Liquid Snake Vs Gray Fox

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Tidas
Who would win this battle of steal big grin??

IcePunk
Liquid has a steel weapon ? blink

samishe
Solid beat Fox, so I believe Liquid would too, but I also wonder what weapon are you talking about?

Kaithen
Lol... its no weapon dumbboys.... Its just a word for a hard battle :P

samishe
Teach me to be as clever as you are!pray

Kaithen
Well... ok big grin

samishe
Liquid wins anyway.

Superboy Prime
My money's on Liquid.

I mean...

even for just being a chopped off arm he still kicks ass.

You can't go wrong with that.

samishe
Are we talking about Liquid Snake or Liquid Ocelot BTW?

Tidas
About Liquid Snake



But Fox is super fast.

Sam Z
Ok then, Liquid Snake wins. I mean, Snake won.
Liquid Ocelot is too old to fight Fox h2h and bullets are usless against him.

Tidas
But they can use weapons.
Not only h2h

Sam Z
Originally posted by Tidas
But they can use weapons.
Not only h2h

I can't think of any weapon that'd be a threat for Fox.

Tidas
Oki
`Then no weapon big grin

Sam Z
Liquid rules cool

kamikz
WTF I barley get how the fight is now. Snake defeated Fox, at least made him run away, when both were carrying weapons, I'd say Liquid got a chance. Besides, if Liquid can take down 3 choppers with a handgun I'm pretty sure Fox will have a hard time with him....
Unarmed I'd say that he wins.

Superboy Prime
Wait...when did Liquid take down 3 choppers with a handgun?

WTF? When did this happen? *Must see this*

Best I remember is Liquid shooting down 2 F-16s with the Hind D--which by itself is an amazing feat.

Sam Z
Anyway Liquid is the same as Snake in every aspect. Snake beat Fox, so I believe Liquid would either.

Superboy Prime
I agree. Liquid Snake has what it takes to put Fox down. Fact of the matter is the only thing that stopped Liquid from blowing Solid's brains was FOXDIE.

Sam Z
Yeah, and even after that he returned again. One of my favourite villians everbig grin

Superboy Prime
Yep one of my favorite villains ever as well. Hell he is the perfect rival. And he did prove in a way he was the superior twin. No matter what Solid Snake does to him Liquid just keeps on coming back.

kamikz
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Wait...when did Liquid take down 3 choppers with a handgun?

WTF? When did this happen? *Must see this*

Best I remember is Liquid shooting down 2 F-16s with the Hind D--which by itself is an amazing feat.

it isen't seenable, I remember Ocelot said it, or mabey it was some other place with facts. Meh, whatever.....

But I still think Fox will have a really hard time with Liquid armed, and Liquid can take a hell of a lot of damage. (Falling down from Metal Gear, being blown up inside a Hind D, being shot at from Snake, being blown up inside Metal Gear).


And are you saying he is better than Snake? He is not. Even after Snake had been shot, blown, crushed, captured, having an awefull amount of lightning going through his body, and tired from running around, fighting everybody, he kicked Liquids ass in unarmed combat, defeated Liquid when on the cars (dodged his bullets and knocked him down, and defeated him when he was in several veichles/superweapons). Snake was the superior, even though his genes wasen't the dominant. (Which means jack by the way).

Thanos_6383
Liquid..

Superboy Prime
If you're talking about what Ocelot says about Liquid when Snake is in the torture room than no. He did not take down 2 choppers with a handgun. He destroyed 2 F-16s with the Hind D. The 2 F-16s that took off in the beginning of Snake's mission to cause a distraction.

I didn't mean he was better than Solid Snake, but he took everything Snake dished out and came back for more. I know that the message of MGS is that genes don't determine what people are. Trust me I know my MGS.

PS - When did Solid Snake get shot during Shadow Moses? I don't remember that happening. He did get shot at a lot, but I don't remember any bullets hitting him. Are you talking about Naked Snake in MGS3 when he got shot in the knee and eye?

