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The ultimate match up. Probably the two best saber duelers in the PT era. Can Windu's vaapad and shatterpoint ability overcome Dooku's one handed Makashi.

This has been done before. Dooku has a slight edge over him. But if Mace used to much of the dark side they would be completely equal. But basically it is far to close to draw an accurate conclusion.

However I would like to state that I think Dooku would wtf pwn him but other KMC members tend to disagree with me.

If he would be able to 'wtf pwn' him, why didn't he in there duel in the comic obsession.

Because the writer tends to disagree with me as well!

lol

Dooku=Mace if anything Ox, so don't try to make shit up.

tdtd you have a serious attitude problem and if you cannot calm down, please leave my thread. You are getting really annoying.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
The ultimate match up. Probably the two best saber duelers in the PT era. Can Windu's vaapad and shatterpoint ability overcome Dooku's one handed Makashi.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2969/dookuowned5lv.jpg

LMFAO. That was hilarious.

....dude...mere words are not enough

Fox, thank you for your input but I assure you I'm just fine.

dooku takes it. hes 2nd only to yoda, hes beaten mace before, his style is saber to saber, he knows how good mace is and wont underestimate him.

no.....Windu has shatterpoint AND Vaapad. Dooku's only advantage is his Sith Lightening, which Windu EASILY blocked. Take in to account that Mace is probably 2-3 times stronger than Dooku and Dooku gets PWND.

Who's Mave Windu? Is that Mace's elderly mother? If so, she wins.

This has been done like... twenty times. In Obsession they fight and Dooku runs away. Now, they were pretty even but it seems to be similar to how Dooku ran from Yoda in AOTC.

In Dark Rendezvous (30 months after AOTC) Yoda says Mace and Yoda are equal. starwars.com says Mace is on par with Yoda and everyone except Rampant ox saw Yoda beating Dooku in AOTC. Lucas says "Only Mace and Yoda can hang with the Emperor in a lightsaber duel."

So there we have one source saying their equal, and two which put Mace>Dooku. The Obsession comic is debatable but no one except
Rampant ox can deny how close it was.


Oh, btw, Rampant ox:

http://www.gabor-nagy.com/pwned.jpg

Originally posted by Janus Marius
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2969/dookuowned5lv.jpg

WTF IS THAT JANUS!!! YOU'VE TAKEN IT TO FAR THIS TIME!!!

However that comment about Mave Windu was funny.hysterical

Originally posted by Rampant ox
WTF IS THAT JANUS!!! YOU'VE TAKEN IT TO FAR THIS TIME!!!

However that comment about Mave Windu was funny.hysterical

Originally posted by Janus Marius
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2969/dookuowned5lv.jpg

Either way,Rampant,Dooku still gets
http://www.gabor-nagy.com/pwned.jpg

Uh, isn't Dooku regarded as Mace's superior in Shatterpoint? Dooku did put up a good fight against Yoda twice.

But Anakin beat him. Regardless, I say he takes Mace by a hair.

Originally posted by Razielim
Uh, isn't Dooku regarded as Mace's superior in Shatterpoint? Dooku did put up a good fight against Yoda twice.

But Anakin beat him. Regardless, I say he takes Mace by a hair. Uh,no.That was 3 years before ROTS was it not?Mace DEFINATELY learned some new tricks over this course,and in DR,Mace is regarded as Yoda's equal,Yoda beat out Dooku,and if Mace is the same as Yoda, then Mace would sure as hell beat out Dooku(why do you think he ran in Obsession?Cause he knew Mace would beat him.)

Many things wrong with that post.

Uh,no.That was 3 years bfore ROTS was it not?

Nope. 2.3 years. But still, its possible that they BOTH learned some nifty new techniques.

Mace DEFINATELY learned some new tricks over this course,andin DR,Mace is regarded as Yoda's equal,

Nope. Never. Mace himself admits inferioty. The closest thing to your point is this quote "Perhaps only Mace Windu would be his (Dooku's) equal on equal ground." Equal ground, referring to the depth of the Dark Side in Vjun. Nothing really mentioned specifically Yoda = Mace.

Yoda beat out Dooku,and if Mace is the same as Yoda

Indeed he did. But Dooku still met him, blade for blade.

then Mace would sure as hell beat Dooku.

Nope.

True.

Then how come Dooku ran away form Mace in Obsession?Becuase he knew he'd lose.


