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According to posters at KMC, who was the greatest U.S. President and why?


and just for kicks…who was the WORST?

Worst: Buchanan, but GWB is close. Time will show I'm right

Originally posted by Alliance
Worst: Buchanan, but GWB is close. Time will show I'm right

you really think Dubya will be known as THE worst?

I guess it's hard to say now...but if democracy is established in places like Afghanistan and Iraq...isn't that a GOOD thing? Doesn't that DECREASE the threat of terrorism (as is the intention of these "wars"...or so we're told)?

No. Buchanan let the Union fall apart under his nose. GWB will not be the worst, I said he would be "close". I don't believe democratic governments are right for all countries, I think GWB is very insensative to the history of other areas. Invading a soveregin nation is never a good plan. I think in the long run it has made us more enemies than we can count on. I believe we have lost what little influence we had in the area.

I always liked Teddy Roosevelt. IMO he's the greatest president in presence. I never cared for the suit wearing, Ivy-league pencil pushers of the 20th century, and the Mexican War washouts of the 19th century never impressed me either. George Washington would be a good contestant for this spot.

Worst? Grant. Scandal in the house and I seem to remember him doing something pretty damn horrid concerning surpressing Jewish rights either during the war or during his presidency.

Still, to me, letting states secede from the Union is the worst thing that a President could ever allow. It doesn't matter if you're a bigot, violent, or crazy, your primary job is to preserve the Union.

Buchanan is the only one to fail at that.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1a/Eagle.JPG/800px-Eagle.JPG

True.

my point exactly

Since when was Afghanistan a dictatorship? Any who are you to force your style of government upon other people? I believe that every nation has history and philosophy. I believe governments exist to serve the people. If a dictator serves his people, that his dictatorship is fine with me. Contries can choose the government of thier choice. It is not my place to decide for them. Besides the US has a history of supporting dictators, like Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein.

Anyway, I think internal stability is more important than external stability. If the presidents cannot effectively hold the Union together and keep the government functioning, it does nat matter where the threat is coming from, the Union is in danger. His first priority is to maintain the Union.

That being said, the President must make sure the US is prepared to face external threats. Forign policy is very important, but thats not necessarily defense and war. I would say that the president has a duty to make sure the US is prepared to deal with external threats.

Originally posted by Janus Marius

True.

That's a healthy looking bird right there.

oh yeah... my favorite part is how it has two peg legs, but the anarachy leg has a foot. wtf?

Originally posted by Alliance
Since when was Afghanistan a dictatorship? Any who are you to force your style of government upon other people? I believe that every nation has history and philosophy. I believe governments exist to serve the people. If a dictator serves his people, that his dictatorship is fine with me. Contries can choose the government of thier choice. It is not my place to decide for them. Besides the US has a history of supporting dictators, like Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein.

Anyway, I think internal stability is more important than external stability. If the presidents cannot effectively hold the Union together and keep the government functioning, it does nat matter where the threat is coming from, the Union is in danger. His first priority is to maintain the Union.

That being said, the President must make sure the US is prepared to face external threats. Forign policy is very important, but thats not necessarily defense and war. I would say that the president has a duty to make sure the US is prepared to deal with external threats.

Good points here.

I'm glad you agree.

i agre with u too alliance n i just love that sig of urs

Saddam came to power bcuz of america.america (supposedly in her conscience) 'allowed' him to take over n he was there fr like 40 yrs (i don't c y america kept her eyes closed so comfortably durin that period)

obv. u'll think that the invasion of Afghanistan was rite but it wasn't a compulsion n then u say 'v had to establish SOME kind of gov.' so democraqcy was an accident?

bein a threat to america wud b the last of any citizen's (of any country) concern.btw...y shud it b?

The greatest president our nation ever had, is easily Lincoln. No other president was put under the strain he went through. He preserved the union(which is the top priority for any president), he wasnt afraid to use the powers given to him if it meant saving this country(many people considered it abuse, but if putting key people behind bars meant preserving the union... than it was justified) and he did it all while combating severe depression.

He was also the greatest president from a moral perspective, 'The great emancipator' as they call him, was the only president who dared to abolish slavery once and for all. He knew the risks involved with issuing that final declaration, but he did it regardless. Truly a great man.

The Emancipation Proclamation didn't do shit for slavery, since no one in the south was bound by Lincoln's law at that point, and during Reconstruction the slaves and former slaves got ****ed over anyways.

And Lincoln wasn't out to abolish slavery from a moral POV; he was doing what was neccessary to preserve the union.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
The Emancipation Proclamation didn't do shit for slavery, since no one in the south was bound by Lincoln's law at that point, and during Reconstruction the slaves and former slaves got ****ed over anyways.

And Lincoln wasn't out to abolish slavery from a moral POV; he was doing what was neccessary to preserve the union.


When he issued it, it was at the turn of the tide. It had no immediate effect, but soon the war would be won and then the entire union would be under its command. Any discrimination after reconstruction is not Lincolns fault, but rather all the assholes in our country. The emancipation proclamation was regardless, a huge step for blacks as a whole towards equal rights.

And how do you know Lincolns POV? It seems more likely it was a mix of both, abolishing slavery helped the union yes, but Lincoln was also known to greatly despise slavery and it would be reasonable to assume he had moral motivations.

No it wasn't. The Emancipation proclomation only freed slaves in states in rebellion that had not returned to the Union by 1963.

It was a ploy, if the South came back to the Union, they kept their slaves. It was a political move. Moraility doesn't have to play a role in politics. Presidents have been able to keep their morals in their pants where they belong, at least historically. Lincoln may have helpd those views, that doesn't mean his decision to issue the EP was a moral move. It's more supported politically.

Anyone who uses civil rights as a barganing tool is not a great man in my book.

