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Dr Strange is Sorceror Supreme. Can to powerful magic user defeat him?

Dr Strange- http://spider-bob.com/heroes/marvel/DrStrangeII.htm

vs

Shaman/Talisman- http://spider-bob.com/heroes/marvel/Shaman.htm

Bump!!!!

Dr Strnge has this one in the bag

Shaman and Talisman are clowns compared to Strange.

Dr. Strange 9/10.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Shaman and Talisman are clowns compared to Strange.

Dr. Strange 9/10. Anyone besides Fate, who dare do sorcery is a clown compared to strange

And with his items

You guys have obviously no idea who Talisman actually is.

hmmm

King Mungi, what can Talisman do that Strange won't counter with ease?

Anything, she wants..."Talisman is capable of manipulating and using all magic. She can do so by re-directing that magic or absorbing it or using it to cast spells. She is capable of controlling spirits.She can also levitate and has some prophetic abilities ". So basically what Dr.Strange throws at her, she can send back

In an interview found in Marvel Age #2 , this is what John Byrne said about Shaman: "If you want to sum it up . . . he's Doctor Strange--but he does it with potions and herbs and little dolls and stuff, instead of just doing it with the power of his mind, the way Strange does. This possibly gives Shaman a slight advantage, I don't know. If he had the tools at hand, he can make just about anything. I don't know if Strange has that kind of power over the physical world."
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Originally posted by King_Mungi
Nope as stated, she is Dr.Strange level she is the choosen one to battle against all evils. She is a channel so the Gods can fight and the Native American's messiah. Also nope again, the Talisman she wears grants her an unlimited knowledge

These are two scans when she just first became Talisman.
1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight24-27.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight19-09.jpg

Absorbing trillions of artifacts and spells:
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_090_12.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_090_15.jpg
3. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_090_16.jpg

Snowbird bowing before Talisman, she's a goddess. The Talisman even has the power to control the Great Beasts.
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/Legerd/Talisman2.jpg

What the Talisman is:
1. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/AlphaFlight72-20.jpg

Talisman bio:
1. http://www.alphaflight.net/character_overviews/talisman/
"Super Powers: Talisman is capable of manipulating and using all magic. She can do so by re-directing that magic or absorbing it or using it to cast spells. She is capable of controlling spirits.She can also levitate and has some prophetic abilities"

2. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5525/liz.html
" Elizabeth Twoyoungmen has been described as a living mystical talisman, whose might may rival that of Stephen Strange, the Sorcerer Supreme. Although her abilities are only fully realized while she wears her mystic coronet, even without it she is capable of controlling and redirecting magical energy that is used against her. With the coronet, she is capable of far more.
Principle among the expanded powers is the ability to tap into Earth's available mystic energy. This enables Liz to create an infinite variety of spells. The possible feats she can accomplish are limited only by her imagination and experience.
As the Binder of Spirits, Liz has other abilities. Her people's traditions claim that spirits inhabit all things on Earth. This gives her a vast array of allies to call upon at any given time. Liz's control over the spirits is absolute; this is in contrast with her father. Michael Twoyoungmen has earned only the right to implore the spirits for help; he cannot force them to aid him."

that's all good, but Strange uses far more powerful magic. he is able to against the likes of Dormmamu..and infinity gems. Talisman is not a threat.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
that's all good, but Strange uses far more powerful magic. he is able to against the likes of Dormmamu..and infinity gems. Talisman is not a threat.

How so? She can command the spirit of death and instantly kill Strange if she wants to. She is the avatar for Gods, their choosen one in which the Gods fight the evil ones. When Dr.Strange and Talisman fought together against Llan it showed they were equal in power.

Here's a list of spells Shaman has been shown to do:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman_%28comics%29

IMO, Shaman and Talisman together take Strange.

Indeed, Talisman alone can give Strange a run for his money together with Shaman they take the majority.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
How so? She can command the spirit of death and instantly kill Strange if she wants to. She is the avatar for Gods, their choosen one in which the Gods fight the evil ones. When Dr.Strange and Talisman fought together against Llan it showed they were equal in power.

That's just a spirit alligned with death. The real abstract cannot be summoned by Talisman and Death has already faced Strange twice. Any lower would be fair game to strange. And Dr. Strange could also steal their magical energies akin to what he did to Shoma's lieutenant.

