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The little things that make you angry.

I'm sometimes pissed off when they don't always show the exact tonnage of things characters weight or the speeds they fly. That forces me to do extensive study of things and comparising the things in the world and in comics. Example:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1664/towsdoomsship13jn.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9116/towsdoomsship23zh.gif
The ship there has been described as floating city, so it obviously is big. But I have no way of knowing how much does it weigh...since there isn't a ship like that in this world. So all I really know that it is heavy.

It's easier when they lift/do something to things from this world, or when they fly with speeds where some kind of timeframe has stated. That's why comics like Ultimate Universe's are cool. They state speeds/tonnage/name of the item 80% of time.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The little things that make you angry.

I'm sometimes pissed off when they don't always show the exact tonnage of things characters weight or the speeds they fly. That forces me to do extensive study of things and comparising the things in the world and in comics. Example:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1664/towsdoomsship13jn.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9116/towsdoomsship23zh.gif
The ship there has been described as floating city, so it obviously is big. But I have no way of knowing how much does it weigh...since there isn't a ship like that in this world. So all I really know that it is heavy.

It's easier when they lift/do something to things from this world, or when they fly with speeds where some kind of timeframe has stated. That's why comics like Ultimate Universe's are cool. They state speeds/tonnage/name of the item 80% of time.

Marvel is great a creating ambiguous feats of power and strength .... I reckon you got this idea from my comment about the midguard serpent ?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The little things that make you angry.

I'm sometimes pissed off when they don't always show the exact tonnage of things characters weight or the speeds they fly. That forces me to do extensive study of things and comparising the things in the world and in comics. Example:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1664/towsdoomsship13jn.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9116/towsdoomsship23zh.gif
The ship there has been described as floating city, so it obviously is big. But I have no way of knowing how much does it weigh...since there isn't a ship like that in this world. So all I really know that it is heavy.

It's easier when they lift/do something to things from this world, or when they fly with speeds where some kind of timeframe has stated. That's why comics like Ultimate Universe's are cool. They state speeds/tonnage/name of the item 80% of time.

Ok the easiest thing to do is work with the size of it , hell all you need is an image of the entire island or some sort of scale to put it on . Then you can compare it to other objects until you have what you consider an accurate amount.

Originally posted by Doctor SKank
Marvel is great a creating ambiguous feats of power and strength .... I reckon you got this idea from my comment about the midguard serpent ?

Had this problem for a long time, but yes.

Originally posted by grey fox
Ok the easiest thing to do is work with the size of it , hell all you need is an image of the entire island or some sort of scale to put it on . Then you can compare it to other objects until you have what you consider an accurate amount.

Yeah. That's what I do sometimes.

Problem is that sometimes comics have the scales messed up too.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The little things that make you angry.

I'm sometimes pissed off when they don't always show the exact tonnage of things characters weight or the speeds they fly. That forces me to do extensive study of things and comparising the things in the world and in comics. Example:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1664/towsdoomsship13jn.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9116/towsdoomsship23zh.gif
The ship there has been described as floating city, so it obviously is big. But I have no way of knowing how much does it weigh...since there isn't a ship like that in this world. So all I really know that it is heavy.

It's easier when they lift/do something to things from this world, or when they fly with speeds where some kind of timeframe has stated. That's why comics like Ultimate Universe's are cool. They state speeds/tonnage/name of the item 80% of time.

Yes! That's why I recently developed a new strength-scale system to try and compensate. But as the good Doctor Skank pointed out in another thread, it still can not completely account for some of the gross inconsistencies.

And I do hate those inconsistencies.

I also do not like magic: plot device.

I also do not like when the following levels of power are thrown about willy-nilly, w/o giving any real thought to what these power levels actually entail...
1. Being able to take a nuke. As I illustrated in other threads, so much goddamn power is released in a megaton explosion, that Superman (eg) would need to absorb sunlight for 500,000 years to be able to counter that much energy with an equal amount of (aura) energy.
2. Flying or dodging at/near lightspeed. Jeez! There are so many things wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.
And lastly, my "favorite"...
3. Moving planets. 'Nuff said.

The above should be saved for only the very, very top tier characters. Otherwise, if they become too familiar, they cease to amaze, they cease to do the very thing the feats are presented to do.

I'm also not all that crazy about some retcons, though I think retconning itself is a good idea (or at least, sometimes a necessary evil).

The ungodly resistance to blunt force trauma that human (or mutant) bodies seem to have.

Healing Factors . Nuff said

Originally posted by grey fox
Ok the easiest thing to do is work with the size of it , hell all you need is an image of the entire island or some sort of scale to put it on . Then you can compare it to other objects until you have what you consider an accurate amount.

Google is a godsend in this respect. If you type in the write words, you can find almost anything. And if not a ready-made answer, there are formulae for figuring out obscure facts.

Sometimes I can imagine how Mr. Spock must've felt everytime he used his Library computer on the Enterprise.

Spock : *Looking at a 8888 post* This is illogical , Wolverines healing factor cannot allow him to survive a full scale heat vision blast !

I hate it when the Healing Factor is an answer to everything. "Wolverine could survive longer underwater because of his healing factor." What the f*#@ is that?

I also hate it when overhyped characters get turned into overrated pieces of crap, like Superboy Prime.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1664/towsdoomsship13jn.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9116/towsdoomsship23zh.gif
The ship there has been described as floating city...

Cool pics, BTW. I really like that art style too.

With this particular example, maybe I can be of some help.
When the World Trade Towers collapsed, it was estimated that there was about 400 to 500 kilotons of rubble. Prior, the Towers were often described as cities unto themselves.

A really big, fully loaded supertanker weighs in at about 500 to 600 kilotons.

An aircraft carrier (which, also, has often been described as a "floating city" weighs in at a mere 80 kilotons.

Judging from the size of the screws in the pic, and from what we can see of the hull and keel, it is reasonable, I think, to assume that Doom's ship is comparable in size to a supertanker or skyscraper, maybe somewhat bigger if you wanna throw in a lil' awe factor. It is probably safe to assume, therefore (in the absence of other data), that Doom's ship probably weighs in at about 600 to 800 kilotons. Maybe 1000 kt, a nice round awe-inspiring number.