IMHO Clinton is the best U.S. president to date. What makes a good president isn't all about Morality, it's more about what they contribute to the country that wasn't there before them. The economy was at it's peak during his terms and quikly plummeted when GWB took office. This shows that it was not the times, but the president, and cabinet.
So he cheated on his wife, so what? Is he not permitted to have personal realtionships, just like every other american? Also, Clinton was great with keeping international affairs good. For example, the fight between Isreal and Palestine was coming close to a close, before GWB ****ed it up.

LMAO, Clinton continued the anti-environment policy that 'Dubya is so fond of. He's a liar too.

I never said he was perfect, just better than most. Sorry he's not a hippie

Originally posted by Fatal Smoke
IMHO Clinton is the best U.S. president to date. What makes a good president isn't all about Morality, it's more about what they contribute to the country that wasn't there before them. The economy was at it's peak during his terms and quikly plummeted when GWB took office. This shows that it was not the times, but the president, and cabinet.
So he cheated on his wife, so what? Is he not permitted to have personal realtionships, just like every other american? Also, Clinton was great with keeping international affairs good. For example, the fight between Isreal and Palestine was coming close to a close, before GWB ****ed it up.

things were so much better during the Clinton era

I think CLinton was good, jut not the best. I'll give him second fo the 20th century, but its so hard to compare president inter-era. The presidency had changed so much, I have problems putting it into perspective.

Yeah, 'cuz maintaining the effective destruction of the environment is a good thing...

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Yeah, 'cuz maintaining the effective destruction of the environment is a good thing...

What other points besides that?

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Yeah, 'cuz maintaining the effective destruction of the environment is a good thing...

In my opinon, there is more to the United States than the environment.

Originally posted by Alliance
I think CLinton was good, jut not the best. I'll give him second fo the 20th century, but its so hard to compare president inter-era. The presidency had changed so much, I have problems putting it into perspective.
This is such a funny post, considering the sig you have.

I know. I just think Ahmadinijad is proving himself to be a rather brilliant politician. I think he's starting something big. He's incredibly charismatic and now is directly in the center of the global spotlight. He's got power. I admire those traits.

But hes still psycho, but whats life without a little flare? Even if its genocidal .

Its a love-hate relationship.

Greatest: FDR

Worst: Buchanon

greates=clinton/lincoln/andrew jackson/andrew johnson/gerrald ford
worst=GWB/carter/nixon/kennedy

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
The greatest president our nation ever had, is easily Lincoln. No other president was put under the strain he went through. He preserved the union(which is the top priority for any president), he wasnt afraid to use the powers given to him if it meant saving this country(many people considered it abuse, but if putting key people behind bars meant preserving the union... than it was justified) and he did it all while combating severe depression.

He was also the greatest president from a moral perspective, 'The great emancipator' as they call him, was the only president who dared to abolish slavery once and for all. He knew the risks involved with issuing that final declaration, but he did it regardless. Truly a great man.

Lincln had absolutely no intentions of abolishing slavery until 1863. Even then he abolished the practice with a caveat. If the Southern states had come back into the Union they could have kept their slaves. Lincoln is also one of the greatest limiters of freedoms the U.S. has ever seen. He suspended habeas corpus, he occupied three U.S. states, and he declared matial law. No other president could do that and be called great. With the way people talk about GWB and the Patriot Act, any person who appreciates their civil rights should be somewhat disturbed by Lincoln and his actions.


Originally posted by lord xyz
greates=clinton/lincoln/andrew jackson/andrew johnson/gerrald ford
worst=GWB/carter/nixon/kennedy

You are joking right. Jackson is the only one that truly fits any definition of great on this list. Clinton needs more time in order to be considered great. Lincoln went further than GWB and yet you have him listed as great. This makes little sense. Both men limited the freedoms of the citizenry at the times of their presidencies. Johnson was the first president to get impeached. He was a drunk, illiterate racist. Ford was a moron, he pardoned one of your worst presidents. Come on.

The greatest President of all time has to be either Teddy Roosevelt, or Woodrow Wilson. Yes both men had their faults. Wilson was a racist, while Teddy could be a bit hard-headed. However, look what these two men did. Wilson was the first to have the idea of a United Nations. His League of Nations was far beyond its time. Teddy brought down many of the monopolies that had become corrupt and corrupted America.

The Worst Presidents are easy and need almost no explanations. They are as follows: 1. Buchanon 2. Grant: Great General horrible President 3. Carter 4. Kennedy 5. Lincoln

I usually judge a President by what he physically and tangibly did for the country. In other words what the President did that before wasn't there, and afterwards caused a great impact with the nation. With that in mind, I would consider the greatest to be LBJ, not only for his Civil Rights bill, but also for the other phenomenal accomplishments that he did for America's education.

One of his single greatest acts, one that not many know about but has practically touched and bettered nearly every American's life since then, was the Higher Education Facilities Act. Its biggest incentive was the huge expansion of the student loan program. Before that, any student that wasn't fortunate enough to have parents pay for their college, or weren't poor enough to be considered for grants, had a very tough time obtaining student loans, or if they wanted personal loans they had to go through the higher-interest rate bank route. With this single act, millions of potential students were suddenly given access to low-interest rate loans, either subsidized or unsubsidized, so that they could go to school and graduate with their career.

Now think about those implications. Those of you reading this who are currently going to college with loans, there's a big chance you wouldn't be able to without this act. As much as one might groan about incurring them during school, think about how much worse it would be if they weren't there for you, or how much longer it would then take to finish school. Think about how many millions of Americans lives are being bettered because of this Act. On top of that it allowed much more funding for new colleges and universities, which was absolutely essential considering the huge growth in attendance in the years since.

