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1. Darth Malak
2. Darth Sion
3. ROTS Darth Sidious and Darth Vader (before getting injured)
4. Darth Revan
5. DE Sidious
6. NJO Luke
7. Exar Kun

I doubt they can take NJO Luke at this point. If by some miracle they get through this, Kun probably wins..

How much rest do they get in-between each match?

Assuming they have a full rest in between each match, I don't see them getting past 6. Maybe even 5.

unlikely that they can defeat NJO Luke.

Full rest or a time period or rest?

They don't make it past 6.

Has everyone forgot about Sion. How are they supposed to defeat him.

Originally posted by hord06
Has everyone forgot about Sion. How are they supposed to defeat him.

Read the rules of the fight

What rules?

ooops, wrong fight.... Gay

lol

tdtd WTFpwnd himself.

And it won't be the last time.

Ouch.. That hurts children, please stop this internet abuse before I sue you like the star wars kid, for 350,000... Ouch..

Oh and FYI it's not that I 'wtfpwn' myself, which rarely happens contrary to the popular belief of people that live in denial, it's that I just don't care..

'Ata boy.

Thanks troll.

Originally posted by tdtd
Ouch.. That hurts children, please stop this internet abuse before I sue you like the star wars kid, for 350,000... Ouch..

Oh and FYI it's not that I 'wtfpwn' myself, which rarely happens contrary to the popular belief of people that live in denial, it's that I just don't care..


IF you didn't care you wouldn't bother replying to it. You felt the need to defend yourself.

Hmm... Faulty conclusion. Because I don't care that means I can't respond? I couldn't respond just because I wanted to? Interesting.

Actually, he probably just wanted to make a sarcastic statement, and to put you in your place Blax.

No! Me? Never

Originally posted by Tangible God
Actually, he probably just wanted to make a sarcastic statement, and to put you in your place Blax.

Whats my place?

under my table

The place where you don't say he wtfpwned himself.

Man, you guys have dished out some harsh insults here, I don't know whether to cry or give you my lunch money, or both. I bet you two are the thugs/bullies of your local high school/community college.

Originally posted by Tangible God
The place where you don't say he wtfpwned himself.


ah. So he put me i nthe place were I shouldn't have said he WTFpwnd himself?

Oh and tdtd I wouldnt fit under your table. I'm an over 6 foot tall black man for gods sakes.

Originally posted by tdtd
Man, you guys have dished out some harsh insults here, I don't know whether to cry or give you my lunch money, or both. I bet you two are the thugs/bullies of your local high school/community college. My high school was so overpopulated that we had a UNION of bullies.

lol

Originally posted by jollyjim311
How much rest do they get in-between each match?
Full rest. if one of them die they come back for the next battle (if the other one manages to get past the one the first one died in).

Originally posted by tdtd
Man, you guys have dished out some harsh insults here, I don't know whether to cry or give you my lunch money, or both. I bet you two are the thugs/bullies of your local high school/community college.
haha

lol

Anyway, back to the fight. I think they could make it all the way. Together, I just don't see them losing to any of these people.

I do. I see them having a ***** of a time with DE Sidious, with NJO Luke being just too much. Kun would rape them both.

Kun or NJO Luke would take them

Originally posted by tdtd
Kun or NJO Luke would take them
Meh... maybe Kun could. Can his amulet blasts by deflected by lightsabers?

Thats the controversy, tdtd, claims it can, but possbly only for NJO/DN Luke, but from the evidence we have, they cannot be. Consider that they are thicker than a lightsaber.

I don't see them making past DE Sidious though.

please don't ask that because we're going to have all the fan boys come in to this thread. If you ask me, I would break down his amulet blasts to have the same effect as the AT-AT. I don't care if they are a manifestation of the force, they were both shown to do the same thing, so nothing suggests that Kun's blasts are more powerful. Can it be blocked by a lightsaber? Possibly, depending on the skills of the user. We saw Luke block the AT-AT blasts rather easily... ANd yes I'm claiming this because I have something to work with in the AT-AT blasts. This is of course, if you're assuming the AT-AT blasts are thinner than Kun's blasts or are less powerful

Originally posted by tdtd
please don't ask that because we're going to have all the fan boys come in to this thread. If you ask me, I would break down his amulet blasts to have the same effect as the AT-AT. I don't care if they are a manifestation of the force, they were both shown to do the same thing, so nothing suggests that Kun's blasts are more powerful. Can it be blocked by a lightsaber? Possibly, depending on the skills of the user. We saw Luke block the AT-AT blasts rather easily... ANd yes I'm claiming this because I have something to work with in the AT-AT blasts. This is of course, if you're assuming the AT-AT blasts are thinner than Kun's blasts or are less powerful

Consider that the Amulet blasts are not a single shot, they are continous, Luke deflected the AT-AT blasts, however the possiblity of Luke holding his own, against a thicker, force based beam is very unlikely. The Amulet blasts fires a continous thick line at its intended target and it literally rips past Naga Sadow's monster, to my knowledge AT-AT blasts when they hit an object their laser is obstructed and they do not "go through" however when you view the Amulet Blasts, they rip past their first obstacle with relative ease. I don't see how you can compare them, since the Blasts are moreso of a continous beam rather than the single shots AT-AT's produce, i don't see how they have the same effect, since the AT AT blasts when obstructed, lose their power, and the Amulet Blasts merely tear through its obstacle and goes on.