Originally posted by Mindship
Cool pics, BTW. I really like that art style too.

With this particular example, maybe I can be of some help.
When the World Trade Towers collapsed, it was estimated that there was about 400 to 500 kilotons of rubble. Prior, the Towers were often described as cities unto themselves.

A really big, fully loaded supertanker weighs in at about 500 to 600 kilotons.

An aircraft carrier (which, also, has often been described as a "floating city" weighs in at a mere 80 kilotons.

Judging from the size of the screws in the pic, and from what we can see of the hull and keel, it is reasonable, I think, to assume that Doom's ship is comparable in size to a supertanker or skyscraper, maybe somewhat bigger if you wanna throw in a lil' awe factor. It is probably safe to assume, therefore (in the absence of other data), that Doom's ship probably weighs in at about 600 to 800 kilotons. Maybe 1000 kt, a nice round awe-inspiring number.

Thanks for the help. Pretty good estimate.

Originally posted by grey fox
Healing Factors . Nuff said

Without healing factors we wouldn't have Deadpool.

Originally posted by grey fox
Healing Factors . Nuff said
and sometime adimantium claws.

Wolverine portrayed beating the Hulk, Namor, Thing, Spider-Man.............. It's a load of shit. I like Wolverine but I'm sick of him shown beating characters well out of his league.

Originally posted by badabing
Wolverine portrayed beating the Hulk, Namor, Thing, Spider-Man.............. It's a load of shit. I like Wolverine but I'm sick of him shown beating characters well out of his league.


You guys are h8's

I get tired of Galactus not destroying the earth.

Jobber Auras

Unexplained personality transplants.

Same goes for personality transplants explainable only by rediculous plot devices. (e.g. Psylocke)

boy scouts

I'm not saying I think Superman should start hanging out with Lobo but just think about all the terrible stuff superheroes would be exposed to: rape, murder, child abuse, ect. That kind of stuff should have much more of an affect on superheroes than what is depicted. Imagine seeing someone you know is guilty of a horrible crime get away with it on some kind of technicality. How could you stand by and do nothing about it?

1. Multiple books for one character...This has kept me from reading a few books over the years. Batman specifically. No character needs more than two monthly titles. If a character is so popular his fans are crying for more, or you just wanna give a guy some more exposure, do an oversized quarterly book.

2. Magic. Only the supernatural (angles, vampires, demons) should have any magical abilities.

3. PIS...nuff said.

4. Upgrades and new abilities...only mutants should have powers that constantly change. And nobody should recieve a power boost simply because the story calls for it.

5. Superspeed...Nobody gets both superstrength and superspeed. It makes sense that someone insanely strong (Hulk, Juggernaut, Dommsday, etc) should be able to leap miles and run about 300 miles per hour. That's it, no more. And if your superfast, that should be your only power.

Originally posted by Soleran
You guys are h8's

You want h8 look at the responses to miders post's.

Originally posted by TheKahn
boy scouts

I'm not saying I think Superman should start hanging out with Lobo but just think about all the terrible stuff superheroes would be exposed to: rape, murder, child abuse, ect. That kind of stuff should have much more of an affect on superheroes than what is depicted. Imagine seeing someone you know is guilty of a horrible crime get away with it on some kind of technicality. How could you stand by and do nothing about it?

Isn't Captain America like that too? I can't stand a goodie goodie superhero. I need a badass in my life like Wolverine.

Comics that are nothing like the front cover............
comics that are 20 odd pages of the hero chatting to Innocent civilians with cheesy dialogue and then 1/2 a page of action in the comic

Originally posted by TheKahn
boy scouts

I'm not saying I think Superman should start hanging out with Lobo but just think about all the terrible stuff superheroes would be exposed to: rape, murder, child abuse, ect. That kind of stuff should have much more of an affect on superheroes than what is depicted. Imagine seeing someone you know is guilty of a horrible crime get away with it on some kind of technicality. How could you stand by and do nothing about it?

Maybe Superhero's like Daredevil, Punisher, even Spider-Man...but Superman? I doubt he is getting exposed on those much. Captain America either. I think they are boyscouts because they don't see those things much.

Originally posted by willRules
Comics that are nothing like the front cover............
comics that are 20 odd pages of the hero chatting to Innocent civilians with cheesy dialogue and then 1/2 a page of action in the comic

Oh yeah...like a cover with Hawkman and Black Adam fighting...then their fight being like one page long...

I don't like the fact that it seems like DC up until IC was hell-bent on all their top characters to be uber beyond belief. I'm not crapping on normal DC fans, but it's the fanboys that piss me off.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Maybe Superhero's like Daredevil, Punisher, even Spider-Man...but Superman? I doubt he is getting exposed on those much. Captain America either. I think they are boyscouts because they don't see those things much.

Captain America I'd agree with but Superman I'm not too sure about. When you take into consideration the fact that he lives in a major US city with millions of people and he as that pesky super-hearing and X-ray vision, then I don't think it is unreasonable to think he would be exposed to more human level crimes. Now Metropolis could just be that squeaky clean that such mundane crimes do not occur or Superman could just ignore then, either one doesn't seem likely to me.

Amnesia. I can't stand this plot device. It Has been done to death

Even Full House used it for its series finally.


It is cheap and stupid.

No comic book character should ever suffer from memory loss ever again!

Writers should learn to make their characters deal with all the crap they go through.

Doomsday. Walking plot device. Gog too. I stopped reading Superman when they brought in a clone of a villain from The Kingdom.

I hate unexpected de-powerization or power-ups to characters for no apparent reason. It makes the character not that interesting to read. When you get accustomed to seeing a character on a certain level, you expect him to stay on that level. Then, all of a sudden, the writer drastically changes what the character can do for no other reason then because the writer has the power to do it. An example for the power-ups in characters would be the X-Men recently. And the characters that don't perform on the level that they're capable of is just stupid. It implies PIS or as I like to call it: PIR (Plot Induced Retardation).

