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Can Ludo pull it off? Setting is in the valley of the jedi.

Ludo is superior to Exar Kun. He shatters his sword over Kun's pretty little ponytail, sending Kun into hissy fit.

Ludo is an idiot and there's no proof he's superior to Kun at all. Kun takes it through brains alone if nothing else

How is Ludo an idiot?

He falls for incredibly obvious traps, plays everything straight up without understanding the concept of treachery, launches just about the stupidest 'trap' ever-I really can't believe Naga fell for it, gets himself killed in a way Sith should generally avoid...
And, oh yes, Ludo seems to believe that two incredibly obviously innocent kids are precursors to a vicious invasion

Yes lightsnake, because that has anything to do with a star wars versus forum..Ludo IS superior to Kun because he is an ancient sith and possibly equal to Naga Sadow, this is fact...
http://www.upyourbudget.com/hunters/images/get_a_clue.gif

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He falls for incredibly obvious traps, plays everything straight up without understanding the concept of treachery, launches just about the stupidest 'trap' ever-I really can't believe Naga fell for it, gets himself killed in a way Sith should generally avoid...
And, oh yes, Ludo seems to believe that two incredibly obviously innocent kids are precursors to a vicious invasion
While this is all true, it wouldn't effect how he would fight. This is just a straight up duel, there won't be any "traps" or anything.

yup

Well being an Ancient Sith does not automatically put him above Kun, we have very little solid evidence on Ludo's force power, although its logically assumed he is superior to Kun

Being an ancient sith and one of the main 3 in the storylines DOES in fact put him above everyone that follows. This is similiar to the DN Luke thread, although personally I think the fight with DN Luke will be closer.

There are about a zillion ways to trick and trap an opponent in swordfighting...Corran Horn's 'deactivate reactivate' technique for one.

And Td, how do you explain the Ancient Sith losing on three worlds? Just being an ancient Sith doesn't automatically make you a powerhouse

Originally posted by Lightsnake
There are about a zillion ways to trick and trap an opponent in swordfighting...Corran Horn's 'deactivate reactivate' technique for one.

And Td, how do you explain the Ancient Sith losing on three worlds? Just being an ancient Sith doesn't automatically make you a powerhouse

Lightsnake I have long given up trying to argue with somebody that has no concept of the topic at hand, and spews out irrelevant misdirections. I'm not going to explain to simple shit, but being an ancient sith DOES make you a powerhouse.. THe ancient sith were more powerful than anyone that came after, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this.. Why don't you quit trying to argue because it's futile on your part.

You can say it all you want, but you're gonna have to prove it

There's nothing to prove jackass, the ancient sith of the golden age were the most powerful of any, and history speaks for itself, when nobody that came after could rival their power, not to mention people became uber powerful after learning their teachings. Arguing against facts hasn't worked for you yet, it's not about to start now.

tdtd, Naga Sadow was a 'powerhouse'. So you're basing every single ancient sith on its greatest warrior? I can do the same. Sidious and Luke were both godly, therefor the entire human race is godly.

Not to mention we see numerous Ancient Sith being mowed down by Jedi in the Hyperspace war.
Your gods couldn't conquer three planets, Td?

That's not a logical argument, because the most powerful of the most powerful ancient sith existed in the Golden Age. Your if, then argument isn't logical, because for one, Sidious wasn't Godly, but Luke was.. 1 out of millions, wow, so all humans are godly? While we have the ancient sith who were incredibly powerful, at the height of their sith magic/alchemy, etc..

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not to mention we see numerous Ancient Sith being mowed down by Jedi in the Hyperspace war.
Your gods couldn't conquer three planets, Td?

Says the moron who can't differentiate between an achievement and a 1 on 1 versus fight.. Way to go lightsnake.

Your powerful gods couldn't conquer three planets, Td? I'm curious, why were the ancient Sith on Korriban unable to kill four Jedi? Where's the definitive, Lucas-said fact on the Ancient Sith's power

And we also see two sith lords in the same league as Kressh get slaughtered by Massasi. And Massasi aren't exactly the best warriors out there.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
And we also see two sith lords in the same league as Kressh get slaughtered by Massasi. And Massasi aren't exactly the best warriors out there.


You know they are in Kressh's league? Wow that's pretty badass, nobody else knows that..

Lightsnake don't be a moron, not everything goes through Lucas, ESPECIALLY not EU, which he has stated he has nothing to do with but is canon.

Oooh, but he's dictated things before...in fact, he liked DE and TOTJ.