That's just one of the Acts LBJ passed for America's education. Here's a link containing even more.

http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/lbjforkids/edu_timeline.shtm

Oh and just in case if after reading this, one might state that if LBJ did so many great things for America's education, why is it still in the gutter when compared to other countries? Because as always there are two kinds of people in this world: those who choose to better their lives with whatever life hands them, and others who could be given the world and still end up in a wallowed life. Not even a President, and however many Presidential acts, can help the latter.

what about Vietnam?

Originally posted by Alliance
what about Vietnam?

I knew it would be naturally brought up. With the issue on Vietnam and LBJ, it all depends on the person you're talking to. I could always find you one person that'll say he didn't start it, he didn't end it, but unfortunately he had to deal with it; and conversely I could find you another person that'll state he was the devil in disguise purposely leading Americans to their death.
Yes Vietnam was a bad thing, (whatever war isn't?) but in my opinion his accomplishments listed in my previous post, and the impact they physically had on Americans lives, far outweigh whatever negative impact Vietnam had. The acts LBJ passed since the early sixties are still strongly in effect decades later, and will greatly continue to help millions upon millions of Americans for decades to come. (And all of this support I'm giving to LBJ is coming from someone who considers themselves a moderate conservative no less).

War isn't always bad, ate least on a political level. I was just curious how you'd justify LBJ as the best with Vietnam hanging over his head.

Originally posted by systemshock2
I could find you another person that'll state he was the devil in disguise purposely leading Americans to their death.

That's Reagan.

LBJ didn't start vietnam. But he did great things on a domestic level.

And Nixon was a good president.

LBJ misses out on the boat of great Presidents for the same reason as Nixon. A "great" President must be great at both foreign policy and domestic policy. If you mix Nixon and LBJ (foreign policy, domestic policy) then you have a great President.

best: garfield, he has a cartoon
worst: lincoln....MAJOR hypocrite

Does NOONE have an opinion on the Washington or Jefferson?

I think Washington is a cop out. If you look at his presidency it is not necessarily a presidency that screams great. He did a lot of good things, but many of the great things that happened during his presidency can be attributed the great minds around him (Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, Morris, and others). Jefferson was responsible the largest addition to the U.S. (Louisiana Purchase), however he got rid of the National Bank, and did not have good relations with Great Britain (handed Madison the environment that created the War of 1812). Jefferson could never seperate his personal emotions from business.

How 'bout Monroe?

The fact that George Washington wanted James Monroe brought back from France for being a traitor during his tenure as an ambassador to France. Other than that I have questions as to what he did in his presidency. It is not a crack or anything i just do not know if he could be considered great.

Yeah during his actuall presidency he wasn't all that wonderful...

It was mroe of his career as a general that got him is way to fame.

I think JEFFERSON and LINCOLN

FDR!

Best = Lincoln, FDR, Kennedy, and of course the greatest, Ronald Reagon
Worst = Clinton, weakened our military, decided to pull out of Military operations(Somalia, we could have stayed there and brought order, but decided to pull out with our first casualtys, also decided to stay out of Rwanda), had the ability to stop 9/11 before it happened (his solution to stopping Al Queda, shoot 100 cruise missiles at their bases, most of which did NOTHING. And of course his Scandal, he embaressed our country, and I really hope he doesn't become the First Lady in 2008

Originally posted by Tangible God
How 'bout Monroe?

The Monroe Doctrine, in my opinion, was a brilliant move...It allowed the US to grow as a nation (colonize), while keeping itself protected from the superpowers that were France, Spain, and Britain.

Monroe's legacy is seen even today...US embargo of Cuba anyone?

got go with FDR for best, worst I dunno, but I'm thinking Truman or Johnson

i have to say, objectivly based Polk, lol he did what he set out to do , indep. tresury, Oregan, mexican territory, he objectively was great, now weather you agrue method, his "greatness" may not be as good as it was, and worst, i think Buccannon

The best? Teddy Roosevelt! C'mon, what president can top killing a cougar with just a knife?

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
The best? Teddy Roosevelt! C'mon, what president can top killing a cougar with just a knife?

You have a point there

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
LBJ didn't start vietnam. But he did great things on a domestic level.

And Nixon was a good president.

now I know THAT was made for comedy.

Lincoln.Because of the reasons that other poster listed earlier.Next would be kennedy.He did more for the country in his short one thousand days of office than any other before him except Lincoln and washington.

FDR. Had the balls to actually fix Hoover's mess. He also put into action the resistance against Japan.

I, personally, hate Bush the most. Why? Cuz he let the assault rifle ban expire. If you've seen what an assault rifle can do, then you know how absolutely Idiotic and ignorant that really was.

dont forget he threatened FBI agents with arrest when they reported having knowledge that there were plans by terrorists to attack the trade center.a lot of people have been kept in the dark about that.Bush wanted the war to happen.Him and his daddy belong behind bars.

Originally posted by Himo
FDR. Had the balls to actually fix Hoover's mess. He also put into action the resistance against Japan.

I, personally, hate Bush the most. Why? Cuz he let the assault rifle ban expire. If you've seen what an assault rifle can do, then you know how absolutely Idiotic and ignorant that really was.

Bush isnt' the worst, he's close.

Buchanan was the worst, he let the Union fall apart. No mater how much Bush has screwed America, America still exists.

Naw Bush is the worst easily.

Presidents, like many a historical figure, have their effectives and greateness, indeed their place in history based on events that transpire around them. The events a president must deal with while occupying the White House is essentially what decides their decisive place in the annals of the American Presidency.
Lincoln and FDR will for ever be mentioned when speaking of the "greatest presidents" because the US was facing monumental threats to her very existence. Lincoln preserved the Union when it had essentially been split, FDR led America though history's bloodiest war, because of this their places are forever enshrined in the pantheon of great presidents.

