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This was done before but not like this, can Spidey win without his spidersense and web shooters?

I'm sure everyone knows how much of a bad ass dwarf Puck is.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This was done before but not like this, can Spidey win without his spidersense and web shooters?

I'm sure everyone knows how much of a bad ass dwarf Puck is.

Is this original Puck or the second Puck?

If it's the original Puck is it classic Puck or upgrade Puck?

Spidey wins he don't need webshooters to shoot webs...........

Well which Puck is this? because it's stated the classic Puck has reflexes rivaling that of Spider-Man

Originally posted by batdude123
Is this original Puck or the second Puck?

Second Puck ofcourse, Classic wouldn't stand a chance

Spider-Man with no spider sense = Puck but taller.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Second Puck ofcourse, Classic wouldn't stand a chance

Huh?.....Second Puck as female Puck stands a better chance than guy Puck?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Well which Puck is this? because it's stated the classic Puck has reflexes rivaling that of Spider-Man

Really?

I thought the upgrade was the best version of Puck?

Anyhow the better version of Puck will do, whichever that is.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Huh?.....Second Puck as female Puck stands a better chance than guy Puck?

sorry about that,

I just noticed I was confused, Puck that fought Savage Hulk is who's fighting Spidey here.

I suppose it's the male version, lol

One more thing is it true he's class 10?(Puck)

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Spidey wins he don't need webshooters to shoot webs...........

This is Classic Spiderman, not some retcon version

Originally posted by Mr Master
Really?

I thought the upgrade was the best version of Puck?

Anyhow the better version of Puck will do, whichever that is.

Classic Puck was a dwarf that had a demon in him. If he released it Razzar could beat Spider-Man

Classic Puck got an upgrade and this is his powerset:
Puck
The original Puck had enhanced agility and superhuman strength rivaling that of Spider-Man. He was also a trained soldier and formidable hand-to-hand combatant. After a run in with The Master of the World, his body was altered and compressed resulting into his tissue became akin to compressed rubber. The stats are from The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe - Master Edition #1

Agility: One of the most agile characters in the Marvel universe, even rivaling that of Spider-Man. He has superhuman agility, significantly beyond the natural limits of the human body. Prior to getting his upgrade, his speed and agility rivaled that of a 6' foot athlete even in his dwarf state. With his agility he can bounce off various things like a hockey puck and even now with his upgrade can do this feat to a greater extent.

Bull Fighter: Before he became a dwarf, he was a famous bullfighter in Spain in 1930's. They even said Eugene was better than Maera himself. Even Ernest Hemmingway was watching him and was quite impressed with his skills.

Durability: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained metahuman durability. Which allows Puck to withstand extreme temperatures and pressures, and virtually all toxins, corrosives, punctures and concussions without sustaining injury. As he said he became invulnerable, due to Puck's tissues were condensed at a molecular level, causing his body to become akin to compressed rubber.

Experience: Puck is very old; he was a soldier of fortune in the early 1900s. He has traveled the world and experienced many cultures, battle many foes and learned from it all. His age almost rivals that of Wolverine, however, Puck's age keeps changing in the comics. He has been in many battles for instance on the opposing side against Black Widow in the Tonkin Gulf in 1967. Also Wolverine recognized his battle tactics in Maracaibo and even battled with Modred to stop the Brass Bishop into getting into the new Tower of Babel. He also fought with Wolverine and Ernest Hemingway in the Spanish Civil War.

Fake Death: An ability he learned in the Orient, where he can place himself in a temporary death-like trance state. This can fool most people leaving them open for an attack.

Fighting Skills: Puck is one of the most skilled fighters in the Marvel universe. He knows a mixture of various martial arts, street fighting techniques, acrobatics and gymnastics. He even has such skill that allows him to sneak up on Wolverine, as he said "Who...? You! Well, well, well. I shoulda known you'd be the only one who could sneak up on me like that."

Intelligence: A very bright person even in the heat of battle has quoted Hamlet from time to time. In a battle with Atlanteans, he quoted. "Let the foils be brought the gentlemen willing, and the King hold his purpose, I will win for him if I can, if not, I will gain nothing but my shame and the odd hits!" He's a scholar and often reads works by Shakespeare and even in the past was friends with Ernest Hemmingway. Puck can also speak fluent Russian, Japanese, German and various other languages as well. He also has a great deal of knowledge about magic, folklore and magical rituals.

