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This was debated a while back between me and someone else. The fight takes place on the New York docks. (keep in mind the fact that they're fighting in an urban enviornment)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5807/venom8gs.jpg
Venom (Eddie Brock)
Former reporter
Class 40 or so strength
Retains Spider-Man's powers, including Spider-Sense, agility, reflexes, ability to adhere to walls, and such
Inventive with his tendrils
Experience on his side

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2862/toxincrouching4ma.th.jpg
Toxin (Pat Mulligan)
Former NYPD
Also retains Spider-Man's abilities, but has a more barbed webbing
Class 75 strength
Claws
Very good with shape-shifting

Who would win this battle?

Originally posted by Marcus4600
This was debated a while back between me and someone else. The fight takes place on the New York docks. (keep in mind the fact that they're fighting in an urban enviornment)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5807/venom8gs.jpg
Venom (Eddie Brock)
Former reporter
Class 40 or so strength
Retains Spider-Man's powers, including Spider-Sense, agility, reflexes, ability to adhere to walls, and such
Inventive with his tendrils
Experience on his side

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/2862/toxincrouching4ma.th.jpg
Toxin (Pat Mulligan)
Former NYPD
Also retains Spider-Man's abilities, but has a more barbed webbing
Class 75 strength
Claws
Very good with shape-shifting

Who would win this battle?

How did Venom get such a dramatic strength increase?

Originally posted by Sparkz
How did Venom get such a dramatic strength increase?

You call that dramatic? He is stronger than that, he proved it many times but i think that marvel directory wasn't updated for a long time.
Atleast Venom profile wasn't.

I'd say Venom's a class 40 or 50.

Hm. Tough call in my opinion. Venom supposedly is supposed to be the weakest of the symbiotes, because he is the first, yet he's somehow managed to beat most of the other symbiotes. I honestly think Venom would win this fight. Toxin is still considered young, and probably isn't quite as smart as Venom, and Venom is a bit of a tactician. I think as Toxin grows more he'll be able to beat Venom, but not quite yet.

Although I think Venom would come out of this fight hurting, I still think he'd win.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
I'd say Venom's a class 40 or 50.

Yeah, he's 50.

http://www.fanlistings.org/venom/bio.php

Originally posted by DraconaInVolata
Hm. Tough call in my opinion. Venom supposedly is supposed to be the weakest of the symbiotes, because he is the first, yet he's somehow managed to beat most of the other symbiotes. I honestly think Venom would win this fight. Toxin is still considered young, and probably isn't quite as smart as Venom, and Venom is a bit of a tactician. I think as Toxin grows more he'll be able to beat Venom, but not quite yet.

Although I think Venom would come out of this fight hurting, I still think he'd win.

Age is not always main factor in symbiot strength. Carnage is the good example. Look at him in Carnage unlished. He was young there.

Originally posted by samishe
Age is not always main factor in symbiot strength. Carnage is the good example. Look at him in Carnage unlished. He was young there.

Well the thing is, Venom can beat Carnage, because Venom is smarter, as I said, he is a tactician. I think that would come into play here because Toxin isn't as much of a tactician as Venom. At this point in time, Venom could take on Toxin and win. But as Toxin grows, he will probably get smarter. Personally, I'm a Toxin fan over Venom, but I still think Venom would win this fight.

Originally posted by DraconaInVolata
Well the thing is, Venom can beat Carnage, because Venom is smarter, as I said, he is a tactician. I think that would come into play here because Toxin isn't as much of a tactician as Venom. At this point in time, Venom could take on Toxin and win. But as Toxin grows, he will probably get smarter. Personally, I'm a Toxin fan over Venom, but I still think Venom would win this fight.

Yeah but Venom beats Carnage not because he is smarter, he simply outfights him.

Originally posted by samishe
Yeah but Venom beats Carnage not because he is smarter, he simply outfights him.

but he doesn't always simply outfight someone. they are in an urban area, they'll use eachothers weaknesses against each other, including using surroundings against each other.

Originally posted by samishe
Yeah but Venom beats Carnage not because he is smarter, he simply outfights him.

By no means true. Venom does fight him well, but there have been times that Carnage has ripped Venom a new one. In Carnage Unleashed, Venom got thrown into a car going 75+ miles an hour after a day of being thrashed around. Whenever he beats Carnage, he uses his enviornment to his advantage. That's strategy.

