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Who comes out alive?

Count Dooku of course!! Yoda and Mace will go for Sids because they see him as the biggest threat. Sids will take one out and lose to the other. Then Dooku will fight the leftover who will be tired after duelling Sids. Then Dooku pwns them. I think it is safe to say that Dooku would beat Yoda or Mace if they are tired out.

What? Both Yoda and Mace could alone take out Sidious, at least Yoda. And the other would go on Count Dooku of course, they would not let him rest.
If Yoda fights Sidious then he wins after an ok long fight, Dooku and Mace would probably still be fighting. Then when someone has finally won Yoda will kill that person.

Ah, the Fatal Four-way. Reminds me of watching WWE.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Count Dooku of course!! Yoda and Mace will go for Sids because they see him as the biggest threat. Sids will take one out and lose to the other. Then Dooku will fight the leftover who will be tired after duelling Sids. Then Dooku pwns them. I think it is safe to say that Dooku would beat Yoda or Mace if they are tired out.

Uh, Mace and Yoda are both capable of bringing down Dooku (Mace and Dooku would be pretty even, but I see Mace in the end). He's the weak link here. As well, why would they double-team Sidious and just let Count Dooku walk around sipping a martini? They wouldn't. Hell, even if they did, they would bring down Sidious fast, without a casualty, and then effectively pwn Dooku. Out of Yoda and Mace, I see Yoda taking it.

However, since I doubt that would happen, Mace takes on Dooku, Yoda takes on Sidious -- out of that fight, Yoda and Mace walk out, and then Yoda hands Mace a can of whoop ass. Even if they turn on each other, and it comes down to Mace vs. Yoda, and Dooku vs. Sidious. Sidious and Yoda win, and then Yoda kills Sidious.

So, all in all, I give this to Yoda.

Uh, Mace and Yoda are both capable of bringing down Dooku (Mace and Dooku would be pretty even, but I see Mace in the end).

I disagree. Pretty much every EU source I've come across states them as equals or Dooku as the slight superior.

Honestly, it depends on the setting. If Palpatine can manipulate the environment, I see him winning. On even ground I'm inclined to either say Dooku or Yoda.

Originally posted by Razielim
I disagree. Pretty much every EU source I've come across states them as equals or Dooku as the slight superior.

Such as?

I don't think that Yoda has enough force energy to last a fatal fourway. We see him panting heavily after his duel with Dooku, while Dooku is relatively calm and bearing in mind that Dooku had just fought Anakin and Obi-Wan. I see Sidious or Dooku taking this.

free for alls are really not smart threads, becasue a thousand things could happen.... one could fall to the dark side and then only one person would die

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
free for alls are really not smart threads, becasue a thousand things could happen.... one could fall to the dark side and then only one person would die

What...the...hell...are...you...talking...about?

Well there are too many variables to consider that make it hard to determine the outcome of the battle, but I too don't know what he was talking about in the 2nd part of his post.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Count Dooku of course!! Yoda and Mace will go for Sids because they see him as the biggest threat. Sids will take one out and lose to the other. Then Dooku will fight the leftover who will be tired after duelling Sids. Then Dooku pwns them. I think it is safe to say that Dooku would beat Yoda or Mace if they are tired out.

Yoda and mace will own sids after a double team Kill dooku themn Mace loses to Yoda so YODA

No double teaming.....Sidious or Mace wins. Yoda will probably get tired fast because of his style, while Sidious is just sitting back and blasting lightning. Dooku is too weak to fight anyone here but Sidious, but he's no match for Force Lightening so he can't even win there. Sidious takes this.

Where does this take place

Lets say Yoda went aginst Sids and Mace against Dooku. Dooku would beat Mace in a long hard fight. They are equal with the Count having a SLIGHT advantage. We could then assume that Sids manipulates the environment again and beats Yoda. If Dooku can then force a duel instead of a force match then he will beat Sids. If not Sids MIGHT win.

But that is just one of thousands of possible outcomes that you could get in a 4 way match.

Mace takes Sids Yoda takes Dooku Yoda takes Mace

Yoda doesn't win cause he will tire out the fastest due to his style of lightsaber combat (Ataru). He will be the first to go. Then it'll be a 3 way duel between Dooku, Mace and Sidious. Mace is the youngest and doesn't seem to tire very easily, but Sidious actually seems to get strongerduring a fight, instead of weaker. Dooku, although he is very old, has the enrgy of a younger man (I think Dark Rendezvous said that of a 40 year old, right?) still, I think of these three Dooku will be the next to tire out, and he will die. Then it'll be Sidious vs. Mace, which, IMO, could go either way, depending on who's more worn out.