Reflexes: Even prior to his upgrade, Puck trained himself to be the best shape he could be and even had superhuman level reflexes, virtually instantaneous. He could act out many battle tactics in his head only in a fraction of a second and in the next heartbeat act.

Speed: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman speed. That's the ability to run 111-115 miles per hour

Stamina: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman stamina. That's the ability to sustain peak exertion before fatigue impairs performance up to a day.

Strength: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman strength. Prior to just being a dwarf he had peak human strength, but now he is Superhuman Class 10. That's the ability to press 2-10 tons.

Yoga: Trained by an old Hindu, named Dr.Srivinda, which allows Puck to slow his breathing and alter his body temperature. Even to the skill level being submerged into the freezing Arctic water for minutes without any problems at all. This was at the time when Puck hadn't had his upgrade yet.
-----
Puck II was Puck I's daughter, and basically had the same powerset as upgrade Puck

Puck II
The second Puck seems to have inherited some of his powers but to what degree is not clear. Her strength is at least enhanced beyond a level attainable by normal humans. She has experience in street fighting techniques. Stats are from Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Women 2005. "Zuzha possesses superhuman strength, speed, durability, agility, reflexes and endurance"

Agility: Must like her father, she is one of the most agile people in the Marvel universe. Just like her father she has been shown to bounce off various objects and the resulting impact destroys the target.

Durability: Puck II has enhanced durability, but it hasn't been proven if she has become bulletproof like her father or not.

Fighting Skills: She's an experienced fighter and is skilled hand-to-hand combatant, combining various martial arts with street fighting techniques, and is an Olympic-level gymnastic and acrobat. She even beat a Plodex clone of her father in hand-to-hand.

Speed: In the handbook they state she has superhuman speed, but in the graph that list her having normal speed. Which doesn't make much sense from the feats she has done. Superhuman speed is at the peak range of 700mph.

Spoke From the Womb: As odd as that sounds, Puck II had the ability speak from the womb and the reason why she could do this was never stated. It may have some magical connection to Raazer being in Puck I, or she may just be special all on her own.

Strength: Puck II like her father has superhuman strength, somewhere in between 800lbs-25 ton range. Her strength must be quite high up since she has been shown to damage even members of a Box army. Yet her full strength was never stated.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Classic Puck was a dwarf that had a demon in him. If he released it Razzar could beat Spider-Man

Classic Puck got an upgrade and this is his powerset:
Puck
The original Puck had enhanced agility and superhuman strength rivaling that of Spider-Man. He was also a trained soldier and formidable hand-to-hand combatant. After a run in with The Master of the World, his body was altered and compressed resulting into his tissue became akin to compressed rubber. The stats are from The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe - Master Edition #1

Agility: One of the most agile characters in the Marvel universe, even rivaling that of Spider-Man. He has superhuman agility, significantly beyond the natural limits of the human body. Prior to getting his upgrade, his speed and agility rivaled that of a 6' foot athlete even in his dwarf state. With his agility he can bounce off various things like a hockey puck and even now with his upgrade can do this feat to a greater extent.

Bull Fighter: Before he became a dwarf, he was a famous bullfighter in Spain in 1930's. They even said Eugene was better than Maera himself. Even Ernest Hemmingway was watching him and was quite impressed with his skills.

Durability: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained metahuman durability. Which allows Puck to withstand extreme temperatures and pressures, and virtually all toxins, corrosives, punctures and concussions without sustaining injury. As he said he became invulnerable, due to Puck's tissues were condensed at a molecular level, causing his body to become akin to compressed rubber.

Experience: Puck is very old; he was a soldier of fortune in the early 1900s. He has traveled the world and experienced many cultures, battle many foes and learned from it all. His age almost rivals that of Wolverine, however, Puck's age keeps changing in the comics. He has been in many battles for instance on the opposing side against Black Widow in the Tonkin Gulf in 1967. Also Wolverine recognized his battle tactics in Maracaibo and even battled with Modred to stop the Brass Bishop into getting into the new Tower of Babel. He also fought with Wolverine and Ernest Hemingway in the Spanish Civil War.

Fake Death: An ability he learned in the Orient, where he can place himself in a temporary death-like trance state. This can fool most people leaving them open for an attack.