I'm sorry to argue with you guy's but some inaccuracies piss me off and Venoms strengh is a big one. Their is now way in hell that venom is class 50 , do you see him pull off any class fifty feats . No. I'll give him class thirty maybe even thirty five , but no higher.

Well, the big argument for him being class 50 is that he does most of his strength feats with ease. However, I lean more toward 40 than 50. However, it kinda depends on what day it is.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
By no means true. Venom does fight him well, but there have been times that Carnage has ripped Venom a new one. In Carnage Unleashed, Venom got thrown into a car going 75+ miles an hour after a day of being thrashed around. Whenever he beats Carnage, he uses his enviornment to his advantage. That's strategy.

Well in unlished Carnage simply pushed him into a car. Not a big deal, Spider-man could do that. In Maximum Carnage Venom was beating Carnage without using environment.

Meh , until i see him lift a plane (or something which at least weighs around fifty tons) i'm skeptical.

Originally posted by grey fox
Meh , until i see him lift a plane (or something which at least weighs around fifty tons) i'm skeptical.

Well Carnage is concidered class 50. I never seen him lifting anything heavier than helicopter. Even then he used not only his hands but also his tendrils.

Toxin takes him....Venom is cool, is just Toxin is stronger, but he is unexperienced, but Venom knows exactly what he can do, but still Toxin is stronger and he looks cooler too, sorry sam...

Originally posted by samishe
Well Carnage is concidered class 50. I never seen him lifting anything heavier than helicopter. Even then he used not only his hands but also his tendrils.

WTF

Marvel need to seriously upgrade their handbook system....

Originally posted by Rewmac
Toxin takes him....Venom is cool, is just Toxin is stronger, but he is unexperienced, but Venom knows exactly what he can do, but still Toxin is stronger and he looks cooler too, sorry sam...

Yeah he is stronger. Just like many other characters that Venom faced and beat. Strength isn't always main thing. Plus Venom is the original symbiot, so he is just... better.

And Toxin looks cooler? Don't think so. Venom has tangue and cool symbol.

Originally posted by samishe
Well Carnage is concidered class 50. I never seen him lifting anything heavier than helicopter. Even then he used not only his hands but also his tendrils.

their's nothing wrong with carnage using his tendrills, it mainly used as grip.

i think toxin would win, byt venom would put up a decent fight.

Originally posted by samishe
Yeah he is stronger. Just like many other characters that Venom faced and beat. Strength isn't always main thing. Plus Venom is the original symbiot, so he is just... better.

And Toxin looks cooler? Don't think so. Venom has tangue and cool symbol.

i agree with sam on this, that venom looks cooler, nothin beats black

Originally posted by samishe
Yeah he is stronger. Just like many other characters that Venom faced and beat. Strength isn't always main thing. Plus Venom is the original symbiot, so he is just... better.

And Toxin looks cooler? Don't think so. Venom has tangue and cool symbol.

I never liked he tounge to be honest but the symbol is ossum, but his strength is v inconsistant, when he fights spider-man he seems only able to lift 11 tons any other time he seems a class 50, its either to make spider-man look better, or people just don't pay attention.

Well iv just checked in the ultimate spider-man guide and it says brock could lift 700 pounds before he was bonded with the symbiote but it was amped up 40 times when they merged which is roughly 35 tons i think so I stand corrected, although it does get rid of the theory that the only reason Venom is stronger than spider-man is because Eddie brock is stronger than peter parker, (if parker hadnt been bit by the spider) which i always preferd but hey...still dnt think venom should be able to beat the juggernaught though :s

Originally posted by Sparkz
Well iv just checked in the ultimate spider-man guide and it says brock could lift 700 pounds before he was bonded with the symbiote but it was amped up 40 times when they merged which is roughly 35 tons i think so I stand corrected, although it does get rid of the theory that the only reason Venom is stronger than spider-man is because Eddie brock is stronger than peter parker, (if parker hadnt been bit by the spider) which i always preferd but hey...still dnt think venom should be able to beat the juggernaught though :s

im pretty sure that i read that in a spiderman 616 hand book a while back too, brock did lift 700 lbs without the symbiote, with it his power became 40 times greather.

