Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Spoilers ahead

Hello all ...

I watched V for Vendetta this week, the latest film by the Wachowski brothers, the makers of the Matrix trilogy. If you haven't seen it yet, you might like to see this trailer before you read on ...
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/index2.html

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/vendettamask.gif

From what I have been reading in the UK in the last few days, the film, and the Wachowski screenplay, have had quite a savaging from 'the critics'. One newspaper headline called it 'V for Vacuous' and the review said it was 'barking mad'.
But movies and art in general are not owned by the critics, nor even by their creators, except in the sense of copyright. What they are, and what they mean, belong to the observer. It doesn't even matter if what we see is not what the creator intended. When it enters our universe the meaning is ours and ours alone. We own the imagination rights.
From that perspective I liked V for Vendetta very much as a symbolic exposure of the world we are entering so fast - and what it will take for us to dramatically change direction.
The film was inspired by the graphic novel of the same name, written by Allan Moore and David Lloyd. Moore said the adaptation was 'imbecilic' and demanded that his name did not appear in the closing credits. Lloyd, however, likes the treatment and says that Moore would only be content if it had been a mirror of the book.
It is set a few years from now in a fascist Britain viciously ruled by a dictator called High Chancellor Adam Sutler, the leader of a party known as Norsefire. The parallels with George Orwell's 1984 are obvious as the Big Brother High Chancellor appears on giant TV screens telling his underlings and the largely subservient population what they will and will not do.
Weaved into the plot are many references to current events, and the torture at a prison, which the film calls calls 'Larkhill', is a clear reference to places like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. The prisoners even wear the orange suits, although the story is set in Britain, not the United States. There is actually a real Larkhill military camp in Wiltshire, England, which is home to a School of Artillery for the British army. The High Chancellor dictatorship also has the double cross symbol of the Illuminati House of Lorraine, often noted in my books.

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/v-for-vendetta-20060221085701748.jpg
The High Chancellor speaks amid the double crosses

The dictatorship in the film came to power when 100,000 people were killed after a deadly virus was released in a water treatment plant and a school. It later emerges that it was the High Chancellor's forces who released the virus (developed through human experiments at Larkhill) as a problem-reaction-solution to justify total power to 'protect the people'. The agent who discovers the truth says to a colleague: 'If our own government was responsible for the deaths of a hundred thousand people ... would you really want to know?

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/034_l.jpg
Agents discover that their own government was behind the disaster used to justify absolute power

When the fascist control comes under challenge, the High Chancellor tells his council to 'remind the public why they need us' and the government-controlled television station, the 'British Television Network', then reports that Avian Flu is a pandemic. A similar structure is operated by the Illuminati, which the High Chancellor and co symbolise.

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/vforvendettapubc.jpg
The slogan of the dictatorship is 'unity', which is often called in today's politics 'consensus'. Decoded, it means 'everyone doing and thinking what we say'.

There are curfews and cameras everywhere 'for your protection' and these are themes, not only of Orwell's classic, but of our society today as governments constantly parrot the need to take our freedoms away to protect us and, ironically, to protect our freedoms.
The 'Agent Smiths' of the Matrix and the government security thugs of today are called the 'fingermen' in V for Vendetta. They are the psychopathic numbskulls who police the people with no regard to fairness and justice. The only laws are the ones they decide in the moment and whatever they do there are no consequences. Far fetched? Well, in London, the city in which the film is set, an innocent Brazilian electrician was shot by police seven times in the head while being held to the floor and those responsible are still at large, not a single one of them charged.
The impositions of the State and its system servers are already targeting the fine detail of our lives. Recently in the UK, a guy was fined 50 Pounds for putting rubbish in a street litter bin because the litter was two pieces of junk mail that were said to constitute 'domestic refuse'. He was fined for 'misuse of a public bin'. Then there was the couple fined for feeding wild birds after council officials hid in bushes to 'catch them'. An 82-year-old woman was even ordered to remove her rain hat in a pub 'for security reasons' because it was claimed to 'restrict close circuit camera coverage'.
These might sound trivial and ludicrous examples to some, but it is in the apparently minor and insignificant that can be seen the true extent to which the State in all its forms has infiltrated our lives.

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/photo_05.jpg

In the opening scene of V for Vendetta, three of the fingermen are about to rape Evey, an assistant at the British Television Network, when the film's 'hero', V, arrives on the scene and kills them. He is wearing a mask depicting Guy Fawkes, who was hung for attempting to blow up Parliament in 1605. The mask is more than symbolic. It hides V's burned features, the result from imprisonment, torture and fire at the Larkhill detention centre.
V is on a vendetta to kill all those who tortured him and to bring down the dictatorship by destroying the buildings symbolic of its power. These include the Old Bailey laws courts and, ultimately, the Houses of Parliament. The aim is to trigger a popular uprising by the oppressed people and his motto is: 'People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.'

