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Which team takes the fight?

Overkill

for which team?

What's Kyp going to do, manipulate a black hole? I'd put Revan against him or maybe Revan and Traya and that would be an overkill.

What about DN Kyle?

I don't know, Kyp was second to only DN Luke although they were miles apart. However Revan and Traya could take him, as he hasn't shown much with a saber, and his force abilities, although superior, have nothing to do with a vs. fight.

Kyp is the strongest here, but Kyle may be enough of a weak link to allow Revan and Traya to win.

How fast could Kyp beat Traya alone?

Good question, assuming Traya can't do her instakill technique.... And Kyp isn't a master swordsman.. Who knows.

It all depends on Kyp beating Traya. from what I heard in another fourm, Kyle and Revan would duke it out for a long time. If kyp wins they could team up on revan. If Traya somehow wins, kyle's doomed.

Traya would pull out her trademark instantkill and the battle looks pretty bleak for the Jedi. I am pretty sure that Kyle would not be able to take it. The two would win, Durron being overwhelmed.

Dude, Traya's instakill is debateable in regards to not having a life bond to the Exile, so it's not a move she can just throw out.

What do you mean life bond?

She used the technique at Malachor 5 without the Exile's prescence.

I think that people here seriously underestimate Traya and think that she sucks without her instakill attack. Her ability to levitate lightsabers and use them against her enemies was incredible and evidence of strong mastery of the force. I'm going to go with the sith.

Originally posted by zephiel7
What do you mean life bond?

She used the technique at Malachor 5 without the Exile's prescence.

You're not understanding my point. My point is she gained that technique as a result of tying her life to the Exile. Hence her ability to use it, as a result of the Exile's ability to use it, however she learned to control it, just like Nihilus.

Any proof?

Yes, there was no evidence of her having the technique before her life bond.. Nihilus gained the technique because of the exile, but on a grander scale. The Exile had the tactic because he was a wound. So what would make you think Traya had it by herself.

There's no evidence Naga had the power of illusions before the hyperspace war or that Exar Kun could fight with a double bladed saber before he killed Vodo...what's your point?

Uh what? Nice way to make no point whatsoever. Now try rereading my thread and throwing in a logical argument.

TDTD... there is no evidence at all that Kreia ever needed the Exile to instaskill the Jedi master. That theory was just some old crap Fishy came up with that Janus disproved months before you ever came here.

The technique on Malachor, she waved her hand and 9 Sith assasins (they were force sensitives, or not?) died.

Her super drain seemed totally different.

That, and her terrible weakness / X amount of minutes for mediation before the confrontation.

Oh so you're saying that Nihilus developed the technique as a result of a wound in the force, the Exile developed the technique as a result from the wound in the force, yet Traya figured it out all by herself.. Pass what you're smoking.

Originally posted by tdtd
Oh so you're saying that Nihilus developed the technique as a result of a wound in the force, the Exile developed the technique as a result from the wound in the force, yet Traya figured it out all by herself.. Pass what you're smoking.

Hmm, you may have actually for once made a valid point. I'll give this some thought.

My life is now complete.

Yeah, I see no reason why Traya couldn't instikill Kyp and Revan'd beat Kyle, so the Sith win. Even if the instikill doesn't work Traya could likely hold off Kyp until Revan took out Kyle, and then Revan and Traya together'd pwn Kyp.

Originally posted by tdtd
Oh so you're saying that Nihilus developed the technique as a result of a wound in the force, the Exile developed the technique as a result from the wound in the force, yet Traya figured it out all by herself.. Pass what you're smoking.

The latter

Originally posted by tdtd
Oh so you're saying that Nihilus developed the technique as a result of a wound in the force, the Exile developed the technique as a result from the wound in the force, yet Traya figured it out all by herself.. Pass what you're smoking.

The evidence has been presented. If you do not choose to believe it.. then lodge a complaint to Obsidian. It is a technique born of the darkside, that Kreia has shown in two occasions, one in the prescence and one away from the Exile.

Actually, no evidence has been presented, my argument has yet to refuted, learn how to read before throwing around your KOTOR Bias.

Evidence. Hardly.

All you have backing up your arguments is mindless speculation. Speculation does not amount to proof. Get it through your thick skull.

On the otherhand I have provided proof in the form of IN GAME evidence. Yet you continue with mindless speculation that any real debater would treat with a grain of salt.

