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Well I had to do it. Which one did you guys like better?

Personaly I think Marv Wolfman and George Perez got served

("My heart, my achy breaky heart"----South Park reference

It was good man, good ending and everthing.


Please just compare the stories, and not artwork. That would be unfair.

Crisis on Infinite Earths no doubt. That one was actually a Crisis, even after reading IC I don't feel like it was a true crisis.

Infinite Crisis.

COIE was great, but soooooo confusing and long. I just like how (decently) organized IC was.

Infinite Crisis was good, and a good follow up to COIE.

But it doesn't compare.

Geoff Johns is great but he's no Marv Wolfman.

The original crisis had true, changing impact on the Universe. This time, the decks chairs were moved around a bit is all, and any change we've seen is temporary, to be sure.

I voted Marvel story just to be a goof. I thought that both were good stories, but I had to read over Crisis three times to get it all.

Crisis of Infinite Earths is better.

The only improtant thing to me was the death of Kal-L.

Only Infinite crisis carried this element so my vote goes to IC.

Really hard to choose either one. I'm gonna say Infinite Crisis for now because we haven't fully felt the aftermath of the events. Superboy dies and SBP is just psychotic villain. Will there be a third Superboy? Let us wait till 52.

The only moments where IC felt epic to me were when it was riffing on elements from CIE.

I would probably enjoy Crisis on infinite earths a lot better if I had read all of silver age DC.
Everything would make more sense, plus I think it would have a bigger imapact on me as well.

Crisis On Infinite Earths wasn't actually all that good, in my opinion. Infinite Crisis all the way.

(All the importance and true, changing impact isn't worth squat if the comic itself isn't good, and the Anti-Monitor wasn't a very interesting bad-guy)

Both.
I wish Infinite Crisis was 12 issues though.

Originally posted by Juntai
Both.
I wish Infinite Crisis was 12 issues though.
Or at least 8. Would have loved to see the Metropolis fight in more detail, especially Supes & Supes Vs DD.

Marvel's Big crossovers kill DC's.

Originally posted by King KAM
Marvel's Big crossovers kill DC's.
Very funny.

Originally posted by Validus
Very funny. its the truth, look at the sales....look at the threads....the proof is in the pudding my child...the proof is in the pudding...

Civil War in one issue has already outdone IC. Sorry, but Infinite Crisis was a lot of hype. It was a good story and all, but not really that big of a deal. It seemed like one big advertisement for Superboy Prime.

Originally posted by King KAM
its the truth, look at the sales....look at the threads....the proof is in the pudding my child...the proof is in the pudding...
Because House of Wolverine was so great, right? The last good mega crossover from Marvel was The Infinity Gauntlet and the original Crisis poops on that.

Sales mean squat. I can name a ton of things that do well financially but still suck.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
Civil War in one issue has already outdone IC. Sorry, but Infinite Crisis was a lot of hype. It was a good story and all, but not really that big of a deal. It seemed like one big advertisement for Superboy Prime.



Originally posted by Validus
Because House of Wolverine was so great, right? The last good mega crossover from Marvel was The Infinity Gauntlet and the original Crisis poops on that.

Sales mean squat. I can name a ton of things that do well financially but still suck.

And I would disagree.

Originally posted by Validus
Because House of Wolverine was so great, right? The last good mega crossover from Marvel was The Infinity Gauntlet and the original Crisis poops on that.

Sales mean squat. I can name a ton of things that do well financially but still suck. infinity gauntlet.....yeah...thats the last great marvel crossover....


what a schmuck

Originally posted by King KAM
infinity gauntlet.....yeah...thats the last great marvel crossover....


what a schmuck
Likewise.

Name something that was good.

House of M? Issues 2-5 are Wolverine wandering about NYC and you can say IC was a SBP ad? What a joke.

Onslaught? Heroes Reborn? Infinity Crusade?

Marvel has two good crossovers in Secret Wars II and Infinity Gauntlet.

Originally posted by Validus
Likewise.

Name something that was good.

House of M? Issues 2-5 are Wolverine wandering about NYC and you can say IC was a SBP ad? What a joke.

Onslaught? Heroes Reborn? Infinity Crusade?

Marvel has two good crossovers in Secret Wars II and Infinity Gauntlet. onslaught was better than anything DC has produced, but then so was the AOA, every Infinity thats come out, Dissasembeled, and The End.

all of them are talked about on the forums quite often...yet DC is bashed...but hey im talking to a DC fanboy so....whatever.



