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Who wins?

Personally i believe that this a very close fight with Ludo taking it at the end.

I agree very close fight.. As powerful as DN Luke is I don't think he can fully contend with an ancient sith.

Againt Ludo? He stands a good chance.

I know he does, but he most likely will not win, at least more often than not.. An Ancient Sith is an Ancient Sith.

Against Ludo? Luke destroys him. Luke's already proven adept at fighting their tools and he's only gotten a helluva lot stronger since then

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Against Ludo? Luke destroys him. Luke's already proven adept at fighting their tools and he's only gotten a helluva lot stronger since then

Yea, he's proven he was able to fight powerful ancient sith.. Do me a favor and don't post again lightsnake, youre sucking all the enjoyment out of logical arguments.

He's taken on their devices and Luke's pretty much the strongest force of light that's ever existed in the galaxy.

Here we go with unwarranted hyperbole. How does that entail his defeat of an ancient sith? OH wait, it doesn't... Thanks for playing.

and how does that entail Ludo's defeat of Luke? Wait, it doesn't, you're arguing with the facts and providing nothing of your own, thanks for playing. Good night

Embarassing yourself with illogical arguments doesn't suit well for an outcast Lightsnake, so stop posting because each post is more ridiculous than the previous. The Ancient sith were the most powerful, this is fact. You can cry and ***** all you want with hyperbole but the fact remains their power was unrivaled.

Ok, show me exactly where it says it. The exact, Lucas-said, undebateable quote saying "The Ancient Sith empire was much stronger than any other force group that ever existed."

LOL! This is why youre a horrible debater. You lose an argument then you beg for an exact quote that doesn't exist, nor diminishes my argument. THat's like saying "Show me where it says Palpatine can defeat Marka Ragnos". Sound stupid? Welcome to your argument.

Ah, so the quote doesn't exist? Very interesting

Actually no because it doesn't do anything to the argument and makes you look competely retarded with your illogical nonsense.. Mission accomplished Lightsnake...

You completely miss the point tdtd. Until there is an exact quote saying that 'The Ancient Sith empire was much stronger than any other force group that ever existed', it is only your opinion and not a fact.

Exactly, and Tdtd you are arguing out of anger and throwing out pathetic insults at LightSnake, when you yourself cant prove why the Ancients were so much more powerful then anyone that ever existed. Luke studied the dark arts. He knows about the powers of the dark side, so he knows his enemy well.

That's a good point.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Exactly, and Tdtd you are arguing out of anger and throwing out pathetic insults at LightSnake, when you yourself cant prove why the Ancients were so much more powerful then anyone that ever existed. Luke studied the dark arts. He knows about the powers of the dark side, so he knows his enemy well.


Actually no, I'm not angry, but this forum produces a bunch of noobs in the morning so I have to deal with the stupidity. You don't NEED a quote to find out who's better than who, otherwise this forum would be pointless, and so would the entire star wars universe, so your point is ridiculous. I'll use my other example, you don't need a quote saying Michael Jordan is better than Lebron for it to be true, that's just ridiculous. I know Luke studied the dark side but what does that say about him facing someone who lived in the pinnacle of dark side power? Aboslutely nothing bro, you two need to use logic, not ridiculous arguments that have no merit.

Well it's completely obvious that Jordan is a better player then james. However Sadow is pretty close to Sidious and Luke, so it's a matter of opinion.

Sadow is CLOSE to Sidious? Sadow is above Sidious, unless of course youre saying Sidious>Kun, and Sidious>Nadd, and you'd be factually wrong.

You still don't get it. IMO Sidious is better then Sadow. In your opinion he is not. These are all opinions, not facts.

No, Sidious>Sadow your opinion. Sadow>Sidious=fact.. There have been many threads with this, you must be new here considering the fact that you think Sidious>any of the ancient sith, much less most of the TOTJ characters. Sadow is beyond Sidious in power, Sidious is the greatest sith lord because he conquered the galaxy. He is nowhere NEAR the most powerful, this is a FACT. I can name you 5-10 Jedi/Sith that are greater in power than him, while Sadow only has Ragnos to look up to

Dude you cannot prove that Sadow was stronger then Sidious. It is therefore not a fact.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, how long have you been on this forum exactly, maybe you should read up on some threads.. Let's see..
Sidious has no answer for Sadow's amulet blasts, raw power, force abilites, wielding a powerful sword as fast a lightsaber, sith alchemy, etc..
Sidious has nothing that would come remotely close to Sadow, he isn't in the same league is Sadow, to even suggest something like that is pure fanboyism

Again td, it's your opinion that Siidous has 'no answer' to all of those things that you just mentioned.