Well if the amulet blasts can be blocked by a lightsaber, then Kun isn't as good as people like IKC make him out to be. However we're not sure if they can be so I would have to say that Mace and Yoda lose at Kun.

Kun, has more than just Amulet Blasts Purple Saber, he is above NJO Luke and below DN Luke.

His Freezing Spell demonstrates his power, his prowess with the Double Bladed Lightsaber show's his skill. Consider the number of sources we have on Luke and then on Kun, you can't effectively compare with feats as Kun will evidently lose, however its already been proven and tdtd has agreed that it goes :

NJO Luke < Exar Kun < DN Luke

Yes, I agree NJO Luke<Exar Kun<DN Luke..However...

The amulet blasts were NOT continuous blasts, Kun only used it once before he was scared to death of it. It nearly killed him. The AT-AT blasts tear through everything just as well as Kun's blasts, there's no way to put one ahead of another.

Nevermind I see what you mean by continuous now.. And either way, it's hard to say which one is better and I didn't say Luke COULD necessarily block the blasts, but it is a possibility since we've seen him block something as powerful as an AT-AT blast.

They lose at 6, if not, then definitely at 7.

Originally posted by hord06
Has everyone forgot about Sion? How are they supposed to defeat him?

Originally posted by hord06
Has everyone forgot about Sion? How are they supposed to defeat him?

Chop his head off. He can't recover from that.

Simus could.

touche

Just something to consider. We don't actually know the limit of Sion's powers. He's holding his body together piece by piece, with thousands of breaks and fractures. It IS possible that he can live as a head. But that's still a KO, unless he latches on to your ankle or something.

Yea but he's alive due to his pure hatred and complete allegiance to the dark side. Nothing suggests that he knows any ancient sith alchemy to stay alive though.

Yeah, that whole spending a few years on Malachor V, sith library and training academy, probably didn't teach him anything.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Chop his head off. He can't recover from that.

Don't you think that the Exile would have done that if Sion couldn't recover from it?

NJO Luke and Exar a too much for the duo but Sidious is what bothers me. I would like to see that fight!!! It is very close and it would be spectacular but i think they can take him out.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yeah, that whole spending a few years on Malachor V, sith library and training academy, probably didn't teach him anything.



Oh yes because Simus passed down all of his sith alchemy to Sadow, who passed it down to Nadd, etc.... Right..

No, you're making the claim that Sion DIDN'T learn ANY Sith lore. You're also assuming only Simus knew that technique. I'm pointing out there's no proof either way.

Out of all the SW characters we know Simus was the only one to use it, so it is logical to assume that he was the only one that knew that technique. On another note, it is an ancient sith technique, therefore Sion couldn't have known it. I didn't say Sion didn't know any Sith Magic, but certainly not any ancient sith techniques.

Sith Maigc IS an Ancient Sith Technique.

Errr I meant that he knew sith techniques but it's logical to assume that he didn't learn any ancient sith magic, as the opportunity to do so died with Exar Kun.

What do you think he did in the many years he was on Malachor V? And the opportunity wasn't totally gone, as Sidious knew Sith Magic.

Sidous visited Korriban somewhere between episode 4 and 6, so I would assume he learned something there, if not from the Jedi Holocron. I don't know what the hell Sion learned, but he's never shown to know sith magic, doesn't mean he doesn't but we can't just assume that he knew it.

What else do you think he used to hold his body together? Sith Magic is the only thing known to sustain people after a fatal wound. Sion did that, so logically he knew Sith Magic. BTW, you fight Sion on Korriban. He spent a good amount of time there.

Shit I forgot about that. I always thought his hatred is the only thing that kept him together. Still nothing suggests of course, that he know the technique that Simus knew, which would be totally different altogether.

Why would it be totally different? It's the same concept.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
What do you think he did in the many years he was on Malachor V? And the opportunity wasn't totally gone, as Sidious knew Sith Magic.

He obviously didn't learn enough to confront Traya or Nihilus and I doubt that he can keep parts of his body where they are if they are cut off. Obviously he has just one eye and is physically blind which shouldn't be the case if he can do that.

So Yoda and Mace are pretty likely going to cut him into nice pieces but they would probably go down at NJO Luke or Kun - I don't know.

I was always under the impression that through his sheer will, he was able to keep his body held together, in other words he would be able to prevent his body from coming apart under all circumstances.

That's what I thought too, then again I forgot that Sion was on Korriban so forget it.

They fall at Sion.

Being the SOB that he is, Yoda and Mace aren't getting past him.

I highly doubt Sion could handle either 1 in a 1 on 1 battle, both of them is too much.

But they simply wouldn't be able to physically kill him, so unless Yoda has some advanced force powers that he's been hiding, the jedi are toast.

That's assuming Sion could outduel either one of them or both at the same time, even if they don't kill Sion, it's not like he doesn't get tired.

