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Are we repeating ourselves? Or more so intriguing to me, is something allowing us to repeat ourselves for it's own gain, unbeknown st to us?

Can you say, "Matrix?"

Originally posted by Mindship
Can you say, "Matrix?"

I already have!

Sure anythings possible I suppose......Everything seems to run in cycles.

Originally posted by Tired Hiker
Are we repeating ourselves? Or more so intriguing to me, is something allowing us to repeat ourselves for it's own gain, unbeknown st to us?
Too vague. And if it were not already evident or detectable, we could never establish that we were indeed repeating outselves.... Depending on which context you're meaning.

The problem is reincarnation. The same people keep coming back over and over and making the same mistakes. Anyone who figures it all out gets to move on, but those who screw up have to stay until they get it right.

Except that reincarnation doesn't have any real merit in the discussion except for pure speculation; you can't even infer that it exists using real knowledge.

The difference between pure speculation and applied speculation is that the former is just imagining and fantasizing about things that may not be real at all. For example, I can purely speculate that Legolas could own Gimli or that in a fistfight, Caesar would own Napoleon. However, none of those can be properly infered upon because they did not take place.

Same with reincarnation. There's nothing to infer that it exists. So anything we say about it is 100% speculation. Just like I could say "there's a man on the moon and he wears green shoes"... well, you can do whatever you want with that. It's not provable and not likely true either.

On the other hand, at least we can use observation and repeatability to make explanations for things such as gravity, temperature, and why the DOW is going up or down. We can't make any such informed assumptions on reincarnation.

Unless you're sitting on a goldmine of metaphysical knowledge?

Originally posted by Janus Marius
The difference between pure speculation and applied speculation is that the former is just imagining and fantasizing about things that may not be real at all. For example, I can purely speculate that Legolas could own Gimli or that in a fistfight, Caesar would own Napoleon. However, none of those can be properly infered upon because they did not take place.

Same with reincarnation. There's nothing to infer that it exists. So anything we say about it is 100% speculation. Just like I could say "there's a man on the moon and he wears green shoes"... well, you can do whatever you want with that. It's not provable and not likely true either.

On the other hand, at least we can use observation and repeatability to make explanations for things such as gravity, temperature, and why the DOW is going up or down. We can't make any such informed assumptions on reincarnation.

Unless you're sitting on a goldmine of metaphysical knowledge?

I look at the patterns in life and I can see that we seem to keep making the same mistakes. I believe in reincarnation because of personal reasons, and it seems to me that it explains why this pattern exists. Therefore, I'm going to tell you what I think. You tell me what do you think is the reason for this pattern.

in all fairness.......

1. this is the philosophy forum......... not applicable to scientific processes......

2. If the entire whole of "reality" were to be repeating itself over and over as suggested, there would be no scientific data to be gained....

To be as knowledgable as we are in scientific areas........we still have not proven what reality as experienced by the human being is, only how we human beings view it...nor what,why or how intelligence happens, only that it exists.......... until an answer is reached involving those two questions, even the metaphysical ideas are just as valid as any other offered..........

They say that when you die your life flashes before your eyes... when in the right setting time can seem to take forever. It is possible we are all watching our life play out infront of our eyes and that we are dieing... which would be interesting as a dieing man would be writing this post...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I look at the patterns in life and I can see that we seem to keep making the same mistakes. I believe in reincarnation because of personal reasons, and it seems to me that it explains why this pattern exists. Therefore, I'm going to tell you what I think. You tell me what do you think is the reason for this pattern.

Okay, I can play this game.

I believe that I have an intangible, undetectable, omnipotent midget riding around on my shoulder at all times.

Let's talk about that.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Okay, I can play this game.

I believe that I have an intangible, undetectable, omnipotent midget riding around on my shoulder at all times.

Let's talk about that.


Being obnoxious doesnt win a debate, when will you learn this?

According to Hinduism, yes, everything has already happened. And we are just living out an ilusion, until the next life. (Wierd, huh?)

And in The Qu'ran, when Mohammed rode the buraq to Paradise (heaven) he saw everything that has ever happaned, and everything that WILL happen.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Being obnoxious doesnt win a debate, when will you learn this?

Your last debate... where you got owned.

I don't think you have any reason to talk.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Your last debate... where you got owned.

I don't think you have any reason to talk.


I never got owned, infact you proved my point. I stopped debating, because your intolerable to debate with.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
*Rampant bullshit*

Yeah, okay, kid. You were really the solid debator and mature one in that thread.

"Your argument sucks. I disagree. Here's some random irrelevant misdirections and strawman arguments. Btw, I'm committing Ad Hominem abusive but not realizing it, while accusing you of the same thing. I am Great Vengeance, who thinks he has mastered the arts of psychology, philosophy, history and debate at age 15."