This Depends on Location if the Senate Arena Sids

sids force throws yoda at mace dookus attention will be temporarily drawn to that yodas lightsaber probably damages mace dooku gets electrecuted by sids yoda and sids call truce and go to a bar where sids spikes yodas drink

confused1

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Count Dooku of course!! Yoda and Mace will go for Sids because they see him as the biggest threat. Sids will take one out and lose to the other. Then Dooku will fight the leftover who will be tired after duelling Sids. Then Dooku pwns them. I think it is safe to say that Dooku would beat Yoda or Mace if they are tired out. Nope,Dooku gets
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2986/pwned7sq.png
by the Dynamic duo,Sids didn't last long against Mace(barely survived against Yoda),if Yoda and Mace are combined,then they take Sids down,then since Dooku DID lose to Yoda(he knew it,thats why he ran away),then both Mace and Yoda take Dooku down.

What? Yoda would manage to take out one of those three, at the least, before dying. Assuming he even dies.



Which doesn't make too much sense. I haven't heard, or seen anywhere that he gets more energy as the fight prolongs. Especially since he'd have to exert a tremendous amount of energy to compete with these three.



Dooku uses Makashi, which doesn't use too much energy.



Haha. No.

^ Well said. It will probably be either Yoda or the Count who will win. Yoda because he is the overall strongest person there or Dooku because people will underestimate him. Plus Dooku wont tire out like everyone else because of his Makashi style. Sids and Mace are good but they would both lose to either Dooku or Yoda in close quarter combat.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2969/dookuowned5lv.jpg

Why? It's not like he's alot better than them. Dooku's probably the weakest out of the 4 and we all saw how close Yoda was to Dooku.

1. The Yoda vs. Sidious duel. Watch it, At the end he goes insane and actually fights better than he did at the beginning.
2. He's not going to be fighting all three of them 3 on 1, it won't be any harder than his duel with Yoda since he'll only be attacking one at a time.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
^ Well said. It will probably be either Yoda or the Count who will win. Yoda because he is the overall strongest person there or Dooku because people will underestimate him. Plus Dooku wont tire out like everyone else because of his Makashi style. Sids and Mace are good but they would both lose to either Dooku or Yoda in close quarter combat.

Did you not see dooku with himmm taking a deep breath after his fight with Yoda

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
Did you not see dooku with himmm taking a deep breath after his fight with Yoda

True. The point I am trying to make is he was tired after fighting Yoda, THE strongest and most powerful person in the jedi order. Anyone would be tired after that battle. I just dont think Dooku would be the first to tire out.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
True. The point I am trying to make is he was tired after fighting Yoda, THE strongest and most powerful person in the jedi order. Anyone would be tired after that battle. I just dont think Dooku would be the first to tire out.

Dooku will lose and if you think other wise visit my office until then STFU

Yoder wins...As usual

Originally posted by tdtd
Yoder wins...As usual

Agreed

Guys...Factors such as 'getting tired' or alliances being made are pure speculation. The only real way to choose a winner, is to choose the strongest of the four. And that would be either Sidious or Yoda.

YES YES!

And the fatal fourway is assumed to be on the same terrain, meaning no advantage(unless the thread says otherwise but I'm too lazy to look), and Yoda would take down Sidious if they were on the same level.

Why? Because he's superior to all three of them, he'd take out whoever he engaged in combat, hence "one at the least". Saying "Yoda would die first" calls for more of an explanation.



I've watched it, yet I still don't see how he "fights better" -- all he's doing is just matching the intensity level. He was not gaining strength or energy, he's exerting it.



And neither is Yoda, so why would he die first?



Where the hell is your office? Your parents' basement? I am not going down there.



How is getting tired speculation? All of these contenders are at the top of the PT era, and are somewhat close (Sidious/Yoda, Dooku/Mace), and will of course have to exert some energy to get the job done against their opponents.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Why? Because he's superior to all three of them, he'd take out whoever he engaged in combat, hence "one at the least". Saying "Yoda would die first" calls for more of an explanation.



I've watched it, yet I still don't see how he "fights better" -- all he's doing is just matching the intensity level. He was not gaining strength or energy, he's exerting it.



And neither is Yoda, so why would he die first?



Where the hell is your office? Your parents' basement? I am not going down there.



How is getting tired speculation? All of these contenders are at the top of the PT era, and are somewhat close (Sidious/Yoda, Dooku/Mace), and will of course have to exert some energy to get the job done against their opponents.

Its a Joke

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
Its a Joke

Perhaps you didn't catch mine?

Originally posted by Motoko Sama



How is getting tired speculation? All of these contenders are at the top of the PT era, and are somewhat close (Sidious/Yoda, Dooku/Mace), and will of course have to exert some energy to get the job done against their opponents.

Theorizing who will get tired first (etc...) is pure speculation.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Perhaps you didn't catch mine?

Yes I did

It was soooooooo funny

They are all very close to each other in saber combat but Yoda remains the best. So he will either fight Sidious, or Mace at the end and win.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Theorizing who will get tired first (etc...) is pure speculation.

True, but you can expect the remaining two to not be in the condition as when they entered the fight. Nonetheless, I'll agree that it is speculation as to whom actually tires out first, and how much energy they will be using.

Yippie, so the drug addicted muppet wins.

