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Who would win?

And if you don't know about Mario and Luigi. You're fairly have a Unique mind.

SOra and RIku could defeat them even without teaming up..
anyway.. final form sora + dark riku = win

Agreed.

agreed

hold on do mario and luigi have all of their weapons and powers from all the games. If so team mario takes it

Originally posted by Tallis
hold on do mario and luigi have all of their weapons and powers from all the games. If so team mario takes it well maybe but I'm not sure

They do.

Eh combat wise of course Sora and Riku.

But Mario and Luigi would win just because they are cooler.

Yeah um..Sora would be like Z0mg I' m so sad abotu everything and then Riku wll be hsi gay self than they'lll Mario and Luigi will whoop[ their asses. Seriously Mario and Luigi are gods in the game world, Sora will NEVER be as powerful as they are. besides Sora's a cry baby.

Originally posted by Blaxican Style
Yeah um..Sora would be like Z0mg I' m so sad abotu everything and then Riku wll be hsi gay self than they'lll Mario and Luigi will whoop yea right, just one full (above lvl 60) combo would kill them both

bump

Seriously, Wei?

Team Mario dope up on Star power and play Strikers with Sora's and Riku's heads.

^

On a serious note, Sora stops time and electrifies, freezes or burns Italian ass, or a combonation of those.

Not when the bros have star power, along with every other power-up, available to them. Do you even have any idea how many amps the Mario Bros. series have come up with? They have something to handle any situation.

Fire Mario + Star power = flaming Sora and Riku, and I don't just mean in the homosexual sense.

Star power = win.

Let's not forget Mario can survive cosmic catastrophe o_o, as can Luigi if you coutn the bonus run thourhg of SMG as Luigi.

Mario can lift castles, and outrun, and infact, jump on, bullets. haermm Mario Bros win.

Why bump a 3 year old thread?

That's what I said.

EPIC NECRO

I seriously wonder the outcome, there's nothing against bumping it. I wasn't baiting anyone, the thread wasn't a disaster before, I just genuinely want to know what everyone's opinion about it is.

Generally that star power is overpowered

Take that away and you might have a match, but still, all things from all games still lets team mario stomp i think.

Riku goes berserk and mutilates Mario. Luigi screams at the sight of this and dies instantly.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Riku goes berserk and mutilates Mario. Luigi screams at the sight of this and dies instantly.

Hello friend, and welcome to planet Earth. Your customs are strange and new to us, but in time we will come to accept you.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Hello friend, and welcome to planet Earth. Your customs are strange and new to us, but in time we will come to accept you.

Damn, i was going to reply with a similar comment. Oh well. Yours is better anyway

Is rainbow Mario allowed?

Star power that lasts ten seconds, all of which will be spent trying and failing to hit Sora and Riku.

Lift castles? That were only five times larger than Mario, anyone who considers the castle feats in Super Mario World viable feats are morons.

Cosmic threats? Yeah, the Heartless are this, irrelevant.

Sora and Riku wait the ten seconds of star power, and then kill them.

Ever been inside one of those castles? A lot bigger than that.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ever been inside one of those castles? A lot bigger than that. Ever heard of Toonforce?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ever been inside one of those castles? A lot bigger than that.

the tower that is lifted up and thrown away is not

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Hello friend, and welcome to planet Earth. Your customs are strange and new to us, but in time we will come to accept you.

http://games.gearlive.com/blogimages/mariodead.jpg
Mario


http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/a/tools/wood-ashes-00.jpg
Luigi

Ok, my neck is hurting from laughing right now. Sin and someone else (V2D) made this page epic, lol. Giggling hard as crap.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Riku goes berserk and mutilates Mario. Luigi screams at the sight of this and dies instantly.
I don't see why not. Some apparently don't realize Riku is pretty much the same as Ansem at the end of KH1, whom in fact can win this via BFR in the same way he warped Sora and friend to a realm you couldn't see a speck of light in and an abyss with no end to it. Then of course there are is other abilities such as intangibility, throwing colossal heartless to attack you etc.

Mario will need his giant form.

Although I'm not sure why people bring up star power. Why is it assumed Mario and Luigi start out at this state? And even so it does have a limit (a short one). Sora does not have to be in aspecial form to cast Stopga. He literally just says "stop" and the enemy freezes and becomes vulnerable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Star power that lasts ten seconds, all of which will be spent trying and failing to hit Sora and Riku.

Lift castles? That were only five times larger than Mario, anyone who considers the castle feats in Super Mario World viable feats are morons.