Excuse me while I laugh at your blatant foolishness, GV.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yeah, okay, kid. You were really the solid debator and mature one in that thread.

"Your argument sucks. I disagree. Here's some random irrelevant misdirections and strawman arguments. Btw, I'm committing Ad Hominem abusive but not realizing it, while accusing you of the same thing. I am Great Vengeance, who thinks he has mastered the arts of psychology, philosophy, history and debate at age 15."

Excuse me while I laugh at your blatant foolishness, GV.

More obnoxious behavior, go on... keep proving my point for me.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
More obnoxious behavior, go on... keep proving my point for me.

What exactly is he proving?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
What exactly is he proving?


That he uses insults and obnoxious behavior to make his arguments appear stronger.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
That he uses insults and obnoxious behavior to make his arguments appear stronger.

Thats real common on KMC. I'll try to explain or point something out to some teenager, and they'll respond exactly like that.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
That he uses insults and obnoxious behavior to make his arguments appear stronger.

It's really amusing, because I was very civil to you and fair and thorough and you kept disagreeing with me and then started this "Oh, you don't know anything" routine...

So when I come back at you with a rocksolid argument and some personal suggestions tacked on, you get all bent out of shape? Like I said, whining gets you nowhere. I was more than fair with you and entertained all your questions and clarified my stances... after the tenth reply, I got sick of your two-bit stance and thickheaded replies and I took the kids' gloves off. At that point you attempted to poison the well by saying I was attacking you personally, as though I couldn't get jabs in on you and debate at the same time.

And in the end, you resorted to an unrelated copy and paste response, and then admitted you were just trying to piss me off. Who's the obnoxious one? Oh, right... you.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Okay, I can play this game.

I believe that I have an intangible, undetectable, omnipotent midget riding around on my shoulder at all times.

Let's talk about that.

Well, I should introduce your midget to ED's green dragon.

I'm not playing a game. And I feel sorry for you, omnipotent midget are a bi-tch and can really hurt your back.

My belief in reincarnation is my belief, what gives you the right to attempt (poorly) to ridicule me? I did not impose my belief onto you, nor did I, at any time, make fun of you or put down your beliefs.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, I should introduce your midget to ED's green dragon.

I'm not playing a game. And I feel sorry for you, omnipotent midget are a bi-tch and can really hurt your back.

My belief in reincarnation is my belief, what gives you the right to attempt (poorly) to ridicule me? I did not impose my belief onto you, nor did I, at any time, make fun of you or put down your beliefs.

I'm not ridiculing your beliefs, Shaky. I'm questioning your assertion:



^ See that right there? That's 100% unprovable, undebatable, and uncertifiable opinion right there. I don't mind that at all, since you are fully entitled to have opinions and beliefs. However, as I pointed out, those kinds of answers don't further the question at hand. If we all sat around and gave opinions, this would be another OTF thread with a slightly smarter fanbase.

So before you get upset, realize that I'm not attacking your conclusion; I'm just stating that how you reached it isn't an objective basis for discussion. It's just an opinion not based in any real fact or logical argument.

I see nothing wrong with what Janus has stated.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
I didn't think you would take offense, honestly. You didn't appear to be someone with a thin skin. Really, if you take that as an affront to your religion...

Well, I'll be honest- that's ridiculous. Religious reasons are personal reasons, and for you to expect everyone to "respect" them so that they're beyond any form of criticism or even a jab or two, then you're being ridiculous. I was making a point that I can believe in all sorts of things, but they aren't workable as discussion topics in a philosophy forum. You mentioned reincarnation; I think the idea is unbelievable. You have your right to believe in it; I have my right to not believe in it. I am not going to be painted the bad guy here because I second-guessed your faith and conviction.

If pointing out that your own personal beliefs don't constitute an objective and valid answer to the question is "mocking your beliefs", you need to grow a thick skin and get over it.

I wasn't bothered until you ignored my question, of what do you think is causing this repeat in history. I do have a thick skin but intent is everything to me. Maybe it was an error on my part, but I thought you were avoiding the question and just being a smart ass.

So, if reincarnation is not a good answer, then why do you think time seems to repeat its self?

BTW As far as I am concerned, all is forgiven.

Meh people mock my Christian beliefs all the time... and I never really take it seriously.

And Skaky what I think Janus was referring to is that you cannot use religious beliefs in a debate since unless they have tangible proof they are merely opinions and not actual facts. I doubt it was intention to mock your beliefs he's just not that kind of guy.

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
Meh people mock my Christian beliefs all the time... and I never really take it seriously.

And Skaky what I think Janus was referring to is that you cannot use religious beliefs in a debate since unless they have tangible proof they are merely opinions and not actual facts. I doubt it was intention to mock your beliefs he's just not that kind of guy.

I know, I didn't have a problem with the first part.

I am not debating anything with anyone, I am just having fun.

Lets get back on topic, please.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Too vague. And if it were not already evident or detectable, we could never establish that we were indeed repeating outselves.... Depending on which context you're meaning.

^ That's my original post. I personally think the topic question itself needs to be put into perspective. Tired Hiker suggests that something unknown or beyond our senses is manipulating us into repeating ourselves. I find that a flawed premise to start with, since we can't establish anything like that, and it'd just degrade into fantasy work. Now if he's asking it from a social or psychological viewpoint: What makes us repeat our past mistakes as individuals and as humanity as a whole? it'd be a much better topic for discussion.

And I apologize if I came off harsh, Shak. You certainly haven't said anything to spite me in the past, and I don't want to be causing bad blood over a few careless words on my part. Simply put- it's not worth the effort to fret over. Like you said, back on topic.

Some people should learn to take responsability for what they say.

Originally posted by Tired Hiker
Are we repeating ourselves? Or more so intriguing to me, is something allowing us to repeat ourselves for it's own gain, unbeknown st to us? does it matter?

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Some people should learn to take responsability for what they say.

What's the relevance of this post?

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Too vague. And if it were not already evident or detectable, we could never establish that we were indeed repeating outselves.... Depending on which context you're meaning.

What contexts do you think I mean? Talk about vague, this is probably the most vague post I've ever read.

Deduce for yourself why sincerity is important to a debate.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
^ That's my original post. I personally think the topic question itself needs to be put into perspective. Tired Hiker suggests that something unknown or beyond our senses is manipulating us into repeating ourselves. I find that a flawed premise to start with, since we can't establish anything like that, and it'd just degrade into fantasy work. Now if he's asking it from a social or psychological viewpoint: What makes us repeat our past mistakes as individuals and as humanity as a whole? it'd be a much better topic for discussion.

And I apologize if I came off harsh, Shak. You certainly haven't said anything to spite me in the past, and I don't want to be causing bad blood over a few careless words on my part. Simply put- it's not worth the effort to fret over. Like you said, back on topic.

I did not suggest that something unknown or beyond our senses is manipulating us into repeating ourselves, I simply inquired if that could be the case.

. . . and as far as 'not anything to fret over' I think it's too late to pull that card. You got yourself into this.

that is something that we will never know, so i dont really think too much about it

heres what i think i think that we are already dead but when someone dies they see their life flash before ther eyes right. well when we die i think we just relive our lives through the flashbacksand a de je vuis just us remembering that we have already lived this life, been here before
i dont know but it sounds good
think for yourself question authority

Originally posted by strangehero420
think for yourself question authority
not a clarion call for reinventing the wheel. Back up your interpretations.

THE WORST IS YET TO COME. so not everything has happened yet. More and more people are dying from diseases, and from starvation. new diseases are discovered here and there. Few of our young marines may perish tomorrow in Iraq, because of a bomb that has not yet exploded. The USA has not won the World Cup Yet , South Africa has not hosted it yet.And as a specie we have not bashed each other to extinction yet but we have gotten so close few times......

If everything has already happened then Shakyamunison's belief 'REINCARNATION' indeed is the only answer that would make the most sense in this whole thread

And if you don't believe in REINCARNATION it does not mean that it does not exist unless you can absolutely Prove that in fact it does not.

Originally posted by TheSpinner
THE WORST IS YET TO COME. so not everything has happened yet. More and more people are dying from diseases...etcB]

If everything is killing us...why is the global population going up while virtually every birth rate is going down?

Originally posted by Alliance
If everything is killing us...why is the global population going up while virtually every birth rate is going down?

I never said everything is killing us. I am giving examples of things still happening. and will still happen tomorrow. go read the about the two world wars that we have had so far. The European population was reduced so much after the second one. that governments were paying people to have more children. but that is just an example


If you read the whole thing you would know that my point of relevance is that: "IF EVERYTHING HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. THEN REINCARNATION IS THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES ANY SENSE. AND THAT THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN IT ARE WAY AHEAD OF US", and this is my relevant view on the question, that you should be debating and it will be my pleasure... Wining World Cup is not Killing us, I am actually enjoying every single game I can catch. So there goes your theory of me saying that everything is killing us. If you have misunderstood what I have meant; then I am to blame for part of it and you are to blame for the rest of it:

I am not perfect and I may have said something I don't really understand or I may have stated something that is not clear enough. But You are more than welcome to prove that my theory about REINCARNATION stated in BOLD does not stand any chance or does not make any sense.

well, two points then. If its so irrelevant, then why did you post all the superfelous information?

If you looked, I directly referenced your comment on disease.

Originally posted by Alliance
well, two points then. If its so irrelevant, then why did you post all the superfelous information? because as you are admitting it is still information....... and it all depends whether you are able to use it or not. examples my friend are not superfluous, they are there to help clarify things. At this rate,I think I should have put many more in there to get the job done.