Fighting Skills: Puck is one of the most skilled fighters in the Marvel universe. He knows a mixture of various martial arts, street fighting techniques, acrobatics and gymnastics. He even has such skill that allows him to sneak up on Wolverine, as he said "Who...? You! Well, well, well. I shoulda known you'd be the only one who could sneak up on me like that."

Intelligence: A very bright person even in the heat of battle has quoted Hamlet from time to time. In a battle with Atlanteans, he quoted. "Let the foils be brought the gentlemen willing, and the King hold his purpose, I will win for him if I can, if not, I will gain nothing but my shame and the odd hits!" He's a scholar and often reads works by Shakespeare and even in the past was friends with Ernest Hemmingway. Puck can also speak fluent Russian, Japanese, German and various other languages as well. He also has a great deal of knowledge about magic, folklore and magical rituals.

Reflexes: Even prior to his upgrade, Puck trained himself to be the best shape he could be and even had superhuman level reflexes, virtually instantaneous. He could act out many battle tactics in his head only in a fraction of a second and in the next heartbeat act.

Speed: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman speed. That's the ability to run 111-115 miles per hour

Stamina: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman stamina. That's the ability to sustain peak exertion before fatigue impairs performance up to a day.

Strength: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman strength. Prior to just being a dwarf he had peak human strength, but now he is Superhuman Class 10. That's the ability to press 2-10 tons.

Yoga: Trained by an old Hindu, named Dr.Srivinda, which allows Puck to slow his breathing and alter his body temperature. Even to the skill level being submerged into the freezing Arctic water for minutes without any problems at all. This was at the time when Puck hadn't had his upgrade yet.
-----



This is the Puck I was trying to convey

Classic Puck with upgrade vs Spiderman

and now that I read that bio, I wonder if I should of taken Spidey's sense away,
This upgraded Puck is no joke, better than I imagined.

Originally posted by Mr Master
-----
This is the Puck I was trying to convey

Classic Puck with upgrade vs Spiderman

and now that I read that bio, I wonder if I should of taken Spidey's sense away,
This upgraded Puck is no joke, better than I imagined.

Well in the handbook upgraded Puck had the same ranking for reflexes as Spider-Man. So yes give him back his spider-sense or Puck easily wins.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Well in the handbook upgraded Puck had the same ranking for reflexes as Spider-Man. So yes give him back his spider-sense or Puck easily wins.

I agree,

Spidey has his sense back but not his web shooting ability.

Still though I think these two are evenly matched, perhaps Puck's size may make the difference, he' a harder target to hit, but he also would have to struggle more to hit himself, since he would have to jump just to hit Spidey's chest for example

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Well in the handbook upgraded Puck had the same ranking for reflexes as Spider-Man. So yes give him back his spider-sense or Puck easily wins.

TOHOTMU rankings are crap though. They have beast stated as a 2 tonner yet ranked as 5 on the graph, a point higher than the explictly stated to be 15 tonner Spider-man in the strength category.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still though I think these two are evenly matched, perhaps Puck's size may make the difference, he' a harder target to hit, but he also would have to struggle more to hit himself, since he would have to jump just to hit Spidey's chest for example

I think Puck's durability would be the deciding factor.

Agility:
1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight113-06.jpg

Durability:
1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlightv191-04.jpg
2. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/scan_puck.jpg

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
TOHOTMU rankings are crap though. They have beast stated as a 2 tonner yet ranked as 5 on the graph, a point higher than the explictly stated to be 15 tonner Spider-man in the strength category.

Indeed, but he does actually have incredible reflexes

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AlphaFlight16-15.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is Classic Spiderman, not some retcon version
Huh? this is current spidey who has organic webs where have you been.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Indeed, but he does actually have incredible reflexes

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AlphaFlight16-15.jpg

But see here, spider-man has the reflexes 40x that of an average man. And that was pre-"other" upgrade.

But puck's durability would be indeed daunting for even Spider-man.

Spidey pokes puck out with the stingers.........

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I think Puck's durability would be the deciding factor.





Nice scans, that one where Cap is asking Him to be a shield for himself and the others is funny, goes to show how tuff he really is

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Spidey pokes puck out with the stingers.........


????

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I think Puck's durability would be the deciding factor.

Agility:
1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/AlphaFlight113-06.jpg

Durability:
1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlightv191-04.jpg
2. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/scan_puck.jpg



Indeed, but he does actually have incredible reflexes

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AlphaFlight16-15.jpg

pffft.... Spider-Man would kick his midget arse!