Cosmic threats? Yeah, the Heartless are this, irrelevant.

Sora and Riku wait the ten seconds of star power, and then kill them.
Magma, bullets and whatnot in the mario verse are a serious joke, in my opinion. Someone mentioned stomping on bullets.......................that go maybe 5 meters or so per second. I personally don't count gameplay feats unless they make sense or go with some canonically established fact, i.e. that the spell stopga does freeze the victim in time. Although we should probably just use (reasonable) gameplay as it will be boring just talking about canonical events - there are probably very few worth mentioning regarding these characters, when it comes to a verses match. They need to make more game movies or something.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
http://games.gearlive.com/blogimages/mariodead.jpg
Mario


http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/a/tools/wood-ashes-00.jpg
Luigi Well this is funny.

Cop-out.

Indeed, it is. On the inside, they'rehuge. Welcome to SNES.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Cop-out. For someone who rides physics so much, you sure seem to disregard it when it suits you, none of those castle feats made sense.

If Mario can destroy a castle, why was he struggling to lift King Bob Omb and Bowser?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
http://games.gearlive.com/blogimages/mariodead.jpg
Mario


http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/a/tools/wood-ashes-00.jpg
Luigi

I agree with the Luigi portion of that.

The castle lifting feat doesn't break physics Overworld Mario castles are under-sized so you can fit them onscreen

Double edged sword, for someone who tries to downplay realism in fiction so much, you call toonforce when it suits you.


Also, because Nintendo liked the animation? He made the same sound and such when he lifted a baby penguin, then threw Bowser face first into bombs, and in Galaxy can send him flying by spinning.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Generally that star power is overpowered

Take that away and you might have a match, but still, all things from all games still lets team mario stomp i think.

You mean the star man power up that makes them invincible? Isn't that for like 10 seconds? Or is that a gameplay restriction?

I don't see anywhere it being stated that the brothers are limited to a single power-up.

Starman + Giant 'Shroom + Golden 'Shroom = uber curbstomp'd team KH

Not sure how they're going to do that when they're stopped/frozen in place with a stop spell that takes around .2 seconds to cast.

Also, Riku was (yup) the giant heartless fought on Destiny Islands, as well. Events in KH COM for GBA confirms this. Plus the fact as Xehanort's Heartless (called "Ansem" in KH1) he could summon a couple of these, colossal beings. They are around the same size as the ones in Shadow of the Colossus (video game).

Ansem is also pretty fast. In KH2 Final Mix he appeared in front of Roxas instantly and disabled him. There are more than one reason I don't see Mario and Luigi having the time to do much of anything, especially using power ups.

A spell with a casting time of one second does not a win make, when all power-ups the bros have are instantaneous. By the time Sora would done making his little pose and calling out "STOP", Mario and Luigi will be grinding the both of them into the pavement.

Now I think that Sora/Riku win, but note that stop isn't available in KH2, and since he forgot all of his magic at the beginning of KH2, it must mean that he never relearned it. Oh, and stop only works on non-bosses, and Mario/Luigi would qualify as bosses.

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Not sure how they're going to do that when they're stopped/frozen in place with a stop spell that takes around .2 seconds to cast.

Also, Riku was (yup) the giant heartless fought on Destiny Islands, as well. Events in KH COM for GBA confirms this. Plus the fact as Xehanort's Heartless (called "Ansem" in KH1) he could summon a couple of these, colossal beings. They are around the same size as the ones in Shadow of the Colossus (video game).

Ansem is also pretty fast. In KH2 Final Mix he appeared in front of Roxas instantly and disabled him. There are more than one reason I don't see Mario and Luigi having the time to do much of anything, especially using power ups.

I smell theories and straight up lies.

I never played Chain of Memories because the card system sucked and I had it on the PS2 so the level design drove me absolutely insane, but Riku being that huge heartless is ridiculous. Ansem in KH1 could only summon 1, and if I watched the video I might even find that he didn't summon it, but I don't totally remember. They are nothing close to the size of the Colossus.