As with the Matrix, there is some gruesome violence in the name of freedom when freedom is never won by violence. Freedom apparently 'won' by violence always ushers in another version of dictatorship and oppression. V believes that 'the only verdict is vengeance. The vendetta.'. But Evey disagrees:

Evey: 'You're getting back at them for what they did to you.'
V: 'What was done to me was monstrous'.
Evey: 'And they created a monster'.

Meeting violence with violence is a battle between two expressions of the same insanity. Tony Blair, or 'Oxymoron Man', once memorably used the term 'fighting for peace' when trying to justify the slaughter in Iraq. It is true that the need to avenge and punish in the name of 'justice' succeeds only in turning the avenger into that he seeks to avenge.
That whole 'eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth', thing has always bewildered me. It's like when the State says that killing is wrong yet has a law that allows it to kill the killer. The answer is not vengeance for those who would do us harm. That is not a solution to injustice, it is a life sentence for the vengeful.

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/vforvendetta19.jpg
V and the High Chancellor ... violence + violence = violence doubled

In V for Vengeance, the secret police who impose the will of the High Chancellor may be set slightly in the future, but they are already with us today targeting and torturing all those who refuse to cower and comply. In fact, they have always been with us, back to the Inquisition and way beyond. As V says: 'Fear became the ultimate tool of this government.'.
But the movie is not just a metaphor for a UK dictatorship, it is representative of the methods and ambitions of those who control governments across the world. And they all use fear, not just as their 'ultimate tool', but the first, second and last. Everything they do is based on fear.
The Evey character says at one point: 'I wish I wasn't afraid all the time'. But most people are, that's the idea. We fear the past, present and future. We fear the unknown, we fear not having enough, losing what we have, not having what we want. We fear what will become of us and those that we care for. We fear what others think of us and what they don't think of us. We fear, fear, fear and therefore we are controllable through the manipulation of all that we fear. The present War on Terror is the War of Fear. No Fear, no control.
Evey is eventually arrested for her connection to V and tortured and interrogated at Larkhill. There is a twist to this in the film, but it is not relevant here. Anyone who watched the documentary, The Road to Guantanamo, featured in a recent newsletter, will know that what is portrayed in the fictional Larkhill is already happening across the world every day.

It's only a movie....

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/19.jpg

In her cell, Evey finds a letter from a previous prisoner hidden in a crevice in the wall. What she reads gives her the inspiration to let go of that which really imprisons her, imprisons us all - fear. It says:

I don't know who you are. Please believe. There is no way I can convince you that this is not one of their tricks. But I don't care. I am me, and I don't know who you are, but I love you.

I have a pencil. A little one they did not find. I am a woman. I hid it inside me. Perhaps I won't be able to write again, so this is a long letter about my life. It is the only autobiography I have ever written and oh God I'm writing it on toilet paper.

I was born in Nottingham in 1957, and it rained a lot. I passed my eleven plus and went to girl's Grammar. I wanted to be an actress.
I met my first girlfriend at school. Her name was Sara. She was fourteen and I was fifteen but we were both in Miss Watson's class. Her wrists. Her wrists were beautiful. I sat in biology class, staring at the picket rabbit foetus in its jar, listening while Mr. Hird said it was an adolescent phase that people outgrew. Sara did. I didn't.

In 1976 I stopped pretending and took a girl called Christine home to meet my parents. A week later I enrolled at drama college. My mother said I broke her heart.
But it was my integrity that was important. Is that so selfish? It sells for so little, but it's all we have left in this place. It is the very last inch of us. But within that inch we are free.

London. I was happy in London. In 1981 I played Dandini in Cinderella. My first rep work. The world was strange and rustling and busy, with invisible crowds behind the hot lights and all that breathless glamour. It was exciting and it was lonely. At nights I'd go to the Crew-Ins or one of the other clubs. But I was stand-offish and didn't mix easily. I saw a lot of the scene, but I never felt comfortable there. So many of them just wanted to be gay. It was their life, their ambition. And I wanted more than that.

Work improved. I got small film roles, then bigger ones. In 1986 I starred in 'The Salt Flats'. It pulled in the awards but not the crowds. I met Ruth while working on that. We loved each other. We lived together and on Valentine's Day she sent me roses and, oh God, we had so much. Those were the best three years of my life.

In 1988 there was the war, and after that there were no more roses. Not for anybody.

In 1992 they started rounding up the gays. They took Ruth while she was out looking for food. Why are they so frightened of us? They burned her with cigarette ends and made her give them my name. She signed a statement saying I'd seduced her. I didn't blame her. God, I loved her. I didn't blame her.

But she did. She killed herself in her cell. She couldn't live with betraying me, with giving up that last inch. Oh Ruth. . . .