venom is stonger than spiderman tho, because he bonded well with the symbiote.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Well iv just checked in the ultimate spider-man guide and it says brock could lift 700 pounds before he was bonded with the symbiote but it was amped up 40 times when they merged which is roughly 35 tons i think so I stand corrected, although it does get rid of the theory that the only reason Venom is stronger than spider-man is because Eddie brock is stronger than peter parker, (if parker hadnt been bit by the spider) which i always preferd but hey...still dnt think venom should be able to beat the juggernaught though :s

He never really defeated Juggernaut, Juggs only ran away.
That issue was a good example of how durable Venom is. Spidey would've been dead after one(two) punch in the head from Juggernaut.

Originally posted by spideycarnage

im pretty sure that i read that in a spiderman 616 hand book a while back too, brock did lift 700 lbs without the symbiote, with it his power became 40 times greather.

venom is stonger than spiderman tho, because he bonded well with the symbiote.

Yeah I know that but there was a theory that the symbiote didnt augment the powers they were the same as spideys but brocks superior strength gave him the strength advantage which I preferd because it not only gave them room to get stronger by working out it gave brock alot of credit.

Originally posted by samishe
He never really defeated Juggernaut, Juggs only ran away.
That issue was a good example of how durable Venom is. Spidey would've been dead after one(two) punch in the head from Juggernaut.

I think spidey would be dead after 1 punch from the juggernaught

Originally posted by Sparkz
Yeah I know that but there was a theory that the symbiote didnt augment the powers they were the same as spideys but brocks superior strength gave him the strength advantage which I preferd because it not only gave them room to get stronger by working out it gave brock alot of credit.

I don't understand that theory.
When Spider bonded with symbiot he was capable of lifting 10 tonnes, brock only 700lb. So how the hell it happened that Brock became stronger than Spider? It seems to me that symbiot and Brock were just better couple than symbiot and spider. Thats why Venom is stronger.

Originally posted by samishe
I don't understand that theory.
When Spider bonded with symbiot he was capable of lifting 10 tonnes, brock only 700lb. So how the hell it happened that Brock became stronger than Spider? It seems to me that symbiot and Brock were just better couple than symbiot and spider. Thats why Venom is stronger.
It was basicly Spider-mans strength (the symbiote) plus brocks strength the 700 pounds which made him stronger. So the 700 pounds was the amount of power that made him stronger, which also made it more belivable why he could over power spidey but also spidey had a slight affect on him when fighting him.

It kinda runs on the Ben Grimm principle. Ben gets stronger the more he lifts. He can still gain muscle. It works the same way with Eddie Brock and the symbiote. That's also why Angelo Fortunado and Mac Gargan are significantly weaker with the Venom symbiote.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
It kinda runs on the Ben Grimm principle. Ben gets stronger the more he lifts. He can still gain muscle. It works the same way with Eddie Brock and the symbiote. That's also why Angelo Fortunado and Mac Gargan are significantly weaker with the Venom symbiote.

would of thought scorpion would be pretty damn strong in the suit tho i mean its a class 35 combined with a what class 15 or 20 but for some reason hes weaker than the orignal venom

Originally posted by samishe
He never really defeated Juggernaut, Juggs only ran away.
That issue was a good example of how durable Venom is. Spidey would've been dead after one(two) punch in the head from Juggernaut.

Now you say it.....oy.

Originally posted by samishe
Well in unlished Carnage simply pushed him into a car. Not a big deal, Spider-man could do that. In Maximum Carnage Venom was beating Carnage without using environment.

The ONLY time venom woops carnage's ass in max carnage is near the end when carnage has already gotten his brain f*cked up by the mind scrambler thing.

in fact, the ONLY time i've ever seen venom outfight carnage at all was in venom vs carnage issue 2, all the other times, he had to resort to environment, etc, and even then, most of the time he ended up just as near death (blowing himself up, etc).

well the more corrupt u become the better the suit bonds with you, that is why eddie has done so well with the symbiote- his strength/rage/need for revenge makes him stronger. spidy did not have the rage part, or the need for revenge.

Originally posted by VENOMS_SPAWN
well the more corrupt u become the better the suit bonds with you, that is why eddie has done so well with the symbiote- his strength/rage/need for revenge makes him stronger. spidy did not have the rage part, or the need for revenge.