It is interesting to keep in mind that many who consider two of the worst US presidents were Lincoln and FDR's predecessors: Buchanan and Hoover. Had the roles been reversed who AMerican history be different?

I believe that a president has a myriad of responsibilities that go beyond preserving the Union. The economy, foreign policy, international stability, and the men and women that surround him in his administration, just to name a few. Because of this a president's 'Greatest' should be based on their influence they have on the people and indeed the course of history.

A footnote* There was an article a few months ago in Rolling Stone written by a prominent historian from Princeton U. who essentially said that GWB is quickly making a case for himself that will land him the spot as THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER! It was great article and read if you can find it. Certainly he makes great points, i must say i agree with him But that's another topic.....

Hey great post and welcome to KMC.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Naw Bush is the worst easily.

Sorry I cant agree. There stil is A United States of America. One president, Buchanon, destroyed this nation by every defintion of the term.

Did Buchanan threaten FBI agents with arrest for trying to stop the world trade center disaster? The bush empire is an evil crimelord family.

i heart yu all, *hugs* i love you KMC *hugs* i love you MR. POLK you over bearing lovable , land "aquiring" , indepent tresuurery making foool you

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Hey great post and welcome to KMC.

Thanks, i appreciate it!

I just registered and think this is a great website!
Wish i could post more often.....Don't have that much time.

So do you know anything about that on what I said on my following post? I hope your aware of that,that its true? People like to think FDR was a good president.I bet they would change their mind though if they knew he did what Bush did with 9-11,knew it was going to happen and wanted it to happen.Thats been all over the history channel that FDR had foreknowledge the japenese were going to attack us and allowed it to happen.

The world is full of conspiracy theories...none really make sense.

Granted...neither do the real theories.

Most likely Al Gore.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
So do you know anything about that on what I said on my following post? I hope your aware of that,that its true? People like to think FDR was a good president.I bet they would change their mind though if they knew he did what Bush did with 9-11,knew it was going to happen and wanted it to happen.Thats been all over the history channel that FDR had foreknowledge the japenese were going to attack us and allowed it to happen.

I had heard that Bush had knowledge about a MAJOR potential attack in the days leading up to 9/11. Richard Clarke, "Terrorist Czar" under Clinton and for a short time under Bush, has steadfastly said that he told the Bush Admin., "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE INSIDE U.S." as late as Sep. 8!!!!! Of Course neither Bush nor anyone in his Admin. or his supporters will ever concede that they had knowledge beforehand.

As far as FDR is concerned, yes i have heard and read some things where people believe that he new of an imminent attack by the Japanese against U.S. Naval targets in the Pacific and chose to do nothing. Wheather or not this is actually true continues to be debated.

Mr. Parker, the thing you need to keep in mind is that whenever a major historical event occurs that forever changes our lives, i.e 9/11, the JFK assasination, or Pearl Harbor there will always be individuals who won't accept the "official story". It is human nature for people to reject the notion that this could have happened or that that it was meant to happen. Because they can't accept it, they begin to believe that there are other forces at work and these trajedies HAVE to be the work others, masterminds working behind the scenes. This of course is where conspiracy theories are born.

Hope this Helps!!

well I cant comment too much about pearl harbour whether FDR knew or not but seeing as how the government lies on just about everything I got to believe he did because I HAVE done an immense amount of research over the years on the Kennedy assassination and 9-11 to know that the official versions are fairy tales.I got real interested in the Kennedy assassination thanks to stones film JFK and I have read a countless number of books on the subject with different theory's set forth and I understand why stone used the book CROSSFIRE by Jim Marrs for the main thesis of his movie because in all my research,that one book has the most damning information that shreds apart the warren commission and proves its a fairy tale and proves as well it was an inside job by people in high positions of power within the government.I have interviewed myself witnesses who were there that day who to this day tell counts of being threatened and harassed and intimidated by FBI agents ect for not having the same official story that the fairy tale warren commission was reporting,the warren commission did not want to hear any witness who had a version different than theirs if it did not support their official story.it was a key stone cops investigation.Theres just to much overwhelming proof that it was an inside job. also,all you got to do find out that George Bush is indeed a very evil man and would want something like 9-11 to happen is do some research on the bush family,they are a criminal empire of a family that goes all the way back to Bush Sr's father.The Bush family is indeed a very corrupted and evil family.The reason why there is a controversy going on with the Kennedy assassination and with 9-11 is because the facts of the case,dont fit the explanations given by the government.what the official versions are saying totally contradicts what witnesses who were there in dallas and new york are saying. so knowing how that and the history of the way the government lies to the people all the time to get us into these FAKE wars so all these American corporations and businesses could profit ,I got to believe that FDR knew about it.Like I said,we have a pretty corrupt government and politicians get away with crimes all the time we never could get away with so I have to believe that its true that FDR had prior knowledge as well just like Bush did.Like I said,just do some research on the Bush family,you'll be surprised what you'll learn about their criminal backgrounds they have.

Nah... the best has to be Zachary Taylor... or the "Master of Scandal" Warren G Harding.

Well getting back on topic i think its safe to say that anyone with half a brain will agree that GWB and his admin. will go down as one of the WORST in American history.

Originally posted by History Buff
Well getting back on topic i think its safe to say that anyone with half a brain will agree that GWB and his admin. will go down as one of the WORST in American history.

this is true...

however, people with a whole brain might give it some more consideration and maybe a few more decades to see if the current president and his administration really is (was?) the WORST

oh I would not be surprised one bit at all if sometime down the road there is a president and an administration worse than Bush's. I figured it would be ages before anybody came close to being as bad as Clinton.Till Bush jr got elected,I considered Clinton tied with Nixon as the worst.Now they're tied for second worst.