And no im not for Marvel, Im actually neutral, DC has just been gettinf out-written lately.

Originally posted by Validus
Likewise.

Name something that was good.

House of M? Issues 2-5 are Wolverine wandering about NYC and you can say IC was a SBP ad? What a joke.

Onslaught? Heroes Reborn? Infinity Crusade?

Marvel has two good crossovers in Secret Wars II and Infinity Gauntlet.

Onslaught was pretty good. Heroes Reborn's story would have been better if the art wasn't so horrible. Liefeld

To be honest, Annihilation and Civil War have been amazing so far, and very well written. Also, Marvel has the Ultimates that are great as well. House of M could've been better.

Originally posted by King KAM
onslaught was better than anything DC has produced, but then so was the AOA, every Infinity thats come out, Dissasembeled, and The End.

all of them are talked about on the forums quite often...yet DC is bashed...but hey im talking to a DC fanboy so....whatever.



And no im not for Marvel, Im actually neutral, DC has just been gettinf out-written lately.
Ok, now that you think Onslaught is better than anything from DC I know not to take you seriously.

Threads? The IC #7 thread has more posts than the Civil War thread and has been up for less time. What's currently a plague on the Vs forum? Superboy Prime threads. The Annihilation threads struggle to hit 2 pages. Most people here seem rather excited for 52. That says a lot considering this forum is heavily Marvel biased.

As for being DC fanboy? I probably buy more Marvel comics than half the self proclaimed Marvel zombies on this forum. Whatever.

Well, here's the thing, Validus: What company is issuing more comics than the other with their event? DC. You've got everything that ties in with IC, 52, then OYL. That's a LOT of comics, and plenty to discuss. People aren't noticing Annihilation, and Civil War has been out for a day.

The IC tie ins have been over since March. I don't think it's really fair to say OYL is a tie in since all of them are completely self contained in their own books.

DC is running Infinite Crisis followed by 52 and nothing else. Marvel is running Annihilation, Civil War and Planet Hulk all at the same time and then this fall theres the Heroes Reborn thing plus the Ultimate Power crossover.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
Well, here's the thing, Validus: What company is issuing more comics than the other with their event? DC. You've got everything that ties in with IC, 52, then OYL. That's a LOT of comics, and plenty to discuss. People aren't noticing Annihilation, and Civil War has been out for a day. Doesn't matter, the threads for the Crisis started the moment the Countdown began, and there's several of them over 10 pages already. It's quite impressive the crowd it's reached, I'll have to give that to Validus. It's turned a lot of former DC heads back that way and gathered themselves up a lot of fans, all the guys I work with are Marvel fans, and nearly all of them that are STILL collecting, picked up the Crisis, and are moving on with one or two character ongoings they liked, or All Star titles.

For example about what Validus was saying though...

The Infinite Crisis 1 thread, just one book, over 200 replies, and nearly 4000 views. Impressive on a site heavy with Marvel fans.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=371842&highlight=Crisis

Originally posted by Dayscribe
Well, here's the thing, Validus: What company is issuing more comics than the other with their event? DC. You've got everything that ties in with IC, 52, then OYL. That's a LOT of comics, and plenty to discuss. People aren't noticing Annihilation, and Civil War has been out for a day. Yep, 52 is just the cleanup, not part of the Crisis. The Crisis ended at issue 7.

Originally posted by King KAM
its the truth, look at the sales....look at the threads....the proof is in the pudding my child...the proof is in the pudding...

What sales? Infinite crisis is #1 nearly every month that it's been out.

The top 10 in march were half and half Marvel/DC.

Marvel's cross-overs do tend to suck especially the ones with the same
"Thanos is God" Story.........

Edit:"suck" is too harsh of a word since I actually enjoy them a little but they're still very repetitive..........

I see 52 as an IC tie in because it's the aftermath, just like OYL is. Still though, there is a LOT to talk about with the entire span of things, starting at the countdown and ending with 52.

The big problem is that nobody is noticing that Marvel has the good stuff. You just have to look for it. The good Spider-Man stories haven't came along for a while, and X-Men is just boring nowadays. New Avengers could be better as well. However, you've got Squadron Supreme, the Ultimates, Cable and Deadpool, and many more lesser known comics that are flat out great. However, I don't see how this is a Marvel biased forum though. I see more DC threads here than anywhere else.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
I see 52 as an IC tie in because it's the aftermath, just like OYL is. Still though, there is a LOT to talk about with the entire span of things, starting at the countdown and ending with 52.

