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who wins?

I'm not sure but I think this has been done already

Originally posted by IcePunk
I'm not sure but I think this has been done already

I am pretty sure your right

this is probably the 3rd or 4th time..cloud won all of them..

yeah...he always was favored when it came to popularity and his creation in the games.

i like squall more but cloud wins

Squall could win some. The guy was no pussy.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Squall could win some. The guy was no pussy. true that

he wasn't but compared to cloud he was a push over.

Why? Cloud is the real push over here. The guy couldn't even make it to SOLDIER. Squall became the commanding officer of SeeD at 17 years of age etc. Cloud simply has one fancy movie which lets him perform like a maniac. All we have to compare fight-wise are Squall's FFVIII intro which is way, way, way dated when compared to Advent Children.

presently 23 year old cloud vs. a schoolboy who complains when oppertunity knocks...cloud pwns the moody git..

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Why? Cloud is the real push over here. The guy couldn't even make it to SOLDIER. Squall became the commanding officer of SeeD at 17 years of age etc. Cloud simply has one fancy movie which lets him perform like a maniac. All we have to compare fight-wise are Squall's FFVIII intro which is way, way, way dated when compared to Advent Children.

Have to agree with prime here , he was lucky taking out Sephiroth the first time and the last was more of a battle of wills then pure strength.

Squall goes Lionheart on clouds ass.....

At least by the time Squall finished the Ultimecia ordeal he managed to smile and get over his mood-swings. Unlike Cloud who decided to ignore the strength he had in order to become emo and whine/complain about how he didn't save Aerith or Zack. Going with that Squall is far more mature than Cloud if you think about it. Squall gets over his trauma and mood swings when he is 17. At 23 Cloud is still moody, depressed and emotionally unstable.

Wow, this is utter bullshit.

You're calling Cloud an Emo? Let's see here:

"Though he remembers practically nothing of this past, it causes him to develop into an emotionally detached, highly cynical and introverted boy (his original goal is to go through life without any emotional links or dependencies, because "Others won't always be there. You can only rely on yourself".)"

"Squall is notable for being primarily a loner. Even compared to the originally indifferent Cloud Strife of Final Fantasy VII, he comes off as cold and deeply cynical."

By the time Cloud hits FF7 at the end, his emotional stability is at a status of OK!

That would be why he smiles at the end of AC when Zack and Aerith dissipate into the wind.

I've seen Cloud perform far more impressive features than Squall, even if Squall didn't have a movie.

And someone called FFVIII dated?

Hmm . . . Didn't FFVII surface before FFVIII? Why, it did. The game came before FFVIII and still showed Cloud to have extraordinary powers and the reason he was barely able to defeat Sephiroth is because Sephiroth was the more powerful opponent.


I mean, the first time Cloud finished Sephiroth, it was with the help of his friends. The second time, Sephiroth could have stabbed Cloud in the face and killed him, but went for the arm and spared him for some odd reason.


I don't see how Squall has this enormous chance of pwning Cloud, especially seeing as they're both emotionally unstable and fairly powerful.

I could see it go either way.

I never implied Squall would win 10 out of 10. Quite in fact I said Squall could win some given he is no pushover. The reason I stated FFVIII is dated when compared to AC is because many youngsters are simply awed by flashiness. In gamefaqs I've argued with people who defended Squall in a vs. with Cloud, but when the movie was released they automatically changed sides because Cloud took on Bahamut Shin/Sin(whatever it's actually called), etc. Which is no big thing given Seifer has mutilated Odin. What extraordinary things did Cloud perform in FFVII that put him above Squall so much? What exactly? Why did I stress Cloud's emotions? Because someone started mentioning how Squall was, and I quote, a "moody git." Which is funny because at the end of FFVII Cloud is ok with who he is, but when AC starts Cloud's all of a sudden moping and complaining about how he is not strong enough. How he is just an Ex-SOLDIER wanna be when in reality he performed much better against Sephiroth than even Zack. Zack being considered the 2nd best SOLDIER after Sephiroth himself. But come to think of it it's just the writer's fault for disregarding Cloud's character development.

Do people still think Cloud would wipe the floor with Sephiroth?

From what I saw in AC, Sephiroth spared Cloud by stabbing him in the arm instead of his throat, chest, face, etc etc.

I agree. Sephiroth's flaw is the fact he still considers Cloud a puppet of his. Eventhough Cloud has stopped Sephiroth in his tracks 3 times now. I wonder.

Based on Gameplay Squall punks cloud.Everyone's picking Cloud out of liking for the character.

Based on AC and Gameplay, Cloud mops it with Squall.

Right. Gameplay wise he can? Hero renders Squall invincible, and then he can spam Lion Heart over and over again without getting touched. Not to mention in FFVIII the Active Time Gauge fills a lot faster than in FFVII. But in my opinion it's not wise to use gameplay elements in stuff like this.

Originally posted by Soren the Mage
Based on AC and Gameplay, Cloud mops it with Squall.
Well AC isn't a game so I don't know if it should be used in a game vs forum......

Based on Gameplay Squall would stomp cloud.Squall gets limit break very fast sometimes it doesn't even require yellow health to do it.Lionheart>>anything Cloud can do.

characters that begin in a game are allowed...so AC counts

Originally posted by MadMel
characters that begin in a game are allowed...so AC counts
Well that's not fair at all.......

yeah it is, lets compare AC to the opening movie, or any movie in the game for that matter. Cloud wins, he's faster and stronger, we'll even take squall's speed in account during his lionhart move, hm....nope cloud still wins. I'll even prove that with something they're both in, KH!
Cloud was placed in higher difficulty level tournament not to mention, cloud's Sonic Blade out speeds squall's Lionhart as well.