Sion doesn't have to be killed, he simply has to be rendered unable to battle.

If he gets hacked up beyond all recognition, he's not going to continue.

But if through sheer he is able to hold his body together, then surely any attack of a physical nature would have no effect him at all.

Right, but after getting hacked up 50+ times, he's not going to have the will to keep fight now is he?

If he can hold his body together through sheer will, then a lightsaber would simply not be able to hack him into pieces.

Indeed, his only weakness is Kreia.

Having enough will to hold every single body part together, means that a lightsaber strikes will be ineffective. Most likely by then, Yoda and Mace would be dead, since they will be too tired out to continue and Sion would have struck them down.

You're missing the point, those two could hack him into pieces millions of times, and he would lose the will to continue fighting.

I think he would also be vulnerable to any intangible attacks, such as Darth Nihilus' force hunger attack.

That's irrelevant though

It was in response to Zephiel saying that his only weakness is Kreia.

ohok

Originally posted by tdtd
You're missing the point, those two could hack him into pieces millions of times, and he would lose the will to continue fighting.

They wouldn't be able to hack him into pieces because his will was strong enough to prevent his body from coming apart.

You don't know how strong his will was bro, you can't quantify it.

He goes down at Kun

Argument? Anything? Why don't you show us how those two would get past NJO Luke.

They go down at Sion because they cant kill him. If you assume he can be killed(uncertain), then they go down at DE Sidious no question.

Very unlikely both Sion and DE Sidious alone can contend with Yoda and Mace. They die at NJO Luke.

Originally posted by tdtd
Very unlikely both Sion and DE Sidious alone can contend with Yoda and Mace. They die at NJO Luke.

If you assume Sion can be killed(by decapitation or something) then they get past Sion. They dont get past DE Sidious regardless, he is in a different tier.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
If you assume Sion can be killed(by decapitation or something) then they get past Sion. They dont get past DE Sidious regardless, he is in a different tier.


Nice logic, but unfortunately opinion/speculation are logical fallacies, provide proof. DE Sidious individually is more powerful than both of them, but he won't be able to take them on at the same time.. And don't bring in the idea of force storm because he won't have time to create it.

Originally posted by tdtd
Nice logic, but unfortunately opinion/speculation are logical fallacies, provide proof. DE Sidious individually is more powerful than both of them, but he won't be able to take them on at the same time.. And don't bring in the idea of force storm because he won't have time to create it.


Lol...


It is your opinion/speculation that Yoda and Mace would win. I will however back up my claim:


-You even admit DE Sidious could take them both individually, and SW history reflects a stronger opponent usually defeats multiple weaker opponents.

-DE Sidious has powers Yoda and Mace have never experienced before, they will be caught off guard from the very beginning.

-If Sidious can get off his force storm, its over...how do you know Sidious wouldnt be able to hold out long enough? I find it unlikely, considering DE Sidious is more powerful than both of them individually, that Yoda or Mace would be able to break Sidious' defense in time.

-And if all else fails, Sidious transports them both straight into the sun scoring an instapwn.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Lol...


It is your opinion/speculation that Yoda and Mace would win. I will however back up my claim:


-You even admit DE Sidious could take them both individually, and SW history reflects a stronger opponent usually defeats multiple weaker opponents.

-DE Sidious has powers Yoda and Mace have never experienced before, they will be caught off guard from the very beginning.

-If Sidious can get off his force storm, its over...how do you know Sidious wouldnt be able to hold out long enough? I find it unlikely, considering DE Sidious is more powerful than both of them individually, that Yoda or Mace would be able to break Sidious' defense in time.

-And if all else fails, Sidious transports them both straight into the sun scoring an instapwn.

history reflects? Oh I see, because Dooku defeated Anakin and Obiwan, he sets the standard right? Lol.. What powers does DE Sidious have besides force storm, that Yoda and Mace haven't seen before? Sidious CANT get off his force storm, it's not an instant force attack. He'll get sliced before anything happens...Sorry, that's more realistic than your "logic".

Originally posted by tdtd
history reflects? Oh I see, because Dooku defeated Anakin and Obiwan, he sets the standard right? Lol.. What powers does DE Sidious have besides force storm, that Yoda and Mace haven't seen before? Sidious CANT get off his force storm, it's not an instant force attack. He'll get sliced before anything happens...Sorry, that's more realistic than your "logic".

1. Its basic logic, the stronger opponent should defeat multiple weaker opponents unless the scales are really unbalanced.


2. All he needs is force storm, along with his wormhole technique if he needs it, to own them both. Also DE Sidious can move REALLY fast, in his battle with Luke he was just a blur of dark energy...almost impossible to see without the aid of the force.


3. You seriously claim all I have is speculation, when your argument is... *he gets sliced before anything happens*. Theres little chance Mace and Yoda are going to break Sidious' defense in time to stop his force storm. And once again...if all else fails he just instapwns them with wormhole.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
1. Its basic logic, the stronger opponent should defeat multiple weaker opponents unless the scales are really unbalanced.


