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I have to laugh at this guy. lol lol
Okay now that is out of my system.
He slept around and remarried 6 times and had almost 30 kids (from wives and mistresses).And this was all for one thing and one thing only.A legitimate male heir.No he couldn't have a girl! Absolutely not.He must have a boy.And out of these almost 30 kids all he had was 3 heirs.
And the boy was (of course ) first.All that work for Henry and all he got was a sickly boy king only capable of making it to the age 13.And he did an awful job as king.
And next came his oldest daughter who was nuts!Killing people,displaying parts of their body's through out town.
And the best thing Henry ever did was have Elizabeth "Good Queen Bess" the last person he suspected to be a good ruler.
The guy was an idiot.Or am I the only one who thinks this way?

Henry the VIII was a fool, I agree.

You got to love the episode of the Simpsons where they parodied him though.

Originally posted by X-Menfan87
I have to laugh at this guy.


why? He instituted a monarchy, that while not totally thought through, has sustained the Bristish people, and empire, for quite a lot longer than his contemporaries thought it would.

He's an idiot because he made himself head of the church just so he could divorce Catalina of Aragon.Which didn't work out the way he wanted,so later he tried to back out of it saying he shouldn't have done it,just so he could have his marriage to Anne Boleyn annulled.And both were annulled because neither wives gave him what he wanted.
That is what makes him an idiot.A sneaky idiot.But an idiot none the less.

He exercised his power to the fullest extent. He transformed Church the way it suited him - that was in his power, because he was afterall, chosen by God to be a king...or so was believed.

I personaly am a far bigger fan of Henry VII as far as politics go. He had it together.

The best ways to remember what happened to Henry VIII's wifes - beheaded, divorced, died, beheaded, divorced, survived.

I love that.

Originally posted by X-Menfan87
He's an idiot because he made himself head of the church just so he could divorce Catalina of Aragon.Which didn't work out the way he wanted,so later he tried to back out of it saying he shouldn't have done it,just so he could have his marriage to Anne Boleyn annulled.And both were annulled because neither wives gave him what he wanted.
That is what makes him an idiot.A sneaky idiot.But an idiot none the less.

I think that makes him a positive influence on history. I'm not debating his selfishness, but the long term effects are positive.

He was an idiot? A rich powerful idiot who took on the most powerful man institution in the world...and won!

Not bad for a half-witted. selfish, fat, lazy idiot.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
He exercised his power to the fullest extent. He transformed Church the way it suited him - that was in his power, because he was afterall, chosen by God to be a king...or so was believed.

I personaly am a far bigger fan of Henry VII as far as politics go. He had it together.

The best ways to remember what happened to Henry VIII's wifes - beheaded, divorced, died, beheaded, divorced, survived.

I love that.
No
1st (Catalina of Aragon)Divorced and Died,
2nd (Anne Boleyn)Divorced and beheaded,
3rd (Jane Seymour)had the sense to die before he tired of her,
4th (Anne of Cleves)Divorced,
5th (Cathrine Howard)Beheaded,
6th (Cathrine Parr)Out lived him.
Trust me I know,I had to do a 10 page report him.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I think that makes him a positive influence on history. I'm not debating his selfishness, but the long term effects are positive.
How is that positive?
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
He was an idiot? A rich powerful idiot who took on the most powerful man institution in the world...and won!

Not bad for a half-witted. selfish, fat, lazy idiot.

Originally posted by X-Menfan87
How is that positive?
So you'd be happy to be a pawn of the Pope?

Good point!

I really hate how he just created a church so he could divorce and killed women because they wouldn't give him what he wanted. I don't know much about the man but he sounds like a total ass.

I didn't know there was a History forum... Henry the VIII, is one of my favorite characters in history....Really exciting....All he wanted was a Male heir.....He would even kill to get it. Besides that he was so unhealthy that he had his own special doctors supplying him with herbal concoctions for his digestive system, and I think also gout. These physicians were not available to to common people. Also, if the common people used similar concoctions of herbs, roots...etc....They were said to be in cahoots with the devil......Witch Craft.

Originally posted by X-Menfan87
No
1st (Catalina of Aragon)Divorced and Died,
2nd (Anne Boleyn)Divorced and beheaded,
3rd (Jane Seymour)had the sense to die before he tired of her,
4th (Anne of Cleves)Divorced,
5th (Cathrine Howard)Beheaded,
6th (Cathrine Parr)Out lived him.
Trust me I know,I had to do a 10 page report him.