And they were still Ancient Sith, and Ludo's trusted confidants and allies.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oooh, but he's dictated things before...in fact, he liked DE and TOTJ.

And they were still Ancient Sith, and Ludo's trusted confidants and allies.

Uh and? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Lightsnake let me ask you how old you are, and where did you learn how to debate, or rather not.

Ludo wasn't DLOTS at the time so they still held the same rank as him tdtd.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Ludo wasn't DLOTS at the time so they still held the same rank as him tdtd.

Oh lord.. Do you understand the difference between holding the same rank and being in the same league as somebody? Yes Blak Fox, they are different things..

The term 'in the same league as' can be interpreted in a number of different ways td.

Really? When you say Lebron James is not in the same league as Michael Jordan, what does that mean? What's that, it means he's not as good as him? Yea that's what I thought, there's 1 interpretation in this case.. Thanks.

Dude you can try but you can't possily tell me the meaning of what I actually said when the statement that I put forth was open to many different meanings. Only I can do that, because it was me who said that.

Originally posted by tdtd
Really? When you say Lebron James is not in the same league as Michael Jordan, what does that mean? What's that, it means he's not as good as him? Yea that's what I thought, there's 1 interpretation in this case.. Thanks.

Err it could mean many things. It could mean that Jordan was in a whole different league to LeBron in terms of achievements, or how good they were.

I'm confused, how can he be superior to Lebron in achievements but NOT be better than him? THat's my point, it's an issue of who's better..

Originally posted by tdtd
I'm confused, how can he be superior to Lebron in achievements but NOT be better than him? THat's my point, it's an issue of who's better..

You really are an idiot.

No, the idiot is the noob who doesn't understand the shit he spews out. Maybe this is why you don't post during the nighttime when the big boys are here. PLease stop posting until you can comprehend the concept of "in the same league"

Originally posted by tdtd
No, the idiot is the noob who doesn't understand the shit he spews out. Maybe this is why you don't post during the nighttime when the big boys are here. PLease stop posting until you can comprehend the concept of "in the same league"

You do realize of course that he lives in New Zealand where their daytime is our nighttime and vice versa?

So go drink a cup of STFU before you spew garbage.

lol td you got told.

I got told what exactly? Someone's location? What exactly did I get told. Oh that's right, nothing from someone that knows nothing about star wars, and loves to troll around correcting everybody without offering any sort of argument.. Yea man I got told!

Yeah um. saying the anicent are THAT damned good just beacsue their ancient si bullshit. Prove up. Of corce Im not saygn they aren't extremely pwoerful, they are. But until you include the facts and answer everyones questions, than thats still just an opino n of yours.

I'm sorry, I assume most of you have read these comics and aren't just talking out of your ass and fanboyism. What do you want as proof, you know and I know the Ancient Sith>all. Look at Sadow's power, look at Kressh's power, look at the legacy of Ragnos.. You can call it an opinion all you like, but it is a fact, even if I don't choose to repeat myself over and over because I assume you people have either read the comics, read the other threads, and don't play stupid just to boost your favorite character.

Nihilus, Sion, Luke, Sidious, Kun, Revan, Bane, Traya, The Exile. These are just a few opponents that I could think of that are in the same league as those you mentioned imo.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Nihilus, Sion, Luke, Sidious, Kun, Revan, Bane, Traya, The Exile. These are just a few opponents that I could think of that are in the same league as those you mentioned imo.

You are definitely new if you would put any of these except Kun, Luke, and I assume that's DE Sidous, in the same category as the ancient sith. That shows your lack of EU knowledge, not to mention Nihilus and The Exile don't count in anything because they are wounds in the force. Nihilus can only be killed by the exile, and his eating technique also originated from the ancient sith. I suggest you open up a comic before typing again.

Is that unsupported crap I scent? Don't worry, Blak...TD's read some comics and thinks he knows the EU

Considering nobody has ever agreed with you and the fact that you haven't won an argument in all of your time here, besides arguing with facts, can we say hypocrite? I am getting tired of destroying your arguments.
http://www.streetshirts.co.uk/shop/images/hypocrite.jpg

I see what Faunus was talking about: You make no effort to refute anything, you just try an insult. Keep 'em coming, kid.