2. All he needs is force storm, along with his wormhole technique if he needs it, to own them both. Also DE Sidious can move REALLY fast, in his battle with Luke he was just a blur of dark energy...almost impossible to see without the aid of the force.


3. You seriously claim all I have is speculation, when your argument is... *he gets sliced before anything happens*. Theres little chance Mace and Yoda are going to break Sidious' defense in time to stop his force storm. And once again...if all else fails he just instapwns them with wormhole.

1. Who's logic, your logic or real logic?
2. yes, he can move really fast, but he's not going to be conjuring up a force storm while he's moving really fast now is he?
3. I have basis for my argument, in the fact that Yoda and Mace were #1 and #2 and nothing suggests that Sidious can hold them both off.

Originally posted by tdtd
1. Who's logic, your logic or real logic?
2. yes, he can move really fast, but he's not going to be conjuring up a force storm while he's moving really fast now is he?
3. I have basis for my argument, in the fact that Yoda and Mace were #1 and #2 and nothing suggests that Sidious can hold them both off.


Again you evade my main points, and waste my time. Come back when you learn how to debate. Im done.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Again you evade my main points, and waste my time. Come back when you learn how to debate. Im done.


Translation: I lost the argument, I have no debating skills, and I have no point, but I will unleash my projection on somebody else to sleep better at night.

It took Sidious seconds to summon a galactic scale Force Storm.

Here's a before

Originally posted by tdtd
Translation: I lost the argument, I have no debating skills, and I have no point, but I will unleash my projection on somebody else to sleep better at night.

How could I of lost the argument, when you never put up a decent resistence in the first place? Ill be here when you think you can actually support your side of the debate.

And voila, a few moments later (Unless Luke was just standing there forever).

http://www.swcomics.com/New_Republic_Era_c.php?i=24&f=9&name=Dark_Empire_6_of_6

I did prove my side big boy, you just chose to ignore it. But I'll repeat it for the simple minded.. DE Sidious won't be able to conjure up a force storm when he has two of the best saber users hacking at him, nor is he going to be able to conjure one up if he's busy dodging the sabers with his 'lightning speed'. That's called a mastery of multi tasking which very few people have...

Well, apparently he managed to do it while fighting Luke. So at least we know he can do it while fighting.

Originally posted by tdtd
I did prove my side big boy, you just chose to ignore it. But I'll repeat it for the simple minded.. DE Sidious won't be able to conjure up a force storm when he has two of the best saber users hacking at him, nor is he going to be able to conjure one up if he's busy dodging the sabers with his 'lightning speed'. That's called a mastery of multi tasking which very few people have...

DE Sidious can summon the force storm while fighting easily, hes already proved he could do it in his battle with Luke. Whoops there goes the basis of your argument.

Originally posted by tdtd
I did prove my side big boy, you just chose to ignore it. But I'll repeat it for the simple minded.. DE Sidious won't be able to conjure up a force storm when he has two of the best saber users hacking at him, nor is he going to be able to conjure one up if he's busy dodging the sabers with his 'lightning speed'. That's called a mastery of multi tasking which very few people have...
GV=PWNT

Ok but with GV's infallible logic, 1 of DE Luke= Yoda and Mace.. Also what's he going to do whle they're hacking at him, create a force storm and kill everybody including himself? That's assuming he creates one at all.

Originally posted by PurpleSaber
GV=PWNT


lol

Ok but with GV's infallible logic, 1 of DE Luke= Yoda and Mace.

No, but 1 of DE Luke + Force Allumination from Leia + Jaina should at least come close to Yoda and Mace.

Right and if you recall, he did NOT create the force storm at the same time as dueling with Luke. If it does indeed take him a mere seconds to create it, he is not doing it while fighting. You'd have to have unparalleled concentration to do something like that.

And I don't know what Force Illumination is, but she was using an elementary form of Battle Meditation

Originally posted by tdtd
Ok but with GV's infallible logic, 1 of DE Luke= Yoda and Mace.. Also what's he going to do whle they're hacking at him, create a force storm and kill everybody including himself? That's assuming he creates one at all.

My logic is infallible in comparison to yours.


DE Luke surpasses Yoda or Mace individually, he wouldnt defeat them both but there isnt that big of a difference.


Sidious wouldnt kill himself, he knows how to control it you know?

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
My logic is infallible in comparison to yours.


DE Luke surpasses Yoda or Mace individually, he wouldnt defeat them both but there isnt that big of a difference.


Sidious wouldnt kill himself, he knows how to control it you know?


Sure... Pwnt...I'm not even going to respond to your poor excuse for logic.. Well maybe for another pwning, let's try this again..

For Sidious to control a force storm, he has to concentrate, he can't just snap his fingers and create it. Now when you have 2 powerful force users+saber duelists slashing at you, you are going to lack that concentration.. Now lets say by some miracle he does create a force storm, how is he going to control it without concentration while getting slashed at? Quit while you're behind.

Right and if you recall, he did NOT create the force storm at the same time as dueling with Luke. If it does indeed take him a mere seconds to create it, he is not doing it while fighting. You'd have to have unparalleled concentration to do something like that.