Ha, I just released I swopped the words around.

I do that with numbers, as well.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Besides that he was so unhealthy that he had his own special doctors supplying him with herbal concoctions for his digestive system, and I think also gout.

He was incredibly unhealthy.. He was massively overweight (had a 54 inch (137cm) waist). Suffered from Gout as you said.. he also had syphilis from birth... He had an ulcerated wound on his thigh from a jousting accident.. this wound meant he couldn't exercise anymore.. and this led to him putting on a huge amount of weight.

Originally posted by T.M
He was incredibly unhealthy.. He was massively overweight (had a 54 inch (137cm) waist). Suffered from Gout as you said.. he also had syphilis from birth... He had an ulcerated wound on his thigh from a jousting accident.. this wound meant he couldn't exercise anymore.. and this led to him putting on a huge amount of weight. Well I guess he gave all his wives syphilis then and as we all know syphilis will eventually destroy your brain and cause "Crazy like" behaviors....I think I had also read that Hitler had it, but not sure.

From what I have read about Henry, he was quite a catch in his younger days, and yes quite fit. It's interesting how the story continues on to his daughter Elizabeth with Mary (bloody Mary) for the thrown because of no male heir. Quite fascinating though sad story....Cause eventually Elizabeth had Mary executed, though I had read that she did have remorse over it, but still it had to be done in the name of the thrown.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well I guess he gave all his wives syphilis then and as we all know syphilis will eventually destroy your brain and cause "Crazy like" behaviors....I think I had also read that Hitler had it, but not sure.

From what I have read about Henry, he was quite a catch in his younger days, and yes quite fit. It's interesting how the story continues on to his daughter Elizabeth with Mary (bloody Mary) for the thrown because of no male heir. Quite fascinating though sad story....Cause eventually Elizabeth had Mary executed, though I had read that she did have remorse over it, but still it had to be done in the name of the thrown.

He was indeed 'catch' in his younger days. He was considered one of, if not the most attractive man in Europe.

Originally posted by X-Menfan87
How is that positive?

For a major world power at the time to come out and refuse the influence of Rome on the world? Pretty positive.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ha, I just released I swopped the words around.

I do that with numbers, as well.
I beleive that's called Dislexia.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
For a major world power at the time to come out and refuse the influence of Rome on the world? Pretty positive.
Revolutionary is a more appropriate term.

Indeed. It's hardly positive that the church was now organized under Henry, who liked to kill his wives.

Indeed.

Also, fatness in those days indicated power.

Victoria was a bit chunky too, for the lack of better phrase.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Indeed.

Also, fatness in those days indicated power.

Victoria was a bit chunky too, for the lack of better phrase.
It indicated Wealth not power. They thought you had plenty food, therefore rich.

Power and money were and still are to some point nearly synonymous.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Indeed.

Also, fatness in those days indicated power.

Victoria was a bit chunky too, for the lack of better phrase. Yep, and having curtains that were too long and draped on the floor amongst other things.......

Obesity was considered a sign of prosperity and wealth...The common folk were dead poor and skinny to the bone.........And probably didn't have curtains either.......lol.......at least not long ones...


Exactly...Many kings were puppets of Rome. Many were scared to death of Rome. Rome has taken kings right off their Thrones..

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
For a major world power at the time to come out and refuse the influence of Rome on the world? Pretty positive.
As true as that is the Pope still has some power or he wouldn't be treated like a god.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Power and money were and still are to some point nearly synonymous.
Money was and still is Power!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well I guess he gave all his wives syphilis then and as we all know syphilis will eventually destroy your brain and cause "Crazy like" behaviors....I think I had also read that Hitler had it, but not sure.

From what I have read about Henry, he was quite a catch in his younger days, and yes quite fit. It's interesting how the story continues on to his daughter Elizabeth with Mary (bloody Mary) for the thrown because of no male heir. Quite fascinating though sad story....Cause eventually Elizabeth had Mary executed, though I had read that she did have remorse over it, but still it had to be done in the name of the thrown.

not to change the subject, I enjoyed reading all of your posts. I don't know if Hitler had Syphilis, But he did have OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)

Originally posted by Fatal Smoke
I beleive that's called Dislexia.