My opinion when I've just listed facts that you can't refute at all? Not to mention you can't even show me 1 thing that Sidious would have on Sadow? Wow, that's some infallible logic.. Or as they say in the greatest country in the world:

http://images.funagain.com/cover/medium/15564.jpg

Okay, so prove Sadow could counter a force storm or any of the techniques Sidious himself created, especially as only the lightside can counter the force storm.
Also clarify that Sidious had mastered every technique, from the empire as well. And you believe Sadow could counter all those things, well...Sidious was learning FROM the Ancients and knew their darkest secrets himself.

And, Td's points collapse as usual

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Okay, so prove Sadow could counter a force storm or any of the techniques Sidious himself created, especially as only the lightside can counter the force storm.
Also clarify that Sidious had mastered every technique, from the empire as well. And you believe Sadow could counter all those things, well...Sidious was learning FROM the Ancients and knew their darkest secrets himself.

And, Td's points collapse as usual

Prove Sadow can counter a technique derived by the ancient sith? Error #1.
It can only be countered by the lightside? Error #2
Sidious mastered what exactly? What is "Every" technique? That's real specific and real canon lightsnake. Error #3
Sidious learned from the ancients, but what? Sidious learned from the ancients while Sadow WAS an ancient who learned from the greatest magician(Simus).

In other words lightsnake, your Sidious argument has been ripped to shreds millions of times, which is why you left this forum to begin with. Bringing the same arguments back make it easy for me to make you look like a fool.
It is no wonder you disappear as soon as Nai, Illustrious, Janus, or even IKC post.

The force storm was derived from the ancient sith? News to me.

Yes, it was.. Maybe not in the same form as DE Sidious showed, but the Force storm was indeed derived from the ancient sith.

According to who?

TOTJ Companion.

Well, that he himself created it comes from the DE mythos, albeit it could've been retconned, but Sidious's usage of it far surpassed anything else seen...and that was directly written. And every technique of the dark side, plain and simple. Yeah, it's canon, it's written right down.

And unlike Sadow, Sidious had access to Marka personally, Tulak, Dathka...and any other dead Sith, all of whom respected him and viewed him very highly.

And you're a liar. where's it said Simus was the 'greatest magician' or the Dark Lord of the Sith?

You're right, Nai didn't bring it up to you, IKC didn't bring it up to you, I love how you play stupid when other people aren't around when you KNOW facts... And shut up with "Well Sidious SUPPOSEDLY had this".. Yea, Sadow DIDNT have access to Ragnos, or ancient sith alchemy, or Simus.. You look dumber with every post when you decide to play stupid.

Simus taught Sadow, that he got anything from Ragnos is an unsupported assumption, thanks.

And no, Sidious did have that: It's written right down

Saying "Sidious learned everything" means absolutely shit in reality, and in a logical argument. There's nothing to even remotely suggest Sidious is anywhere near Sadow's level, how many times does this forum have to call you a Sidious fanboy before you get the hint?

By looking at this, I'd say tdtd has already lost the debate on account of his resorting to petty insults and trying to establish his opinion - however much it has been verified and agreed with by others - as fact.

Originally posted by Faunus
By looking at this, I'd say tdtd has already lost the debate on account of his resorting to petty insults and trying to establish his opinion - however much it has been verified and agreed with by others - as fact.


How does one lose a debate because I resort to insults, since some people can't understand facts FAnus? Nice logic, not to mention I'm just verifying things all over for people that either know nothing, or are playing dumb.. But I guess with your logic, as soon as I call someone a dumbass, I have lost a debate I can and have easily argued for.

Oh, so the DE sourcebook doesn't count as canon in TD's world?

Tell me, what does "he learned everything" mean? Lightsnake you go in circles with your nonsense and you've been doing that ever since you came back and you have been proven wrong EVERY time.. I insult you because it's the same thing over and over, whether you can't read, or you're just in denial. Face the FACTS already..
http://home.earthlink.net/~cgerena/duhlogo.gif

...hm, what does 'he learned all techniques' mean? Well, first break it down:
He: Pronoun referring to the male subject
All: Inclusive, meaning 'every' or, pertaining to entire source of the subject
Learned: Verb, meaning 'to have gained information

So...it's written down canonically, so...

So you've just admitted you're a moron with that post.

Seriously, tdtd, is there a need for the insults? I don't remember Lightsnake including anything rude in that post, nor, as it would pertain to your post, that he's shown his idiocy.

Originally posted by tdtd
So you've just admitted you're a moron with that post.

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8872/noob5jy.jpg

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Seriously, tdtd, is there a need for the insults? I don't remember Lightsnake including anything rude in that post, nor, as it would pertain to your post, that he's shown his idiocy.


Perhaps you should reread the entire thread full of illogical nonsense. If calling someone stupid because he sounds stupid is wrong, then I don't want to be right(As Michael Bolton says).. VEneficius, stay out troll.

Originally posted by tdtd
Perhaps you should reread the entire thread full of illogical nonsense. If calling someone stupid because he sounds stupid is wrong, then I don't want to be right(As Michael Bolton says).. VEneficius, stay out troll.
Look! It's TDTD!