Cloud's faster and stronger? How and when did we ever see this? Oh great the state-of-the-art movie compared to the dated FFVIII. Great. Last time I checked Squall moves faster than Cloud does when Cloud performs the Omnislash. Hell I can't even count all the times 9999 pops up. Then Cloud and Sephiroth both get whooped by Sora. Please don't use KH for this. Aerith's alive in the game, and it is not canon.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Cloud's faster and stronger? How and when did we ever see this? Oh great the state-of-the-art movie compared to the dated FFVIII. Great. Last time I checked Squall moves faster than Cloud does when Cloud performs the Omnislash. Hell I can't even count all the times 9999 pops up. Then Cloud and Sephiroth both get whooped by Sora. Please don't use KH for this. Aerith's alive in the game, and it is not canon. alright, but i've played both, dont' think AC should be brought into it and still think that cloud stomps the living crap out of squall. Cloud moves so fast during him omnislash, you can barely even notice the transition between moves, however squall does his little "i'm mr. hot and sexy" poses several time during the lionhart, bounces around like a slower yoda, and actually does LESS damage than Cloud does. I used KH though because it seemed like the easiest way to convert a noob since both character are actually in it. I do agree however that Aeris just didn't belong in that game, and neither her nor Yuffie should've been traveling with Squall (or Leon). That was Square's attempt to take a mediocre character and turn it into a much more popular one by mixing him with the widely familiar Aeris.

I think if they made a ff8 movie equivelent of Advent Children, you'd see Squall doing similar stuff to Cloud. Nothing in ff7 showed Cloud being able to do stuff he did in the movie. But you cant have a movie with cloud and sephiroth standing apart from each other, slashing with numbers popping up. So they made them all fight all cool stylish super style. If they did ff8 advent children or whatever they would call it, you'd see Squall performing similar feats.

ROFL. That reminds me of a cosplay movie based on FFVIII I found in youtube. Hilarious to say the least.

On topic don't get me wrong though; I believe neither Cloud nor Squall will have an easy time fighting each other.

Squall's Lionheart does way more damage then Clouds Omnislash... Plus Squall does his rensoken(sp) before it which also does 9999 each hit.Also another edge Squall has that the Cloud fanboys keep ignoring is how fast Squall gets limit brake.

Ponder this.

Lets compare game mechanics. Personally, I view them at an equal for this, but Ive heard a few people up here side with Squall on this one, so Ill go with this. When I say Game mechanics, Im talking about the sum of their attacks, weapons, armor, techniques, limits, etc, etc.

So we have.....

Squal game mechanics > Cloud game mechanics

Now, the problem is in AC, we see Cloud fighting with crazy amounts of power. But, in the movie towards the end, Tifa remarks that Cloud is fighting with the ferver that they all did before when fighting sephiroth. So if thats to be beleived, then the actions from the movie are ment to be representative of the game mechanics that they had at the end of the game. (just because they didnt have the technology to have the characters jump around like they do in AC, doesnt mean that Cloud and his enemies literally stood in one place while fighting)

So we have

Cloud game mechanics = Cloud Advent Children feats

and if THAT is true then....

Squall game mechanics > Cloud game mechanics = Cloud Advent Children feats

Which means Squall is the winner in the end.

Personally I think their game abilities are comparable, in which case it would be.

Squall game = Cloud game = Cloud Advent Children

And a draw

Another thing you can consider is how Squall changes his Lionheart attack depending on the enemy.Such as when fighting the jumbo cactor you see Squall knocking this huge ass cactus who's hundreds of feet tall up in the air then jumping with him.

Squal and Cloud both appeared in Kingdom Heart's 1 and 2, after beating 2 and getting past Sephiroth you see Cloud fight like he does in advent children, where'as Squall.....well he kill's some heartless. granted he is badass while doing it.

at the Time Squall was better than Cloud on the ps1 platform, Lionheart did do more damage than omnislash. but Cloud obviosly improved, Squall hasnt demonstrated real improvement yet.

old school Squall takes Cloud

current Cloud takes Squall, until otherwise demonstrated

Kingdom hearts is not a reliable source to determine how strong the character is just read some of the ealier post.

uh......? I dont see why?

Well, it cant be really reliable because it has Mickey Mouse getting more kills than Squall.

And thats what we call Plot Induced Stupidity.

OOooooo I went there. Here come the Kingdom Hearts fans.

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Well, it cant be really reliable because it has Mickey Mouse getting more kills than Squall.

And thats what we call Plot Induced Stupidity.

OOooooo I went there. Here come the Kingdom Hearts fans.
I'm a KH fan and I agree...... even though in the game keyblader's are more powerful then everyone else.

*Shares Anti-KH shields with fellow soldiers.*

Dan can take Mickey.............

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
*Shares Anti-KH shields with fellow soldiers.*

Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Well, it cant be really reliable because it has Mickey Mouse getting more kills than Squall.

And thats what we call Plot Induced Stupidity.

OOooooo I went there. Here come the Kingdom Hearts fans.

Ok fine KH can be thrown out, but I do dare say that mickey being more important to the story in KH might be why he got more kill's.
but all three were present at the hallow bastion brawl, no way to tell how many each got...either way


but hey they both own Tidus

Agreed.

Originally posted by Marcellus


but hey they both own Tidus
Zidane yea but Tidus that would also be close match.Tidus does 10,000 damage with a single hit plus he's way faster then Squall and cloud.Tidus even has a counter for everything that does 10,000 damage aswell.

Is this a gameplay fight? Cause if it's not then the damage has no effect what-so-ever. If a cop shoots you in the leg it does not say 24 damage...
Tidus can actually deal up to 99999 in damage, and have the same health, but if you think about it logically, he has never held a sword before, he could not grown so powerful in such a short time could he?

oh god, is this still going on? cloud would whoop tidus in a heart beat! Tidus doesn't have the experience or even the combat genius to win in a fight with cloud OR squall

'Nuff said.

Oh really?argue

i dunno whats goin on but i think that cloud would win

Originally posted by kamikz
Is this a gameplay fight? Cause if it's not then the damage has no effect what-so-ever. If a cop shoots you in the leg it does not say 24 damage...
Tidus can actually deal up to 99999 in damage, and have the same health, but if you think about it logically, he has never held a sword before, he could not grown so powerful in such a short time could he?

This is Cloud vs. Squall so what does Tidus have to do with anything?

Cloud beats Squall.
Cloud beats Tidus.