Edit: Ohhh you mean when Sniper Wolf shot him before their 2nd encounter(PSX)? I don't know if that counts though. Had that really happened Snake would have been dead right there.

Edit 2: In my opinion the only reason Snake managed to defeat Liquid was because of Liquid's state of mind and his inferiority complex. That's my opinion though, and I do not wish to argue it for the time being. It's a little late over here.

Sam Z
True, genes don't determine what people are, as far as I know Snake was the one who got all negative Big Boss genes (Liquid called it "rubbish"wink. But still Liquid and Solid are very the same in their combat abilities.

kamikz
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
If you're talking about what Ocelot says about Liquid when Snake is in the torture room than no. He did not take down 2 choppers with a handgun. He destroyed 2 F-16s with the Hind D. The 2 F-16s that took off in the beginning of Snake's mission to cause a distraction.

I didn't mean he was better than Solid Snake, but he took everything Snake dished out and came back for more. I know that the message of MGS is that genes don't determine what people are. Trust me I know my MGS.

PS - When did Solid Snake get shot during Shadow Moses? I don't remember that happening. He did get shot at a lot, but I don't remember any bullets hitting him. Are you talking about Naked Snake in MGS3 when he got shot in the knee and eye?

Edit: Ohhh you mean when Sniper Wolf shot him before their 2nd encounter(PSX)? I don't know if that counts though. Had that really happened Snake would have been dead right there.

Edit 2: In my opinion the only reason Snake managed to defeat Liquid was because of Liquid's state of mind and his inferiority complex. That's my opinion though, and I do not wish to argue it for the time being. It's a little late over here.

I don't think that was it, but I may have gotten it switched around....

Ok. And yes, Solid Snake got shot in the arm by Ocelot when he was standing outside the room listening to him and Liquid, still he ignored it. And well....if Sniper Wolfs shot counts he is one hell of a fighter....

K I won't start an argument if you don't want to, IMO Snake defeated him, I don't think the genes matter at all, and Liquid said he would defeat Snake no matter what, and Snake had been fighting through hell before he came here....
And dominant genes only mean that you look a like, or get similar eye color, that kind of stuff. It has NOTHING to do with fighting, unless this is something weird in MGS. And recessive doesn't mean weaker either, if blue eye colour is recessive, and brown is dominant, you often get brown, but blue isen't any weaker. Snake simply got genes from another person in Big Boss familly, probably from way behind...

One thing that bothers me is that Snake got his voice, and is the only one who got his voice, shouldn't that be one of his dominant sides?

Sam Z
Originally posted by kamikz
I don't think that was it, but I may have gotten it switched around....

Ok. And yes, Solid Snake got shot in the arm by Ocelot when he was standing outside the room listening to him and Liquid, still he ignored it. And well....if Sniper Wolfs shot counts he is one hell of a fighter....

K I won't start an argument if you don't want to, IMO Snake defeated him, I don't think the genes matter at all, and Liquid said he would defeat Snake no matter what, and Snake had been fighting through hell before he came here....
And dominant genes only mean that you look a like, or get similar eye color, that kind of stuff. It has NOTHING to do with fighting, unless this is something weird in MGS. And recessive doesn't mean weaker either, if blue eye colour is recessive, and brown is dominant, you often get brown, but blue isen't any weaker. Snake simply got genes from another person in Big Boss familly, probably from way behind...

One thing that bothers me is that Snake got his voice, and is the only one who got his voice, shouldn't that be one of his dominant sides?

Genes are not yet fully studied so it's hard to judge if they have something to do with human's strength.

kamikz
ok, but I still don't think it matters much, I mean, from what we know Big Boss could have much stronger grandparents or something like that... Also, it is dependent on how they were trained as well, Snake got personal training from Big Boss for example...

Sam Z
And Liquid wasn't personally trained by him (right?) and still as taugh as Snake, so I guess genes matter here aswell. Even in his last speech in MGS2 Snake said that there are some things that genes do not determine like love culture etc. He didn't said anything about combat abillities...

kamikz
WTF. Just because Big Boss was the best soldier doesn't mean Liquid can get good traning as well. He fought in many wars and in the British forces, and was taught many techniques as well. How do you figure that someone getting the genes of his dad turns into a super soldier without traning?
I am merely saying that because Snake was trained by Big Boss he overcame Liquid, that does not mean Liquid got much much lesser traning or lesser techniques...