Yeah and ran like a coward cause Yoda had him beat.
Yes,if Anakin(who isn't even at his full potential)can beat old man Dooku,and Anakin isn't even as powerful as Mace during ROTS(if he was at full potential then yes)then Mace can sure as hell beat him(Dooku was also going all out in that duel despite Rampant Ox's wishes it came straight form Gl and novel),Mace knows plenty about Darkside moves aswell,what do you think he did to Greivous(Force Crush from what Ive read is even darker and more pwerful than Force Lightning),and to make him cough?And Mace is also regarded as THE best saber duelist in the Order save Yoda.

Many things are wrong with your post aswell.

Then how come Dooku ran away form Mace in Obsession?Becuase he knew he'd lose.

He didn't. Mace was tossed off a cliff. The fight was long over when Dooku walked off.

Yes,if Anakin(who isn't even at his full potential)can beat old man Dooku,and Anakin isn't even as powerful as Mace during ROTS(if he was at full potential then yes)then Mace can sure as hell beat him(Dooku was also going all out in that duel despite Rampant Ox's wishes it came straight form Gl and novel),

Alright. If we're following Anakin > Dooku , prove to me Mace > Anakin. Statements need backing up, you now.

Mace knows plenty about Darkside moves aswell,what do you think he did to Greivous(Force Crush from what Ive read is even darker and more pwerful than Force Lightning),and to make him cough?And Mace is also regarded as THE best saber duelist in the Order save Yoda.

Uh, he uses one Dark Side move. Never mind Dooku knows that and many other. Plus 70 years worth of lightside moves.

Of course Mace is. Dooku left the Order and became a Sith Lord. You usually aren't counted among the Jedi when that occurs.

And we do know that Dooku put Mace on his ass before. We don't know if Mace has done the opposite.

Perhaps.
Your statements need backing up.And like I said,Mace was one of the best duelists in the Order,it was proved in a Mace VS Anakin thread here that Anakin wouldve been pwned.

Yeah,and those clearly didn't help him in his fight with Yoda.

True

Check your sources,genius.That was BEFORE Mace even invented Vaapad,therefore it has no merit.

I'd like proof it was before Mace invented Vaapad with Sora

Your statements need backing up.And like I said,Mace was one of the best duelists in the Order,it was proved in a Mace VS Anakin thread here that Anakin wouldve been pwned.

What does this have to do with anything? You're the one who made the initial statement "Mace > Anakin". Great. Now prove it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'd like proof it was before Mace invented Vaapad with Sora And I'd like proof your man Sids is all you claim him to be.

Originally posted by Razielim
Your statements need backing up.And like I said,Mace was one of the best duelists in the Order,it was proved in a Mace VS Anakin thread here that Anakin wouldve been pwned.

What does this have to do with anything? You're the one who made the initial statement "Mace > Anakin". Great. Now prove it. No way,YOU search for it,I'm not digging all the way back,I'm tired enough as it is,it has all the prooff you want.

Irrelevant misdirection, pal. Proof Dooku defeated Mace before Mace discovered Vaapad

I guess your statement has no merit then. You say something, just be prepared to back it up =D

Originally posted by Mysterious Man
And I'd like proof your man Sids is all you claim him to be.

Originally posted by Razielim
I guess your statement has no merit then. You say something, just be prepared to back it up =D Neither does yours,n00b.Your just like Rampant,I want proof that your manDooku is as great as you say,considering he was WTF pwned by a Knight says enough,if Mace was able to hold his own against a guy more powerful than Dooku(Sids),then Dooku should be easy for him.

What the hell is with this misdirection? Sidious is not an issue here, Mace is. Back up your statement or shut up

Now you're just plain resorting to insults, aggression and idiocy.

"Not worth my time." - Mace Windu.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What the hell is with this misdirection? Sidious is not an issue here, Mace is. Back up your statement or shut up How about you shut up and read Shatterpoint,it says all you nead to know about Vaapad an when and how it was created,and read the NEC(besides the part about Sids be "Ub3r P0w3rful",it also says how Mace made Vaapad and how he was defeated by Dooku in a sparring match prior to it's creation.


Razielium: Same above^,and how old was Anakin when he defeated Dooku?23 giv or take a month?How old is Mace?50?Andd up how much experience Mace has to Anakin.Anakin runs head long into battle without even thinking about a plan and is reckless and is very emotional,he lets his emotions control him(which is a weakness in itself) when he should be controlling them.Mace always keeps his emotions in check,you didn't see him fight recklessly in his fight against Sids(who is more powerful than Dooku BTW),how do you think a fight between Anakin and Mace would work out?Anakin would LOSE because he was to emotional,letting yourself get like that makes you reckless,he would lose because of his EMOTIONS.

