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there must be a moment when they are neither Jedi or Sith, would that moment be the perfect balance of the force?

Dog can be either dead or alive. It can never be neither.

And even so... they would be Balanced when Light. Dark is imbalance.

yeah people just take the meaning of balance of the Force sometimes too litteraly

my god...whats with these threads....

I never saw the light side as being "balanced"

Me trying to understand where people come up with stuff >>

I got nothing...

how can there be balance with just the light side OR the dark side. I wouldve thought that to find true balance would have meant trying to find the best balance of both dark and light ( think Yin and Tang) And having them work together.

Dark side forces the universe in its will. Lightside helps the universe to grow freely in peace.

I think you meant yin and yang.




yin and tang.

Originally posted by spekdah
how can there be balance with just the light side OR the dark side. I wouldve thought that to find true balance would have meant trying to find the best balance of both dark and light ( think Yin and Tang) And having them work together. Every time "balance of the Force" is mentioned, people always picture "balance" as in equal weight on either side.

Balance in this sense means "stability." The Force an't be stable while the Dark Side exists i.e. Balance=No more Sith.

There IS no middle path, it's either one or the other, Light or Dark.

Originally posted by Sesse
Dark side forces the universe in its will. Lightside helps the universe to grow freely in peace.


isnt a Jedi mind trick just forcing someone or something to a Jedis will?

Originally posted by Tangible God
Every time "balance of the Force" is mentioned, people always picture "balance" as in equal weight on either side.

Balance in this sense means "stability." The Force an't be stable while the Dark Side exists i.e. Balance=No more Sith.

There IS no middle path, it's either one or the other, Light or Dark.


So if there is a 'balance' needed for the light side, there is a 'balance' needed for the dark side, would be safe to say that the balance of the dark side is kept by having only two sith ( master & apprentice) existing at a time.

Originally posted by spekdah
So if there is a 'balance' needed for the light side, there is a 'balance' needed for the dark side, would be safe to say that the balance of the dark side is kept by having only two sith ( master & apprentice) existing at a time.

you're still seeing it in weight...there is no light side or dark side...the dark side of the Force are the powers you can use from the Force, its how you can manipulate the Force for your own purposes, and when that happens it creates a disturbance in the Force. Jedi choose to serve the Will of the Force, the Sith ignore it and use it for their own purposes. When a Jedi uses a mind trick it is not for his own purposes but for a greater goal, they do it also to serve the will of the Force in the end.

Having two Sith is just a way for the Dark Side to thrive; it is nothing to do with Balance. Sith don't give a damn about Balance.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Having two Sith is just a way for the Dark Side to thrive; it is nothing to do with Balance. Sith don't give a damn about Balance.

exactly! But it is them who bring the Force out of balance by like I said use the Force for their own purposes. If you do not serve the Will of the Force you create disturbances in the Force, which brings it out of balance which leaves one question tho...why did the Emperor feel that there is a disturbance in the Force while he was talking about Luke Skywalker.

I guess he meant a disturbance in the Force from his point of view...while the Force seemed to be more balanced he found it disturbing, cause the Sith know that it wouldn't be, because of there own actions. That the Force is more at peace is Skywalker's doing/fault. That is why I think that the emperor called it a disturbance in the Force while it actually wasn't...on the contrary.

I always thought that "the Dark Side of the Force" was more of a saying of how you use the Force. But maybe it does have a good and a dark side like in hinduism...their God has a good and a dark side unlike other religions.

Originally posted by spekdah
isnt a Jedi mind trick just forcing someone or something to a Jedis will?


Yes. But the Jedi is doing the Forces will

When the Jedi sense something is wrong, there is a "ripple" in the force (according to the Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest series). That usually means unbalance

No, the light side is not about balance...the Jedi are supposed to be light side right? How con you be balanced if you only accept certain aspects of the force...There is a balance, the combination of light and dark. Thats why Vapaad is so powerful, because its the combination of light and dark.

In ROTS, the light side was too strong, think of it like global warming...It gets too hot so the northern hemisphere geets colder. The Earth tires to balance itself back out. Anakin is the catalyst for this balance.

There was too much light side, Anakin destroyed it. Then there was too much dark side, Anakin destroyed it.

Anakin brought balance to the force, that balance is achieved in ROTJ when both the light and dark side powerhouses have been completely destroyed.