The big problem is that nobody is noticing that Marvel has the good stuff. You just have to look for it. The good Spider-Man stories haven't came along for a while, and X-Men is just boring nowadays. New Avengers could be better as well. However, you've got Squadron Supreme, the Ultimates, Cable and Deadpool, and many more lesser known comics that are flat out great. However, I don't see how this is a Marvel biased forum though. I see more DC threads here than anywhere else.
It's not part of the Crisis though, it's just the "new world" and the readers having to learn about it mostly... if you consider 52 part of Crisis, pretty much every issue of every comic in DC from here on out is part of Crisis. It's just the ongoing story, the crisis is ended. The bad guys defeated.


When you see people giving Sentry the nod at beating Spectre, and Hulk having 105 votes against Superman, and other polls and stuff... it's pretty obvious... you really must not be reading the same forum.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's not part of the Crisis though, it's just the "new world" and the readers having to learn about it mostly... if you consider 52 part of Crisis, pretty much every issue of every comic in DC from here on out is part of Crisis. It's just the ongoing story, the crisis is ended. The bad guys defeated.


When you see people giving Sentry the nod at beating Spectre, and Hulk having 105 votes against Superman, and other polls and stuff... it's pretty obvious... you really must not be reading the same forum.

Friend of mine once told me that hostility over nothing is the sign of a complete tool. You getting pissed at someone over the internet for them calling it the way they see it doesn't say much for your character.

So I see 52 as a tie in to the direct aftereffect. So what? That's my opinion. Not changin it. I also came on here and saw 30+ threads about DC characters and comics. That would lead me to believe 2 things:
DC Biased forums
Outspoken DC fans


Back on topic: I will say that IC as a whole was pretty good, but by no means what I expected. The ending was really, really lackluster. It all came down to one big galactic tantrum, then who saves the day? Superman. It all ends up with Superman winning, again. To be honest, it all ended up with the cliche'. Huge dissapointment.

Originally posted by Validus
Because House of Wolverine was so great, right? The last good mega crossover from Marvel was The Infinity Gauntlet and the original Crisis poops on that.

Sales mean squat. I can name a ton of things that do well financially but still suck.

Like the star wars Prequels

on the whole, coie certainly felt more epic. i mean, hard to compete with the endings of countless universes and a story that rewrites CREATION!! but there were plenty of disappointments in coie. IC i thought should have been longer, but i liked the character development and the lead up MUCH better than coie. the build up to IC was just spectacular imo. villains united, omac, identity crisis. these were GREAT stories, and built up a great sense of 'i can't wait for IC!!!'

i view the 2 stories as very different -- coie revolved around a crisis in the dcu, while IC revolved around a crisis of CHARACTERS. of course looking at it that way, it's easy to understand why coie felt more epic, but i like the way most characters were handled in IC better than coie.

both had some great and not so great moments, both were at times hard to follow for their complexities and both seemed to have been a little too crammed with info. i think BOTH delivered many more positives though, than negatives and for me all i can really say is i liked the 'epic feel' of coie, but i liked the 'character crisis' of IC.

maybe a cop out, but that's how's i see it.

Originally posted by King KAM
onslaught was better than anything DC has produced, but then so was the AOA, every Infinity thats come out, Dissasembeled, and The End.

all of them are talked about on the forums quite often...yet DC is bashed...but hey im talking to a DC fanboy so....whatever.



And no im not for Marvel, Im actually neutral, DC has just been gettinf out-written lately.

You do realize this the most biased marvel forum (imho) next to the Bendis forums

Of course not alot of people talk about DC here cause mots of you are all Freeaking Marvel Fanboys

and you're not a DC fanboy? You seem to enjoy insulting Marvel fans a bit too much.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
and you're not a DC fanboy? You seem to enjoy insulting Marvel fans a bit too much.



anyways back on topic in My opinion no crossover will ever top COIE .

Wolfman wrote such a great story
and Perez's artwork was amazing

So while Johns and Jimenez did a great job I don't think they did as well as Wolfman/ Perez. But thats my opinion

Guess I'm right.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
and you're not a DC fanboy? You seem to enjoy insulting Marvel fans a bit too much.

and you care why?

