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These 4 heroes battle it out.

Which team emerges victorious?

Another thread that soon will turn into Spider-man vs Wolverine...

This is a close fight but IMO Spider-Man and Captain America take the most wins.

Beast is a definite non-factor, seeing as how he has neither the fighting abolity or superhuman strength to take on either Peter or Steve, after his ass is handed to him then Logan is done 4

Actually, I think that more times than not Beast can win against Captain America. But that's still not much of a factor considering Steve has Spidey on his team as well.

Spidey and Cap 7/10.

Capts and spidey kick logan's and McCoy's asses and then go out for a beer and reminisce about old times.

Why do people underestimate mutants ?

Originally posted by Rewmac
Why do people underestimate mutants ?

Why do people overestimate wolverine?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Why do people overestimate wolverine?

Well said

Originally posted by Rewmac
Why do people underestimate mutants ?

Oh please dont play the race card here.

Seriously you really think people would go against Wolverine and Beast because they are mutants?!?

captain america and logan have already proven they can take down beast when they want to...

but considering that beast underwent second mutations since they're fight that might change... but then again so did spidey....


I'd say concerning classic versions spidey and cap would take this...

most current versions.. I don't know.

Beast is cool and all, but he's more of a thinker than a fighter.

Then again when he's pissed he can make a fool out of Wolverine

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Why do people overestimate wolverine?

they don't...



if you actually paid attention to half the threads concerning wolverine that take place here.. over 75% of the material is wolverine fans trying to convince people who don't read wolverine books that wolverine can even do the things he's done.. overestimation is not a factor on these boards where logan is concerned.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Beast is cool and all, but he's more of a thinker than a fighter.

Then again when he's pissed he can make a fool out of Wolverine




guess you missed out when he took out danger eh?

Originally posted by jinzin



guess you missed out when he took out danger eh?

Huh? I'm saying that Beast is good

Originally posted by jinzin
they don't...



if you actually paid attention to half the threads concerning wolverine that take place here.. over 75% of the material is wolverine fans trying to convince people who don't read wolverine books that wolverine can even do the things he's done.. overestimation is not a factor on these boards where logan is concerned.
I don't think it's that people don't believe that the events happened, I think people are tired of Wolverine doing things he shouldn't be able to accomplish. This is only my opinion.

Originally posted by badabing
I don't think it's that people don't believe that the events happened, I think people are tired of Wolverine doing things he shouldn't be able to accomplish. This is only my opinion.

but what would they be basing those perceptions of wolverine on.. it's already pretty well established that most of the people who refuse to allow the possibility for wolverine doing the things he's done don't generally read that many wolverine comics... forcing us (his fans) to have to go over the same fundemental points about his character over and over again...

wolverine is superhuman in all categories and yet people refer to his capabilities as peak human all the time...

again.. IMO...

When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

Spidey and Cap...

Originally posted by jinzin
but what would they be basing those perceptions of wolverine on.. it's already pretty well established that most of the people who refuse to allow the possibility for wolverine doing the things he's done don't generally read that many wolverine comics... forcing us (his fans) to have to go over the same fundemental points about his character over and over again...

wolverine is superhuman in all categories and yet people refer to his capabilities as peak human all the time...

again.. IMO...

When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.
I think that Marvel should keep the character bios in sync with the feats of the characters. Granted, everything about comics is going to be exaggerated to one point or another, but I have problems with characters like Spider-Man or Wolverine beating the Hulk, Thing , Namor and so on. By no means am I trying to diminish Wolverine or Spider-Man in any way, but I just have a problem when characters beat people that they shouldn't be able to barely hurt. I believe somebody posted that if an uber strong character sent a less powerful character flying for mile just from one punch, there wouldn't be any good stories and I agree. In my mind an uber strong character should win fights against lesser characters more times than not. That's the reason in say a Spider-Man vs Wolverine thread I'll give Spidey the edge. I look at the characters feats and bios to base my decision.

see this is a hard one. beast in my oppion is would would drag wolverine team down if this was straight up beast vs capt or what not, but see this is a team battle and beast and logan have far more experience working to gather and would be far more effective team. so I think logan and beast might take this.

