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Anakin is pissed off and clear-minded. Ditto for Exile.

Who wins? I'm thinking Exile but I'm not sure.

You're taking a canon character in Anakin and an N-Canon character in the dark side Exile, since the light side ending is usually canon, and considering I've never taken the dark side path in KOTOR II, I have no idea of the Exile's powers except for the fact that it isn't canon

We don't know which side is canon ATM.

Other than his special ability to beat Nihilus and lead/influence people, wasn't the Exile described as merely an average Jedi?

I highly doubt that he was average. Who said that?

Average, but that was during his training. It's hard to determine how much he grew. Personally, I think he was probably pretty good, but in a saber fight Anakin would come out on top.

Average? Wasn't he supposedly superior to Revan?

Traya was getting all anxious over his ability, but she obviously held Revan in high regard.

Apparently at the height of his power, the Exile was stronger than Revan.

I don't really think that's what she implies. She says the Exile is the "best student she's ever taught". This isn't like Vodo saying "Kun is the most formidable student he's ever taught." I personally think she loves the Exile because he represents an end of the force, which she hates, and because she was better able to mold the Exile and heal his troubled ego than she was with Revan, who was far more independant.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
I don't really think that's what she implies. She says the Exile is the "best student she's ever taught". This isn't like Vodo saying "Kun is the most formidable student he's ever taught." I personally think she loves the Exile because he represents an end of the force, which she hates, and because she was better able to mold the Exile and heal his troubled ego than she was with Revan, who was far more independant.

The exact quote, I believe, is:

"You are the strongest I have ever trained."

I dont see how you can reach a different interpretation, Kreia was in awe...It seems clear she meant the Exile had indeed eclipsed Revan.

Adding to what Wesker brings up, technically Revan's power increased when Traya WASN'T training him. So Revan was never the strongest TRAINED by Traya, because he trained himself to become that strong.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
The exact quote, I believe, is:

"You are the strongest I have ever trained."

I dont see how you can reach a different interpretation, Kreia was in awe...It seems clear she meant the Exile had indeed eclipsed Revan.

Again, even that's problematic. Strongest in battle? Strongest emotionally for overcoming his past? Strongest for having will? Strongest in force bonds? Strongest smelling? That's not very definitive.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Again, even that's problematic. Strongest in battle? Strongest emotionally for overcoming his past? Strongest for having will? Strongest in force bonds? Strongest smelling? That's not very definitive.

Janus, I think your going overboard with the semantics...

Strongest in the SW universe, usually means having the most power. I see no good reason to interpret it any other way.

I think the Exile was more powerful than Revan at some point.


Revan was a genius tactician and a great duelist but I think as a character, the Exile had more power as a single entity.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Janus, I think your going overboard with the semantics...

Strongest in the SW universe, usually means having the most power. I see no good reason to interpret it any other way.

No, I think you're missing the point (Which I end up saying at least five times a day here at KMC... go figure)...

You are the strongest I have ever taught.

Examine this statement first...

How is she measuring his strength? Battle prowess? Force powers? Willpower? What?

Second, examine what she's contrasting it with...

Can Traya make an accurate judgment of Revan's abilities AFTER he left her tutorage?

Third, is Traya just sticking her tongue up his ass? It's possible that she's saying he's the strongest she's ever trained in order to give him courage and hope to face his trials and survive. In case you missed out, KotOR II is all about the Exile facing his past and conquering it and going on to become a better jedi (Or sith). Traya's not above embellishing her student's achievements to his face; if you think she is, you're claiming she's an infallible source on all things Exile.

And again, can you make the conclusion that Revan < Exile based on one comment from someone who likely hasn't seen Revan since he was a padawan or young jedi knight?

The proof of Exile > Revan or Revan > Exile is extremely scarce.


It's something that should be left out in the open until further notice.

I agree. That's why the claim that Exile is better than Revan because of one quote by Kreia is really jumping the gun.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
No, I think you're missing the point (Which I end up saying at least five times a day here at KMC... go figure)...

You are the strongest I have ever taught.

Examine this statement first...

How is she measuring his strength? Battle prowess? Force powers? Willpower? What?

Second, examine what she's contrasting it with...