Yup

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
True, but you can expect the remaining two to not be in the condition as when they entered the fight. Nonetheless, I'll agree that it is speculation as to whom actually tires out first, and how much energy they will be using.


Yeah, ofcourse they will get tired during the fight. But since we are unable to determine who will get 'more' tired, the whole thing is a moot point.

It's not like he'd pwn them all one on one, sure he's the best, tied with Sidious, IMO, but they're all pretty much even. It's not like the difference between Ragnos and ROTJ Luke or anything like your making it out to be.

I didn't mean fight better, I meant he seems to gain energy rather than fatigue.

Cause he'd tire out the fastest, don't you agree that of these four he'd be the quickest to fatigue?

Don't know about that, his stamina seems to be at a world class soccer level.

But not as good as Dooku, Mace os Sidious's.

When did I ever say there was a vast power difference?

Perhaps, through your superior reading skillz, you noticed I said:

"All of these contenders are at the top of the PT era, and are somewhat close (Sidious/Yoda, Dooku/Mace), and will of course have to exert some energy to get the job done against their opponents."



He was matching the intensity level of the fight like I was saying.



Never said he wouldn't be.

However, he would be able to take out any one of these three, at the least, before his fatigue would even play a downing factor over him. Like I've been saying for the past posts, whoever faces off against him first will lose.

You seem to think that he will definately kill at least one of them despite the fact that he will be the first to fatigue. Since he's only a tiny bit stronger than the weakest of his three opponents it's foolish to say "For sure he will kill AT LEAST one before going down."

Okay, I think we misunderdtand each other. If he faces someone one-on-one first he will win, unless than someone is Sidious, in which case it could go either way. In my scenario all four attack everyone, it doesn't split into 2 one on one duels with the winners fighting.

Actually it wouldn't go either way. If they are on the safe surface it is more than logical to assume that Yoda>Sidious, since Yoda=Sidious with Sidious getting the higher ground.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Like I've been saying for the past posts, whoever faces off against him first will lose.

Like Dooku and Sidious huh?

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Like Dooku and Sidious huh?

Yeah, assuming Dooku doesn't run, or leave, and they are on even ground. Perhaps you didn't notice those factors throughout their fights.

Yoda would tire out before he would get the chance. You seem to think that it would be a simple fight with opponent A and B squaring off and opponent C and D squaring off and the winners of those two fights squaring off. That's not how it would actually work out. It would actually be a very unorthodox fight and the winner would have to be someone who does not fatigue easily and who is intelligent enough to strategise the fight well enough to come out on top.

No, Sidious > Yoda on high ground, which you'd have seen if you had watched ROTS. Sidious uses the high ground to his advantage in their duel and he gained the upper hand for a while. Even on flat ground it's be close as hell, they seemed even in Palpatine's Office.

So Yoda can't beat Dooku one on one? He can't beat Mace one on one? He can't beat Sidious one on one? With no terrain advantage, or running?

Seriously, if you're going to make a post, make it one worthwhile, instead of wasting a post with bullshit.



How would it work out then? Have you ever seen a Fatal Four-way happen? Thought not. So, you tell me how it would "work out" instead of critizing my thoughts. It's called speculation.



Really? Everyone fatigues, especially in this case since they are all close in power. If you read the AOTC script, Dooku was actually getting tired IIRC.

Motoko dude we're just going to have t agree to disagree.

Originally posted by darthsith19
No, Sidious > Yoda on high ground, which you'd have seen if you had watched ROTS. Sidious uses the high ground to his advantage in their duel and he gained the upper hand for a while. Even on flat ground it's be close as hell, they seemed even in Palpatine's Office.

Wrong.. Sidious=Yoda on higher ground. Yoda did indeed disarm Sidious, which is why Sidious got the higher ground. And where does it show him gaining upper hand? The part where he couldn't stop a coming pod, or the part where his lightning was killing him?

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
So Yoda can't beat Dooku one on one? He can't beat Mace one on one? He can't beat Sidious one on one? With no terrain advantage, or running?

Seriously, if you're going to make a post, make it one worthwhile, instead of wasting a post with bullshit.



How would it work out then? Have you ever seen a Fatal Four-way happen? Thought not. So, you tell me how it would "work out" instead of critizing my thoughts. It's called speculation.



Really? Everyone fatigues, especially in this case since they are all close in power. If you read the AOTC script, Dooku was actually getting tired IIRC.

1 on 1, Yoda can beat any of these competitors.. Fatigue or not.

Originally posted by tdtd
1 on 1, Yoda can beat any of these competitors.. Fatigue or not.

I know, that was the whole point of asking.

What does IIRC stand for?

If I recall correctly.

Originally posted by tdtd
Wrong.. Sidious=Yoda on higher ground. Yoda did indeed disarm Sidious, which is why Sidious got the higher ground. And where does it show him gaining upper hand? The part where he couldn't stop a coming pod, or the part where his lightning was killing him?
Does it say in the script that Yoda disarmed him? It shows him gaining the upper hand when he is chucking pods madly at Yoda and Yoda is barely able to dodge them. When he outs Yoda on the defense. The lightning duel at the very end was even. Overall I'd say Sidious and Yoda are pretty much exactly even.

