.
CALLER - Haven't all elected officials taken an oath of office to preserve and defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic? Isn't the Federal Reserve a domestic enemy?
MR. SUPINSKI - I can't say that.
CALLER - Our elected officials and members of the Federal Reserve are guilty of aiding and abetting the overthrowing of my Constitution and that is treason. Isn't the punishment of treason death?
MR. SUPINSKI - I believe so.
CALLER - Thank you for your time and information and if I may say so, I think you should take the necessary steps to protect you and your family and withdraw your money from the banks before the collapse, I am.
MR. SUPINSKI - It doesn't look good.
CALLER - May God have mercy on the souls who are behind this unconstitutional and criminal act called the Federal Reserve. When the ALMIGHTY MASS awakens to this giant hoax, they will not take it with a grain of salt. It has been a pleasure talking to you and I thank you for your time. I hope you will take my advice before it does collapse.
MR. SUPINSKI - Unfortunately, it does not look good.
CALLER - Have a good day and thanks for your time.
MR. SUPINSKI - Thanks for calling.

apply now for your bank of lizards credit card with 0.0% 6 month introductory financing (149999.9% there after)

yawn

yeh much more things to worry about..like people making homewrok threads ay?

The cut-and-paste kid strikes again!

I'll come back and read this when I'm bored.


Or maybe not.

"How can you be in debt to someone when they have lent you nothing to start with?"

How stupid is THIS line?

They lent you credit!

So long as ou think they are good for it- as banks tend to be- then it works. Money works on belief.

Geez, this guy is clearly clueless.

"If even a fraction of the people who theoretically have 'money' deposited in the banks went today to remove it, the banks would slam the doors in half an hour because they do not have it. Money in the bank is a myth, another confidence trick."

That's ANOTHER staggering line, but only because of its brevity.

Is your intention to try and preach to the stupid, Deano? Anyone with half a brain knows that is how banks work. This isn't a hidden conspiracy, you know. It was one of the basic plotlines in It's a Wonderful Life for a start.

Aside from all this Knight's Templar (and subsequent conspiracy) bullshit, all this stuff about how money and banking works is stuff I learnt in first year Economics. This isn't at uni, you understand, I mean GCSE, when I was 15.

Yes, money is largely invisible and dependant upon public confidence.

Also, the sky is blue, leaves are green, night follows day and the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Wait... quite a lot of conspiracy people doubt that last one too. Adolf Hitlier doubted it, reputedly. Good company there.

It's NOT a confidence trick, it is the system upon which modern civilisation, and all the nebefiots we associate with it, works. Ecnomics underpins our entire way of life. If you want to return to a subsistence economy, feel free to go grow your own food.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Also, the sky is blue, leaves are green, night follows day and the Earth revolves around the Sun.

LIES!!! ALL OF IT!!!! fine ush, you want to believe what all the sheep believe thats fine. as for me, im not buying that school/media/good government crap.
the sky is green, the leaves are red and black plaid, and the sun revolves around david iche.

Doesn't this belong in the "Conspiracy Thread"?

Deano, you're cut and paste actions have only voice the opinions of the paranoid and misinformed as they preach to the gullible and clueless.

Thanks for playing.

I've gotta say, I thought most people knew that was how banks worked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/turtle777/attention_whore.jpg

Deano Do you know how a world would work without money???

It wouldn't...

Really Your starting to sound more and more like a Communist...

who said anything about no money?

I just got some shiny new shoes and I'm currrently stuffing my face full with duck-liver pate. Time for a sip of ol' Dom. All paid for by my Platinum AMEX...What's this thread about?

You said in the other thread the only way to take back control from the illuminate was to other throw all the banks!

Now either we scrap all the banks, thus no money... or we continue on...

no it was mentioned that there should be credit free money. then there woundt be mass scale poverty. try reading.

He's copying and pasting someone else's material.

wtf does it matter. im asking for opinions on the article. not to get attacked.

Originally posted by Deano
no it was mentioned that there should be credit free money. then there woundt be mass scale poverty. try reading.

credit free money?

I did read what you wrote in the other thread...

This isn't just taking the illuminate out of the world... This is taking the illuminate out, all social structure and hierarchy...

Could can't distinguish 1 from the other...

Now theres alot of wrongs with the world... But simply pointing them out isn't good enough... Find a solution...

Originally posted by Deano
wtf does it matter. im asking for opinions on the article. not to get attacked.

You should make it a point to show that you're showing an article for speculation and review, and whether or not your own ideals conform to this article. To do otherwise is just asking for a rude response.

You know what is shocking and strange about money, credit, gold, and checks????

They all have to do with...... NUMBERS!!!!! shock

Oh noes!!!!1111 Teh (_)ltimayte connexshun!!!111ONEONEELEVEN

Didn't read cause it's long.......and I'm not into long sometimes.........but if you buy it, the you should be able to afford it.........I myself used to pay things off every month........not always though anymore........


