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Do people REALLY need faith and prayer and the belief that something's out there rewarding the good and torturing the evil? Do we really need to teach people these beliefs and tell them about things like god, karma and other things? Is it all necessary, or is it just in our heads?

I think religion would help us all but since theres people who have there own ways of not beliving in god....and some who bash the religions then its up to them

Consider the idea of the noble lie; not every person is naturally empathetic and morally correct (Or there would be no need for laws); therefore we must invent something to believe in for people to live up to those morals.

Well, I believe what I believe is true (dur), but one thing just in general about why faith is good is because it gives people a reason to keep going. Hope that there's something better, you know.

Originally posted by Captain Falcon
Do people REALLY need faith and prayer and the belief that something's out there rewarding the good and torturing the evil? Do we really need to teach people these beliefs and tell them about things like god, karma and other things? Is it all necessary, or is it just in our heads? I feel that there should be special centers for information on these topics. Then one could find out all they wanted. BUT, The rule should be let everybody decide for themselves, not convert others, and keep it apart from government. ...I see religion as a control mechanism. Spirituality differs IMO. It's just trying to connect.

Originally posted by PuffyCheese
Well, I believe what I believe is true (dur), but one thing just in general about why faith is good is because it gives people a reason to keep going. Hope that there's something better, you know.

Because being alive just isn't good enough. I'm sure God is pleased with that.

"I give these pitiful humans life, free will, and reign over the entire planet, and they still aren't pleased!? Greedy buggers. I should have made a sex slave."

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Because being alive just isn't good enough. I'm sure God is pleased with that.

Being alive sure doesn't seem to be enough for some people these days. Mostly because people get drunk with possessions and wants. That's why people are so unhappy in the U.S.

No. I don't think people today need religion. Or at least most people. I understand that in ancient times, medieval times etc that it could keep them going, and was a valuable tool. "My life is hell, I work from 5 till six, there is never enough food, 7 of my 12 kids have died and now I have the plague... but I've been good and when I die I'll go to heaven, so yeah, I'll obey the King because that's what a good person does."

Now, I, myself, would probably be agnostic (I don't think there is a God, but I can't say that certainly), though I do like Ganesh in concept and Buddhism as a philosophy. Now, I have never felt empty, sad, or lacked direction because I don't have "a god." I never needed an old book to tell me what's right. I never felt like setting old people on fire because I don't believe in a god or robbing a bank. I think that people can, and do, get on fine, better then fine, without religion. I listen to people say "but religion gives hope" - for some maybe, but once again I have seen no evidence you can't have hope or happiness without a god. Nor that a person can't live a 100% full, lawful, good, life without some guidance from a higher power.

the thing is, religius people are in a way, delusional. They don't understand how life works which scares me and isn't right. Not only that but they are wasting their lives. Religion can find happiness and peace and relaxation, but so can drugs.

In a way, religion is the most popular drug their is.

Actually there are quite a number of people who NEED religion in their lives. Around half of world's population in fact.

Some people need it, some don't. In the ancient times, religion and God's were used to explain the events people could not otherwise, today many organised religions are about political agenda NOT about religious - hence it is very needed to certain people.

Who was it that said that when it comes to people, some will respond to a deity or religion and the others will respond to a tyranny?

Anyways, just because half of the world believes in a religion doesn't mean they "need" it any more than a junkie "needs" his fix.

Originally posted by PuffyCheese
Well, I believe what I believe is true (dur), but one thing just in general about why faith is good is because it gives people a reason to keep going. Hope that there's something better, you know.

Hope is for the weak.

We are all weak, and all need Hope. It's choosing to admit it, to where our problems detail themselves.

I like my way of putting it; Religion is a drug.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Who was it that said that when it comes to people, some will respond to a deity or religion and the others will respond to a tyranny?

Anyways, just because half of the world believes in a religion doesn't mean they "need" it any more than a junkie "needs" his fix.

Religion is needed for a lot of people - just because you live in the West, where religion is not regarded as anything important or of value, does not mean that the whole world is like that.

West does not equal the whole world, and the values in the West do not equal the values in the rest of the world. While this may seem hard to comprehend, it is the reality.

If people did not need religion, or some kind of spiritual belief, they would have abandoned it for science.

For the big part, religious people need religion to control the masses -some ordnary people need it because they find sense and peace in it, others because it can justify their prejudices and fears.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I feel that there should be special centers for information on these topics. Then one could find out all they wanted. BUT, The rule should be let everybody decide for themselves, not convert others, and keep it apart from government. ...I see religion as a control mechanism. Spirituality differs IMO. It's just trying to connect. I like this.


Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Religion is needed for a lot of people - just because you live in the West, where religion is not regarded as anything important or of value, does not mean that the whole world is like that.

