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Setting is in the temple training room. This is dark side Anakin as he was at the end of ROTS. This is ROTS Obi-Wan.

u idiot did u even c rots they did fight and obi won

On mustufar...

Sidious vs Yoda in the senate chamber.

Clothing: Pink bathrobes. Which one wins?

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Setting is in the temple training room. This is dark side Anakin as he was at the end of ROTS. This is ROTS Obi-Wan.

The temple room as it is described in the game ROTS? Well, there are not many things to claim a high ground here, but I don't know if that is Obi's only chance of survival. I don't know...

Obi dies. Anakin thinking clearly + no highground = dead Kenobi.

Anakin+darkside=not thinking clearly..

Anakin wins. Obi-Wan was getting tired at the end of their duel on Mustafar. "This is the end for you, my Master." Anakin knew Kenobi was getting tired. With no high ground and mostly-flat terrain in the Temple I can't see Obi-Wan walking away alive.

Originally posted by tdtd
Anakin+darkside=not thinking clearly..

Not always. He used the Dark Side against Dooku and... well, dropped him in a minute and a half.

I wouldn't call it the same thing, he used anger sure. When he's fully turned by the fight on Mustafar, he's an imbecile.

Honestly, I think that had most to do with Padme. I mean, he must have been going through alot to have her turn against him like that. He was badly emotionally conflicted. That, along with Kenobi knowing him inside out, and Kenobi managing to take a highground advantage, led to his defeat.

Though his mental problems seemed to dissapear when Obi removed three of his limbs.

Perhaps, which ANakin is this?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Anakin wins. Obi-Wan was getting tired at the end of their duel on Mustafar. "This is the end for you, my Master." Anakin knew Kenobi was getting tired. With no high ground and mostly-flat terrain in the Temple I can't see Obi-Wan walking away alive.

Huzzah for literalism! Do you know what taunting an opponent is?

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Huzzah for literalism! Do you know what taunting an opponent is?
So Anakin may have been taunting, but even if he was he probably knew Obi-Wan was getting tired. Look at how hard Obi-Wan's breathing in that scene and Anakin's not even breathing hard.

Anakin is an ill tempered brute.

Obi wan would probably say, "ZOMG Padme was soooooooo good," and Anakin, angry, would charge in and get owned.

Anakin is incompetent

Anyone with a sturdy temperament and half a brain could pwn Anakin.


We've seen Kenobi rape Anakin and he was on par with him during the entire fight.

Anakin would start to get mad and swing widly like he did with Asajj, who sucked too much to defend Anakin's rage.

Kenobi has virtually mastered Soresu and would most likely defend his enraged attacks, find a flaw and take out his limbs again.


Anakin is the better duelist, but he's stupid and arrogant. Kenobi takes the victory.

anakin's styles totally different from obi-wan;s. anakin is showy. obi-wan is direct with his strikes. that's why he's tired at the end.
even though obi-wan has more experience, and i believe he was holding back beacause of his relationship with anakin.

Lol, look at the Dooku fight. Obi gets pwnd, Anakin wins. He's superior to Obi-Wan.

obi wan would win. anakin is the better duelist, but doesnt have the mental side of it down. hes too uncontrolled. i think it was the ultimate visual guide that said it wasnt just the high ground that let obi wan win, when he heard anakin say the jedi were evil he realised he couldnt turn him back and knew what needed to be done. it says that once obi wan realised that the battle turned for him. anakin has more skill, but leaves himself open and takes too many stupid risks, which is what obi wans style is designed to exploit.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Lol, look at the Dooku fight. Obi gets pwnd, Anakin wins. He's superior to Obi-Wan.


Lol, look at the Kenobi VS Anakin fight.

Anakin gets pwnd, Obi wins.

He's superior to Anakin.



^ Awwww, see how easy that is to do?

Well Anakin was clearly overpowering the fight and lost due to his overconfidence and not because Kenobi was the better duelist, whereas Dooku clearly owned Kenobi while Anakin was somewhat able to defend against Dooku and eventually overpower him.

