Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

All characters are ROTS. ('Cept Kar Vastor, who is just Shatterpoint Vastor)

Takes place in the jungles of Haruun Kal (An open enough space for them to fight however)

The Jedi get their Lightsabers and Vastor gets his Lightsaber resistant vibroshields (He uses 2 of them)

There are no Character sympathies (like Mace and Kar's rivalry)

Everyone can use the Force, Anything goes.

Who wins?

I'd say this would be one brutal fight, but Yoda and Anakin would come out on top. But both would be hurting at least, Anakin might be dead...lol

Mace Windu would win this alone. I don't eve need any prood besides the fact that he's Samuel L. Jackson.

Yoda and Anakin would win by a slim margin. Mace and Yoda would battle it out and yoda would win but only just. Meanwhile anakin would turn all darkside and take his anger out on Kar Vastor but still get whipped. Then yoda and Kar Vastor battle and yoda would come out on top.

Really? Anakin with a lightsaber > Kar Vastor.

Kar has all the raw power of Anakin and a big size advantage, but no where near the training and skill. I don't see him and his doshalo winning this.

Yoda fights Mace, Anakin fights Kar Vastor. Yoda beats Mace after a long, hard duel. kar vs. Anakin could come out either way. if Kar manages to kill Anakin, though, Yoda'd kill Kar, so either way Yoda and Anakin win.

Your forgetting that in the forest Kar has a huge advantage, while the Jedi would be really screwed up by the mass amount of Darkside energy in the forest. Mace would slip into a deep Vapaad fury and Anakin would just lose it completely (most likely). Kar however knows the jungle and he is used to the force flowing through him in that way, so he is in uber darkside mode, but without the uncontrollable rage and fury that the Jedi would experience. Yoda would be able to resist it, but even Yoda has a hard time seeing through the force while resisting the Darkside (see LOE). Meaning it would cloud Yoda's force sight, and powers. This puts Kar at an advantage because Anakins higher skill and training would be moot seeing as he would just lose his temper and start making stupid mistakes.

I put the setting as Haruun Kal because I wanted to even out the 'Kar having less skill and traning' disadvantage compared to the Jedi.

I still think Anakin and Yoda would win, but perhaps only 6/10 or something along those lines.

This is no easy fight for Yoda and Anakin, not by a long shot. They could very well lose if Kar gets lucky and kills Anakin.

The Vaapad Master and the lor pelek VS. The Grandmaster of the Jedi Order and the Chosen One.

I'd like to see this fight to be honest.

I never said it'd be easy...

Mercy is for the weak, we do not train to be merciful here. A man faces you, he is an enemy, an enemy deserves no mercy, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM MR LAWRENCE..

Ooops.

WTF? Kar was described as being invincible in the jungles, where the raw Force flowed through him, and he through it. He healed from Mace's blows in seconds, then just got up and pwned him each time. Anakin would put up a good fight, but I don't see him coming out on top against Kar any time soon, especially in the jungle.

And you guys are missing the idea of Vastor. Depa describes him as ''the future of the Jedi,'' what the Knights must become to protect the Republic. Mace notes that he cannot imagine any Jedi doing what Kar did when he coaxed thousands of parasites out of the bodies of two people, and had them burn themselves in a fire. So he's not behind the Jedi in power and skill by any stretch of the imagination.

In the jungle, Mace and Kar win, hands down.

What he said ^

Faunus brings up good points.

I agree with Faunus, in a jungle, Yoda and Anakin are ****ed beyond the telling of it. They won't go down easily, but Mace and Kar definitely have the advantage here.

Forest or not, he's still gonna be screwed if he gets decipatated. He's not gonna heal from that. And no one said he'd behind these Jedi, but he is probably the weakest of the four, possibly stronger than Anakin in the jungle.

The parasite thing is an amazing feat, but its still a feat. How is sucking parasites outta someone gonna help Kar against the most powerful Jedi in 800 years and the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order. Kar has a lot of Raw Force power, and the Jungle gives him an advantage, but he still is untrained and unskilled compared to the Jedi who have spent their whole lives training. (Yoda spending 800 years training).

And the "healing" from Mace's blows isnt that amazing, Kar was just hella bigger and more powerful then Mace (physically). Mace kicked the crap outta Kar, pretty hardcore, but Mace just didn't have the physical power to hurt Kar all that much. Nothing amazing there, his physical size and durability are not going to help him if a lightsaber gets stabbed through his face.