The Timestop spell must be aimed, and Mario can easily avoid this. Luigi dies pretty easily.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
A spell with a casting time of one second does not a win make,Maybe not in every case. Here it does.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
A spell with a casting time of one second does not a win make, when all power-ups the bros have are instantaneous.And they somehow start off using a mushroom, a star, a flower etc. and use them all in .5 of a second? Whatever.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
By the time Sora would done making his little pose and calling out "STOP", Mario and Luigi will be grinding the both of them into the pavement.That's fanboyism unless something can confirm it. When were Mario and Luigi a fifth of mach speed, since they need to reach around that level to outbeat a reaction time as shown (4:28) used to cast a spell that takes .5 seconds:fbowlWQdAhc

In between 00:24 and 00:25 Stop is casted. When I see Mario and Luigi grinding opponents in less than the casting time (giving the benefit of the doubt they know Sora is going to use it) maybe your argument won't look like random bs.b5bkfZhQ_dQ

Sora is 16, and bigger than Mario (not counting fat) so what the heck is little?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Now I think that Sora/Riku win, but note that stop isn't available in KH2,Neither is all of Mario + Luigi's stuff in any one of their games, if I'm not mistaken. They made more Mario games than God could count.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
and since he forgot all of his magic at the beginning of KH2, it must mean that he never relearned it.If you were following along, Namine pieced back the bits of memory lost and everyone regained their memories/abilities. That is how Sora knew his friends when he woke up from the slumber at the beginning of KH2, and it's not like Stop is the only way option availabe. Till now I am wondering as to how the KH team is to be touched when Riku is passing his team across dimensions throwing the other into one (without prior notice).QW7dXcatPWAThe beginning of this. In case this is not familiar to everyone, BFR'ing (which is placing an enemy into another dimension) unless, the victim can get himself out without some kind of plot device, counts as a loss for the victim. It is the worst case of ring-out.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Oh, and stop only works on non-bosses, and Mario/Luigi would qualify as bosses.That's not an argument. A boss can be so at an early chapter and then become a normal enemy later on. This happened with the purple heartless knight in Traverse Town - he was not a boss in the coliseum.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I smell theories and straight up lies.Please be more specific. I just confirmed what I was telling about Stop and posted further evidence Sora and Riku have high reaction times (the latter is gameplay, and event-based, since since it is triggered and cannot be avoided, so this is pure canon. Where are Mario and Luigi's canon traits, if any?)

Riku being the colossus on Destiny Islands (3:47 - 3:57)dUNOGINaN6k

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
II never played Chain of Memories because the card system sucked and I had it on the PS2 so the level design drove me absolutely insane, but Riku being that huge heartless is ridiculous. Ansem in KH1 could only summon 1, and if I watched the video I might even find that he didn't summon it, but I don't totally remember. They are nothing close to the size of the Colossus.Him summoning one in KH1 does not equal he can only summon one. Through the double doors there were scores of them. Even though I can't find evidence he can summon them, on his ship in the last fight were many Heartless appearing around him, so he can definitely summon. So nevermind about the big heartless, now were are left with Riku BFRing (dimension warping) the team, what a shame.

You're right, they are not as big as the colossus. I had to take another look and compare the two. They are at least able to fit any normal human in a fist.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
IThe Timestop spell must be aimed, and Mario can easily avoid this. Luigi dies pretty easily. Aimed my ass. You could be surrounded and cast Stopga - as long as they are within the vicinity (which M&L will most likely be) victims are affected, as the video clearly shows. Being able to lock-on does not mean only what you lock on will be affected. If you want to give Sora lock-on abilities (which I believe are somewhat exaggerated in the game) he now can lock on the team and there will be no difference. Stopga does not miss; it is not projected. M&L are not somehow magically and miraculously avoiding it.

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Maybe not in every case. Here it does.

And they somehow start off using a mushroom, a star, a flower etc. and use them all in less than .5 of a second? Whatever.

That's fanboyism unless something can confirm it. When were Mario and Luigi a fifth of mach speed, since they need to reach around that level to outbeat a reaction time as shown (4:28) used to cast a spell that takes less than .5 seconds:


I'm sure you've played at least one of Mario title in your lifetime. The power-ups are an instantaneous effect upon contact by the bros. Starman, Maple Leaf, Cape Feather, Super Mushroom, Fire Flower, etc., etc. all bestow their particular effects on the brothers immediately upon contact. It's probably the plumbers' most unique skill.

You, my fellow forum-goer, need to prove to me that Sora and Riku can find a way past the bros. massive arsenal. Hell, I haven't even tried debating other factors, because really, if they can't deal with the items, then they have no chance.

Editing time finished. This is where they were before the video showing the endless abyss, hence this is 2 of 3 and the other is the final part. They were on Destiny Islands first, then transported to another realm:h-mEc1-riXsEdit: Once again, you are assuming they start off with all these items at their disposal (and can use them all instantly) which even with my knowledge of many past Mario titles is bs. Not once did Mario multi-use items all in a matter of half of a second. You also missed the part about them getting BFR'd. It does not matter what they have, unless they can dimension-traverse (which I think they can with a flute, or something).