Revolutionary is a more appropriate term.
Dyslexia is an imperiment in ones ability to read. Its when numbers and letters are seen backwards(or mixed/jumbled up). And Dysgraphia is when they are written backwards or mixed up. If one saw the word cat written as: Cta thats Dyslexia, If one would write Cat as Cta thats Dysgraphia.

Don't forget all the fat meant HUGE child bearing hips!

but just because they had fatty hips, doesnt always mean the bone structure was wide set ....my friend Jill was Chunky but the doctors said her bone structure was to small to pass a child, she needed to have the baby cut out.


I cant remember...which king was it that ran around nude and left his power to his horse?

Henry broke from Roman Catholicism for many reasons:

-presure for protestant thinking advisors

-the belief that his marriage to Catherine was sinful as she was his brother's widow obsevered in its 'childlessness' or lack of male heir see some chpter in the old test, I don't remember which atm

-the inability to have the divorce granted by the Pope due to him being held hostage by Charles V of HRE and conveniently nephew of Catherine


He also didn't break fully with Rome after the divorce had occured only with time, public support, lots of parlimentary bills, the economic drive, an increase in attitudes against the Pope and RCC, an increase in indipendant thinking etc did the ref actually occur. Henry died believing to be catholic, he didn't really do much different to RCC but had bibles in English.

Quite a successful king in a way, greedy and worried about his dynasty but he should have been, there was plently of competition for the throne on his death from opposing households...

sorry for the lecture but...

also, Elizabeth I executed her cousin Mary Queen of Scots(MQS), not her sister. Mary i of England died of stomach cancer, Elizabeth inherrited the throne as the closest relative. MQS was usurped by her infant son in Scotland(James VI), well by his advisors/regents as the people wanted a protestant ruler. MQS being Catholic was a threat to Elizabeth and therefore locked up, after plots to free her and attempts to name her Queen of England, she was exectued to remove the catholic threat from England.

Hope that makes sense and hasn't bored you completely

Henry seemed to be just like Hitler in some ways. he really must not like women or even gave them a chance.

Originally posted by cking
Henry seemed to be just like Hitler in some ways. he really must not like women or even gave them a chance.

Well he was King, most likely the women stood up to him which upset him, may be.

well he had his picks.

Originally posted by cking
well he had his picks.

Too true, fussy s*d he was.

One thing that I get fed up with today is the constant dramas on Henry VIII and Elisabeth the first, come on there is more to British history than them two.

yeah I know it seems like they view those two as the only history.

Henry VIII and Elisabeth the first are not what I called great reading in British history, in fact they are boring.

most of his stories are boring.bored

It's divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived.

And his first wife wasn't named Catalina, but Catherine.

You need to set the reign of Henry VIII in the history of the times.

England had been under civil war for around half a century - the Wars of the Roses between the houses of Lancaster & York. Henry VII - the VIII's dad - had basically usurped the throne at the Battle of Bosworth from Richard III (not a wholly nice guy himself). Henry VII then spent his reign securing the throne through his two sons - importantly two heirs - Arthur & Henry. Arthur died before his father, so Henry became the VIII. The need to secure the throne was the 'hangover' from the Wars of the Roses that affected the entire Tudor dynasty.

Catherine of Aragon couldn't give Henry a male heir - they had been married for quite a long time - and as such, Henry NEEDED an heir, or the dynasty would fail - just like his father - and as such he HAD to get rid of Catherine for the sake of the Tudor line (this is his point of view, not mine!).

He tried many, many ways but the Pope would not divorce them. In the end a man named Thomas Cromwell (distant ancestor of Oliver) came up with the idea of using Parliament to do it - a 'legal' divorce. To do this, the Church in England had to Break with Rome and Henry became the Head of Church and State - known as Caesaropapism. Parliament then authorised the divorce in Henry's name and Henry was obviously excommunicated.

Nevertheless, Henry was NOT a Protestant. He had, earlier in life, gained the title Defender of the Faith from the Pope and died a devout Catholic. What I believe happened is that he felt he had to make a choice - his country over his faith - and he chose his country. He worried that England would be plunged back into chaotic civil war if the succession was not secured. The reason the Church of England became Protestant was that Thomas Cromwell and the Archbishop of Canturbury, THomas Cranmer, amongst others, used the Break to their own ends.

