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Mar. 28 - In Washington, 100 demonstrators wore handcuffs at the Capitol to protest a bill that would make it a felony to be in this country illegally and would make it crime to dispense aid to the nation's 11 million illegal immigrants.

Immigrant supporters also object to legislation that would also impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and would build fences along part of the U.S.-Mexican border.

I suppose there's another answer. Make it a civil matter. If a someone who's in the country wants a job held by an illegal - it has to be given them or the hiring party can be sued.

You think there'd be any lawsuits?

Problem with this idea - it doesn't account for those crossing the borders for purposes other than employment (you know those nefarious, terrorist/drug smugling type purposes).

Originally posted by docb77
I suppose there's another answer. Make it a civil matter. If a someone who's in the country wants a job held by an illegal - it has to be given them or the hiring party can be sued.

You think there'd be any lawsuits?

Problem with this idea - it doesn't account for those crossing the borders for purposes other than employment (you know those nefarious, terrorist/drug smugling type purposes).

What do you mean. It is a civil matter but I don't think that there'll be any lawsuits. No one's above the law. No matter how hard working you are. If you want to enter this country, do it though legal channels.

LAST FRIDAY

Thousands of illegal-immigrant rights supporters flooded Phoenix streets Friday, rallying in a unified cry against several bills being considered by Congress, including one that would make it a felony to be an illegal immigrant in the United States.

The turnout, estimated by police at more than 20,000 people, clogged major thoroughfares in the central part of the city for hours in what officials said was one of the largest protests in Phoenix history.

The rally was called by the Border Action Network and was expected to draw only between 1,000 and 3,000 people, said Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill.

The massive demonstration, billed as "We are not the enemy, we are part of the solution," coincided with other protests Friday in Tucson, Los Angeles and Atlanta.

Clutching Mexican and American flags, thousands in Phoenix chanted, "Si, se puede," a rallying cry of the United Farm Workers union that means "Yes, we can."

Most of the protesters shouted against a bill passed by the U.S. House in December that would make it a felony to be illegally in the United States, impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border.

Critics of the bill argue that if it passes, those who help illegal immigrants could be committing a felony.

"They want to make a law that would make it illegal for me to talk to my wife," said 21-year-old Phoenix resident Isidro Ortega, who left his job as a traffic engineer for the day to protest the bill. "It's ridiculous."

Ortega and his two children are U.S. citizens, but his wife is not.

"Under this law, I would be considered a felon for supporting my family," he said.

Ortega, who waived a giant Mexican flag, said it's important for the Latino community to unite against the legislation.

"Nobody ever stands up," he said. "It's about time people stood up."

The demonstrations in Phoenix and Tucson were held outside the offices of U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl, sponsor of a separate immigration bill that would step up enforcement along the U.S.-Mexico border and create a temporary guest-worker program.

Malissa Geer, 29, of Phoenix, went to the march with her husband and two daughters to support her Hispanic friends.

"They're here for the American dream," Geer said as she held her 2-year-old daughter and stood on a curb, punching the air with the beat of the chanting protesters. "God created all of us. He's not a God of the United States. He's a God of the world."

Kyl responded to the protest by pointing out that most were speaking out against the House bill making it a felony to be an illegal immigrant, not his bill.

"They (protesters) should be pleased that the Senate is probably going to address this in a much more comprehensive way," Kyl told the Tucson Citizen newspaper during a meeting with its editorial board.

"I support a comprehensive approach to it, and I know the majority of people on the Judiciary Committee do, and I think the majority of senators generally do," he said.

As the protesters thinned out Friday, 37-year-old John Chavez of Phoenix stood on a 6-foot-wall, shouting to passers-by.

"It's about time we exercised some of our civil rights," said Chavez, whose family immigrated from Mexico to Arizona five generations ago.

Chavez' small and simple black-and-white sign drew shouts of support and agreement from the crowd.

It read, "The sleeping giant has awoke."

Maybe the US should just annex Mexico and finish what he failed to finish 150 years ago. Then we can just send all the illegals to the 51st state- Amexica.

Black Ghost -

Anywho, it's called illegal immigration for a reason. I agree with making the law tougher, but I also think it should be made easier to become a legal immigrant. It's actually kind of ridiculous at the moment, even legal immigrants are getting beef.

I have a friend who moved to England from the U.S. last year and she said she still hasn't become fully immigrated because they ask "why would you want to move out of a first world country?' WTF is that? If she wants to move out, who gives a shit?

Americans are always crying about illegal immigrants but the fact of the matter is these people take the jobs Americans don't want. How many Americans want to be cooks, dishwashers, farm workers, busboys, etc? You don't see very many illegals getting jobs as aerospace engineers, nuclear physicists, etc. The problem isn't immigration, it's free trade which allows corporations to outsource the actual good jobs to cheap labor countries.

well you can't kick them out.

There are 12 million of them. So you must deal with them inside your own borders.

We misted a good opportunity to round up a bunch of them. jk

Now if all the protesters were Illegal Immigrants at that protest they should have just rounded them up told them to STFU and sent them back to Mexico..................

If they are legal then fight the legislation however the voices in the article above are voices that haven't read all the legislation and are just meant to give an emotional rally cry...........you seperated my family in the USA.........

Really? They need to step on this problem already. If they can't be bothered to become citizens legally (At least attempt the process... and most of them don't even speak English. I learned that from three years in El Paso), why should anyone coddle them and say it's okay? It's illegal immigration. We as a nation have the right to stand up and say "Hey, this is enough." There's 12 million or so of them already over here. How many other first world countries have that many ILLEGAL immigrants? None. This is ridiculous. It isn't about them taking jobs we don't want; it's about the fact that you have millions of people living here who aren't US citizens. Do you think that if 12 million Romanians moved into France or Germany illegally, the latter would just be like "Okay" and let it slide? Nope. I mean, who's going to house all of these people? What if they deliver babies here so they can be citizens? Is that fair? Should they suddenly be granted rights in that case either?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have immigration, and I'm not saying this because it's primarily Mexicans coming over either; I'm saying that the enormous amount of undereducated, non-English speaking people pouring into a country that's already made the world landmark in national debt is a recipe for disastor. Obviously Mexico sucks so bad that 12 million of its former inhabitants and their descendants are in this country. Instead of fleeing, they should be back home trying to make things better. This is not a get out of jail free card... You come over here and get a job illegally, live here illegally, and most reap the benefits of being in the US and forms of aid, etc... That's not fair to the rest of us. I'm pretty sure if we sent over enormous groups of undereducated, English speaking individuals who demanded classes be taught in English, signs and driver's tests be in English, that Mexico celebrate the Fourth of July, etc. White History month... Please. That wouldn't fly two seconds in any other nation in the world. Why should we take up a standard that no one else will?

I say let's make the process available for those who do intend to stay here. They should have to know English because it IS the language on the money, and the damn Constitution is written in it, as are all the damn laws in the country. They should maintain consistant residence for their first few years in the country, and they should have to prove that they're getting a job and trying to maintain a home. The rest who fail to reach that level of commitment to becoming Americans can go home in droves.

Originally posted by Lightningrod
LAST FRIDAY

Thousands of illegal-immigrant rights supporters flooded Phoenix streets Friday, rallying in a unified cry against several bills being considered by Congress, including one that would make it a felony to be an illegal immigrant in the United States.

The turnout, estimated by police at more than 20,000 people, clogged major thoroughfares in the central part of the city for hours in what officials said was one of the largest protests in Phoenix history.

The rally was called by the Border Action Network and was expected to draw only between 1,000 and 3,000 people, said Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill.

The massive demonstration, billed as "We are not the enemy, we are part of the solution," coincided with other protests Friday in Tucson, Los Angeles and Atlanta.

Clutching Mexican and American flags, thousands in Phoenix chanted, "Si, se puede," a rallying cry of the United Farm Workers union that means "Yes, we can."