Thats bull the writers make up , the suit worked better for Punisher and he isn't 'corrupt'.

Originally posted by grey fox
Now you say it.....oy.

Read carefully, i never said Venom physically outfought Juggernaut.

Originally posted by samishe
Read carefully, i never said Venom physically outfought Juggernaut.

No in our 28 page Hulk and Juggernaut versus Venom Carnage and Toxin

Originally posted by samishe
He never really defeated Juggernaut, Juggs only ran away.
That issue was a good example of how durable Venom is. Spidey would've been dead after one(two) punch in the head from Juggernaut.

True but he's quicker. Juggs would never land a solid blow.

And didn't this happen in Toxin's debut? I seem to remember him punking both Venom and Carnage at the same time.

Did anyone actuly like Toxins debut I still have ahrd enough time beliveing venom and carnage would work together, not to mention the artwork was terrible I couldnt stand that artwork, and the story was very borin and drole, but hey at least...wow I think thats the first comic Iv read that I realy couldnt stand lol

Originally posted by Sparkz
Did anyone actuly like Toxins debut I still have ahrd enough time beliveing venom and carnage would work together, not to mention the artwork was terrible I couldnt stand that artwork, and the story was very borin and drole, but hey at least...wow I think thats the first comic Iv read that I realy couldnt stand lol

are you kidding? i loved the artwork. yes, the humans could have used a little more work, but as for the symbiotes, they were done beautifully! and i do think venom and carnage would work together. at this point, venom is much more controlled by the symbiote itself, rather than brock, and carnage is always lookin out for himself more than anything, so if a threat emerged they neither could take on one on one, venom would partner up for survival's sake beause of his the symbiote's instinct, and carnage would partner up for fear of death, AND that this is HIS son, so he has the burning hatred for it that venom has for him

Toxin is way stronger than him, and beat Carnage easily.

Btw, 700 lbs x 40 = 28000 lbs = 14 tons. Just pointing that out, since that's WAY off of 35 tons.

To address the Gargan issue, here's why he isn't stronger. His suit was what amplified his strength. He doesn't have it now, thus him having the Venom symbiote. However, I think that he may have been separated from it after he was arrested and put in prison, which is what I think happened to Kassidy.

Originally posted by Kontraz
are you kidding? i loved the artwork. yes, the humans could have used a little more work, but as for the symbiotes, they were done beautifully! and i do think venom and carnage would work together. at this point, venom is much more controlled by the symbiote itself, rather than brock, and carnage is always lookin out for himself more than anything, so if a threat emerged they neither could take on one on one, venom would partner up for survival's sake beause of his the symbiote's instinct, and carnage would partner up for fear of death, AND that this is HIS son, so he has the burning hatred for it that venom has for him

Fair enough I suppose but I still hated the artwork, on some panels I actuly had to stare at what was happening cause it looked realy weird, especialy human expressions now those were terrible.

Originally posted by The Fake Macoy
Btw, 700 lbs x 40 = 28000 lbs = 14 tons. Just pointing that out, since that's WAY off of 35 tons.

Realy I thought 1000 lbs = 1 Ton so he is closer to the strength level I thought.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
To address the Gargan issue, here's why he isn't stronger. His suit was what amplified his strength. He doesn't have it now, thus him having the Venom symbiote. However, I think that he may have been separated from it after he was arrested and put in prison, which is what I think happened to Kassidy.

Yeah but gargan still had super strength without his suit.

Originally posted by grey fox
No in our 28 page Hulk and Juggernaut versus Venom Carnage and Toxin

mmmm... no i haven't.

Making Juggernaut run and making him fall with punches and physically hurting him are two different things.

Originally posted by Kontraz
The ONLY time venom woops carnage's ass in max carnage is near the end when carnage has already gotten his brain f*cked up by the mind scrambler thing.

in fact, the ONLY time i've ever seen venom outfight carnage at all was in venom vs carnage issue 2, all the other times, he had to resort to environment, etc, and even then, most of the time he ended up just as near death (blowing himself up, etc).


Not true. His brains were damaded but it didn't effected his strength and speed and Venom was barely standing when Carnage appeared so don't bring that damaged brains argument. the fight was still fair.

And that was NOT the only time Venom kicked his a$$. Check Venom on trial part 3.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Yeah but gargan still had super strength without his suit.

