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Who wins?
No prep
In New York City

Errrr....anyone able to direct me to a place hwere I can view the "strength classes"?

Also, who is the STRONGEST character (physical) in the Marvel universe?

my links arent working i cant get them up soz
but theyre both class 100

I'd say Hercules after a long battle.
After-all, he IS a god, right?

Who cares? He can't hurt Juggernaut, he can't wear Juggy down... Herc might be stronger, but he still can't do anything to hurt him.

Juggernaut (Prime) ???

Originally posted by Tshern
Who cares? He can't hurt Juggernaut, he can't wear Juggy down... Herc might be stronger, but he still can't do anything to hurt him. toss his ass into orbit

While Juggs uses his forcefield? He could give it a try and then see that he can't do it.

Originally posted by Tshern
While Juggs uses his forcefield? He could give it a try and then see that he can't do it. then he will lift the ground under him and toss that into orbit.

Originally posted by King KAM
then he will lift the ground under him and toss that into orbit.

Thanks you! Lol why is it ppl hear Juggs shield and its over? haha

Originally posted by Soleran
Thanks you! Lol why is it ppl hear Juggs shield and its over? haha because alot of people are idiots.

Because it sucks away the momentum? So it doesn't mean an automatic victory, but it makes it impossible to hit or throw him... But yeah, there are other options. Not many that Juggs couldn't counter, though.


And Juggy jumps off the piece of ground when it is on air, smashes it to pieces or simply beats Herc down before he lifts the damn thing. Try to get serious here, even if he had his forcefield on, he wouldn't just stand there watching. Remember, bloodlust is on and so forth.

And most of all, we're talking about the toughest version of the Juggernaut since it is 'prime'. Thus, the one we have in consideration is Trion Juggernaut...

You wanna pit Trion Juggernaut Against Hercules?

Not really, put it says on the title that it is Juggernaut (Prime) and his prime version is Trion. It wouldn't even be a fight...

Classic Juggernaut would have an easier time with Hercules then he did with Thor because Hercules can't fly and he doesn't have a mystical hammer

Hercules loses for 3 reasons

1. He cant increase his strength like Juggernaut can

2. He isn't durable enough

3. Juggernaut cant be hurt

Soujaboy09: You mentioned three reasons, but there are more... For example the forcefield.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
Hercules loses for 3 reasons

1. He cant increase his strength like Juggernaut can

2. He isn't durable enough

3. Juggernaut cant be hurt

Co-signed. Juggernaut wins this pretty easily.

Originally posted by Tshern
Soujaboy09: You mentioned three reasons, but there are more... For example the forcefield.

Yea, and that to

Originally posted by soujaboy09
Hercules loses for 3 reasons

1. He cant increase his strength like Juggernaut can

2. He isn't durable enough

3. Juggernaut cant be hurt hercules has never been shown to max out in strength, and has far more stength feats than the juggs, so lets not go there.

He stalemated Thor in an armwrestling match.

Juggernaut can and has beat the Hulk all by himself. Everytime Herc. goes one on one with the Hulk he gets owned. The only time Herc. does good against the Hulk is when he has help from the Avengers.

Juggernaut wins this fight after a long battle. Juggs can go all night long and then a little longer.

What's Juggernaut Prime?

Originally posted by Tshern
He stalemated Thor in an armwrestling match.

Juggernaut overpowered Thor, and Nearly killed him with a hug so if Juggernauts stronger than Thor he's stronger than Hercules.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
What's Juggernaut Prime?

he doesn't have one, his power varies with his focus

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Juggernaut can and has beat the Hulk all by himself. Everytime Herc. goes one on one with the Hulk he gets owned. The only time Herc. does good against the Hulk is when he has help from the Avengers.

Juggernaut wins this fight after a long battle. Juggs can go all night long and then a little longer. thats because he is mortal hulk, and beofre mortal hulk has choked out the hulk and beat him on 2 occasions with his grappling skills,

immortal hulk is the strongest god there is, and can outlift the hulk with ease.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
Juggernaut overpowered Thor, and Nearly killed him with a hug so if Juggernauts stronger than Thor he's stronger than Hercules. thats actually not true, immortal hercules defeated thor with mjlonir.

Originally posted by King KAM
thats because he is mortal hulk, and beofre mortal hulk has choked out the hulk and beat him on 2 occasions with his grappling skills,

immortal hulk is the strongest god there is, and can outlift the hulk with ease.

Hercules is the strongest Olympian god, but not the strongest god. This is why he stalemated Thor in arm wrestling, and don't forget about the elder gods.