Anakin is a far superior duelist, and a far superior Jedi then Kenobi was (Obi admit this himself in ROTS). But Anakin is always at a mental disadvantage, especially against his only "father figure". In the Mustafar duel Anakin was full of rage, confusion, all the crap about padme AND he was fighting the man who essentially raised him and taught him everything he knew. As well, Obi is FAR more level headed and takes less risks (because of his personality and his saber style), Anakin just gets pissed and loses his cool, and is more prone to make mistakes. Against a normal duelist (even some exceptional duelists) Anakin's rage is too much to handle, even with any mistakes he might make. But Kenobi's style works well against that kind of fighting and Obi is THE Form III master of the order.

On Paper Anakin should mop the floor with Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure if it would ever happen, Kenobi has too much mental advantage over Anakin.

Yeah, and in Labyrinth of Evil and When They Were Brothers, which take place right before ROTS, it's made clear than Anakin has surprassed Kenobi in terms of power.

Indeed

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Anakin is a far superior duelist, and a far superior Jedi then Kenobi was (Obi admit this himself in ROTS). But Anakin is always at a mental disadvantage, especially against his only "father figure". In the Mustafar duel Anakin was full of rage, confusion, all the crap about padme AND he was fighting the man who essentially raised him and taught him everything he knew. As well, Obi is FAR more level headed and takes less risks (because of his personality and his saber style), Anakin just gets pissed and loses his cool, and is more prone to make mistakes. Against a normal duelist (even some exceptional duelists) Anakin's rage is too much to handle, even with any mistakes he might make. But Kenobi's style works well against that kind of fighting and Obi is THE Form III master of the order.

On Paper Anakin should mop the floor with Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure if it would ever happen, Kenobi has too much mental advantage over Anakin.

Okay, let's get something straight here. Anakin was NEVER the Jedi that Kenobi was. I'm sure Anakin was the better Jedi, seeing as he was the one who killed Younglings and slaughtered a temple of his own brotheren. And he tried to kill his master and turned into a Sith. BUT he's still the better Jedi than Kenobi, right?

Wrong. Kenobi was always the better Jedi than Anakin and that's clearly displayed in the movies.

I love how Anakin was supposedly the more powerful Jedi than Kenobi at that point. Funny, they were on par with Lightsabers then entire time and when they force pushed, it was on par. They were on par until Kenobi walked on top as the victor.

But Anakins still better! Even though he lost horribly!


he's still better . . . *cries*

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Anakin is a far superior duelist, and a far superior Jedi then Kenobi was (Obi admit this himself in ROTS).

LMAO, so judging by this kind of logic, Kenobi is as wise as Yoda and as great a swordsman as Windu? Or Anakin is a slow learner because he says so to Dooku in AOTC? Nonsense.



Erm, I also saw Anakin trying to butcher Kenobi during that fight. If he held any regard for Kenobi's life, he'd definetly given it up before that fight. He was aiming to kill Kenobi, that's a dead cert.



Erm, and? This only disproves you own point. Kenobi doesn't fight like a berserker and we see the benefits. He's not one of the most dangerous men in the galaxy for nothing.



O rly? Or is that more unsupported bullshit? I don't see Anakin being able to kill Yoda just because he goes into teh uber berserker mode.



LMAO, you're a crock of shit, Anomaly. As are your arguments...

QED

Originally posted by Antediluvian
Okay, let's get something straight here. Anakin was NEVER the Jedi that Kenobi was. I'm sure Anakin was the better Jedi, seeing as he was the one who killed Younglings and slaughtered a temple of his own brotheren. And he tried to kill his master and turned into a Sith. BUT he's still the better Jedi than Kenobi, right?

Wrong. Kenobi was always the better Jedi than Anakin and that's clearly displayed in the movies.

I love how Anakin was supposedly the more powerful Jedi than Kenobi at that point. Funny, they were on par with Lightsabers then entire time and when they force pushed, it was on par. They were on par until Kenobi walked on top as the victor.