Since when did Yoda disarm Sidious?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Does it say in the script that Yoda disarmed him? It shows him gaining the upper hand when he is chucking pods madly at Yoda and Yoda is barely able to dodge them. When he outs Yoda on the defense. The lightning duel at the very end was even. Overall I'd say Sidious and Yoda are pretty much exactly even.


It does indeed say it in the script, and I think it was in the novel, but I'm not sure. And again, do I have to explain the concept of gravity for you and the sheer testament of Yoda's power as opposed to Sidious'? Sidious is chucking them DOWN, while Yoda has to dodge them. The fact that he can stop one and chuck it right back up is impressive enough, as you can see Sidious not being able to stop it. And the lightning duel at the end had Sidious shitting his pants before they both fall.

Yoda can take Sidious on any fair map.

After a long hard fight. Yoda is Sid's superior, but not by much.

yup

tdtd, watch again. At first Sidious lifted not one, but three pods up at the same time without even moving his hands!

Actually, he was moving his hands, and gravity states that it's harder to stop 1 and chug it back up, than just throwing 3 down.

Ah, here we go again. The whole "Sidious Yoda pod" deal. Wasn't this crap already squared away with in another thread?

Many many months ago

Whereas Yoda showed a great deal of strength stopping the ONE pod coming at him, Sids showed the same if not more lifting several pods at once without even looking at them or any strain appearing on his face. If I recall correctly you can see alot of effort on Yodas face when he stopped the pod. And it was in the air. Sids ripped out the pods from their docking bays. Yes gravity does play a big part I dont think you can say Yoda showed a greater show of force strength than Sids. They were on par with Sids probably having a slight advantage. However the outcome of the fight was a stalemate and on different terrain Yoda might get the victory 6/10 times.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Whereas Yoda showed a great deal of strength stopping the ONE pod coming at him, Sids showed the same if not more lifting several pods at once without even looking at them or any strain appearing on his face. If I recall correctly you can see alot of effort on Yodas face when he stopped the pod. And it was in the air. Sids ripped out the pods from their docking bays. Yes gravity does play a big part I dont think you can say Yoda showed a greater show of force strength than Sids. They were on par with Sids probably having a slight advantage. However the outcome of the fight was a stalemate and on different terrain Yoda might get the victory 6/10 times.
I see the concept of gravity eludes you... a pity.

No. I understand gravity perfectly (if you read my post you can see I mentioned it) im just saying that lifting THREE pods out of their docking bay with relative ease and with gravity on your side is a better show of force than stopping just ONE pod that wasnt attached to anything. Yes Yoda had gravity against him but that doesnt mean that he is better than Sids.It merely means that he could be, at best, on par with Sids.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
No. I understand gravity perfectly (if you read my post you can see I mentioned it) im just saying that lifting THREE pods out of their docking bay with relative ease and with gravity on your side is a better show of force than stopping just ONE pod that wasnt attached to anything. Yes Yoda had gravity against him but that doesnt mean that he is better than Sids.It merely means that he could be, at best, on par with Sids.

At best? Since when is stopping a pod coming at you full-force less impressive than some simple telekenesis? I suppose Dooku > Yoda because he managed to let that cylinder fall, and Yoda had to stop it.

You were disrpoven time, and time again in an old thread where this was settled.

Oh, and you still haven't grasped the concept of gravity. Mentioning it doesn't mean you understand it.

mace would win

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
I see the concept of gravity eludes you... a pity.

Yeah, I can see Mace winning this since Yoda's form causes him to be tired.

Im not saying that Yoda isnt as strong as Sids. Im saying that in that particular scene with the pods Sids showed a better show of force. Ripping three pods at once out of their bays and lifting them above your head (which involves gravity being against you) and throwing them without having to look at them and without strain is better than stopping ONE pod coming at you with gravity against you. And you can see Yoda struggling to stop the pod coming at him. Both participants had gravity against him, Yoda possibly more so than Sids, but Yoda stopping it isnt as difficult as you are making it out to be.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im not saying that Yoda isnt as strong as Sids. Im saying that in that particular scene with the pods Sids showed a better show of force. Ripping three pods at once out of their bays and lifting them above your head (which involves gravity being against you) and throwing them without having to look at them and without strain is better than stopping ONE pod coming at you with gravity against you. And you can see Yoda struggling to stop the pod coming at him. Both participants had gravity against him, Yoda possibly more so than Sids, but Yoda stopping it isnt as difficult as you are making it out to be.

Originally posted by Razielim
After a long hard fight. Yoda is Sid's superior, but not by much.

I agree Yoda>Sidious

Or not. Back to reality of course. Yoda would come out of this the victor.

Well count dooku isn't 800 years old. Yet yoda would still win.