Originally posted by King KAM
thats because he is mortal hulk, and beofre mortal hulk has choked out the hulk and beat him on 2 occasions with his grappling skills,

immortal hulk is the strongest god there is, and can outlift the hulk with ease. When has Herc. ever beat Hulk?

Originally posted by Tshern
Because it sucks away the momentum? So it doesn't mean an automatic victory, but it makes it impossible to hit or throw him... But yeah, there are other options. Not many that Juggs couldn't counter, though.


And Juggy jumps off the piece of ground when it is on air, smashes it to pieces or simply beats Herc down before he lifts the damn thing. Try to get serious here, even if he had his forcefield on, he wouldn't just stand there watching. Remember, bloodlust is on and so forth.

His momentum would still be carrying up.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
When has Herc. ever beat Hulk?

Never, every time I see him fight Hulk he gets tossed

Originally posted by badabing
Originally posted by Tshern
Because it sucks away the momentum? So it doesn't mean an automatic victory, but it makes it impossible to hit or throw him... But yeah, there are other options. Not many that Juggs couldn't counter, though.


And Juggy jumps off the piece of ground when it is on air, smashes it to pieces or simply beats Herc down before he lifts the damn thing. Try to get serious here, even if he had his forcefield on, he wouldn't just stand there watching. Remember, bloodlust is on and so forth.

His momentum would still be carrying up. exactly

Originally posted by soujaboy09
Never, every time I see him fight Hulk he gets tossed check his respect threads

He's had some good battles with Hulk, but never has he defeated Hulk.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
He's had some good battles with Hulk, but never has he defeated Hulk. he defeated him in his one-shot.and that was an extremely pissed savage hulk, and for the record, hercules has pulled manahattan, when juggs has a strength feat to match that, come holla at ya boy

" Everytime Herc. goes one on one with the Hulk he gets owned. The only time Herc. does good against the Hulk is when he has help from the Avengers"


Heres a little reading for you Snoops: Count the times he was owned.

http://superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107090


Fun fact: Herc has done quite better one on one.


- - -


"Juggernaut can and has beat the Hulk all by himself."


You mean the only -one- time when Hulk -also- knocked him out?

They came out as even.


- - -


"When has Herc. ever beat Hulk?"


The same amount of times Hulk has beaten immortal Herc. None.

The win Hulk has its against the weakest Herc ever. Thats it.


- - -


"he defeated him in his one-shot"


Mortal Hercules, lost. No way he could win. The feat he had there wasent that one. It was taken punches by a much stronger opponent than him at the time and still last the whole fight.

And make him kiss the floor twice with skills only.

Originally posted by King KAM
he defeated him in his one-shot.and that was an extremely pissed savage hulk, and for the record, hercules has pulled manahattan, when juggs has a strength feat to match that, come holla at ya boy

Here's two

Overpowers Thor with ease, this is something that Hercules has not been able to accomplish.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Juggs20vs20Thor5.jpg

Excerts so much physical force that the earth nearly crumbles Under his feet. This scan even states that never has such strength been displayed in the Natrual world. Besides that Juggernaut was excerting so much physical strength that he became immune to telepathic attack.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/jug8thdayp332kl.jpg

So there you go

Originally posted by olympian
" Everytime Herc. goes one on one with the Hulk he gets owned. The only time Herc. does good against the Hulk is when he has help from the Avengers"


Heres a little reading for you Snoops: Count the times he was owned.

http://superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107090


- - -


"Juggernaut can and has beat the Hulk all by himself."


You mean the only -one- time when Hulk -also- knocked him out?

They came out as even.


- - -


"When has Herc. ever beat Hulk?"


The same amount of times Hulk has beaten immortal Herc. None.

The win Hulk has its against the weakest Herc ever. Thats it.


- - -


"he defeated him in his one-shot"


Mortal Hercules, lost. No way he could win. The feat he had there wasent that one. It was taken punches by a much stronger opponent than him at the time and still last the whole fight.

And make him kiss the floor twice with skills only. but if we are using herc and juggs at their prime then this means we get to use Beyond Godhood herc from The Evolutionary Wars right?

"Overpowers Thor with ease, this is something that Hercules has not been able to accomplish."


Thats 8th day Juggernaut. The one that was stated to be more powerful. More than once in that very same story.

Are we using the most higher showings for both, then? In that case how about Herc when he was evolved -beyond- godhood?


- - -


"Excerts so much physical force that the earth nearly crumbles Under his feet. This scan even states that never has such strength been displayed in the Natrual world. Besides that Juggernaut was excerting so much physical strength that he became immune to telepathic attack."


Check the link i provided. Newsflash. Herc and Thor have also earth shaking feats.

In fact even other top tiers do. Hello Hulk?