And by the by: I know Janus, I've worked with Janus, you, sir, are not Janus in creativity or intelligence, so quit your pathetic little imitation

Originally posted by tdtd
I'm sorry, I assume most of you have read these comics and aren't just talking out of your ass and fanboyism. What do you want as proof, you know and I know the Ancient Sith>all. Look at Sadow's power, look at Kressh's power, look at the legacy of Ragnos.. You can call it an opinion all you like, but it is a fact, even if I don't choose to repeat myself over and over because I assume you people have either read the comics, read the other threads, and don't play stupid just to boost your favorite character.

Well...



1. I havn't read Totj, but I'ev been listening to enough of the ancient sith kiss asses on this forum long enough to know what their capable of.

2. I honestly dont know or care who woudl win this, so my"playing stupid" to boost my favourite characetr is wrong...

And what's this 'power' of Sadow and Kressh...Sadow uses a ship, some illusions and hurls around a rock...Kressh collapses a statue, your point being?

Where does TOTJ EVER STATE ONCE that the Ancient Empire surpassed everything else?

Its all based off feats.


ZOMG SADOW WAS TO AFRAID TO ATTACK MARKA!! THAT MEANS MARKA'S THE BEST00000RZ!!! No facts...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And what's this 'power' of Sadow and Kressh...Sadow uses a ship, some illusions and hurls around a rock...Kressh collapses a statue, your point being?

Where does TOTJ EVER STATE ONCE that the Ancient Empire surpassed everything else?


Surpassed? Do you even understand the concept of a versus forum, or are you going to continue to sound stupid?

Btw Blaxican what measures the power of a character on a versus forum? OMG Feats!!! Wow..

Plus the ancient sith needed hours and hours of meditation and amulets and a bunch of artifacts to be able to perform such feats. Sidious was able to casually perform his force storm in about 5 seconds.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Plus the ancient sith needed hours and hours of meditation and amulets and a bunch of artifacts to be able to perform such feats. Sidious was able to casually perform his force storm in about 5 seconds.


Hours and hours of meditate? Bro, where are you getting this nonsense? Artifacts that they created you mean? Sidious was able to perform his force storm in 5 seconds? How do you know? Sadow would blast Sidious with his amulet before Sidious breaks out his storm, and you guys didn't specify what sidious this was.

We SAW him perform the Force Storm and Plpatine would just casually deflect the beam. When did Sadow use an energy blast anyways?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and Plpatine would just casually deflect the beam.

Now, that is an illogical statement. I might have agreed with the rest of what you were saying, but what are you basing that off of?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We SAW him perform the Force Storm and Plpatine would just casually deflect the beam. When did Sadow use an energy blast anyways?


What is your point? When did we see Sadow use the beam? We didn't, we saw Kun use it and destroy everything in it's path.. Palpatine can deflect the beam? Can we say fanboy? You make no sense. No to mention Sadow would destroy him with the blasts way before Palpatine would have time fora force storm.. Try again.

What really was so damn impressive about the blasts? Aleema took a direct hit from an amulet blast by Kun and was able to get up shortly afterwards as if nothing had happened. If the blasts were so powerful, he would have used them against Ulic Quel-Droma instead of engaging him in a saber duel.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Aleema took a direct hit from an amulet blast by Kun and was able to get up shortly afterwards as if nothing had happened.

Perhaps you noticed the different color of the attack (IIRC it was red)? It wasn't the same attack, it was an incapacitating blast.



Or rather the amulets provide a defense against each other. Explaining why the Ancient Sith don't tear each other apart with them.

we saw Kun use it against an unsentient beast and three natives, big deal. And Sidious can do about a thousand things before Sadow even lifts his hand.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Perhaps you noticed the different color of the attack (IIRC it was red)? It wasn't the same attack, it was an incapacitating blast.

The only difference was the penciller. It was clearly the amulet blast. And also weren't both attacks red.



Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Or rather the amulets provide a defense against each other. Explaining why the Ancient Sith don't tear each other apart with them.

Wasn't it only Naga Sadow who had the amulets? I don't remember the other sith lords having them. And if so why not use it against Vodo?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
we saw Kun use it against an unsentient beast and three natives, big deal. And Sidious can do about a thousand things before Sadow even lifts his hand.

Like what fanboy? How many times do you have to be proven wrong. Sidious isn't in the same league as Sadow, this is a fact. Your cute little quotes like "Sidious can do a thousand things before Sadow" are ridiculous, and as usual, unsupported. As for his blasts I always argued that they never were used on a powerful force user, but his blasts destroyed Naga Sadow's incredible monster, and made a hole in whatever it touched.. Sadow is leagues above Sidious, maybe a few leagues above DE Sidious.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
The only difference was the penciller. It was clearly the amulet blast. And also weren't both attacks red.