They came for me. They told me that all of my films would be burned. They shaved off my hair and held my head down a toilet bowl and told jokes about lesbians. They brought me here and gave me drugs. I can't feel my tongue anymore. I can't speak.

The other gay women here, Rita, died two weeks ago. I imagine I'll die quite soon. It's strange that my life should end in such a terrible place, but for three years I had roses and I apologized to nobody.
I shall die here. Every last inch of me shall perish. Except one.

An inch. It's small and it's fragile and it's the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it, or sell it, or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

I don't know who you are. Or whether you're a man or a woman. I may never see you or cry with you or get drunk with you. But I love you. I hope that you escape this place. I hope that the world turns and that things get better, and that one day people have roses again. I wish I could kiss you.''
...........

That 'last inch', that 'integrity that sells for so little', is the essence of who we are. We are not our bodies, not even our minds, emotions and thoughts. They are all programs and, therefore, programmable. We are that infinite essence, that connection to All That Is, beyond the vibrational walls of this illusory and delusory reality. Call it soul, call it whatever, it the part of us they cannot break, for it is unbreakable, unprogrammable, unintimidatable.

Fear is the absence of what I call Infinite Love. Forget the mechanical, electrochemical, intellectual state that passes for 'love' in this reality. The two do not compare. Infinite Love, the 'last inch' they can never have, is not the love of attraction, of beauty, of mind and personality. It is love for everything, for everyone, forever. There are no exceptions, no favourites, for in the vastness of forever, what we do not love is always ourselves. How can it not be when we are everything and, thus, everything we love and everything we don't?
How do we access, consciously become, this essence, this true and ultimate 'I'? We stop being frightened. We stop bowing to fear. It is that which entraps us in the illusions of the Matrix, holds us in the low vibrational state of our manipulated five-sense reality.
Fear is the prison, its absence is the key.

What we need is the understanding and the will to change the reality that manifests as control and suppression and this can never be done while we are imprisoned by fear. Freedom from fear is freedom itself.

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/20.jpg
Valerie under interogation

Inspired by reading Valerie's letter, Evey is given one last chance to inform on V or face the firing squad. How many have succumbed through fear of death, fear of the unknown?
The interrogator tells her fate if she doesn't tell them what they want:
'You must tell us the identity or whereabouts of code-name V. Do you understand what I'm telling you?'
'Yes.'
'Are you ready to cooperate?'
'No.'

We cannot be controlled, forced or intimidated when we are no longer in fear.

Evey is not killed because of the twist I mentioned and when V dies Evey takes over the mantle. An Internet review of V for Vendetta picks up the change that now takes place when love replaces vengeance:
'This is why Evey becomes V at the end of the story. (V for "Evey".) As an idea, as a force, the original V can only do so much. He can rebel against The System, he can awaken the value of Valerie's One Inch to the populace, but once that is achieved, he no longer has a purpose. So Evey steps in, picking up where V left off. She continues the cycle--as V adopted the guise of Guy Fawkes, Evey adopts the guise of V, continuing his spirit while becoming something more than he could ever have been. "I will not lead them. But I'll help them build. Help them create where I'll not help them kill. The age of killers is no more". The first V was a killer, a destroyer, in both the figurative and literal sense. But the next V, Evey, will be a teacher, a builder.'
Before his death, V sends thousands of his Guy Fawkes masks to Londoners and so reported sightings of him are everywhere. Eventually hordes of masked people march on Westminster and through the lines of armed soldiers who choose not to shoot after not receiving orders from the now dead High Chancellor.

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/v-for-vendetta-20060221085724795.jpg

This, for me, was the most profound part of the film, symbolic of the power that we have together when we cease to fall for the age-old scam of 'divide 'em and rule 'em'. As George Orwell said in 1984:
'But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no reason to conspire. They needed only to rise up and shake themselves, like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose, they could blow the party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely, sooner or later, it must occur to them to do it. And yet ...'
Even more powerful in my view was when the crowds removed the masks, no longer in fear of identification, and allowed the world to see who they were.

The human race may not wear Guy Fawkes masks, but they do wear a face that isn't them as they hide themselves behind identikit personas. The faces they put to the world are not who they are, but who they think they are expected to be and fear not to be.
As V tells one of the fascist agents ... 'Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. There is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bullet-proof.'
It mirrors the words of Victor Hugo: 'There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.'
Quite so. And the idea is called '. freedom'

So your basic point is that the only way to obtain freedom is by using Terrorist methods.

Right, Deano?

Whew...this movie sounds too complicated. I think I'll wait for Vendetta 2: Viva Las Vegas

Where did you copy that from deano? And read the comic, it's excellent.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
So your basic point is that the only way to obtain freedom is by using Terrorist methods.