I dont think so.....

Originally posted by grey fox
I dont think so.....

Then what did he go under all that radiation treatment for? why not just get straight into the suit?

Originally posted by Sparkz
Yeah but gargan still had super strength without his suit. no

can any one post scans of toxin fighting

Originally posted by Marcus4600
no

Has it ever been stated he needed the suit for his strength, whenever he brags about his suit its always about the tail never his strength

Ok here we are I'll probaly scan it later but in the first appearance of the scorpion Dr Stillwell stated "He's reacting perfectly!see how his strength has increased and his coordination already is superhuman"

And that was before he was even in te suit and Gargan even states again before in the suit "I feel like a living dynamo I've become all muscle I can lick anybody"

That all seems like he has super strngth now don't it.

He's never been strong at all without his strength. Anyway, I need to put some scans up of Toxin fights.
Vs. King Cobra
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5028/toxin1143nf.th.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/4066/toxin1156fc.th.jpg
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/91/toxin1164qu.th.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/715/toxin1179ly.th.jpg

1st fight with Razor Fist
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6926/toxin3034tr.th.jpg
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/226/toxin3047xp.th.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7277/toxin3052ul.th.jpg
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/754/toxin3065oh.th.jpg

Fighting the Wrecking Crew (These guys have given Thor trouble)
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6915/toxin4170hb.th.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8527/toxin4186hr.th.jpg
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6131/toxin4192yg.th.jpg
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/7796/toxin4201mk.th.jpg

Second fight with Razor fist. This is a fighting ability feat by far, considering Razor Fist can be a good threat to Iron Fist.
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1940/toxin6174ra.th.jpg
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1063/toxin6181qa.th.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2193/toxin6198vk.th.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8706/toxin6201lj.th.jpg

Toxin's series was honestly one of the best I had ever read. However, not many people noticed it, considering it was published during House of M. However, I think it occurs beforehand.

Thanks for the scans Marcus. The artwork in those are just terrible though. I think Toxin has a lot of potential but his character look just needs some work. I do like all his powers as well.

As far as Venom vs Toxin at this point I would side with Venom only because Toxin lacks the experiance. Once he learns the ropes I think He would be to much for Carnage and Venom to handle.

By the way, has there been anything mentioned on how weak he is to fire and sonics yet?

Nope. Not yet. He hasn't encountered them yet. However, I do think that he may have more of a resistance. Unfortunately, as long as Bendis and Millar have a big influence in Marvel, we won't see much of Toxin.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
Nope. Not yet. He hasn't encountered them yet. However, I do think that he may have more of a resistance. Unfortunately, as long as Bendis and Millar have a big influence in Marvel, we won't see much of Toxin.
Well he probaly will because carnage developed a resistance to sonics but was very weak to fire, maybe Toxin has a high reisistance to both sonics and fire, I never realy have liked the wekness to fire, it always seemed daft that you could hit symbiotes with a truck and theyd be fine but a lighter and they'd loose lol (well ok not tht extreme but still) sonics is a much better weakness.

Toxin is a class 65 is he not? I also read somewhere that he has a very fast healing ability

Originally posted by Golvan
Toxin is a class 65 is he not? I also read somewhere that he has a very fast healing ability

I think he's class 75, aint heard anything about his healing though

He's 75. Also, if you look at the Razor Fist fights, you'll see that he heals almost instantaneoulsy. He's got a healing factor similar to Deadpools.

All symbiots have very good healing factor. It takes them only couple of minutes to recover.

well considering it took spiderman venom and carnage to beat toxin

Toxin>Venom
i love venom but, hey he can't win this fight

Originally posted by Redatom65
well considering it took spiderman venom and carnage to beat toxin

Toxin>Venom
i love venom but, hey he can't win this fight

It took Carnage, Venom and Spider-man to beat Toxin?!

Spider was on the same side with Toxin. And there was Black Cat either. Three against Venom and Carnage.

w/e i'm not a toxin reader my friend said this happened

Toxin still eats Venom anyways

You can't say anything for sure untill they fight one on one.

