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Who wins this?

Whilst Naga is more powerful than DN Luke (apparently), and Massassi can take down Jedi, so can the Slayer, and Shimarra could probably take down the Massassi as well.

I don't see a Sith sword getting through the bioengineered armor of the Vong.

It can only be driven into massive stone tables. Oh no, no way can it get through "superior" organic tech.

Lightsabers can easily pierce through stone tables, durasteel, diamon coated titanium, but can't penetrate Vong armour. A Sith sword sure as hell can't.

Lightsaber blades are not physical objects and thus do not cut in the same manner as a physical blade. That and Sadow can generate far more power with a sword (which has mass) than with a lightsaber (which doesn't).

I submit it's probably a lot easier to drive a Sith sword through vong armor than a lightsaber.

Originally posted by IKC
Lightsaber blades are not physical objects and thus do not cut in the same manner as a physical blade. That and Sadow can generate far more power with a sword (which has mass) than with a lightsaber (which doesn't).

I submit it's probably a lot easier to drive a Sith sword through vong armor than a lightsaber.

That's a good point. Something with weight behind it, being swung at the speed we see Sadow and Kressh swinging them is going to do a hell load of damage.

I would agree, even if it doesnt neccesary penetrate on one stroke, the force applied is enough to crack the Vong's internal parts resulting in internal injuries and/or incapitation.

Originally posted by Traya
That's a good point. Something with weight behind it, being swung at the speed we see Sadow and Kressh swinging them is going to do a hell load of damage. Also it is empowered by sith magic (his hands are all lightningy when he is fighting kreesh) so it will probably cut through the crab armor like a hot knife through butter.

After Shimrra and the slayer pwn their respective Massassi? I see Sadow going down. He can't use the Force against Shimrra, and the Overlord is probably as strong as he is. It helps that he has a three meter amphistaff that can spray acids, turns into a massive sword, or be used as a whip. Against that and Luke, I doubt he'd come out alive.

He can still indirectly attack them. Like obliterating the ground from beneath their feet...

The vong aren't outside of the force though. According to Verere and Luke, the jedi just cant sense them and cant use an attack precise enough to find the drop of the force they are and kill them. Naga sadow will probably be strong enough to find them in the force. It is like finding a straw of hay in the needle stack.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
The vong aren't outside of the force though. According to Verere and Luke, the jedi just cant sense them and cant use an attack precise enough to find the drop of the force they are and kill them. Naga sadow will probably be strong enough to find them in the force. It is like finding a straw of hay in the needle stack.

Um... but the Vong are outside the Force. Whoever said Naga had vongsense anyway?

What Faunus said, add the fact that the only one that has a defense against the Vong is his enemy in this battle.. Sadow goes down.

Originally posted by Rayvann
Um... but the Vong are outside the Force. Whoever said Naga had vongsense anyway? i havent finished the series yet but i am on remnant. I think vergere is right when she said they are inside the force but they are just to hard to sense. Naga is uber powerful and may be able to sense them and hurt them via the force.

You can't juse "sense" them because you are uber powerful with the force, especially since youre a sith. If anything Sadow has to spend time studying the enemy, he's no exception to the rule.

meh... he will the the ground out from under them.

Very unlikely, Sadow goes down after a long fight.

why is it unlikly?

What's the setting?

So what's he going to do exactly? Swipe the ground from under them while Luke just stands around picking his nose?

Luke takes a weak pill in DN. He had trouble creating an illusion. Naga can kill him in a heartbeat.

What does his difficulty to create an illusion have to do with Sadow just killing him? I agree Sadow is superior to him but it would be very close. And lets say Sadow is fighting Luke, you think the slayer and Shimarra are going to stand there? They'd curbstomp the Massassi before Sadow could defeat Luke....Then what's Sadow going to do?

Luke is weak in DN. Much weaker then in TUF.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
Luke is weak in DN. Much weaker then in TUF.

Apparently you have yet to finish the DN series...

Seriously Avis, Luke was a force God by TUF and even stronger, possibly the strongest in DN since we don't know what they'll do with him in LOTF..

I have to say, we don't know what they'll do with Revan either, but I wouldn't make the claim that he'll be a forcegod in KOTOR III just yet.

In any case, mutated massassi are pretty destructive, and will jump that Slayer in a heartbeat. Sadow can crush DN Luke like a bug with his force power (I mean, his control of the force is pretty damn sickening. Luke can't beat him in melee and he's outstripped in both force power and knowledge by Sadow.), and Shimarra gets cleaved in half. Done.

i'm sorry, 2 mutated Massassi deafeat Shimarra and a Vong Slayer? I don't think so. And you're making it seem that Sadow is leagues above DN Luke. I agree that he is superior to Luke but it would be a long and grueling fight...

I said that just to piss you guys off. I don't know jackshit abotu Shimarra or the Vong. I think the Vong are ridiculous enemies- apparently immune to the force kinda sorta, apparently they use organic weaponry that is "superior" to real tech (I've ranted about organic tech before; it's the most idiotic concept and I think I hate that more about NJO than I hate the godly force users.) , and they manipulate mini-kinda sorta blackholes, etc. etc... They just seem like a Star Trek enemy. Stupid and shallow. To me, after the creation of the Vong and that storyline, Star Wars stopped.

lol

Naga Sadow is leagues above Luke, he has demonstrated much more impressive power, despite the little information we have on him, his 2 feats already outclass every single one of Luke's in the NJO to DN Series.