West does not equal the whole world, and the values in the West do not equal the values in the rest of the world. While this may seem hard to comprehend, it is the reality.

If people did not need religion, or some kind of spiritual belief, they would have abandoned it for science.

For the big part, religious people need religion to control the masses -some ordnary people need it because they find sense and peace in it, others because it can justify their prejudices and fears. religion is like a drug. It changes lives, it's addicting, it delutes peoples thought and that's why people have it. By using your logic you could say people need cocaine, and lies.

No.

Originally posted by MC Mike
No. yes,

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Religion is needed for a lot of people - just because you live in the West, where religion is not regarded as anything important or of value, does not mean that the whole world is like that.

West does not equal the whole world, and the values in the West do not equal the values in the rest of the world. While this may seem hard to comprehend, it is the reality.

Firstly, I appreciate the idea that I can't understand something because I "live in the West". With that kind of logic, I guess I can't judge the eastern samurai on morality when it comes to the ritualistic "cross-roads cut"; where the samurai tests his new katana blade on any wayfarer who happens to wander by. I guess I can't understand nor judge that act because my values aren't universal. Yeah, cultural relativity is a poor excuse for me being able to share my opinion based on what I know about the human psyche, morality, and religion.



Really? In one sense, they have. How many educated people do you know who prefer prayer and mysticism over tried and true medicine? However, when it comes to dealing with other truths, the human mind prefers to wander. Is that neccessarily right and healthy? Has religion solved the world's problems? Has it led to better understanding of human beings and the nature of the world? Or has it perpetuated a self-absorbed collective ignorance that goes on to further narrow-mindedness?

It's also human nature to want things we can't have, and to fall into bad habits from which we live in denial and refuse to escape. Drug addicts have this failing, as do alcoholics and gambling addicts.... I mean, there's millions of alcoholics in the world... Is alcoholism needed? No, it isn't. It's unhealthy.



Is that a need? A real need? I can "need" a razor with five blades instead of three, or "need" a computer with more expensive RAm instead of less. Are you sure it's a need and not an influenced want?

RELIGION IS A DRUG.

To some people it really is. Only because they're scared NOT to take it...

Originally posted by Captain Falcon
RELIGION IS A DRUG.

The opium of the masses? That's how some have described it. Marx could be poetic when he wanted to be.

Some people need religion, and some people don't. Some people need private spiritual beliefs and some people need fellowship and ritual, the latter being something I don't care for. I have found more meaning in psychology than religion, and it's a relatively new science. Music is my religion, and I NEED it.

^^ Well music can be very mesmerising..........I'm a follower too....lol

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Really? In one sense, they have. How many educated people do you know who prefer prayer and mysticism over tried and true medicine? However, when it comes to dealing with other truths, the human mind prefers to wander. Is that neccessarily right and healthy? Has religion solved the world's problems? Has it led to better understanding of human beings and the nature of the world? Or has it perpetuated a self-absorbed collective ignorance that goes on to further narrow-mindedness?

There are numerous well educated people who are religious. Einstain for exaple endorsed Buddhism greatly.
People around India, professors, doctors, lawyers, all Hindu. Well eduated and well presented.

You do appear to have a limited knowledge of religions around the world.

Buddhism requires knowledge and understanding not blind following. Buddhism also suggests that creation of the world does not necesseraly have anything to do with the devine.

Hinduism endorses every kind of knowledge seeking and science.


Originally posted by Janus Marius
It's also human nature to want things we can't have, and to fall into bad habits from which we live in denial and refuse to escape. Drug addicts have this failing, as do alcoholics and gambling addicts.... I mean, there's millions of alcoholics in the world... Is alcoholism needed? No, it isn't. It's unhealthy.

It is not human nature to want things we can't have, it is the ego. We are told, on the daily bases that we should have more, we should grab more and more. Greed makes us want what we can't have, not human nature.

Since you seem to keen on Japanese cultrue, you should know the social order in Japan. Everybody has their own place and their own rank - and everyone accepts that. Noone is chasing what they are told they cannot have.
A master is a master and a slave is a slave - that is just the way it is.

As far as alcoholism goes - depending on your social point of view, it is needed. For a functionalist, everything we experience is NEEDED, but thats a different arguemtn.

Alcoholism is a bad example of need, but a good example of the lack of control we all have. If we follow your logic, we shouldn't have food either - beause over take of food would lead to obeasity.
Not everyone who has ocasional glass of wine is an alcoholic - alcoholic is a by product of lack of bodily control.


Originally posted by Janus Marius
Is that a need? A real need? I can "need" a razor with five blades instead of three, or "need" a computer with more expensive RAm instead of less. Are you sure it's a need and not an influenced want?

All those are irrelevant. We are talking about religion, which for some people represent spiritual get away which they could not live without.