Hm, then the only way Yoda and Sidious would be able to prevent would be instant agression. That's not always the case with Jedi.

If Sidious was not charging his cells in the fight against Luke, then it would only take him maybe 10 seconds at most to conjure it up. Unless Mace and Yoda go aggressive (against the Jedi Code) Sidious will fry them to oblivion.

Originally posted by tdtd
Sure... Pwnt...I'm not even going to respond to your poor excuse for logic.. Well maybe for another pwning, let's try this again..

For Sidious to control a force storm, he has to concentrate, he can't just snap his fingers and create it. Now when you have 2 powerful force users+saber duelists slashing at you, you are going to lack that concentration.. Now lets say by some miracle he does create a force storm, how is he going to control it without concentration while getting slashed at? Quit while you're behind.


*sigh*

Sidious *does* have the concentration to summon the storm while defending himself, and once the storm is summoned then its over for Mace and Yoda immediately.

Jesus christ are you retarded? Youre assuming Yoda and Mace are going to just stand around and watch the creation of the force storm, and then wait for it to hit them.. Use your head...

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
My logic is infallible in comparison to yours.


DE Luke surpasses Yoda or Mace individually, he wouldnt defeat them both but there isnt that big of a difference.


Sidious wouldnt kill himself, he knows how to control it you know?

That is a fallacious statement, DE Luke > Yoda and/or Mace now? Quite understandable as i know your a huge fan of DE, however a ROTJ Luke with only 9 years of training is not going to surpass, a Vaapad Master and a 900 old Revered Grand Master of the Order.

Yes he can control it, however it requires immense concentration and power to do so, thus he will not be able to fend off both Yoda's and Mace's attacks whilst performing his force storm, this meaning he cannot use it without getting slashed into pieces.

GV, i doubt anyone is going to agree with you, thus your comment on your logic being "infallible" is quite amusing. You think DE Sidious > DN Luke, as you specifically stated that DE Sidious is the SW Force God. Indeed a huge logical fallacy.

indeed

That is a fallacious statement, DE Luke > Yoda and/or Mace now? Quite understandable as i know your a huge fan of DE, however a ROTJ Luke with only 9 years of training is not going to surpass, a Vaapad Master and a 900 old Revered Grand Master of the Order.

He may not have, but he's still on par with them

Youre assuming Yoda and Mace are going to just stand around and watch the creation of the force storm, and then wait for it to hit them.. Use your head...

Luke did. He didn't know Sidious was summoning one in the first place.

Yoda probably would just stand around. I mean in ROTS he basically just let Sidious blast him with lightning.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
That is a fallacious statement, DE Luke > Yoda and/or Mace now? Quite understandable as i know your a huge fan of DE, however a ROTJ Luke with only 9 years of training is not going to surpass, a Vaapad Master and a 900 old Revered Grand Master of the Order.

He may not have, but he's still on par with them

Youre assuming Yoda and Mace are going to just stand around and watch the creation of the force storm, and then wait for it to hit them.. Use your head...

Luke did. He didn't know Sidious was summoning one in the first place.


This is irrelevant. This is a versus fight so nobody is going to be standing around and watching.

Originally posted by tdtd
This is irrelevant. This is a versus fight so nobody is going to be standing around and watching.

Arguments arent irrelevent because you dont want them to be.

Yoda and Mace have never seen Sidious' powers before(Ive already covered this) and wouldnt expect a force storm.

Even if you *assume* they did somehow know about it already, your dumbass argument that somehow Yoda and Mace break through Sidious' defense within the 5 seconds it takes to create a force storm is stupid.

Your argument doesnt, and never has, held any water.


And you still havent made your *address*(lol...) to what Mace and Yoda would do against Sidious' wormhole technique. This technique is an instapwn that Mace and Yoda would have no reasonable defense against.

You never had any hope in this debate, tdtd, and the only time you have ever pwned me is in your dreams.

I have to eat dinner, I'll be back on tonight.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Arguments arent irrelevent because you dont want them to be.

Yoda and Mace have never seen Sidious' powers before(Ive already covered this) and wouldnt expect a force storm.

Even if you *assume* they did somehow know about it already, your dumbass argument that somehow Yoda and Mace break through Sidious' defense within the 5 seconds it takes to create a force storm is stupid.

Your argument doesnt, and never has, held any water.


And you still havent made your *address*(lol...) to what Mace and Yoda would do against Sidious' wormhole technique. This technique is an instapwn that Mace and Yoda would have no reasonable defense against.

You never had any hope in this debate, tdtd, and the only time you have ever pwned me is in your dreams.

I have to eat dinner, I'll be back on tonight.

I've already proven your argument to be illogical.. Your argument only works if they were in an open field with a great distance between the two, anything else will involve Sidious being either hacked to pieces or the simple attempts to hack him will make it considerably difficult for Sidious to create a force storm.. Don't be angry because my argument is logical and yours isn't even an argument, it's a defense mechanism for being wrong, and being pwnd. How many other people would you like to ridicule you before you realize you are wrong.. Btw, I noticed you throw out personal attacks when you realize you're a lost cause, not to mention they are logical fallacies.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
That is a fallacious statement, DE Luke > Yoda and/or Mace now? Quite understandable as i know your a huge fan of DE, however a ROTJ Luke with only 9 years of training is not going to surpass, a Vaapad Master and a 900 old Revered Grand Master of the Order.