Originally posted by Mr Master
????
Is this current spiderman with upgrades or classic red blue costume before the others arc?

Originally posted by Scoobless
pffft.... Spider-Man would kick his midget arse!
yup

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Is this current spiderman with upgrades or classic red blue costume before the others arc?

Classic

Spider-man gets to his back, grabs him, point his stingers to his mouth, then shoot filling up his esophagus with pointy sharp stab-stabs, suffocating him while causing intense internal pain.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Classic
See you had me confused........and spidey still wins the majority.....

Originally posted by thesilverspider
yup


I don't know about that, Puck seems impressive, on top of that Spidey doesn't have his Webs nor his Sense,

not saying he would win either but I think it's a perfect fight

5/10 each

with Spider sense, Spidey wins more often than not

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
But see here, spider-man has the reflexes 40x that of an average man. And that was pre-"other" upgrade.

But puck's durability would be indeed daunting for even Spider-man.

That scan I posted was just classic Puck even before his upgrade, so yeah his reflexes are just as good.

I agree

Originally posted by thesilverspider
yup

Nope. WHat is Spider-Man even going to do to him?

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Spidey pokes puck out with the stingers.........

Being compressed rubber kinda prevents that

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Spider-man gets to his back, grabs him, point his stingers to his mouth, then shoot filling up his esophagus with pointy sharp stab-stabs, suffocating him while causing intense internal pain.

Sounds spooky,

but Spidey is Classic and does not have Webs or Sense to warn him

who wins?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That scan I posted was just classic Puck even before his upgrade, so yeah his reflexes are just as good.

I agree



Nope. WHat is Spider-Man even going to do to him?



Being compressed rubber kinda prevents that
I'm not to sure but the stingers might have a poisonus effect but that's irrelevent as this is classic spidey not current.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Sounds spooky,

but Spidey is Classic and does not have Webs or Sense to warn him

who wins?

he uses his 10 tons strength then to take Puck's two hands and shove it up his mouth for minutes, thereby either knocking him out or suffocating him.

Spider-man: why are you choking youself? why are choking yourself?

Originally posted by thesilverspider
I'm not to sure but the stingers might have a poisonus effect but that's irrelevent as this is classic spidey not current.

Puck's immune to poisons anyways, thanks to his upgrade.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That scan I posted was just classic Puck even before his upgrade, so yeah his reflexes are just as good.

I agree



Nope. WHat is Spider-Man even going to do to him?



Being compressed rubber kinda prevents that

But the speed of thought is < than the speed of a bullet at point blank range. And like i said 40x is pre-upgrade for spider-man.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
he uses his 10 tons strength then to take Puck's two hands and shove it up his mouth for minutes, thereby either knocking him out or suffocating him.

Spider-man: why are you choking youself? why are choking yourself?

Be realistic, Puck is the better fighter and has way more expeirence. Hell if that did happen Puck could do his fake sleep trick on Spider-Man and take him out.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
he uses his 10 tons strength then to take Puck's two hands and shove it up his mouth for minutes, thereby either knocking him out or suffocating him.

Spider-man: why are you choking youself? why are choking yourself?

But I thought Puck's upgrade gave him 10 ton strength aswell?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
But the speed of thought is < than the speed of a bullet at point blank range. And like i said 40x is pre-upgrade for spider-man.

Puck use to dodge bullets as well, and that was in classic form.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But I thought Puck's upgrade gave him 10 ton strength aswell?

It did

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Be realistic, Puck is the better fighter and has way more expeirence. Hell if that did happen Puck could do his fake sleep trick on Spider-Man and take him out.

Sure he can Anyway, fake sleep = KO = self-incapacitation. I mean who the hell would want to sleep in an arena fight. Might've worked if it's a scenario match.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Puck use to dodge bullets as well, and that was in classic form.



It did


So Spidey can't force his arms into his mouth with brute strength, what's that guy talking about

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Sure he can Anyway, fake sleep = KO = self-incapacitation. I mean who the hell would want to sleep in an arena fight. Might've worked if it's a scenario match.

It worked against the Master, a guy who knocked out Namor in one hit. Why wouldn't that be a good time to use it, he's choking you and you play dead and when their guard is down you attack. That would be the best time to use it. Also he doesn't actually sleep he is fully councious, and can reawake when ever he wants.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Puck use to dodge bullets as well, and that was in classic form.