Originally posted by batdude123
I hate unexpected de-powerization or power-ups to characters for no apparent reason. It makes the character not that interesting to read. When you get accustomed to seeing a character on a certain level, you expect him to stay on that level. Then, all of a sudden, the writer drastically changes what the character can do for no other reason then because the writer has the power to do it. An example for the power-ups in characters would be the X-Men recently. And the characters that don't perform on the level that they're capable of is just stupid. It implies PIS or as I like to call it: PIR (Plot Induced Retardation).

^^^ Ya guys know what I mean?

word to your mother 4 r3al playa

Hells yeah dawg.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Captain America I'd agree with but Superman I'm not too sure about. When you take into consideration the fact that he lives in a major US city with millions of people and he as that pesky super-hearing and X-ray vision, then I don't think it is unreasonable to think he would be exposed to more human level crimes. Now Metropolis could just be that squeaky clean that such mundane crimes do not occur or Superman could just ignore then, either one doesn't seem likely to me.

I've read a LOT OF Superman stories...and trust me...the guy isn't always a squeaky clean boyscout.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I've read a LOT OF Superman stories...and trust me...the guy isn't always a squeaky clean boyscout.

Oh, I know. I was complaining about the boy scout persona more than any individual character.

Originally posted by batdude123
I hate unexpected de-powerization or power-ups to characters for no apparent reason. It makes the character not that interesting to read. When you get accustomed to seeing a character on a certain level, you expect him to stay on that level. Then, all of a sudden, the writer drastically changes what the character can do for no other reason then because the writer has the power to do it. An example for the power-ups in characters would be the X-Men recently. And the characters that don't perform on the level that they're capable of is just stupid. It implies PIS or as I like to call it: PIR (Plot Induced Retardation).

I agree wholeheartedly. Pointless powerups==they ran outof good ideas.

Originally posted by batdude123
I hate unexpected de-powerization or power-ups to characters for no apparent reason. It makes the character not that interesting to read. When you get accustomed to seeing a character on a certain level, you expect him to stay on that level. Then, all of a sudden, the writer drastically changes what the character can do for no other reason then because the writer has the power to do it. An example for the power-ups in characters would be the X-Men recently. And the characters that don't perform on the level that they're capable of is just stupid. It implies PIS or as I like to call it: PIR (Plot Induced Retardation).

From what I'm guessing, you're primarily a DC fan. Hearing that from you shows good character. Awesome.

comparing skyscrapers and aircraft carriers is like comparing apples to oranges. you're neglecting the fact that, essentially, all watercraft must be bouyant enough to float. or, at the very least, able to float with very little assistance from turbines, propellers, etc. a skyscraper would sink like a stone if placed in the water, simply because it's not designed to float. so, while you're comparing sizes, it doesn't really make much sense to hold their relative weights as decent, comparable measurements.

also, it looked, to me, like namor was resisting the torque of the propeller until it snapped off. he may also have been holding the ship in place, which really only means he stopped its forward momentum after cutting off its power supply. that in itself is quite impressive, but really has little to do with the weight of the ship.


Originally posted by Crease
5. Superspeed...Nobody gets both superstrength and superspeed. It makes sense that someone insanely strong (Hulk, Juggernaut, Dommsday, etc) should be able to leap miles and run about 300 miles per hour. That's it, no more. And if your superfast, that should be your only power.

that's actually not true. most superstrong characters can move at somewhat accelerated speeds due to their overall adaption, but very few are designed to move at "superspeeds," especially not at 300 miles per hour. i went into the actual biological reasons why in another thread, but it basically comes down to two different types of muscle tissue. fast-twitch, which is used for quick, repetitive motions, and slow-twitch, which is used for overall strength. running, which is a combination of coordination and strengthened fast-twitch fibers, is not very well linked to lifting. it's true that both fibers will be strengthened to different degrees during different exercises but that does not mean superstrong should equate to superspeed. their muscularity would have to be at least one and a half again times as large to accomodate the appropriate fast-twitch fibers.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Captain America I'd agree with but Superman I'm not too sure about. When you take into consideration the fact that he lives in a major US city with millions of people and he as that pesky super-hearing and X-ray vision, then I don't think it is unreasonable to think he would be exposed to more human level crimes. Now Metropolis could just be that squeaky clean that such mundane crimes do not occur or Superman could just ignore then, either one doesn't seem likely to me.

Would you do crimes in city where a man who can move with lightspeeds and moves skyscrapers like nothing hears your every move? Especially if you don't have superpowers?

That true death is nearly impossible, and can always be retconned later.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Would you do crimes in city where a man who can move with lightspeeds and moves skyscrapers like nothing hears your every move? Especially if you don't have superpowers?

Yeah, I would just make sure I steered clear of Lois

Originally posted by TheKahn
Yeah, I would just make sure I steered clear of Lois
Depends who's drawing her...........

Oh, and another one: time travel

Silly costumes and silly monikers.

That no matter how many times Galactus visits Earth, New York gets wrecked in an Avengers brawl, mystical and interstellar invasions etc. etc. - that people continue to be SO HUNG UP about "the mutant threat", and how being born with powers is somehow the worse thing to happen to humanity. There are bigger things for people of Earth to worry about; how much longer can this be milked? Cripes.

That the X-Men's storyline takes continuity over the rest of the MU because it's the X-Men.

Originally posted by Disappear
comparing skyscrapers and aircraft carriers is like comparing apples to oranges. you're neglecting the fact that, essentially, all watercraft must be bouyant enough to float. or, at the very least, able to float with very little assistance from turbines, propellers, etc. a skyscraper would sink like a stone if placed in the water, simply because it's not designed to float. so, while you're comparing sizes, it doesn't really make much sense to hold their relative weights as decent, comparable measurements.

also, it looked, to me, like namor was resisting the torque of the propeller until it snapped off. he may also have been holding the ship in place, which really only means he stopped its forward momentum after cutting off its power supply. that in itself is quite impressive, but really has little to do with the weight of the ship.




that's actually not true. most superstrong characters can move at somewhat accelerated speeds due to their overall adaption, but very few are designed to move at "superspeeds," especially not at 300 miles per hour. i went into the actual biological reasons why in another thread, but it basically comes down to two different types of muscle tissue. fast-twitch, which is used for quick, repetitive motions, and slow-twitch, which is used for overall strength. running, which is a combination of coordination and strengthened fast-twitch fibers, is not very well linked to lifting. it's true that both fibers will be strengthened to different degrees during different exercises but that does not mean superstrong should equate to superspeed. their muscularity would have to be at least one and a half again times as large to accomodate the appropriate fast-twitch fibers.