Can Traya make an accurate judgment of Revan's abilities AFTER he left her tutorage?

Third, is Traya just sticking her tongue up his ass? It's possible that she's saying he's the strongest she's ever trained in order to give him courage and hope to face his trials and survive. In case you missed out, KotOR II is all about the Exile facing his past and conquering it and going on to become a better jedi (Or sith). Traya's not above embellishing her student's achievements to his face; if you think she is, you're claiming she's an infallible source on all things Exile.

And again, can you make the conclusion that Revan < Exile based on one comment from someone who likely hasn't seen Revan since he was a padawan or young jedi knight?


She is measuring general power, which would indicate who would win if there was a fight.


Yes she probably can.


If theres nothing concrete to suggest shes lieing, the default position is to assume shes telling the truth.


As opposed to nothing suggesting if Revan would win or not, the Exile has more backing him up solely because of that quote.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
She is measuring general power, which would indicate who would win if there was a fight.

O rly? Where did you divine this from? Prove it? Please do. I played the game ten times, GV. I'm not an ignoramus on the topic at hand.



No, she can't. She isn't in a position to compare Revan as a post-Sith Lord who is beyond touch of all others in the Outer Rim and beyond to the reformed jedi before her. Don't be daft.



WTF? The default position of any claim from a biased source is SKEPTICISM. Especially when you're guessing at her exact meanings of a word that can be construed to be eighty different things. Face it- you're assuming heavily that she meant fighting prowess without basis. It's not put into context. I mean, when Vodo claims that Exar Kun is the most formidable student he's ever had, it's after Exar Kun broke his staff and put up a damn good fight. That's pretty evident. This is not.



No, he doesn't. That quote isn't definitive and exact, and you can't even prove to me that she meant any of the eighty meanings I can get from that phrase, so stop being dense.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
O rly? Where did you divine this from? Prove it? Please do. I played the game ten times, GV. I'm not an ignoramus on the topic at hand.



No, she can't. She isn't in a position to compare Revan as a post-Sith Lord who is beyond touch of all others in the Outer Rim and beyond to the reformed jedi before her. Don't be daft.



WTF? The default position of any claim from a biased source is SKEPTICISM. Especially when you're guessing at her exact meanings of a word that can be construed to be eighty different things. Face it- you're assuming heavily that she meant fighting prowess without basis. It's not put into context. I mean, when Vodo claims that Exar Kun is the most formidable student he's ever had, it's after Exar Kun broke his staff and put up a damn good fight. That's pretty evident. This is not.



No, he doesn't. That quote isn't definitive and exact, and you can't even prove to me that she meant any of the eighty meanings I can get from that phrase, so stop being dense.



I got it from Kreias mouth. Being that we are talking about force-users in the SW universe, and she says 'strongest', the most likely interpretation is general power in the force..or atleast something that would indicate who would win in a fight between force-users.



How do you know what Kreia knows or doesnt know?



Kreia is the one who trained Revan, I dont see why she couldnt give an accurate opinion on who is more powerful.


Your right in that I dont have enough material to definately prove one way or the other. Im just saying that based on the quote the Exile has more going for him.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
I got it from Kreias mouth. Being that we are talking about force-users in the SW universe, and she says 'strongest', the most likely interpretation is general power in the force..or atleast something that would indicate who would win in a fight between force-users.

Again, you're missing the point- you can't substantiate that the quote WAS about fighting prowess AND that it was accurate and not hyperbole.



It's pretty evident when she admits she doesn't know anything about where Revan is or what exactly he's doing for the past five years. Indeed, she didn't know much about him during the Jedi Civil War either.



I do. Last time she recalls seeing Revan was before he left for the Mandalorian Wars. That's like nine years before the events of KotOR II.



And I'm saying you're wrong.

I don't know why people keep using that quote to judge the power of the Exile.

We don't even know if Kreia really trained Revan - we only know that she met him when he was a Padawan. And that's it. The only people we know being trained by Kreia are Nihilus and Sion and we know that the Exile is superior to both of them since he defeated them both.

In contrary we have Vrook descriping the Exile as "average Jedi" and Vandar just answers that he has the ability to lead people because he forms strong bonds to them - that's it. But suddenly he should be superior to Revan who is constantly descriped as prodigy ? I don't think so...