Omnislash allows him first hit due to the quick gauge fill up. Omnislash does 150,000 damage.

squall wins i think there pretty evenly matched i mean come on we didnt see cloud traval through time at 17 and find his way back and cloud didnt rank at number 1 at 17 like squall did with SEED dont get me worong tho im not direspecting cloud at all

Cloud would beat Squall more often than not, but it won't be a walk in the park. And gameplay wise Tidus could take on every FF main char and giggle.

cecil and kain owns those jokers, cloud,squall,tidus, and the others

Cloud.

He has military training. ^^;

I realise Squall has SeeD training but, to be honest in terms of skill, Cloud surpasses Squall.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
This is Cloud vs. Squall so what does Tidus have to do with anything?

Cloud beats Squall.
Cloud beats Tidus.

Omnislash allows him first hit due to the quick gauge fill up. Omnislash does 150,000 damage.

....and yet Lionheart does more ?

does it, does it really?...

cloud has much better trianing, and has genetic enhancements that allow him to chop buldings to ribbons and leap skyscraper heights..cloud wins, but not easily..

Cloud has much better training and way more skills? No offense, but are you guys on crack? Need I remind you Cloud was, is and forever will be a SOLDIER wanna be. He says it himself. I do believe Cloud will pull more victories, but not because he has more training or skills. As far as I'm concerned Cloud has the training of a regular soldier grunt. There's no denying that. All he knows he learned by copying Zack's moves. Seriously he does not have better training, and he doesn't even come close to Squall in terms of skills. We're talking about a teenage that became leader of Balamb Garden and commanded it successfully. They don't even compare.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
This is Cloud vs. Squall so what does Tidus have to do with anything?

Cloud beats Squall.
Cloud beats Tidus.

Omnislash allows him first hit due to the quick gauge fill up. Omnislash does 150,000 damage.

I know they would easily beat Tidus, Tidus has no real combat experience and has never held a sword before FFX. So he does not stand much of a chance. If this is gameplay however, Tidus could win. (But it is not, but everyone seems to talk about the damage they deal and such...).

Tidus can deal up to 99.999, which is 90 thousand more damage than any of them, in one attack. Tidus overdrive let's him hit about 10 times, so he deals almost 1 million in damage.
Tidus can also have break HP limit which can give him up to 99.999 in health. I have the most defence you can get in FFX with Tidus. Then, a 99.999 strike deals 25 thousand in damage on me. So a 150 thousand damage would deal about 40 thousand damage to a fully leveled Tidus, which he would still be alive after, even x 2..... Cloud and Squall on the other hand, would die by 1 single strike...

But I know Tidus would loose and gameplay is not available as an argument in a debate, but it's still fun....

Originally posted by kamikz
I know they would easily beat Tidus, Tidus has no real combat experience and has never held a sword before FFX. So he does not stand much of a chance. If this is gameplay however, Tidus could win. (But it is not, but everyone seems to talk about the damage they deal and such...).

Tidus can deal up to 99.999, which is 90 thousand more damage than any of them, in one attack. Tidus overdrive let's him hit about 10 times, so he deals almost 1 million in damage.
Tidus can also have break HP limit which can give him up to 99.999 in health. I have the most defence you can get in FFX with Tidus. Then, a 99.999 strike deals 25 thousand in damage on me. So a 150 thousand damage would deal about 40 thousand damage to a fully leveled Tidus, which he would still be alive after, even x 2..... Cloud and Squall on the other hand, would die by 1 single strike...

But I know Tidus would loose and gameplay is not available as an argument in a debate, but it's still fun....

Considering that the game they are from is an RPG and the characters are as strong as you make them.

Game wise Lionheart can do more damage, the only problem is pulling off every single hit successfully.

If you can get every consecutive hit (Including the Renzokuken) you should get 249,975 damage on the opponent.

Whereas Cloud's limit break Omnislash can only get a maximum of 149,985 damage.

my opinion would be dat cloud would and could defeat squall if he really wanted, i mean he has jenovas cells in him doesnt he? soldier blood in other words mako in him which gived him and advantage against squall, all squall has his is gunblade and he uses quite well but all he knoes is how 2 fight tremendisly well and use magic and gfs, but cloud is like da martiz, so he would win, and if he would 2 use da move he did on shepy 2 finish him off in ac he would honestly win

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Considering that the game they are from is an RPG and the characters are as strong as you make them.


Well yeah pretty much. Thing is that we only know Cloud as his canon strenght, no one else. So it's pretty hard to determin FF characters...

I pwn them both

when you compare their ultimate moves, Lionheart and Omnislash, Lionheart does do more, so in an RPG point of view that hails Squall as the winner

OK cloud would totally win this because he's defeated SO many things already;
- Sephiroth
- Sephiroth Minions
- Big Beasties
- and Some Very Traumatic Times

I mean wouldn't you be like him if both of your closest freinds died and you could barely do anything for them??? I sure as hell would!!! And his sword is HUGE! I mean OMG if he can lift that thing then he could totally WOOP Squall's ASS! Anyway... he's hot as hell !!!

Squall has defeated:

1. Seifer Almasy(3 times)
2. Edea
3. Adel
4. Adel fused with Rinoa
5. Ultimecia
6. Numerous Guardian Forces

The fact Cloud is able to lift that sword doesn't mean he will be able to whoop Squall's ass. Kadaj & Yazoo carry smaller blades and are still able to give Cloud a good fight. Besides I've always wondered how the Gunblade's trigger might affect Cloud's massive Buster Sword.

still... the odds are kinda against you, for the simple fact is that Cloud is awsome and that's it, that's all that needs to be said.