Originally posted by leonidas
on the whole, coie certainly felt more epic. i mean, hard to compete with the endings of countless universes and a story that rewrites CREATION!! but there were plenty of disappointments in coie. IC i thought should have been longer, but i liked the character development and the lead up MUCH better than coie. the build up to IC was just spectacular imo. villains united, omac, identity crisis. these were GREAT stories, and built up a great sense of 'i can't wait for IC!!!'

i view the 2 stories as very different -- coie revolved around a crisis in the dcu, while IC revolved around a crisis of CHARACTERS. of course looking at it that way, it's easy to understand why coie felt more epic, but i like the way most characters were handled in IC better than coie.

both had some great and not so great moments, both were at times hard to follow for their complexities and both seemed to have been a little too crammed with info. i think BOTH delivered many more positives though, than negatives and for me all i can really say is i liked the 'epic feel' of coie, but i liked the 'character crisis' of IC.

maybe a cop out, but that's how's i see it.

Imagine if either of those were adapted into a series of movies or a mini series.

Talk about a nightmare for the costume department

Originally posted by dman2008
and you care why?

Because people could just as easily call you a DC fanboy, which is becoming more evident by the moment. To be honest, if you don't like the fact that these forums are Marvel biased, which I'm still not sure of, then why don't you find a different forum?

I just started reading COIE again...

http://www.monitorduty.com/mdarchives/CsyndicateDeath.jpg

Gotta admit...that's a pretty damn sweet way to kick off a series.

But ever since then it's been boring and weird so I lost interest lol.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
Because people could just as easily call you a DC fanboy, which is becoming more evident by the moment. To be honest, if you don't like the fact that these forums are Marvel biased, which I'm still not sure of, then why don't you find a different forum?

because I don't want to ?
and there are still a few great posters here

and anyways why do you care If I stay here or not

Originally posted by dman2008
because I don't want to ?
and there are still a few great posters here

and anyways why do you care If I stay here or not

Aside from the fact that you're ignorant to comics outside of DC, and the fact that you have some sort of latent hostility toward Marvel fans, there's not much of a reason. Saying that NOTHING is topping Crisis on Infinite Earths is very ignorant. There's plenty of normal storylines out there that people prefer over COIE, but saying it's the best is just a fanboyism. It's apparent that you think so because it's a DC series. Prety lame. Truth be known, it's the best DC event, but in overall comicdom, nope.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
Aside from the fact that you're ignorant to comics outside of DC, and the fact that you have some sort of latent hostility toward Marvel fans, there's not much of a reason. Saying that NOTHING is topping Crisis on Infinite Earths is very ignorant. There's plenty of normal storylines out there that people prefer over COIE, but saying it's the best is just a fanboyism. It's apparent that you think so because it's a DC series. Prety lame. Truth be known, it's the best DC event, but in overall comicdom, nope.

...it's his opinion. Leave him to it.

And yeah, KMC's Marvel-bias. That's no secret...it's been that way for a while. And certain people are more into one company than the other. Doesn't mean there isn't still intelligent discussion, nor does it mean you have to let it be a hang-up for you.

Here's my question. Why do a bunch of people have the same signature from the worst Final Fantasy game ever?

Originally posted by Dayscribe
Here's my question. Why do a bunch of people have the same signature from the worst Final Fantasy game ever?

i think they are doing it to annoy one of the sig forum moderators I could be wrong though

Signature is good. The game sucked.

When it comes to IC & HOM i think that both series could have been better. I think the writer's qot ahead of themselves story suffered. The way they pan out it's like the writer turned both IC & HOM from a headliner event into a setup storyline. Not that this is initially horrible it is qood writinq to qive yourself a follow up, but the writinq qot lazy, no risk taken so maximum effect is not reached, i.e not havinq a all the fiqhts in metropolis that could have been or in HOM havinq too much of the story centered around wolverine & not other character's like caqe or hawkman who came back from the dead or panther countless other people even in xmen that would have been qreat. However unlike IC HOM had a much better endinq in the perspective books. Not talkin about aftermath but actual series endinq for HOM better. Have no idea how qood aftermath for IC can be crap or cool but if you compare "No more mutants" to "I'll be back" the former wow the latter about every supervillain ever has said & done that nothin remarkable.

I still dont truely understand COIE.

Seriously even after it was summerized in IC.

It makes no sense!

Originally posted by Grimm22
I still dont truely understand COIE.

Seriously even after it was summerized in IC.

It makes no sense!

It's not that hard to figure out. Read it again - in particular issue #7, "Beyond The Silent Night", which won awards for Best Story that year.

i don't think it would have hurt of IC was 2 or 3 issues longer.