But Anakins still better! Even though he lost horribly!


he's still better . . . *cries*

LOL, yes, in terms of 'what it means' to be a Jedi, Kenobi is one of the best EVER.

But have you read LoE? Kenobi is in awe of just about everything that Anakin does. Anakin is better then Kenobi, in every way, but Anakin is not the better "Jedi" in the meaning of the word. He is a better Jedi in terms of skill.

And in the saber Duel on Mustafar I saw Anakin kicking Kenobi's ass (for the most part) up until they were on the floating platforms.

Addressing "on par" with visual observations is subjective and not of any use for argumentation.

To you, you saw on par. To me, I saw Anakin on the attack the whole fight while kicking Kenobi in the face etc. etc. The only real time Kenobi had Anakin on the run was when they were on the table, which was more of a physical fight then a saber fight..Anakin was winning, Kenobi was tired and always had a VERY concerned look on his face the whole fight..From what I saw...Again, its all subjective and therefore of no use for argument. So its useless really...Just like Dooku fanboys saw Dooku "changing his saber style, and not trying" while fighting Anakin, I saw Dooku get Anakin pissed off then getting straight up pwned by Anakin.

Subjective observations are useless in terms of argument.

No, because that wasn't coming from the actual person. It wasn't Windu saying "Obi-Wan is as strong as I am" and Yoda saying "Obi-wan is as wise as I am"...when it comes from the person being compared to, its not hyperbole, its a true (to the person) statement. Obi-wan thinks that Anakin is a "far better Jedi" then he is, he said it himself, and who better then himself to say who is better then he is?




Hyperbole, and unsubstantiated claims, prove it. He was a damn conflicted boy at this point. To argue this is to be completely ignorant of the entire surrounding events of the duel.



This post is useless...I said that Kenobi's style is like this, and it helped him stay alive against Anakin..you only repeated what i said, why? lol




Again, thats not what I said. I said he can take some exceptional swordsmen when he gets mad. Did I say anything about Yoda? At all? No..Go watch the Clone Wars cartoon, Watch the Dooku fight at the beginning of ROTS. Would you not say Dooku is an exceptional duelist? lol



Try again n00b. Stop attempting to put words in my mouth and then you might be able to formulate an effective argument...maybe.

In all fairness, doesn't Anakin say that in a sarcastic manner because Dooku says something along the lines of "I'd thought you'd have learnt your lesson"?

Not that it matters, the rest I agree with.

Thats all fine and dandy, but the actual movie itself trumps even the final draft script.

Lucasfilms policy on absolute canon as well as these forums policy:

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

The films Trump even the final script draft because many parts of the script are not in the movies. Only the movies can be judged at highest canon and unfortunately I saw what I saw, and you saw what you saw in the movie with the mustafar duel. Making it pointless to debate because seeing is subjective.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Thats all fine and dandy, but the actual movie itself trumps even the final draft script.

Lucasfilms policy on absolute canon as well as these forums policy:

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

The films Trump even the final script draft because many parts of the script are not in the movies. Only the movies can be judged at highest canon and unfortunately I saw what I saw, and you saw what you saw in the movie with the mustafar duel. Making it pointless to debate because seeing is subjective.

Er, Actually . . .


The final draft of the script IS what builds the movie while they're filming. When an actor needs to read their lines . . . what do they look at? When they need to make a specific action or movement . . . What do they look at? The script is no novelisation and no interpretation, it's the boundaries of the film.

what does lucas film policy say?

Read it, here I'll post it and bold it again for you.

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

ONLY the films, not the script of the films, the films themselves. Sorry.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
what does lucas film policy say?

Read it, here I'll post it and bold it again for you.

When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films . Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences.

ONLY the films, not the script of the films, the films themselves. Sorry.

Obviously I have to repeat myself because you're not quite getting it clearly.


Does it mention the scripts not being Canon? All I see it mention is novelisations and interpretations.

Proof of Absence isn't Absence of proof, Anomaly. Get that through your head.

The script explains specific detail of what movie characters say and what they do - The final draft, of course.


The script is another word for THE MOVIE IN READING FORM.