Squall has a sexy scar :P

It's not sexxy!!! it's horrid! it's only good looking in Kingdom Hearts because they make it smaller AND he has a big nose! Now cloud is flawless has perfect hair that matches his eyes perfectly and has a great nose! Cloud is GORGEOUS!!!!! Squall is nice...

look at him in this pic; http://www.cetraconnection.de/news/bilder/advent-children/cloud-panasonic.jpg

He's Amazing... and that's one of his bad ones!!! So there...

i'd believe you if your argument wasn't so bloody one-sided

cloud owns my friends.. he owns squall.. did u guys not see Final fantasy advent children..? open ur eyes wide and watch. the guy owned like everyone... squall is cool, i like him but squall aint even close to clouds skill, cloud handles that huge hunk of metal like its nothing... he's beaten sephiroth twice. what more my friends ?

lol. my friends 18 to 5 in favor of Sir Cloud Strife.. i think that this is pretty one sided lol.. cloud wins by a longshot

Squall's overdrives are waaaaaaaaaaaaay better

Polls don't mean crap to tell the truth. Few people actually post their reasons on why each character would win. And as has been seen earlier some reasons are just because of his looks.

So go figure.

Squall commanded SeeD(an elite group of mercenaries) at age 17. He fought Seifer 3 times. He defeated Ultimecia, Edea and Adel. He fights Guardian Forces just to get them. He travelled through time, survived time kompression and even created a loophole.

Yeah what more?

Sephiroth comes in and kicks their asses.......Win win situation..

lol.. dude ninj4 sephi gets owned by either one of them lol.. cloud winss though coz he does some sick moves in ff7 ac. not to mention that square enix has focused much more on ff7 than any other ff game. lol so right there u can see that ppl like ff7 more than ff8. it would be a good fight. cloud would win. but people just say cloud wins and dont post their reasons.. just coz hes so popular.. cloud wins after a long and hard battle

the main reason people like 7 the best is because it was their first FF... there's quite a few similarities between the stories in 6 and 7, mainly because ff7 was going to be FF-64 before Square left nintendo for a little while... oh well, back on point, i love how underrated Squall has been in this thread

Originally posted by Infinity
lol.. dude ninj4 sephi gets owned by either one of them lol.. cloud winss though coz he does some sick moves in ff7 ac. not to mention that square enix has focused much more on ff7 than any other ff game. lol so right there u can see that ppl like ff7 more than ff8. it would be a good fight. cloud would win. but people just say cloud wins and dont post their reasons.. just coz hes so popular.. cloud wins after a long and hard battle

I kno that.............Omnislash then bye bye....ecspecially when he's got 5 different versions of the omnislash...
Then Lion Heart Bye bye..........

Originally posted by NINJ4_BL4D3
I kno that.............Omnislash then bye bye....ecspecially when he's got 5 different versions of the omnislash...
Then Lion Heart Bye bye..........

I have no idea what you tried to say.

k cloud wins guys.. he always wins. this has been done already

Of course he does, he is the hero.

But here's the newsflash:

So is Squall.

Lionheart > Omnislash

Cloud vs Squall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUGbLV7okvw&NR=1

Squall wins this...

Superboy beat me to it, but notonly surviving, but creating a way out of Time Compression, thats a monsterous feat to have when you have nothing but your own strength of will.

Defeating Omega isn't any small feat either.

Or commanding an entire flying fortress filled with SeeD soldiers at the very young age of 17...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Squall wins this...

Superboy beat me to it, but notonly surviving, but creating a way out of Time Compression, thats a monsterous feat to have when you have nothing but your own strength of will.

Defeating Omega isn't any small feat either.

Or commanding an entire flying fortress filled with SeeD soldiers at the very young age of 17... Wasn't the way to resist time compression by the power of friendship? If I recall that's pretty much what Laguna said(what a homo). Defeating Omega may or may not be canon, and really we have no way to judge what he is capable of, all we know is gameplay wise he is the hardest boss in the game.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Wasn't the way to resist time compression by the power of friendship? If I recall that's pretty much what Laguna said(what a homo). Defeating Omega may or may not be canon, and really we have no way to judge what he is capable of, all we know is gameplay wise he is the hardest boss in the game.

*Reloads battle rifle and aims with the scope at V2D's head* You will never call Laguna that, ok?

*Puts a gun to SP* Don't pull the trigger if you know whats best for you.

*Unleashes Shin Remy on FortressXRuler* Consider yourself cursed.

You think that remy can stop the Creator of the White Room? Are you F*****g serious?!
*Releases the curse using Dispell, then re-animates space* Can you take me on now, Prime?

Well I guess its my turn to add something to this XD!

Well people overlook so many things when it comes to Cloud. I see some of you just say that Squall became captain of SeeD at the age of 17 and Cloud is just a Soldier. Seriously? Seriously...? Come on people... SeeD didn't really have much guys that could put up a fight. In Clouds case, he just started out and had to match up againts, Sephiroth, Angeal, Genesis, Zack, and ect.

In truth, Squall had a good portion of his life to train, while Cloud only began to really practice after Zacks death, and in a short amount of time, he became extrordinarily strong. I also heard someone say about how Yazuu, Loz, and Kadaj put up a fight for Cloud. If I recall he had Geostigma on his left arm that bothered him and reduced his strength. In the end he still beat Yazuu and Loz. After Aerith healed the disease, Cloud easily destroyed Kadaj with out much effort.

People are also pointing out Cloud and Squalls emotions. It is even stated Squall appears more Cold then cloud. Cloud wasn't as bad as Squall, but became more depressed as his best friend "Zack", and love "Aerith" both died. You can't disagree that if Rinoa had died in the game, that Squall would have been in a lot more worse of a condition than cloud. Especially since Squall was much more untrustworthing to others, so having the person that made him start believing in others and die infront of him would obviously make him twice the emo cloud is.

Again, why do you think FFVII got more Games and a Movie? Or was the only one to get the most Games and Movie and even a OVA? Its simple, Final Fantasy 7 left so much to be desired. It made us wonder about Zack, Aerith, Sephiroth. It even made us wonder about Vincent's life, and what happened after they won in the game. In Final Fantasy 8, it was just that. I had no questions in the game, it was straight forward. Happy Ending and it never made me really wonder about what happened before the game or after it.

I also see people comparing there damage in the games. Seriously, it does not really matter what the damage is. In each FF game, there was a limit to the Damage and some even had more then the 9999 hit limit. Comparing the FFX games to the FFVII-FFVIII, it seems Tidus would pwn them all. In reality Tidus would get beaten senselly to a pulp, or at least put up a fight before getting beaten to a pulp. It is not a smart idea by pitting them againts each other by how they move in a game, but imagine what they could do in an actual battle.