When you owe they own you........

Originally posted by Wesker
Oh noes!!!!1111 Teh (_)ltimayte connexshun!!!111ONEONEELEVEN

Or you can say "Bling-bling"

Originally posted by debbiejo

When you owe they own you........

Not only a fact....but also very true deb.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Didn't read cause it's long.......and I'm not into long sometimes.........but if you buy it, the you should be able to afford it.........I myself used to pay things off every month........not always though anymore........


When you owe they own you........

And thats the reason people should save money instead of going into debt.

Originally posted by debbiejo



When you owe they own you........

well done debs. thats one of the main goals to it. and no one can see

would there be problems if there was interest free money?

There is no such thing as "free money" Deano.

And no one works for free...

...unless you're doing charity.

Originally posted by Deano
well done debs. thats one of the main goals to it. and no one can see

would there be problems if there was interest free money?

Yes there would be some huge problems, with the banks not making any money and going bankrupt...

We'd have to borrow it from each other......That's the it used to be though.

Originally posted by debbiejo
We'd have to borrow it from each other......That's the it used to be though.

And thats supposed to be reliable? How could you stop somebody from borrowind a lot of money and then never returning it?

Originally posted by Fishy
And thats supposed to be reliable? How could you stop somebody from borrowind a lot of money and then never returning it?

Guns and swords and slavery and debtors prison and magic elf wizards shooting fireballs...................ok I made up the last one however debtors prison was a common way to enforce debt.

Originally posted by soleran30
Guns and swords and slavery and debtors prison and magic elf wizards shooting fireballs...................ok I made up the last one however debtors prison was a common way to enforce debt.

Yes but you would need to be able to prove it, and I don't know about you but I wouldn't let my friends sign a contract.

So either you would have no prove or you would have prove and make a contract and you would probably demand an interest rate anyways because your smart and you do this a lot and then hey what do you know, your a bank.

Originally posted by Fishy
And thats supposed to be reliable? How could you stop somebody from borrowind a lot of money and then never returning it? Well you can't really. Though I feel if you lend money out, you should do so with that expectation as well........I do it with the intention of never getting it back, so if I do, then great, if I don't, then it was a gift that was needed..........I don't like hard feelings over money. Life is too short for that.

thats right deb. you shoudnt let money rule your life

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well you can't really. Though I feel if you lend money out, you should do so with that expectation as well........I do it with the intention of never getting it back, so if I do, then great, if I don't, then it was a gift that was needed..........I don't like hard feelings over money. Life is too short for that.

No hard feelings right...

What if you would loan me your live savings so I could start a great and promosing bussines that could give you all the money back within a year. This is all the money you have, your retirement fund and everything and then all of a sudden I jump on a plane and flee, and now you are left without money. Without money to pay the rent to buy food to buy stuff you want, and you will never get your money back.

Or how about people stealing your money? I mean if you can't store it on a bank you can steal it from somebody's home...

Originally posted by Fishy
No hard feelings right...

What if you would loan me your live savings so I could start a great and promosing bussines that could give you all the money back within a year. This is all the money you have, your retirement fund and everything and then all of a sudden I jump on a plane and flee, and now you are left without money. Without money to pay the rent to buy food to buy stuff you want, and you will never get your money back.

Or how about people stealing your money? I mean if you can't store it on a bank you can steal it from somebody's home...


No my elf wizard would gaurd my money in my home.

Not to mention anyone that goes out into a business venture and lends money without a business plan in hand and meeting contacts and etc etc is a tool. My point is there are scam artists out there today just like there would be if there were no banks. Its about calculated risks.

Originally posted by Fishy
No hard feelings right...

What if you would loan me your live savings so I could start a great and promosing bussines that could give you all the money back within a year. First of all, I would never loan you all my lifes saving, that would be an idiotic thing to do...........You have to do things within reason. Some things need more insurances.........Now, if in old days, you couldn't pay up,.........I might just take your son............hahaha

Originally posted by debbiejo
First of all, I would never loan you all my lifes saving, that would be an idiotic thing to do...........You have to do things within reason. Some things need more insurances.........Now, if in old days, you couldn't pay up,.........I might just take your son............hahaha

If you wouldn't loan me a lot of money then how should I buy a house? How am I supposed to start a new bussines? Without banks without the ability to loan large amounts of money we would be screwed, and the simple fact is people won't loan other people large amounts of money, company's however will, but company's want to make money meaning you will pay interest on the money.