But then again 52 is a straight extension of that.

and its soooooooo good droolio

Originally posted by King KAM
onslaught was better than anything DC has produced

what was onsluaght?

The worst event in comics history...but better than anything DC has produced apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onslaught_%28comics%29

I loved Infinite Crisis, but compared to what has happened in Civil war so far, it pales in comparison. Although that might be the Marvel Fanboy side of me saying that

Plus Steve Mcniven's art for Civil War has been brilliant so far, as has the storyline, which is quite uncommon for Marvel crossovers. The last Marvel crossover I read that I enjoyed as much as this was either the original Secret Wars or JLA/Avengers

True dat. CW's better....especially since Marvel's last event (HoM) sucked the big one.

Anyway, I voted for the Original Crisis. Was it confusing as hell? Sure. But they had so much BS to clean up in the DC multiverse that it had to be that complex to work.

But once you read it a second time, a lot comes into focus...it really was an insanely massive acheivement. IC, by comparison, is small potatoes...not to mention nothing more than an extended Superman/Superboy/Superboy-Prime/Super-insert-name story arc with a few guest appearences. "Crisis In The Super-Family" would have been a more appropriate name.

The original Crisis is one of the most overated stories i've ever read ..... Its doesn't compare to the new Crisis, or the likes of Kingdomcome and the Dark Knight returns.

I think if I had read silver age stuff like 1978-1985, and was 15 years old or something instead of like 5 at the time it came out. I would have probably gotten more out of it.

Originally posted by willRules
I loved Infinite Crisis, but compared to what has happened in Civil war so far, it pales in comparison. Although that might be the Marvel Fanboy side of me saying that

Plus Steve Mcniven's art for Civil War has been brilliant so far, as has the storyline, which is quite uncommon for Marvel crossovers. The last Marvel crossover I read that I enjoyed as much as this was either the original Secret Wars or JLA/Avengers
It is not your Marvel Fanboy logic, it is the truth. Civil War is far more interesting. I love both DC and Marvel, but always hated how DC revolves around Superman. Marvel has their popular characters but not one of them has everything revolve around them not even Wolvering or Spider-Man. AT least Infinite Crisis had 2 Superman related characters killed (Superman Earth 2 & Superboy).

actually originally NW was supposed to die. but both companies have its share of bad crossovers. IC was magnificent in the beginning if only they had like had SBP become AM or something it would have been a great comics.

Originally posted by Validus
Likewise.

Name something that was good.

House of M? Issues 2-5 are Wolverine wandering about NYC and you can say IC was a SBP ad? What a joke.

Onslaught? Heroes Reborn? Infinity Crusade?

Marvel has two good crossovers in Secret Wars II and Infinity Gauntlet.

Galactic Storm was pretty good ...

Originally posted by King KAM


And no im not for Marvel, Im actually neutral, DC has just been gettinf out-written lately.

Out written ??????? With the exception of Civil War and Astonoshing, name a Marvel title that is 'Out Writing' D.C. at the moment ?

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Out written ??????? With the exception of Civil War and Astonoshing, name a Marvel title that is 'Out Writing' D.C. at the moment ?

Ultimates 2

Ultimate FF

Ultimate Spidey

Of course DC also has amazing books too...

All Star Supes

Teen Titans

Detective Comics

ect...

Originally posted by Validus
Likewise.

Name something that was good.

House of M? Issues 2-5 are Wolverine wandering about NYC and you can say IC was a SBP ad? What a joke.

Onslaught? Heroes Reborn? Infinity Crusade?

Marvel has two good crossovers in Secret Wars II and Infinity Gauntlet.

Yeah Marvel usually has crappy crossovers.

However, Secret Wars II was awful

Secret Wars I was suberb

Originally posted by Grimm22
Ultimates 2

Ultimate FF

Ultimate Spidey

Of course DC also has amazing books too...

All Star Supes

Teen Titans

Detective Comics

ect...

UFF and Ult Spidey are alright, but they are not any where near as good as G.L. Corps or 52, The Crisis (B4 it finished), JSA (b4 it finished), the recent Up Up and away Supes story, All Star Supes etc ....

No, Millar's UFF was among the top books out there easily. Its been amazing ever since he started his run and it ended brilliantly. Probably the best Fantastic Four run in a long time.

Ult Spidey has been average for a long time but looks to be picking up again. Would agree that it doesn't qualify as amazing.

And some DC's best books come from Vertigo. Y: Last Man, Ex Machina, and Fables blow away most of main contuinity DC's best work.