He may not have, but he's still on par with them

Youre assuming Yoda and Mace are going to just stand around and watch the creation of the force storm, and then wait for it to hit them.. Use your head...

Luke did. He didn't know Sidious was summoning one in the first place.

And where specifically does it show that DE Luke is on par or equal to Yoda. Yes Luke has a huge potential as it is evident when he surpasses all the PT Jedi and the majority of the SW Universe by DN, however by DE, 9 years worth of training, is not going to put him on par with Yoda, he'll give Yoda alot of trouble but he certainly wont win, you're seriously underestimating the PT Jedi.

Yes, but in a vs fight that is relevant, we assume that Yoda and Mace know whats coming to do them, if you say DE Sidious wins because they dont expect a certain power then i can easily say, the Ancient Sith pwn everyone with their unknown techniques and the only reason they have no chance of blocking it is because they don't know about it. I can just as easily say Kun smashes DN Luke because his blasts are unknown to Luke. Notice how illogical those comments are. In a VS fight whatever the combatants can utilise, the defenders will know what they are going to do, hence once Yoda and Mace engage in lightsaber combat DE Sidious is not going to be able to summon a force storm AND control it whilst trying to fend a Vaapad master and a Grand Master, last time i looked, DE Sidious wasn't that "Godlike" only Kun and above have that ability.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Arguments arent irrelevent because you dont want them to be.

Yoda and Mace have never seen Sidious' powers before(Ive already covered this) and wouldnt expect a force storm.

Even if you *assume* they did somehow know about it already, your dumbass argument that somehow Yoda and Mace break through Sidious' defense within the 5 seconds it takes to create a force storm is stupid.

Your argument doesnt, and never has, held any water.


And you still havent made your *address*(lol...) to what Mace and Yoda would do against Sidious' wormhole technique. This technique is an instapwn that Mace and Yoda would have no reasonable defense against.

You never had any hope in this debate, tdtd, and the only time you have ever pwned me is in your dreams.

I have to eat dinner, I'll be back on tonight.

Oh? So now the wormhole technique is ZOMG a INSTAKILL!!!! So your saying Sidious wins this fight by transporting Yoda and Mace to a different arena or place far away from him? No thats moreso "i've lost a fight therefore i must put them elsewhere to avoid death."

Also you fail to understand that just because he was able to transport a relatively weak Luke, you assume he can do it to everyone, your logic is as infallible as Numan's. Although its not shown to be able to be resisted, you haven't proven to us, how his going to use it an arena where its not open ground, and you haven't shown how that "wins" him the fight.

From here, your the only fanboy atm GV, so by all means continue arguing a lost case, DE Sidious is powerful but not Godlike as your wet dreams portray him as. Look at how the rankins stand:

1) Marka Ragnos
2) Lord Simus
3) Naga Sadow
4) Ludo Kressh
5) Freedon Nadd
6) DN Luke/Exar Kun
7) DN Luke/Exar Kun
8) DE SIDIOUS.

His ranked 8th, and by no means is he the "most powerful of the most powerful"

Well said Deception..Except I'm not sure about putting Nadd above DN Luke.. Or even Kun, but maybe.. But yea you proved your point without much difficulty.

No, Darth Nihilus goes on top. I don't know about Freedon Nadd over Luke or Kun, but then again I don't know alot about him. Darth Traya might be above Sidious, too. I'd probably put Sidious as #10. Oh, NJO Luke'd probably beat him, too, but you already got DN Luke on there, so.

Nihilus doesn't count bro, he's a wound in the force that was meant to be killed by the Exile..

Originally posted by tdtd
Nihilus doesn't count bro, he's a wound in the force that was meant to be killed by the Exile..
Nihilus does count, Di'kut, just cause he's a wound in the Force doesn't mean he isn't stronger than DE Sidious and Marka Ragnos or that he doesn't pwn all.

Except that without his force drain power (Which may or may not be blockable by someone like Ragnos who can absorb entire planets himself with his sceptre) we have no idea if he sucks in combat or not. Moot observation.

Originally posted by tdtd
I've already proven your argument to be illogical.. Your argument only works if they were in an open field with a great distance between the two, anything else will involve Sidious being either hacked to pieces or the simple attempts to hack him will make it considerably difficult for Sidious to create a force storm.. Don't be angry because my argument is logical and yours isn't even an argument, it's a defense mechanism for being wrong, and being pwnd. How many other people would you like to ridicule you before you realize you are wrong.. Btw, I noticed you throw out personal attacks when you realize you're a lost cause, not to mention they are logical fallacies.

*sigh again*

You havent proved anything, you continue to evade my points and pretend your good at debating.

Sidious can defend while he summons his storm, force pushes etc... your argument that a superior opponent can be defeated within the 5 seconds it takes to summon a force storm is unfounded.

Again, you evade addressing Sidious' wormhole technique.