Originally posted by olympian
"Overpowers Thor with ease, this is something that Hercules has not been able to accomplish."


Thats 8th day Juggernaut. The one that was stated to be more powerful?

Are we using the most higher showings for both? In that case how about Herc when he was evolved -beyond- godhood? thats what i said

Originally posted by olympian
"


Heres a little reading for you Snoops: Count the times he was owned.

http://superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107090

I knew you would take the bate. Hulk has crushed mortal Herc. twice. The first time it was professor Hulk which is a weaker version of Hulk. So that's all good. The second time Herc. got his @ss whooped so bad his dad had to save him.
Originally posted by olympian
"





You mean the only -one- time when Hulk -also- knocked him out?

They came out as even.

When Hulk hit Juggernaut in that match Juggy still thought Hulk was on his side. So chalk that one up as a cheap shot for your boy Hulk.


Originally posted by olympian
"



The same amount of times Hulk has beaten immortal Herc. None.

The win Hulk has its against the weakest Herc ever. Thats it.





Immortal Herc. had to have help fight Hulk in Hulk #322. Hulk was fighting the entire Avengers squad. Mindless Hulk or not Herc. didn't do very good even with help.

Originally posted by olympian
"Overpowers Thor with ease, this is something that Hercules has not been able to accomplish."


Thats 8th day Juggernaut. The one that was stated to be more powerful. More than once in that very same story.

Are we using the most higher showings for both, then? In that case how about Herc when he was evolved -beyond- godhood?


- - -


"Excerts so much physical force that the earth nearly crumbles Under his feet. This scan even states that never has such strength been displayed in the Natrual world. Besides that Juggernaut was excerting so much physical strength that he became immune to telepathic attack."


Check the link i provided. Newsflash. Herc and Thor have also earth shaking feats.

In fact even other top tiers do. Hello Hulk?

Juggernaut never got a power increase, he just wasn't jobbing, and he wasn't playing. He had somewhere he had to be, and like he said he wasn't about to let anybody stop him.

Now your going to say that Cyttorak was controlling him. Thats false for if he was how could he betray him? the whole reason why he fought the Exemplars is because he stated that none controls him, but him. Thus he wasn't under the control of Cyttorak.

besides that the writer stated his power is limitless

oh god 8th day was for like 2 avengers its not his norm!

"Hulk has crushed immortal Herc. twice. The first time it was professor Hulk which is a weaker version of Hulk. So that's all good. The second time Herc. got his @ss whooped so bad his dad had to save him."


They both knock each other down, none is ko. Both ended getting up unharmed.

Thats the defination of even.

Professor Hulk in case you didnt knew, wich doesnt surprise me, had the highest strenght level of a Hulk, from the -get go-. The only setback was NOT getting stronger than that. Savage starts lower.

Hulk won one time, when Herc was mortal. That only confirms what we all know. Hulk never won against a full powered Herc and only wins when the other is weaker. Works for me.


- - -


"When Hulk hit Juggernaut in that match Juggy still thought Hulk was on his side. So chalk that one up as a cheap shot for your boy Hulk"


The same Juggernaut that ko him the first time starting with a -cheap shot-?

Snoops. I though you had learned the lesson in the WW debate. You lost that one remember? Heres the reason why you already lost this one too.

You whine about a character doing something, while forgetting the other did the very same.


- - -


"Immortal Herc. had to have help fight Hulk in Hulk #322. Hulk was fighting the entire Avengers squad. Mindless Hulk or not Herc. didn't do very good even with help."


The same story where Hulk in one of his strongest versions ever, this side of War Hulk, failed to knock out a single person, including 90% of -both- Avengers team, who wer streeth level?

Low showings cut both ways.

The same story Hulk never came close to beat Herc and where the Olympian punched him back and forth until the beast went down?

But hey, dont take it from me. Post that whole fight for everyone to see.


- - -


"Juggernaut never got a power increase, he just wasn't jobbing, and he wasn't playing. He had somewhere he had to be, and like he said he wasn't about to let anybody stop him"


Your not getting much from that story when it ws point blank -stated- he was more powerful than before. By dialogue and narration. I recall posting the whole fight before. Do it again.

How many times does Juggernaut not job in a fight? Even when he wins a fight he jobs, and isn't written correctly.

Anyways I gave proof of what I stated so I'm not going to fret of your statement.

Even if I did agree with you the title says "Prime"

lol written correctly, you mean written the way you want him to be written

8th day isn't the normal Juggs

Originally posted by soujaboy09
How many times does Juggernaut not job in a fight? Even when he wins a fight he jobs, and isn't written correctly.

Anyways I gave proof of what I stated so I'm not going to fret of your statement.