I think Strange can most definitely take shaman one on one and i also think he might fare better against talisman in the same dept however, i'm quite unsure on Strange's standing against a double team with Talisman.

I'll say strange wins

Many of the beings from whom Strange draws power, including the Vishanti, are incapapble of manifesting on this plane because they would destroy it. That trumps the gods of any pantheon in the MU.

Besides, Strange would just use the bad blood between Talisman and Shaman to weaken them. Magic isn't just about spells and such. The strength of the mind is just as important, and Strange has this in spades.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
That's just a spirit alligned with death. The real abstract cannot be summoned by Talisman and Death has already faced Strange twice. Any lower would be fair game to strange. And Dr. Strange could also steal their magical energies akin to what he did to Shoma's lieutenant.

I think Strange can most definitely take shaman one on one and i also think he might fare better against talisman in the same dept however, i'm quite unsure on Strange's standing against a double team with Talisman.

Don't know for sure, a being that is a spirit can be commanded by Talisman. Shaman can call for their aid, but Talisman actually controls and commands them. Talisman can steal magic as well, and use Strange's own magic against him. That's the power of Talisman she manipulates the worlds magic, the more magic there is the stronger she becomes.

Yeah one on one he can take Shaman, but he is far from being a light-weight. Talisman's power rivals that of Dr.Strange and has the potential to even be stronger. The Talisman before Shaman's daughter single handly took down Llan...a being that even made Strange crap his pants.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Many of the beings from whom Strange draws power, including the Vishanti, are incapapble of manifesting on this plane because they would destroy it. That trumps the gods of any pantheon in the MU.

Besides, Strange would just use the bad blood between Talisman and Shaman to weaken them. Magic isn't just about spells and such. The strength of the mind is just as important, and Strange has this in spades.

So?...we have no idea what gods she is their avatar for.

Old news they don't have the bad blood anymore after her brief time where she gave up the Talisman power to her father and then later regained it. Once again, you guys don't know much about Talisman, her knowledge is infinite and it feeds her information what she needs to accomplish a goal.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Don't know for sure, a being that is a spirit can be commanded by Talisman. Shaman can call for their aid, but Talisman actually controls and commands them. Talisman can steal magic as well, and use Strange's own magic against him. That's the power of Talisman she manipulates the worlds magic, the more magic there is the stronger she becomes.

Yeah one on one he can take Shaman, but he is far from being a light-weight. Talisman's power rivals that of Dr.Strange and has the potential to even be stronger. The Talisman before Shaman's daughter single handly took down Llan...a being that even made Strange crap his pants.



So?...we have no idea what gods she is their avatar for.

Old news they don't have the bad blood anymore after her brief time where she gave up the Talisman power to her father and then later regained it. Once again, you guys don't know much about Talisman, her knowledge is infinite and it feeds her information what she needs to accomplish a goal.
Why is it that whenever someone disagrees with someone on this board, they don't know anything about a character?

It's interesting that you mention Talisman can manipulate this world's magic, but the vast majority of the magic Strange uses is extra-dimensional. The fact that the previous beat someone that would make "Strange crap his pants" is immaterial, especially since it wasn't HER. Most of Strange's foes make him crap his pants. And her ability to absorb magic is irrelevant as well. Strange defeated the Inbetweener when none of his magic would work on him.

Strange would find a way. He always does. As I said, it's not always about power, it's about mental acumen and ability, and Strange has these in spades.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
vast majority of the magic Strange uses is extra-dimensional.

precisely. we're talking about someone who has taken Mephisto and Satannish at the same time, both of which are beyond Talisman & Shaman.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Why is it that whenever someone disagrees with someone on this board, they don't know anything about a character?

It's interesting that you mention Talisman can manipulate this world's magic, but the vast majority of the magic Strange uses is extra-dimensional. The fact that the previous beat someone that would make "Strange crap his pants" is immaterial, especially since it wasn't HER. Most of Strange's foes make him crap his pants. And her ability to absorb magic is irrelevant as well. Strange defeated the Inbetweener when none of his magic would work on him.

Strange would find a way. He always does. As I said, it's not always about power, it's about mental acumen and ability, and Strange has these in spades.