So, eventually, he married various women and used his new power to get rid of those he didn't like. He wasn't purely a womaniser - he may have stayed married to the one woman who DID give him a son, but she died in Childbirth. His other marriages were purely political, especially Anne of Cleves who he married for alliance reasons having only seen a portrait of her. When she arrived she was so pig ugly Henry divorced her without consumating the marriage!

The succession was not properly secured, however, as the whole Catholic/Protestant tooing and frowing of the Sixteenth Century shows. However, this is not to say Henry VIII was a failure or an idiot. He was manipulated by his advisors to their own ends, yes, but he was very much a 'one trick pony' - securing the succession after the Wars of the Roses.

I found learning about Henry 8th one of the most intresting when i waws at school..

1st (Catalina of Aragon)Divorced and Died,
2nd (Anne Boleyn)Divorced and beheaded,
3rd (Jane Seymour)had the sense to die before he tired of her,
4th (Anne of Cleves)Divorced,
5th (Cathrine Howard)Beheaded,
6th (Cathrine Parr)Out lived him.

That was So nuts, I remember in my first year of History at UNI I had to study the guys whole (mostly marriage) history. SO NUTS

Well, except he wouldn't have tired of Jane, seeing as she was actually bearing children, whicvh is what the whole ball game was about.

Originally posted by Fire
3rd (Jane Seymour)had the sense to die before he tired of her,

He wouldn't have killed her would he? After all she gave him the son he wanted.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, except he wouldn't have tired of Jane, seeing as she was actually bearing children, whicvh is what the whole ball game was about.
He would have tired of her.He wouldn't have gotten riddin of her though.But when he was with Jane there were no sign's of misstress's but if had kept her he would have had misstress's later which many people didn't think she would have been able to handle like his other wives.

Originally posted by Koenig
One thing that I get fed up with today is the constant dramas on Henry VIII and Elisabeth the first, come on there is more to British history than them two.

Yeah and there's rarely anything about Henry VII, and he was the one who established the Tudor dynsasty. I loved learning about him last year, and he seemed like a really good king. He's the only king I know a lot about, in younger years in school I didn't take things in as much (even though I still loved it) but now I love learning about it even more.

Originally posted by ladygrim
I found learning about Henry 8th one of the most intresting when i waws at school..

Yeah me too it was really interesting. Elizabeth and Mary, Queen of Scots were very interesting aswell, I learned about those last year too. Any Tudor history is great.

As for Henry VIII, from what I know about him (which isn't that much) he didn't seem like a very good king. And didn't he spend all the money that his father had raised early on in his reign?

(I didn't know there was a history forum either)

Maybe King Henry VIII should've been a Mormon.

He just wanted a male heir. The one he got was sickly.

Originally posted by Leggy_n_Merry

he spend all the money that his father had raised early on in his reign?


I'm glad to see someone made this point.

Henry VIII was caught up in the spell on chivalry and courtly love and he spend huge amounts of cash to host pageants and feasts themed to these flights of fancy
of course, in real life, his gentlemanly conduct was as we all know less than knightly.

Henry was a Tyrant, but he was also easily lead.
Catherine of Aragons father Ferdinand (King of Spain) lead the young king on how he should conduct England's foreign policy.

Later during his wife-swapping years , we can see who was leading the kings thinking at court
there was two factions
the conservatives (Catholic & Pro Emperor)
the reformists (Protestant)

for example Henry's mind swung between the 2 camps like a pendulum
Wives I, III, V were conservatives
Wives II, IV, VI were reformists .

Henry's search for a male heir wrought instability both at home and in the rest of Europe, his obsession is probably born out the insecurity of being the only surviving male heir to an usurper of the throne and this I think drove Henry to any lengths to secure the crown to the House of Tudor.

Woo go me.

Originally posted by bILLYgOAT
Henry's search for a male heir wrought instability both at home and in the rest of Europe, his obsession is probably born out the insecurity of being the only surviving male heir to an usurper of the throne and this I think drove Henry to any lengths to secure the crown to the House of Tudor.

Little did he realise that Elizabeth would actually become one of the greatest queens of all time.

Here he did all he could to gain a male heir (who by the way was to young rule so he didn't really)and the best ruler of his 3 heirs was a GIRL! HAHAHAHA
What do you know!All the mayhem for nothing.And I think Mary would have been just as good if she hadn't been put through H$ll her whole life.