"Not worth my time." becuase you don't see whats right infront of you.If Anakin(a boy who has less experience then Mace and lets his emotions control him,the only thing keeping him from making him acheive full potential and is also a weakness) can beat Dooku,then what makes you think Mace(a man who controls his emotions,has more experience than Anakin) can't?

Which...is of course the only time they ever fought. Page number, please?

pwned again

Td, you seem to have a very strange obsession with me, considered seeing someone about it?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Which...is of course the only time they ever fought. Page number, please? I'm not looking through a ton of SW books just to answer one question.Find it yourself.

' a ton?' You said the NEC. Flip to the back, find 'Mace Windu' or 'Dooku' or 'Vaapad' and match up the pages. The burden of proof is on you

Same above^,and how old was Anakin when he defeated Dooku?23 giv or take a month?How old is Mace?50?Andd up how much experience Mace has to Anakin.Anakin runs head long into battle without even thinking about a plan and is reckless and is very emotional,he lets his emotions control him(which is a weakness in itself) when he should be controlling them.Mace always keeps his emotions in check,you didn't see him fight recklessly in his fight against Sids(who is more powerful than Dooku BTW),how do you think a fight between Anakin and Mace would work out?Anakin would LOSE because he was to emotional,letting yourself get like that makes you reckless,he would lose because of his EMOTIONS.

Your whole argument is moot because:

- Anakin beat Dooku, someone with far more knowledge, experience and years than either of them. Palpatine and Dooku went toe-to-toe with someone 10x his age. Kun was in his thirties when he demolished Vodo. Age and experience =/= Power in some cases.

- Anakin isn't an idiot in RotS. He acts with complete rationale during the fight with Dooku. He acts stupid at the end, given his emotional distress (due to Padme) which will be absent in this hypothetical fight.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2969/dookuowned5lv.jpg

Originally posted by Razielim
Same above^,and how old was Anakin when he defeated Dooku?23 giv or take a month?How old is Mace?50?Andd up how much experience Mace has to Anakin.Anakin runs head long into battle without even thinking about a plan and is reckless and is very emotional,he lets his emotions control him(which is a weakness in itself) when he should be controlling them.Mace always keeps his emotions in check,you didn't see him fight recklessly in his fight against Sids(who is more powerful than Dooku BTW),how do you think a fight between Anakin and Mace would work out?Anakin would LOSE because he was to emotional,letting yourself get like that makes you reckless,he would lose because of his EMOTIONS.

Your whole argument is moot because:

- Anakin beat Dooku, someone with far more knowledge, experience and years than either of them. Palpatine and Dooku went toe-to-toe with someone 10x his age. Kun was in his thirties when he demolished Vodo. Age and experience =/= Power in some cases.

- Anakin isn't an idiot in RotS. He acts with complete rationale during the fight with Dooku. He acts stupid at the end, given his emotional distress (due to Padme) which will be absent in this hypothetical fight. My argument isn't moot because:
1.Kun had sufficient knowledge of Sith power and alchemy and the amulet courtesy of Freedon Nadd,he DEFINATELY had more knowledge than Vodo(he even bested Vodo before he was the DLotS,and he was older knew more than Anakin right there) AND Anakin,which means your answer right here is moot.

2. I didn't call him an idiot.He only controlled his emotions BEFORE Obi-Wan was Force choked then knocked out by Dooku,then he gave into his emotions(and his hate for Dooku,says this in the ROTS novel).

Your argument is pretty much moot right here.

1.Kun had sufficient knowledge of Sith power and alchemy and the amulet courtesy of Freedon Nadd,he DEFINATELY had more experience than Vodo AND Anakin,which means your answer right here is moot.

Uh, except he only studied them for a year or so. Whereas Vodo had the entire knowledge of the Jedi Order for 600 hundred years.

he even bested Vodo before he was the DLotS

The hell? No.

2. I didn't call him an idiot.He only controlled his emotions BEFORE Obi-Wan was Force choked then knocked out by Dooku,then he gave into his emotions(and his hate for Dooku,says this in the ROTS novel).

He used his anger as a tool, not as something that'll make him run into battle like an idiot and get pwned. That's what the Sith do, use anger as a weapon. It clearly helped Anakin in that case.