No, you obviously haven't read the comics, so why are you posting? No offense but research something before you post. One was blue, one was red, one knocked out Aleema, one destroyed everything in its path.





Originally posted by BLAK FOX Wasn't it only Naga Sadow who had the amulets? I don't remember the other sith lords having them. And if so why not use it against Vodo?

No, if you read GAOTS you can see most of the sith lords have amulets of some sort. Why not use it against Vodo? Same reason you didn't see him killing everyone with it, same reason you don't see Sidious using force storm on everybody or Luke zapping everybody with Emerald Lightning.

Well surely you have noticed that once Sidious uses lightning against an opponent, it slowly increases in power and magnitude as time progresses. Then surely if Sidious was to blast Sadow with lightning, it would slowly but eventually increase to such an attack that would rival his famous force storm in power and magnitude. I would also like to point out that the ancient sith were not exactly great and defending against blaster bolts, so I don't really see any indication that he would even be able to block a simple attack like lightning.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
Well surely you have noticed that once Sidious uses lightning against an opponent, it slowly increases in power and magnitude as time progresses. Then surely if Sidious was to blast Sadow with lightning, it would slowly but eventually increase to such an attack that would rival his famous force storm in power and magnitude. I would also like to point out that the ancient sith were not exactly great and defending against blaster bolts, so I don't really see any indication that he would even be able to block a simple attack like lightning.


Sidious' lightning is shit, which has been established.. Sith Lightning is the most common form of sith magic, there is nothing that suggests Sadow won't be able to laugh it off. I didn't know Attack A=Attack B in terms of force lightning and blasters, so your point is moot.

Originally posted by tdtd
What is your point? When did we see Sadow use the beam? We didn't, we saw Kun use it and destroy everything in it's path.. Palpatine can deflect the beam? Can we say fanboy? You make no sense. No to mention Sadow would destroy him with the blasts way before Palpatine would have time fora force storm.. Try again.

AH, and what makes you say Sadow could blast him first? And what blasts? We never even see him use a beam, so how do you know it takes 1 second or even 1 minute?

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
You do realize of course that he lives in New Zealand where their daytime is our nighttime and vice versa?

So go drink a cup of STFU before you spew garbage.
Pwnt

Originally posted by tdtd
Like what fanboy? How many times do you have to be proven wrong. Sidious isn't in the same league as Sadow, this is a fact.

This is what I was referring to before. Something is not fact because tdtd says so. Is it ''fact'' that Yoda is superior to Sidious? No, it's a deductible assumption, but not a fact. As you believe that Sadow is Sidious's better, Lightsnake is convinced of the opposite. And as the one supporting Sadow here, it's your job to finally prove on your own that what you're saying is reasonable. Not factual, but reasonable and stable.



Unsupported? Can we say hypocrite?

Originally posted by tdtd
No, you obviously haven't read the comics, so why are you posting? No offense but research something before you post. One was blue, one was red, one knocked out Aleema, one destroyed everything in its path.


You're a liar. I just read both comics now and the first attack is pinkish red and the second is a more defined red. The point is, they were both red and any difference in appearence is due to the second attack being drawn by someone else.






Originally posted by tdtd
No, if you read GAOTS you can see most of the sith lords have amulets of some sort. Why not use it against Vodo? Same reason you didn't see him killing everyone with it, same reason you don't see Sidious using force storm on everybody or Luke zapping everybody with Emerald Lightning.

Either way you still have my above point to refute and until then, you will not convince me otherwise.

Originally posted by tdtd
Sidious' lightning is shit, which has been established.. Sith Lightning is the most common form of sith magic, there is nothing that suggests Sadow won't be able to laugh it off. I didn't know Attack A=Attack B in terms of force lightning and blasters, so your point is moot.

How is my point mute. If they had trouble dealing with blaster bolts, they would have way more trouble dealing with lightning.

Originally posted by BLAK FOX
You're a liar. I just read both comics now and the first attack is pinkish red and the second is a more defined red. The point is, they were both red and any difference in appearence is due to the second attack being drawn by someone else.








Either way you still have my above point to refute and until then, you will not convince me otherwise. Yeh I took a look at the comics too. Identical colors.