If you look at an actual battle and how Cloud and Squall are, they will obviously end up in a tie. Even if Cloud is a super enhanced soldier and can survive a SuperNova attack that blows up pluto, and goes through Jupiter and then destroys the Sun from an attack by Sephiroth... <_<... I believe Squall would be on par with Cloud. For a normal human, he is surprisingly strong.

Now Judging from Omnislash vs Renzokuken, You can't judge them by how long they did it in the game. If they were to meet, and their attacks collided, It would be more probable that the both of them would continue on attacking until one gives in. Chances are both of them would stop, agree it would be a pointless battle, say that the other is an amazing warrior, and just settle in a tie.

SO... CLOUD = SQUAL
THEY BOTH OWN THE FF WORLD

hrm. i dont know, their strongest attacks are just about equal, omnislash as well as lionheart are practically the same move. in terms of strength, well, cloud has jenova cells almost perfectly fused, but then squall has griever living inside his dreams and can harness any guardian force. but id have to say leon on the fact that the final villian, ultimecia was easily ending the whoel world as opposed to bizaaro sephiroth, who might or might nto have been a threat to all existance. i like em both.

I don't see why KH is being thrown out as reliable source. People are acting as if final fantasy is an anime turned game. It's a game made by sony, so is KH. Though they canon differences, the character abilities and personalities in KH fit perfectly. People just have a problem with KH because it doesn't have their favourate character as the strongest. They don't like the fact that Sora is actually a powerhouse. So they ignore all other powerhouses in RPG games so that cloud can be the strongest one there is.

Cloud has feats.

Squall doesn't.

Hell The way Squall is Matching up with Sephiroth Blow for blow it would Seem that he would beat Cloud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8402dhK7S_M
After Dissedia which Cloud has shown zero existence to be in it should be safe to Say Squall pwns seeing as he is going head to head against Sephiroth with a smirk on his face.

Seeing as Dissidia is noncanon, what you posted has no relevance in this fight.

Originally posted by Csdabest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8402dhK7S_M
After Dissedia which Cloud has shown zero existence to be in it should be safe to Say Squall pwns seeing as he is going head to head against Sephiroth with a smirk on his face.

Actually all we really see is Sephiroth parrying off all of Squalls attacks in the beginning, then while they're running we don't really see, could be Sephiroh just parrying off more of Squalls attacks, and its Sephiroth with a smirk on his face

The real winner is Seifer.

cloud wins.

SE did not focus much on Squall and turned all their attention towards Cloud.

Cloud gets another win.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Actually all we really see is Sephiroth parrying off all of Squalls attacks in the beginning, then while they're running we don't really see, could be Sephiroh just parrying off more of Squalls attacks, and its Sephiroth with a smirk on his face

Yes Thats in the begining. When they are running up the hill you see them going head to head clashing swords. For all you know Squall could be parring Sephiroth. And If you look at Squall facial expression he is smirking as well.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Seeing as Dissidia is noncanon, what you posted has no relevance in this fight.

Yet we can use Disney........Also what makes you think its non-canon >_>.............It IS made by square enix directly from the company.

It would almost be stating that Final Fantasy AC isnt canon

Originally posted by Csdabest
Yet we can use Disney........Also what makes you think its non-canon >_>.............It IS made by square enix directly from the company.

It would almost be stating that Final Fantasy AC isnt canon Kingdom Hearts is not canon either.

What makes me think it is noncanon? How about the fact that it takes heroes and villains from several of the FF universes and puts them in one game?

Going by that, Capcom Fighting Evolution, Marvel vs. Capcom, and Kingdom Hearts is canon.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Kingdom Hearts is not canon either.

What makes me think it is noncanon? How about the fact that it takes heroes and villains from several of the FF universes and puts them in one game?

Going by that, Capcom Fighting Evolution, Marvel vs. Capcom, and Kingdom Hearts is canon.

Capcom Fighting Evolution Is not Soley from Capcom and from a third party company with rights for the characters.
Marvel vs. Capcom, prdocution by both Marvel and Capcom companies with the companies reciving rights to use the characters. Kingdom hearts same thing just Disney and Square enix is involv.ed

Final Fantasy dissedia is directly from Square Enix and the final Fantasy Crew

Man, tuff choice. Cloud has more showings, since he's been in movies. But Squall has faced a stronger villian and has a superior weapon (gunblade) compared to Clouds; I give the edge to Squall.

Squall for reasons already stated.

I think it's time a put up my sheild, here comes the stones.

Perhaps, if we regard solely RPG game mechanics then Squall winning could happen, but what besides that tells Squall is of Cloud's level? Cloud is more beyond human than Squall, judging from what both were shown doing.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Capcom Fighting Evolution Is not Soley from Capcom and from a third party company with rights for the characters.
Marvel vs. Capcom, prdocution by both Marvel and Capcom companies with the companies reciving rights to use the characters. Kingdom hearts same thing just Disney and Square enix is involv.ed

Final Fantasy dissedia is directly from Square Enix and the final Fantasy Crew The Final Fantasy cast in KH is in a different universe and timeline, and have slightly different characteristics. I'm pretty sure this is Cloud from Final Fantasy 7 and Squall from Final Fantasy 8.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Capcom Fighting Evolution Is not Soley from Capcom and from a third party company with rights for the characters.
Marvel vs. Capcom, prdocution by both Marvel and Capcom companies with the companies reciving rights to use the characters. Kingdom hearts same thing just Disney and Square enix is involv.ed

Final Fantasy dissedia is directly from Square Enix and the final Fantasy Crew But they are still wholey serparate verses.

I guess the Streetfighter animes(all of them) are canon now...

Like he said, as long as they're separate universes, they are different. They are just alike.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Yes Thats in the begining. When they are running up the hill you see them going head to head clashing swords. For all you know Squall could be parring Sephiroth. And If you look at Squall facial expression he is smirking as well.

