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Traya is at her peak, before the Malachor Academy.

Same with Katarn and Durron.

Which team wins?

I see this as a very close battle. Two very powerful force users and lightsaber duelists against one Uber force user. Hard to say. I almost see this as being a tie.

Please. DN Kyp can do this by himself. Adding Kyle is overkill.

Na, I think Traya takes this...Just my opinion ofcourse.

Traya.

There's no reason to believe Traya can randomly throw out her instakill against powerful force users such as the duo.

I think you're the first one to use the word "instakill" in this thread. Nobody has asserted that "Traya can randomly throw out her instakill," in this thread yet.

Ok and? What in the world makes you think Traya has any chance against the duo without her instakill, with th exception of your hatred for anything involving NJO/DN?

I'll respond when you can come up with something civil and devoid of logical fallacies. That requires the absence of trolling and strawman arguments.

and the "ICK vs tdtd War" goes on....

Originally posted by Xepeyon
and the "ICK vs tdtd War" goes on....

Pardon me, but how can it be a war when only one "side" has been banned for it, and the other "side" just asked him to be civil?

Answer? It's not.

Step 1: Remove head from ass.

Step 2: Observe situation

Step 3: Think

Step 4: Type and post

she flings out a whole bunch of lightsabers and butchers them both with the floating lightsaber technique

Originally posted by IKC
I'll respond when you can come up with something civil and devoid of logical fallacies. That requires the absence of trolling and strawman arguments.


ah and here come the quasi intellectual definitions.. You don't have to respond, your hatred for NJO/DN is evident, whether you consider it strawman or not.

Originally posted by tdtd
ah and here come the quasi intellectual definitions.. You don't have to respond, your hatred for NJO/DN is evident, whether you consider it strawman or not.

And I can easily point out your love affair for everything NJO and DN.

Apparently Traya needs her instakill (according to you), even though you provided no evidence for it. And apparently, despite using it on three KotOR era masters, Kyp and Kyle are too powerful for it to be used on, again with no evidence.

Now, I don't believe Traya's going to win the match, but at least provide proof other than the fact they're NJO characters.

What the....

Unless Traya can use her instakill ability she get's owned pretty much.
She might have the greater force knowledge but she doesn't have the power to kick Kyp (with his enormous potential) and Kyle (with force power boost by the Valley and tons of experience) at once. Even one of them would give her a pretty nice fight. Both at once is overkill.

Originally posted by Illustrious
And I can easily point out your love affair for everything NJO and DN.


Yes.



Right.



We don't even know if she can use it without having the Exile at hand. Then if she can do that we don't even know what it does exactly and I doubt it would match the devastating effect of a blast from Ragnos' sceptre which Kyle is able to survive - and Kyp still does have more power than Kyle.
And I doubt she has the skill required to take them both in lightsaber combat.

Kreia definately has more knowledge of the force then both of them combined. She killed 3 powerful Jedi masters with just a wave of her hand, she can manipulate echoes in the force, she can foresee thousands of years into the future...apparently she was even capable of killing the force itself. No I dont think Kyp and Kyle take this.

Traya might be able to do it cause of her instakill, it's hard to say.

Whether or not she can use it without the Exile nearby is irrelevant for my purpose, considering tdtd automatically brought up the instakill without regard to anything else. The point I made had nothing to do with Traya vs. Kyp and Kyle, it had to do with the love/hate affair for NJO/DN.

Ragnos' scepter being used is dubious. Tavion was using the force energy stored within it to energize Ragnos prior to Jaden walking in, we do not know of the force power of the blast itself. Also, there's the distinct possibility that the dark side ending is uncanon.

Illustrious you're right, I like DN/NJO, and I don't hide it by consider my arguments "logical" if they aren't. Some people need to stop lying to themselves.. And whether or not she can use it without the exile is irrelevant, nothing suggests she would be able to use it on these two before getting cut in half.

Meh, I know too little about either of them to give any accurate judgement.

Originally posted by tdtd
Illustrious you're right, I like DN/NJO, and I don't hide it by consider my arguments "logical" if they aren't. Some people need to stop lying to themselves.. And whether or not she can use it without the exile is irrelevant, nothing suggests she would be able to use it on these two before getting cut in half.

Nothing suggests she has a "recharge" time for it. Stop clutching at straws and actually come up with an argument, before IKC pwns you again...

Originally posted by Traya
Meh, I know too little about either of them to give any accurate judgement.



Nothing suggests she has a "recharge" time for it. Stop clutching at straws and actually come up with an argument, before IKC pwns you again...


1. You have no idea what a straw man argument is.
2. IKC needs to find himself a more intelligent *****, not one who makes a fool out of himself/herself when she posts things she has no concept of.