Originally posted by badabing
I think that Marvel should keep the character bios in sync with the feats of the characters. Granted, everything about comics is going to be exaggerated to one point or another, but I have problems with characters like Spider-Man or Wolverine beating the Hulk, Thing , Namor and so on. By no means am I trying to diminish Wolverine or Spider-Man in any way, but I just have a problem when characters beat people that they shouldn't be able to barely hurt. I believe somebody posted that if an uber strong character sent a less powerful character flying for mile just from one punch, there wouldn't be any good stories and I agree. In my mind an uber strong character should win fights against lesser characters more times than not. That's the reason in say a Spider-Man vs Wolverine thread I'll give Spidey the edge. I look at the characters feats and bios to base my decision.

regardless of whether or not I agree with you about the whole spidey mess (lol), I do think that you have a point about bios, and I agree with you to that extent.. also I don't have problems with your rationality, you're one of the more reasonable people here... my problem lies with the people who think they're inclined to tell wolverine fan what wolverine can or can't do despite not reading wolverine books, it's downright insulting.

Originally posted by capt it up
see this is a hard one. beast in my oppion is would would drag wolverine team down if this was straight up beast vs capt or what not, but see this is a team battle and beast and logan have far more experience working to gather and would be far more effective team. so I think logan and beast might take this.

but cap excells at leadership...which is a serious problem for anyone in a team thread with cap in it.

Originally posted by jinzin
but cap excells at leadership...which is a serious problem for anyone in a team thread with cap in it.
true but wolverine not slouch as a leader and hank does not mind fallowing orders. also the thing is capt may be a good leader but spiderman and capt knowledge of eachother and there abilities are far far less then wolverine and beast knowledge of eachother.
wolverine and beast have spent years as teamates they know how to work as a effective team.

Originally posted by jinzin
regardless of whether or not I agree with you about the whole spidey mess (lol), I do think that you have a point about bios, and I agree with you to that extent.. also I don't have problems with your rationality, you're one of the more reasonable people here... my problem lies with the people who think they're inclined to tell wolverine fan what wolverine can or can't do despite not reading wolverine books, it's downright insulting.
Capt can attest that I try not to insult. If I ever do just PM me and it will stop. A lot of the times I'm just ribbing people or starting trouble. devil
I acknowledge that Wolverine and Spider-Man have had exceptional feats but I also weigh there feats against the uber strong characters that they may face in this forum. It's just a different perception that's all. I will never say that Logan and Peter couldn't beat a Hulk, Thing or Namor because they have. I try to be as fair as I can will show something 6.5/10 or something.

Originally posted by badabing
I think that Marvel should keep the character bios in sync with the feats of the characters. Granted, everything about comics is going to be exaggerated to one point or another, but I have problems with characters like Spider-Man or Wolverine beating the Hulk, Thing , Namor and so on. By no means am I trying to diminish Wolverine or Spider-Man in any way, but I just have a problem when characters beat people that they shouldn't be able to barely hurt. I believe somebody posted that if an uber strong character sent a less powerful character flying for mile just from one punch, there wouldn't be any good stories and I agree. In my mind an uber strong character should win fights against lesser characters more times than not. That's the reason in say a Spider-Man vs Wolverine thread I'll give Spidey the edge. I look at the characters feats and bios to base my decision.
Dude do you really need to go there. Batman has done things that are impossible for a peak human to do yet they are accepted.

Originally posted by capt it up
true but wolverine not slouch as a leader and hank does not mind fallowing orders. also the thing is capt may be a good leader but spiderman and capt knowledge of eachother and there abilities are far far less then wolverine and beast knowledge of eachother.
wolverine and beast have spent years as teamates they know how to work as a effective team.

but cap knows how to work as an "effective team" with ANYONE...that's why he was in charge during secret wars, during secret war, during part of the infinity crusade. Caps as good a leader as it gets and cap's got experience leading spidey considering new avengers and all....
while team experience between wolvie and beast is something that might give them a small advantage in one category caps leadership skills are going to give him and spidey a MAJOR advantage in another.
even when beast and logan have teamed up beast us usally a hinderance to logan more than a help...