Very unlikely, we only see Squall going all out attacking Sephiroth, while Sephiroth parrys off his attacks.
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/4233/sephparrysm6.jpg

And I don't know where you're seeing Squall "smirking", from the HQ trailer I'm watching, looks like Squall is like grunting from using force
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/3250/sq3bq5.jpg
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5623/sq2ra9.jpg
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6929/sq1nr8.jpg

Sephiroth is the one with the smirk..
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4962/sephsmirkdu9.jpg

Originally posted by Csdabest
Capcom Fighting Evolution Is not Soley from Capcom and from a third party company with rights for the characters.
Marvel vs. Capcom, prdocution by both Marvel and Capcom companies with the companies reciving rights to use the characters. Kingdom hearts same thing just Disney and Square enix is involv.ed

Final Fantasy dissedia is directly from Square Enix and the final Fantasy Crew

No, Dissidia is not canon to FF7, FF8, or any of the FF storyline or character story or background story, it is a spinoff, just like how Cloud/Aeris/etc were featured in FF tactics, but were not canon to FF7 itself, or how Capcom produced different SF anime's that were not actually canon to the actual SF plot.

In my opinion they are equals. Only reason Cloud is superior is because he has a shitload of feats that come from 5 times the exposure Squall has.

I can't wait to see what Squall will be up to in this game.

Since it's noncanon, he could throw a planet into some black hole in the middle of the universe and cause a big bang, it still won't count towards FFVIII Squall.

Fine by me. I just want to see him do some shit with updated technology. It is about fkn time other ff chars get the spotlight.

True. Squall is much better than Cloud anyway.

Cloud for 4 years was all emo about his life and Aeris' death. Which is why he fails and doesn't deserve the spotlight.

Squall actually made some progress with his emo-ness, and is no longer an emo.

LoL.

Zidane is cool too.

Man...they better put Zack, or Cid in the game.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
True. Squall is much better than Cloud anyway.

Cloud for 4 years was all emo about his life and Aeris' death. Which is why he fails and doesn't deserve the spotlight.

Squall actually made some progress with his emo-ness, and is no longer an emo.

That is why I dislike Advent Children eventhough the CGI was awesome and the fighting spectacular. It crapped all over Cloud's character development.

Dude, it's a Final Fantasy game, some variation of Cid will be in the game, be it the foul mouthed spearman, the old ass headmaster, the annoying as hell tiny bug, or the bald guy who pilots an airship(Though every Cid seems to have an airship lol).

Can you really picture Squall with his gunblade flying around chopping up huge columns of buildings like Cloud was?

And Squall did have a cgi fight =P

2:00
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Originally posted by Terryc250
Can you really picture Squall with his gunblade flying around chopping up huge columns of buildings like Cloud was? Not really. Doesn't change the fact he is much cooler than Cloud.

Sure, why not. It is only fiction. I never pictured Cloud almost flying around while fighting Sephiroth either, but hey it happened.

Yeah, Cloud was never really impressive til AC came out, what with its really good graphics and stuff.

I just hated how they crapped all over Cloud's progress to make him emo again.

You can make him troubled, but going to those extremes? Did he not learn anything from the FF7 ordeal? Did he not learn that walking away and not facing reality is never good. Did it not almost cost him his personality? Bah *Doesn't continue out of fear of smashing DVD on wall*

Well it was possible because we didn't see Cloud in CGI battle before, but we have seen Squall and ehh.. wasn't too impressive

Unlike Squall, who learned from his super duper gay adventure of queerness.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Well it was possible because we didn't see Cloud in CGI battle before, but we have seen Squall and ehh.. wasn't too impressive And once again, old ass graphics and engine. Sephiroth was in CGI in FFVII, and we never saw him do shit all that impressive in cutscenes til AC.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I just hated how they crapped all over Cloud's progress to make him emo again.

You can make him troubled, but going to those extremes? Did he not learn anything from the FF7 ordeal? Did he not learn that walking away and not facing reality is never good. Did it not almost cost him his personality? Bah *Doesn't continue out of fear of smashing DVD on wall*
Well Cloud was emo when he figured out his past was a lie and all that, then he became even more emo after Aeris died, he overcame the truth about his past but in the ending it was clear he was still thinking about Aeris when he said "I think i want to go meet her" or somethin, but at the end of AC he finally lets go and he smiles at the end (a sign of becoming un-emo)


Sephiroth CGI Battling? No.. FF8 had older graphics yeah, but its still possible to make a person look very powerful, it just won't look as realistic or pretty with all the extra effects, Square just chose to make their battle like that.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And once again, old ass graphics and engine. Sephiroth was in CGI in FFVII, and we never saw him do shit all that impressive in cutscenes til AC.

Quoted for truth.

Fact of the matter is Square Enix was simply milking FF7, and what better way to do this than with a top of the line CGI an hour and a half movie riding Cloud's dick.

Had they decided to milk FFVIII I am confident things would have gone the same way with Squall.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Well Cloud was emo when he figured out his past was a lie and all that, then he became even more emo after Aeris died, he overcame the truth about his past but in the ending it was clear he was still thinking about Aeris when he said "I think i want to go meet her" or somethin, but at the end of AC he finally lets go and he smiles at the end (a sign of becoming un-emo)

Cloud was anything but emo by the end of FFVII. He has finally accepted his reality. He admitted to Tifa and everyone that he didn't make SOLDIER 1st Class--a failure that made him hide from Tifa and his mother...even when it was the last chance he had to meet his mother(unknown to him). He apologized to the party and assumed leadership of the party like a true leader. He accepted his feelings for them and cared about them--such as when Yuffie is sick from flying around and Cloud tells her to do some squats*If I remember right* to distract her mind...something he learned to do since he got sick from flying too. He goes to the center of the planet to cut his ties to Sephiroth and save the planet--something he did not care about in the beginning of the game. Him wanting to meet Aerith is not a sign of being emo. He simply wanted to apologize and say goodbye to a dear friend.