There was a character in Sovereign Seven named Reflex. He was built like the Hulk, but he wasn't all that super strong, he could maybe lift a car. However, he was fast enough to beat Impulse (at his '96 or so power level) in a game of tag. How? Reflex's vast bulk was all fast-twitch muscle. I miss S7

Cool... the boat science thing souns scarily complicated...

I hate Wolverine's fanboy powers- he's far weaker than many chractares but half the time he beats bad guys beyond that of FAR stronger people...

Originally posted by roughrider
That no matter how many times Galactus visits Earth, New York gets wrecked in an Avengers brawl, mystical and interstellar invasions etc. etc. - that people continue to be SO HUNG UP about "the mutant threat", and how being born with powers is somehow the worse thing to happen to humanity. There are bigger things for people of Earth to worry about; how much longer can this be milked? Cripes.

I have to agree , also the Mutants are supposed to be a minority , yet they occupy 65 percent of the planet from what i understand ?

What is the mutant gene like AIDS or something ?

When a Marvel lady character comes out the bath and put's a towel, meaning no nudity.

Originally posted by Disappear
comparing skyscrapers and aircraft carriers is like comparing apples to oranges. you're neglecting the fact that, essentially, all watercraft must be bouyant enough to float. or, at the very least, able to float with very little assistance from turbines, propellers, etc. a skyscraper would sink like a stone if placed in the water, simply because it's not designed to float. so, while you're comparing sizes, it doesn't really make much sense to hold their relative weights as decent, comparable measurements.

also, it looked, to me, like namor was resisting the torque of the propeller until it snapped off. he may also have been holding the ship in place, which really only means he stopped its forward momentum after cutting off its power supply. that in itself is quite impressive, but really has little to do with the weight of the ship.




that's actually not true. most superstrong characters can move at somewhat accelerated speeds due to their overall adaption, but very few are designed to move at "superspeeds," especially not at 300 miles per hour. i went into the actual biological reasons why in another thread, but it basically comes down to two different types of muscle tissue. fast-twitch, which is used for quick, repetitive motions, and slow-twitch, which is used for overall strength. running, which is a combination of coordination and strengthened fast-twitch fibers, is not very well linked to lifting. it's true that both fibers will be strengthened to different degrees during different exercises but that does not mean superstrong should equate to superspeed. their muscularity would have to be at least one and a half again times as large to accomodate the appropriate fast-twitch fibers.

You go girl!!!!

Originally posted by Disappear
1. Comparing skyscrapers and aircraft carriers is like comparing apples to oranges. you're neglecting the fact that, essentially, all watercraft must be bouyant enough to float. or, at the very least, able to float with very little assistance from turbines, propellers, etc. a skyscraper would sink like a stone if placed in the water, simply because it's not designed to float. so, while you're comparing sizes, it doesn't really make much sense to hold their relative weights as decent, comparable measurements.
2. Also, it looked, to me, like namor was resisting the torque of the propeller until it snapped off. he may also have been holding the ship in place, which really only means he stopped its forward momentum after cutting off its power supply. that in itself is quite impressive, but really has little to do with the weight of the ship.

1. Generally speaking you're right, in terms of mass relating to buoyancy. But I believe one can still compare sheer tonnage as it relates to gravity on dry land.
2. Also good point. Namor was not lifting the vessel (otherwise he'd be even stronger than already considered), but he did have to deal with its momentum, as you said, still impressive, especially since he didn't have anything solid to push against to help him.

...most superstrong characters can move at somewhat accelerated speeds due to their overall adaption, but very few are designed to move at "superspeeds," especially not at 300 miles per hour. i went into the actual biological reasons why in another thread, but it basically comes down to two different types of muscle tissue. fast-twitch, which is used for quick, repetitive motions, and slow-twitch, which is used for overall strength. running, which is a combination of coordination and strengthened fast-twitch fibers, is not very well linked to lifting. it's true that both fibers will be strengthened to different degrees during different exercises but that does not mean superstrong should equate to superspeed. their muscularity would have to be at least one and a half again times as large to accomodate the appropriate fast-twitch fibers.

What complicates this excellent observation is that many characters have other factors allowing them to move superfast. Flash, for example, has the speedforce; Wonder Woman has magic. Otherwise, there would be more than just fast-twitch vs slow-twitch fibers to worry about, especially as one nears lightspeed and relativistic effects begin to weigh in.

Originally posted by Blood_Rayne
Isn't Captain America like that too? I can't stand a goodie goodie superhero. I need a badass in my life like Wolverine.

What Cap isnt badass?

Seriously, a guy who beats the crap out of guys with a sheild is a hell of a lot more badass then a hairy midget with claws.

urg, i'll never understand women

I like Captain America, personally. The guy is beyond amazing when it comes to combat. He is the textbook definition of boyscout though. Not that I mind.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You go girl!!!!

Disappear is a girl?

No wait...he isn't. But hell you had me there.

Can't even count all the times I have been confused with someone's gender...

Originally posted by Grimm22
...urg, i'll never understand women

It's a power thing.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Disappear is a girl?

No wait...he isn't. But hell you had me there.

Can't even count all the times I have been confused with someone's gender...

My chromosomes are firmly Y .


Originally posted by Dayscribe
I like Captain America, personally. The guy is beyond amazing when it comes to combat. He is the textbook definition of boyscout though. Not that I mind.

Damn straight , take CW #1 for instance , how bad-ass were his skills then .

Originally posted by Mindship
What complicates this excellent observation is that many characters have other factors allowing them to move superfast. Flash, for example, has the speedforce; Wonder Woman has magic. Otherwise, there would be more than just fast-twitch vs slow-twitch fibers to worry about, especially as one nears lightspeed and relativistic effects begin to weigh in.

i was referring primarily to marvel. all that dc-physics shit is beyond my level of expertise. i just don't care for it.

and thanks to GS. you know you did something right when the most intellectually argumentative member of the board's on your side.

and i am definitively male. it was probably just an expression, probably.