Even if I did agree with you the title says "Prime" even when he wins, he jobs.....youre an effin genius....

Originally posted by olympian
"Hulk has crushed immortal Herc. twice. The first time it was professor Hulk which is a weaker version of Hulk. So that's all good. The second time Herc. got his @ss whooped so bad his dad had to save him."


They both knock each other down, none is ko. Both ended getting up unharmed.

Thats the defination of even.

Profesor Hulk in case you didnt knew, wich doesnt surprise me, had the highest strenght level of a Hulk, from the -get go-. The only setback was NOT getting stronger than that. Savage starts lower.

Hulk won one time, when Herc was mortal. That only confirms what we all know. Hulk never won against a full powered Herc and only wins when the other is weaker. Works for me.


- - -


"When Hulk hit Juggernaut in that match Juggy still thought Hulk was on his side. So chalk that one up as a cheap shot for your boy Hulk"


The same Juggernaut that ko him the first time starting with a -cheap shot-?

Snoops. I though you had learned the lesson in the WW debate. You lost that one remember? Heres the reason why you already lost this one too.

You whine about a character doing something, while forgetting the other did the very same.


- - -


"Immortal Herc. had to have help fight Hulk in Hulk #322. Hulk was fighting the entire Avengers squad. Mindless Hulk or not Herc. didn't do very good even with help."


The same story where Hulk in his strongest version ever, this side of War Hulk, failed to knock out a single person, including 90% of -both- Avengers team, who wer streeth level.

Low showings cut both ways.

The same story Hulk never came close to beat Herc and where the Olympian punched him back and forth until the beast went down.

But hey, dont take it from me. Post that whole fight for everyone to see.


- - -


"Juggernaut never got a power increase, he just wasn't jobbing, and he wasn't playing. He had somewhere he had to be, and like he said he wasn't about to let anybody stop him"


Your not getting much from that story when it ws point blank -stated- he was more powerful than before. By dialogue and narration. I recall posting the whole fight before. Do it again.

Look at this scan, and tell me what Juggernaut says

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/jug8thdayp328ck.jpg

So why would Cyttorak be increasing his power if he betrayed him?

What fight? the Juggernaut vs Thor or the Juggernaut vs Exemplars fight?

"How many times does Juggernaut not job in a fight? Even when he wins a fight he jobs, and isn't written correctly."


The same can be said for every character. How does that add to the debate? You think Herc never had low showings?


- - -


"Look at this scan, and tell me what Juggernaut says"


The Thor-Juggernaut fight where it was stated. It was the example you used in the first place.

Originally posted by Soleran
lol written correctly, you mean written the way you want him to be written

8th day isn't the normal Juggs

No, I mean written to the Full extent to his power

Most of the time when he loses it's in some stupid manner. If written correctly he would use his magic force field more, use the magic energies he can produce with his hands like he once did with the X-men ext.

Originally posted by olympian



Let me get this straight. They both knock each other down, none is ko. Both ended getting up unharmed.

Thats the defination of even.

Profesor Hulk in case you ddint knew, wich doesnt surprise me, had the highest strenght level of a Hulk, from the get go. The only setback was NOT getting stronger than that. Savage starts lower.

Hulk won one time, when Herc was mortal. That only confirms what we all know. Hulk never won against a full powered Herc and only wins when the other is weaker. Works for me.
Hulk #404 Hulk sent Herc. flying with a drop kick or something. Herc. was out of the fight.

Originally posted by olympian




The same Juggernaut that ko him the first time starting with a cheap shot?

Snoops. I though you had learned the lesson in the WW debate. You lost that one remember. heres the reason why you already lost this one too.

You argue about acharacter doing something, while forgetting the other did the very same.
In the first fight Hulk had plenty of time to get his senses back. Keep tryin homie. You crack me up. The second fight was a clear sheap chot from Hulk. He knocked Juggies helmet off and the backlash knocked Juggy out not Hulk. You are infatuated with this Hercules charater to the point I'm kinda worried about ya.

The only lesson your proved to me is that you don't like the fact that DC says Wonderwoman is stronger than Herc. as I have proven. Your a sore looser is all.



Originally posted by olympian




The same story where Hulk in his strongest version ever, this side of War Hulk, failed to knock out a single person, including 90% of -both- Avengers team, who wer streeth level.

The same story Hulk never came close tobeat Herc and where the Olympian punched him back and forth until the beast went down.

But hey, dont take it from me. Post that whole fight for everyone to see.