Again, you evade addressing why Mace and Yoda should have a clue about what to expect from Sidious.


And my insults to you are in response to you insulting me, Im always respectful to those who are respectful in return.


@ Deception

I believe you said this:

"I don't see them making past DE Sidious though."

Ill get around to you after Im done with tdtd if you like, but in the meantime dont be a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Except that without his force drain power (Which may or may not be blockable by someone like Ragnos who can absorb entire planets himself with his sceptre) we have no idea if he sucks in combat or not. Moot observation.
Whatever, Nihilus still counts.

DarthSith, he doesn't count lol, and if he did you'd give a good argument for Janus instead of saying what you said. Your opinion isn't canon..

GV, lets try this again since I feel bad for you already..Sidious CANNOT defend AND create a force storm at the same time, saying otherwise is ludicrous fanboyism. Try again...Why don't you try reading Deception's post, since he clears up your questions. Your logic(If you can even call it that) works only if they were in an open fieldn and at a great distance, meaning Sidious has time to create a force storm AND control it.. Your insults are inaccurate, me telling you that I'm providing accurate and logical evidence AND an argument, is accurate.. Try again

Originally posted by tdtd
DarthSith, he doesn't count lol, and if he did you'd give a good argument for Janus instead of saying what you said. Your opinion isn't canon..

GV, lets try this again since I feel bad for you already..Sidious CANNOT defend AND create a force storm at the same time, saying otherwise is ludicrous fanboyism. Try again...Why don't you try reading Deception's post, since he clears up your questions. Your logic(If you can even call it that) works only if they were in an open fieldn and at a great distance, meaning Sidious has time to create a force storm AND control it.. Your insults are inaccurate, me telling you that I'm providing accurate and logical evidence AND an argument, is accurate.. Try again


Okay..

Does anyone here besides Deception think this guy is winning??

I find his arguments weak and unfounded, if anyone thinks otherwise then Ill just give up now because obviously I am oblivious to the true genious of his posts.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Okay..

Does anyone here besides Deception think this guy is winning??

I find his arguments weak and unfounded, if anyone thinks otherwise then Ill just give up now because obviously I am oblivious to the true genious of his posts.

Nope... its the general agreement of these forums that tdtd is a troll who amuses himself on these forums and... I couldn't give a damn.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Whatever, Nihilus still counts.

No, he doesn't.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Okay..

Does anyone here besides Deception think this guy is winning??

I find his arguments weak and unfounded, if anyone thinks otherwise then Ill just give up now because obviously I am oblivious to the true genious of his posts.


Appeal to the majority is a logical fallacy, even if the majority is against you. Rayvann just trolls around agreeing with everybody so his opinion is irrelevant..

And GV, i've provided evidence and a logical arguments for once, just because you don't want to hear it doesn't mean I haven't.

Omg, Nihilus doesn't count since he's a void in the Force! Neither does Anakin cause he's teh Chosen One or Mace cause he's a pimp! Bane doesn't count since he has Orbalisk armor and Revan doesn't count cause he's only in a video game!

Originally posted by darthsith19
Omg, Nihilus doesn't count since he's a void in the Force! Neither does Anakin cause he's teh Chosen One or Mace cause he's a pimp! Bane doesn't count since he has Orbalisk armor and Revan doesn't count cause he's only in a video game!

Uh no, he doesn't count because he was created by the Exile as a result of his severe clinical depresion, and can only be destroyed by the exile. I don't know what point you were trying to make by adding irrelevant examples but Nihilus isn't someone you can use in a star wars debate, because he just consumes everything.

Originally posted by tdtd
Appeal to the majority is a logical fallacy, even if the majority is against you. Rayvann just trolls around agreeing with everybody so his opinion is irrelevant

If he agrees with *everyone* then why doesnt he agree with you?


Appeal to the majority, a logical fallacy?...

Originally posted by darthsith19
Omg, Nihilus doesn't count since he's a void in the Force! Neither does Anakin cause he's teh Chosen One or Mace cause he's a pimp! Bane doesn't count since he has Orbalisk armor and Revan doesn't count cause he's only in a video game!

Apparently you're uh... what's the word I'm looking for?

Ah, obtuse.

Nihilus without his force drain is like trying to describe Yoda without him being a jedi- you can't do it. So how can you conclude that Nihilus outstrips everyone else?

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
If he agrees with *everyone* then why doesnt he agree with you?


Appeal to the majority, a logical fallacy?...


Yes, appeal to the majority is a logical fallacy. I don't care what an insignificant twit says about me, his first post in the thread is a personal attack and an appeal to the majority thereby making him a troll. You asking if anyone thinks I'm right is an appeal to the majority which is a logical fallacy, even if Deception agrees with me. We both have made valid points that you refuse to listen to, instead spewing out garbage that makes no sense.

Originally posted by tdtd
Yes, appeal to the majority is a logical fallacy. I don't care what an insignificant twit says about me, his first post in the thread is a personal attack and an appeal to the majority thereby making him a troll. You asking if anyone thinks I'm right is an appeal to the majority which is a logical fallacy, even if Deception agrees with me. We both have made valid points that you refuse to listen to, instead spewing out garbage that makes no sense.