"Magical" pregnancies. The Scarlet Witch, Ms. Marvel, and Power Girl have all had them. Can't a girl just get knocked up the good old-fashioned way?

As a sidenote, the term 'love triangle' has always sounded a little inaccurate to me. A triangle implies that all three parties are interested in one another (ex. Bob likes Karen who likes Sam who likes Bob). The classic 'love triangle' (like Scott and Logan both loving Jean) is more of a 'love V', really, with the two legs connected to the same point.

I hate the fact that some characters are strong enough to move planets. Planets don't even weigh anything so how do they do it? And how actually do they do it? On the crust? What does Superman do a handstand on the ground and try to push?

I also hate when people are like: "Superman can punch through time." Seriously, what does that even mean?

Originally posted by Jabba the Hutt
I hate the fact that some characters are strong enough to move planets. Planets don't even weigh anything so how do they do it?

...yes, they do weigh something. Quite a lot actually...

I hate overpowerful characters. At times Thor, Hulk etc seem bit too powerful. Not to mention most of their enemies.

Exactly why I like some of the elder X-men comics. Sure, they have had their share of the superduperhypercyber(?) powerful enemies too, but not that often. Or, at least I've missed some of those comics.

Another thing is stupid upgrades.

I mean, First. Superman was faster than a speeding bullet etc etc level. Now, he's capable of moving moons and moving on the speed of light and beyond it.

I also hate when some lesser beings able to defeat greater beings WITHOUT a proper reason why they were able to win.

My.. err. Few cents

Originally posted by Jabba the Hutt
I hate the fact that some characters are strong enough to move planets...how actually do they do it? On the crust? What does Superman do a handstand on the ground and try to push?

The first time I saw (pre-crisis) Superman push a planet, that's exactly what he was doing (except he was in regular, horizontal flying position, and the planet's horizon was vertical).

I also hate when people are like: "Superman can punch through time." Seriously, what does that even mean?
It means desperate one-upmanship...and I like Superman!

I like the powerhouse battles actually...The Hulk vs. Thing and sooo...And I just can't wait for a Juggernaut vs. Colossus comic a mini like vs. Venom was...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
...yes, they do weigh something. Quite a lot actually...

I'm pretty sure it doesn't really weigh anything. It has lots of mass though which is a little different than weight.

Originally posted by Jabba the Hutt
I'm pretty sure it doesn't really weigh anything. It has lots of mass though which is a little different than weight.

Hmm. Sounds like splitting hairs.
"Weight" is what you get when mass is measured in terms of a gravitational field pulling down on it. In that sense, perhaps, a planet "doesn't really weigh anything," in that there is no platform/scale upon which to rest it. However, as you've pointed out, it does have mass, and scientists can therefore estimate a planet's weight by 1) determining what material(s) the planet is made of; 2) knowing how much said material(s) weigh per given unit of volume; and 3) multiplying that figure by the planet's total volume.

Example: Planet Jabba is made of iron-silicate. Iron-silicate weighs 1 ton per cubic meter. We know Planet Jabba's diameter, therefore we can determine its volume (1 zillion cubic meters). Thus, Planet Jabba "weighs" 1 zillion tons.

It's actually a quite simple affair with straighforward math.

I have many things actually.
One of which is the priority X-Men have been given in terms of the MU and continuity. I loved the X-Men when they were mostly low to powerful street levelers that had to deal with prejudice not saying that is what the central theme should always be but the power levels should never change really. Also Mutant powers that make no sense basically Scarlet Witch is the best example how can a mutation allow someone to manipulate reality.

Following this theme Power-ups without reason are quite maddening.

Magic used incorrectly. Basically when used right magic is very acceptable as a power set so long as it is a defined set when it starts to become a plot device it has over stepped its boundaries.

The idea of a Multi-verse more of Marvels though. The need was necessary with all the retcons and continuity problems. Still the fact it got so bad so that it had to happen is still bad. Anyway the idea of Marvel's Multiverse stinks basically a whole bunch of different universes just in one place sucks. Why because originally beings like Galactus and Eternity were one of kind characters but that is thrown out the window because every Universe has its own Galactus and its own Eternity. It takes away from the notion and thought of a character. While I still don't like Multi-verses DC did a better job of it. Making more structured in its making. DC's Multiverse being more like a ladder. with all the little universes in one spot then the higher deminsions on top. This allows for there being only one Darkseid and such which makes the character more profound.

This ties into the Multiverse but all these uber omnipotent cosmic charcters that spring up becuase they are mutliversal thraets.

Originally posted by newjak86
Magic used incorrectly. Basically when used right magic is very acceptable as a power set so long as it is a defined set when it starts to become a plot device it has over stepped its boundaries.

Exactly! If the rules of "magic" were clearly defined (as they often are in well-written fantasy novels, eg, LOTR), then it can become an interesting element in the story. But too often it strikes me as deus ex machina.

Originally posted by Mindship
Exactly! If the rules of "magic" were clearly defined (as they often are in well-written fantasy novels, eg, LOTR), then it can become an interesting element in the story. But too often it strikes me as deus ex machina. It clearly is and most shown with Dr. Strange especially when he took on the the infinity gauntlet. Don't get me wrong magic as a whole should be a fundamental force but not the end all be all.
Like you said LOTR are mostly D&D where magic is very useful but is clearly defined in terms of what you can do and what you can't.

A. Secondary mutations - You already have a set of powers dammit you dont need anymore

B Stupid clone syndrome - Nate Grey , Goblin Queen , Ben riley .

C. Time Travel - Hey look it's our kid's from the future.....

D. Dumbass hypes - You can't master 137 GODDAMN martial arts !!!

Originally posted by grey fox
A. Secondary mutations - You already have a set of powers dammit you dont need anymore

B Stupid clone syndrome - Nate Grey , Goblin Queen , Ben riley .

C. Time Travel - Hey look it's our kid's from the future.....

D. Dumbass hypes - You can't master 137 GODDAMN martial arts !!! Thank you for remionding me that was something else.
Comic book notions of Martial Arts. It doesn't matter how many form you know its your ability to use the forms you do to the best of its ability. Hence why smarter people who know martial arts like DS should always trump people who know more styles like Wolverine.
Just because you know alot doesn't mean you are smart enough or effective enough to use them well.