Yeah but Cloud doesn't have a super cool leather jacket or Griever keychain.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime


Cloud was anything but emo by the end of FFVII. He has finally accepted his reality. He admitted to Tifa and everyone that he didn't make SOLDIER 1st Class--a failure that made him hide from Tifa and his mother...even when it was the last chance he had to meet his mother(unknown to him). He apologized to the party and assumed leadership of the party like a true leader. He accepted his feelings for them and cared about them--such as when Yuffie is sick from flying around and Cloud tells her to do some squats*If I remember right* to distract her mind...something he learned to do since he got sick from flying too. He goes to the center of the planet to cut his ties to Sephiroth and save the planet--something he did not care about in the beginning of the game. Him wanting to meet Aerith is not a sign of being emo. He simply wanted to apologize and say goodbye to a dear friend.

.. Thats basically what i said, he overcame the truth about his past, but he was still thinking about Aeris and how he wanted to meet her at the promised land at the end of FF7, it doesn't say anything about "saying goodbye to a dear friend" or anything that even suggests that, he let go of Aeris at the end of AC, where she walks away with Zack, and Cloud finally smiles.

Problem is how he shut himself from all of his friends...AGAIN. That is why I think AC ruined his character. But anyways it is still fun to watch.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Problem is how he shut himself from all of his friends...AGAIN. That is why I think AC ruined his character. But anyways it is still fun to watch.

Yeah I know what you mean, not sure why they decided to do that.

oops double post

Originally posted by Terryc250
Yeah I know what you mean, not sure why they decided to do that. He's an emo dick.

Cloud win.

In Final Fantasy VIII the characters were more realistic, and with that I mean more restricted. None of the characters could jump five meters up in the air, the only threat might be the summons.

And the gunblade was retarded, not only is the mechanics behind it ridiculous. But it's actually less effective than actual firearms.

Originally posted by Astner
Cloud win.

In Final Fantasy VIII the characters were more realistic, and with that I mean more restricted. None of the characters could jump five meters up in the air, the only threat might be the summons.

And the gunblade was retarded, not only is the mechanics behind it ridiculous. But it's actually less effective than actual firearms. Which is ironic since they also defeated the single most powerful being to ever appear in Final Fantasy.

Can we use Dissidia....but even though we have like only 3-5 seconds of Squall fighting it out with sephiroth which was quite amazing

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Which is ironic since they also defeated the single most powerful being to ever appear in Final Fantasy.
No the Pandemonium Warden is in Final Fantasy XI, if you're referring to Odin or Gilgamesh however then it's just game mechanics--Yojimbo from Final Fantasy X is an updated version of Gilgamesh. Yet he's not considered the most power character in that game.

He is talking about Ultimecia.

Originally posted by Astner
Cloud win.

In Final Fantasy VIII the characters were more realistic, and with that I mean more restricted. None of the characters could jump five meters up in the air, the only threat might be the summons.

And the gunblade was retarded, not only is the mechanics behind it ridiculous. But it's actually less effective than actual firearms.

I would like to say the samething for VII as well, because if not for all the other VII spinoff's, we would also say that all Cloud could do was just near normal human feat abilities as well. Never in VII did I see what he was doing in AC either.

The same goes for VIII, the strongest characters in SEED would be able to hold there own against the likes of characters like the S-Class Soldiers (excluding characters like Sephiroth).

VIII is quite old, and I'm very, very confident that Squall's abilities would be more accurate to those seen in Dissidia, although that may not be "canon", however what they are doing in there would be a realistic representation of themselves.

That means Squall fighting Sephiroth and running up the side of that ice mountain would be accurate of Squall's abilities.

I don't believe Cloud even has a clear cut advantage, in fact, this would be an extremely close match up for both of the characters. Since they almost mirror one another in everyway, and would be capable of the same feats. Cloud has Omnislash, while Squall has Renzozuken into Lionheart.

To me, this match up is dead even, since both characters would have the same feats and abilities.

Originally posted by Astner
No the Pandemonium Warden is in Final Fantasy XI, if you're referring to Odin or Gilgamesh however then it's just game mechanics--Yojimbo from Final Fantasy X is an updated version of Gilgamesh. Yet he's not considered the most power character in that game. I was talking about Ultimecia.

All forums ive been too, people always says that cloud is stronger than squall. Guess what thats a bunch of shit

just because cloud swings a big sword around and he defeated the great white hair emo knows as sephiroth his automatically stonger than squall

was i the only one that really watches the intro to ff8, when the gunblade was stuck in the ground did you see how thick the blade look

most people argue the reason cloud better than squall is because he was a 1st class soldier, thats a lie cloud never made pass a mere grunt in shinra. all of cloud experience with a sword came from the memories of zack a real 1st class

squall on the other hand was a full fledge seed the best of the best. He was trained since he was seven years old, and in the end he became the leader of school full of mercenary/mercanary in training that would go to war for him with a snap of his finger

cloud fanboys claims one of the reason squall cant beat cloud is do to cloud superhuman strenght do the j-cells.

what about the junction system in ff8, its clearly stated that the gf augmented the strenght of the char. its junction to, and when squall fought edea the guy got it with a giant ice shard in the chest, and when he woke up he had no scar to show for it while he kept the scar he receive by seifer in the beginning of the game.

most fanboys believe cloud to be more powerful than squall because he defeated sephiroth, guess what people wup di do sephiroth is not all that. Ultimacia is far more superior, all she has to do is goes in sephiroth mind in cast metor on him in his dead.

lets look at dissidia people, dissidia is cannon when people watch the trailer they sees squall and sephiroth going toe-to-toe, so to put squall down they say sephiroth was parrying all of squall hits, okay if you choose to believe ill give that to cloud fanboys, but tell what was cloud doing oh yay he was getting the shit beat out of him by garland/

all it took to put cloud down was one left hook by garland and cloud was out cold.

the only time i give cloud credit was in ac, because i believe those skill he use were because of the experience he accumilated after the event of ff7. Give squall a cgi movie he'll before just as good if not better.

dissidia is not canon...
thats all i gotta say

Please explain why Dissidia isnt. Even though its by the same creators. By saying that your basically stating that AC isnt canon. Or any of its side BS

Because its not the real incarnation of the characters? It doesn't exist in the real continuity? It's like saying Kingdom Hearts is canon to the FF characters. In the FF7 continuity/stoyline, Sephiroth never fought Squall. AC is canon because it IS part of the storyline.