I think you are misenterpreting what I am saying.I am not disputing the fact that Yoda is probably the overall strongest person their and in a one on one battle he might be any of the others. However his skills and strengths arent suited to a four way battle like the Counts are.
This battle will use a heck of a lot of energy. Dookus Makashi style uses minimum while Yodas Ataru uses heaps. Yoda will probably be the first to tire because of his age and his duelling style.
Yodas style involves a lot of complicated flips and swirls. These are very effective against ONE opponent or someone with a blaster but definetly not three other highly skilled jedi/sith. Dooku however is a master of Makashi, the lightsaber vs lightsaber style. He was trained for this sort of battle and will excel at it.
Finally Dooku has extensive knowledge of the dark side. He duels with one hand so can fight and force lightning an opponent at the same time. Yes we saw Yoda simply throw his lightning aside but Dooku was at least 10 metres away and neither had their lightsaber out. The lightning would more than likely make contact in a duel or at least divert Yodas attention so the Count can deliver the killing blow.

tdtd are you actually going to provide a good argument for Yoda? Or are you even going to rebutt any of my points? If not then please stop trolling as you have no right to do so.

I love how the newbies use words they have no concept of, only because they've seen them used before.. No I won't read your thread because I have no desire.. It's very simple, a fatal four way.. And Yoda is the greatest of these, the fastest, the one with the most force abilities or at the least, as good as Sidious in the force. In saber combat, I would put Sidious as last, and Mace=Yoda. In the force, you have Yoda=Sidious, or maybe better. You're not going to see Sidious chucking pods at the other 3 contenders without getting slashed. At the end it would be either Yoda and Mace or Yoda and Sidious, and Yoda will win.

So you can't rebutt any of my points tdtd? That's what I thought. And I said GOOD argument for Yoda tdtd.

You mean refute? No I haven't read your post, I'll get to it.

Rebut and refute have the same meaning.

I don't know what "rebutt" is..

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Rebut and refute have the same meaning.

You originally posted "Rebutt" which is why I asked.

Quit arguing semantics. So you're basically telling me that you can't refute my points? Ok, that's what I thought.

Uh do you understand what the hell semantics are LOL.. Quit using other people's terms, especially if you can't comprehend them. I told you I have not read your thread yet and I will get to it, so stop bitching.

You said that about 50 minutes ago.

What is your point exactly? Oh that's right, you don't have one.

Originally posted by tdtd
Wrong.. Sidious=Yoda on higher ground. Yoda did indeed disarm Sidious, which is why Sidious got the higher ground. And where does it show him gaining upper hand? The part where he couldn't stop a coming pod, or the part where his lightning was killing him?

As I offered to Illustrious, it speaks well for Sidious - if he managed to escape Yoda, unarmed, to get the higher ground.

You'll note that Sidious and Yoda were on equal ground in the office, and I did not see the little green master overpower Sidious. I also saw that, as they fought on the Chancellor's podium, Sidious maintained the central position and then even managed to retake it and force Yoda back to Mas Amedda's chair. Sidious also managed to maintain the central position and forced Yoda to do his acrobatics to try and move Sidious from the podium .

However - Yoda's subtle superiority was shown when he managed to break all of their saberlocks, and then disarmed Sidious.

Sorry, Tdtd, I do believe Yoda would defeat Sidious - but not with any ease, and nor is he dramatically superior to the Sith Lord.

For the thread - I say Yoda wins.

In the novelization, Yoda does realize he is inferior to the dark lord

Yeah, Sidious seems to be the most powerful out of all four of them.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
In the novelization, Yoda does realize he is inferior to the dark lord

The novelization's documentary of the battle differs from the movie's own version. The movies > novels in canon.

In my opinion, Yoda is a SLIGHT superior to ROTS Sidious. A lot of the people around here think that Yoda would own him. I completely disagree - but I do believe that he is slightly superior in saber combat and in the Force.

Originally posted by Escape81
The novelization's documentary of the battle differs from the movie's own version. The movies > novels in canon.

In my opinion, Yoda is a SLIGHT superior to ROTS Sidious. A lot of the people around here think that Yoda would own him. I completely disagree - but I do believe that he is slightly superior in saber combat and in the Force.

I agree with this.

However, the novelization doesn't contradict the movies in regard to Yoda's thoughts, especially after the battle

Yet it contradicts many other aspects of the movie, and hence denounces itself as a credible source. If we would pull only the acceptable pieces out of novelizations and such, Wiki would be fully canon.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
I agree with this.

Well, it's just common sense. I wrote a huge walkthrough of the Yoda vs. Sidious fight, on one of Janus's private websites - it was mostly ignored.

The fact is:

- Sidious managed to land the first blow to Yoda during the battle in his office .

- Sidious managed to keep up with Yoda blow-for-blow, and managed to maintain the central dominant position for the majority of the battle there, and forced Yoda back into Mas Amedda's seat.

- Sidious managed to rip four pods from their moorings, and draw them back, in direct defiance with gravity - whereas Yoda had difficulty stopping one, which was tossed in slope-form.