BALANCE is about accepting all aspects of the force and using them all effectively.

Human nature is the weakness!

With a power such as the Force, one can do powerful deeds with one gesture. How can one be sure that his or her deed brings a desired outcome? Acting without thought, with clouded mind (fear, anger, alcohol) makes the force user to misinterprent the situation, and the participants are the ones paying the price.

There is no emotion, there is peace. Emotions are good, but they must not affect ones decisions or attitutes.

There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. One must seek to know the facts before acting. Jedis personal preferances are not to interfere with his choices.

There is no passion, there is serenity. If one knows much about something, he will become engrossed by it. Just because Jedi knows something better than other, musnt make it any more important for him.

There is no chaos, there is harmony. Things happen for a reason.

There is no death, there is the Force. Ultimately everyone is binded by the same shit called the Force. Nothing is separate, so there are no enemies. Only "misguided" friends who may give you no other option than to kill them in order to protect the rest of the people.

There are no aspects in the force. There are only ways to use it.
Many think that the darkside is supposed to make one powerful. So it might do, but did Anakin find happiness ever from it? Did Sidious?

Anakins life became more miserable as he came closer to it. Just compare ROTS and ROTJ ending sequences and you will see the difference in light and dark.

So, is the modern Europe unbalanced because we no longer have Nazis or Commies?

Dark Side IS the imbalance, as Ushgarak simply put it.

Man.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Dark Side IS the imbalance, as Ushgarak simply put it.

Man.

I'm sorry Superfly but I don't agree with that interpretation. I respect Ush, but I also respectfully disagree with his interpretation.

I agree with Sesse's opinion that human anture is the weakness. I'll come back to this in a sec. But to respond to some of his comments, the ones I disagree with.

Originally posted by Sesse
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. One must seek to know the facts before acting. Jedis personal preferances are not to interfere with his choices.

If one only has knowledge of the light side, I view this as ignorance. The force has these two characteristics, light and dark. not learning one of them is ignorance because there is another side to every argument. Learning the light or dark can teach you one moreabout the other. That is true knowledge.

Originally posted by Sesse
There is no death, there is the Force. Ultimately everyone is binded by the same shit called the Force. Nothing is separate, so there are no enemies. Only "misguided" friends who may give you no other option than to kill them in order to protect the rest of the people.

I don't quite understand what you are saying here at the end...but if everyone is bound by THE FORCE, how can you exclude the dark side (or dark applications) of it? It seems to me you can't.

Originally posted by Sesse
There are no aspects in the force. There are only ways to use it.
Many think that the darkside is supposed to make one powerful. So it might do, but did Anakin find happiness ever from it? Did Sidious?

Anakins life became more miserable as he came closer to it. Just compare ROTS and ROTJ ending sequences and you will see the difference in light and dark.

I don't think there are many good examples of "balanced" (what I would define it as) in the movies. Vader and Sidioue were not balance from my point of view because they relied exclusively on the darkside. The Jedi relied exclusively on the lightside. I believe that neihter the sith nor the jedi found happiness. The best example of a balanced figure is Mace and his vapaad style...it opens him up to both light and dark side, making him a most powerful fighter.

Again, as you said...the key is human error...standing on the precipice between light and dark must be difficult, but I believe it gives you the most balanced personality and the best point of view.

Originally posted by Sesse
So, is the modern Europe unbalanced because we no longer have Nazis or Commies?

I'm not quite ready to respond to this because there is a lot more packed in that question than light/dark side philosophy.

People tend to think of the light side of the Force as "good" and the dark side of the Force as "bad" or "evil". I don't like to throw around those titles. I think the Jedi did plenty of things that were harmful in very large ways to many people. I also think that the sith did many things that were helpful to many people. The reverse is also true.

There are many religous philosophies that do away with standard Judeo-Chirstian-Islamic god/devil philosophy by combining them into one all powerful being. god and devil are the same thing. This to me is like saying there is only the Force. I believe in this philosophy. If you are too far to one side, you are ignorant of the other and as we've established, human nature to choose one side or the other is the weakness. I think the best (in all senses of the word) all around force users/people are the ones who strive to cut the force down the middle and obtain a balance between the light side and the dark side. The achieve a whole view of the force, not a slanted one.

I wonder if anyone reads these long posts, but please...respond anyway.