Dissidia could be considered a non-canon spin-off.

Cloud just seems far too strong for Squall, can you honestly picture Squall jumping around like superman slicing up columns of skyscrapers with his little gunblade?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Because its not the real incarnation of the characters? It doesn't exist in the real continuity? It's like saying Kingdom Hearts is canon to the FF characters. In the FF7 continuity/stoyline, Sephiroth never fought Squall. AC is canon because it IS part of the storyline.

Dissidia could be considered a non-canon spin-off.

Cloud just seems far too strong for Squall, can you honestly picture Squall jumping around like superman slicing up columns of skyscrapers with his little gunblade? what ever Terry says is 100% fact. If you try to debunk him, then you're retarded. think of Advent Children like the longest Cut scene in video game history.

As horrible as the film was, and actually the entire Final Fantasy series starting from 1 all the way to 13 (who the **** do they think they are? Land Before Time?) it's gotta be CANON!

Squall is a better overall character, and in combat, I think they're relatively even. That being said, my inner FFVIII fanboy ('cause VIII was my first FF) says that Squall would win. :P

Originally posted by Voyeur
what ever Terry says is 100% fact. If you try to debunk him, then you're retarded. think of Advent Children like the longest Cut scene in video game history.

As horrible as the film was, and actually the entire Final Fantasy series starting from 1 all the way to 13 (who the **** do they think they are? Land Before Time?) it's gotta be CANON!
And whatever you say is never a fact. AC is a movie, not a "cut scene", why would anyone want to think of it any different?

Right that's why the FF series is far more popular then the LoZ series. I guess you don't like it because FF is meant older mature people.

Apparently you have trouble understanding why AC is canon, so i'll try to baby feed it to you.
It's canon because you know, it's part of the storyline? The events of AC is what leads to the events of DoC? Because DoC is the sequal to AC, you following? And the events of FF7 is what leads to the events of AC, and CC is what leads to the events of FF7. It all ties in, a continuity. If we for some reason acted like AC never existed, then DoC wouldn't make much sense at all. Because the storyline is based on the events of what happened in AC, thus, a sequal. You understand? It's not like LoZ where you can just pick up any random game and everything will make sense.

Originally posted by Terryc250
And whatever you say is never a fact. AC is a movie, not a "cut scene", why would anyone want to think of it any different?

Right that's why the FF series is far more popular then the LoZ series. I guess you don't like it because FF is meant older mature people.

Apparently you have trouble understanding why AC is canon, so i'll try to baby feed it to you.
It's canon because you know, it's part of the storyline? The events of AC is what leads to the events of DoC? Because DoC is the sequal to AC, you following? And the events of FF7 is what leads to the events of AC, and CC is what leads to the events of FF7. It all ties in, a continuity. If we for some reason acted like AC never existed, then DoC wouldn't make much sense at all. Because the storyline is based on the events of what happened in AC, thus, a sequal. You understand? It's not like LoZ where you can just pick up any random game and everything will make sense.
1) Quote for truth
2) Know that you're lying to everyone
3) Terry < Boxxy
4) ???
5) Profit

For Terry: http://board8.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda_vs_Final_Fantasy_2006

Squall wins this, he's marginally less emo, and his sword isn't retardedly huge, so it won't pull him off balance when he swings it.

Originally posted by Voyeur
1) Quote for truth
2) Know that you're lying to everyone
3) Terry < Boxxy
4) ???
5) Profit

Once again im not into your internet slang, i dont know what "boxxy" is.

How am I lying to everyone? FF is more popular then LoZ. And it is usually meant for mature people, since LoZ almost has a rating of E, while lots of FF has swearing, sexual and violent themes.

Sequals do give the company profit, so? What does that have to do with it? It doesn't make it any less canon.

@ Screampaste

One net poll doesn't mean much. Why not post some other polls from that same place?
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/c04spr.html
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/top10.html
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/c9912.html
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/spr05.html
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/c0112.html
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/c0012.html

As you can obviously see FF series always beats out LoZ besides that one poll you posted (which was close as well btw)

Now lets look at actual statistics shall we?
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy

Since 1987 LoZ has sold 52 million copies worldwide making it 12th most popular video game franchise

Since 1987 FF has sold 80 million copies worldwide making it 4th most popular video game franchise

Also, Cloud doesn't lose balance when he swings his sword (wtf?) He carries it as easy a feather

Originally posted by Terryc250
Because its not the real incarnation of the characters? It doesn't exist in the real continuity? It's like saying Kingdom Hearts is canon to the FF characters. In the FF7 continuity/stoyline, Sephiroth never fought Squall. AC is canon because it IS part of the storyline.

Dissidia could be considered a non-canon spin-off.

Cloud just seems far too strong for Squall, can you honestly picture Squall jumping around like superman slicing up columns of skyscrapers with his little gunblade?

It was created by the creators. Happened in a different realm after the main storyline supposedly. And After words they returned to their real worlds. Different stuff can happen in their lives. Take marvel for example. How many crossovers had they had with Spider-man and the fantastic 4 and Wolverine with Captain America. Countless. Yet its still is canon cuz its made by the creators.

Kingdom Hearts is a poor example for an argument. Because disney own those versions and is not fully created and developed by the creators. Considering all the fantasy stuff that is involved in Final Fantasy it is likely that it can happen. They had their same memories. Basically the same moves. Acted like their characters. There is nothing that put them out of canon. Just because you feel its not canon doesnt make it non-canon

they were IC showed similiar moves and abilities and it was created by square enix and the character developers. It was basically the FF crew. so how in the world are you going to say its not canon.

People could easily argue that AC isnt canon because its not part of the continuity. Sephiroth is dead. How he came back is BS. And can just as easily be said that Cloud never fought him again. The only difference between Dissidia and AC. Is that AC is a sequel to FF7. Dissidia Just isnt a sequel. But a sidestory. Just like AC.

There is nothing that makes it Non Canon