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Who wins?

Shimarra: I eat Jedi for breakfast!

Sids: Who the **** are you calling a Jedi? *pwns*

Anyways I have no idea.

DE Sids uses his force storm. Shimy is pwnt.

The force does not affect Shimrra. It would degenerate into a lightsaber duel.

In that case I see a stalemate happening.

the force itself, no...but a rampaging, destructive whirlwind created by the force could indeed

Yes, indirect attacks still work. What happens if he rips the ground from underneath him?

In fairness, Shimrra is very, very fast and powerful though...he was smart enough to force Luke into direct combat, too.

It's still a physical manifestation of the Force, which the Vong are completely immune to. Of course, if the setting is favorable, Sidious could just smash him with debris, but in a fair location for the Supreme Overlord, I can see him possibly taking Sidious. Afterall, he and his elite are virtually impregnable in duels save for deep lightsaber or amphistaff wounds, and it stands to reason that if the slayers - whose skin was like armor, and mended itself quickly on top of that - could take multiple hits from a lightsaber, their only superior - bedecked in thicker armor and possessing unfathomable physical strength - would be able to do so, too. With his massive, formshifting amphistaff and incredible skill to boot, it's likely that he's capable of bringing down Sidious.

While, true, it is as likely Sidious is capable of bringing him down as well. ..it's unknown just how much of a degree the Vong are immune too, it seems to vary from book to book

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Yes, indirect attacks still work. What happens if he rips the ground from underneath him?

I suppose, but Shimrra would try and close the distance between himself and Sidious. With a staff that can change into multiple shapes and withstand lightsaber blows, I think Shimrra could take this one.

If he can withstand a high energy beam capable of cutting through various types of metals, I am pretty sure that he can take a couple of pounds of debris thrown at him. He could also dodge Sidious' attacks. It depends on how far away they are from each other.

By the time Sidious is screaming "Hahahahah" tossing things around, Shimrra would close the distance and start doing his thing.

To the Force? They've always maintained a steady level of immunity against direct attacks, save for that peculiar instance in The Unifying Force, when Luke killed a slayer instantly.

And Jaina, Lomi and Welk managed to affect a few of them with force ability

When was this? The strike mission at Myrkyr? Direct instances, please.

After Anakin's death, Jaina lashes out with electric judgement...I remember Welk force choking a Voxyn, too...I recall specifically it was in SbS, and Luke's display of force on the Vong

when Jacen used force lightning on vergere and nom anor (and other vong) the bolts did not hit the vong at all.

I see this as a very close battle....


My opinion would be Sidious, but its really close and I cant predict the fight with any accuracy.

I can see it falling to a melee battle, which Shimrra would win. DE Luke was able to defeat DE Sidious with a lightsaber I believe. Shimrra was able to get a nearly fatal hit on NJO Luke in melee combat. That's a big difference.

Not to mention Jacen had vongsense when he did what he did

So its agreed Shimarra pwns?

pwns? No. Wins, probably.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I can see it falling to a melee battle, which Shimrra would win. DE Luke was able to defeat DE Sidious with a lightsaber I believe. Shimrra was able to get a nearly fatal hit on NJO Luke in melee combat. That's a big difference.

In fairness, Luke was physically exhausted due to the massive battles prior

I'd give it to the overlord.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
In fairness, Luke was physically exhausted due to the massive battles prior

Still, Luke was FAR more powerful at this time then he was in DE. I think Luke's power increase would well account for his prior fighting. Remember that Luke only won by luck. If Anakin's lightsaber hadn't been there he probably would have been killed.

If Anakin's lightsaber wasn't there, he wouldn't have been bitten by the amphistaff in the first place.

Whats the name of the book where Luke and Shimrra engage in a duel.

The Unifying Force ,final book in the NJO series too.

Duh! of course. bangin

Shimmy wins.