Keep it up buddy.

Actually my speculation is what we call logical, don't get so defensive fanboy. Just because my logical speculation successfully diminishes your character/s doesn't mean I'm speaking from mindless speculation. You haven't provided any proof, especially with your wonderful non canon gameplay. Read this again, since this makes sense to everybody else but you..
Originally posted by tdtd
Oh so you're saying that Nihilus developed the technique as a result of a wound in the force, the Exile developed the technique as a result from the wound in the force, yet Traya figured it out all by herself.. Pass what you're smoking.

Originally posted by tdtd
Actually my speculation is what we call logical, don't get so defensive fanboy. Just because my logical speculation successfully diminishes your character/s doesn't mean I'm speaking from mindless speculation. You haven't provided any proof, especially with your wonderful non canon gameplay. Read this again, since this makes sense to everybody else but you..

Non-Canon gameplay. How is DOCUMENTED gameplay non-canon? Then you would be stating something like Revan did not kill Malak, or Kyle did not kill Dessaan.

It was an in game cutscene, just as canon as Traya killing the three Jedi masters. Stay in denial if you can't accept the proof. All you are basing your arguments on is speculation. Again, no debater is going to take you seriously if all you are going on is speculation, and denying supported evidence from the opposition.

Once again, my quote is a very logical assumption, and you are the only one that's having trouble comprehending it, so I will post it once more for the reading impaired..
Originally posted by tdtd
Oh so you're saying that Nihilus developed the technique as a result of a wound in the force, the Exile developed the technique as a result from the wound in the force, yet Traya figured it out all by herself.. Pass what you're smoking.

Then Tdtd, explain how she drained all those apprentices of Sion at Malachor 5? I will be waiting for your reply.

What are you retarded? How many times do I have to post my quote. She tied her life to the exile, so in essence whatever powers the Exile has, she has. Of course she learned to control it which I give her props for, while the Exile just drains everybody randomly. It's moronic to think that Traya learned the technique, while all the evidence points towards my quote.

Does it say that the attack requires being a wound in the force?

Does it say that Traya needed X, X, and X prerequisites to pull it off? No.

You can't assume that Traya's attack will simply work without cooldown in the heat of battle against an equally (if not greater) skilled opponent. Because the assumption doesn't go both ways, we don't pass that off in a debate. The same way we don't say Nomi strips people of the force or Sadow simply blows their heads off.

At the same time Illustrious... Nihilus had the technique on the greater scale as a wound, the Exile had it as a wound, and Traya had no evidence of having it before tying her life to the exile, so it is just an assumption, albeit a logical one. Unless of course you consider the other two incompetent and Kreia a genius.

Yet you can't prove that Kreia didn't have it earlier, your providing us with nothing but speculation, so before your so stubbornly listen to your one sided logic, consider the entire situation.

What? So Kreia somehow used the Exile to drain all the Sith Apprentices of Sion at Malachor? Somehow when the Exile was still a fair few planets away?

tdtd, your prone to use one sided logic and pure speculation, just as you tried to downplay Kun's Amulet.

Why would I have to prove a negative? Just like GV, instead of trying to add your logic, you spend your whole time trying to disprove mine, which is logical speculation. Why don't you PROVE that Kreia could use the ability without the life bond. I have provided a logical argument, while you are throwing out nonsense. Yes Deception, the Exile and Nihilus could use the power because of the wound, but Kriea oh no, Kreia learned that.. Yea, very logical. I think I'll stick with my logical assumpton and wait til someone with half a brain offers an argument and stops wasting his time trying to disprove mine. And apparently you can't comprehend the concept of a life bond.. Yes, the exile DOESNT have to be right next to her for her to do her instakill, she ganed his powers through the life bond. Speculation, yes.. Logical, yes.. Anything to refute it? No. And mentioning Kun is irrelevant misdirection.. Thanks.

Originally posted by tdtd
Why would I have to prove a negative? Just like GV, instead of trying to add your logic, you spend your whole time trying to disprove mine, which is logical speculation. Why don't you PROVE that Kreia could use the ability without the life bond. I have provided a logical argument, while you are throwing out nonsense. Yes Deception, the Exile and Nihilus could use the power because of the wound, but Kriea oh no, Kreia learned that.. Yea, very logical. I think I'll stick with my logical assumpton and wait til someone with half a brain offers an argument and stops wasting his time trying to disprove mine. And apparently you can't comprehend the concept of a life bond.. Yes, the exile DOESNT have to be right next to her for her to do her instakill, she ganed his powers through the life bond. Speculation, yes.. Logical, yes.. Anything to refute it? No. And mentioning Kun is irrelevant misdirection.. Thanks.


http://www.rit.edu/~cgs2794/files/pub/crappers/listen.jpg

Actually GV, people have agreed with me, people have told you to STFU, so you're obviously in your own little world.