- Sidious then managed to disarm Yoda when Yoda followed Sidious onto the final pod.

All in all - it's close between Yoda and Sidious.

It doesn't change the fact that the information in the novelizations, especially ones that received a page by page edit from Lucas, carry weight in the EU when they don't contradict. They're still higher levels of canon than pretty much anything else and are usually held as G-canon

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It doesn't change the fact that the information in the novelizations, especially ones that received a page by page edit from Lucas, carry weight in the EU when they don't contradict. They're still higher levels of canon than pretty much anything else and are usually held as G-canon

Since the novel and the movie deal with the same events, if the novel differs even slightly from the movie then it is invalid. Any thoughts, and ideas expressed in the novel that werent present in the movie are rendered invalid including Yodas admission of failure. Its sad I know...

Why are you on my nuts? I haven't posted in this thread and when I do I will let you know. Just because you can write a novel doesn't mean there is any logic behind it, as in your other posts.. Trust me, hop off my junk, I will let you know.

Originally posted by Escape81
- Sidious managed to land the first blow to Yoda during the battle in his office .

First of all, Sidious' blow was quite a surprise. And when Yoda retorted with a powerful force push, I believe Sidious was the one who tried to flee.



Sidious had the high ground for a large percentage of that fight and he was still on par with Yoda. BTW, at one point, the final draft of the script mentions Sidious being doomed to defeat.



Sidious had gravity on his side. He was throwing them DOWN. And the ONE pod that Yoda had thrown back had Sidious jumping, barely escaping the Pods destructive path. Notice how Sidious didn't stop Yoda's pod.



"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed. "


It looks like Yoda managed to disarm Sidious and nearly defeat him.

Originally posted by Antediluvian
First of all, Sidious' blow was quite a surprise. And when Yoda retorted with a powerful force push, I believe Sidious was the one who tried to flee.



Sidious had the high ground for a large percentage of that fight and he was still on par with Yoda. BTW, at one point, the final draft of the script mentions Sidious being doomed to defeat.



Sidious had gravity on his side. He was throwing them DOWN. And the ONE pod that Yoda had thrown back had Sidious jumping, barely escaping the Pods destructive path. Notice how Sidious didn't stop Yoda's pod.



"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed. "


It looks like Yoda managed to disarm Sidious and nearly defeat him.

Good post, very accurate.

Umm, no, GV, the novel is more legitimate EU than most anything else

yes

Originally posted by Antediluvian
First of all, Sidious' blow was quite a surprise. And when Yoda retorted with a powerful force push, I believe Sidious was the one who tried to flee.

I'm sorry, but I don't see where the surprise came from. Sidious did not raise his hands quickly. I just watched the scene. He slowly raised his hands from his lap, while telling Yoda: "Now you will experience the full power of the Dark Side. "

Sidious blasted his lightning - and as it encroached on Yoda, the Jedi had an expression similar to the one Sidious had later on in the duel, on top of the pod.

"Oh crap".



Sidious had the high ground for most of the fight, yes. But I am talking about when they fight on the Chancellor's podium, Palpatine starts off in the Chancellor's seat, and Yoda starts off in Mas Amedda's - which is below Palpatine. As the camera draws back, and the podium descends, it shows Yoda forcing Palpatine to Sly Moore's chair, and Yoda taking the Chancellor's - but then it shows Sidious forcing Yoda back into Mas Amedda's chair once again.

My point is that Yoda was not utterly dominating the lightsaber duel, and was forced back by Palpatine and exchanged the offensive and defensive roles at various times.



Now, you're completely missing the point. Sidious ripped four pods out of their moorings, Sorgo, and then drew all four back into the air, behind him - in direct defiance with gravity.

Then he dropped the pods.



Point being? I have already said that Palpatine was disarmed by Yoda. My quote was that, once the pod chucking contest was over, and Sidious fled to the lower pod - Yoda followed and ignited his lightsaber. Sidious then blasted it out of his hands - disarming him.

Secondly, the quote is: "it looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed". It didn't say that he was doomed.



Again, point being? I've already established that Yoda > Sidious in all categories. But my point is, it is only by a few hairs and not leagues.

Yup..

This is weird...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Umm, no, GV, the novel is more legitimate EU than most anything else

Your missing the point, it would be quite legitimate if it was the only source covering ROTS, but unfortunately the movie also covers those events and so overrules the novel completely and utterly.

Except the parts that don't contradict fly free

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Except the parts that don't contradict fly free


No....


The movie was the way ROTS happened. The end. Anything more that the novel adds, didnt happen in the movie, and so *is* contradicting the movie simply because it didnt happen in the movie.

Er . . . Not so much.

The ROTS Novel has many contradictions in it.

That's not shared by the powers that be in LFL. The movie novelizations have ALWAYS been held above the eU

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's not shared by the powers that be in LFL. The movie novelizations have ALWAYS been held above the eU


And the movies have always been held above the novelizations.