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2707/royalguard4dt.gif

I have read the entire thread - quite a few times actually, but it's only filled with insults being tossed around. And, illogical nonsense from you as well:



Lightsnake responded (albeit I could smell a tad bit of sarcasm -- which may or may not have been the case), and you responded with "you've admitted you're a moron".

That makes sense to you? If that's what makes sense to you, then I don't want to make sense.

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8872/noob5jy.jpg

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
Look! It's TDTD!

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2707/royalguard4dt.gif

You just called me a hot asian, way to go.

Originally posted by tdtd
You just called me a hot asian, way to go.
No... what I called you is a mutated chick with a ugly asian head.

aka hot, thanks for the compliment troll..

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
Look! It's TDTD!

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2707/royalguard4dt.gif

Umm...dont post that.

Yeah, that is oddly entertaining, and I really wish it wasn't... umm.... moving on!!! Luke wins! Aha, ha? Umm... well.... I lose...

lol

Originally posted by tdtd
aka hot, thanks for the compliment troll..

Aren't you a guy? It's just that I don't know any man who would think of being called a hot asian girl a compliment, not that the girl's even hot.

Iunno am I?

Doubtful.

All man all the time, tools.

Originally posted by Faunus
Doubtful.


lol

Originally posted by tdtd
All man all the time, tools.


Yes, we all know your sexual preference.

........yes how bout the topic of this thread, i think that since luke was trained by obiwan and yoda he would adapt to their styles while making his own and advancing in his skill and form.. but i don't think that he has progressed enough to defeat an ancient sith lord alone, because the more jedi the weaker the sith, unless, however, in sids case the sith are in hiding

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
........yes how bout the topic of this thread, i think that since luke was trained by obiwan and yoda he would adapt to their styles while making his own and advancing in his skill and form.. but i don't think that he has progressed enough to defeat an ancient sith lord alone, because the more jedi the weaker the sith, unless, however, in sids case the sith are in hiding

Im sorry, I couldnt extract what you were trying to say here.

i was saying that luke has progressed, but not in the amount he would need to defeat a very powerful sith lord my proof is in there, however i am too lazy to retype it

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
i was saying that luke has progressed, but not in the amount he would need to defeat a very powerful sith lord my proof is in there, however i am too lazy to retype it

Proof? All I see is speculation...that hardly even makes sense.

look whatever, Kressh was an ancient sith lord from a time when palpatine would be mocked and made fun of, but Luke could barely beat vader in rotj and he had hardly any jedi training methods after JA, plus he couldn't possibly become as strong a kressh in the years between puny ROTJ and DN there's no way

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
look whatever, Kressh was an ancient sith lord from a time when palpatine would be mocked and made fun of, but Luke could barely beat vader in rotj and he had hardly any jedi training methods after JA, plus he couldn't possibly become as strong a kressh in the years between puny ROTJ and DN there's no way


Im sorry, I cant even begin to argue with you because you really dont even have an argument. Arguments are built on facts, and then you work the facts to speculate a certain outcome, but you have no facts...only speculation.

then give me facts about kressh

other than what you learn from kotor

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
then give me facts about kressh


You want me to supply *you* with an argument? Sorry Im not going to debate against myself. It is your responsibility to look up information about what your going to debate about, then use the information to form a valid argument. I suggest you read 'the golden age of the sith' and 'tales of the jedi' if you really want to learn more.

i wonder how some of you managed to breathe throughout your lives

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
other than what you learn from kotor
There is alot about Kressh in TOTJ.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and how does that entail Ludo's defeat of Luke? Wait, it doesn't, you're arguing with the facts and providing nothing of your own, thanks for playing. Good night You know, you're really annoying. Add to that, one of the biggest hypocrits on the boards.

not to mention he copies my lines verbatim

Originally posted by NineCoronas
You know, you're really annoying. Add to that, one of the biggest hypocrits on the boards.

This coming from a complete unkown, who trolls insults people and posts 4 days later. Seriously shat up.

and the fanboys unite.

tdtd, are you plain ignorant or just stupid? So far you've managed to be a hypocrite, a troll and a bad debator, oh ye why do you steal what Janus does? Its not cool.

Even though i think Ludo takes this, your completely illogical and unreasonable put the fight in Luke's favour, seriously learn to debate, not once have you out-debated Lightsnake, or anyone else with the exception of Numan.

HOly shit, you really don't know how to read do you? I would call what you're doing trolling considering I never put the fight in Luke's favor and I've debated this issue thoroughly and correctly. All of your nonsense is ridiculous speculation considering I have had people agree with me on many occasions, and yes I have outdebated a lot. Your hatred for me is obvious but don't making up shit won't change anything... Learn to read and stop lying to yourself. Read your ridiculous nonsense before you spew out more.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
You know, you're really annoying. Add to that, one of the biggest hypocrits on the boards.

And you contribute so much to the forum, thanks for playing.

Can someone just mark Td for the mods? He bashes enough to get about ten bans

I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter