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Which team wins?

Great Ancient Sith Lords include:

Naga Sadow
Ludo Kressh
Lord Simus
Freedon Nadd
Tulak Hord
Adjunta Pall

I added Exar Kun, DN Luke, DE Sidious and Darth Revan for backup just in case.

WTF?

And why the hell is Revan thrown in here? Revan sucks ass in comparison.

Because Revan is around equal to DE Sidious. He would be necessary in case Ragnos were gaining an upper hand through some miraculous turn of events.

Sure he is.

This is stupid. Ragnos stands ZERO chance. Thats like all the most powerful people in SW history vs. One guy...

Like...gimme a break, Ragnos is good, but he's not THAT good...

I'd put Kun, DN Luke and anyone else (except Revan, cause he sucks in comparison) against Ragnos. Actually, Kun and DN Luke might pull it off alone...maybe

I agree this thread is ridiculous. No chance for Ragnos, he might take down one or two, but I doubt it.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
Sure he is.

Don't get me started. It seems I have to bring in information almost hundred times just to prove this point....

Too many prejudices against KOTOR characters nowadays... It isn't even because of fanboyism, since well there are not that many Revan fan boys nowadays.

DN Luke, Exar Kun fanboys, now too many of those

Anyways, I don't mind him being there. He's not gonna make a difference though.

Ragnos gets pwned. I mean, he can hack down one or two (Hord will likely engage him in close-quartered combat, big mistake).

Dude. DE Sidious would rape Revan hardcore. Yeah, DE Sids is weak in saber combat but his Force powers are going to net him the win.

Ragnos gets pwnd. He can't contend with all that at once.


Edit: DE Sidious is superior to revan but in a fight Revan probably wouldn't get pwnd.

Originally posted by zephiel7
since well there are not that many Revan fan boys nowadays.

Right. And anime is hard to find on the Internet.

DE Luke and Leia, with the help of the fetus of their unborn son managed to reflect the attack. Revan at the end of KOTOR is stronger than three of them (since the fetus doesn't really count for much)

How do you think that Revan will allow DE Sidious to conjure a force storm anyways? If he does, it is possible that he could block or return fire.

Revan is a big unknown too. If he was more of a force user than a saber duelist, it's very possible that Sidious was his superior in both regards.

Revan would put up a showing, but Palpatine beats him down violently.

Originally posted by zephiel7
DE Luke and Leia, with the help of the fetus of their unborn son managed to reflect the attack. Revan at the end of KOTOR is stronger than three of them (since the fetus doesn't really count for much)

How do you think that Revan will allow DE Sidious to conjure a force storm anyways? If he does, it is possible that he could block or return fire.

The fetus doesn't count for much? You realize this is force potential via Force Illumination right? Yes, that Fetus did count.

And this is a silly thread, I'm just getting a post in before it's closed.

Originally posted by zephiel7
DE Luke and Leia, with the help of the fetus of their unborn son managed to reflect the attack. Revan at the end of KOTOR is stronger than three of them (since the fetus doesn't really count for much)

Uh, their combined potential (read: not current ability, their full potential) threw it back on him. I highly doubt Revan's that powerful, especially since your assertion that he is is unsupported at best.

Yeah, Revan vs DE Sidious is another story. And this thread is waaaayyy over the top.

Well depends how Ragnos fights them, if one on one he stands a chance, however 7 uber powerful Sith Lords take on the strongest, the only being that can pull that off is Artoo

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
This is stupid. Ragnos stands ZERO chance. Thats like all the most powerful people in SW history vs. One guy...

Like...gimme a break, Ragnos is good, but he's not THAT good...

I'd put Kun, DN Luke and anyone else (except Revan, cause he sucks in comparison) against Ragnos. Actually, Kun and DN Luke might pull it off alone...maybe

Agreed.

Kun and DN Luke have no chance TOGETHER, let alone on their own.

It would probably only take about two of the ancient sith lords. We know that he had a titanic battle with Ragnos, so with Sadow (his apprentice, and the SW character who has displayed the greatest feats of force power) they could alone pull this off. Adding in the other sith lords and Kun, Luke and Sidious is just overkill. He could possibly take out REvan before he goes down, however Revan is smart and would probably hide behind Kun.

Meh, if he can dominate titans like Naga Sadow, I'm almost loath to say he loses.

Originally posted by hord06
It would probably only take about two of the ancient sith lords. We know that he had a titanic battle with Ragnos, so with Sadow (his apprentice, and the SW character who has displayed the greatest feats of force power) they could alone pull this off. Adding in the other sith lords and Kun, Luke and Sidious is just overkill. He could possibly take out REvan before he goes down, however Revan is smart and would probably hide behind Kun.