Right, Deano?

actually it states that violence isnt the answer. try reading it..all of it

That was long... I guess you have a point that the people who made the movie were trying to relate to the real world politics today, but I dont know if 'violence isnt the answer' is what they were trying to depict in the movie- considering how violent it is.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Where did you copy that from deano? And read the comic, it's excellent.
Alan Moore is excellent in general.
To bad Hollywood has a habbit of raping his work...like From Hell

Originally posted by Slay
Alan Moore is excellent in general.
To bad Hollywood has a habbit of raping his work...like From Hell

Yeah...he asked for his name to be taken from the end credits...which is hilarious cause it now says "Based on teh Graphic Novel illustrated by David Lloyd"

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah...he asked for his name to be taken from the end credits...which is hilarious cause it now says "Based on teh Graphic Novel illustrated by David Lloyd"


Imagine people walking from the cinema,wondering who wrote the ''script'' for that Graphic Novel.Because I don't

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
That was long... I guess you have a point that the people who made the movie were trying to relate to the real world politics today, but I dont know if 'violence isnt the answer' is what they were trying to depict in the movie- considering how violent it is.

violence is the answer to certain people. the writer of the article isnt saying that the movie 'doesnt condone violence, thats not what he is saying.

the person who wrote that article is saying that violence ISNT the answer. but the film is very close to the truth in other aspects.

Originally posted by Slay


Imagine people walking from the cinema,wondering who wrote the ''script'' for that Graphic Novel.Because I don't
You don't imagine, you don't wonder or you didn' write it?


And still, Deano, where did you get that from? You didn't just type it, everyone knows that.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You don't imagine, you don't wonder or you didn' write it?


And still, Deano, where did you get that from? You didn't just type it, everyone knows that.
Wikipedia...Possibly.Maybe I should search V for Vendetta on Wiki ...

Another Deano copy/paste thread? Doesn't this belong in the Movies Forum or the conspiracy thread?

I'm assuming half of what you wrote are opinions, Deano.

Why Deano, I didn't know you were a published author.

Is this with spoilers ? Cause i aint reading that.

my friend sent it me through email. the author is david icke.

wowwhatasurprise

I hear the movie was excellent but did take away from the comic book at the end which was actually a very important part in the comic.

At least it's being praised as a good film, unfortunately Alan Moore's other great works are mangled into piece of shit films like League of Extrordinary Gentlemen.

People need to get over the supposed "terrorist message of hate" related with V... THERE IS NONE!

This movie/story embodies freedom!

And all the crap I've been reading/hearing about "oh its storyline is ripped from today's headlines with the bombings and terrorists and gay marriages and fascist hatred" is so ludicrous! I mean the comic was written over two decades ago!

My advice to them is to read the damn thing and do a little actual research before they knock something they know absolutely nothing about.

Its a beautiful and inspiration tale of fighting for the what's right in life and the pursuit of the freedom to be who you are and not who someone wants/tells you to be!

We could all learn a little something from V... like how to be open minded!

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I hear the movie was excellent but did take away from the comic book at the end which was actually a very important part in the comic.

At least it's being praised as a good film, unfortunately Alan Moore's other great works are mangled into piece of shit films like League of Extrordinary Gentlemen.

I do have to say I like what they did with From Hell though.

Originally posted by PVS
wowwhatasurprise

It is indeed, ...you have friends, Deano?

"I mean the comic was written over two decades ago!"

Yes, and was based on nuclear hysteria. The film changed the basis.

Moore's genius is undeniable, but you only have to read his foreword to V to see how totally wrong he was about the way he thought things were going.

The film's direction is simply an exploitation of current feeling, not some fantastic social commentary. it really is just a film.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is indeed, ...you have friends, Deano?

more than you i would imagine

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"I mean the comic was written over two decades ago!"

Yes, and was based on nuclear hysteria. The film changed the basis.

Moore's genius is undeniable, but you only have to read his foreword to V to see how totally wrong he was about the way he thought things were going.

The film's direction is simply an exploitation of current feeling, not some fantastic social commentary. it really is just a film.

Yeah, he admitted that he made mistakes with his prediction. But I don't think that the whole based on Thatcher-ism and such is such an important issue to the Novel. There are a great many themes that are either still interesting today or could be again...oh and it's a great read.

Originally posted by Deano
more than you i would imagine

Oh Deano, no offense, the joke had to be made.....nothing personal.

no offense taken..but the joke gets boring after a while

Firstly, I'd like to make it quite clear that I think Icke is a moron.



That quote is very apt for the times we live in, and I think 'V for Vendetta' did an excellent job in relating these issues. Considering the nature of the medium and the genre of the movie, 'V' naturally does this in an exaggerated form, but I don't think this detracted from its resonance. I haven't read the graphic novel, but regardless of whether it was originally determined as an allegory relating to nuclear hysteria, the movie did an excellent in using its basis for a political/social allegory in these days of the 'War(s) on Terror(s)'.