And I don't think that a "average Jedi" can take down Anakin in saber or force combat.

While I woudn't say the Exile is stronger than Revan, I definately not put him as an average Jedi. After all, since he is darksided, this average Jedi did whoop Kavar, Zez Kai, and Vrook.

This may be a stretch, but canonically, the dark side Exile has the power to lift an opponent in the air, and crush all their internal organs. How can Anakin contend with an opponent who can do that. That kind of feat matches what I have seen ROTS Sidious doing.

Originally posted by zephiel7
While I woudn't say the Exile is stronger than Revan, I definately not put him as an average Jedi.


Inside the game Jedi Masters words > your personal oppinion.



After all, since we have no idea if he's dark or light side he would have done exactly nothing like that - especially not since normally Lucasarts determines the light side ending to be the canon one.



Cononically a dark side Exile doesn't exist and even if he is dark side that power must be trained within the game and doesn't just exist because he's a dark sider. So this isn't a "stretch" - it's the freaking Grand Canyon.



Since that "feats" doesn't canonically exist it's Anakin vs "average Jedi". Period.

Well, the problem here lies in the fact that you did not properly read the title. The topic creator said "Dark Side Exile." Way to pay attention.

Janus is right. We don't know exactly how much more powerful he becamse after he left her tutelage. He was very young. He became much more powerful when he became DLOTS.

Do you think they would have put it in the game if they didn't mean it? The question is really that simple. While most people like Revan a lot more than the Exile, this is the one quote we have that compares their power, and it is made clear that the Exile is more powerful. While we don't know exactly what she meant by "most powerful" it would be logical to assume that the Exile is stronger until we learn more or are able to read deeper into the quote.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Well, the problem here lies in the fact that you did not properly read the title. The topic creator said "Dark Side Exile." Way to pay attention.

The problem here lies int he fact that you didn't get the idea behind my posting.

The Exile was an "average Jedi" according to the masters who trained him. Anakin's force potential trumbs everybody of his era and he's among the top 10 duellists of the PT. That's leagues above "average".

Now even if we take a "Dark Side Exile" we don't know jack shit about his force powers because they are based on game mechanics (Sith Lord character gets more force powers than his Sith marauder equivalent) / players choices (you don't have to train dark side powers only but can train abilities accessable to both sides).

So there is no way to suggest that an "average Jedi" using the Dark Side all over a sudden develops the ability to defeat Anakin in force or lightsaber combat - the same way Anakin couldn't do that to Obi-Wan just because using the Dark Side. At least the way they are rated by their masters leads to the suggestion that Anakin will come out on top.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Do you think they would have put it in the game if they didn't mean it? The question is really that simple. While most people like Revan a lot more than the Exile, this is the one quote we have that compares their power, and it is made clear that the Exile is more powerful. While we don't know exactly what she meant by "most powerful" it would be logical to assume that the Exile is stronger until we learn more or are able to read deeper into the quote.

Kreia is not the mouthpiece of the game creators, though, which is why we should take everything she says about the Exile with a grain of salt, especially when the statement is surprisingly vague. And then there's the element that Kreia hasn't even been able to judge Revan's personal ability for years. That'd be like me saying that my best friend now is stronger than my best friend from when I was 14, even though I have no idea how much that latter friend has grown. Ridiculous.

Originally posted by Borbarad
The problem here lies int he fact that you didn't get the idea behind my posting.

The Exile was an "average Jedi" according to the masters who trained him. Anakin's force potential trumbs everybody of his era and he's among the top 10 duellists of the PT. That's leagues above "average".

Now even if we take a "Dark Side Exile" we don't know jack shit about his force powers because they are based on game mechanics (Sith Lord character gets more force powers than his Sith marauder equivalent) / players choices (you don't have to train dark side powers only but can train abilities accessable to both sides).

So there is no way to suggest that an "average Jedi" using the Dark Side all over a sudden develops the ability to defeat Anakin in force or lightsaber combat - the same way Anakin couldn't do that to Obi-Wan just because using the Dark Side. At least the way they are rated by their masters leads to the suggestion that Anakin will come out on top. t

1)Anakins force potential means nothing. He has the potential, true, but has he ever reached it? The answer is no. About the Exile being just average. An ingame quote please?