The only beings that stand a remote chance against Ragnos are the Ancient Sith, Simus is weaker than him and you haven't proven that he was barely defeated, nowhere is that implied for all you know Ragnos may have just went boom and decapitated him, plus if Simus was close to winning i dont see why Sadow would just stand there and watch.

Sadow and Kressh are leagues below Ragnos, for if any of them actually killed Ragnos they would acquire the mantle Dark Lord of the Sith, its tradition, whoever is able to kill their master takes his place. Yet neither of them dared fearing a half dead Ragnos.

Putting in 3 or more against Ragnos then he dies, however he'll take down Revan, Kun and Luke before it.

Oh? And when has Sadow proven to be superior to Simus or even in the same league?

Dude do you have any proofthat the ancient sith held the same traditions as the fake sith (dark jedi who pesed as sith). I gathered from the comics that they were actually quite noble and civil.

Kressh himself seemed to respect Ragnos, . Also, why kill Ragnos and risk a retaliation from his supporters when you can just wait for him to die peacefully and then claim the title of dark lord.

Kressh didn't because he wanted to countiue Ragnos's Legacy, if he had done so and then went on to countiue the same Legacy it would arouse much suspisicion.

The Ancient Sith noble? Dont make me laugh, Sadow and Kressh in their war caused the deaths of many Sith Lords, they were not hesitant in backstabbing nor betraying one another, and quite frankly Ragnos was a hated half bred that ruled with an iron fist, its quite obvious that if Sadow killed Ragnos he would have a better chance of claiming the mantle of DLOTS.

Oh and you dont realise Kressh may have simply followed Ragnos's legacy in order to oppose Sadow.

This is against the rules, btw. Way to know the forum rules.

Originally posted by hord06
Dude do you have any proofthat the ancient sith held the same traditions as the fake sith (dark jedi who pesed as sith). I gathered from the comics that they were actually quite noble and civil.

Nope, the fact that Sadow and Kressh "dueled" for the title of dark lord, and the fact that Simus and Ragnos "dueled" for the title doesn't suggest that they don't fight for it at all, doesn't it?

Ragnos was on his deathbed and was completely unchallenged. They feared him, he was just simply more powerful than them.

Nope, the fact that the ancient Sith are the source of later generations of Sith magic, lore, and alchemy doesn't imply a thing. Or the fact that Sadow and Kressh made about half a dozen maneuvers each doesn't seem to offer anything.

Kressh literally raised an ARMY and attacked Sadow to take the throne away from him, yet somehow, he's going to be timid against Ragnos?

Sadow literally killed his own people and personally deposed of his old master, Simus, yet somehow he's timid against Ragnos, a being he wasn't on the best of terms with?

Smart, it's time for you to come out of Neverland Ranch and back to reality.

He'll lose this fight simply because it's a ridiculous thread, but you need to get off that ship before it's sunk.

"Nope, the fact that Sadow and Kressh "dueled" for the title of dark lord, and the fact that Simus and Ragnos "dueled" for the title doesn't suggest that they don't fight for it at all, doesn't it?"

The position was open and someone had to fill it. Sadow makes it clear that he waited for Ragnos to die before seizing the mantle of dark lord, not because of fear but because of tradition.

"Ragnos was on his deathbed and was completely unchallenged. They feared him, he was just simply more powerful than them."

Firstly I do not dispute that Ragnos was the most powerful. Secondly your argument is not only flawed but very fanboyish. You are acting as if there are no other alternatives to Ragnos being challenged other then the fact that people feared him. That is a very fanboyish point of view.

Yeah right, Numan. Go away.

Really, where's your proof that they only duel when someone needs to fill it? Is this why AFTER Sadow becomes Dark Lord, Kressh makes moves AGAINST him?

And where did Sadow make it clear that he wanted to seize the mantle because of Tradition? I see nothing that supports that, especially since he wants to buck with tradition.



No, your opinion is being illogical. You're stating that in an empire where the strongest reign and where people duel for the position of Dark Lord, that Ragnos.... charmed them all to follow him for "a century of iron rule"?

Because quotes implying to as much in KotOR and throughout TOTJ don't mean a thing now?

And you still haven't taken into account that Kressh plotted against Sadow after Sadow was crowned the dark lord; he even faked his own death in order to lull Sadow into a sense of security. Yet apparently, these Sith don't make any motion against Ragnos just because hord06 says so.

Dude I'm going to say this one more time. I THINK RAGNOS IS THE MOST POREWFUL. Kressh plotted against Sadow for the good of the sith empire and not for power or glory.

Kressh plotted in a way that followed Ragnos's legacy, in opposition to Sadow, he needed a reason to fight Sadow and true he may have done it for the Good of the Empire, but he also did it for personal gain.

Originally posted by hord06
Dude I'm going to say this one more time. I THINK RAGNOS IS THE MOST POREWFUL. Kressh plotted against Sadow for the good of the sith empire and not for power or glory.