And Kar does NOT have the same Raw power as Anakin and Yoda, Mace simply said that he was in the same league as Anakin and Yoda. Mace is the weakest in terms of raw Force ability in this fight, but he is still the second most skilled Force user in this fight. Raw power is great, but it means nothing without the ability to utilize it. If it did then Anakin would be unstoppable, which he is obviously not.

If Yoda fought Mace and Anakin fought Kar then Yoda would beat Mace, in a long good fight, and Anakin and Kar would probably end up in a stand off unless one of them gets lucky. And luck can go either way.

Thats why I'd say since Yoda beats Mace 9/10 times and Kar and Anakin end up in a stand off about 9/10 times, then Yoda and Anakin win since once Yoda is finished with Mace, he and Anakin would completely overwhelm Kar.

But it wont be an easy fight for any of them anyways because they are all so powerful. Like I said, if Kar gets lucky and does kill Anakin, then Yoda goes down, and Mace and Kar win. But that will only happen prolly 4/10 times.

Yoda and Anakin 6/10

Hmm... Honestly? Mace's raw power is what makes him the SIC on the council in power. But even Mace's methodical and intelligent approach was undermined by the jungle and Kar's incredible force powers. Now, I don't see how ROTS Anakin is going to pwn him at his own game of aggressive approach when Obi-Wan effectively floored Anakin and let's face it- Kar would make Obi-Wan his ***** in a fight.

Likewise, I'm not so sure Yoda is going to overcome Mace in any short amount of time. After all, Mace floored Sidious in under a minute with little effort, while Yoda hammered at both Dooku and Sidious and both held up for a considerable amount of time. The amount of energy being wasted on flipping was not equal to the amount of pwnage, sorry.

My vote goes for Mace and Kar, because the jungle gives both a serious advantage, and Anakin is likely to get torn apart.

Under a minute? Mace and Sidious were at least fighting for 5 minutes...

You must have watched a different fight then.

2 minutes, 3 tops

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Hmm... Honestly? Mace's raw power is what makes him the SIC on the council in power. But even Mace's methodical and intelligent approach was undermined by the jungle and Kar's incredible force powers. Now, I don't see how ROTS Anakin is going to pwn him at his own game of aggressive approach when Obi-Wan effectively floored Anakin and let's face it- Kar would make Obi-Wan his ***** in a fight.

Likewise, I'm not so sure Yoda is going to overcome Mace in any short amount of time. After all, Mace floored Sidious in under a minute with little effort, while Yoda hammered at both Dooku and Sidious and both held up for a considerable amount of time. The amount of energy being wasted on flipping was not equal to the amount of pwnage, sorry.

My vote goes for Mace and Kar, because the jungle gives both a serious advantage, and Anakin is likely to get torn apart.

Mace does not have the raw power of Yoda, Anakin, or Kar, he admits it in Shatterpoint (2 times for Yoda)

Kar is powerful, no doubt, thats why I made this fight so that it would be a real even fight. The main problem is we never really saw Kar fight in a full out duel against a trained lightsaber user. We have no idea how he'd fair, and these 3 Jedi are in the top tier of saber combat masters in the Jedi Order. Anakin would hardly get "torn apart", not by a long shot.

Mace kicked Kar's ass with Vaapad in Shatterpoint he just didn't have enough physical power to keep Kar down for the count, Kar was just too (physically) strong and more durable. Mace just wasn't strong enough. If he say, fought Anakin hand to hand (or any normal physical sized and powered person) He'd have handed their ass to them. But a mammoth man with enormous physical strength who has lived and survived in the jungle for his whole life is a different story. But that doesn't mean that Mace wouldn't win if he had a lightsaber, actually, I think Mace would win if he did, he was far too fast for Kar with his hands, there's no reason to think Kar would get magically faster when using his shields.

As for the Mace beat Sidious easier argument, thats an A>B>C argument, its not worth anything. Maybe Mace's Vaapad was too much for Sidious to handle, who knows. But just cause Mace beat Sidious and Yoda did not doesn't mean that Yoda couldn't beat Mace. And Dooku ran from Yoda, they didn't fight for very long before Dooku got the hell outta there. The fight (saber) lasted about a minute or so before Dooku booked it. Yoda was only being defensive during the force fight. Yoda made Dooku look like a child in the force duel, and didn't actually attack Dooku at all, he just let Dooku throw whatever he wanted at him and casually threw all the attacks aside. Which is why Dooku went to a saber fight, he knew he'd get WTFpwned if he kept trying to beat Yoda with the force.