Ok, calm it down, please.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Whether or not she can use it without the Exile nearby is irrelevant for my purpose, considering tdtd automatically brought up the instakill without regard to anything else. The point I made had nothing to do with Traya vs. Kyp and Kyle, it had to do with the love/hate affair for NJO/DN.

Ragnos' scepter being used is dubious. Tavion was using the force energy stored within it to energize Ragnos prior to Jaden walking in, we do not know of the force power of the blast itself. Also, there's the distinct possibility that the dark side ending is uncanon.

Illustrious, I'm not sure what you mean, but if you are talking about the scepters power "after" Ragnos was revived there are two things about it......

1. In the darkside ending where he uses the energy against Kyle, Tavion never used the force inside it to revive Ragnos.
2. Right after Kyle was hit by the scepters beam Jaden used it to tear down the roof and a wall, so clearly it was still really powerfull. But if you're point was "exactly" how effective it is against a human being or a livling creature then I don't know really, but since it tore down walls easily we can guess..... (Note that Kyle used the force before getting hit by the scepters beam).

Kreia's instakill is similar to Nihilus draning technique, it kills the targets and drain there whole bodys, even from the force. If you walk up to the jedi masters bodys in KOTOR 2 it says that there bodies are "drained of all life, worse than dead", or something like that. So I doubt Kyle or Kyp would be able to survive it, "If Kreia is able to do it at will".

Big IF Kamikz, and their techniques are NOT similar, and dark side ending isn't canon.

But because the darkside ending is not canon, does that necessarily mean Kyle can't take a blast from the scepter? He has shown to be able to do so in the "what if Jaden went to the darkside" ending...

Their techniques look exactly the same when they use it, and it has exactly the same effect on force users as far as Kreia has described Nihilus power and showed her own....

Originally posted by kamikz
But because the darkside ending is not canon, does that necessarily mean Kyle can't take a blast from the scepter? He has shown to be able to do so in the "what if Jaden went to the darkside" ending...

Their techniques look exactly the same when they use it, and it has exactly the same effect on force users as far as Kreia has described Nihilus power and showed her own....

Not necessarily since absence of proof isn't proof of absence, but dark side isn't canon so there's no way you can say that he can. Their techniques do different things, and Nihilus' is on a much greater scale, and there's no way to tell if she can throw it out anytime she wants.

I know there's a possibility that she can't throw it out at any time but it is pretty similar to Nihilus technique.

But since the darkside ending showed that Kyle was capable of surviving it, and since there is no difference between lightside ending Kyle and darkside ending Kyle, then you could as well say that Kyle has the ability to survive it.

Originally posted by kamikz
I know there's a possibility that she can't throw it out at any time but it is pretty similar to Nihilus technique.

But since the darkside ending showed that Kyle was capable of surviving it, and since there is no difference between lightside ending Kyle and darkside ending Kyle, then you could as well say that Kyle has the ability to survive it.

What do you mean there's no difference, in the light side ending Kyle doesn't even get shot with Ragnos' Scepter. Storyline wise the light side ending is canon, meaning the dark side ending shouldn't even be considered, no matter what happened as it isn't canon in the least bit. And again I must emphasize the fact that Traya's technique isn't the same thing as Nihilus', because Nihilus' technique wasn't a technique at all, it was who he was. He ATE the force, because he was the direct result of the wound in the force, so it's not like it was an uber force power, nor was it an active power. You shoot something at him, he will naturally "eat" it. Traya's technique was indeed a force technique whether or not she needed the exile.

Meh, she can win with her instantkill, but really, should it be included? It's nature is too unknown at this point.

Without it, she's about on par with Kyp in force abilities. But with Kyle there it gets difficult for her. I don't see her taking this.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
Meh, she can win with her instantkill, but really, should it be included? It's nature is too unknown at this point.

Without it, she's about on par with Kyp in force abilities. But with Kyle there it gets difficult for her. I don't see her taking this.

What makes you presume that she is on par with Kyp in force abilities? What exactly puts her on par with them? A better question would be, what is Traya without her instakill.

Simply just what I heard. Once I beat KOTOR 2 (Im playing it now! ) Ill get back to you. She seems to be very powerful. She did manage to predict 4000 years in the future among some other near things.

Just what you heard? I see. Yes she is powerful, and her foresight is unparalleled but that doesn't put her on par with Kyp in force abilities.. Just makes her really hot.

Originally posted by tdtd
What do you mean there's no difference, in the light side ending Kyle doesn't even get shot with Ragnos' Scepter. Storyline wise the light side ending is canon, meaning the dark side ending shouldn't even be considered, no matter what happened as it isn't canon in the least bit. And again I must emphasize the fact that Traya's technique isn't the same thing as Nihilus', because Nihilus' technique wasn't a technique at all, it was who he was. He ATE the force, because he was the direct result of the wound in the force, so it's not like it was an uber force power, nor was it an active power. You shoot something at him, he will naturally "eat" it. Traya's technique was indeed a force technique whether or not she needed the exile.