As I already mentioned, not all religious people resemble Alabama Bible Bashers, Arabian hand cutting and women opression, because there are far more religions in the world than 3 main ones.

Not all people are the same and some are in need of spiritual refuge, they need to believe in something bigger - you cannot speak for those people who claim religion is needed for them.

You are free to speak for yourself - YOU don;t need religion, but not everyone is like you.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There are numerous well educated people who are religious. Einstain for exaple endorsed Buddhism greatly.
People around India, professors, doctors, lawyers, all Hindu. Well eduated and well presented.

You do appear to have a limited knowledge of religions around the world.

Buddhism requires knowledge and understanding not blind following. Buddhism also suggests that creation of the world does not necesseraly have anything to do with the devine.

Hinduism endorses every kind of knowledge seeking and science.

I have some knowledge of most religions. I don't have complete knowledge because that would require a lot more time and studying, and to be quite honest- I don't feel the need to read every single text and study every single aspect of it to make a judgment. Religion basically gives you a mythos explanation for why things are and how things are. And that's anathema to anyone who advocates reason and logos. True, some religions are far more open minded than others, but this does not remove the aspect of the noble lie from the core of religion. Human beings are dependant on religion, but that dessn't mean they NEED it to survive and flourish. If anything, the idea of reaching self-actualization is better reached through realizing the truth of the world as it is and accepting it, as opposed to being blanketed in lies and half-truths.



Really? So "greed" is the shoe-in term for why infants desire what other infants have? Even a child is greedy because it wants the Tickle Me Elmo that it's mother can't provide? While I do uphold that modern day society reinforces this, it's also there from the beginning. It IS human nature to desire that which we don't have.



And again, you're advocating cultural relativism, which is ridiculous. If a samurai came to your country and bisected a random person to check their sword's worth, is it still justifiable in your opinion? Are morals and ethics truly relative to just... culture?



It's a ridiculous argument. Alcohol is not needed for human beings to survive naturally. If it was, we'd be offering beers instead of soft drinks at McDonald's.



I think you're totally missing the point- food is a natural need. We cannot survive without it. There's no choice behind the matter, nor is there any instance where food is NOT a natural need and we suddenly become dependant on it. That is not the case with alcohol. Alcohol is something we don't biologically need and some of us become falsely dependant on it, or overly needy. Same with religion. You don't pop out of the womb and start praying.



They can't? Or have they been conditioned to think that they can't? Is escapism truly healthy? I disagree.



I'm questioning the nature of that "need". And you've failed to address it.

I don't know about faith in a God, but certainly people need faith in the mundane. People need to believe that they can, for example, get up, get dressed, drive to work, work, drive back, eat dinner, go to bed, and do this day after day after day.

People need this to function, because the truth is, anything can happen to anyone at anytime. If we could/did not have that (preconscious?) faith in the mundane ("Today will be okay", then we'd all be too paralyzed with anxiety / fear / terror to think.

Originally posted by debbiejo
To some people it really is. Only because they're scared NOT to take it... it ****s you up. It's mental masturbation aswell.

Originally posted by Spazoid
Some people need religion, and some people don't. Some people need private spiritual beliefs and some people need fellowship and ritual, the latter being something I don't care for. I have found more meaning in psychology than religion, and it's a relatively new science. Music is my religion, and I NEED it. people were better off without it. Take a look at the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Native Americans, Native Australiansand NewZealand. They didn't have religion, or base life and society on religion. and look how they turned out.

Originally posted by Captain Falcon
people were better off without it. Take a look at the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Native Americans, Native Australiansand NewZealand. They didn't have religion, or base life and society on religion. and look how they turned out.

...

Dude, do you even know what you're talking about? ALL of those groups had society structures centered around religion.

I don't think he does......I'm not wasting anymore time on him.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
The opium of the masses? That's how some have described it. Marx could be poetic when he wanted to be.

As a Poet yes. As a Prophet....No.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
...

Dude, do you even know what you're talking about? ALL of those groups had society structures centered around religion. Maybe he temporarily forgot, cause god we all know, ok some of us know Greek, Roman, Native American...etc....mythologies..........

You bring up myth and the Romans and Greeks come to mind. Egyptians thought Pharoah was a living God. Native Americans had all sorts of beliefs. It's all common knowledge.

Romans and Greeks also thought their gods were real, we just call them myths today...

Yeah, but the Greeks especially only paid lip service to the Gods. They were hardly devout.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yeah, but the Greeks especially only paid lip service to the Gods. They were hardly devout. But you don't know that for a fact. Just as there are Christians that pay lip service also.

Read some Greek works. Their attitude towards their gods was pretty casual compared to most. True, there were SOME devout believers, but it wasn't mainstream.

Like religions today........God, they had temples everywhere...They gave sacrifices and offerings....they had icons...etc...