In short, Yoda Pwns!

Yes, such is the case in most situations I think..lol

eh, you guys were right. 3 minutes.

I agree with Mace and Kar winning. Kar is very powerful, Mace said himself he would never be able to defeat Kar in a fair fight.. and Anakin is out of his league here I think, whoever he faces he gets torn apart pretty quickly.

Yep. Either Mace or Kar would beat him into the ground here, and I certainly don't see Yoda defeating the most skilled and powerful descendants of a Force-sensitive race: especially when they're big black men with lightsabers.

What if they fought the other way round and Anakin fought Mace and Yoda fought Kar.I think Yoda would smash Kar and if Anakin could hold of Mace for long enough they would double team him.

Yoda wouldn't ''smash'' Kar by any means. Force pushes? He took beatings from Mace that'd put down a rancor. Lightsaber? Mace doubted his own capability against Kar, saber or not. In the meantime, Anakin would be busy getting his Chosen ass strew around Haruun Kal, and finally the Koruun duo would trash Kermit.

OK Yoda might not get 'smashed' by Kar but I think Yoda would win eventually. He is to agile and has the better fighting style.

He'd eventually win: I'm not arguing that. But in the jungle, on Kar's turf, he's going to get kicked the **** around first. And he's certainly not going to pull a win before Anakin gets pwned silly.

Actually I hope they all just kill each other. Mace and his purple lightsaber really get on my nerve and then add his 'im da man' attitude and that ruins my Star Wars experience. Yoda is a two footass hole who is so arrogant he didnt notice that Palpatine was the Dark Lord of the Sith plus his accent pisses me off. I dont really know enough about Kar to have an opinion but he can die just for my enjoyment. Finally there is Anakin who chopped off the great Count Dookus head which caused the whole Star Wars saga to be ruined.

Originally posted by Faunus
Yep. Either Mace or Kar would beat him into the ground here, and I certainly don't see Yoda defeating the most skilled and powerful descendants of a Force-sensitive race: especially when they're big black men with lightsabers.

Mace is the only black man with a lightsaber in this fight.

Kar is too, dude.

Kar doesn't have a lightsaber.

. . .

Neither did Durge. Having a lightsaber isn't a prerequisite for pwning jedi, especially if you read the source material.

And Durge pwned lots of Jedi.

Uh, didn't Mace remark that he would beat Kar pretty easily if he used a lightsaber? That Mace was restraining himself from using it...?

Yeh, If they were on tatooine, but no not in the jungle. Especially not against Kar!

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
Uh, didn't Mace remark that he would beat Kar pretty easily if he used a lightsaber? That Mace was restraining himself from using it...?


Not really... He ended up using his own weapons against him because he couldn't defeat him in straight blade combat.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Neither did Durge. Having a lightsaber isn't a prerequisite for pwning jedi, especially if you read the source material.
Reading comperhension is your friend. ((The_Anomaly)) said that Mace is the only black dude with a lightsaber, you said Kar is too, I saidn he's not cause he doesn't have a lightsaber.

Yes, but you didn't reference that point; you just said "he's the only black guy" without any reference, so I corrected you.

Common sense is your ally.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yes, but you didn't reference that point; you just said "he's the only black guy" without any reference, so I corrected you.

Common sense is your ally.
I never said he's the only black guy, I said "Kar doesn't have a lightsaber." A simple statement. Reading Comprehension is your friend. Use it.

Yes, Kar uses Vibroshields, not a lightsaber. Thats why I said Mace is the only black man with a lightsaber in this fight, because he is. lol

Anyways, Mace couldn't beat Kar in a "straight" fight after being stabbed through the stomach by Depa's lightsaber. Mace was exhausted and hurtin really REALLY badly when he and Kar dueled.

lol, the poll is 50/50

Who cares about the poll, people that use the poll are the ones who don't actually post an argument.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Actually I hope they all just kill each other. Mace and his purple lightsaber really get on my nerve and then add his 'im da man' attitude and that ruins my Star Wars experience. Yoda is a two footass hole who is so arrogant he didnt notice that Palpatine was the Dark Lord of the Sith plus his accent pisses me off. I dont really know enough about Kar to have an opinion but he can die just for my enjoyment. Finally there is Anakin who chopped off the great Count Dookus head which caused the whole Star Wars saga to be ruined.

Mace WIndu IS the man. Dooku's a P*ssy anyways... Fat bastard.