Originally posted by Faunus
If Anakin's lightsaber wasn't there, he wouldn't have been bitten by the amphistaff in the first place.

He was already at that point in the fight getting his ass beat pretty hard. We dont know how much longer he could take it.

A Force storm is MADE by the darkside, but it rips the fabric of space. Its not a "straight up" Force attack like lighting, or a force push. Its an effect of the Will and Anger of Palpatine, its not actually the force. It would be analogous to striking a piece of glass with something, cracking it, then that crack makes the glass shatter after the initial strike. So more or less Palpatine breaks the fabric of space with the darkside, then sits back and watches the effects. And since I don't think Vong are immune to a tear in spacetime. (I'm pretty sure nothing is lol) If Sids can create a storm, then he wins this.

Is his force storm similar to a black hole?

No, a black hole is a singularity in spacetime. A Black hole is a concentration of mass great enough that the force of gravity prevents anything past its event horizon from escaping it. The gravitational field is so strong that the escape velocity past its event horizon exceeds the speed of light. This implies that nothing, not even light, inside the event horizon can escape its gravity. So in basic terms, they "suck everything up". Palpatine on the other hand literally "tears" spacetime with his Force Storm. Its an actual rip in spacetime itself, its completely different then a black hole. Everything exists in spacetime (including the Vong) its usually given by the coordinates x,y,z,t where x, y and z are your actual physical coordinates and t is the time in which the event is taking place. Palpatine somehow destroys the nature of space with his darkside energies, thats how he creates a Force storm. In actuality, if something was caught in such a tear then it should cease to exist because everything must exist in space, and if there is no space (like the Force Storm does to space) then things cannot exist inside it.

Nothing can exists inside a black hole either, right? Nothing real at least.

Well, actually what happens is the matter that made up whatever gets sucked in adds to the size of the black hole. So it exists, just not in the way it used to.

AH, but what about the gravitational singularity, isn't it a point of infinite space-time curvature? I believe it exists in the center of a black-hole. Wouldent that infinite curve be similar to tearing space-time?

No not really. See even black holes exist in spacetime. If spacetime was "torn" in the same spot as a black hole, even the black hole would cease to exist. Even though the spacetime curvature is infinite, its still there. There can be no spacetime curvature if there is no spacetime. There could be no mass if there was no spacetime. EVERYTHING must exist in spacetime, otherwise it doesn't exist in the universe.

Then, it would not make sense for Palpatine to be able to create something that does not exist in spacetime. How does someone who exists, create something unreal?

With the darkside....

....................

Anyway, the vong were able to create artificial black-holes, so they might have some kind of defense against the force storm. Palpatine uses the force storm as a last resort.

Thats impossible to tell, if they have a defense against something they have never seen before. Unless the Vong (individually, like each separate Vong) has the ability to phase outta the universe, then they wont be surviving a Force storm anytime soon.

Hmm..but the Vong are technically outside the universe already. Everything in the universe exists as part of the "force." The Vong however are not part of the force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
In fairness, Shimrra is very, very fast and powerful though...he was smart enough to force Luke into direct combat, too.

Yes but in fairness Palpatine tends to avoid direct combat when he knows he is outclassed. He would try to get the Force Storm up as soon as possible.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Yes but in fairness Palpatine tends to avoid direct combat when he knows he is outclassed. He would try to get the Force Storm up as soon as possible.

And it would fail since Shimrra is pretty much independent of the force.

How? The force storm tearing apart the area around Shimrra and Shimrra himself would do quite a bit

The problem you see is Shimrra would have palpatine around his massive biceps forcing the old man to holler "uncle"

At the point of DE, this is Palpatine in his younger body and able to move faster than the eye can perceive when he fights Luke...this isn't an easy victory for Shimrra if it is one at all

And Luke wasn't able to do the same?

Sin Harvest-

He was "outclassed" against Luke and only used the force storm as a last resort. What makes you think he is going to think a regular monster like Shimrra would pose a threat.