I noticed that many of you were critical and hesitant in a nomination of George Washington. It is true that many of his successes were attributed to the works of others, however, this was one of Washington's greatest virtues as a politician: his willingness to delegate. By delegating Hamilton the duty to pen the best resolution to the the fiscal problem of inflation, foreign debt and a fledgling economy was arguably his finest decision because it saved the infant U.S. from dying in the cradle that would result from economic slavery to foreign debtors. In a time when the thirteen states predominantly thought themselves as a conglomeration of countries, Washington was the singular embodiment of American unity and was the only man who could have secured the survival of the nation by his unwillingness to engage in foreign conflict. He allowed the American Republic to mature from a weakened post-war confederation into a powerful unified player upon the world stage.

Washington didn't really DO that much though as President.

it all goes back to the same point.

George W. Bush.....Great?..or Greatest?

I wouls say Bush 2. He has balls. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/tim1234321/super_cool.gif

Reagon takes this easily

Bush has been strong during the beginning of the war, but he's starting to weaken. He's not a Great President, but he's the best we can get

Reagan destroyed America.

1. Recast the cold war.
2. Tax cuts.
3. Defecit spending.
4. Failed economic policies that destroyed the midddle class.
5. Conservatism.

Originally posted by Alliance
Reagan destroyed America.

1. Recast the cold war.
2. Tax cuts.
3. Defecit spending.
4. Failed economic policies that destroyed the midddle class.
5. Conservatism.

1.)Cold War ended thanks to Reagon
2.)What's wrong with Tax Cuts? We do fine without them, why are raising Taxes so we all go into Financial Hell good?
3.)Examples?
4.)Middle Class actually survives thanks to Tax Cuts but whatever
5.)How is that wrong? A Majority of Americans are Conservative, they're the right ones for Wartime

Best: Reagan Worst: Bush(son)

greatest
JFK

worst
monkey boy

Originally posted by Alliance
Reagan destroyed America.

1. Recast the cold war.
2. Tax cuts.
3. Defecit spending.
4. Failed economic policies that destroyed the midddle class.
5. Conservatism.

for once,your correct on something about history.

HA.

Originally posted by bILLYgOAT
greatest
JFK

worst
monkey boy

JFK was not a great president. He was mediocre, but because he was popular and got assassinated everyone elevates him to god-like status.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
JFK was not a great president. He was mediocre, but because he was popular and got assassinated everyone elevates him to god-like status.

You really can't decide if he should be elevated to "Great" or not...He only had two and a half years in office....But I agree that people elevate him way too much.

I would have to say either Franklin Delano Roosevelt or Abraham Lincoln.

Abraham All the way

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
1.)Cold War ended thanks to Reagon
2.)What's wrong with Tax Cuts? We do fine without them, why are raising Taxes so we all go into Financial Hell good?
3.)Examples?
4.)Middle Class actually survives thanks to Tax Cuts but whatever
5.)How is that wrong? A Majority of Americans are Conservative, they're the right ones for Wartime

Actually Reagan had nothing to do with the fall of Communism or ending the Cold War. Communism was an ideaology whose time had come on gone. Gorbachev is the one much more directly responsible for ending The Cold War because he was the first Russian leader who chose to take the Soviet Empire on a different course of action.

I've tend to agree with people who regard Reagan as primarily a puppet who was controlled by men in his cabinet. Ergo, NOT a Great President

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
1.)Cold War ended thanks to Reagon
2.)What's wrong with Tax Cuts? We do fine without them, why are raising Taxes so we all go into Financial Hell good?
3.)Examples?
4.)Middle Class actually survives thanks to Tax Cuts but whatever
5.)How is that wrong? A Majority of Americans are Conservative, they're the right ones for Wartime
The tax cuts and deficiet spending are enatly linked.

Tax cuts are fine, as long as you spend less. But he didn't slow spending, and thus he ran a deficiet.

Originally posted by Fawne
Abraham All the way

yeah I say him and JFK and trust me,I have never elevated him to god like status because of his assassination.dont want to get into it but if he had lived in finished out his second term,the world would not be in the mess that it is today for example he had plans to get rid of the CIA which is a major reason why our world is so screwed up today.they are a wicked and evil organization.again really dont want to get into that,pm me if you want to discuss that.just giving my reasons why kennedy was a very good president.

hehe...."wicked and evil"...soooo subjective.

I don't think Kennedy really did much.

I like presidents with visions for the US...people like Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Wilson, and Roosevelt.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
JFK was not a great president.

WW III averted by JFK
APOLLO started by JFK

ok so there was no wars started ... too fuggin bad

Best: Jefferson. Author of the Declaration. 1st Secretary of State. Louisana Purchase. He was truly great.

Worst: Harding. Several in his cabinet were convicted for felonies. The Teapot Dome

The best president was obviously good ol' Teddy. I mean, what other president killed a cougar with a knife?

andrew jackson, because he was once a professional knife fighter. that's moxie.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Best: Jefferson. Author of the Declaration. 1st Secretary of State. Louisana Purchase. He was truly great.

Worst: Harding. Several in his cabinet were convicted for felonies. The Teapot Dome Close contender for best was my man FDR.

And we can't forget Al Gore. Best President to never serve in office

FDR, what a Remarkable man.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
The best president was obviously good ol' Teddy. I mean, what other president killed a cougar with a knife?

Bulleigh!

Well, bush is getting better. I think we will give him one last shot then its off to the dumpsters ^.^

I can think of only one defence for Bush.

If the citizens were stupid enough to vote him in for a second term, then, he really has very little to work with...

In my humble opinion, of course:

I. Best President - George Washington - ...And not just because of his hemp advocation.

II. Worst President - George W. Bush - I wanted to type Nixon, but what a colossal embarrassment W. has been. Good riddance.

Best: John F. Kennedy
Worst: ????

Originally posted by Alliance
hehe...."wicked and evil"...soooo subjective.