Most of the protesters shouted against a bill passed by the U.S. House in December that would make it a felony to be illegally in the United States, impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border.

Critics of the bill argue that if it passes, those who help illegal immigrants could be committing a felony.

"They want to make a law that would make it illegal for me to talk to my wife," said 21-year-old Phoenix resident Isidro Ortega, who left his job as a traffic engineer for the day to protest the bill. "It's ridiculous."

Ortega and his two children are U.S. citizens, but his wife is not.

"Under this law, I would be considered a felon for supporting my family," he said.

Ortega, who waived a giant Mexican flag, said it's important for the Latino community to unite against the legislation.

"Nobody ever stands up," he said. "It's about time people stood up."

The demonstrations in Phoenix and Tucson were held outside the offices of U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl, sponsor of a separate immigration bill that would step up enforcement along the U.S.-Mexico border and create a temporary guest-worker program.

Malissa Geer, 29, of Phoenix, went to the march with her husband and two daughters to support her Hispanic friends.

"They're here for the American dream," Geer said as she held her 2-year-old daughter and stood on a curb, punching the air with the beat of the chanting protesters. "God created all of us. He's not a God of the United States. He's a God of the world."

Kyl responded to the protest by pointing out that most were speaking out against the House bill making it a felony to be an illegal immigrant, not his bill.

"They (protesters) should be pleased that the Senate is probably going to address this in a much more comprehensive way," Kyl told the Tucson Citizen newspaper during a meeting with its editorial board.

"I support a comprehensive approach to it, and I know the majority of people on the Judiciary Committee do, and I think the majority of senators generally do," he said.

As the protesters thinned out Friday, 37-year-old John Chavez of Phoenix stood on a 6-foot-wall, shouting to passers-by.

"It's about time we exercised some of our civil rights," said Chavez, whose family immigrated from Mexico to Arizona five generations ago.

Chavez' small and simple black-and-white sign drew shouts of support and agreement from the crowd.

It read, "The sleeping giant has awoke."

I was at that demonstration; just like southern segregation in the '60's, immigration policies are a tool for racism.

FistOfThe North and Arachnoidfreak, you guys are Latino, do you think the bill should be passed?

Originally posted by Wesker
Obviously Mexico sucks so bad that 12 million of its former inhabitants and their descendants are in this country. Instead of fleeing, they should be back home trying to make things better.

Just because we didn't come to the US via Ellis Island, doesn't mean we should be sent back. That's a pig-headed racist statement.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Just because we didn't come to the US via Ellis Island, doesn't mean we should be sent back. That's a pig-headed racist statement.

I think that Immigration Laws should be loosened...but that doesn't make it any less right for peope to come to a country illegally.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I was at that demonstration; just like southern segregation in the '60's, immigration policies are a tool for racism.

FistOfThe North and Arachnoidfreak, you guys are Latino, do you think the bill should be passed?

I'll answer your question but 1st lemme say this.

I believe that if laws are broken in the U.S. there are consequences for breaking them, no matter who you are. No one's above the law, not even the President.

My heart bleeds for the difficult situations that immigrants go though but if you're in the country illegally then your committing a crime. I would get arrested for breaking U.S. laws (if i get caught) just like everyone else would.

I am not against immigration or immigrants but like I said before, I do think they should enter the country through legal channels, that's all. So do I think the law should be passed? Yes but only if there's a pro to it. (pro-con)

With con being the passing of the bill and the pro part making it easier than ever for all immigrants to legally come to the U.S.

But passing this law balls to bones like this may be impossible. What about families who have an immigrant mother, and a husband and son born in the U.S. Do you separate them. It would cause unnecessary chaos.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I'll answer your question but 1st lemme say this.

I believe that if laws are broken in the U.S. there are consequences for breaking them, no matter who you are. No one's above the law, not even the President.

My heart bleeds for the difficult situations that immigrants go though but if you're in the country illegally then your committing a crime. I would get arrested for breaking U.S. laws (if i get caught) just like everyone else would.

I am not against immigration or immigrants but like I said before, I do think they should enter the country through legal channels, that's all. So do I think the law should be passed? Yes but only if there's a pro to it. (pro-con)

With con being the passing of the bill and the pro part making it easier than ever for all immigrants to legally come to the U.S.

But passing this law balls to bones like this may be impossible. What about families who have an immigrant mother, and a husband and son born in the U.S. Do you separate them. It would cause unnecessary chaos.

Actually, the president is above the law, sad but true. If OJ can get a way with it, then sure as hell can El Presidente.

That last little blurb is very true, ese.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Just because we didn't come to the US via Ellis Island, doesn't mean we should be sent back. That's a pig-headed racist statement.

No, it's not a racist statement; it's something most people don't consider. The common stance is that they need to be here, that it's like a refuge. Well, if Mexico is so bad, why isn't anything done about it? I'm sure if 12 million people come into your country from the one next door, there's something wrong. What is it? Can it be fixed? I don't think running is the answer to the problems. Hell, just a portion of those people could make a difference in Mexico. Is it really the right idea to just leave? It's not Soviet Russia down there.

I like how we're supposed to be sympathetic to illegal immigrants and their plight, but what are they doing to help themselves? Running here? What ever happened to working to better your country? I see half a dozen Mexican flags on bumpers of cars driving to work, but the license plates are American. How can you claim to have national pride when you're fleeing your country and you won't even work to make it better? That's ridiculous. I'd rather the U.S. pour effort and money into making Mexico a better place for people to want to live than to just sit by idlely and let people run here and start over again. Again, I ask: what was so horrible about Mexico that people won't stay and fight for better conditions?

I'm all for illegal immigration policies. For me we should keep the productive immigrant and kick out all the rowdy and abusive immigrants that come to this country to commit crimes.

Didn't you guys know that Scarface is an actual critique of the immigrants? Whereas films like El Norte are an illustration of the productive immigrant that comes to this country? Isn't it odd Scarface is more known that El Norte? And yes, El Norte is powerful film. I suggest you watch it.

I also support the students that have been marching to voice their opinions in a peaceful and orderly behavior. However, the students that are just walking out of school to get on freeways and march in the middle of a busy work day SHOULD be arrested and the parents should be give strict penalties for not keeping their children in order.

Originally posted by Wesker
No, it's not a racist statement; it's something most people don't consider. The common stance is that they need to be here, that it's like a refuge. Well, if Mexico is so bad, why isn't anything done about it? I'm sure if 12 million people come into your country from the one next door, there's something wrong. What is it? Can it be fixed? I don't think running is the answer to the problems. Hell, just a portion of those people could make a difference in Mexico. Is it really the right idea to just leave? It's not Soviet Russia down there.

I like how we're supposed to be sympathetic to illegal immigrants and their plight, but what are they doing to help themselves? Running here? What ever happened to working to better your country? I see half a dozen Mexican flags on bumpers of cars driving to work, but the license plates are American. How can you claim to have national pride when you're fleeing your country and you won't even work to make it better? That's ridiculous. I'd rather the U.S. pour effort and money into making Mexico a better place for people to want to live than to just sit by idlely and let people run here and start over again. Again, I ask: what was so horrible about Mexico that people won't stay and fight for better conditions?

There's nothing "wrong" per se; they're impoverished people who are willing to do bottom feeder work for shit pay. They're doing it to support their family. I do think that if you're that poor, you shouldn't have like 7 or 8 kids.

I have the Mexican flag on the front of my ride, but it has nothing to do with national affiliation; its in recognition of heritage and cultural pride, ese. Its no different than white people who have the Irish or Italian flag on their car.

Where are you from, Wesker?

Originally posted by Wesker
Again, I ask: what was so horrible about Mexico that people won't stay and fight for better conditions?

Mexican President Vincente Fox.

Wow before I get to say anything good Wesker comes in and sums it up.

Illegal immigrants should have to work to become legal and there should be rules in place to help facilitate that but not take alot of the effort away.