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Please be more specific. I just confirmed what I was telling about Stop and posted further evidence Sora and Riku have high reaction times (the latter is gameplay, and event-based, since since it is triggered and cannot be avoided, so this is pure canon. Where are Mario and Luigi's canon traits, if any?)

Riku being the colossus on Destiny Islands (3:47 - 3:57)dUNOGINaN6k

Him summoning one in KH1 does not equal he can only summon one. Through the double doors there were scores of them. Even though I can't find evidence he can summon them, on his ship in the last fight were many Heartless appearing around him, so he can definitely summon. So nevermind about the big heartless, now were are left with Riku BFRing (dimension warping) the team, what a shame.

You're right, they are not as big as the colossus. I had to take another look and compare the two. They are at least able to fit any normal human in a fist.

Aimed my ass. You could be surrounded and cast Stopga - as long as they are within the vicinity (which M&L will most likely be) victims are affected, as the video clearly shows. Being able to lock-on does not mean only what you lock on will be affected. If you want to give Sora lock-on abilities (which I believe are somewhat exaggerated in the game) he now can lock on the team and there will be no difference. Stopga does not miss; it is not projected. M&L are not somehow magically and miraculously avoiding it.

I'd have to go digging through old threads to find my Mario stuff. However, I could probably find a vid of Mario jumping an incredible height, easy manipulation of which would make it very hard for Sora to cast his Stop spell on Mario. Luigi still dies pretty easily.

Yeah, those big Heartless were inside the door to Kingdom Hearts, which Ansem had no control over.

Yeah. That sounds about right. But still, they move slowly and didn't seem to be incredibly powerful. I don't remember what you were trying to use them to prove. Ansem can't BFR either. Those portals are just a way to show that Sora enters Ansem's gigantic form to free Donald and Goofy for their help.

I don't think Riku has the ability to do that either. I think he chooses to use less of his Dark power, or understands how to use less of it than the real fake Ansem did. Weren't they in the darkest place in the universe for those fights too? Seems like that might have enhanced Ansem's power, though there isn't any proof of that.

Mario can leave the area of effect pretty fast. All it takes is a jump and he's gone. I'll have to find that video.

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Once again, you are assuming they start off with all these items at their disposal (and can use them all instantly) which even with my knowledge of many past Mario titles is bs. Not once did Mario multi-use items all in a matter of half of a second. You also missed the part about them getting BFR'd. It does not matter what they have, unless they can dimension-traverse (which I think they can with a flute, or something).

I'm assuming they start off with their items because the op stated they had all items, and unless you've been under a rock since the 80's, you should know that, with very few exceptions, Mario world power-ups are instantaneous. Riku can't BFR Starman Mario & Luigi (and even if he somehow did, you just so conveniently pointed out that they can reverse it.)

Now, if the bros. were limited to only a few of their power-ups, and depending on which ones, I'd be willing to say team KH can win. This is not the case, which means the plumbers come out on top. No amount of JRPG flash can change that fact.

Mario has deminsion flip so... BFR isn't going to work.

Moo Luigi wouldn't die easily, he can do everything that Mario can do and a few other unique tricks

Sora and Riku vs Invincible Mario and Luigi





Seriously?

sora and riku


spite

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
Mario Bros.


spite

This is more appropriate.

Take away star power maybe

Certainly, lack of Starman would make this a much more even battle.

Originally posted by Cyner
Moo Luigi wouldn't die easily, he can do everything that Mario can do and a few other unique tricks

No.

Riku and Sora deflected thousands of Ethereal blades and dealt with enemies that would make Giga Bowser shit himself.

All of Mario's uber powerups don't even last a minute and it'll just delay his inevitable death.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, bro.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Riku and Sora deflected thousands of Ethereal blades and dealt with enemies that would make Giga Bowser shit himself.

All of Mario's uber powerups don't even last a minute

Seriously? You're a major JRPG fan, aren't you?

Less that a minute is all the bros. would need. Seriously, stop underestimating the plumbers.

The Mario Bros. are wanked as hell.

Star Power lasts ten ****ing seconds, Mario and Luigi are not that fast.

I already went over that point, Bro. Starman + Golden Mushroom gives them the speed. Giant Mushroom clinches it.