Originally posted by samishe
You can't say anything for sure untill they fight one on one.

toxin EASILY wooped carnage's ass in the series, and venom and carnage were about even throughout their fights in the series. and now that toxin has more control over himself, i'd bet he'd woop venom's ass even worse. sorry, toxin is just like venom, only better in everyway, except maybe in fighting exp, but it doesnt make enough difference to save venom

Originally posted by Kontraz
toxin EASILY wooped carnage's ass in the series, and venom and carnage were about even throughout their fights in the series. and now that toxin has more control over himself, i'd bet he'd woop venom's ass even worse. sorry, toxin is just like venom, only better in everyway, except maybe in fighting exp, but it doesnt make enough difference to save venom

It not always works like this. Toxin beat Carnage, Carnage could beat Venom, so Toxin could beat Venom? Not a fact.
What do you mean control. Symbiots don't need experience or control to be in their top power. Look at Carnage in savage alliance. He looked stronger there than he look in his later appearances.

in venom the madness this should have happened to venom

thats true, but as long as someone is resisting their "other" (as toxin was throughout venom vs carnage) they will not be at their full power. Even eddie admits that only when he fully gave into the symbiote was venom at his strongest (planet of the symbiotes). and its not the fact that toxin beat carnage... its how EASILY toxin beat carnage when carnage and venom were on par with each other throughout the series. and givin the fact that their powers are very similar, toxin would most likely beat venom just as easily, if not easier now that he has better control.

Originally posted by Kontraz
toxin EASILY wooped carnage's ass in the series, and venom and carnage were about even throughout their fights in the series. and now that toxin has more control over himself, i'd bet he'd woop venom's ass even worse. sorry, toxin is just like venom, only better in everyway, except maybe in fighting exp, but it doesnt make enough difference to save venom
Carnage wasn't at his peak though considering that he HAD just given birth...

Originally posted by Next Venom_girl
Carnage wasn't at his peak though considering that he HAD just given birth...

symbiotes can recover to full health in a manner of seconds (minutes if close to death), and this is at least a day later... carnage was back up to normal...

Originally posted by Kontraz
thats true, but as long as someone is resisting their "other" (as toxin was throughout venom vs carnage) they will not be at their full power. Even eddie admits that only when he fully gave into the symbiote was venom at his strongest (planet of the symbiotes). and its not the fact that toxin beat carnage... its how EASILY toxin beat carnage when carnage and venom were on par with each other throughout the series. and givin the fact that their powers are very similar, toxin would most likely beat venom just as easily, if not easier now that he has better control.

Carnage was kinda weakend after he gave birth to spawn.

read what i already said about that

Originally posted by Kontraz
read what i already said about that

About weakend Carnage? What?

Originally posted by Kontraz
symbiotes can recover to full health in a manner of seconds (minutes if close to death), and this is at least a day later... carnage was back up to normal...

that

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
in venom the madness this should have happened to venom

There is nothing wrong with vENOM knocking down Juggs, it happense to him very often

there is nothing wrong with that but juggernaut hit captain britain and he flyed back a mile and that should have happen to venom as well

can we get back on topic...?

I've always thought that Carnage was in a whole other class than Venom, judging from his first appearance when he tossed Spidey and Venom around like they were nothing. But in recent years this has changed and now Venom is the top dog. Taking blows from both Juggernaut and Superman, I mean, c'mon. That whole Access story when Venom fought Superman must be the worst garbage I've read.

I wanted to point out that Spider-man defeated Toxin in his 6 issue story. Although it was literary TOXIN he fought (Pat Mullins, the host, was sedated) I don't know how much Pat could have contributed. Sure, he's a cop and he has close combat training, but he's inexperienced at the whole meta human fighting thingamajiggy.
Toxin/Pat's fighting style resemble that of Carnage, using brute force and speed to overwhelm. I can't remember seeing Carnage pulling of any impressive moves, he just does his thing utilizing his strength and symbiotic weaponry. Venom has more grace, and as earlier pointed out he's strategic.

Due to Toxin/Pat's inexperience and the fact that Spidey beat Toxin I see a chance for old Venom to at least land some sucker punches. Venom's fighting style resembles Spidey's and Toxin has yet to prove himself in my opinion.