And btw, I'm not 100% sure that Snake got trained by Big Boss anyway, he was his leader, but I'm not sure he trained him. And if you watch the final cut scene in Twin Snakes (when Snake fights Liquid) you see that they use the EXACT same attacks against eachother, but Snake has superior speed and overcomes him in the end...

Sam Z
Originally posted by kamikz
WTF. Just because Big Boss was the best soldier doesn't mean Liquid can get good traning as well. He fought in many wars and in the British forces, and was taught many techniques as well. How do you figure that someone getting the genes of his dad turns into a super soldier without traning?
I am merely saying that because Snake was trained by Big Boss he overcame Liquid, that does not mean Liquid got much much lesser traning or lesser techniques...

And btw, I'm not 100% sure that Snake got trained by Big Boss anyway, he was his leader, but I'm not sure he trained him. And if you watch the final cut scene in Twin Snakes (when Snake fights Liquid) you see that they use the EXACT same attacks against eachother, but Snake has superior speed and overcomes him in the end...

My point was that even if I was trained by Big Boss from my childhood there would be no way for me to become as taugh as Solid or Liquid, so genes also matter here.

Superboy Prime
For the record Ocelot shot the PAL key out of Snake's hand. He did not hit Snake at all.

kamikz
In MGS 1 he did, Snake's arm is visible, not the Pal key. You can only see his eldbow there. If there is something totally new there in Twin Snakes then ok, but that's not the case in MGS. And who had mentioned it before? (For the record?????)

And wether or not he has been shot does not really matter, Snake had been runing awefully long, been tortured, been blown up, possibly been scartched or shot, been in several fightis with unarmed combat, and Pshyco mantis which could have done anything against him. Liquid was during that fight in much better shape then Snake because he had time to rest and stand around 90% of the day....

And how do you say that there is no way someone can become as good as Solid or Liquid? Ocelot was probably a better/equal shot to them both, and Raven was a hell of a lot stronger, even without an exo skelletton. Snake defeated Big Boss himself as a rookie, but he has Big Boss recessive genes. If it really mattered then Snake would have lost there....

Sam Z
Originally posted by kamikz

And how do you say that there is no way someone can become as good as Solid or Liquid? Ocelot was probably a better/equal shot to them both, and Raven was a hell of a lot stronger, even without an exo skelletton. Snake defeated Big Boss himself as a rookie, but he has Big Boss recessive genes. If it really mattered then Snake would have lost there....

Ocelot is a taugh Soldier and he did good h2h with Big Boss but Big Boss was tired then besides Solid Snake and Liquid seem to be superior than Big Boss. You can't become as taugh as they are by simply training for all your life. They are obviously non ordinary humans.

Superboy Prime
Twin Snakes makes it the PAL key, and even if Ocelot's shot actually hit Snake's shoulder Solid wouldn't be able to do anything with that arm. It's one powerful caliber. Snake did not get blown up either. Unless he is invulnerable getting blown up would splatter his organs/remains all over the place. True they tried to do it, but they failed.

While Liquid was having fun in the control room Snake was doing all the dirty work, I give him that. However Liquid was the one inside REX when it got blown up by Snake's stinger. In fact he was in the place(cockpit) the Stinger was aimed at, and even after all of the explosions taking place he remains conscious and drags Solid's ass all the way on top of Rex. What I mean by this is that neither combatant was at full strength nor health.

Edit: The whole dominant/recessive genes point of MGS was that they managed to create a version of Big Boss without flaws. That's how the genes are looked at in the MGS world. It's funny though because Liquid has blonde hair, and that is a recessive gene. Though there is no such thing as recessive/dominant genes. It's actually another term, but it escapes my memory for the moment. Liquid also commented about how they(the scientists) were able to identify more than 60 soldier genes. So it's possible they simply talked about recessive/dominant soldier genes.