Heh... Old Japanese wisdom from some movie:

"If you walk on a road, you should be either on the left or the right side. If you walk in the middle, a car will come and hit you."

I am curious to hear what good has actually come from the darkside. The slogan: "Power corrupts" has been around for some time now. Perhaps the lightside teachings are there in attempt to prevent this process?

I don't think so. Before they cross over to the darkside they would obviously have anger within them, they would have some taint of the dark side.

Well, depending which side of the road you are walkin on and in which country, you get hit too. If you walk down the middle, your equally as likely to get hit from both sides (unless its a devided highway) and that is BALANCE!

The jedi were tripped out on power, the were too arrogant to realize what was going on and stop it. The same thing happened before the jedi split at the formation of the Republic. The jedi served no one with inaction and they certainly did not help by breaking all thier principles and rushing into war. The Sith destryoed the corrupt and lethargic republic that was serving no one a right move...unfortunately Sidious (like the jedi) only appreciated one side of the Force and corrupted the empire in the opposite way the republic was corrupted. The empire became so efficient it became rutheless.

People should stive for the middle, the grey area, the exact peak of the mountain. Things in life are never black and white.

Grey area does not exist.

Things in life are never black and white, no, but Star Wars isn't real life, unless you need help...

The Empire = Bad. The Rebels = Good.

There's no 'Oh, but Lieutenant Whathisface actually just wanted to save his homeworld from Imperial tyranny!' Well, then he should have joined the Rebels.

There is no grey area in the Force.

And George Lucas has specifically said that that definition of Balance is not the Star Wars Force definition, Alliance.

I've seen alot about "human weakness," but what about the non-humans, who also used the Force. Either most of the Force-users in the galaxy retain very human like qualities, or we're missing something here.

Like Communism, the Dark Side COULD work. It's brutal, yet efficient. Like Revan or Palpatine, one could use the Dark Side to conquer the corrupt way of life and install a system which would be beneficial for everyone, and kept in line by the Dark Side.

But it's natural jealousy, suspicion, curiousity, hatred, and greed, found in ALL beings, that break such as system down. Eventually, the commanders of the Dark Side would turn on each other, be driven mad by their abilities and authority, or become drunk on their power/command of the Force. That in turn wil lead to the on-going unbalanced sense of the Force and way of life that we know it.


The Jedi tried to what the Dark Side COULD do. However, because the Light Side must rely on pacifism to keep their members away from the corruption which the Dark Side would lead to, they cannot take immediate action through show of Force when a crisis arises i.e the Mandolorian War. And because of this lack of response, Life is sent into an unbalaced state anyway, only not as soon as the Dark Side would send it.

No matter what, until a being is born that can resist the political corruption of the Dark Side and the "narrow-minded, dogmatic view of the Jedi," the galaxy will ALWAYS be unbalanced.

Yep, George Lucas stated himself that the "black and white" in Star Wars is painfully clear. Rebels = Good, Empire = Bad, Jedi = Good, Sith = Bad...

Originally posted by Captain REX
Things in life are never black and white, no, but Star Wars isn't real life, unless you need help...

...STAR WARS ISNT REAL? fear

No, I just use Star Wars as a metaphor to comment on real society.

I did not know, REX and Ocelot, that lucas had made such statements. I find that dissapoointing. I guess I see more there than what Lucas sees (or just something different).

Good points Tangible God, I think you have described the situation fairly accurately. It would be interesting to see what would happen if this balanced being came into power in SW.

See more there than Lucas? Um, no? You can't see more than Lucas, seeing as he created all these ideas and such for his film.

I fail to see how that's disappointing. Would you prefer the 'fine line of a sidewalk' that every other movie uses?

Originally posted by Alliance
...STAR WARS ISNT REAL? fear

No, I just use Star Wars as a metaphor to comment on real society.

I did not know, REX and Ocelot, that lucas had made such statements. I find that dissapoointing. I guess I see more there than what Lucas sees (or just something different).

Good points Tangible God, I think you have described the situation fairly accurately. It would be interesting to see what would happen if this balanced being came into power in SW. Heh, I think some money grabbing, attention seeking author will make use of Ben Skywalker in such a fashion.

lol..2016 STAR WARS EPISODE VII hang

Afraid that is the way it is, Alliance. It is not my interpretation, it is GL's. Dark is Imbalance.