Originally posted by tdtd
What are you retarded? How many times do I have to post my quote. She tied her life to the exile, so in essence whatever powers the Exile has, she has. Of course she learned to control it which I give her props for, while the Exile just drains everybody randomly. It's moronic to think that Traya learned the technique, while all the evidence points towards my quote.

Your mindless speculation is quite hilarious actually.

I am calling it mindless because you continue with it, despite contrary evidence to support my argument (her instantkilling the sith apprentices at Malachor 5). You have absolutely zero evidence. That is why my friend, nobody is taking you seriously.

In otherwords, your argument completely and utterly worthless. I am not going to argue with someone who ignores obvious proof, and pretty much continues to keep their head stuck up their ass. Nobody else will either. Continue to ignore the proof if you must.

I'm gone.

Yes that's why I've provided logical arguments.. You have no support for your "argument" because you fail to understand the concept of a bond between two people. Your anger and personal attacks shows how sad your argument really is, and don't speak for other people, I believe "other people" have called you a KOTOR fanboy many a time. Come back once you understand the concept of having a life bond.

And I quote...

Originally posted by Illustrious
Does it say that the attack requires being a wound in the force?

Does it say that Traya needed X, X, and X prerequisites to pull it off? No.

You can't assume that Traya's attack will simply work without cooldown in the heat of battle against an equally (if not greater) skilled opponent. Because the assumption doesn't go both ways, we don't pass that off in a debate. The same way we don't say Nomi strips people of the force or Sadow simply blows their heads off.

It is still a valid theory, so unless you're going to say Traya>Exile and Nihilus, then you have to consider the fact that she is in the same position as Nihilus because of her life bond..

She disconnected herself during her fight with the Exile. And no, it's not a hasty generalization, it's based on evidence that states that unless C>A and B(which is not the case), then it is logical to assume C does it the same way A and B does it.. Try again.

Hmm...nice speculation here.

We don't know if Kreia needs the Exile around to instakill persons. The cutscene in which she defeats the Sith assassins. Well...did she use the very same attack against them ? Did she kill them ? Did she just knock them off ?

Somehow it appears kind of illogical to me that Kreia should have killed them but - for some reason - left those alive which later kneel down in front of the Exile when he enters the Academy, as well as those who are inside the Academy when the Exile walks through it.

And even if she can do it at will and in the middle of a fight - can she pull it off against people as powerful as Kyp Durron or Kyle Katarn when she apparently needed some time of preperation to use it on the Council Members in KotoR 2 ?

I really don't see that happening as well as I don't see Kyle and Kyp losing that fight...

We also have no clue if Traya's attack is one hundred percent infallible and unblockable...three shocked Jedi masters to Kyle and Kyp who've spent practically every week risking their lives?

Both agreeable..

Ye thats actually a valid point, and considering that its not even know whether or not Kreia's technique is used through the Exile.

It still IS a nice speculation, for all we know Kreia learned to control and harness the technique, but we see Nihilus have the same effect on people when he uses it. Only one who's different is the exile who randomly eats people.

Originally posted by tdtd
She disconnected herself during her fight with the Exile. And no, it's not a hasty generalization, it's based on evidence that states that unless C>A and B(which is not the case), then it is logical to assume C does it the same way A and B does it.. Try again.

The point is your sample space is too small for a reasonable inductive conclusion. If you are going to make a conclusion based on inductive reasoning, then it has to be shown for MANY cases, not just a few.

Do you even understand what it is that you type? I don't have to provide many cases, it's right there. Anyone created by the Exile(Nihilus), or has a real life bond with the exile(Kreia), can use the technique. I don't have to prove that she CANT use it, that's a negative, but you have to prove that she CAN use it without the Exile. Notice how pathetically weak she got after she let go of her life bond. Now again, unless youre sayng Kreia>Nihilus and the Exile, then it's a logical speculation that she had to have the force bond with the Exile.