Seriously have you read Alpha Flight? Most of the characters who appear in the entire series no one has ever.

No, she manipulates extra-dimensional magic as well, such as Llan, Great Beasts, battling and beating Dreamqueen . She is not pidgeon holded on just Earth magic, but all magic. No, currently at this time it was stated she was equal to power in Strange and has the potential to be stronger, he doesn't dwarf her in power. How is it irrelevant where Strange's strength magic is Talisman's main power and she can manipulate it.

Once again no, Talisman has an unlimited supply of knowledge due to the gods feed her the infromation. I really need to post Talisman feats.


Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
precisely. we're talking about someone who has taken Mephisto and Satannish at the same time, both of which are beyond Talisman & Shaman.

Except Talisman alone has taken on Llan who could have easily killed Strange twice. When the recent Talisman got her powers, both her and Strange fought together and were stated to be equal in power.

Shaman has beaten Carcass, a disciple of Khoas they are not lightweights.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Seriously have you read Alpha Flight? Most of the characters who appear in the entire series no one has ever.

No, she manipulates extra-dimensional magic as well, such as Llan, Great Beasts, battling and beating Dreamqueen . She is not pidgeon holded on just Earth magic, but all magic. No, currently at this time it was stated she was equal to power in Strange and has the potential to be stronger, he doesn't dwarf her in power. How is it irrelevant where Strange's strength magic is Talisman's main power and she can manipulate it.

Once again no, Talisman has an unlimited supply of knowledge due to the gods feed her the infromation. I really need to post Talisman feats.




Except Talisman alone has taken on Llan who could have easily killed Strange twice. When the recent Talisman got her powers, both her and Strange fought together and were stated to be equal in power.

Shaman has beaten Carcass, a disciple of Khoas they are not lightweights.
And Strange has bested Dormammu, Umar, Urthona, Mephisto, In-Betweener, he's challenged Eternity on several occasions etc, etc. What you don't seem to understand is that it's not simply a matter of power or knowing spells. It's how you use what you have. Strange almost always finds himself opposing opponents GREATER than he. The only time one can say that he was truly defeated was when Dormammu combined his past and future selves and killed Strange. Other than that, he always out thinks his opponents because most figure that since he's mortal and has less power than they, it will be easy to destroy him. That has proven the undoing of many an opponent of Dr. Strange.

Yes I know that, and she knows what she has plus the Talisman of power is her guide to the right path and helps her to use the right spells at the right time. Also she went one on one with Llan even though she knew at that time she was outclassed. Then her and Strange teamed up and opened the Gateway of Day to beat him. I'm just posting Talisman feats in the AF respect thread right now, I will have the Llan battle up shortly.

This is Llan The Sorcerer if you didn't know: *just scroll down*
1. http://www.unfluffybunny.com/cripp12/KtoL.htm

Maybe if Talisman dances for Dr Strange you know that special kind of dance..................she can distract him and Shaman can pull a rabbit out of his bag

Originally posted by soleran30
Maybe if Talisman dances for Dr Strange you know that special kind of dance..................she can distract him and Shaman can pull a rabbit out of his bag

Which oddly is possible...hmm....

I am just looking at the possible solutions rather then the problems

I didn't have the nerve to read the whole thread, so forgive if i should repeating something already said.

As far as i know, Talisman is an avatar for the gods to battle all evil threatening this realm. She is said to be Strange's equal and also serves a comparable cause. If you add to it Shaman, who is just slightly below Strange, you have a team up that can certainly beat the Doc more often than not.
The only thing that speaks against Talisman & Shaman winning, is Strange's higher popularity and his superior "screen-time", but that should not be an issue in this forum.

Kyllian was an avatar for gods as well. As I've said before, power doesn't equate a win, especially when it comes to magic. Probably 98% of the time Strange faces opponents stronger than him. He was able to overcome The Ancient One in his prime by intellect, not by power. Same with Dormammu, Umar, Urthona, Salome,etc. It's the same reason that Nate Grey got his butt handed to him in his own series by other characters, including Dark Beast. Nate had more power than virtually everyone else, but he was a child that didn't know the best way to use what he had, or how to really identify weaknesses in his other opponents.