Big deal. Story info, character's thoughts, off screen things in the novelizations? They count

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Big deal. Story info, character's thoughts, off screen things in the novelizations? They count

I just explained why they didnt.


"The movie was the way ROTS happened. The end. Anything more that the novel adds, didnt happen in the movie, and so *is* contradicting the movie simply because it didnt happen in the movie."

And the official word: The novelization counts. by that logic, the entire EU doesn't count

Originally posted by Escape81
I'm sorry, but I don't see where the surprise came from. Sidious did not raise his hands quickly. I just watched the scene. He slowly raised his hands from his lap, while telling Yoda: "Now you will experience the full power of the Dark Side. "

Sidious blasted his lightning - and as it encroached on Yoda, the Jedi had an expression similar to the one Sidious had later on in the duel, on top of the pod.

"Oh crap".



Sidious had the high ground for most of the fight, yes. But I am talking about when they fight on the Chancellor's podium, Palpatine starts off in the Chancellor's seat, and Yoda starts off in Mas Amedda's - which is below Palpatine. As the camera draws back, and the podium descends, it shows Yoda forcing Palpatine to Sly Moore's chair, and Yoda taking the Chancellor's - but then it shows Sidious forcing Yoda back into Mas Amedda's chair once again.

My point is that Yoda was not utterly dominating the lightsaber duel, and was forced back by Palpatine and exchanged the offensive and defensive roles at various times.



Now, you're completely missing the point. Sidious ripped four pods out of their moorings, Sorgo, and then drew all four back into the air, behind him - in direct defiance with gravity.

Then he dropped the pods.



Point being? I have already said that Palpatine was disarmed by Yoda. My quote was that, once the pod chucking contest was over, and Sidious fled to the lower pod - Yoda followed and ignited his lightsaber. Sidious then blasted it out of his hands - disarming him.

Secondly, the quote is: "it looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed". It didn't say that he was doomed.



Again, point being? I've already established that Yoda > Sidious in all categories. But my point is, it is only by a few hairs and not leagues.

Nicely said.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And the official word: The novelization counts. by that logic, the entire EU doesn't count


How? Does the entire EU cover the same events the movies do? No?

oy

Are the events of the EU in the movies? Then they dont' count

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences."

Originally posted by Escape81
I'm sorry, but I don't see where the surprise came from. Sidious did not raise his hands quickly. I just watched the scene. He slowly raised his hands from his lap, while telling Yoda: "Now you will experience the full power of the Dark Side. "

Sidious blasted his lightning - and as it encroached on Yoda, the Jedi had an expression similar to the one Sidious had later on in the duel, on top of the pod.

Yeah, an expression of surprise. Yoda was defending more serious torrents of lightning from Sidious throughout that fight. If he had expected that one, he would have blocked it instead of letting himself get dealt out. It's logically incorrect to think he would let himself get hit by it if he knew Sidious was going to do it. Especially considering he blocked the rest of them throughout the entire fight.

Yoda: You can have just this one hit, Sids.
Sidious: Why thank you, Yoda.

Scrrrrrrrrrrrrrript! Final draft, if I may note:

"MAS AMEDDA leaves the room. PALPATINE approaches a surprised YODA.







They forced each other into chairs a few times. Doesn't this indicate that their power levels are at a minor on par at that point?



Well, Sidious didn't spend alot of time dueling him because this is what happened when he did spend time dueling with him:

"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber."

That's when Yoda and Sidious were dueling with Lightsabers, By the way.







I wonder who had a more difficult time - Sidious, whom kept the Pods level with gravity even if in direct defiance and then dropping them. Or Yoda, whom had to hurl one directly back up at the most difficult point of gravity? You can't tell me it was harder for Sidious to keep a Pod level for a few seconds and then drop them compared to hurling one back up from a low point of gravity. Please.

And Sidious ended that Pod battle once Yoda threw a single Pod back towards him.





Cool, and after Sidious blasted the Lightsaber out of his hands, Yoda caught the lightning and absorbed it. He then replied with a powerful Force push.


Of course! If he was doomed, he would have lost. The point is he was losing at that point.





But of course. Just trying to establish some other points.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Are the events of the EU in the movies? Then they dont' count

No, that is the flaw in your reasoning. The rest of the EU doesnt cover the same events as in the movies, and so there is no contradiction from a higher level of canon. The ROTS novel however covers the same events as ROTS, or the same 'perspective' of the SW universe, and whatever the novel has that differs in any way from the perspective of the movie is a contradiction of the movie.



I dont mean to be rude, but Im getting tired of repeating this for you.

The ROTS Novel isn't Canon. People need to realize that. It has contradictions in it that go directly against the movie. You can't just say "Oh, but there are other parts in it."

If some of these others parts are contradicting, what makes you think that the things mentioned in the Novel that aren't mentioned in the movie are valid?

They're not.