That six issues of great story and plot end with Superman saving the day, AGAIN! I'm sorry, but can't somebody else have the spotlight?

Plot Induced siblings - Cassandra Nova and Vulcan . Need i say more.

Wonder Woman...
She can survive Superman's punches but can't take a bullet. C'mon. Spare me the "blunt impact vs sharp impact" and the "demoralizing opponents" reasons. IMO, they are weak. But since we can't have her stop deflecting bullets with her bracelets--because that is WW's signature move--then writers should have her deflect Supe's punches with her bracelets. Not only would this be more consistent, but it would also better highlight her superiority as a skilled fighter.

(Neo: "You're saying I'll be able to dodge bullets?"
Morpheus: "I'm saying, you won't have to."

The Silver Surfer...
Though today's Surfer is shiner, when Jack Kirby drew him, there was always a sense of alien, aloof, majestic power. The Surfer fretted over nothing, even when dislodged from his board. These days, it seems when he is knocked off, he drops like a girlie-man.
Like Wonder Woman, he's trapped by what he is; you can't get rid of the board. But c'mon: let him hover (Doom did it). At the least, let him keep his cool.
(And even if he flew back to his board, so what? With it, he flies faster and better.)

Originally posted by Mindship
Wonder Woman...
She can survive Superman's punches but can't take a bullet. C'mon. Spare me the "blunt impact vs sharp impact" and the "demoralizing opponents" reasons. IMO, they are weak. But since we can't have her stop deflecting bullets with her bracelets--because that is WW's signature move--then writers should have her deflect Supe's punches with her bracelets. Not only would this be more consistent, but it would also better highlight her superiority as a skilled fighter.

(Neo: "You're saying I'll be able to dodge bullets?"
Morpheus: "I'm saying, you won't have to."

The Silver Surfer...
Though today's Surfer is shiner, when Jack Kirby drew him, there was always a sense of alien, aloof, majestic power. The Surfer fretted over nothing, even when dislodged from his board. These days, it seems when he is knocked off, he drops like a girlie-man.
Like Wonder Woman, he's trapped by what he is; you can't get rid of the board. But c'mon: let him hover (Doom did it). At the least, let him keep his cool.
(And even if he flew back to his board, so what? With it, he flies faster and better.)

I'll sign to that. I've got my own little problem:

I don't like it when Magic isn't explained. Let me give an example. Dr. Strange's comics have explained every spell, given it a name, and so forth. However, other characters use spells in other comics and it gets called a plot device because it isn't explained. Then they say that Dr. Strange is a walking plot device. That's pretty bunk. Spectre is a walking plot device. Scarlet Witch is a walking plot device. Dr. Strange is a learned master of the mystic arts!

norrin, very recently, had his board destroyed. then he blew the shit out of cable, and most fans hold him accountable (though they're wrong) for cable's power loss.

Originally posted by grey fox
Plot Induced siblings - Cassandra Nova and Vulcan . Need i say more.
I'll one up you and say plot induced uber powerful siblings.

Originally posted by Rewmac
I like the powerhouse battles actually...The Hulk vs. Thing and sooo...And I just can't wait for a Juggernaut vs. Colossus comic a mini like vs. Venom was...

I would have read the Thing vs Hulk mini series if Jae Lee wasnt doing the art.

Seriously, he sucks at drawing both Hulk and Thing.

Originally posted by grey fox
A. Secondary mutations - You already have a set of powers dammit you dont need anymore

B Stupid clone syndrome - Nate Grey , Goblin Queen , Ben riley .

C. Time Travel - Hey look it's our kid's from the future.....

D. Dumbass hypes - You can't master 137 GODDAMN martial arts !!!


So true

the boyscoutism usually does it for me...dont get me wrong im not saying that supes should develop a taste for wanton killing but i fail to see how he can thwart alien invasions without taking a single life, and just fly around breaking thier equipment and shit....and the one thing i cant get is in marvel why is it that whenever somebody wants to invade(Kree,skrulls,Shiar, Namor) they always show up on avengers, FF, Xmen's doorstep? in other words in manhattan, or the outkirts of NY, isnt that been done to death

Writers covering their own asses - Sbp retcon punch.

you know whats up there too? when these characters develop a crsis of conscience and they go off on some soul searching road trip. like what hal and green arrrow, and the xmen used to do back in the day

*fresh from a big battle*

heroes: whew! that was some big battle, cool victory, too bad some serious sacrifices had to be made.

Soul searcher:*in a dark room some where* oh man, that battle really messed me up i lost a best friend, we came this close to dying and evil still almost one out, but what if we dont make next time? what if i cant do this anymore? i think i need a way to re-learn what it is to be a hero....hmmm....:ding!!: *light bulb* i know!!!! time for a self loathing, pathetic attempt at clearing my head...can somebody say road trip!

SS: oh wait better leave b4 my teammates can all gang up on me and give me that lame ass lecture how we are all familyand we are in this 2gether no matter what, so i shouldnt feel bad for what happened, and dont blame myself for dying.....oh f **** too late here they come..

lectureers: hey whats going on man? heroes dont quit... its not about falling down its getting back up......criminals are a superstitous and cowardly lot....being a hero is doing assloads of good and expected nothing in return.....we should still try to ptroect those who hate and fear us, else we'll be no better than they are...........we are all family and we are in this 2gether no matter what, so you shouldnt feel bad for what happened, and dont blame yourself for dying, so if its some time you need go ahead and take it..

Queue the one member of the team who has the hots for whoever is leaving..

One member: hey I'll come with you..... to clear my head too/protect you/console you/ take a break from super heroing...

LMAo... sadly true!

The life-affirming road trip is pretty played out. It reminds me of how back in like 1997 every chick flick had a scene where all the woman get drunk and dance around a table to a Donna Summers song or some damn thing. For some reason this was supposed to be empowering. At least so far we've been spared seeing Kang, Doctor Doom, and Magneto dancing to "It's raining men".