Originally posted by tdtd
Who cares about the poll, people that use the poll are the ones who don't actually post an argument.

Polls blow.

I still remember one poll where every informed individual chose Nadd yet there were still invisible members that decided Sidious would win.

lol

All I said was the poll was 50/50...

just thought it was interesting...no need to jump down my throat for no reason tdtd. You tend to do that...you should really work on that.

I didnt actually say it mattered, just that it was 50/50, which its not anymore.

I voted in favor of Mace because balance disturbs me and I always bet on black.

LOL

Originally posted by Blaxican_Hydra
Mace WIndu IS the man. Dooku's a P*ssy anyways... Fat bastard.
I agree that Mace Windu is the WOman. How can you not like Count Dooku though. He is charasmatic strong and would kick anyones ass, especially Mace Windus

Oh really? And you base ths on what?

I base it on the fact he practices a style of dueling based on lightsaber vs lightsaber combat. The only way Mace would have a chance against the great Count Dooku would be if he picked up a blaster and started shooting him.

Just because Makashi is designed for lightsaber vs lightsaber combat, it doesn't mean that it is the best form for saber dueling. IMO Mace Windu with his style of Vaapad and his shatterpoint ability is a greater dueler then Dooku with his style of Makashi.

Actually, Makashi is the "Refinement of saber to saber duelling". That would make it the best style for saber to saber combat, apparently. I realize that Vaapad sounds kickass and was totally hyped, but nowhere does it say or show that Vaapad is better than Makashi at what Makashi is made for.

I see where you are coming from, but Vaapad is nether specifically stated to be designed for a single type of combat (unlike Soresu (blaster fire) and Makashi (lightsaber)) but is stated to be the most deadly of all of the forms, and every practitioner that we have seen has always been exceptional at saber dueling (Sora Bulq and Depa Billaba were exceptional). Plus the fact that Mace Windu created Vaapad and the fact that he utilises his shatterpoint ability put him on a whole different level IMO.

Form II
The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat became Form II, advancing the precision of blade manipulation to its finest possible degree and producing the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen.
Today Form II is an archaism studied by almost no one in the Jedi Order, because it is not relevant to current tactical situations, in which Jedi enemies rarely fight with lightsabers. Even with the resurgence of the Sith, confrontation of an enemy with a lightsaber is an exceedingly rare prospect for a Jedi, so they continue to focus on more practical Forms. Sith expecting to battle lightsaber-wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique.

Form VII
Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate descipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion than even Form V, yet masters it more fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. Form VII is still under development since so few can achieve the necessary mastery to advance the art.

Source: Author Dr. David West Reynolds and fencer Jack "Stelen" Bobo derived the "in universe" principles of lightsaber combat based on the action that appears in all five Star Wars films to date. An importance notice to the reader: these Jedi histories are not stunt choreographies nor intructions from Episodes I and II Stunt Coordinator Nick Gillard, who developed the exciting sequences we see on screen. Do not attempt fencing without proper safety precautions and training.

See this article and other exciting information in Issue 62 of Star Wars Insider.

Really, it isn't in the original author's intent of the form, and while I remember Shatterpoint the novel all but fellating the form, it was the Shatterpoint technique that made Vaapad more dangerous than just any other form, along with his borderline darkside philosophy.
Yes, Mace is likely very comparable to Dooku for sheer skill and ability, and a battle between them would be intense, but Vaapad itself isn't superior to Makashi. Dooku would WTFrape any other practitioner of the form with relative ease.

Depa would be a challenge, I'd say, but he's already disposed of Bulq with impunity:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/JawaKing_987/DookusWrath.jpg

That looks like an owned pic.

Damn. I forgot the ''pwn3d'' at the bottom of my post.

I believe Mace is the only master of the form?(correct me if Im wrong)


It wouldnt be fair to judge the strength of Vaapad in comparison to Makashi when Dooku is a master of his form, whereas Bulq was not.

But the initial point was that to even begin to grasp Vaapad, one must have extensive knowledge of other forms. And Sora's fought Makashi users before, such as what's his face with the dreadlocks. Vos.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
But the initial point was that to even begin to grasp Vaapad, one must have extensive knowledge of other forms. And Sora's fought Makashi users before, such as what's his face with the dreadlocks. Vos.

Who won?

You should probably ask Faunus about the details of that fight.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Who won?

I dunno, actually. I used to know, but I don't like Vos or Sora much so I don't read the comics with them in it.