The problem with V's reflection of Hugo is that it is a quote that could be applied to every side of the argument. I'd like to claim it for those of us who are appalled by the continual erosion of civil liberties, but the governments supporting the 'War on Terror could claim it, and so could the Al-Qaeda's of this world...It's a precarious balance that only time will address.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Firstly, I'd like to make it quite clear that I think Icke is a moron.

he has done alot more than you in his life. i dont think your in any position to call him a moron!

I just did though.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I just did though.

You tell him.

tell me what?

Originally posted by Deano
tell me what?

Nothing

An illusion it will be, so large, so vast it will escape their
perception.

Those who will see it will be thought of as insane.

We will create separate fronts to prevent them from seeing the
connection between us.

We will behave as if we are not connected to keep the illusion alive.
Our goal will be accomplished one drop at a time so as to never bring
suspicion upon ourselves. This will also prevent them from seeing
the changes as they occur.

We will always stand above the relative field of their experience
for we know the secrets of the absolute.

We will work together always and will remain bound by blood and
secrecy. Death will come to he who speaks.



We will keep their lifespan short and their minds weak while
pretending to do the opposite.

We will use our knowledge of science and technology in subtle
ways so they will never see what is happening.

We will use soft metals, aging accelerators and sedatives in
food and water, also in the air.

They will be blanketed by poisons everywhere they turn.

The soft metals will cause them to lose their minds. We will
promise to find a cure from our many fronts, yet we will
feed them more poison.

The poisons will be absorbed trough their skin and mouths,
they will destroy their minds and reproductive systems.

From all this, their children will be born dead, and we will conceal
this information.

The poisons will be hidden in everything that surrounds them,
in what they drink, eat, breathe and wear.

We must be ingenious in dispensing the poisons for they
can see far.

We will teach them that the poisons are good, with fun images
and musical tones.

Those they look up to will help. We will enlist them to
push our poisons.

They will see our products being used in film and
will grow accustomed to them and will never know
their true effect.

When they give birth we will inject poisons into the blood
of their children and convince them its for their help.

We will start early on, when their minds are young, we will
target their children with what children love most, sweet
things.

When their teeth decay we will fill them with metals
that will kill their mind and steal their future.

When their ability to learn has been affected,
we will create medicine that will make them sicker and cause other
diseases for which we will create yet more medicine.

We will render them docile and weak before us by our power.

They will grow depressed, slow and obese, and when they
come to us for help, we will give them more poison.

We will focus their attention toward money and material goods
so they many never connect with their inner self. We will distract
them with fornication, external pleasures and games so they may
never be one with the oneness of it all.

Their minds will belong to us and they will do as we say.
If they refuse we shall find ways to implement mind-altering technology
into their lives. We will use fear as our weapon.

We will establish their governments and establish opposites within.
We will own both sides.

We will always hide our objective but carry out our plan.

They will perform the labor for us and we shall prosper from their toil.

Our families will never mix with theirs. Our blood must be pure
always, for it is the way.

We will make them kill each other when it suits us.

We will keep them separated from the oneness by dogma and religion.

We will control all aspects of their lives and tell them what to think and how.

We will guide them kindly and gently letting them think they are guiding
themselves.

We will foment animosity between them through our factions.

When a light shall shine among them, we shall extinguish it by ridicule,
or death, whichever suits us best.

We will make them rip each other's hearts apart and kill their own children.

We will accomplish this by using hate as our ally, anger as our friend.

The hate will blind them totally, and never shall they see that from their
conflicts we emerge as their rulers. They will be busy killing each other.

They will bathe in their own blood and kill their neighbors for as long
as we see fit.

We will benefit greatly from this, for they will not see us, for they
cannot see us.

We will continue to prosper from their wars and their deaths.

We shall repeat this over and over until our ultimate goal is
accomplished.

We will continue to make them live in fear and anger
though images and sounds.

We will use all the tools we have to accomplish this.

The tools will be provided by their labor.

We will make them hate themselves and their neighbors.

We will always hide the divine truth from them, that we are all one.
This they must never know!

They must never know that color is an illusion, they must always
think they are not equal.

Drop by drop, drop by drop we will advance our goal.

We will take over their land, resources and wealth to exercise total
control over them.

We will deceive them into accepting laws that will steal the little
freedom they will have.

We will establish a money system that will imprison them forever,
keeping them and their children in debt.

When they shall ban together, we shall accuse them of crimes and present a
different story to the world for we shall own all the media.

We will use our media to control the flow of information and their sentiment
in our favor.

When they shall rise up against us we will crush them like insects, for
they are less than that.

They will be helpless to do anything for they will have no weapons.

We will recruit some of their own to carry out our plans, we will promise them
eternal life, but eternal life they will never have for they are not of us.

The recruits will be called "initiates" and will be indoctrinated to believe
false rites of passage to higher realms. Members of
these groups will think they are one with us never knowing the truth.
They must never learn this truth for they will turn against us.