'2. Flying or dodging at/near light speed. Jeez! There are so many things wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.
And lastly, my "favorite"...'

This has got to be my favourite ..... the term light speed is thrown about a lot in comics, especially associated with the Flash. He now has a technique (Invented by the great Grant Morison) where he can hit an opponent at an infinite Mass. Thats sound impressive, and coherent taking special relativity into consideration, but one has to consider all the paradoxes associated. If he is at an 'near infinite mass', how is it that the planet has no gravitational problems ? How is it that the opponents atomic structure is left in tact, (it should have been reduced to subatomic particles and gamma rays). Every time he collided with an air particles he would cause an explosion capable of destroying the solar system. The list is never ending .... Writers should be more careful when using terms such as speed and infinite energy.

1. Morality Speeches, unless written by William Shakespeare or Mark Miller

2. Superheroes with underwear over their trousers.

3. Cosmic characters obsessed with energy blasts (Nothing compares to Dragonball Z when it comes to energy blasts).

4. Marvels obsession of letting the under dogs win .....

'Sentry's down with one punch !!!!!!!!!!'

'Who cares, here's spider woman and Captain Ammmerica'

5. The cosmic bullshit written by marvel .....

'Here comes another shinny character whose 1000000000000000000 ft tall and is refers to themselves in third person'

Originally posted by manjaro
the boyscoutism usually does it for me...dont get me wrong im not saying that supes should develop a taste for wanton killing but i fail to see how he can thwart alien invasions without taking a single life, and just fly around breaking thier equipment and shit....and the one thing i cant get is in marvel why is it that whenever somebody wants to invade(Kree,skrulls,Shiar, Namor) they always show up on avengers, FF, Xmen's doorstep? in other words in manhattan, or the outkirts of NY, isnt that been done to death

I would rather see Boy Scoutism than the obsession with Anti-Heroism in the 90's where every new hero was a copyoff of the Punisher, Wolverine or Batman.

The whole Dark Vibes in comics in the 90's sucked.

Darkness is good... to a certain degree!

Originally posted by Dark Shazam93
Darkness is good... to a certain degree!

Yeah once in a while but not in every god damn comic.

Originally posted by Doctor SKank
'2. Flying or dodging at/near light speed. Jeez! There are so many things wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.
And lastly, my "favorite"...'

This has got to be my favourite ..... the term light speed is thrown about a lot in comics, especially associated with the Flash. He now has a technique (Invented by the great Grant Morison) where he can hit an opponent at an infinite Mass. Thats sound impressive, and coherent taking special relativity into consideration, but one has to consider all the paradoxes associated. If he is at an 'near infinite mass', how is it that the planet has no gravitational problems ? How is it that the opponents atomic structure is left in tact, (it should have been reduced to subatomic particles and gamma rays). Every time he collided with an air particles he would cause an explosion capable of destroying the solar system. The list is never ending .... Writers should be more careful when using terms such as speed and infinite energy.

The pseudo-science surrounding the Flash is indeed irksome. I'd rather they didn't try that sort of stuff than give us half-baked science.

I don't buy the Infinite Mass Punch. If Wally really were subject to relativistic mass dilation, his body would tear inself apart long before he ever reached lightspeed. Furthermore if he were subject to relativistic affects, were he to attempt a speedblitz at greater than 90% lightspeed Wally would be the one who couldn't react fast enough. At .9c 2.3 seconds pass for the body at "rest" for every one second for the Flash. At .9999c 70.1 seconds pass to the oberver at rest for every one second that passes in the Flash's frame of reference. This would introduce all kinds of problems, not the least of which is getting-smashed-by/left-behind-by the planet Earth as it moves through its orbital curve.

The Speed Force is essentially magic. It lets him move outside the rules of spacetime physiscs, but according to some other (poorly defined) rules of its own. While it pays some lip-service to Relativity, it shields DC speedsters from any of it's actual effects. Furthurmore, it protects them from things like the impact on their joints, heat from friction, flying off the planet when they exceed escape velocity, having their faces rubbed off by their bow-wave while their GI tracks are sucked out their rear by their backdraft, and so on.

When he punches someone at superspeed, he's not hitting with the momentum of a human body at high velocity. It's essentially a speedforce force-bolt coincident with his hand. When he runs, he's certainly not propelling himself by pushing against the ground.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Yeah once in a while but not in every god damn comic. Grimm, are you on a KMC team? If not, would you like to join the Syndicate? And I agree, I often find I need a break after reading a Batman or Daredevil graphic novel, maybe to read some F4 or Superman etc...

Originally posted by Disappear
comparing skyscrapers and aircraft carriers is like comparing apples to oranges. you're neglecting the fact that, essentially, all watercraft must be bouyant enough to float. or, at the very least, able to float with very little assistance from turbines, propellers, etc. a skyscraper would sink like a stone if placed in the water, simply because it's not designed to float. so, while you're comparing sizes, it doesn't really make much sense to hold their relative weights as decent, comparable measurements.

also, it looked, to me, like namor was resisting the torque of the propeller until it snapped off. he may also have been holding the ship in place, which really only means he stopped its forward momentum after cutting off its power supply. that in itself is quite impressive, but really has little to do with the weight of the ship.




that's actually not true. most superstrong characters can move at somewhat accelerated speeds due to their overall adaption, but very few are designed to move at "superspeeds," especially not at 300 miles per hour. i went into the actual biological reasons why in another thread, but it basically comes down to two different types of muscle tissue. fast-twitch, which is used for quick, repetitive motions, and slow-twitch, which is used for overall strength. running, which is a combination of coordination and strengthened fast-twitch fibers, is not very well linked to lifting. it's true that both fibers will be strengthened to different degrees during different exercises but that does not mean superstrong should equate to superspeed. their muscularity would have to be at least one and a half again times as large to accomodate the appropriate fast-twitch fibers.

All true. My point however is that I can deal with a guy like the Hulk running and jumping as he can, but being able to tow the moon and race Flash around the world leave too much room for CIS.

Originally posted by Doctor SKank
...If he is at an 'near infinite mass'...
You've touched on another one of those things that make me go eer : "near infinite"... a near-meaningless term writers toss about like so much cheap salad.