Anyways the point of MGS was that you are not governed by your genes. It kind of pisses me off that in MGS4 Snake is now attempting to wipe his bloodline from existence because he can't let his sins go on. WTF Kojima? Genes didn't matter at all, and now they do? Damn youuuu!

Edit 2: The whole Snake was tired argument is kind of pointless in my opinion. Snake didn't show any signs of fatigue during his Shadow Moses infiltration except when he was tortured. An ordinary being would be tired no less, but we're talking about a clone of the greatest soldier in the 20th century. Not to mention his suit and the nanomachines kept him at top performance for the entire mission.

kamikz
Wait, first you say it's impossible for Snake to be shot or blown, but when Liquid gets a stinger in his face it is fully possible for him to survive. He might have jumped out in the last second, he did not show any signs of burn wounds.

I didn't mean blown up, I just ment that he experienced many explosions, like getting hit by MG's explosion and being knocked unconscious, and the Hind almost blew him to pieces.

No, but if you look at it logical, Snake has gone through hell, he might not show it, but you should know that if you run 3 km, then someone tells you to run 60m directly after, your not exactly gonna break a record. Snake had no rest and was wounded, he was in worse shape than Liquid was at the moment, neither might have been at their fullest, but Snake was in a WAY worse situation...

And the fact that when they were in the cars, Snake DODGED all of Liquids machine gun fire and kicked his ass on the car, and made him loose control, again defeated him.


Been bothering me too, Snake has the same hair colour, AND the same voice. And how can we know for sure that Ocelot was right? (I'm pretty sure he was but....)

Superboy Prime
True it's possible Liquid jumped out at the last second, but we don't really see it. But then again we hear him screaming and shouting before he he has REX attempt to stomp Snake right before the Metal Gear finally blows up. In Twin Snakes Liquid's seen bleeding and burnt. We also get to see Snake's wounds. And the cars ordeal isn't that big to me. Snake was simply shooting at Liquid while Liquid was driving and shooting at the same time. Liquid also dodged all of Snake's gunfire. How exactly will Liquid fight someone like Solid Snake and drive at the same time? If he was able to do it I'd consider him a god.

I also wonder how we switched this from Liquid vs Fox to Liquid vs Solid. On topic I believe if Snake was capable of handling Fox in his suit then Liquid definitely can. But then again IMO Snake being able to defeat Fox in his suit was PIS.

kamikz
There is really no possiblity for him to survive such a crash, I've realized that, Liquid should have died if he didn't jump out. And most of his wounds comes from the Metal Gear crash.

We see Liquid coming up beside him, Snake jumping over to his car, dodgin all fire from point blank range, and kicking his ass, + he has been shooting all kinds of soldiers on the way..... Well whatever..

In an unarmed battle, Snake is superior to Liquid. In an armed battle, Snake matched Ocelot (who is damn good), dodged machine gun fire and dodged missiles from a Hind D. I'd say Snake is pretty capable of winning an armed battle with Liquid too, no, I'm pretty sure he will.
LOL, I agree. Shall we skip this Liquid vs Solid stuff? (I didn't realize you said that until I wrote that. ^ )

Well, it was not, and yes, Liquid defeates Fox.

kamikz
Also, this...

Initially, Liquid attacks Snake from a Hind D attack helicopter, but retreats when his helicopter is crippled by Snake's missile fire from his Stinger. He survives (his parachute is visible on a tree in the Snowfield of the base). Liquid was not in the acctual explosion.

Sam Z
Originally posted by kamikz
There is really no possiblity for him to survive such a crash, I've realized that, Liquid should have died if he didn't jump out. And most of his wounds comes from the Metal Gear crash.

We see Liquid coming up beside him, Snake jumping over to his car, dodgin all fire from point blank range, and kicking his ass, + he has been shooting all kinds of soldiers on the way..... Well whatever..