I don't think Kennedy really did much.

I like presidents with visions for the US...people like Jefferson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Wilson, and Roosevelt.

trust me,every president since kennedy with the exception of carter has been an evil wicked man.You cannot become president unless you have some very high powerful connections.By the time you get that high up to being elected president, you have been compromised by the secret government which means you have become corrupted in all the time you spent trying to get that far.You dont get that far to becoming president if you havent dome some dirty deeds along the way.When the secret government elects you,you have become compromised because they know your dirty deeds and if you dont play ball with them and do what they tell you to do,you end up like kennedy.
To say kennedy really didnt do much is just being extremely ignorant.he did more in his short 1000 days off office than any other president since washington.

if there was EVER a president that had visions for the people,JFK was the one.That was why he was assassinated because he actually cared about the people and was trying to do things for the people and was stepping on a lot of high powerful toes in government.dont even get me started on how FDR was evil.

Originally posted by Nosada
In my humble opinion, of course:

I. Best President - George Washington - ...And not just because of his hemp advocation.

II. Worst President - George W. Bush - I wanted to type Nixon, but what a colossal embarrassment W. has been. Good riddance.

thats a good selection

yeah for worst president I would put Both Bushs in there as well,plus Nixon and Clinton,those two guys are so much alike.

No question about it,the only good US president,Franklin D Roosvelt

Greatest, George Washington
Worst, George W Bush

Bush was joking about not finding WMD in Iraq remember?? HOW CAN he get away with that????? That is crazy, thousands of dead people and he just jokes like its nothing! Bill Clinton was in NYC after 9/11 before Bush was and that was like 3 days later I believe after 9/11. wtf are u waiting on Bush get your butt up to ny, ppl need you.. Not caring about where Bin Laden is also, remember the guy that is blamed for 9/11 but oh why don't u care about him?? Strange, maybe cause you know he didn't do it or you let him do it. I could go on but I'm sure he's the worst. let the impeachment begin.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
trust me,every president since kennedy with the exception of carter has been an evil wicked man.You cannot become president unless you have some very high powerful connections.By the time you get that high up to being elected president, you have been compromised by the secret government which means you have become corrupted in all the time you spent trying to get that far.You dont get that far to becoming president if you havent dome some dirty deeds along the way.When the secret government elects you,you have become compromised because they know your dirty deeds and if you dont play ball with them and do what they tell you to do,you end up like kennedy.
To say kennedy really didnt do much is just being extremely ignorant.he did more in his short 1000 days off office than any other president since washington.

if there was EVER a president that had visions for the people,JFK was the one.That was why he was assassinated because he actually cared about the people and was trying to do things for the people and was stepping on a lot of high powerful toes in government.dont even get me started on how FDR was evil.

Secret government?

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Secret government?

yeah.to put it in better terms.People in high positions of power within the government control the world.I guarantee you,they already got it fixed on who gets elected as president next year.actually selected is what it is.A better term for it is the controllers.a year before Bush got elected,i was already saying he was gonna get elected because anybody who knows about the bushs,knows how corrupted that family is.

Originally posted by kevdude
Greatest, George Washington
Worst, George W Bush

Bush was joking about not finding WMD in Iraq remember?? HOW CAN he get away with that????? That is crazy, thousands of dead people and he just jokes like its nothing! Bill Clinton was in NYC after 9/11 before Bush was and that was like 3 days later I believe after 9/11. wtf are u waiting on Bush get your butt up to ny, ppl need you.. Not caring about where Bin Laden is also, remember the guy that is blamed for 9/11 but oh why don't u care about him?? Strange, maybe cause you know he didn't do it or you let him do it. I could go on but I'm sure he's the worst. let the impeachment begin.

well said.

great and US presidency are two institutions which DO NOT MIX. the way in which american democracy/its world power and global economic strength worth does not ALLOW good people to become presidents any more than the electal criterie of the mob or the yakuza let GOOD people become candidates/take the position of authority.

Originally posted by Alliance
Bush isnt' the worst, he's close.

Buchanan was the worst, he let the Union fall apart. No mater how much Bush has screwed America, America still exists. America still exists but what Bush has done during his presidency is destroying the fabric of what makes America America, ruing our international reputation, which is worse than letting it fall apart.

Originally posted by Danny1991
Well, bush is getting better. I think we will give him one last shot then its off to the dumpsters ^.^ [/QUOTE

Getting Better??? At what exactly??

Originally posted by History Buff
Originally posted by Danny1991
Well, bush is getting better. I think we will give him one last shot then its off to the dumpsters ^.^

yeah. getting better at being more evil maybe.

Interesting thread. Hmm.....

In no particular order, off the top of my head:

FDR
Lincoln
JFK

best president: George Washington

this was a man, who knew what democracy was about, this was a man, who knew how the world should work, This was a man who could have stayed as president all his life, but instead chose to give up his power so his democracy would prevail, he created the "cabinet" which does not exsist in the constitution and he set up the excutive brance with stability that would last for decades


worst president: George W. Bush

how can you go from a 4 trillion dollar suprlus, to over 11 trillion dollars in debt in 6 years???
worst environemtnal policy ever
the president to make up the most words
the president to take away the most rights

Originally posted by BobbyD
Interesting thread. Hmm.....

In no particular order, off the top of my head:

FDR
Lincoln
JFK

I thought that about FDR for a long time as well but he was a corrupted SOB.He knew well in advance the japense would bomb pearl harbour and let it happen so we would go to war and join england in their march to defeat Hitler.the bastard.

I believe FDR was also a Free-Mason, if you subscribe to the theory that Masons are always plotting something secrective.

yeah I have heard that as well.yeah he was an evil SOB contrary to what some people have been told about him.Thats not common knowledge about him so a lot of people dont know that about him.

Best-Abe Lincoln. He reunited the union for gods sake.

Worst-George W. Bush ,What a Dumbass.

Bush Jr. is not only the worst he's a disgrace, a threat, and all out embarrassment!!

I find it interesting that a post asking the simple and innocent question of "who is the greatest US president" turned into an expression of who is the worst.

I will answer this question as the author intended by stating my choice with a brief explanation of why, in my humble opinion, the person was above the rest. Before I do this I would like to say that most major publications and media outlets such as Time, USA Today and most recently CNN have asked such questions. Ronald Reagan most recently comes to mind as he was voted by the people of the United States as the greatest American ever. I think it fair to say that Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, and Reagan are the finalist. This question is one that is complex because you are juxtaposing human behavior and decisions to geopolitics for the past three hundred years. All had enormous struggle and all persevered. First, lets list the major accomplishments:

Washington
1. Greatest General in the Revolutionary War
2. In the company of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Ben Franklin et-al, was choosen as the best between them and given the office.
3. On Mt Rushmore

Adams

1. By most accounts the most responsible for severing ties with Brittan

Jefferson

1. Wrote the declaration of Independence
2. Louisiana Purchase
3. On mt. Rushmore

Madison

1. Father of the Constitution
2. Major author of the Federalist Papers
3. Father of the Bill of Rights

Lincoln

1. Preservation of the Union under the greatest internal turmoil
2. Chief player in the abolition of slavery
3. On mt. Rushmore

Roosevelt

1. Panama Canal
2. Square Deal
3. Sherman Antitrust Act

FDR

1. WWII (NO explanation needed)
2. Arsenal of Democracy/End of Great Depression

Reagan

1. Chief architect to the defeat of the Soviet Union
2. Highest Approval Rating
3. Supply side Economics "Reaganomics"

After writing that very brief and undoubtedly, incomplete, list of achievements I can now say that I have my choice.

Lincoln.

Can you imagine you persevered the United States, the greatest country or civilization the world has ever know, from the worst peril it has ever known. Once you vanquish your foes on the battlefield, you then show mercy, much to most of your sides chagrin, and unify the country. Oh yeah, you sort of abolish slavery as a side bar to that! Wow! In addition, you are assassinated before you ever get to run the US on a peace time footing.

In closing, how impressed are you with the James Madison. I bet some of you first reading my choices said "Madison?" How would you like to have as your epitaph: Father of the Constitution, Father of the Bill of Rights and coauthor of the Federalist papers. Wow!!!

I pick Reagan as #2

Originally posted by Lord of Murder
I find it interesting that a post asking the simple and innocent question of "who is the greatest US president" turned into an expression of who is the worst.

I will answer this question as the author intended by stating my choice with a brief explanation of why, in my humble opinion, the person was above the rest. Before I do this I would like to say that most major publications and media outlets such as Time, USA Today and most recently CNN have asked such questions. Ronald Reagan most recently comes to mind as he was voted by the people of the United States as the greatest American ever. I think it fair to say that Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, and Reagan are the finalist. This question is one that is complex because you are juxtaposing human behavior and decisions to geopolitics for the past three hundred years. All had enormous struggle and all persevered. First, lets list the major accomplishments:

Washington
1. Greatest General in the Revolutionary War
2. In the company of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Ben Franklin et-al, was choosen as the best between them and given the office.
3. On Mt Rushmore

Adams

1. By most accounts the most responsible for severing ties with Brittan

Jefferson

1. Wrote the declaration of Independence
2. Louisiana Purchase
3. On mt. Rushmore

Madison

1. Father of the Constitution
2. Major author of the Federalist Papers
3. Father of the Bill of Rights

Lincoln

1. Preservation of the Union under the greatest internal turmoil
2. Chief player in the abolition of slavery
3. On mt. Rushmore

Roosevelt

1. Panama Canal
2. Square Deal
3. Sherman Antitrust Act

FDR

1. WWII (NO explanation needed)
2. Arsenal of Democracy/End of Great Depression

Reagan

1. Chief architect to the defeat of the Soviet Union
2. Highest Approval Rating
3. Supply side Economics "Reaganomics"

After writing that very brief and undoubtedly, incomplete, list of achievements I can now say that I have my choice.

Lincoln.

Can you imagine you persevered the United States, the greatest country or civilization the world has ever know, from the worst peril it has ever known. Once you vanquish your foes on the battlefield, you then show mercy, much to most of your sides chagrin, and unify the country. Oh yeah, you sort of abolish slavery as a side bar to that! Wow! In addition, you are assassinated before you ever get to run the US on a peace time footing.

In closing, how impressed are you with the James Madison. I bet some of you first reading my choices said "Madison?" How would you like to have as your epitaph: Father of the Constitution, Father of the Bill of Rights and coauthor of the Federalist papers. Wow!!!

I pick Reagan as #2

Good Post But I think you left out a vital kandidate Kennedy, I know he wasn't around for long but still he handle det Cuban crisis and he managed to make the cold war less cold only my Openion but I agree that Lincoln is the greatest President.

Most of the early presidents certainly do deserve recognition as Great presidents because they were in fact the architects of the early American Republic. However, the two greatest HAVE to be Lincoln and FDR for the simply fact that they led the country steadfastly and dutifully when the country was in the midst of its greatest peril: the Civil War and WWII, respectively.

I've never understood Reagan's stature with Americans nor do I think he should be mentioned in the same breath as Lincoln, FDR, Jefferson, Washington, Madison,or even Wilson. The notion that his leadership helped defeat the evil Soviet Empire is inaccurate on two levels. First, Reagan was in a sense a puppet that surrounded himself with very capable and intelligent people who basically "ran the show" and pulled Regan's strings. Second, the Soviet Empire's fall was inevitable. Communism as an economic doctrine and ideology was doomed. The fall of communism throughout Eastern Europe was a result of the Berlin Wall's fall that was the required spark to bring down the 'Iron Curtain'. Did Reagan's foreign policy buttress that fall? Possibly. But i think it would have happened regardless of who the president was.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
According to posters at KMC, who was the greatest U.S. President and why?


and just for kicks…who was the WORST? Best: Clinton
Worst: Dubya

Why? Clinton did everything he promised. He made the country great. He might not be a good person, but he surely did everything he could for the country. Dubya did the exact opposite and has the record for ****ing everything up. Before Clinton things were shit, during Clinton things were getting better. After Clinton things went from being the best they've ever been, to the worst they've ever been in the shortest possible time. This was BEFORE Iraq!

Originally posted by Blax XXX
Most likely Al Gore.

That makes little sense, even if that was supposed to be a joke.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Best: Clinton
Worst: Dubya

Why? Clinton did everything he promised. He made the country great. He might not be a good person, but he surely did everything he could for the country. Dubya did the exact opposite and has the record for ****ing everything up. Before Clinton things were shit, during Clinton things were getting better. After Clinton things went from being the best they've ever been, to the worst they've ever been in the shortest possible time. This was BEFORE Iraq!

I don't know. I'd put him at 2nd behind Lincoln.

thats hysterical that xyz thinks clinton was the best.I know that was meant as a funny joke. he was the most corrupted right up there with richard nixon till bush jr came along.

Originally posted by moonknight11
I don't know. I'd put him at 2nd behind Lincoln.

I know your being funny.

For me, between Lincoln and Roosvelt.

Both Bush, Reagan, Nixon and Clinton were jerks and killers.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
thats hysterical that xyz thinks clinton was the best.I know that was meant as a funny joke. he was the most corrupted right up there with richard nixon till bush jr came along. More corrupt than Bush Senior and Reagan and FDR and Ford and Eisenhower?

Originally posted by Mr Parker
I know your being funny. No. Apart from the ridiculous Clinton scandals which make no sense, he was good. Most Democrats are.

Originally posted by Lord of Murder
Reagan

1. Chief architect to the defeat of the Soviet Union
2. Highest Approval Rating
3. Supply side Economics "Reaganomics"
No, his aprroval rating was substantially low compared to those surrounding him.

Not only that, but Reagan is a simple-minded lucky delusional neocon, who lies to his people and exagerates to control people IE anti-democratic. Sure, he campaigned for less government control, but he terrorised the public to support him. All neocons do.

Originally posted by bakerboy
For me, between Lincoln and Roosvelt.

Both Bush, Reagan, Nixon and Clinton were jerks and killers.

yeah they sure were.anyone who talks this crap of clinton being one of the top 5 best presidents is clearly a fool.thats all documented how they were all killers.especially clinton.

Reagan was awful, the only reason he's considered the best is because of Fox News and sympathy votes.

The drug war was an utter failure. His economics lead to a recession that only the first war in Iraq could pull us out of, the fall of the Soviet Union was inevitable no matter who was in charge and it was during Reagan that we helped and/or keep Bin Laden and Hussein in power.

I'd go with FDR, he may have cheated on his wife and should have entered WW2 sooner, but he helped our nation through its depression and created government programs that would have made Jesus proud.

yeah Reagan,Both Bushs,Nixon and clinton,they were ALL awful.some people dont know about all the autrocitys those presidents were involved in.

You honestly think Reagan was awful? Not liking him doesn't mean he was an awful president.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
who was the greatest U.S. President Jefferson Davis.


Sad that the evil north never accepted it.

In my opinion Lincoln should've just let The South split. If I were president at the time, I would not have opposed secession.

Easy the Teddy

the fools who voted for clinton-are obviously not aware of the the many autrocitys he committed in office and contrary to what they think,the economy did NOT blossom under clinton.that bastard clinton signed NAFTA into effect which was responsible for the losses of over hundreds of thousands of jobs shipped over to mexico for slave labor.it was all disguised as free trade being beneficial to us but thats not what it was.

People are not fools because they vote for a candidate you do not care for. Every president in recent history has had their bad decisions and the good. If you must complain about Clinton, may I add at least he did not plunge us into war and occupying a foreign land we have no business interfering with. If Bush and the others have their way, not only will we be at war with other nations like Iran, we will be in Iraq for many years to come. And it is not too far-fetched to assume Bush could contrive an emergency to stay in office past January 20, 2009.

well yeah they are not fools but they are extremely naive -not they're fault because the mainstream media manipulates people and conditions them to believe certain things about candidates and they never report him for who he REALLY is.People just like clinton because of his good looks.Just visit my thread in the conspiracy section called THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION and you will get an education that he is right up there with Dick Nixon as the second most evil corrpted bastard of a president there ever was.

Plus I can refer you to SEVERAL books out there for you to read at the library of people who served under his administration and like with Nixon,resigned in disgust because they saw what an evil and corrupted man he was.there is one called NO ONE LEFT TO LIE TO.its called that because very few people who originally served in the clinton white house early on with clinton,.left and resigned in disgust because of him.

Read my previous posts.I NEVER said I liked Bush did I? so why bring THAT up? you wont find me saying that Bush was a better president than clinton,again he is the one president out there who is more of a corrupted and evil man than he is. and again,to get yourself educated on how CLINTON was a horrible president and know about the FACTS of autrocitys he committed in office,you need to get yourself educated like these others do and visit that clinton thread of mine in the conspiracy section. that would be a good start.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You honestly think Reagan was awful? Not liking him doesn't mean he was an awful president.

just read Erica Dawns post.I guess you missed that one just previous to mine? thats one of quite a few reasons that Reagan was over rated as being a good president.Theres a reason for WHY people didnt like him as president you know?

ford, or roosevelt