For their work they will be rewarded with earthly things and great titles,
but never will they become immortal and join us, never will they receive
the light and travel the stars.

They will never reach the higher realms, for the killing of their own kind
will prevent passage to the realm of enlightenment. This they will never know.

The truth will be hidden in their face, so close they will not be able to focus
on it until its too late.

Oh yes, so grand the illusion of freedom will be, that they will never know they
are our slaves.

When all is in place, the reality we will have created for them will own them.
This reality will be their prison. They will live in self-delusion.

When our goal is accomplished a new era of domination will begin.

Their minds will be bound by their beliefs, the beliefs we have established
from time immemorial.

But if they ever find out they are our equal, we shall perish then. THIS THEY
MUST NEVER KNOW.

If they ever find out that together they can vanquish us, they will take action.

They must never, ever find out what we have done, for if they do, we shall
have no place to run, for it will be easy to see who we are once the veil has
fallen. Our actions will have revealed who we are and they will hunt us down
and no person shall give us shelter.

This is the secret covenant by which we shall live the rest of our present
and future lives, for this reality will transcend many generations and life
spans.

This covenant is sealed by blood, our blood. We, the ones who from
heaven to earth came.

This covenant must NEVER, EVER be known to exist. It must NEVER, EVER
be written or spoken of for if it is, the consciousness it will spawn will release
the fury of the PRIME CREATOR upon us and we shall be cast to the depths
from whence we came and remain there until the end time of infinity itself

Deano, my post actually supported some of the points Icke raised. He is capable of insight, but his vast catelogue of ridiculousness is too large to let it emerge from the shadows. Obviously, you're a fan, so you must have read some of his books, which have cited white supremacist, neo-Nazi and other far-right publications. Then, there are things like "I am a son of the Godhead" - which he later tried to explain as him not yet being sufficently grounded after a trip to Peru! Sure, everytime I make a long-distance flight I find myself, on arriving at my destination, entertaining thoughts of divinity...

Anyway, it would be much more interesting - and credible - if you posted your thoughts regarding the issues Icke raises, rather than copying and pasting verbatim. It shows no insight on your part, and you end up looking like the 'sheep' you are attacking.

...Deano, I don't think quoting something called "the Reptilian Pact" is going to greatly improve your credibility. I know your hero believes that Bush is a blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptile alien, but that doesn't mean you have to.

For that matter, I don't think there's anything you could quote to improve your credibility. Floo's right, formulate your own ideas if you want to be taken seriously.

Icke's a moron, incidently. I don't care how much he's done with his life; most of it involves crazy, spittle-flecked paranoia, and the other part involved turning his political party into a laughing-stock.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Deano, my post actually supported some of the points Icke raised. He is capable of insight, but his vast catelogue of ridiculousness is too large to let it emerge from the shadows. Obviously, you're a fan, so you must have read some of his books, which have cited white supremacist, neo-Nazi and other far-right publications. Then, there are things like "I am a son of the Godhead" - which he later tried to explain as him not yet being sufficently grounded after a trip to Peru! Sure, everytime I make a long-distance flight I find myself, on arriving at my destination, entertaining thoughts of divinity...

Anyway, it would be much more interesting - and credible - if you posted your thoughts regarding the issues Icke raises, rather than copying and pasting verbatim. It shows no insight on your part, and you end up looking like the 'sheep' you are attacking.

"My child, you are the son of God, we are all sons of god."
With careful editing the Wogan Show made David Icke out to be completely bonkers, that he was claiming to be the only son of God! They cut the bit out about us all being the sons and daughters of God.


my thoughts are not important.

Originally posted by Gregory
...Deano, I don't think quoting something called "the Reptilian Pact" is going to greatly improve your credibility. I know your hero believes that Bush is a blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptile alien, but that doesn't mean you have to.

For that matter, I don't think there's anything you could quote to improve your credibility. Floo's right, formulate your own ideas if you want to be taken seriously.

Icke's a moron, incidently. I don't care how much he's done with his life; most of it involves crazy, spittle-flecked paranoia, and the other part involved turning his political party into a laughing-stock.

ickes a moron...and you are not yeh? not havin a pop or anythin

Originally posted by Deano
my thoughts are not important.

That does seem kind of contradictory Deano.

Contradictory and self dismissive.

It's also self-defeating seeing as he is always going on about the rest of us being mindless sheep. Now, he's actually claiming to be one! I detect a conspiracy; he's telling us his thoughts are unimportant, when he actually means they are important, and he's saying they're not as a way of making us evaluate their subtleties even more. Then again, it could just be that he is a ...