It did

he is? ....well that didn't turned out good for spider-man

Originally posted by King_Mungi
It worked against the Master, a guy who knocked out Namor in one hit. Why wouldn't that be a good time to use it, he's choking you and you play dead and when their guard is down you attack. That would be the best time to use it. Also he doesn't actually sleep he is fully councious, and can reawake when ever he wants.

he can but without anything to distract spider-man to look the other way for the fake sleep to work, what do you think would happen?

Originally posted by Mr Master
So Spidey can't force his arms into his mouth with brute strength, what's that guy talking about

10 tons for spider-man was mere a formality. He has lifted well above than those limits. He even manage to support a column of the daily bugle building at one time.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
he is? ....well that didn't turned out good for spider-man

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-PuckB.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-17-1_cover_b.jpg

Spider-Man stats:
1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-Spider-ManB.jpg

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
he can but without anything to distract spider-man to look the other way for the fake sleep to work, what do you think would happen?

With Puck's skill and experience anything. He is one of the most skilled fighters in the Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-PuckB.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-17-1_cover_b.jpg

Spider-Man stats:
1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-Spider-ManB.jpg



With Puck's skill and experience anything. He is one of the most skilled fighters in the Marvel Universe.

It's official

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's official

What did you think I was lying?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
What did you think I was lying?

lol,

not at all but scans have a way of asserting facts

Originally posted by Mr Master
But I thought Puck's upgrade gave him 10 ton strength aswell?

The bio posted said he was in the 2-10 ton range.... i doubt he's at the full 10

Originally posted by Scoobless
The bio posted said he was in the 2-10 ton range.... i doubt he's at the full 10

It's unknown for sure, he never showed many strength feats other than damaging a Wendigo monster by punching it in the balls.

Originally posted by Scoobless
The bio posted said he was in the 2-10 ton range.... i doubt he's at the full 10

Well actually he's class 10, and in the Marvel Universe handbook that means he can lift 10 tons

Spiderman 4 the win.

Originally posted by soleran30
Spiderman 4 the win.

How?

Originally posted by Mr Master
lol,

not at all but scans have a way of asserting facts

Wait a minute. If he did get an upgrade and since this bio is probably the most recent, does that mean he was quite a lot weaker before?

And suppose that is, why are we matching current puck with old spider-man?

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Wait a minute. If he did get an upgrade and since this bio is probably the most recent, does that mean he was quite a lot weaker before?

And suppose that is, why are we matching current puck with old spider-man?

No that's a fairly old bio and classic Puck was peak human. 3'6 and he weighs 225lbs...haha
1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/TheMarvelUniverse-08_008_28_rougher.jpg

He has been in this upgrade since Alpha Flight #90 , he has had it for a long time. In a recent bio that forgot he got the upgrade and went by classic stats ie Puck human strength and durability they never mentioned the Master experiments.

1. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/ME2-064.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/ME2-240.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well actually he's class 10, and in the Marvel Universe handbook that means he can lift 10 tons

He's class 10 in a handbook that has this definition for "class 10"

Strength: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman strength. Prior to just being a dwarf he had peak human strength, but now he is Superhuman Class 10. That's the ability to press 2-10 tons.

Originally posted by Scoobless
He's class 10 in a handbook that has this definition for "class 10"

Strength: After the experimentations from The Master and having his body compressed, Puck gained superhuman strength. Prior to just being a dwarf he had peak human strength, but now he is Superhuman Class 10. That's the ability to press 2-10 tons.

I wrote that strength entry you just posted

meh.... Puck still can't lift ten tons.... there's just no freakin' way

Originally posted by Scoobless
meh.... Puck still can't lift ten tons.... there's just no freakin' way

Not saying your wrong, but why not?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Not saying your wrong, but why not?

I've seen a few of your scans and a few of his appearances in Wolverine and other comics.... not once have i seen him do anything that suggests he's class 10...... i'm not even sure he's as strong as the Beast (2 tons)

Originally posted by Scoobless
I've seen a few of your scans and a few of his appearances in Wolverine and other comics.... not once have i seen him do anything that suggests he's class 10...... i'm not even sure he's as strong as the Beast (2 tons)

Which apperances? since there is actually two classic Puck's running around the Marvel Universe plus his daughter. He is for sure at least 2 tons, but I don't know his full strength,