Where does it say that mindless Hulk was the strongest? He just didn't have banner in his body Herc. had the help of Wonderman, Ironman, Namor, She-Hulk etc. and still got b!th slapped like a sally. This was the almighty Immortal Herc. too!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by olympian
"How many times does Juggernaut not job in a fight? Even when he wins a fight he jobs, and isn't written correctly."


The same can be said for every character. How does that add to the debate? You think Herc never had low showings?

I agree with you a lot of characters do job

Juggernaut just doesn't use all of his powers most of the time, but he's not the only one. Thor is another character that is written poorly most of the time.

What scans did you want?

Actually, Herc could beat Juggernaut. He'd just BFR him.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Actually, Herc could beat Juggernaut. He'd just BFR him.

He'd BFr him like he did Hulk

If he did get close enough to bfr Juggernaut he would be dead

Uh, Herc nearly killed Mindless Hulk with little help. Though Juggernaut is unstoppable while moving forward, he is by no means stronger than Hercules.

I think he is stronger than Hercules, Mindlees Hulk is just as his name states "Mindless". This means that he's weaker than Savage Hulk because Mindless cant get any stronger because he has no emotions.

Ya, but I think that the Juggernaut is stronger than Herc

Uh, what has Juggernaut done that can prove that? This is "I picked up an island with my bare hands" Hercules.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
I think he is stronger than Hercules, Mindlees Hulk is just as his name states "Mindless". This means that he's weaker than Savage Hulk because Mindless cant get any stronger because he has no emotions.

Ya, but I think that the Juggernaut is stronger than Herc thats not true at all and you kno it,

and show us feats which proves this......

"Hulk #404 Hulk sent Herc. flying with a drop kick or something. Herc. was out of the fight."


Really? Explain me then why was he up when Hulk trew Juggernaut to the Avengers.

Remember. He was -out of the fight- after Hulk tossed him away like you stated. Right?



- - -



"In the first fight Hulk had plenty of time to get his senses back. Keep tryin homie. You crack me up. The second fight was a clear sheap chot from Hulk. He knocked Juggies helmet off and the backlash knocked "


In the first fight he went down. In the second fight Jugs was down. They both kissed the floor. They both started with a cheap shot.

Thats again, even if you dont grasp the defination: even.

And Hulk put Jugs down before the backlash. A backlash everyone else got up instead of jugs. Post the whole fight if you want. We`ll wait.



- - -



"The only lesson your proved to me is that you don't like the fact that DC says Wonderwoman is stronger than Herc. as I have proven. Your a sore looser is all"


No need to try save some face off it. You got served and even admited it.

Heres for everyone to see:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=360625&pagenumber=9#post6332361

Like everyone can see that you cant prove what you *claim*.



- - -



"Where does it say that mindless Hulk was the strongest? He just didn't have banner in his body"


Here. See? Can you?


http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/1007/avengersih316g5ee0dm.jpg

He was stronger exactly because he didnt had Banner as a setback influence.

Savage in most incarnations, does. But you knew that, id wager.



- - -



"Herc. had the help of Wonderman, Ironman, Namor, She-Hulk etc. and still got b!th slapped like a sally. This was the almighty Immortal Herc. too!!!!!!!!! "


First round he fought one on one and stalemated. Second round had more problems and still fought him all the way.

Oh wait. But who won again? I seem to recall Betty begging for Herc not to kill him. Must had been a mirage. But heck if it was a good one.



- - -



"What scans did you want?"


Thor/Juggernaut fight under Jurgens, where 8th day Juggernaut was never stated as "boosted" according to some.

I guees I was wrong about the Hulk thing, thats my bad. I thought Savage Hulk was the strongest Hulk, I thought mindless Hulk kept a base strength because he couldn't get any angrier. I was wrong though so im sorry.

I do however stand on my statement that 8th day Juggernaut is the same as classic Juggernaut.

Who wanted scans again?

Actually, soujaboy, you're correct. Savage Hulk has the highest potential because he can think, and can have an actual temper. Mindless has the lowest base. The highest base strength is between Professor and Savage.

Ok dude said I was wrong, and I wasn't sure so I took hiw word for it. Thanks for pointing that out.

Originally posted by olympian






- - -




No need to try save some face off it. You got served and even admited it.

Heres for everyone to see:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=360625&pagenumber=9#post6332361

Like everyone can see you cant prove what you *claim*.






Dude I was being sarcastic Hahah I thought you knew I was joking. I even sent leo a pm after I posted that saying That. Ask him.

You have a different opinion of a fair fight than I do is all.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Actually, soujaboy, you're correct. Savage Hulk has the highest potential because he can think, and can have an actual temper. Mindless has the lowest base. The highest base strength is between Professor and Savage. That's what I thought too.

That scan says mindless has has limitless strength. So does savage Hulk.

Hulk has too many different forms

This is for you Olympian. That is what I call "proof" Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
This is for you Olympian. That is what I call "proof" Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules. thats what i call DCU proof.....

Originally posted by King KAM
thats what i call DCU proof..... Actually DCU Herc. is suppose to be stronger than Marvel Herc................

Supposed to be though.

"I even sent leo a pm after I posted that saying That. Ask him."

Nah. Ill take your word on it, Snoop


- - -


"You have a different opinion of a fair fight than I do is all"


Might be but i dont see how you can get another. Both put the other down, none was ko or even injured with the hits and that was the fight between the two. Who overpowered who?


- - -


"Actually, soujaboy, you're correct. Savage Hulk has the highest potential because he can think, and can have an actual temper. Mindless has the lowest base. The highest base strength is between Professor and Savage. "


Savage with banner in him will never reach (supossely) the unlimited state. Bannerless Hulk (wich mindless is a version of ) doesnt have Banner to even remotly moderate/control his actions.

He was sold in that story as more powerful than the average showings of savage Hulk. Savage looks indeed more powerful if you take in consideration the higher showings only.

Professor Hulk does have the highest base of all. He just couldnt get past of it. That was always clear.



- - -



"This is for you Olympian. That is what I call "proof" Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules."


Wich i already told you if wer using handbook "mantra" type as proof, then "Hulk is the strongest there is" (no limitations in his name pun) makes every single debate with Hulk useless, because by his name pun he would win against everyone. And i mean everyoneee.

We know by the -comics- that its not the case. He has been beaten. There are beings stronger than him. He has been owned. He has admited he couldnt get stronger than some, namely Satanish.

In the comics, WW never outraced or showed to be cleary faster than Mercury and never proven to be cleary stronger than Herc.

Are we going to debate with name puns only now? They always show in the opening and yet the comic itself shows otherwise. See the Hulk case.

Originally posted by olympian


By comics, WW never outraced Mercury and bever proven to be cleary stronger than Herc. For the record I got this out of a comic book!

It's in the narration and that's good enough for me.

Who cares if Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules? not many people can claim it.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
Who cares if Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules? not many people can claim it. Olympian cares. Big time. He takes this very seriously, that's why I push his bottons.

It's too easy.

"For the record I got this out of a comic book!

It's in the narration and that's good enough for me."


The opening, not a story narration. Thats why it doesnt help in anything.


- - -


"Olympian cares. Big time. He takes this very seriously, that's why I push his bottons."


Why you rasssputin lova

The one thing that remotly bores me its when people use "evidence" that doesnt work. She already proven that her name pun isent accurate. None is.

Originally posted by olympian



The opening, not a story narration. Thats why it doesnt help in anything.


I think your the only person who sees it that way. But hey if it works for ya keep it rollin.

It was describing the characters involved in the story. And it clearly says WonderWoman is stronger than Hercules.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Actually DCU Herc. is suppose to be stronger than Marvel Herc................ supposed....

"It was describing the characters involved in the story. And it clearly says WonderWoman is stronger than Hercules."


We all know it wasent a narration of the story. It was name puns in the opening credit.

Is Hulk name pun accurate too?

Either you apply the same logic for all or you dont. Nothing more to it than just that.

Here, take an actual story claim saying shes wrong:

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=herculescallingwwout9no.jpg

What do you make of it?

Originally posted by olympian
"It was describing the characters involved in the story. And it clearly says WonderWoman is stronger than Hercules."


We all know it wasent a narration of the story. It was name puns in the opening credit.

Is Hulk name pun accurate too?

Either you apply the same logic for all or you dont. Nothing more to it than just that.

Here, take an actual story claim saying shes wrong:

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=herculescallingwwout9no.jpg

What do you make of it? I have more leverage than you do. You have nothing but your opinion on who is stronger.

If I said Thing was stronger than Namor you would laugh at me. But I can show you a scan of Thing overpowering Namor in a contest of pure strength.(In water) Does that mean Thing is stronger than Namor?

It's all about leverage homie. All you have is hopes and dreams.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
For the record I got this out of a comic book!

It's in the narration and that's good enough for me.

Then why isn't it good enough to say Sentry can stalemate Galactus?

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Then why isn't it good enough to say Sentry can stalemate Galactus? Like I said the FF, Alpha Flight, Zombies, and others beat Galactus on a monthly basis.

Galactus has become a laughing stock.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Like I said the FF, Zombies, and others beat Galactus on a monthly basis.

Galactus has become a laughing stock. .....matters on how u define "beat"

"I have more leverage than you do. You have nothing but your opinion on who is stronger."