People attempting to become illegal immigrants ie running the border now, should just get shipped back and be looking up at big tall fences here in the future with minimal entrances to keep track and not mad dash to the USA.

well i don't think one solution is to send them all back.

That further increase the problem.

Originally posted by manny321
well i don't think one solution is to send them all back.

That further increase the problem.

How?

Like someone said, it's called illegal for a reason. I don't have any problem with making the laws more harsh. I think it's a good thing. I don't have issues with people who don't speak english. I don't have a problem with people who want to maintain their original or ethnic culture and traditions. But, they need to be paying into the system just like those of us who are here legally or were lucky enough to be born here. Sure, they pay sales tax and buy goods and services too. But we all do that, and we all pay more than is fair or necessary on top of it...and so too should they. But, also as some one said earlier, in addition to tightening the laws governing the illegal immigrants, they should also make the legal process run more smoothly. However, it shouldn't be an easy thing to pick up and move to another country. Especially in this day of global terrorism.

But, in all honesty, I'd trade 1 Andy Milonakis for 12 million illegal immigrants.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I was at that demonstration; just like southern segregation in the '60's, immigration policies are a tool for racism.

FistOfThe North and Arachnoidfreak, you guys are Latino, do you think the bill should be passed?

It's really not about whether they are Latino or not, they're illegal immigrants. "Illegal" being the key word there. What I think should be done is that becoming a legal immigrant should be made easier, so they can be more productive parts of society. 12 million people adding to the economy is alot.

Yet if an illegal immigrant doesn't even try to learn the language and become a real citizen, then to hell with them.

Originally posted by Wesker
Really? They need to step on this problem already. If they can't be bothered to become citizens legally (At least attempt the process... and most of them don't even speak English. I learned that from three years in El Paso), why should anyone coddle them and say it's okay? It's illegal immigration. We as a nation have the right to stand up and say "Hey, this is enough." There's 12 million or so of them already over here. How many other first world countries have that many ILLEGAL immigrants? None. This is ridiculous. It isn't about them taking jobs we don't want; it's about the fact that you have millions of people living here who aren't US citizens. Do you think that if 12 million Romanians moved into France or Germany illegally, the latter would just be like "Okay" and let it slide? Nope. I mean, who's going to house all of these people? What if they deliver babies here so they can be citizens? Is that fair? Should they suddenly be granted rights in that case either?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have immigration, and I'm not saying this because it's primarily Mexicans coming over either; I'm saying that the enormous amount of undereducated, non-English speaking people pouring into a country that's already made the world landmark in national debt is a recipe for disastor. Obviously Mexico sucks so bad that 12 million of its former inhabitants and their descendants are in this country. Instead of fleeing, they should be back home trying to make things better. This is not a get out of jail free card... You come over here and get a job illegally, live here illegally, and most reap the benefits of being in the US and forms of aid, etc... That's not fair to the rest of us. I'm pretty sure if we sent over enormous groups of undereducated, English speaking individuals who demanded classes be taught in English, signs and driver's tests be in English, that Mexico celebrate the Fourth of July, etc. White History month... Please. That wouldn't fly two seconds in any other nation in the world. Why should we take up a standard that no one else will?

I say let's make the process available for those who do intend to stay here. They should have to know English because it IS the language on the money, and the damn Constitution is written in it, as are all the damn laws in the country. They should maintain consistant residence for their first few years in the country, and they should have to prove that they're getting a job and trying to maintain a home. The rest who fail to reach that level of commitment to becoming Americans can go home in droves.

What he said.

well have fun chasing down 12 million people.

Originally posted by manny321
well have fun chasing down 12 million people.

Catching the illegal immigrants would be no problem. Containing the situation when it finally gets out of hand should be the concern.

A civil war may result. Riots, chaos. It would be fatal. But who knows.

12 million illegal aliens plus the illegal employers.....................I prefer the idea we just annex Mexico to the USA and let them live in our newest state.

Originally posted by soleran30
12 million illegal aliens plus the illegal employers.....................I prefer the idea we just annex Mexico to the USA and let them live in our newest state.

Not a bad idea...in a perfect world. And don't you mean re-annex?

Originally posted by soleran30
12 million illegal aliens plus the illegal employers.....................I prefer the idea we just annex Mexico to the USA and let them live in our newest state.

Why annex another country? It would simply mean more borders that we don't look after? Illegal employers are an issue. However, what happens when the employer is as easily fooled as the government that serves them? This point of view also serves the people who support racism as a motivation for more strict laws and regulations. It isn't just the Mexican nationals that are making it into this country illegally.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Why annex another country? It would simply mean more borders that we don't look after? Illegal employers are an issue. However, what happens when the employer is as easily fooled as the government that serves them? This point of view also serves the people who support racism as a motivation for more strict laws and regulations. It isn't just the Mexican nationals that are making it into this country illegally.


Well mine was a post of slight levity.....................I want mexico for another state like I want a well never mind

Is it a bootheel for racism? Perhaps there are some that will use it as a tool to facilitate that means, however when I look at it from the illegal part it pisses me off.

They cross illegally and get caught they get deported (after they get food and shelter which they already have a hard time getting.) Now if I as a US citizen commit a fellony I am foocked.............make the ones in the US learn English and our culture and bust their ass to live here after 4 or 5 years let them stay if they can do it right.

Originally posted by soleran30
bust their ass to live here after 4 or 5 years let them stay if they can do it right.


yeah, but right is subjective. I'm second generation. That means, for our viewing audience, that my father was the first born here. His parents spoke German-Swiss his whole life. They knew English, but only because they knew it before they came here. But this country wasn't founded ON one race/language/culture. Despite it being "founded" by one "race/language/culture". But they founded this country, maybe with no one else in mind, but they didn't word it that way. And when they did, it has since been found unconstitutional. So, we have only tomorrow to deal with, not yesterday.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
It's really not about whether they are Latino or not, they're illegal immigrants. "Illegal" being the key word there. What I think should be done is that becoming a legal immigrant should be made easier, so they can be more productive parts of society. 12 million people adding to the economy is alot.

Yet if an illegal immigrant doesn't even try to learn the language and become a real citizen, then to hell with them.

Yes, immigrants should learn English. If a person decides to become the citizen or resident of another country, than they should learn the language of the land. If I ever decide to move to South Korea, you can bet that I'll be learning Hangul (Korean; I picked up quite a bit when I was in the Army).

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
yeah, but right is subjective. I'm second generation. That means, for our viewing audience, that my father was the first born here. His parents spoke German-Swiss his whole life. They knew English, but only because they knew it before they came here. But this country wasn't founded ON one race/language/culture. Despite it being "founded" by one "race/language/culture". But they founded this country, maybe with no one else in mind, but they didn't word it that way. And when they did, it has since been found unconstitutional. So, we have only tomorrow to deal with, not yesterday.


Yes which is why you being "only" second generation certainly isn't in question about your freedoms or liberty's or citizenship. Which is why I specify illegal immigrants and not citizens that came through Liberty Island symbolically speaking. The situation we deal with today is different then yesterday and we need different answers.

When someone works for something the perceived value tends to be higher because now they place a value on their work and effort. Which is what should be happening for most immigrants to become citizens today. I certainly don't want outlandish fees placed on struggling immigrants however there should be work for "USA" and not just themselves in coming here.