I would go for Ludo because Kreia states the people of her age were childre compared to the Sith of the old and Kreia and Exar are in the same Time Period

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
I would go for Ludo because Kreia states the people of her age were childre compared to the Sith of the old and Kreia and Exar are in the same Time Period


Good point, except that was the time of TULAK HORD, not Ludo Kressh.

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
I would go for Ludo because Kreia states the people of her age were childre compared to the Sith of the old and Kreia and Exar are in the same Time Period

KOTOR II is just barely canon, it has no real value in discussions affecting the entire EU.

Originally posted by Xepeyon
Good point, except that was the time of TULAK HORD, not Ludo Kressh.

No, it wasn't. It was said at his tomb, she never referred to him. In-fact here's the exact quote:


"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
No, it wasn't. It was said at his tomb, she never referred to him. In-fact here's the exact quote:


"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

Your right, but the statement is from a worthless source so the point is moot.

Yes, she was referring to Tulak's time, not Ludo. You have to access TULAK'S tomb, not Ludo's. there are different Ancient times. There are 4000 years ago, 6000 years ago, and 10,000 years ago. The point is, She wasn't referring to Ludo's Era, it was Tulak's Era. But let's try to avoid going off subject. Sorry if I started.

And Kreia should be taken with a grain of salt

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Kreia should be taken with a grain of salt

In all matters concerning EU beyond the KOTOR series, she should be completely disregarded.

Originally posted by Xepeyon
Yes, she was referring to Tulak's time, not Ludo.

Proof being? "An Ancient Sith" is not referring to Hord's time. It's referring to the entire Ancient Sith.



Point being? You can go up to Ragnos' tomb and Sadow's tomb. They aren't that much different in time apart. I mean, Ragnos and Sadow existed once at the same time.



Ancient Sith only goes up to 7,000 BBY according to the NEC.



Sorry, but she was, indeed, referring to the Ancient Sith, not Tulak's time specifically, seeing as she gives no specific time, and then says "an", meaning anyone of them.



Because she'd have any reason to lie about dead beings that wouldn't produce a different effect on her plans, right?

Not that this statement (or posts for that matter) really matter, or hold relevance though, I just felt like responding.

Once more: We have her hearsay and Kreia is a noted liar and manipulator...not only that, but since apparently Revan and the Exile are going to confront some of those ancients..

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Because she'd have any reason to lie about dead beings that wouldn't produce a different effect on her plans, right?

You have to also consider how much accurate info she would have had.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Once more: We have her hearsay and Kreia is a noted liar and manipulator

Once more: tell me what reason she would have to even lie?



Well, we'll just have to wait and see.

It seems to me she had pretty accurate information on Ajunta, and Sadow.

What reason would she have to want the Force destroyed? She could want the Exile to try to surpass their level, want to keep him from a confrontation with one of the Ancients..

And Sadow and Ajunta would be two of the Sith Lords the Republic would know about, and considering their relatively recent history, especially Ajunta's

Motoko Sama, you completely miss my point. Are all ancient sith the same? No. Are all Eras the same? No. She referrs ONLY if you access TULAK'S tomb, she mentions nothing of Ludo's swordsmanship, especially considering they used SWORDS back then!

Ajunta Pall was over 20,000 years before Kreia's time. . .

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What reason would she have to want the Force destroyed? She could want the Exile to try to surpass their level, want to keep him from a confrontation with one of the Ancients..

And Sadow and Ajunta would be two of the Sith Lords the Republic would know about, and considering their relatively recent history, especially Ajunta's


Hrm, you may want to recheck your facts LS. Faunus is correct.

Nope. The current EU(NEC IIRC) lists Ajunta Pall at 7,000 BBY.

But the Great Schism happened 24,500 BBY. So basically, according to the current EU, the Dark Jedi spent 17,500 years wandering space. You may say these dates make no sense... but they're the ones given.

Originally posted by Razielim
Nope. The current EU(NEC IIRC) lists Ajunta Pall at 7,000 BBY.

But the Great Schism happened 24,500 BBY. So basically, according to the current EU, the Dark Jedi spent 17,500 wandering space. You may say these dates make no sense... but they're the ones given.


There must be a flaw somewhere in the dates then. Ajunta was among the first of all sith.

That's what I heard.

Ajunta may or may not've been the first Dark lord, but he was one of the original exiled Jedi, but the SE starts at 7,000 BBY now

Really? He was one of the original exiled Jedi?

I guess he lived 18,000 years then :P

That, or he wasn't ever a Sith...

Originally posted by Faunus
Ajunta Pall was over 20,000 years before Kreia's time. . .

correct