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Dude do you really need to go there. Batman has done things that are impossible for a peak human to do yet they are accepted.

they're accepted by everyone but spiderman fans.

Originally posted by badabing
Capt can attest that I try not to insult. If I ever do just PM me and it will stop. A lot of the times I'm just ribbing people or starting trouble. devil
I acknowledge that Wolverine and Spider-Man have had exceptional feats but I also weigh there feats against the uber strong characters that they may face in this forum. It's just a different perception that's all. I will never say that Logan and Peter couldn't beat a Hulk, Thing or Namor because they have. I try to be as fair as I can will show something 6.5/10 or something.

I know.. your reason and rationality on the forums is appreciated.. you aren't one of the poeple I was reffering to btw.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Dude do you really need to go there. Batman has done things that are impossible for a peak human to do yet they are accepted.
Oh, Big Sexy, I forgot you were there. You may go.

Anyway, back to the thread. Capt made some good points on behalf of Beast and Wolverine.

whatever dude.
All I mean is Wolverine is not the first character to be able to do this well beyond their limits. Batman has rolled with a punch from Superman and WW, Venom has lasted in a fight with the Juggernaut, Slade has cought a Flash. Each of them are subject to the same standard you have based Wolverine on.

For this thread, I give the fight to Spiderman and Captain America. I don't see beast beating Spiderman but Wolverine and Cap might go for a little bit.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
For this thread, I give the fight to Spiderman and Captain America. I don't see beast beating Spiderman but Wolverine and Cap might go for a little bit.
yeah that's pretty much where I'm at on this thread.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
whatever dude.
All I mean is Wolverine is not the first character to be able to do this well beyond their limits. Batman has rolled with a punch from Superman and WW, Venom has lasted in a fight with the Juggernaut, Slade has cought a Flash. Each of them are subject to the same standard you have based Wolverine on.
I was just joking and I know what you're sayin'. I just hate inconsistencies. There would be less arguing if the bios matched the character better. Such is the life of a comic book fan.

Originally posted by jinzin
but cap knows how to work as an "effective team" with ANYONE...that's why he was in charge during secret wars, during secret war, during part of the infinity crusade. Caps as good a leader as it gets and cap's got experience leading spidey considering new avengers and all....
while team experience between wolvie and beast is something that might give them a small advantage in one category caps leadership skills are going to give him and spidey a MAJOR advantage in another.
even when beast and logan have teamed up beast us usally a hinderance to logan more than a help...
capt has not realy lead a the new avenegers very much. capt has experience with spidy but it is another compared to the experience that wolverine and beast have togather.
also wolverine though not as well known as capt as a lleader he is also consider an amazing leader. wolverine does not like to lead which is why we do not see his leader ship abilties much, but he is said over and over in many issue to have amazing leader ship abilties.
true capt was leader of the secret war, well leader of most of the heros.
wolverine how ever when ever he teams up with alpha flight he seems to always take over leadership of the team. when alpha flight went up against department H wolverine was the one leading them.
when wolverine and alpha flight went against wendigo wolevrien elader ship was commented on.
wolverine also fi im not mistaken was choosen to lead the second group of defender and wolverien has also been asked repeatedly by scot to lead an x-men team.

Originally posted by capt it up
capt has not realy lead a the new avenegers very much. capt has experience with spidy but it is another compared to the experience that wolverine and beast have togather.
also wolverine though not as well known as capt as a lleader he is also consider an amazing leader. wolverine does not like to lead which is why we do not see his leader ship abilties much, but he is said over and over in many issue to have amazing leader ship abilties.
true capt was leader of the secret war, well leader of most of the heros.
wolverine how ever when ever he teams up with alpha flight he seems to always take over leadership of the team. when alpha flight went up against department H wolverine was the one leading them.
when wolverine and alpha flight went against wendigo wolevrien elader ship was commented on.
wolverine also fi im not mistaken was choosen to lead the second group of defender and wolverien has also been asked repeatedly by scot to lead an x-men team.

this argument is going nowhere.. I get wolverine being a decent leader, but he's also a reluctant leader which is a problem...

the fact is, he's nowhere near as good as captain america...