Actually, I should probably have says "crazy" instead of "moron." He may be a very intelligent person, in terms of memory and learning capacity--but he's an intelligent person who believes that Princess Diana was murdered after discovering that Prince Charles and Duchess Camilla's had a baby who was murdered as part of a Satanic ritual. An intelligent person who is on record as saying that

"The Rothschilds, Rockefellers, the British royal family, and the ruling political and economic families of the U.S. and the rest of the world come from these SAME bloodlines. It is not because of snobbery, it is to hold as best they can a genetic structure — the reptilian-mammalian DNA combination which allows them to 'shape-shift'," and that

" own resaerch suggests that it is from another dimension, the lower fourth dimension, that the reptilian control and manipulation is primarily orchestrated. Other people know this as the lower astral dimension, the legendary home of demons and malevolent antities in their black magic rituals ..."

Don't take this the wrong way Deano, but I don't understand you at all. I assume that you don't believe that type of thing--I've never seen you talk about reptile aliens, although maybe you do in the conspiracy thread--but you quote Icke like he's some sort of sainted prophet. If you must quote people to make your points, surely there are less crazy ones you could use?

If you're not sure whether you are a moron or not, then perhaps you are schizophrenic though...

Shnoogins.

(FYI, I edited my post extensively. Which is why Floo's reply no longer makes sense. All I said, in my original post, was that if I was a moron, at least I wasn't a crazy one).

Yeah, you edited just a little...

You said: "If I am a moron, then at least I'm not a schizophrenic one, which makes me better than Icke".

It's all good.

Deano is perfectly entitled to quote Icke if he's into it, but it's a bit sad that he has nothing to say for himself. When I say "sad", I mean "ironic", seeing as he says other people do all the thinking for us proles...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
It's also self-defeating seeing as he is always going on about the rest of us being mindless sheep. Now, he's actually claiming to be one! I detect a conspiracy; he's telling us his thoughts are unimportant, when he actually means they are important, and he's saying they're not as a way of making us evaluate their subtleties even more. Then again, it could just be that he is a ...

i said my thoughts are not important.

Thank you, Deano. I think we've ascertained that already.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"I mean the comic was written over two decades ago!"

Yes, and was based on nuclear hysteria. The film changed the basis.

Moore's genius is undeniable, but you only have to read his foreword to V to see how totally wrong he was about the way he thought things were going.

The film's direction is simply an exploitation of current feeling, not some fantastic social commentary. it really is just a film.

I agree Ush. It's a shame that people use his works to drive their current state of mind on our present political issues.

Quite frankly this is one Moore I really apreciate...unlike that other Moore with a camera and a baseball cap.

I like Michael Moore.... he's not afraid to speak his views on a subject he knows he will most likely be hated for... unlike some of us who will believe anything the government and media tells us to believe.

I mean isn't that the idea behind V for Vendetta? To stand up and be free to think for yourself and speak your mind without being persecuted for your beliefs?

Alas... a true utopian society that we will never have unless people learn to see outside the box...

Originally posted by Deano
i said my thoughts are not important.


But, Deano, that seems to me to be the very position you oppose.

Look, a lot of the conspiracy writings you post, I don't support. However, a lot of the 9/11 topics you've contributed to make sense. When the facts are placed in opposition with the story, they don't add up. I agree that 9/11 was just as staged as Pearle Habour. But, your own thoughts on the subject are important, as they allow insight into why your opinion should be considered at all. Don't become, as Ya' Krunk'd said and myself long before him, an instrument of the very powers you oppose. Your opinion and insight are essential to your message. And if people can't trust the perspective of the person speaking, then why trust what they have to say?

Pearl Harbor was staged??

When the hell did this get out and why didn't I get a ****ing memo!?

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Pearl Harbor was staged??

When the hell did this get out and why didn't I get a ****ing memo!?

It was. And I'm sorry you didn't get the e-mail about it.

Is there a link somewhere to a decent article about it or something?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, Deano, that seems to me to be the very position you oppose.

Look, a lot of the conspiracy writings you post, I don't support. However, a lot of the 9/11 topics you've contributed to make sense. When the facts are placed in opposition with the story, they don't add up. I agree that 9/11 was just as staged as Pearle Habour. But, your own thoughts on the subject are important, as they allow insight into why your opinion should be considered at all. Don't become, as Ya' Krunk'd said and myself long before him, an instrument of the very powers you oppose. Your opinion and insight are essential to your message. And if people can't trust the perspective of the person speaking, then why trust what they have to say?


9/11 and pearle horbour are subjective. Argue, or don't. It's all up to you.

Everybody please wear this sig and avvy to support mist!

Sig:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6071/letmistback5dt.jpg

Avvy:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8244/letmistbackavvy4cd.jpg

If you need a bigger avvy, just ask.

Stop spamming threads Human Smoke.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, Deano, that seems to me to be the very position you oppose.