Its just simple. We use name puns to determine evidence or not? because if we do, Hulk wins all the times against Juggernaut (example) because his name pun makes it so. Even if the stories -showed- or -stated- otherwise.


- - -


"if I said Thing was stronger than Namor you would laugh at me. But I can show you a scan of Thing overpowering Namor in a contest of pure strength.(In water) Does that mean Thing is stronger than Namor?

It's all about leverage homie."


No. Because practically all showings have Ben getting beaten or down.

In this case theres more evidence that she isent stronger than him, than the other way around. Besides that one, she still couldnt move the Earth and by story statements he held it. Its DC canon.

He either beat guys she didnt or looks even with her. Like the Sinestro clone.

If you even compare with Marvel Herc, she definatly has more lows.

Couldnt take the weight of the Heaven ladder, failed to stop the Specters fall, failing to suceed with the Earth feat (same goes to Superman and MM in those). Kyle did both. Hes the one deserving the credit.

Her best feat with sucess its the moon one. Herc has better and it shows.

Now its clear why i dont belive shes stronger? Has nothing to do with "she just cant be". Its more that the writers post crisis -never- did it.

At most and its plausiable for me, DC Herc and WW are in the same level of the top tier (strenght only).

Wich is below the High tier where Supes, Herc (marvel) and the like are (again strenght only).

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Like I said the FF, Zombies, and others beat Galactus on a monthly basis.

Galactus has become a laughing stock.

I know. It's said. Sentinel Squad One is the worst example. I think Bendis and Millar wanna kill him off, then forget about Abraxas.

Originally posted by olympian
"I have more leverage than you do. You have nothing but your opinion on who is stronger."


Its just simple. We use name puns to determine evidence or not? because if we do, Hulk wins all the times against Juggernaut (example) because his name pun makes it so. Even if the stories -showed- or -stated- otherwise.


- - -


"if I said Thing was stronger than Namor you would laugh at me. But I can show you a scan of Thing overpowering Namor in a contest of pure strength.(In water) Does that mean Thing is stronger than Namor?

It's all about leverage homie."


No. Because practically all showings have Ben getting beaten or down.

In this case theres more evidence that she isent stronger than him, than the other way around. Besides that one, she still couldnt move the Earth and by story statements he held it. Its DC canon.

He either beat guys she didnt or looks even with her. Like the Sinestro clone.

If you even compare with Marvel Herc, she definatly has more lows.

Couldnt take the weight of the Heaven ladder, failed to stop the Specters fall, failing to suceed with the Earth feat (same goes to Superman and MM in those). Kyle did both. Hes the one deserving the credit.

Her best feat with sucess its the moon one. Herc has better and it shows.

Now its clear why i dont belive shes stronger? Has nothing to do with "she just cant be". Its more that the writers post crisis -never- did it.

At most and its plausiable for me, DC Herc and WW are in the same level of the top tier (strenght only).

Wich is below the High tier where Supes, Herc (marvel) and the like are (again strenght only). I think your confusing fighting ability with strength. It's not the same.

The only contest of pure strength between Thing and Namor Thing won. So maybe we can say Thing is stronger.

Just because Namor lifted all of that stuff does not mean Thing could not do it cause hell he never tried it.

"I think your confusing fighting ability with strength. It's not the same."


Im talking strenght. Hes stronger. Skill is another debate.


- - -


"The only contest of pure strength between Thing and Namor Thing won. So maybe we can say Thing is stronger."


That wasent the only contest of strenght they had. Check the Namor thread. Then count how many he has over Namor.

Then count both records against other high tiers.

Then count both lifting/strenght feats.

Then youll see why saying Thing is stronger is wrong. Especially based on -one- fight only.

Wich is the case here with the WW debate. I have example(s). You have -a- name pun.


- - -


"Just because Namor lifted all of that stuff does not mean Thing could not do it cause hell he never tried it."


It isent just because he never tried. Its because he has lost the majority or has looked worse the majority of times he faced Namor and his track record against other high tiers isent on his level.

One is top tier. The other simply isent.

Here comes my comment on this match, be prepared.

First some ability analysis:
-Strength: Immortal Hercules and beyong godhood-Hercules probably have some advantage over the classic Juggernaut, but we are talking about the best version of Juggy as it is mentioned that he is in his prime. This makes the fight a bit unfair since the prime version of J is Trion Juggernaut.

Featwise Trion Juggernaut goes above Hercules, not too many characters go through fabrics of time and dimension with raw power. No version of Hercules would do that.

Conclusion: Beyond godhood-Hercules wins the classic Juggernaut in pure strength, but loses to Trion Juggernaut. Thus, Juggernaut wins.