Appealing to the majority generally reveals a more objective view on who is infact winning a debate.

Correction: *I* have made valid points...Im afraid you are the one that makes no sense here.

Go home, troll.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Appealing to the majority generally reveals a more objective view on who is infact winning a debate.

Correction: *I* have made valid points...Im afraid you are the one that makes no sense here.

Go home, troll.


I'm going to do something IKC does with me and point out your logical fallacies...

Argumentum ad hominem
Appeal to Ridicule
I'd say using denial is also a logical fallacy..

So in short, you have no argument, nobody has agreed with you, people have backed me up and added more to my argument, and you're just angry and in denial, and apparently have no concept of the term "troll". Come back when you're ready.

Originally posted by tdtd
Uh no, he doesn't count because he was created by the Exile as a result of his severe clinical depresion, and can only be destroyed by the exile. I don't know what point you were trying to make by adding irrelevant examples but Nihilus isn't someone you can use in a star wars debate, because he just consumes everything.
Exactly, he consumes everything. How he was created doesn't matter, how he dies doesn't matter. Fact is he is a Sith, he uses a lightsaber and the Force, he counts.

No, he doesn't lol..His soul existence is based on the Exile. If the exile doesn't exist, neither does Nihilus, so he's not someone who should be involved in debates, because there's nothing to debate with him, nothing is known about his saber abilities, he just "eats" things.

GV, i never said he wouldn't win, but im arguing his not going to use a force storm and wtfpwn them, it'll be hard and considering Yoda and Mace will be tired, i can see DE Sidious taking them down in this gauntlet.

Darthsith you are persisent in believing so, however to count someone like Nihilus is like to count the Planet Zekot, omg it uses the force, it counts!! No he doesn't, his a fluke in the force. Just as its not feasible to classify a planet as a force user, even though it uses the force.

Including Nihilus in a thread is pointless, the answer is there with no debate, unless we get new information that the Ancient Sith are immune to it, thus we do not include him for that very fact it's pointless.

He wasn't including him in a debate though. He was including him in his list of who is the most powerful.

Indeed, but in terms of raw power, Nihilus doesn't rank with even Revan.
He soley wins due to his ability which does not mean he is the most powerful. The Exile defeated him, but the Exile doesn't even rank within the top 10, thus its obvious Nihilus's force powers and lightsaber skills are not on par with the Most Powerful Jedi/Sith of all time.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Exactly, he consumes everything. How he was created doesn't matter, how he dies doesn't matter. Fact is he is a Sith, he uses a lightsaber and the Force, he counts.

Really, define "most powerful" for me.

Then quantify Nihilus' "power" with and without the force drain.

Show me definitively that the Ancients, since it was derived from them and we have a premise to assume otherwise, would also succumb to the attack.

Establish that Nihilus can exist without the Exile, as he was created from the wound in the force.

Substantiated that Nihilus was an effective force-user even without the force drain ability.

Wait... you can't. Ranking Nihilus is pointless, he can count, but only if you feel like trolling and screwing up rankings. Not only is his physical property undeclared, his entire nature is completely ambiguous, he's even less useable than Zonama Sekot. So stop with the bullshit and start using your head.

Obviously we can't quantify Nihilus' power without the drain. That's like asking to quantify Kun's power without the amulet.. The argument would go nowhere.. I've already mentioned that Nihilus only exists if the Exile exists, that and what Illustrious said puts him into the "I don't know" category.

Originally posted by hord06
He wasn't including him in a debate though. He was including him in his list of who is the most powerful.
Exactly. By "Nihilus is the most powerful" I mean he could beat any of the other guys. He does count, he is a character, after all. Even if he can't live without the Exile, he still counts as he's still powerful and could wtf pwn anybody, with the exception, perhaps, of Ragnos, if he knows how to block Force Drain.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Exactly. By "Nihilus is the most powerful" I mean he could beat any of the other guys. He does count, he is a character, after all. Even if he can't live without the Exile, he still counts as he's still powerful and could wtf pwn anybody, with the exception, perhaps, of Ragnos, if he knows how to block Force Drain.

Way to argue without knowledge, hm ?
That technique was put into a storehouse of ancient Sith knowledge means it came from the ancient Sith. Since they all don't ran arround to pwn eachother with it there must be a way to block it. A way that every ancient Sith new otherwise you won't see them using swords but instead go: *Move hand - zapp - "Oh my...was that you I just consumed with a handmovent ?"*

That means he most likely will get down against: Simus, Ragnos, Kressh, Sadow. Possibly Kun if the knowledge to block said technique was found in the sources Sadow left on Yavin 4. Hell...he might go down vs virtually anybody that ran across ancient Sith knowledge before if it was the needed ancient Sith knowledge...

That, or we don't include him in the rankings at all

Back on topic...
Yoda and Mace beat sidious. We see luke pwn sids in a saber battle. 2 of the most powerful jedi ever (of the ones we know) will WTFpwn sidious in a saber contest and since this is a fight to the death sidious will lose more than just his arm. No storm without a head you know.

also, i havent been here in a while so what is a "troll"?