In an unarmed battle, Snake is superior to Liquid. In an armed battle, Snake matched Ocelot (who is damn good), dodged machine gun fire and dodged missiles from a Hind D. I'd say Snake is pretty capable of winning an armed battle with Liquid too, no, I'm pretty sure he will.
LOL, I agree. Shall we skip this Liquid vs Solid stuff? (I didn't realize you said that until I wrote that. ^ )

Well, it was not, and yes, Liquid defeates Fox.

What do you mean no really possibility to survive?? You are talking about the guy who survived fall from MG and survived fall in helicopter, besides even Snake was fine after the crush so why Liquid can't??

It's hard to say who is superior in unarmed battle because before Liquid fell from MG he was still ready to keep fighting, may be Snake just was lucky to punch him from the roof, if they were fighting in some different place fight could've gone other way. And I believe Liquid matches Ocelot aswell in armed fight and dodging bullets is typical for every MGS character.

kamikz
As I said, he used a parachute to survive the crash with the helecopter.

And Snake was much more damaged, tired and wounded when they fought. And Snake had just previousley fainted. Have you ever fainted? You feel sick and have a hard time standing up, still he kicks Liquid's ass. Yeah, they were pretty equal, but Snake proved faster and stronger in the end. Did you see that punch? It made him fly mabey 4 meters up in the air and far away.... It was the same terrain for both, Snake had same chance of falling down as Liquid, but Snake overcame him...

Kaithen
10 points to kamikz ;D

Sam Z
Originally posted by kamikz
As I said, he used a parachute to survive the crash with the helecopter.

And Snake was much more damaged, tired and wounded when they fought. And Snake had just previousley fainted. Have you ever fainted? You feel sick and have a hard time standing up, still he kicks Liquid's ass. Yeah, they were pretty equal, but Snake proved faster and stronger in the end. Did you see that punch? It made him fly mabey 4 meters up in the air and far away.... It was the same terrain for both, Snake had same chance of falling down as Liquid, but Snake overcame him...

When Rex explode Liquid was inside while Snake was standing in a distance so explosion effeted Liquid even more than Snake but Snake fainted, Liquid not. And I don't remember any parachute in the game.
Snake had the same chances of falling, yes but sometimes it is about luck. If Liquid didn't fell from there he would've continued fighting and it's hard to say what would've happened. I'm not saying Liquid is better than Snake. I think they are equel.

kamikz
He doesn't necessarily have to be as wounded. Metal Gear did NOT explode, it just fell and stopped working, also, Liquid was quite safe inside it. He had some blood on him, I'll give him that, but no burn wounds or grave wounds at all. Snake got hit by an explosion outside and flew into a wall and hit his head. Then he lost consciounsness, and he was damn tired before that too.....

It was hanging in a tree..

Yeah, but Snake did outspeed him, and if Liquid only fell on the ground Snake might have been all over him rushing out more punches before he got up, it took a damn long time for Liquid to come after them, and then he had to defuse the bomb and had a love scene with Meryl. shifty
But I agree that they are pretty much equal, but in the end Snake takes it, from what we have seen, I'm pretty sure he takes it...

Sam Z
Originally posted by kamikz
He doesn't necessarily have to be as wounded. Metal Gear did NOT explode, it just fell and stopped working, also, Liquid was quite safe inside it. He had some blood on him, I'll give him that, but no burn wounds or grave wounds at all. Snake got hit by an explosion outside and flew into a wall and hit his head. Then he lost consciounsness, and he was damn tired before that too.....

It was hanging in a tree..

Yeah, but Snake did outspeed him, and if Liquid only fell on the ground Snake might have been all over him rushing out more punches before he got up, it took a damn long time for Liquid to come after them, and then he had to defuse the bomb and had a love scene with Meryl. shifty
But I agree that they are pretty much equal, but in the end Snake takes it, from what we have seen, I'm pretty sure he takes it...

Well, may be. But he wasn't defusing the bomb. confused

Ritoshi
http://www.zippyvideos.com/1181026151147226/fox1/ no expression

kamikz
We are all fully aware of that, I still say Liquid.

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