So your saying that Sadow smashed a 100 pound sound into the Vong he wouldn't die? Its not a force attack, its physical, Sadow's strength will allow him to cleave the Overlord after a few major blows.

I agree with the Slayer and both mutated Massasi going down, however i don't see how a Overlord and a overpowered Jedi Master are going to take down one of the strongest force user and perhaps one of the strongest physically down. Unless Luke and Shimarra work in perfect collusion, they're both going down.

Sadow is a league above Luke.

What makes him league above Luke exactly? I agree he is superior to Luke but not by much at all. Nothing even suggests he's leagues above Luke. And what in the world makes you think he's more powerful than Shimarra? I think you're exaggerating his powers.

Not really, considering the sources and information we have on Sadow, already place him above Luke. This is Luke with around 20 books on him and Sadow who has one comic and it is shown he demonstrates a much more superior control of the force.

Adding that its agreed that a Sith Sword is much heavier than a Ligtsaber and yet the Ancient Sith wield them as easily as a Jedi wields a lightsaber, shows that the Ancient Sith possessed much greater phyiscal prowess than most Jedi and Sith inclusive of Luke.

I would think blowing up a star, is already an exaggarated feat, whoever wrote Sadow doing that was on drugs. His ability to generate Illusions that were so real, that noone could tell the difference demonstrates he can change "a dream to reality" these 2 crazy feats already outclassed what Luke did.

You can also logically deduce that Kun became pretty much on par with NJO Luke after learning from Sadow's teachings, that Sadow himself will be a Dark Side monster if he had ever shown his full power.

Sadow also had Sith teachings and was alive during the Golden Age what's your point, what makes him "leagues above Luke"? Why are we arguing feats here? Again I agree Sadow is probably only second to Ragnos but Luke is a close 3rd.

I would agree with Kun/Luke taking 3rd and 4th place, but we are forgetting that Ragnos himself is leagues above Sadow. Ragnos on his deathbed scared off Kressh and Sadow. This is Sadow who is not hesitant in backstabbing a rival or leader, as long as he knows his superior.

There is no real evidence to put him "leagues above Luke" but its universally agreed that Sadow is in a different League than Luke. The higest tier are taken up by the best of the Ancient Sith, with the 2nd Tier the best of the rest ie : TOTJ - DN. Note that we exclude any flukes.

Illustrious said it best here...

I'll go with the tier categories:

Tier 1:
Marka Ragnos
Lord Simus
Naga Sadow
Ludo Kressh
Freedon Nadd
Exar Kun
DE Sidious
Nihilus

Tier 2:
Revan
Bane
Traya

Tier 3:
Tyrannus
Malak
Vader
Sion
Bandon
Maul

Except that list did not include any Jedi.

Luke was able to manupilate several small Black Holes at once... now if you know anything about Black Holes you will know that such an acomplishment is... mindblowing... to manipulate that amount of mass. Gay... but still mindblowing.

Originally posted by Rayvann
Luke was able to manupilate several small Black Holes at once... now if you know anything about Black Holes you will know that such an acomplishment is... mindblowing... to manipulate that amount of mass. Gay... but still mindblowing.

The Vong could do it too, and we are unsure of how. If it was simply telekinesis, sure, it's pretty mind-blowing. But it remains completely inapplicable.

What about literally blowing a star? That would require a fair amount of energy to destroy such a powerful energy source, adding onto the fact, Luke's ability was not unique, however Sadow's were, with only later on techonolgy being able to do it.

Given the right teaching, its possible that any of the Ancient Sith and Kun will be able to learn Luke's technique, however its harder for them to learn the Ancient Sith's as Kun, with it could not mass produce such illusions, nor destroy a star. Btw this is just speculation, dont flame me for it.

In Illustrious list, i would make another tier, and put Luke, DE Sidious and Kun into that list. the Ancient Sith were "Godlike" and i believe that puts them into different league.

Originally posted by Illustrious
The Vong could do it too, and we are unsure of how. If it was simply telekinesis, sure, it's pretty mind-blowing. But it remains completely inapplicable.

I was under the impression the Vong used their ships to acomplish this.

I'd put Ragnos, Simus, Sadow and Kressh in tier 1 and DN Luke, Nadd, and Kun in Tier II

Agreed.

This all depends where they are fighting at. If they are fighting on Shimrra's turf, his side wins, if not, Sadow pummels them with debris and his side wins. Shimrra has physical strength that I would imagine to be around the same level as Sadow. Assuming Sadow can't just pummel him with the force, he'll be plenty occupied by Shimrra and the slayer while Luke pwns the Massassi. Again, this is only if they are in Shimrra turf (any place where they are surrounded by Yuuzhan Vong stuff since it won't be affected by the force). Anywhere else, Sadow's side wins.

The setting is in Neutral Ground where both teams have all their powers effective. Neither has the advantage of terrain over the other.

I don't think Sadow's going to wun by chucking stuff, Glentract, although there're other ways in which he could.

Well as Glentract pointed out, if the terrain is to the Vong's advantage they take it.