Honestly, I don't think congress is going to do anything. Eitherway there is no right answer. (what i thnk @least) I know the House is more strict on the issue, they want to build a fence along the mexican border, and they want (or have passed) to make it a felony to come in here illegally and/or help an illegal. Now... they say its to protect our conuntries from terrorist.... but didnt the hijikars come through Canada? Why not build a border up there too since we're at it? The senate doesnt know what they want, Guest Worker program is on the table, there are talks of amnesty and making those 11 mill+ legal, proposals to give out more green cards or whatever. I don't think it's right to make those illegal immigrants all of the sudden legal. It's not fair for those who came he the right way, who have wasted alot of time and money. My parents came here illegally and so I do sympathize, but that isn't the answer. Guest worker program I thnk will only bring more people, and i dunno what if those people dont want to go back after times up? Wont they just stay.... and no1 will do anything about it... like having a green card and its expired, its not like the next day some1 is going to be knocking at your door and ready to deport you. One the plans, I heard, is for those 11+ mill illegals have to pay $2,000.00, take classes in english, go through a background check, and live here atleast 7 years to gain resedency, now I think that's resonable! What do you guys think?

"One the plans, I heard, is for those 11+ mill illegals have to pay $2,000.00, take classes in english, go through a background check, and live here atleast 7 years to gain resedency, now I think that's resonable! What do you guys think?"

Yes

Originally posted by soleran30
Yes which is why you being "only" second generation certainly isn't in question about your freedoms or liberty's or citizenship. Which is why I specify illegal immigrants and not citizens that came through Liberty Island symbolically speaking. The situation we deal with today is different then yesterday and we need different answers.

When someone works for something the perceived value tends to be higher because now they place a value on their work and effort. Which is what should be happening for most immigrants to become citizens today. I certainly don't want outlandish fees placed on struggling immigrants however there should be work for "USA" and not just themselves in coming here.

I can't disagree with that. But, it is unreasonable to expect illegal immigrants to work "for the people", when we can't even get our own government to work "for the people". But, I suppose that's another thread.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I can't disagree with that. But, it is unreasonable to expect illegal immigrants to work "for the people", when we can't even get our own government to work "for the people". But, I suppose that's another thread.


Well I didn't mean like work socially for us as in volunteer work.

One the plans, I heard, is for those 11+ mill illegals have to pay $2,000.00, take classes in english, go through a background check, and live here atleast 7 years to gain resedency, now I think that's resonable! What do you guys think?

as per XxILuvVegetaxX ............

what she said is more in line with my expectations as well.

Originally posted by soleran30
Well I didn't mean like work socially for us as in volunteer work.

One the plans, I heard, is for those 11+ mill illegals have to pay $2,000.00, take classes in english, go through a background check, and live here atleast 7 years to gain resedency, now I think that's resonable! What do you guys think?

as per XxILuvVegetaxX ............

what she said is more in line with my expectations as well.

I didn't mean "socially" either. I mean "for the people", as in "of the people, by the people and for the people."

Okay...I'm not an illegal nor am I mexican...my father came here legally from cuba....but I notice that the racism is pretty much targeted at mexicans and anyone looking mexican.....i think its unfair to just say "okay all you damn illegal immigrnats get the f@!# out a here"....but I also think it is a stupid choice to just rally in the streets and protest about wanting citizen ship,licenses and work permits......I think they just make it worst for themselves by doing that actually....and I also notice that no ones telling all the so called white immigrants from european countries to get the f@#$ out.....I wonder what that would mean....but like the hot chick guy was sayijng on jay leno last night...america needs it's immigrants.....what would we do with out them.....and if they all left who would do their jobs.....I dont see anyone offering to work in a grape field picking fruit...or some other job that i know no one else wants

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
There's nothing "wrong" per se; they're impoverished people who are willing to do bottom feeder work for shit pay. They're doing it to support their family. I do think that if you're that poor, you shouldn't have like 7 or 8 kids.

I have the Mexican flag on the front of my ride, but it has nothing to do with national affiliation; its in recognition of heritage and cultural pride, ese. Its no different than white people who have the Irish or Italian flag on their car.

Where are you from, Wesker?

Well, it's as much national affiliation as it is heritage and culture, though. Mexico has a lot of history, and I think it's a real shame that instead of the state progressing, it's turned out like it has. Fleeing to American illegally to me is running from the problems, not addressing it. Like I said, I could see if it were some totalitarian regime where soldiers with machine gunners shot down children stealing bread to feed their families, but it's Mexico. Granted, places like Juarez make Mexico seem almost third world, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Btw, I'm American.

Originally posted by Espantada23
Okay...I'm not an illegal nor am I mexican...my father came here legally from cuba....but I notice that the racism is pretty much targeted at mexicans and anyone looking mexican.....i think its unfair to just say "okay all you damn illegal immigrnats get the f@!# out a here"....but I also think it is a stupid choice to just rally in the streets and protest about wanting citizen ship,licenses and work permits......I think they just make it worst for themselves by doing that actually....and I also notice that no ones telling all the so called white immigrants from european countries to get the f@#$ out.....I wonder what that would mean....but like the hot chick guy was sayijng on jay leno last night...america needs it's immigrants.....what would we do with out them.....and if they all left who would do their jobs.....I dont see anyone offering to work in a grape field picking fruit...or some other job that i know no one else wants

There hasn't been a surplus of white, European immigrants in over a hundred years. Well over 80% of immigration comes from Mexico and other Latin nations. And that's just legal immigration. This isn't a putsch to get them all out of the nation; at least, not from where I'm standing. But I'm not seeing a reason why ANYONE has a right to be in this country illegally, regardless of race or creed. Mexicans and Latins think we're picking on them... Erm, well... They ARE the majority of illegal immigrants! Instead of making it into a racial issue, see it objectively.

I guess what we should really do is make it as easy to immigrate as it was in the days of Ellis Island. What we really need is to know who's coming over, why, and where they are.

The real reason that it's a hotbutton to the anti-illegal immigration people is that they (I include myself) are scared s**tless that some Al Qaeda people are gonna fake like they're just another part of the crowd coming across the border and we'll end up minus LA or New York.

So I say let the honest ones in. We ID them, run background checks, whatever.

Remember what the sign on the Statue of Liberty says.

We (the U.S.) welcome legal immigrants not crimaliens.

I'm Latino but we all should do it the right way and not stigmatize one another with being law breakers. No race would want to be known for that.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm all for illegal immigration policies. For me we should keep the productive immigrant and kick out all the rowdy and abusive immigrants that come to this country to commit crimes.

Didn't you guys know that Scarface is an actual critique of the immigrants? Whereas films like El Norte are an illustration of the productive immigrant that comes to this country? Isn't it odd Scarface is more known that El Norte? And yes, El Norte is powerful film. I suggest you watch it.

I also support the students that have been marching to voice their opinions in a peaceful and orderly behavior. However, the students that are just walking out of school to get on freeways and march in the middle of a busy work day SHOULD be arrested and the parents should be give strict penalties for not keeping their children in order.

I agree.

My mom said something funny about the students portesting. She said that she thinks most of them are probably just doing it as an excuse to no be in school, and that most of them probably don't even know what the hell they're actually protesting for or even care, they just want an excuse to not go to school.

Considering the high amount of idiots in our current scholastic system, I don't disagree with her.

I love my mommy.

Originally posted by BackFire
I love my mommy.

I love her, too.

As for illegal immigrants in the US, I've been one! Hoo-ha!

I think the US should adopt a plan similar to that which is in place in the EU. The economic sustainability of migrants moving to the US should be stringent, so it doesn't put even more pressure on an already virtually non-existent welfare system. Apart from that, it should also place some English language criteria to be tested, as this would promote an easier assimilation into the community and culture.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I love her, too.


Awesome!


........Hey, wait.

Are you my dad?

Originally posted by BackFire
........Hey, wait.

Are you my dad?

Yes and No. I'm the postman (mailman).

Well Im not saying yeah just let em all in or yeah just kick em all out,but we need better immigration laws I like docb77's idea and it is scary as hell to think what kind of crazy criminal's are sneaking in here too

It hasn't been done yet...but it must....might as well get it over with...

Dey tuuk oour Jeobs!!!

Originally posted by BackFire
It hasn't been done yet...but it must....might as well get it over with...