The funny thing about when Spidey beat Toxin was that he used his webbing to ensnare him. Since when does it hold class 75 characters? It wasn't a very thick layer either.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
there is nothing wrong with that but juggernaut hit captain britain and he flyed back a mile and that should have happen to venom as well

I guarantee that Venom could knock Captain Britain into obscurity as well. As for Carnage, when he fought Toxin, he was at full health. After he had given birth, he had felt drunk and tired. He was fine by the time that he killed that artist, and then when Pat had handed him his ass. However, this thread is not about Carnage. It's about Venom vs Toxin. Back on topic.

did not toxin beat both the symbiots at once?

Originally posted by Mider
did not toxin beat both the symbiots at once?

No, he lost, he fought them but lost badly. He did fight Carnage three times and won all three, but not both.

meh well thats a feat in itself in maximum carnage, it was said carnage was stronger then any of the team members not combined but one on one yeah he could take them and venom was one of them

Toxin wins.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
there is nothing wrong with that but juggernaut hit captain britain and he flyed back a mile and that should have happen to venom as well

Even if Venom flew a mile away doesn't mean he would've been killed, he could take such punch just like all other punches in in madness.

Originally posted by Mider
meh well thats a feat in itself in maximum carnage, it was said carnage was stronger then any of the team members not combined but one on one yeah he could take them and venom was one of them

It was said that he is srtonger than any member of his team(doppelganger, shriek, demogoblin and carion), not of spider team.

offtopic

Originally posted by Marcus4600
offtopic

Ok, then my opinion is that Toxin has a little strenght advantage(i said little because Venom before "dieing" had an upgrade), but it's hard to judge untill they fought one on one. Venom could win as well as Toxin.

venom wins

Originally posted by VENOMS_SPAWN
venom wins

VS, on these threads, you need to back your claims. Got any proof that Venom can win? (For those who don't know, I'm indifferent on the subject)

VS, on these threads, you need to back your claims. Got any proof that Venom can win? (For those who don't know, I'm indifferent on the subject)

venom just has fought too many stronger foes....
he just has too much experience, and could find the weakness he needs to win.

Originally posted by samishe
Ok, then my opinion is that Toxin has a little strenght advantage(i said little because Venom before "dieing" had an upgrade), but it's hard to judge untill they fought one on one. Venom could win as well as Toxin.

umm... what upgrades did venom get after the Venom vs Carnage arc? because WHILE that was going on, the deal with venom in MK spider-man was also going on. and 2 months after venom vs carnage ended... so did eddie...

Venom vs Carnage storyline happened before Venom on trial.

No it didn't. Venom vs Carnage was two years ago. There are four arcs between Venom on Trial and Venom vs Carnage.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
No it didn't. Venom vs Carnage was two years ago. There are four arcs between Venom on Trial and Venom vs Carnage.

In Venom vs Carnage Black Cat didn't even knew who Venom and Carnage are.

Meh. It was only one line from the whole thing. The rest of the story flowed well. Some writers forget those details, others just don't study up at all.

Originally posted by samishe
In Venom vs Carnage Black Cat didn't even knew who Venom and Carnage are.
yeah it was weird I wouldnt forget someone who beat the crap out of me and I teamed up with to fight one of the greatest villains ever

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Meh. It was only one line from the whole thing. The rest of the story flowed well. Some writers forget those details, others just don't study up at all.

May be those Toxin comix aren't canon at all?

Originally posted by FG725
yeah it was weird I wouldnt forget someone who beat the crap out of me and I teamed up with to fight one of the greatest villains ever

LOL yeah.

Originally posted by samishe
May be those Toxin comix aren't canon at all?

They are. I like Toxin, personally. He's got a lot more flavor to him than Hybrid did. They played Hybrid off as the stereotypical black man in a rough neighborhood, and then he flopped.

Toxin.

There is one more reason why i don't like Venom vs Carnage comix. Venom and Carnage worked as a team. That's already impossible for them.

Originally posted by samishe
There is one more reason why i don't like Venom vs Carnage comix. Venom and Carnage worked as a team. That's already impossible for them.
yeah they could never team up I mean and if they did it would end up one betraying the other at some point. Or if they did get along they woulve lasted more than 7 panels

^True.

Venom may come out on top since he has more experience

I think that at the moment, Toxin is still a young symbiote and Venom has the edge in experience. But strength wise, Venom doesn't have a chance.

I think Toxin will take this because a symbiote is at it's best when it's young.

Venom could take him, even in straight fight. Who cares that Toxin could lift more weight.