But it has almost exactly the same result as Nihilus eating so.....

Where is the proof that Jaden didn't go to the darkside anyway?

The proof is that light side endings are canon, dark side are not.. Consult google for more information. And you're still not understanding the difference between Nihilus and Traya. Traya's was a technique, while with Nihilus, it was more about who he was than anything else. Try throwing something at him while he's asleep, he will most likely eat it, because he can't be destroyed by the force, only by the one who created him(The Exile).

I'm not saying that Kreia can drain the force like Nihilus can, just that the technique she used had the same effect on the jedi masters as Nihilus had on everyone. (Drained their bodys from the force). The most likley explanation is that she used the Exile since he is similar to Nihilus. And give me a quote or a link where it says that the lightside is canon please...

Can you tell me why he absorbs everything, even when he's not awake? (Nihilus)

Originally posted by kamikz
I'm not saying that Kreia can drain the force like Nihilus can, just that the technique she used had the same effect on the jedi masters as Nihilus had on everyone. (Drained their bodys from the force). The most likley explanation is that she used the Exile since he is similar to Nihilus. And give me a quote or a link where it says that the lightside is canon please...

Can you tell me why he absorbs everything, even when he's not awake? (Nihilus)

Because he's a fluke, because he's pretty much the force, and throwing more force attacks at him makes him stronger..

Go to google and type in "is dark side ending canon". You'll get a whole bunch of crap explaining that light side ending is canon, and dark side ending is "alternative".

I have only seen him drain people...

Ok I'll do that.

Edit: I didn't find anything, provide me with a link please. If it's so easy to find then you won't have a problem....

What the?

Traya refers to what she and Nihilus developed as attack sthat "cannot be learned" and from "which there is no defense." Pray tell me how Durron will defend himself against such a technique, when he has never faced an ancient sith lord. Katarn would be pwned relatively quickly, me thinks, but Durron may hold in there.

Something as unknown as the instantkill should be left out in this.

http://www.answers.com/topic/jedi-exile is one link.. I can provide more if you want... And zephiel nothing suggests that she could use her instakill anytime she wants or without the exile..

Why though Ocelot?

If Traya could develop such a technique, why shouldn't it speak for her ability and skill in the force? It is a move that "sucks" the force out of its victims. The masters that were killed were described as worse than dead.

Later she proved that she could use the technique out of the prescence of the Exile. She used it against all of Sion's dark Jedi, swatting them like flies in less than two seconds.

What do you mean develop Zephiel? Logically she got it as soon as she created a force bond with the exile while he was a wound. There's no evidence she had it before that. It doesn't speak for her ability and skill in the force because of the way she obtained it, she didn't conjure it up out of think air... And what makes you thnk she'll be able to use it on powerful force users?

Well the fact that she used it against three powerful masters SIMULTANEOUSLY, speaks for itself.




How do you even think that the technique requires the Exile at all? I mean it doesn't make sense. The proof even contradicts your hypothesis.

It is a move developed by Kreia, but inspired by the ancient Sith. Since Kyp has experience with neither, I doubt that he would be able to resist such a deadly technique.

What do you mean it contradicts my hypothesis? From my understanding she only got that technique after the incident on Malachor V, same time that Nihilus was created so no that doesn't contradict my hypothesis, it supports it. I don't doubt Kyp wouldn't be able to resist such a technique but I doubt Kreia could throw it at anyone anytime she wants. There is nothing to indicate Kreia would have that instakill if Malachor V didn't happen. Most likely she wouldn't have developed it and Nihilus wouldn't have come to be..

Of course she needed Malachor 5 to develop the technique!

But the fact that she was able to produce such a technique speaks of other abilities as well. It is an indication of her strength. She threw it around at whim when she destroyed the dark jedi.

The reason why she didn't start instant pwning everyone was

1) She was an advocate of manipulation and lies rather than pure brute force

2) She was still recovering from her seperation from the force ( credit to Sion and Nihilus here)

And my point is it doesn't speak volumes for her because of how she was able to form the technique which, in my humble opinion, was a direct result of the life bond she created between her and the exile. Without it she couldn't do anything.

Uh.....we were looking for Jedi Academy canon ending not KOTOR 2

Reply to Tdtd's link.

My point was that light side endings are canon while dark side endings are 'alternative'. This goes for all SW games.

"While it is not yet explicitly clear which ending is canonical, the official stance from Lucasfilm on games where players can choose between the light side and dark side has traditionally been that the light side ending is the canonical one".

It is traditionally the lightside that is canon, and it said at the top that it actually wasen't decided. And this might not go for Academy either.

ok...