So yes, thanks for the bold revision there. I think you need to re-read it.

Thats not what its saying, because the movie undergoes many changes from even the final draft script (Lucas changes his mind constantly in post-production) ONLY the actual final film is absolute canon. The final script is like the first draft of the idea of what the movie is gonna be.

Movies trump the script. The final draft script of ANH didn't have greedo shoot first, but the movie overrides that point and makes it canon. The ROTJ script didn't have ROTS Anakin in it at the end, but the movie overrides the final draft script.

The script is subject to change in pre/ pro/ and post-production. It is not final canon compared to the movies.

The movies are Lucas's final vision, the script WAS his vision, but he changes A LOT (and get rid of a lot) in the movies.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Thats not what its saying, because the movie undergoes many changes from even the final draft script (Lucas changes his mind constantly in post-production) ONLY the actual final film is absolute canon. The final script is like the first draft of the idea of what the movie is gonna be.

Movies trump the script. The final draft script of ANH didn't have greedo shoot first, but the movie overrides that point and makes it canon. The ROTJ script didn't have ROTS Anakin in it at the end, but the movie overrides the final draft script.

The script is subject to change in pre/ pro/ and post-production. It is not final canon compared to the movies.

The movies are Lucas's final vision, the script WAS his vision, but he changes A LOT (and get rid of a lot) in the movies.

Cool, but there's only one problem . . .

The final script is the . . . LAST draft of what the movie is going to be. The rough script is the FIRST draft of the idea of what the movie is going to become.

By the way, everything I mentioned from that script all happened in the movie. Everything I mention from the YODA VS SIDIOUS fight all happened in the movie.

I agree with Anomoly.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
I agree with Anomoly.

Your opinion doesn't matter. You can't even spell his user name correctly.

oooooooooooooooooobbbbbbbbbbiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii-----------wwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Who is that?

Anakin might have had more raw potential and power, but what he lacked is a strong mentality. Obi wan even mentioned it in the clone wars movie when anakin was on that ice planet. The name eludes me. So I would have to say Obi-Wan wins the fight. At no point in the fight will Anakin change to a more calm and less enraged fighter. That is his downfall.

"You are strong and wise, Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be."

Originally posted by darthsith19
"You are strong and wise, Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be."

That's very similar to what Qui-gon said to Obi-wan in TPM, but at that point Obi-wan still didn't stand a chance against Qui-gon. You have to be careful about taking what Masters said to their padawan as true.

Obi-wan wins this. Obi-wan beat him before, he can do it again.

Qui-Gon did not say that. He said, "I sense you becoming a greater jedi than I am" if I remember it right.... Otherwise I agree.

Originally posted by darthsith19
"You are strong and wise, Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be."

If you're trying to dismiss that as proof of Anakin being able to defeat Kenobi, then that's pathetic.

Kenobi THOUGHT at that point that he was the prodigal Jedi, but he wasn't.

Have you seen ROTS? Did Anakin LOOK like he was a Jedi?

I'd still give him props for his massive improvement since AotC.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
That's very similar to what Qui-gon said to Obi-wan in TPM, but at that point Obi-wan still didn't stand a chance against Qui-gon. You have to be careful about taking what Masters said to their padawan as true.

Obi-wan wins this. Obi-wan beat him before, he can do it again.
He said Obi-Wan would become a great jedi Knight, he didn't say Obi-Wan was stronger than he was. it's possible that Obi-Wan might win, but overall Anakin's more powerful, Lucas said so himself. Obi-Wan only won in ROTS cause he was fighting a conflicted, overconfident, blinded Darth Vader.


1. No, I was just adding to the list that was going.

2. He wasn't? If I remember correctly, he was the Chosen One.

3. Did he? How can you look like a Jedi? Okay, so he had a wife and was closer to the Dark Side than most Jedi, but he wasn't any worse than Quinlan Vos was. Actually, at the beginning of ROTS, he was kore of a Jedi than Quinlan.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
I agree with Anomoly.
Cool, I agree with Sorgo.