If Wolverine was a better leader, he would be leading the X-men instead of Cyke. And I agree, he definitely is not better at leadership than cap

Originally posted by jinzin
this argument is going nowhere.. I get wolverine being a decent leader, but he's also a reluctant leader which is a problem...

the fact is, he's nowhere near as good as captain america...
wolverine better then a decent leader. wolverine a great leader, but true he is a relectent one which could hurt them.


also I hope u mean nowhere enar as good as capt in leade rship becuase in a fight wolverine would take capt.

to be honest here I think spidy and capt take it. beat is wolverines down fall in this fight, but the fight is closer then people think.

Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine better then a decent leader. wolverine a great leader, but true he is a relectent one which could hurt them.


also I hope u mean nowhere enar as good as capt in leade rship becuase in a fight wolverine would take capt.

to be honest here I think spidy and capt take it. beat is wolverines down fall in this fight, but the fight is closer then people think.

yeah i meant leadership.. I'm honestly split on who I feel would win between wolverine and cap.. but probably wolverine..

Originally posted by jinzin
yeah i meant leadership.. I'm honestly split on who I feel would win between wolverine and cap.. but probably wolverine..
I thought so.

im not split at all the healing factor is what gives logan the win almsot every time.

Originally posted by jinzin
but what would they be basing those perceptions of wolverine on.. it's already pretty well established that most of the people who refuse to allow the possibility for wolverine doing the things he's done don't generally read that many wolverine comics... forcing us (his fans) to have to go over the same fundemental points about his character over and over again...

wolverine is superhuman in all categories and yet people refer to his capabilities as peak human all the time...

again.. IMO...

When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

Wolverine isnt super strong.

Im sorry he just isnt, and when he is written as Super Strong its just PIS. Plain and simple

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Dude do you really need to go there. Batman has done things that are impossible for a peak human to do yet they are accepted.

We're not talking about Batman here, we're talking about Wolverine

Originally posted by jinzin
this argument is going nowhere.. I get wolverine being a decent leader, but he's also a reluctant leader which is a problem...

the fact is, he's nowhere near as good as captain america...

Yeah I know. But many have pointed out that everything that characters like wolverine do is Pis yet they accept Batman taking shots form WW as legit. I like both but I feel if you speak against one of them, the arguement can be used against the other.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Yeah I know. But many have pointed out that everything that characters like wolverine do is Pis yet they accept Batman taking shots form WW as legit. I like both but I feel if you speak against one of them, the arguement can be used for the other.

Batman is another issue.

He has nowhere as much PIS as Wolverine.

And WW trumps Batman everytime. Seriously, I would like to see Bats take down WW

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wolverine isnt super strong.

Im sorry he just isnt, and when he is written as Super Strong its just PIS. Plain and simple
actauly he is. just ebcuase u don't like it does not make it PIS. wolverin has beeen super strong sence he first came out.

dude, he has taken a punch in the face from her before.
I like both characters. They are both among some of my favorite but to call everything that Wolverine does PIS, and claim all my others characters feats are legit, would make me a hypocrite

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wolverine isnt super strong.

Im sorry he just isnt, and when he is written as Super Strong its just PIS. Plain and simple

see this is EXACTLY the kind of ignorant crap I'm talking about!


this guy who hasn't seen 50% of what logan's done is going to tell me what logan can and can't do? what the ****?

dude okay here we go....


wolverine has had almost 2 dozen feats of superhuman strength right off the top of my head...

I know if you've been arguing with capt that he's pounded these feats into your head so if you're continuing to ignore them I have no hope but...

in thunderbolts wolverine is described as having superhuman strength..

in weapon x wolverine undergoes chemical treatments to enhance his muscular tissues to superhuman levels...

in x-men wolverine is described has being a superhuman in all categories...

how much more proof do you need before you can accept facts?

Originally posted by jinzin
see this is EXACTLY the kind of ignorant crap I'm talking about!


this guy who hasn't seen 50% of what logan's done is going to tell me what logan can and can't do? what the ****?

dude okay here we go....


wolverine has had almost 2 dozen feats of superhuman strength right off the top of my head...