Look, a lot of the conspiracy writings you post, I don't support. However, a lot of the 9/11 topics you've contributed to make sense. When the facts are placed in opposition with the story, they don't add up. I agree that 9/11 was just as staged as Pearle Habour. But, your own thoughts on the subject are important, as they allow insight into why your opinion should be considered at all. Don't become, as Ya' Krunk'd said and myself long before him, an instrument of the very powers you oppose. Your opinion and insight are essential to your message. And if people can't trust the perspective of the person speaking, then why trust what they have to say?

trust your own instincts. thats all i can say.

Originally posted by Deano
i said my thoughts are not important.

Then may I ask, who's thoughts would you deem as important?

Originally posted by Deano
trust your own instincts. thats all i can say.

No, you say much more. If one's instincts leads them to believe that Icke is a total nut, and that there is no illuminati, and that most of your conspiracies are fabrications, you call them a sheep.

Also, please put your copy and paste posts in a quotation box. To do otherwise is to intentionally misrepresent yourself to members who are not aware of your copy and paste history. Also by not posting in quotation boxes the statements of others get mangled up with your own.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Also, please put your copy and paste posts in a quotation box. To do otherwise is to intentionally misrepresent yourself to members who are not aware of your copy and paste history. Also by not posting in quotation boxes the statements of others get mangled up with your own.

He makes his own statements? I was not aware of this.

Damnit, where the hell are my memos!?

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Is there a link somewhere to a decent article about it or something?

I highly recommend 'V for Vendetta ' . Natalie Portman is wonderful as heroic engenue ' Evie ' who, initially , hides her tortured past in her work, but realizes that love and compassion and understanding are the only vehicles that could destroy a destructive and totalitarian idea such as the one that held futuristic London in its grasp with fear and death.

The character ' V ' in the movie refers to the numbered cell in a somewhat modern ' death camp' / political prison camp where so -called ' political prisoners ' would be subjected to inhumane experiments. He happened to be locked in cell numbered " V " and he did not experience the same symptoms as the other prisoners who were given the same virus from the prison officials.

Though there is terroristic actions that Evie and ' V ' use in the movie, these are not an answer to the general problem of changing oppressive governments and the idea that anyone with differing philosphies and lifestyles should be detained and treated worse than cattle. The answer to this problem must reside inside each and everyone of us that wishes to live the way we wish and to respect others for their beliefs.

I rate this movie 3 and 1/2 *'s from a possible 4*'s !!!!! It is very compelling and thought - provoking !

Originally posted by RUSHmusicfan
I highly recommend 'V for Vendetta ' . Natalie Portman is wonderful as heroic engenue ' Evie ' who, initially , hides her tortured past in her work, but realizes that love and compassion and understanding are the only vehicles that could destroy a destructive and totalitarian idea such as the one that held futuristic London in its grasp with fear and death.

The character ' V ' in the movie refers to the numbered cell in a somewhat modern ' death camp' / political prison camp where so -called ' political prisoners ' would be subjected to inhumane experiments. He happened to be locked in cell numbered " V " and he did not experience the same symptoms as the other prisoners who were given the same virus from the prison officials.

Though there is terroristic actions that Evie and ' V ' use in the movie, these are not an answer to the general problem of changing oppressive governments and the idea that anyone with differing philosphies and lifestyles should be detained and treated worse than cattle. The answer to this problem must reside inside each and everyone of us that wishes to live the way we wish and to respect others for their beliefs.

I rate this movie 3 and 1/2 *'s from a possible 4*'s !!!!! It is very compelling and thought - provoking !



Wrong thread...

Try here http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=319943&pagenumber=8#post6274452

I started a major discussion in the pub the other night after watching it and after spouting forth for about 10 minutes my mate looked at me blankly and asked "Does Natalie Portman get her **** out?"

haha. thats all he wants to see the movie for

Originally posted by Deano
my friend sent it me through email. the author is david icke.



Originally posted by PVS
wowwhatasurprise

damn funny a "PVS golden moment".

As for V seen it, not a patch on the Warrior strip come graphic that has no point today as Thatcher and the Tories are in the past (forget the film for that comment and read the preface to the first edition graphic).

As for Moore Miracleman is still his greatest work

Comics

Keep the faith.

i stll havent see this film yet.i need to get moving

Originally posted by Deano
i stll havent see this film yet.i need to get moving

Funny, the first sentence of this thread, that you started reads:

Hello all ...

I watched V for Vendetta this week,

Did you bump this thread just to let an uninterested group of people in on that tidbit of information? Or were you hoping that by resurrecting this thread would ignite some sort of interest in your conspiracey theories as it relates to this movie?

Think this might tick Ush off?

I didn't see it, but a friend of mine said that the entire message of the movie--whatever that may be--was undermined by the fact that 'V' ended up torturing that woman, making him no better than what he was going against.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Think this might tick Ush off?
Flee from moderator rage.

Does seem a bit pointless.

Closed.