I could list opponent after opponent that Strange defeated that was more powerful than him. It means little. Screen time has nothing to do with it. It's about using what you have to the best of your ability. It's about knowing your opponent and locking on to their weakness. Salome had the support of the Vishanti, and Strange had renounced ALL extradimensional magic (Watoomg, Cytorrak, Seraphim, etc), and he STILL defeated her. He probably wasn't too more powerful than he was when he was an apprentice (even then he could use the AOA), and he still came out on top.

Power does not equal a guaranteed victory.

You certainly have a point, and if it would be just Strange versus Talisman (equal power, different experience level) i would give this to the Doc, clearly. But this is Talisman and Shaman versus Strange, and Shaman, though not as powerful, is equally experienced and wise, so when father and daughter combine their power and wits, not to speak of the moral boost given by the need to help each other, i say they will more often than not win this fight.

Neither of them is as experienced as Strange. He's already got 5,000 years on them.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Neither of them is as experienced as Strange. He's already got 5,000 years on them.

Actually Talisman has over 5,000 years of experience. Actually over 30,000 years due to the she can relieve the past experiences of the previous Talisman's. I will get to your big post later, but I have started to post Talisman stuff in the AF respect thread.

But King Mungi, you have failed to explain how they are they going to overcome Dr. Strange's advantage of being American? We all know that automatically makes him 2 or 3 times as powerful as them by default.

Originally posted by TheKahn
But King Mungi, you have failed to explain how they are they going to overcome Dr. Strange's advantage of being American? We all know that automatically makes him 2 or 3 times as powerful as them by default.

You give me a bad case of cramps

Originally posted by King_Mungi
You give me a bad case of cramps


eer
Well then, I'm sorry I guess. Hope that clears up for you

Originally posted by TheKahn
eer
Well then, I'm sorry I guess.


yucky

Should be, Canadians with cramps are very cranky

Remember all of his accessories
Book of Vishanti: Ancient text containing every defensive spell known to the mystic arts. The book itself also serves as a mystic shield.
Cloak of Levitation: Mystic cloak mentally controlled to use for flight without physical exertion.

Crystal of Agamotto: Orb capable of detecting mystic forces within multiple dimensions.

Eye of Agamotto: Amulet created by the entity known as Eternity; allowing the possessor to dispel creations of black magic, see through illusions, invoke images of the immediate past, read and control minds; and track corporeal and ethereal beings by their psychic or magical emissions.

Orb of Agamotto: The Eye of Agamotto detached from its backing and enlarged, allowing the possessor to see and travel to other dimensions and times.

Serum of the Seraphim: Powerful all-purpose elixir capable of curing both mystic and non-mystic ailments.

Tome of Oshtur: Book of long-lost spells written by the omnipotent Oshtur.

Unnamed ring capable of enabling an ectoplasmic form to cast mystic spells.

Wide array or arcane texts, artifacts, books and relics

That's all fine and dandy, but in an interview found in Marvel Age #2 , this is what John Byrne said about Shaman: "If you want to sum it up . . . he's Doctor Strange--but he does it with potions and herbs and little dolls and stuff, instead of just doing it with the power of his mind, the way Strange does. This possibly gives Shaman a slight advantage, I don't know. If he had the tools at hand, he can make just about anything. I don't know if Strange has that kind of power over the physical world."

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Should be, Canadians with cramps are very cranky

Or just in general...

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6008/dalepurinton1nh.th.jpg


And just to be on topic, I think its just about a draw. Everyone involved could be considered walking PIS generators. They could all do just about anything they wanted being that they are such high level magic users so its nearly impossible to say who would win.

Originally posted by TheKahn
And just to be on topic, I think its just about a draw. Everyone involved could be considered walking PIS generators. They could all do just about anything they wanted being that they are such high level magic users so its nearly impossible to say who would win.

I agree with that, my main concern was everyone was brushing off Shaman and Talisman like they were nothing.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I agree with that, my main concern was everyone was brushing off Shaman and Talisman like they were nothing.

That usually happens with characters that arent well known.

Originally posted by jrodslam
That usually happens with characters that arent well known.

Bingo, that's why I'm trying my best to inform people about Alpha Flight. Written to what they actually can do they are one of the strongest teams ever in the Marvel universe.