-Stamina: This two titans can both exert themselves practically forever. And the Juggernaut can apparently do it forever since he does not tire at all. Definitely not when considering Trion Juggernaut.

Conclusion: Even a tie or then an advantage to Juggs. Either way, this does not play a major part in this fight because they wouldn't get tired during it, they have more stamina than that.

-Durability: Herc is one tough nut to beat in this one. He has taken hits from Mindless Hulk, one of the most powerful earthlings, without getting knocked out. The truth, however, is that Herc is utterly unable to hurt or harm the classic Juggernaut, let alone Trion. Juggernaut takes this easily.

-Speed: Not enough feats from Trion, so this can be given to Herc because he is faster than other Juggernaut-incarnations. Winner of in this aspect is arguably Hercules.

-Other talents: Hercules is a formidable hand-to-hand combatant. He has so many years of training and experience that it is not even worth counting while Juggy only has basic knowledge of hand-to-hand fighting.

On the other hand, Juggernaut wields huge amount of mystical powers, most notable of which arguably is his personal forcefield. This gives him virtually absolute protection against physical attacks.

So, from the aspects I evaluated Hercules only won in speed and it is arguable as we don't know much about Trion. Herc also is a better fighter. Big J got strength, durability, stamina and magical powers. Doesn't look too good for Hercules.

The only possibility Hercules has is battlefield removal. But how is he going to do that if the Juggernaut really fights back? If H throws and island to space Juggernaut just jumps off the island of smashes through it. If Herc tries to throw him he just uses his forcefield. Give an option and Juggernaut has a countermeasure for it. Herc just doesn't have what it takes to overcome Trion. Or even the classic Juggernaut.

But, Trion has time. He does not wear out at all. He could just destroy the damn planet and live Hercules into space.

Originally posted by olympian
"I think your confusing fighting ability with strength. It's not the same."


Im talking strenght. Hes stronger. Skill is another debate.


- - -


"The only contest of pure strength between Thing and Namor Thing won. So maybe we can say Thing is stronger."


That wasent the only contest of strenght they had. Check the Namor thread. Then count how many he has over Namor.

Then count both records against other high tiers.

Then count both lifting/strenght feats.

Then youll see why saying Thing is stronger is wrong. Especially based on -one- fight only.

Wich is the case here with the WW debate. I have example(s). You have -a- name pun.


- - -


"Just because Namor lifted all of that stuff does not mean Thing could not do it cause hell he never tried it."


It isent just because he never tried. Its because he has lost the majority or has looked worse the majority of times he faced Namor and his track record against other high tiers isent on his level.

One is top tier. The other simply isent. Olympian I don't think your comprehending what I am saying. Fighting and lifting weights are two different things!

In a test of strength Thing has bested Namor. Give me a issue # where Namor bested Thing in a test of strength.(Not fighting).

Wether it's arm wrestling, lifting weights, pulling etc.

What kind of strenght test did Thing bested Namor then? Lifting/pushing feat or direct combat? You can only measure strenght in those ways.

Can you get the scans of it so ill know what you mean exactly?

Originally posted by olympian
What kind of strenght test did Thing bested Namor then? Lifting/pushing feat or direct combat? You can only measure strenght in those ways.

Can you get the scans of it so ill know what you mean exactly? Direct combat is not a example of strength. It's a example of skill basically.

This is what I mean in a test of pure strength.(No fighting).

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/doggydogg2/ThingandNamorFF9.jpg
(Namor was in the water too when Thing pulled him out)

"Direct combat is not a example of strength. It's a example of skill basically"


Unless its a stricly h2h match, then it always has strenght involved. Otherwise Hulk matches with others wouldnt show ever how strong he is. And they do.



- - -



"This is what I mean in a test of pure strength.(No fighting).

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j...andNamorFF9.jpg
(Namor was in the water too when Thing pulled him out)"


Post the whole thing Snoop. Will you? There was more than just that.

At best from that instance, he overpowered Namor. Then again in Namor`s first apperance in F4, three of them tried to subdue the Mariner (Thing included) and he tossed them away.

that scan is so old anyway as to practically be irrelevent . ..

i would want juggy to win. but i admit hercules would take this one

How?

Originally posted by leonidas
that scan is so old anyway as to practically be irrelevent . .. But the Grand daddy of Marvel comics wrote that story.

Stan Lee! So imo it's as credible as anything.

hmm, i don't know. i get what you're saying, but i think it's usually more viable to use current material. at best, we can say stan saw ben as being stronger 40 years ago. that may or may not have a true bearing on how writers of today see things. many characters have changed dramatically in that time. just take sue for example . . .

and i liked it better when you and oly were fighting.