I know if you've been arguing with capt that he's pounded these feats into your head so if you're continuing to ignore them I have no hope but...

in thunderbolts wolverine is described as having superhuman strength..

in weapon x wolverine undergoes chemical treatments to enhance his muscular tissues to superhuman levels...

in x-men wolverine is described has being a superhuman in all categories...

how much more proof do you need before you can accept facts?
thanks and I fully agree

Originally posted by jinzin
see this is EXACTLY the kind of ignorant crap I'm talking about!


this guy who hasn't seen 50% of what logan's done is going to tell me what logan can and can't do? what the ****?

dude okay here we go....


wolverine has had almost 2 dozen feats of superhuman strength right off the top of my head...

I know if you've been arguing with capt that he's pounded these feats into your head so if you're continuing to ignore them I have no hope but...

in thunderbolts wolverine is described as having superhuman strength..

in weapon x wolverine undergoes chemical treatments to enhance his muscular tissues to superhuman levels...

in x-men wolverine is described has being a superhuman in all categories...

how much more proof do you need before you can accept facts?

Im sorry but people say that Superman is overpowered? Seriously Wolverine is now in that catagory as well.

Seriously Wolverine never has had Super strength

and its not ignorant because its BS.

Seriously how does Wolverine have Super Strength? He has adamantium bones, enchanced senses and a healing factor. Those are his freakin powers. That does not include Super Strength or Speed.

Please tell me how that include super strength of speed?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Im sorry but people say that Superman is overpowered? Seriously Wolverine is now in that catagory as well.

Seriously Wolverine never has had Super strength

and its not ignorant because its BS.

Seriously how does Wolverine have Super Strength? He has adamantium bones, enchanced senses and a healing factor. Those are his freakin powers. That does not include Super Strength or Speed.

Please tell me how that include super strength of speed?

I ..



JUST...


****ING.....


DID.....



read weapon x they tell you right there in plain print that wolverine undergoes chemical treatment..

in thunderbolts his superhuman strength is attested to his mutant attributes as well...

he's not a human.. he's a mutant... with superstrength... so say he's never had superstrength is straight up ignorant...

I guess superman can't vibrate through attack either since he's not doing it every other issue..

Originally posted by jinzin

read weapon x they tell you right there in plain print that wolverine undergoes chemical treatment..

in thunderbolts his superhuman strength is attested to his mutant attributes as well...

he's not a human.. he's a mutant... with superstrength... so say he's never had superstrength is straight up ignorant...

I guess superman can't vibrate through attack either since he's not doing it every other issue..

Jeese you could have told me he went through chemical treatment.

Still I hardly consider that superstrength.

More like enchanced strength, like Cap

Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine also fi im not mistaken was choosen to lead the second group of defender and wolverien has also been asked repeatedly by scot to lead an x-men team.

Yea, but that's just a small team of the X-men (like Blue and Gold). But who leads all of the X-men (not Professor X I mean)? Cyclops. And he'd never let Wolverine have his position, since well, he couldn't handle it.

Just thought I'd share.

And the first 2 pages of this thread were so civilized to (well for a thread with wolverine in it anyway)...I can see how people would think that wolverine has super strength, but I would class it as that, his admantium skeleton obviously gives him more support when lifting things and packs more of a wallop when punching, but not by a great deal...unless hes's done loads of this without his skeleton then that just blew my theory out the window lol. But I wouldnt class it as super strength because its not natural if you get my meaning its kind of like he has artificial help...anyway I give this to Captain America and Spider-man, if wolverine had a better partner then yes this would be a good long fight, but because Spider-man can take beast out quick its onna turn into a Cap and Spidey vs wolverine, but before this turns into a spidey vs wolverine thread, if wolverine takes spider-man and beast takes Cap its a whole new game a fight between spidey and wolverine can realy go either way, and Beast with his upgrades can take cap so then it turns into wolvy and beast vs Spidey...So to sum it up I'v just disprooved my original thoughts so I say the fight is 50/50 depending on who fights who.