Then you are debating from nothing. We all agree that Ragnos will lose in this ridiculous thread.

All we know is that Ragnos was more powerful than anyone else in this thread, and from inference, likely considerably more powerful.

You arguing that he is only slightly more powerful is your unsupported interpretation.

I'm sorry, but Ragnos is so insanely, incredibly storng how? That goes for the Ancient Sith, too...I'm a bit loath to think a group that loses a war on three planets with six Jedi fighting them are such gods

Oh this again...

This again. Especially in light of evidence from the New Essential Chronology

Yes, because a compilation work suddenly outranks the source material.

Actually, since
A. the Chronology is a Lucas endorsed product and thus source material
B. the actual material never says a thing about Ragnos's power being incredibly godly at all, or his ilk for that matter, and supports Palpatine entirely...

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=proof9gs.jpg

I'm not so good with scanning, but it's legible, writing is on the right, shall I quote:
"Yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord of all time."

Especially considering the Essential Chronology practically made what we know and is fully accepted and used by Leland Chee to explain chronology, IE: The start of the Sith Empire and the Dark Jedi schisms...

Unfortunately, fanboy, a compilation resource book cannot take liberties with another's creation and claim "X is the most powerful of all time". That's called EXAGGERATION and HYPERBOLE.

Oh, good lord...what's the hyperbole? It's exagerration because you disagree?

Fine, scan in ONE PAGE of ANYTHING that calls Ragnos the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Cause you know something? Nothing does. In fact, DE called Sidious the most powerful Sith Lord ever...and a God in the Darkside...and his battle with Luke the greatest battle in history, and his power was so great it was felt by every force sensitive across the galaxy...

And Essential Chronology isn't a 'compilation'. It's an official product. And it just owned you. I fail to see when KJA ever claimed or showed the Ancients or Ragnos were superior to Palpatine and considering this product goes right in line with Dark Empire, an earlier product to TotJ-and hey...source material can't be messed with, hmmm...-...well...

Well um, just because nobody challenged him on his death bed doesn't mean they feared him. If he was on his deathbed, he was going to die anyway. Why not let him die in peace? And who says that he was LEAGUES above Sadow and Kressh. Just because the narrator says, "he was the most powerful of the most powerful," does not mean he was LEAGUES above them. Thats pretty much speculation. At least in my eyes.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, good lord...what's the hyperbole? It's exagerration because you disagree?

Fine, scan in ONE PAGE of ANYTHING that calls Ragnos the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Cause you know something? Nothing does. In fact, DE called Sidious the most powerful Sith Lord ever...and a God in the Darkside...and his battle with Luke the greatest battle in history, and his power was so great it was felt by every force sensitive across the galaxy...

And Essential Chronology isn't a 'compilation'. It's an official product. And it just owned you. I fail to see when KJA ever claimed or showed the Ancients or Ragnos were superior to Palpatine and considering this product goes right in line with Dark Empire, an earlier product to TotJ-and hey...source material can't be messed with, hmmm...-...well...

I already dealt with this foolishness. You are a one-trick pony, Lightsnake. Do us a favor and stop before you get hurt.

In other words: You can't. It's that simple, isn't it? You have nothing to back you up. You have a summary quote in reference to ancient times against quotes clearly saying 'of all time'.

I can bring in a statement from Lucas himself and you'd try to argue it. A compilation? This ain't a sourcebook, it's an official guide, same as the one to planets, technology, alien species and the like.

I'm showing you how foolish you are on another thread. Don't drag it out over multiple threads; Rex won't stand for that shit.

But he stands for you constantly acting like a total dick to pretty much anyone who DARES disagree with your views. For some reason anyone who opposes you is a fanboy, whatever they provide no matter WHAT it is is declared invalid but anything, no matter how hyperbolic or obscure is instantly gospel so long as it supports your view. Hell with that. I've provided an official source. It's newer, it trumps your old one, it's ALREADY trumped an older source written by KJA-thanks to Chee's clarification. Go on, provide me a quote calling ragnos the strongest IN HISTORY.

You know why most people here agree with you Janus? Because you and your allies bully and chase off and insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. The moment anyone DARES, it's 'fanboy' and 'feat wars'. In fact, you and your sycophants seem to have zero tolerance for anything NOT backing your views up, I've seen posters told to go kill themselves from your buddies because of dissenting views.

And while I'm at it, Janus, I know behind the computer screen you're a genuinely smart, decent, funny guy probably, but still, I'm more than a bit angry over your hostility in this subject. Why can we be labeled such when the other side gets off scot free and support someone who's never even appeared alive in a story? I apologize for that last message because it was somewhat in ill taste. I don't hate a single one of you, but can you guys stop with the fanboy stuff and insults, because, frankly, it's started from long before this and the last times on the board

Yeeeah, teams.