Comics have become much more sophisticated in the last few decades...and so have their readers. Many of us seem to like less mindless fantasy and more realism, not just with social or psychological issues but also with regard to principles of physics, actually bringing the genre closer to science fiction...which, initially, is how Schuster and Siegel regarded their creation.

True... as infinite is no specific number, that truly is meaningless!

Originally posted by Dark Shazam93
Grimm, are you on a KMC team? If not, would you like to join the Syndicate? And I agree, I often find I need a break after reading a Batman or Daredevil graphic novel, maybe to read some F4 or Superman etc...



Team? Huh? Wha?

The defeats.

The most recent thing that really made my blood boil is freeze breath in *space* no less. Even my 10 yr old nephew, think its dumb.

Bendis screwing up Spideys Story line. Like Carnage, Venom,(Rhino wasn't that bad)Oh and Siver Sables arc was crap!...
I'n done. But over all bendis is a good storyboard writer, I just hated the Carnage and siver sable arcs

Just bendis in general . For more bendis bashing look here

Random Brainiac. It kinda pissed me off he was seemingly randomly thrown into JLU.

Originally posted by grey fox
Just bendis in general . For more bendis bashing look here http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox6/pics/wolvie_rape.jpg

wtf?? lol thats wierd... but funny lol you need to make a sig out of that man!

Originally posted by grey fox
Just bendis in general . For more bendis bashing look here

I like Bendis' repetition-style dialogue; it reminds me most of the work of David Mamet, playwright & film director with a screenplay credits list as long as your arm. Early films like The Verdict, his own plays made into films ( Glengarry Glen Ross, Oleanna), writing films like Wag The Dog & Hannibal. The repition style mixed with profanity; watch any of the films and you will think Bendis. Mamet is Jewish too, if that means anything.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
The pseudo-science surrounding the Flash is indeed irksome. I'd rather they didn't try that sort of stuff than give us half-baked science.

I don't buy the Infinite Mass Punch. If Wally really were subject to relativistic mass dilation, his body would tear inself apart long before he ever reached lightspeed. Furthermore if he were subject to relativistic affects, were he to attempt a speedblitz at greater than 90% lightspeed Wally would be the one who couldn't react fast enough. At .9c 2.3 seconds pass for the body at "rest" for every one second for the Flash. At .9999c 70.1 seconds pass to the oberver at rest for every one second that passes in the Flash's frame of reference. This would introduce all kinds of problems, not the least of which is getting-smashed-by/left-behind-by the planet Earth as it moves through its orbital curve.

The Speed Force is essentially magic. It lets him move outside the rules of spacetime physiscs, but according to some other (poorly defined) rules of its own. While it pays some lip-service to Relativity, it shields DC speedsters from any of it's actual effects. Furthurmore, it protects them from things like the impact on their joints, heat from friction, flying off the planet when they exceed escape velocity, having their faces rubbed off by their bow-wave while their GI tracks are sucked out their rear by their backdraft, and so on.

When he punches someone at superspeed, he's not hitting with the momentum of a human body at high velocity. It's essentially a speedforce force-bolt coincident with his hand. When he runs, he's certainly not propelling himself by pushing against the ground.


dude this is DC we are talking about after all you know, when it comes to things like these its best not to over think it.....when in doubt just chalk it up to magic and slooowly push away from the table, and make a secret pact never to mention it again...but all in all tho IMP is a cool trick to pull out of ye old anus, you must admit

Originally posted by Mindship
You've touched on another one of those things that make me go eer : "near infinite"... a near-meaningless term writers toss about like so much cheap salad.

Comics have become much more sophisticated in the last few decades...and so have their readers. Many of us seem to like less mindless fantasy and more realism, not just with social or psychological issues but also with regard to principles of physics, actually bringing the genre closer to science fiction...which, initially, is how Schuster and Siegel regarded their creation.

Its a term that is thrown around marvel, alot more than D.C.
D.C. try harder at quantifying their characters power limits, by comparison to real life scenarios.

E.G. 'Superman could spin mountains on his finger tips' (Batman WW3 JLA arc)

instead of 'Superman has near limitless strength'.

The problem with the blase attitude surrounding terms such as 'near infinite' is that writers don't really understand the concept of infinity.

Infinity analytically means 'endless'. Anything that has an end is not endless. Therefore its an oxymoron to quantify something as 'near limitless' as its impossible to be nearly limitless. What ever quantity you associate, an infinite is always infinitely bigger. Its like saying that a dent in the ground is 'nearly a hole'. Its either a hole or not a hole.

You've read the science of super heroes haven't you ???????????

There's this great website with some scientist trying to explain all super powers with quantum field theory (I'll post the details later). He does however slate that book for its total lack of imagination.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
You've read the science of super heroes haven't you ???????????

There's this great website with some scientist trying to explain all super powers with quantum field theory (I'll post the details later). He does however slate that book for its total lack of imagination.

Haven't read either the book or the website, but I have a feeling as to how the explanations work based on my own ideas I've been kicking around for many years.

Originally posted by Validus
Jobber Auras Ditto

Sacrificing the accomplishments of one character to up the ante on the other's mythos, like Enemy of the State.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox6/pics/wolvie_rape.jpg



...holy shit. Didn't know that would happen.

Ahhh...so that's why sometimes the field streeeeeeetches out horizontally (I thought it was just me). Man, that is almost as annoying as those screwed-up "Go to first unread post" links.



(although, gotta admit, that one ^ was funny)

The cliche that, no matter how powerful a character could be, when he/she is fighting in their own book, they MUST STUGGLE, GET PUMMELED, BEFORE FINALLY RISING IN THE END. The same fight happens in a different book, they don't struggle as much.

Dumb ass revivals

Apocalypse : I HAVE RETURNED !!!!!

X-Men : *All look at cable*

Cable : Yup , i brought back the bastard who i hate with all my fiber and being , the guy who infected me with a virus which will slowly turn me into metal , the man whom (my destiny decree's) I shall kill.

Cyclops : You know Nathan , sometimes i wonder if sending you into the future ****ed you up in more way's then one

Cable *Giving Cyclops the the finger* Screw you pop.

LOL, and I agree so much, DC!