2)Well it is canon that the Exile gets the force crush ability if he is dark side. No matter what class, what PRC or what gender you pick, the dark side Exile has the ability to lift an opponent from the air and crush them. Included in this, the dark side Exile also defeated three powerful Jedi masters. Just goes to show you how "wrong" those masters really were...

Originally posted by zephiel7
1)Anakins force potential means nothing. He has the potential, true, but has he ever reached it? The answer is no. About the Exile being just average. An ingame quote please?

Anakin's power was considerable, and this effected everything he did. He was able to put the pressure on Dooku, and on Obi-Wan, and would have been a threat to Yoda AND Sidious had he matured more in his powers.

The in-game quote on the Exile's mediocrity comes from Vrook and Vandar, via a transmission from the droid on Dantooine (Which you must have sufficient repair level to acitivate it).



No, none of that is CANON. Nowhere in the cutscenes does the Exile (Even as a dark sider) display or acknowledge his own use of Force crush, nor does anyone else. And Force crush itself is simply Force telekinesis applied to the entire body. Any prepared jedi can counter that, unless you think that the Exile has more force power than Anakin Skywalker.

Second, the dark sided Exile only beats the Jedi Masters by using his ability- draining them of the force. He doesn't kill them in combat.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Again, you're missing the point- you can't substantiate that the quote WAS about fighting prowess AND that it was accurate and not hyperbole.



It's pretty evident when she admits she doesn't know anything about where Revan is or what exactly he's doing for the past five years. Indeed, she didn't know much about him during the Jedi Civil War either.



I do. Last time she recalls seeing Revan was before he left for the Mandalorian Wars. That's like nine years before the events of KotOR II.



And I'm saying you're wrong.


Okay Janus, whatever...

I didnt enter this debate with a clear purpose, I was entertaining my idea of the Exile being stronger and I kind of got dragged into making a definate stance. I cant seem to defend my idea any longer, so I concede.

If you're clear on it being just an idea and not a stance, it'll spare us a lot of back and forth. I mean, I openly speculate and entertain thoughts all the time, but when I take a stance, that's another animal altogether.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Anakin's power was considerable, and this effected everything he did. He was able to put the pressure on Dooku, and on Obi-Wan, and would have been a threat to Yoda AND Sidious had he matured more in his powers.

The in-game quote on the Exile's mediocrity comes from Vrook and Vandar, via a transmission from the droid on Dantooine (Which you must have sufficient repair level to acitivate it).



No, none of that is CANON. Nowhere in the cutscenes does the Exile (Even as a dark sider) display or acknowledge his own use of Force crush, nor does anyone else. And Force crush itself is simply Force telekinesis applied to the entire body. Any prepared jedi can counter that, unless you think that the Exile has more force power than Anakin Skywalker.

Second, the dark sided Exile only beats the Jedi Masters by using his ability- draining them of the force. He doesn't kill them in combat.

1)Ok the transmission, from Vandaar to Vrook is new information. Thanks for the info.

2)Force crush is obtained by any dark side Exile, it is not something optional, its something that the game pushes into the dark side Exile. Telekinetic manipulation of that kind is still something that rivals if not exceeds much of what Anakin demonstrates in the movies.

3)Alright, the Exile drains the masters of the force. Agreed. Still that benefits him for intents of the versus fight. If he could do that to those Jedi masters, then he could probably pull the same stunt on Anakin, no? His nature benefits him in a versus fight.

If you people talk Kreia's word as an infallible source, then everyone here has contradicted themselves quite bit.

She also states that the Ancient Sith would make the Sith of Kotor/Kotor2 look like children with Toys, including the Exile himself, notice how you reply she finds you arrogrant if you believe (in the game) you can defeat them.

I love the inconsistency here, so now the Force Crush is a force TK? Oh i would agree it was a force TK towards non force endowed people, but considering there was close to no Jedi remaining within Kotor 2, adding onto the fact, you don't get the option to use it on the Jedi Masters, you obtain Force Crush after Kreia eliminates the 3 masters. So thus you still have to prove that the Exile can successfully perform on a Jedi with a huge amount of Force potential and power.