Dey tuuk oour Jeobs!!!

eets not ah tumah!

whatever that all meant

Originally posted by Espantada23
whatever that all meant


Ahnold dear, Ahnold.

Catch up, we'll wait.

oh why thank you for waiting for me to catch up with the rest of ya

Originally posted by BackFire
I agree.

My mom said something funny about the students portesting. She said that she thinks most of them are probably just doing it as an excuse to no be in school, and that most of them probably don't even know what the hell they're actually protesting for or even care, they just want an excuse to not go to school.

Considering the high amount of idiots in our current scholastic system, I don't disagree with her.

I love my mommy.

Been there, done that.

protesting without caring why...not your mommy...

Originally posted by Lightningrod
nothing wrong with having mexican pride


sombrero2

Originally posted by BackFire
It hasn't been done yet...but it must....might as well get it over with...

Dey tuuk oour Jeobs!!!

Yes, lets all involve in homosexual sex so they go away with....

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
eets not ah tumah!

Get down!

Get een dah choppah!

Yea

Bump

They should just get rid of borders and stuff. Borders are lame. All they do is surround things and stuff. So very lame.

Originally posted by Tired Hiker
They should just get rid of borders and stuff. Borders are lame. All they do is surround things and stuff. So very lame.
Agree....lame...

Originally posted by Tired Hiker
They should just get rid of borders and stuff. Borders are lame. All they do is surround things and stuff. So very lame.


That's very Utopian of you, but not very realistic. Borders exist, never the less. And for a reason, never the less.

My friend's take on the situation.

Well at least he is not holding a semi automatic and standing in the American/Mexican boader like those Minuteman Project guys.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well at least he is not holding a semi automatic and standing in the American/Mexican boader like those Minuteman Project guys.

I heard that a few of them were carrying, but I hadn't heard of any shots fired. Right or wrong you've gotta admire their dedication. I can't think of something I'd give that much of my free time to.

I'm all for making illegal immigration a felony. If people wanna enter this country the legal way, fine. People entering our countries should respect our laws, not ignore them. These people are starting off on the wrong foot here in this country. It shows these people are willing to break the law to enter this country. What's stopping them from breaking other laws when their here? They don't care about the hundreds of thousands of people who obtain their papers legally to get into this country. What makes them so special. It took my sister-in-law a year and a half of paperwork and waiting to get into this country LEGALLY...

For those of you already here, what makes you so special my relatives in Asia have too wait years to get into this country legally while you simply walk across our border's? What if something happens to you here in the states? You get mugged, raped, or a person you know was murdered. Who are you going too? The police? The FBI? Let me tell you something. No one will help you because no one will know your here. If you report something that's fine and dandy, but that just earns you a one way ticket back to where you came from for being a good samaritan.

It's a shame I don't live close to the border. I live here in cozy Northern Nevada. Or I'd be standing right next to our boys at border patrol volunteering my time to help police it. With a semi-automatic rifle.

Originally posted by docb77
I heard that a few of them were carrying, but I hadn't heard of any shots fired. Right or wrong you've gotta admire their dedication. I can't think of something I'd give that much of my free time to.


you mean like open thought or unpoliticized consideration of a situation?

Originally posted by docb77
Right or wrong you've gotta admire their dedication. I can't think of something I'd give that much of my free time to.

Not really...they complain about illegal immigrant taking their rightful jobs away from them. Shouldn't they be working instead of just standing around the border doing nothing but wave their guns around? yeah, those pesky illegals keep taking away our jobs....

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
How many Americans want to be cooks, dishwashers, farm workers, busboys, etc? I do. Why? So I have something to do during and after I get out of school before I move on to other things.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well at least he is not holding a semi automatic and standing in the American/Mexican boader like those Minuteman Project guys.


Not in THAT picture.

Originally posted by docb77
Right or wrong you've gotta admire their dedication.

Rather than castigate their intolerance and stupidity? No thanks.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
I do. Why? So I have something to do during and after I get out of school before I move on to other things.


You're right. The illegal immigrants do , often. take jobs that other Americans don't want. But, the american with two screaming mouths will consider the situation differently. And, those who think that only Mexicans will take the job of fruit picker or paper bag hander lightly aren't giving the American worler enough credit. It's just too bad that the American worker ins't wholly comprised of 14 year olds who have gotten used to teh XBox. Taking jobs away isn't the point. Being in the country, illegally, is the point. Not paying income taxes is the point. Not paying sales tax on teh gameboy they just purchased.

It's only a few day till congress decides whether to pass the immigration law.

The outcome would be "significant" in both a very good and a very bad way depending on who you are because everyone in the U.S will be affected by this decision dramatically, directly and indirectly.

It'll definitely change things, i think. Whether it's for better of for worse, we'll just have to wait and see this week when Capitol Hill makes their final decision on the matter.

Good point. I'm a waiter, but its just temporary to help pay my way through college. But don't nobody wanna do that for a living.

What about teenage American boys. Black dudes, whiteboys, whatever. They can do it. They need money. What about homeless American citizens. they'd do it. Homelessness is one of the biggest problems in this country because there are no "jobs". There are jobs, there just taken up by illegals.

Mad heads are jobless and would take those jobs. Probably millions of (american) people.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Good point. I'm a waiter, but its just temporary to help pay my way through college. But don't nobody wanna do that for a living.

I was a full-time waiter for 2 years after high school. In those two years I grossed nearly 50 G's. After I got my associates degree I took a job less than what I was making as a waiter. Go figure.

I should have stayed with the food industry. I'd take a waiter's job any day. It's good part time cash if you know what your doing. It also requires you to speak a good amount of ENGLISH... Usually illegal immigrant take more back of the house jobs. Dish washing, busing, cooking, etc...

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
I was a full-time waiter for 2 years after high school. In those two years I grossed nearly 50 G's. After I got my associates degree I took a job less than what I was making as a waiter. Go figure.

I should have stayed with the food industry. I'd take a waiter's job any day. It's good part time cash if you know what your doing. It also requires you to speak a good amount of ENGLISH... Usually illegal immigrant take more back of the house jobs. Dish washing, busing, cooking, etc...

50K?????

Where were you a waiter at, dude?

I wait and bartend in a Thai restaraunt--I only make 3.50, but tips are where its at! On a given friday nite--I'll make 150-200 in tips (mostly at the bar).

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
50K?????

Where were you a waiter at, dude?

I wait and bartend in a Thai restaraunt--I only make 3.50, but tips are where its at! On a given friday nite--I'll make 150-200 in tips (mostly at the bar).

I was a waiter in Hawaii. On Maui, in Lahaina. As long as you provide good customer service, you always get tips. My tips each week were usually double my weekly salary.

I'm on my best behavior to everyone when I work the front of the house. Except to Europeans. Those bastards don't tip.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
I was a waiter in Hawaii. On Maui, in Lahaina. As long as you provide good customer service, you always get tips. My tips each week were usually double my weekly salary.

I'm on my best behavior to everyone when I work the front of the house. Except to Europeans. Those bastards don't tip.

Probably because Europe is almost completely socialized and they think you're making as much as them. European economics suck. Those protests over the ability to fire someone is a good example. At least here if we decide we don't want to hire illegals and we find out we made a mistake we can send them packing. Over there? get out the lawyers or checkbook or put them in a corner doing nothing.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
I was a waiter in Hawaii. On Maui, in Lahaina. As long as you provide good customer service, you always get tips. My tips each week were usually double my weekly salary.

I'm on my best behavior to everyone when I work the front of the house. Except to Europeans. Those bastards don't tip.

So yer from Laihaina, braddah? I'm from Aiea! You live Mainland now, or wot?

btw: Are u HA-Y-N?

I like the music in that e-toys commercial sang by that fat dead Hawaiian dude back in like 2000.

Just the first 9 seconds of it though. He had a long name.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I like the music in that e-toys commercial sang by that fat dead Hawaiian dude back in like 2000.

Just the first 9 seconds of it though. He had a long name.

Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, RIP

Originally posted by docb77
Probably because Europe is almost completely socialized and they think you're making as much as them. European economics suck.

No, they suck. Really picky, and even though most restaurants in Amercia charge 15% gratuity for 4 or more guests automatically, every European I have served have adamantly refused to pay gratuity. They don't think it's necessary.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
So yer from Laihaina, braddah? I'm from Aiea! You live Mainland now, or wot?

btw: Are u HA-Y-N?

Brah, I was born and raised on Maui. Now I stay living Nevada. By Reno. I'm not HA-Y-N by blood, but my wife get some HA-Y-N in her.

I is one FBI. Full Blooded Ilocano. I one flip. My wife one mixed plate.

WTF? I was reading that they might legalize the 12 million illegal immigrants already here. They said the cost would be extremely large and costly to remove the illegal immigrants from the US.

How fu<king fair is that to the people who filed their paperwork and all that to get into this country legally? Those who had to wait a year or two to actually get into this country legally...

Giving 12 million people who practically committed misdemeanor's legal immunity and amnesty. Horsesh!t

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
WTF? I was reading that they might legalize the 12 million illegal immigrants already here. They said the cost would be extremely large and costly to remove the illegal immigrants from the US.

How fu<king fair is that to the people who filed their paperwork and all that to get into this country legally? Those who had to wait a year or two to actually get into this country legally...

Giving 12 million people who practically committed misdemeanor's legal immunity and amnesty. Horsesh!t

research it. It's not the first time they proposed as much. Bush did it in his first election.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
WTF? I was reading that they might legalize the 12 million illegal immigrants already here. They said the cost would be extremely large and costly to remove the illegal immigrants from the US.

How fu<king fair is that to the people who filed their paperwork and all that to get into this country legally? Those who had to wait a year or two to actually get into this country legally...

Giving 12 million people who practically committed misdemeanor's legal immunity and amnesty. Horsesh!t

Oh well, I find that a decent idea, as long as immigration is loosened as well...


Also a pretty liberal idea for a neo-con government.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
WTF? I was reading that they might legalize the 12 million illegal immigrants already here. They said the cost would be extremely large and costly to remove the illegal immigrants from the US.

How fu<king fair is that to the people who filed their paperwork and all that to get into this country legally? Those who had to wait a year or two to actually get into this country legally...

Giving 12 million people who practically committed misdemeanor's legal immunity and amnesty. Horsesh!t

It's for the votes, DUHR. They've even admitted it all over the news, they don't want to lose the hispanic vote, which is what kicking 12 million hispanics out of the country will do.

I agree with you though. It's called illegal immigration for a reason.

I know it's for the votes but that's still full of sh!t. There were a few locals in my town who I found out were illegal immigrants. They were working for a local farm here and getting paid under the table cash. I've already reported them to INS in a discreet manor. I can gladly say their not here anymore. The local farm owner was not too happy, since he too was an illegal immigrant. He has kids here who were born here, so their practically American citizens. But they still deported his ass back to Mexico after 22 years of being here illegally in the states.

Good for them. It's not fu<king fair my relatives had to file an bunch of paperwork and wait years to get into this country. As soon as I find more I won't hesitate in reporting them to INS.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
I know it's for the votes but that's still full of sh!t. There were a few locals in my town who I found out were illegal immigrants. They were working for a local farm here and getting paid under the table cash. I've already reported them to INS in a discreet manor. I can gladly say their not here anymore. The local farm owner was not too happy, since he too was an illegal immigrant. He has kids here who were born here, so their practically American citizens. But they still deported his ass back to Mexico after 22 years of being here illegally in the states.

Good for them. It's not fu<king fair my relatives had to file an bunch of paperwork and wait years to get into this country. As soon as I find more I won't hesitate in reporting them to INS.


LOL funny but wrong on so many levels

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL funny but wrong on so many levels

I know I shouldn't be laughing... But they don't belong here. Not like that anyway. They want to enter this country, they should enter this country legally. I'm all for legal immigration.

Most of them are gonna say: Oh, um, I got deported and I can't legally get back into the country for years.

Then I will say to those people: Well, you shouldn't have entered our country illegally in the first place. Stop your whining you only have yourself to blame.

Then I'll do the banana dance

band dance

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
I know it's for the votes but that's still full of sh!t. There were a few locals in my town who I found out were illegal immigrants. They were working for a local farm here and getting paid under the table cash. I've already reported them to INS in a discreet manor. I can gladly say their not here anymore. The local farm owner was not too happy, since he too was an illegal immigrant. He has kids here who were born here, so their practically American citizens. But they still deported his ass back to Mexico after 22 years of being here illegally in the states.

Good for them. It's not fu<king fair my relatives had to file an bunch of paperwork and wait years to get into this country. As soon as I find more I won't hesitate in reporting them to INS.

You, sir, deserve to die in my book...

Originally posted by Bardock42
You, sir, deserve to die in my book...


It must be a german thing.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You, sir, deserve to die in my book...

For what?

It's their own fu<king fault for being in this country illegally.

I am also not directing my message to a certain race. I'm directing my message to all ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS... It's just that most of the illegal immigrants here in the United States are from Mexico. Their are a few from Canada. The rest are from other various countries.

Deserve to die? Pfftt... #$%^ off.

Oh not because you turned them in, they broke the law, so it makes sense. It's just that you enjoy that too much....

So your Relatives came to the US as well? What's the big difference? They filled in Paperwork...yeah, most illegal immigrants would probably not be accepted in the US? Is that fair? I don't think so, I think a decent Hardworking Mexican deserves the benefits of the US just as much as you do.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh not because you turned them in, they broke the law, so it makes sense. It's just that you enjoy that too much....

So your Relatives came to the US as well? What's the big difference? They filled in Paperwork...yeah, most illegal immigrants would probably not be accepted in the US? Is that fair? I don't think so, I think a decent Hardworking Mexican deserves the benefits of the US just as much as you do.


Come to America and vote on it then I KNOW most mexicans (that are illegal) pay no fudg'n tax's so I pay fo them get the fudge out Adam enjoys it to much however they are freeloading off me.

Originally posted by soleran30
Come to America and vote on it then I KNOW most mexicans (that are illegal) pay no fudg'n tax's so I pay fo them get the fudge out Adam enjoys it to much however they are freeloading off me.

How do you pay for them?


And if you are worried about that, why not make them full American Citizens? They will pay taxes as well then....

Uh what are you attempting to say?

Originally posted by soleran30
Uh what are you attempting to say? You said you pay for them, I asked you: How?

Originally posted by Bardock42
How do you pay for them?


And if you are worried about that, why not make them full American Citizens? They will pay taxes as well then....

Make them citizens after they break a law? Why? How bout all those taxes they didn't pay while they were here? If I don't pay my taxes for a couple years I'll go to jail. In a sense, their not just breaking one law crossing into this country illegally, their committing tax evasion as well working for under the table cash.

If we do make them legal citizens, we are rewarding 12 million people with legal citizenship for breaking the law...

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Make them citizens after they break a law? Why? How bout all those taxes they didn't pay while they were here? If I don't pay my taxes for a couple years I'll go to jail. In a sense, their not just breaking one law crossing into this country illegally, their committing tax evasion as well working for under the table cash.

If we do make them legal citizens, we are rewarding 12 million people with legal citizenship for breaking the law...

True, they don't pay taxes....because they are not allowed to.
Make them legal and they will....they are here anyways, so why not make them pay taxes as well?

Originally posted by docb77
I suppose there's another answer. Make it a civil matter. If a someone who's in the country wants a job held by an illegal - it has to be given them or the hiring party can be sued.

You think there'd be any lawsuits?

Problem with this idea - it doesn't account for those crossing the borders for purposes other than employment (you know those nefarious, terrorist/drug smugling type purposes).

The last thing your country needs is more lawsuits!

Has anyone heard of the kids walking out of their school to protest?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You said you pay for them, I asked you: How?


Tax's

Originally posted by soleran30
Tax's

So the only problem is that they don't pay taxes? (Well to be honest I'd be more annoyed with my tax money being payed on stupid wars, but well...that'S just me)

Anyways, why do they not pay taxe? Because they are Illegal Immigrants. So, is the solution to find them all an deport them (with tax money9 absolutely knowing that they (or another immigrant) will be back in, well, roughly an hour....or make them citizens and let them pay taxes as well?

Originally posted by X-Woman
Has anyone heard of the kids walking out of their school to protest?

Yes. Kids who don't even know what the hell their debating about walking out of class do these demonstrations. Kids always want excuses to walk out of class. Then again their are kids who know what's going on. Some kids fear that their parents will be deported. Well it's their own fault again for coming here illegally.

It's not okay to come to America illegally. We have to send a message to the rest of the world that America has laws.

Ok... Let's say a bill goes through that makes 12 million outlaws legal citizens. People from all over the world will think:

Hey, it's okay to go to America illegally!!! They'll make us citizens eventually!!! We don't have to pay taxes the first few years while were here in America. They won't know were here!!!

Bullshit

Thousands Rally for Immigrants Across U.S.

Mon. Apr. 10

ATLANTA - Thousands of demonstrators wearing white T-shirts and waving signs and American flags filled the streets of an immigrant neighborhood Monday for the first of dozens of marches planned in a national day of action billed as a "campaign for immigrants' dignity." The two-mile Atlanta march was in support of immigrant rights nationally as well as in protest of state legislation awaiting Gov. Sonny Perdue's signature. If signed, it would require that adults seeking many state-administered benefits prove they are in the country legally.

Originally posted by PVS

Right-wing radio host Brian James of KFYI in Arizona

Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard

I can't stand either one of them. In fact, there's a billboard of Brian James' mug across the street from my place of business.

There was a rally outside of my college today. It was only about two dozen people or so and lasted about a half hour at most.

Pfft. weak friggin rally.

Funny thing about rallys at schools is that if you have 2 rallys, one for and one against, a lot of the same people would be at both rallys.

kids just want an excuse to get out of class.

Originally posted by docb77
Funny thing about rallys at schools is that if you have 2 rallys, one for and one against, a lot of the same people would be at both rallys.

kids just want an excuse to get out of class.

You don't need an excuse in college. Just walk out, or don't even go.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So the only problem is that they don't pay taxes? (Well to be honest I'd be more annoyed with my tax money being payed on stupid wars, but well...that'S just me)

Anyways, why do they not pay taxe? Because they are Illegal Immigrants. So, is the solution to find them all an deport them (with tax money9 absolutely knowing that they (or another immigrant) will be back in, well, roughly an hour....or make them citizens and let them pay taxes as well? Coming to america illegally is not that easy.. and it's not unlikely that it would take them years to come back, if they ever did.

While I don't support deporting them, completely opening our boarders to any and everyone is out of the question.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
There was a rally outside of my college today. It was only about two dozen people or so and lasted about a half hour at most.

Pfft. weak friggin rally.

Where do you go, Arachnoidfreak?

about the protesters: I don't think illegal immigrants have the right to demand anything because they are illegal; which i know many of you guys mention already. if they want to come here to work and live here then just do it the legal way. sure it might take long but in my opinion its worth it bacause its better for them and for this country. like if they were legal immigrants they wont have to worry about getting paid below min/wage, getting deported, etc...so yeah, they should get a visa! but what got kind of confused was the burning of the American flag! why? why would they burn the flag that represents the country THEY are trying to live in!?!! and i will have to agree with the tired hiker's mother...most of them had no idea why they were doing it!

oh, why not just fix the problems in their countries?

Originally posted by loner hill
about the protesters: I don't think illegal immigrants have the right to demand anything because they are illegal; which i know many of you guys mention already. if they want to come here to work and live here then just do it the legal way. sure it might take long but in my opinion its worth it bacause its better for them and for this country. like if they were legal immigrants they wont have to worry about getting paid below min/wage, getting deported, etc...so yeah, they should get a visa! but what got kind of confused was the burning of the American flag! why? why would they burn the flag that represents the country THEY are trying to live in!?!! and i will have to agree with the tired hiker's mother...most of them had no idea why they were doing it!


oh it was backfire's mother. . .ahahah

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Coming to america illegally is not that easy.. and it's not unlikely that it would take them years to come back, if they ever did.

While I don't support deporting them, completely opening our boarders to any and everyone is out of the question.

Why?

You ask a lot of questions ya know...like why and prove it.........lol


*leaves now*

Originally posted by debbiejo
You ask a lot of questions ya know...like why and prove it.........lol


*leaves now*

You talk a lot of Bullshit ya know...like God is in us all, and my pillow is Satan....lolz

*prays she'll never return*

I never said my pillow was Satan............. ............Though is would make for an erotic night.............hahaha

Originally posted by debbiejo
I never said my pillow was Satan............. ............Though is would make for an erotic night.............hahaha

Hahaha, yeah, very funny, would you leave the grown ups alone now?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why? Cause that would drastically increase the supply of labor, which would drive down wages and raise the unemployment rate.

Not to mention increase the already too prevalent amount of freeloaders..

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Cause that would drastically increase the supply of labor, which would drive down wages and raise the unemployment rate.

Not to mention increase the already too prevalent amount of freeloaders..

Hmm, how many more people do you think would come to your country?

Here's an excellent article on the topic of immigration by the always excellent, Fareed Zakaria:

To Become An American

Particularly interesting is this fact:

"The income gap between the United States and Mexico is the largest between any two contiguous countries in the world." - David Kennedy, Stanford University

The result of this huge disparity is that it produces a massive demand in the US and a massive supply from Mexico. It seems to me that if America needs to use these people, then they should be offered an easier route into becoming part of the country they help build.

Isn't that obvious?

They are called illegal immigrants for a reason. I do think that we should give them the opportunity to stay in the USA.

Take the History Class's
Learn to speak English
Have Employeers Pay tax's to employee you
Pay their tax's for the priveldges they currently use in the USA
Throw any illegal immigrants out if they have had a criminal record (aside from the immigration.)

Originally posted by Soleran
They are called illegal immigrants for a reason. I do think that we should give them the opportunity to stay in the USA.

Take the History Class's
Learn to speak English
Have Employeers Pay tax's to employee you
Pay their tax's for the priveldges they currently use in the USA
Throw any illegal immigrants out if they have had a criminal record (aside from the immigration.)

I agree.

If they knew how to read and write English in the first place, they probably would not have crossed into our borders illegally. It's usually the uneducated who seek the easy way out.

ack! still sounds like an amnesty to me. When you're at the back of the line for the rollercoaster at disneyland, do you just let anyone cut in front of you or just go up to the front of the line? That's what illegal immigration amounts to. They are literally "butters" as we used to say in grade school. What we need is to have a good way to point them to the end of the line.

"Hey, the line's over there buddy!"

-edit-

I wouldn't be against making the line move faster of course.

I live in Oklahoma and i can tell you from personal experience that illegal immigrants specifically Mexicans from Mexico do not take bottom feeder jobs. There is alot of poverty in this area of Oklahoma and the Mexicans have the better paying jobs like refinery workers, construction workers, and factory jobs. They may not sound like the good jobs but around here they are. While most young people around here have to live off their parents income because there is simply no work for them! I see that all the time. Now why should we accept that. People that already live here have enough problems. The poverty in our lower income neighborhoods and our black communities should be a priority because we were here first us...AMERICANS start caring for your fellow americans who are suffering. We are the ones in the small communities who really have to deal with job loss and the nuisance of illegal immigrants. They are different form us. They are lazy why do people think they are so hard working?? THEY ARE NOT!! TRUST ME!! I see them all over here all the time I have to work with them. My husband is always complaining of their incompetence and laziness. I promise I am not saying this to be mean it is they way it is people wake up they are destroying our American way of life. This is your country and mine if you are an American Mexican, Italian, African i don't care what color you are. Stand up for your country and realize that our resource and our very way of life Will be diminished. Make them work for and better their own country the way our grandfathers and great grandfathers and great-great grandfathers have done for ours.

Originally posted by pro-American25
I live in Oklahoma and i can tell you from personal experience that illegal immigrants specifically Mexicans from Mexico do not take bottom feeder jobs. There is alot of poverty in this area of Oklahoma and the Mexicans have the better paying jobs like refinery workers, construction workers, and factory jobs. They may not sound like the good jobs but around here they are. While most young people around here have to live off their parents income because there is simply no work for them! I see that all the time. Now why should we accept that. People that already live here have enough problems. The poverty in our lower income neighborhoods and our black communities should be a priority because we were here first us...AMERICANS start caring for your fellow americans who are suffering. We are the ones in the small communities who really have to deal with job loss and the nuisance of illegal immigrants. They are different form us. They are lazy why do people think they are so hard working?? THEY ARE NOT!! TRUST ME!! I see them all over here all the time I have to work with them. My husband is always complaining of their incompetence and laziness. I promise I am not saying this to be mean it is they way it is people wake up they are destroying our American way of life. This is your country and mine if you are an American Mexican, Italian, African i don't care what color you are. Stand up for your country and realize that our resource and our very way of life Will be diminished. Make them work for and better their own country the way our grandfathers and great grandfathers and great-great grandfathers have done for ours.

See, I wonder then. If these are not "bottem feeder jobs", if they aren't low paying jobs that your average US citizen doesn't want, if the II are lazy and incompetent - why. are. they. hired??? I can understand a boss taking advantage of cheap labour and hiring them because they wont complain and are hard workers and so forth - but it makes no sense if they are paid a lot and not good workers.

But either way I still wouldn't attack the II. They take a chance for a better life like most people would if in their posistion. The people who deserve your wrath are the bosses who take advantage of them. The ones who hire them cheap. The ones who hire them expensive. These Americans are the ones who deserve to be punished for taking advantage of everyone - including the US citizen. Including the II who simply take the chance when it is offered to them by corrupt, greedy or just incompentent bosses eager to use them.

I suppose if I were into stereotyping/generalization (I try to stay away from it, but what can you do in a thread like this) I'd say that many latinos I've seen work very hard on the job, but seem to go catatonic on their own time. I think that's what gives rise to both stereotypes.

A lot of people at these protests carry the Mexican flag or a flag of their home country. That seems kind of odd. If all these illegal immigrants wanted to become Americans, they would at least wave the American flag showing support for America and it's ideals.

Not wave the flag of your home country in a foreign land. At least wave them side by side with an American flag. Sheesh... That's like me stepping into into Mexico or Canada and demanding amnesty and citizenship waving my American flag proudly.

Oh, they should also speak English at these protests. It would help their case only so slightly. But it would help nonetheless.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
A lot of people at these protests carry the Mexican flag or a flag of their home country. That seems kind of odd. If all these illegal immigrants wanted to become Americans, they would at least wave the American flag showing support for America and it's ideals.

Not wave the flag of your home country in a foreign land. At least wave them side by side with an American flag. Sheesh... That's like me stepping into into Mexico or Canada and demanding amnesty and citizenship waving my American flag proudly.

Oh, they should also speak English at these protests. It would help their case only so slightly. But it would help nonetheless.

I thnk the whole flag thing was misunderstood, I don't think they ment that as an insult to the US. I heard that in May theyre (illegal immigrants, and other immigrants) not going to show up to work and not buy anything, to show their influence over the economy.... and I thnk its stupid, they also talk about not buying from McDonalds, Sears, and these other major coporation when they all support them!!!! even said so publicly! rofl Then, they try to use Martin Luther King and Ceasar Chavez as examples and what not.... and if they knew anything about them, they both werent for illegal immigration, actually Chavez strongly opposed illegal immigration.... I just wish these ppl would use some common sense....

Well, this week is a seminal week in US history. The law will either be passed or vetoed this week.

Originally posted by XxILuvVegetaxX
I just wish these ppl would use some common sense....

word, then they wouldnt be illegal immigrants in the first place and none of this would be a problem

Look, I am all for controlling illegal immigration. But, one thing that has been, in my opinion...and by myself no less, due to lack of explaination, over looked is the truth of those illegal immigrant that are here under "legitimate" terms. There are MANY immigrants who have obtained illegal and flase social security numbers. THEY DO PAY TAXES, just as many as legal citizens. However, there are still a number that live on the fringes of society that do not. These are the illegal immigrants that I'm addressing. I should have made that more clear, and didn't realize I hadn't until the topic came back to teh top of the forum and had a chance to review it.

Every person that thinks the borders should be shut to any and all at teh brunt of a gun barrell, while talking out their ass about the strength on which this country was founded, should be kicked out for ignorance. As of yet, that's not illeagal.

There are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who are not tossing their tith into the pot. And they should be removed. Others who are living, more or less "legally" are already citizens of this country. I know a number of people with social security numbers who would better serve this country by selling their ss#'s to illegal immigrants.

Bottomline, if your in this country illegaly, you're breaking U.S. law. The same U.S law I'd get arrested for, as a tax paying American citizen, if I were to commit the same crime.

This law may pass and if not, prepare to replace our National Anthem with the song, "La Cucaracha".

Originally posted by FistOfThe North

This law may pass and if not, prepare to replace our National Anthem with the song, "La Cucaracha".

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Bottomline, if your in this country illegaly, you're breaking U.S. law. The same U.S law I'd get arrested for, as a tax paying American citizen, if I were to commit the same crime.

This law may pass and if not, prepare to replace our National Anthem with the song, "La Cucaracha".

Hey man, Im not Mexican, but that's a great song.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Hey man, Im not Mexican, but that's a great song.

It is.

What I want to know is why everyone is focusing on the people who are already here. What we really want is to keep bad guys from coming in, and in order to do that we need to know who's coming in. The assumption has to be that if you're circumventing the front door you're a bad guy. Not always true, but if we're gonna keep the bad guys out it's an assumption we have to make.

So we should control the borders first, and then we can figure out what to do with all the illegals.

Originally posted by docb77
then we can figure out what to do with all the illegals.

Make them legal, have em' pay taxes, and give them the exact same rights every other worker gets.

Originally posted by Echuu
Make them legal, have em' pay taxes, and give them the exact same rights every other worker gets.

I'm all for that, after they go through the same line that legal immigrants went through.

I find it sad that so many people ignore the illegal part of Illegal Immigration. And that those same people ask for Illegal Immigration to be made legal... but there is already a legal form of Illegal Immigration... called Legal Immigration.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
I find it sad that so many people ignore the illegal part of Illegal Immigration. And that those same people ask for Illegal Immigration to be made legal... but there is already a legal form of Illegal Immigration... called Legal Immigration.

Very good point.

Originally posted by docb77
I'm all for that, after they go through the same line that legal immigrants went through.

Exactly. It took my relatives years to get into this country legally... Look how the Mexican government are treating illegal immigrants in their country. If we Americans were to do the same to the illegal immigrants already here, most people thinking of crossing into our countries illegally would think twice.

http://www.wacotrib.com/world/content/shared-gen/ap/Latin_America_And_Caribbean/Mexico_Mistreating_Migrants.html

Mexico wants fair treatment and protection for those illegal immigrants here in the US. Too bad they don't practice what they preach.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
This law may pass and if not, prepare to replace our National Anthem with the song, "La Cucaracha".

There's an old Loony Tunes piece back in the 70's, where Speedy Gonzalez is singing that song. Who ever would've imagined that the Warner Bros. would refer to marijuana use?