Originally posted by Sparkz
And the first 2 pages of this thread were so civilized to (well for a thread with wolverine in it anyway)...I can see how people would think that wolverine has super strength, but I would class it as that, his admantium skeleton obviously gives him more support when lifting things and packs more of a wallop when punching, but not by a great deal...unless hes's done loads of this without his skeleton then that just blew my theory out the window lol. But I wouldnt class it as super strength because its not natural if you get my meaning its kind of like he has artificial help...anyway I give this to Captain America and Spider-man, if wolverine had a better partner then yes this would be a good long fight, but because Spider-man can take beast out quick its onna turn into a Cap and Spidey vs wolverine, but before this turns into a spidey vs wolverine thread, if wolverine takes spider-man and beast takes Cap its a whole new game a fight between spidey and wolverine can realy go either way, and Beast with his upgrades can take cap so then it turns into wolvy and beast vs Spidey...So to sum it up I'v just disprooved my original thoughts so I say the fight is 50/50 depending on who fights who.

Yes true as shown in many comics, his adamantium skelaton does give him structure.

Originally posted by jinzin
I ..



JUST...


****ING.....


DID.....



read weapon x they tell you right there in plain print that wolverine undergoes chemical treatment..

in thunderbolts his superhuman strength is attested to his mutant attributes as well...

he's not a human.. he's a mutant... with superstrength... so say he's never had superstrength is straight up ignorant...

I guess superman can't vibrate through attack either since he's not doing it every other issue..

Oh ok I missed that bit, that realy throws my theory out the window lol.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, but that's just a small team of the X-men (like Blue and Gold). But who leads all of the X-men (not Professor X I mean)? Cyclops. And he'd never let Wolverine have his position, since well, he couldn't handle it.

Just thought I'd share.
actauly prof. x asked wolverine to help scot lead the team back in the day ebcuase he said scot could not handle it. also wolverine could handle it he just would enevr want too

Is this the Beast that has god-like agility and can lift/press 50 tons over his head, or is this the newer cat-like Beast that has trouble lifting 2 tons? If it's the more agile and stronger Beast, than Wolverine and Beast take this one. If not, than Spidey and Cap take the majority.

Originally posted by batdude123
Is this the Beast that has god-like agility and can lift/press 50 tons over his head, or is this the newer cat-like Beast that has trouble lifting 2 tons? If it's the more agile and stronger Beast, than Wolverine and Beast take this one. If not, than Spidey and Cap take the majority.

When did Beast lift 50 tons with ease?!?

Originally posted by Grimm22
When did Beast lift 50 tons with ease?!?

When he was part of the Avengers and when he was a part of the X-Men BEFORE Astonishing X-Men came out.

Originally posted by Grimm22
When did Beast lift 50 tons with ease?!?

By the way, I never said "with ease."

Originally posted by Grimm22
When did Beast lift 50 tons with ease?!?
I was wondering the same thing lol

I don,t thank it was 50 tons but he did get a upgrade to 30-25 tons for a short point.Also is the the new upgraded Iron Spider-man are the 15 ton lifting organic web shooting one are the classic Spidey?

Originally posted by batdude123
Is this the Beast that has god-like agility and can lift/press 50 tons over his head, or is this the newer cat-like Beast that has trouble lifting 2 tons? If it's the more agile and stronger Beast, than Wolverine and Beast take this one. If not, than Spidey and Cap take the majority.

wait.. he's weaker now? i thought otherwise.

Originally posted by jinzin
wait.. he's weaker now? i thought otherwise.

Nope, Astonishing X-Men REALLY down-graded his powers as well as making him look like a stupid cat-like being.

Originally posted by capt it up
actauly prof. x asked wolverine to help scot lead the team back in the day ebcuase he said scot could not handle it. also wolverine could handle it he just would enevr want too

What issue was this? During what saga/story arc?

Originally posted by jinzin
wait.. he's weaker now? i thought otherwise.

Me too. I thought Beast was currently around 25 tons. I wouldn't have included him in this thread if he's 2 tons now, because to be honest he has no chance in that strength range

25??!!