They are STILL not as fast as Sora and Riku, and Giant Form lasts barely longer.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I already went over that point, Bro. Starman + Golden Mushroom gives them the speed. Giant Mushroom clinches it.

So Giant form makes them taller than the sky? Can't they just fly up higher?

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I already went over that point, Bro. Starman + Golden Mushroom gives them the speed. Giant Mushroom clinches it.

The only thing the golden mushroom is going to do is act like an elixir. Mario is not a race kart. The Mega mushroom is only going to make him a fat target once the starman wears off.

Mario is not fast and his jumps aren't gonna save him.

Sora + Riku win.

They are faster, having shown to be able to run at extremely fast speed.

They are more agile, having shown to be able to block thousands of lasers at once.

They can deal out more damage, having shown to be able to one shot buildings.

They can fly.

Heck, they can ever JUMP higher (which is supposed to be Mario's signature trait), as Sora was shown to effortlessly jump UP a skyscraper size height in one leap.

Mario can jump on bullets, lift castles, and fly through space. He wins on his own. Facotring that luigi is here too, and they both have an asshload of power ups, this is spite.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Mario can jump on bullets, lift castles, and fly through space. He wins on his own. Facotring that luigi is here too, and they both have an asshload of power ups, this is spite.

By bullets, do you mean bullet bills? They move extremely slow, nowhere near as fast as an actual bullet. Oh, and I don't know why Bowser still has them in his army. They do more harm than good.

How big were the castles?

I assume that you mean in Super Mario Galaxy. Flying through space is irrelevant in this thread, unless if the battle takes place in outer space.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Mario can jump on bullets, lift castles, and fly through space. He wins on his own. Facotring that luigi is here too, and they both have an asshload of power ups, this is spite. Bullet Bills are the size of cars and move sloooooow.

Lift castles and barely lift King Bob Omb.

Fly though space? Did not play Galaxies, elaborate nao.

Originally posted by NemeBro


Fly though space? Did not play Galaxies, elaborate nao.

It matters not really, unless if this battle takes place in space.

Space is a ridiculously hostile environment, it's impressive.

Annd you're making the mistake of confusing what the player can see, with how fast things move in canon. A bullet would be unable to sustain flight/trajectory if it actually moved that slow Mario can clearly handle it.

Ever been inside a castle in SMW?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Space is a ridiculously hostile environment, it's impressive.



When he has a luma in his hat, he can breath in space.

...so what? Does that somehow make him more powerful? And one could argue that when Sora and Riku were fighting Armored Xemnas #2 in that void there might have been no air. Heck, it's likely, since it was all blackish despite the fact that there were (as far as I remember) light sources, and air is not blackish. Not only were they flying in it, but they were bouncing back buildings.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste


Annd you're making the mistake of confusing what the player can see, with how fast things move in canon. A bullet would be unable to sustain flight/trajectory if it actually moved that slow Mario can clearly handle it.


Are you seriously trying to use physics to describe Mario's feats????

How come in Super Mario Galaxy black holes can be at the center of a planet and somehow not suck the planet in? How can the "planets" (many of which are the size of a house) have a large enough gravitational field to keep Mario walking on them? How come the "galaxies" are in reality smaller than a neighborhood block? Why does Bowser's army still use ships that look like 18th century pirate ships?

The bills are sustained through some sort of hovering mechanism (like helicopters) or simply magic. And any random guy worth his salt can dodge those things, considering their sub par speed.

@the castle part:

How big is it? Did Mario litterally lift the same castle that was the same size?

PLEASE don't tell me that it was just on an overworld map and was just a representation:

In the Total War series, your troops are bigger than cities on the overworld map. Does that mean that they are? Of course not! It's just a representation.

Mario and Luigi are nowhere near Sora and Riku in power. You know how Mario typically has a few hps (ranging from 1 to about 3) and every times he gets hit he loses one? Well, Sora in final form can hit a rates of quite possibly (although I haven't timed it) over 10 a SECOND. Also, even if bullet bills were as fast as bullets, I could counter by saying that Sora could dodge LASERS like in the final battle. Also, Sora has shown teleportation.

Wow, Nintendo fans just don't get it, do they? Mario and Luigi have fun games, but to suggest they can actually defeat Sora and Riku is laughable. They're plumbers with toon force feats for god's sake. The "castle" Mario lifted was barely bigger than he was, him throwing it was just for humor like when one of the castle's accidentally blows up in his face. They can't actually live in space. SMG "planets" have diameters of like 50 feet at they're largest and they're only a hundred feet apart at best. The game isn't actually suggesting Mario can survive a vaccum, once again, it's just a fun visual. And to say they can jump on bullets? LOL. Bullet Bills are not as fast as real bullets.

Seriously. It's okay to like Nintendo, I'm a big fan of their games myself. The problem is when fandom becomes fanboyism and you try to use joke feats to make all of Nintendo's character "teh ub3r bezt EVAR!!!!!!111!!!"

What you're doing is like trying to say Peter Griffin >>>>>>>> Hercules because in a joke cutaway they have him surviving the vacuum of space and laughing after he was sucked out of his suit. Don't confuse real feats with silliness.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Space is a ridiculously hostile environment, it's impressive.

Annd you're making the mistake of confusing what the player can see, with how fast things move in canon. A bullet would be unable to sustain flight/trajectory if it actually moved that slow Mario can clearly handle it.

Ever been inside a castle in SMW? Show me.

Prove they are the speed of a bullet or shut up. Bullet Bills are not real bullets, they are sentient beings, ever consider they have the ability to, I don't know, fly?

Ever lifted King Bob Omb in SM64?

The only game with feats like that are in SMW, which clearly deviate from the norm in the series, since other times he struggles to lift far lighter weights.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Mario can jump on bullets, lift castles, and fly through space. He wins on his own. Facotring that luigi is here too, and they both have an asshload of power ups, this is spite.

The castle lift was clearly toon force just like his magical window wiper, surviving an exploding castle at close range with a black face w/ wide eyes, and a hill getting a white x when struck by a projectile.

As for the other powerups, they're nothing Sora hasn't already encountered before.

And seriously, jump on bullets? A mushroom can outrun those "bullets" and its not faster than my cat.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I'm sure you've played at least one of Mario title in your lifetime. The power-ups are an instantaneous effect upon contact by the bros. Starman, Maple Leaf, Cape Feather, Super Mushroom, Fire Flower, etc., etc. all bestow their particular effects on the brothers immediately upon contact. It's probably the plumbers' most unique skill.
Power ups having an instaneous effect =/= the bros can use them instantly, one at a time and definitely not all at once. It's obvious they can't "instantly" eat a mushroom (I guess they eat it, notice I'm not referring to non-realistic or misleading gameplay effects).

Just how the hell are they going to use a fireflower, mushroom, a star and whatever else they have all in an "instant"? Where in a game have either used all (or, several) of these items at once?

Originally posted by XanatosForever
You, my fellow forum-goer, need to prove to me that Sora and Riku can find a way past the bros. massive arsenal. Hell, I haven't even tried debating other factors, because really, if they can't deal with the items, then they have no chance.
Nothing is convincing you anytime soon if you think the bros are invincible, which they clearly aren't. Not only does star power last...for about 10 seconds, other powerups mentioned such as being able to reach an enormous size can be countered with Riku's colossal heartless form (which is shown in a Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories video on page 2) and Sora's enlarging potion which he used in Wonderland. Star power also does not prevent a character like Superman Prime to tear the bros some assholes.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'd have to go digging through old threads to find my Mario stuff. However, I could probably find a vid of Mario jumping an incredible height, easy manipulation of which would make it very hard for Sora to cast his Stop spell on Mario. Luigi still dies pretty easily.
So he's just going to keep his distance the whole time? By the way this is useless. Skip to 4:23:_Su0wHHl1xk

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, those big Heartless were inside the door to Kingdom Hearts, which Ansem had no control over.
Him having control and not are both unproven opinions at best.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah. That sounds about right. But still, they move slowly and didn't seem to be incredibly powerful. I don't remember what you were trying to use them to prove.
It took one to wreck Destiny Islands. I think that is powerful enough here.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Ansem can't BFR either. Those portals are just a way to show that Sora enters Ansem's gigantic form to free Donald and Goofy for their help.
No no...I wasn't talking about how Sora went in the portals to free Donald and Goofy. I said at the beginning of the video. They were BFR'd to that realm. I even posted afterwards the video preceding it showing they were first on Destiny Islands, then suddenly appeared there. Their reaction then is further evidence they didn't try to get there on their own and were clearly BFR'd.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I don't think Riku has the ability to do that either. I think he chooses to use less of his Dark power, or understands how to use less of it than the real fake Ansem did. Weren't they in the darkest place in the universe for those fights too? Seems like that might have enhanced Ansem's power, though there isn't any proof of that.
Ansem was Riku (and vice versa) during the Ansem battles. Events in Hallow Bastion show this; we saw Riku's soul/heart/whatever inside Ansem and he was trapped. Ansem was using Riku's body, clearly because first Ansem appeared as Riku in his dark form on Destiny Islands, then changed into Ansem's appearence. It's been shown all Riku has to do is "give in" and he becomes the same thing. There is nothing to suggest he lost power over time, that is like saying (for an example) the Hulk somehow got weaker since his last amazing feat. I don't see why KH team have to be in the dark realm either to pull a win.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Mario can leave the area of effect pretty fast. All it takes is a jump and he's gone. I'll have to find that video.
Video above and/or Riku grabs him before then (2:15).dnincg_SeZ8

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I'm assuming they start off with their items because the op stated they had all items, and unless you've been under a rock since the 80's,
Notice I said "and can use them all instaneously" which is clearly bullshit unless anytime you feel like proving otherwise.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
you should know that, with very few exceptions, Mario world power-ups are instantaneous.
Means nothing if they cannot use more than one item instantly.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Riku can't BFR Starman Mario & Luigi (and even if he somehow did, you just so conveniently pointed out that they can reverse it.)
I said I think so, but since no one is posting any kind of verifiable proof (links, videos, and pics would suffice) I find myself arguing for the bros' supporters, which is sad.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Now, if the bros. were limited to only a few of their power-ups, and depending on which ones, I'd be willing to say team KH can win. This is not the case, which means the plumbers come out on top. No amount of JRPG flash can change that fact. Yet somehow you are aware of all of Riku and Sora's items, powerups, forms and abilities and concluded logically they don't stand a chance. Ok.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Mario has deminsion flip so... BFR isn't going to work.
I'm glad someone feels like elaborating, now pretty please show a video, scan, or article so I know what it is, how it works and if this is a way to get around Ansem's clear ability to BFR.

Originally posted by Quincy
Sora and Riku vs Invincible Mario and Luigi





Seriously?
Because of star power? Ok.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Whatever helps you sleep at night, bro.
I doubt anyone cares as much as you seem to have suggested.

Yeah I didn't take into account Riku and Sora outlasting the whole

"Dundundun-dundundundundundun-dundundun-dundundundundundun-dundundun-dundundundundundun-dundundun"




.....That's the star-power music.

You'd have to prove that Ansem had control over Kingdom Hearts. Otherwise he doesn't.

Yeah, no. It took the entirety of a Heartless army to overrun one world. The big thing is just there for a boss battle.

Ansem controlled the power of Darkness. He only used Riku's body. Now that Riku has control of his body again, he does not have all the power Ansem had. He only has what he uses because he needed it to capture Roxas.

Umm, k?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Ansem controlled the power of Darkness. He only used Riku's body. Now that Riku has control of his body again, he does not have all the power Ansem had. He only has what he uses because he needed it to capture Roxas.

Umm, k?

Thats not true! Riku undoubtedly has darkness in his heart, and always had it. That's why the keyblade had never chosen him. It realized that Riku had the darkness in his heart before Ansem was even part of the equation. It wasn't strictly for Roxas. He accepted the darkness as power during Roxas' fight though, because Rox was too strong for him.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
You'd have to prove that Ansem had control over Kingdom Hearts. Otherwise he doesn't.I don't recall saying he has power over KH, in which case I don't.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yeah, no. It took the entirety of a Heartless army to overrun one world. The big thing is just there for a boss battle.
The little ant heartless were doing nothing, clearly. Maybe hopping around at best.

And at 2:44 of this I used before, Riku was the one who destroyed it.dUNOGINaN6kThis very video also shows as I said before that he was the colossal heartless. This was all done by Riku.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Ansem controlled the power of Darkness. He only used Riku's body. Now that Riku has control of his body again, he does not have all the power Ansem had. He only has what he uses because he needed it to capture Roxas.

Umm, k?
This is irrelevant. If KH team is at their prime then Riku is at the level he was in KH1 (assuming he got any weaker in KH2, as you are suggesting of course without proof). Riku being controlled does not mean he can't be used in this match. Nowhere is it mentioned characters have to be in full control of themselves here.

If this does not suffice, how about Riku having powers enough to actually defeat Xehanort's Heartless in Castle Oblivion (Reverse/Rebirth mode; this is Riku's side of the story), as Striding Cloud pointed out on the first page:

Having come to terms with who he is, Riku turned into a being halfway between light and dark in the "twilight". This allowed him to gain powers far beyond what he had before, which he used to overcome Xehanort at the ground level of Castle Oblivion. Knowing that he is neither completely dark nor completely light, he and Mickey leave Castle Oblivion walking the path between, not of "twilight", but the road to "dawn". Riku also knows that despite his victory, a trace of Xehanort still remains.

If that still does not suffice, 2:56 - 3:40 clearly shows Riku had all the power Xehanort's Heartless ever had, so your point is moot.qamgtQYTpPI

What are you serious? You want to use Ansem in this fight simply because he possessed Riku's body at one point?

K. Luigi gets to be merged with Dimentio and his giant robot that made the final boss in the end of Super Paper Mario.

Insta win.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
What are you serious? You want to use Ansem in this fight simply because he possessed Riku's body at one point?.

That's not what Shutter is saying at all.

Yes, it is. He is wanting to give Riku all the abilities that Ansem possessed, simply because Ansem controlled Riku's body at one point.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yes, it is. He is wanting to give Riku all the abilities that Ansem possessed, simply because Ansem controlled Riku's body at one point.

Riku was able to become him even though he was defeated permanently. Did you already miss the vid where he defeats Roxas? Riku transformed by his own will. That's something Luigi could never do.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
What are you serious? You want to use Ansem in this fight simply because he possessed Riku's body at one point?

K. Luigi gets to be merged with Dimentio and his giant robot that made the final boss in the end of Super Paper Mario.

Insta win. Please watch the videos I post, I even pinpoint where evidences are in them. Second in my last post shows Riku used Ansem's powers; this was in KH:COM, not in KH1 where Riku was possessed. Video on third page (which was in KH2 that took place after KH:COM) where Riku defeats Roxas also shows Riku transformed on his own will.

The other point you're missing is that Ansem has been defeated in KH1, and what appears of Ansem (X's heartless) after that is within Riku's heart. Again from the first page:

Riku and Mickey confronted the remains of Xehanort's heart, which lived on Riku's heart as a corruption of the darkness within him, and defeated him.

This was apparently ever since Riku "gave into the dark" so to speak.

They were two separate beings at the start of KH1. Then, during the night the islands were destroyed Riku embraced it.

By COM and KH2, they definitely weren't. Ansem was in his heart from then on, and also did not lose any power. Video in previous post (using again) shows Ansem is as strong as he ever was (dialogue proves it, so I'm not assuming anything). It also shows Riku had the SAME powers, hence "I used all the power you had to give, and Sora still beat me. I'm not at all impressed with your powers".

Riku using Ansem's powers isn't Ansem controlling Riku.

This is 100% confirmation Riku has X's heartless' powers and had no shortage of it.

Edit time passed. Ansem not losing any powers is confirmed by "you should know my powers well by now".

Why would he be saying this if the power he currently has, has gone down since the time Riku possessed the whole of it (Riku: "I used ALL the power you had to give"? There's a lie in the question.

For someone who may say later all the power Ansem had to give =/= all of Ansem's powers, that would be dumb considering Riku said this right after Ansem's (using Ansem now because typing X's heartless is getting tedious) statement: "you should know my powers well by now", indicating the obvious fact Ansem lost no powers at any point. If he was losing powers between games his powers wouldn't be known well.

Edit time passed, again. Aside from one of the things I said it indicated, for the purpose of showing it was not just part of his power he lent (which I'm not saying anyone argued, yet), there's no reason Riku would say what he did and meant that he used part of Ansem's whole power, immediately after Ansem telling him he should know his powers well. When Riku says he used all the powers Ansem had to give, got defeated, and he's not impressed with Ansem's powers, he does not mean part of it if Ansem right before this said he should be familiar with his powers. The only way that argument can stand is if Ansem said "you should know part of my powers well by now".

The last COM video was the console version. GBA version shows further description of the conversation, and it is between 2:31 and 3:00.K47blHueTlU

If someone doesn't feel like playing the video, the statements are "you've been conquered by me once before. You should know what sort of power you face" by Ansem, and "Oh, I do. I used all the power you had to give and still lost to Sora. I'm not impressed" by Riku.

So yes, anyone who would like to use Riku at his prime (when he had all of Ansem's powers, unless, the info provided by Striding Cloud on the first page saying "This allowed him (Riku) to gain powers far beyond what he had before, which he used to overcome Xehanort at the ground level of Castle Oblivion" is correct, in which case Riku at prime level is now above Ansem) may as well use Xehanort's Heartless at his greatest.