Originally posted by Fishy
If you wouldn't loan me a lot of money then how should I buy a house? How am I supposed to start a new bussines? Without banks without the ability to loan large amounts of money we would be screwed, and the simple fact is people won't loan other people large amounts of money, company's however will, but company's want to make money meaning you will pay interest on the money. I wouldn't help you...........Sorry.........haha........I need to know my limits. What people did in old days was all help with what the need would be.......not so much money, but taking care of the need.......If you're talking about a new house, well that was always done as a familiar thing to do.......just was accepted to do so.

Originally posted by Deano
well done debs. thats one of the main goals to it. and no one can see

would there be problems if there was interest free money?

Yes!

Because there would be no incentive to lend money.

And money spent on credit is one of the driving forces behind modern economies. Money- even money borrowed against the futire- is MUCH more useful spent than unspent. It keeps things going, empoweres economies, pays wages, allows expansion.

Remove the concept of interest and you will crash the economy.

Credit gives people opportunities. Countless numbers of small businesses that have contributed to society and provided employment are only there because they could borrow to set up in the first place.

And you don't get the sort of cash needed to set up a business by borrowing from your mates, unless you are lucky enough to have very rich mates.

There has to be restrictions on purchases with credit cards. If there weren't people would spend more than they earn. Which is why I'm all for credit limits.

if the banks ran no risk of losing money, there would be no credit restrictions at all, as well as no credit scoring. what? you want to borrow 6,000,000? sure no problem. please sign here...in blood

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
There has to be restrictions on purchases with credit cards. If there weren't people would spend more than they earn. Which is why I'm all for credit limits.

Credit limits should really be down to the lender, who after all has liabilities if the debtor becomes bankrupt.

The better solution is to provide the resources for everyone to be money smart. If you borrow over your head, that was probably a stupid thing to do.

Not necessarily stupid but rather careless or undiscipline (sp?) on credits. There have been surveys showing a large amount of colleage students going bankrupt before their graduation. People need to understand that credit isn't free money. As I said earlier there is no such thing as free money. When you borrow you must pay it back.

I'm somewhat at a loss at understanding how people can qualify for college but not understand that credit isn't for free... but oh well.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'm somewhat at a loss at understanding how people can qualify for college but not understand that credit isn't for free... but oh well.

in the u.s. there are no required courses in high school nor college dedicated to handling personal finances. but it makes sense doesnt it? wouldnt the whole system of credit and lending just crumble if everyone suddenly turned frugal?

And they say school prepares you for life...

I think the issue of college students not owning up to their credit debts has a lot more to do with the individual's background and rearing and less to do with education on the issue. And besides, since when has a class ever detered kids from not doing something? Who here attended mandatory pregnancy awareness or drug awareness seminars in school and still either did the deed or knew another who did?

Originally posted by Wesker
Who here attended mandatory pregnancy awareness or drug awareness seminars in school and still either did the deed or knew another who did?

whats that have to do with it? you are comparing preachy lectures of "say no to drugs" and "dont have sex" with the idea of an actual home economics course. not a lecture saying "dont go into debt" but more to explain the credit system and how to handle personal finances and balance your own budget. the most universally practical course and our functionless k-12 system cannot be bothered.

Originally posted by PVS
whats that have to do with it? you are comparing preachy lectures of "say no to drugs" and "dont have sex" with the idea of an actual home economics course. not a lecture saying "dont go into debt" but more to explain the credit system and how to handle personal finances and balance your own budget. the most universally practical course and our functionless k-12 system cannot be bothered.

The entire point was, learning from school doesn't exactly show promise for curbing bad life decisions. And it's not exactly lack of knowledge that causes these kinds of decisions, it's how people grow up and become. If you have a kid who's never known true responsibility, his parents bought him everything, and he suddenly gets credit cards, what is he most likely to do? Spend thoughtlessly. On the other side, you have someone who was indoctrined with responsibility or had to take the reins before acquiring credit, and what are they most likely to do? Be cautious and thoughtful.

That was my point.

I'm not talking about some sort of course being run. I am talking about the fact that credit isn't free being blindingly obvious.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'm not talking about some sort of course being run. I am talking about the fact that credit isn't free being blindingly obvious.

Certainly not questioning you there, but since when has "blindingly obvious" ever stopped most people?

It's also blindlingly obvious that smoking kills, but people still do it against their better judgment.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'm not talking about some sort of course being run. I am talking about the fact that credit isn't free being blindingly obvious.

gee thanks, but i knew that. i was only pointing out a tragic irony in the u.s. system of education.

U.S. education lags behind Cyprus. Or is it Cypress? Well, at least I can find it on a map. Beats most of my American neighbors.

Originally posted by Wesker
Certainly not questioning you there, but since when has "blindingly obvious" ever stopped most people?

It's also blindlingly obvious that smoking kills, but people still do it against their better judgment.

Yes, and if they didn't think that was possibly going to happen, that also makes them idiots.

My only point was that if you are in College, ignorance about how credit works is no defence.