Originally posted by Razielim
1.Kun had sufficient knowledge of Sith power and alchemy and the amulet courtesy of Freedon Nadd,he DEFINATELY had more experience than Vodo AND Anakin,which means your answer right here is moot.

Uh, except he only studied them for a year or so. Whereas Vodo had the entire knowledge of the Jedi Order for 600 hundred years.

2. I didn't call him an idiot.He only controlled his emotions BEFORE Obi-Wan was Force choked then knocked out by Dooku,then he gave into his emotions(and his hate for Dooku,says this in the ROTS novel).

He used his anger as a tool, not as something that'll make him run into battle like an idiot and get pwned. That's what the Sith do, use anger as a weapon. It clearly helped Anakin in that case. 1.I edited it,read and learn.

2.The novel contradicts your statement,he didn't use it as a tool,look when he charges Dooku near the balcony(that IS rushing head long,he was overwelmed with anger for Dooku,again from the ROTS novel),looks like the movie also contradicts your statement.

Oh, so him running and jumping towards the guy means he's charging blindly into combat?! Notice how he DOESN'T get pwned there. Notice how he starts winning after that point.

And Anakin was angry, but source where it said "Overwhelmed by anger".

Originally posted by Razielim
Oh, so him running and jumping towards the guy means he's charging blindly into combat?! Notice how he DOESN'T get pwned there. Notice how he starts winning after that point.

And Anakin was angry, but source where it said "Overwhelmed by anger". I said it 2 times already!THE ROTS NOVEL!(It is also in the final draft of the script) And notice how when he goes against Obi-Wan and is angry and rushes headlong and DOES get pwned.

By source, I mean a page number or quote.

And I've covered Anakin's case on Mustafar.

Originally posted by Razielim
1.Kun had sufficient knowledge of Sith power and alchemy and the amulet courtesy of Freedon Nadd,he DEFINATELY had more experience than Vodo AND Anakin,which means your answer right here is moot.

Uh, except he only studied them for a year or so. Whereas Vodo had the entire knowledge of the Jedi Order for 600 hundred years.

he even bested Vodo before he was the DLotS

The hell? No.

2. I didn't call him an idiot.He only controlled his emotions BEFORE Obi-Wan was Force choked then knocked out by Dooku,then he gave into his emotions(and his hate for Dooku,says this in the ROTS novel).

He used his anger as a tool, not as something that'll make him run into battle like an idiot and get pwned. That's what the Sith do, use anger as a weapon. It clearly helped Anakin in that case.

What gives you more power. Studying Ancient sith knowledge and alchemy for 1 year, or studying the petty Jedi way for 600... I'd go with the former. Kun never defeated Vodo with a single blade..

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Td, you seem to have a very strange obsession with me, considered seeing someone about it?
pwnage!

pwnage? LOL...
1. Think
2. Type
3. Repeat

And no lightsnake, I've just never seen someone who is on a forum 24/7 being wrong every single time.. It's quite amusing actually.

Originally posted by tdtd
pwnage? LOL...
1. Think
2. Type
3. Repeat

And no lightsnake, I've just never seen someone who is on a forum 24/7 being wrong every single time.. It's quite amusing actually.
You mean you haven't seen yourself?

Sorry but you set yourself up for that one.

What gives you more power. Studying Ancient sith knowledge and alchemy for 1 year, or studying the petty Jedi way for 600... I'd go with the former. Kun never defeated Vodo with a single blade..

I'd say the Jedi way. I mean, if Kun studied all he had for x dozen years, he'd surpass the likes of Sadow and Kressh IMO and wtfpwn Vodo alot easier. But he could only do so much in one year. He was in a war, too, so he couldn't study all day.

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
You mean you haven't seen yourself?

Sorry but you set yourself up for that one.

Actually if you research before you make a stupid comment you can see that I am more right than wrong.. But ignorance is bliss.

I'll give you a quote:
"As the balcony collapsed atop Obi-Wan,Anakin gave into his anger for Dooku,and kicked him over the edge, and then followed him down."

Thats what it says in mine,right from the book's own pages.

Originally posted by Razielim
What gives you more power. Studying Ancient sith knowledge and alchemy for 1 year, or studying the petty Jedi way for 600... I'd go with the former. Kun never defeated Vodo with a single blade..

I'd say the Jedi way. I mean, if Kun studied all he had for x dozen years, he'd surpass the likes of Sadow and Kressh IMO and wtfpwn Vodo alot easier. But he could only do so much in one year. He was in a war, too, so he couldn't study all day.

What was Kun doing all that time on Yavin IV? Playing with himself? ALso, you don't know how much knowledge he obtained, and how much knowledge was there for him to obtain but it is VERY unlikely that it was all of Sadow's knowledge.. I still wouldn't put him anywhere near the ancient sith but above almost everybody else.

Yeah, but my original point was that more time to study =/= more powerful.

"As the balcony collapsed atop Obi-Wan,Anakin gave into his anger for Dooku,and kicked him over the edge, and then followed him down."

Yep, and no "overwhelmed by anger". No "blinded by anger". He gave into his anger like EVERY Sith does and defeated Dooku.

Anakin was undoubtedly angry, but he was using it properly.

That's an illogical way of thinking.. Time of studying in no way means more power. Sidious had less time to study than Dooku yet Sidious>Dooku. Anakin had less time to study than Obiwan yet at the end Anakin>Obiwan. It's also about potential..

That's what I meant -_-

..

Originally posted by Razielim
Yeah, but my original point was that more time to study =/= more powerful.

"As the balcony collapsed atop Obi-Wan,Anakin gave into his anger for Dooku,and kicked him over the edge, and then followed him down."

Yep, and no "overwhelmed by anger". No "blinded by anger". He gave into his anger like EVERY Sith does and defeated Dooku.

Anakin was undoubtedly angry, but he was using it properly. No, giving into anger is another way of being blinded by anger,Sith put their anger into their attacks not let it control them,so no,it wasn't like 'EVERY Sith' does.

that too

No, giving into anger is another way of being blinded by anger,Sith put their anger into their attacks not let it control them,so no,it wasn't like 'EVERY Sith' does.

That's why nearly EVERY single Sith (trying to convert someone) say "Give in to your anger! Your hate!" or something along those lines.

Regardless, it worked mighty well for Anakin.

It's simple. The sith are not bound by rules and codes, so they are stronger.

As far as strictly combat abilities go, yes.

Combat abilities force powers you name it. The strongest sith lords are always stronger than the strongest Jedi.

Honestly, that was good up until KotOR, or the Ruusan. The Ancient Sith dominated the power charts, but after they died out it became alot more even.

Heck, if you dive later into the future, Yoda is more than a match for any Sith of his era, and Luke wipes his ass with any Dark Jedi of his era.

But for an all time thing, there's only once Jedi who can stand a chance against the Ancient Sith, and his chance isn't too big for the greater of the AS at all...

Yea, DN Luke could stand up the the ancient sith although he has little chance of winning.

Lets look at the facts:
Count Dooku
-70 years light side training
-10 years dark side training
-Is a master of Form ll which is made for saber vs saber fighting
-Makashi uses minimal energy. It is also very precise and can be utilised in a small area.
-It is proven he has beaten Mace before.

Mace Windu
-Is a master of Vaapad (not very effective in small area)
-Is second in the second best dueller in the jedi order (only to Yoda and is unknown if this includes Dooku)
-Has limited knowledge of the dark side
-knows force crush which is the cause of GGs coughing

The information we have is hardly enough to draw an accurate conclusion. There is controversy over whether Dooku was going all out in his duel with Anakin and controversy about whether Sids was holding back in his battle with Mace. Which means we cant use these battles to help find a winner. If the battle is in a enclosed area mace is already at a massive disadvantage because Vaapad needs alot of room. Dooku can use this to his advantage and probably win ( please correct me if im wrong). In an open space the outcome is far more difficult to decide. Maces attacks are fast and unpredictable and MIGHT overwhelm the Count. However if they dont tire Dooku out Mace will just tire himself out. Dooku has more force knowledge because he is older (please correct me if im wrong) but again the two are so equal i doubt this will help much. It will probably come down to who will tire first. Dookus style uses minimum energy which will help greatly. However Mace is younger and fitter which will also help. The match (I think) is completely even.

lol

Dooku gets
http://www.gabor-nagy.com/pwned.jpg

Great Vengeance that pic just isn't funny anymore. Basically what you are saying is that Dooku will get pwned by Mace with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2969/dookuowned5lv.jpg

LMAO!!!

Omg that is one of the funniest pics I have seen on here, other than the Rodney King vs. Racist cops one.

Meh, they either stalemate or Dooku wins.

Originally posted by Mysterious Man


LMAO!!!!!



That pic is ****in hilarious

Originally posted by Janus Marius
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2969/dookuowned5lv.jpg
LMAO