Regardless, it can still be applied to the EU. the canon policy is it's above the rest of the eU, but under the films. And if one aspect contradicts, a lot of older EU is getting hurled out the window

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Regardless, it can still be applied to the EU. the canon policy is it's above the rest of the eU, but under the films. And if one aspect contradicts, a lot of older EU is getting hurled out the window

If you can pick out parts of a source that contradicts the movie at several turns and state them as canon and legit, then Wiki articles would be of a higher canon than every piece of EU outside of the novels. No, those books just don't work.

What you're saying does make sense Faunus and that is how canon should work, but doesn't Lucas say that as long something is not contradicted by a higher form of canon, it is counted as canon.

Taking upon a force battle
Yoda would beat all 3
I'd say Dooku and Mace would be even

If lightsabre batter
Sidius beat Yoda
Dooku beat Mace
Mace beat Sidius
Dooku beat Yoda

I think either Dooku or Mace would win the lightsabre

How would Dooku beat Yoda in a saber to saber battle when Yoda kicked his ass twice, even when Dooku had it all prepared and a trap for him?
How will Sidious beat Yoda in a saber to saber battle when Yoda disarmed Sidious in their last battle?

Yoda disarmed Sidius in sabre combat? I did not see that in the movie....

Well, I did mention that Yoda would beat all 3 in a force battle. But in epi 2, Dooku puts up a good fight against Yoda. I'm sure that if it lasted longer if Dooku didn't have to dash to save the weapon plans for Sidius, I think he would have slayed Yoda. Remember, Dooku is like the master of form ii combat which is designed specifically for sabre combat

Either Yoda or Sidious ultimately win this. In in all out battle, either of them would likely be able to overcome Mace or Dooku. Then, of course, they'd duke it out. Ultimately, I personally think that Yoda would win - but that is, of course, just my opinion, as nothing indicates he would win.

Chris, Yoda disarms Sidious in the script. Though the movie never shows this, it is "possible" that it happened during the footage we never saw.

Originally posted by Chris_Henners
Yoda disarmed Sidius in sabre combat? I did not see that in the movie....

Well, I did mention that Yoda would beat all 3 in a force battle. But in epi 2, Dooku puts up a good fight against Yoda. I'm sure that if it lasted longer if Dooku didn't have to dash to save the weapon plans for Sidius, I think he would have slayed Yoda. Remember, Dooku is like the master of form ii combat which is designed specifically for sabre combat



Yoda disarmed Sidious in the novel, and even in the movie he doesn't have a lightsaber for 1/2 the fight....



Um...no, Dooku ran twice, even when he had the high ground. (During the clone wars). Dooku was beaten 2 times, it was not because of the plans, it was because he was loosing.

Mace wins. His style is perfect for this type of match.

Originally posted by Apollo5Cloud
Mace wins. His style is perfect for this type of match.

How so? This isn't just a "lightsaber" match. Palpatine and Yoda are both superior to Mace in the Force, and would defeat him and Count Dooku in an all out fight.

They are all roughly the same in skill and power, most people agree on this. The instruction manual for KOTOR2 states that not only Makashi, but Juyo as well is 'very great' against lightsaber wielding opponents. Vaapad is an extended and 'completed' form of Juyo and is stated as the deadliest form which leads me to believe that it is superior to Makashi in terms of saber dueling. It is also good against multiple opponents while Ataru is poor and Makashi is fair. Bare in mind that my knowledge of SW is pretty limited and my opinions are only based on 2 sources - the movies and the instruction manual for KOTOR2.

BTW, when in the manual it says 'the force' under combat situation, does it mean defending against the force or utilising the force with your duels?

Yoda is the most likely candidate to win the fight.

Originally posted by Apollo5Cloud
They are all roughly the same in skill and power, most people agree on this. The instruction manual for KOTOR2 states that not only Makashi, but Juyo as well is 'very great' against lightsaber wielding opponents. Vaapad is an extended and 'completed' form of Juyo and is stated as the deadliest form which leads me to believe that it is superior to Makashi in terms of saber dueling. It is also good against multiple opponents while Ataru is poor and Makashi is fair. Bare in mind that my knowledge of SW is pretty limited and my opinions are only based on 2 sources - the movies and the instruction manual for KOTOR2.

BTW, when in the manual it says 'the force' under combat situation, does it mean defending against the force or utilising the force with your duels?

Ataru might be "poor" against multiple opponents, but Yoda is almost untouchable with a lightsaber. I dont think any of them will successfully land a deadly blow upon him.

Plus, they wont engage in a 1v1v1v1 free for all. I see it as a tournament. 2v2 and victors fight each other to the death.

Why? He may be the most powerful out of the four (and that is debatable) but his style is totally not suitable for this type of fight. It utilises way too much energy and this would be a very tiring and long fight, and Ataru is stated to not be effective against multiple enemies.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Ataru might be "poor" against multiple opponents, but Yoda is almost untouchable with a lightsaber. I dont think any of them will successfully land a deadly blow upon him.

That's right because Ataru is known for its great defence.