Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Setting is on the plains of Dantooine.

Should be a replay of the ROTS fight.

Sidious was holding back in that fight in ROTS. Plus Sidious wouldn't have had much time to improve between TPM and ROTS. He was to busy hiding his identity from the jedi and plotting to destroy them. Whereas Mace would have likely improved by a higher margin between AOTC and ROTS, as war does bring out the best in a warrior and Mace was off fighting in the clone wars. He would have definitely gained more experience and become more powerful by the time of ROTS, so I see Sidious taking this.

Sidious was NOT holding back. According to Lucas, Windu overpowered him. The only thing Sidious faked is having no power left after being WTFpwned by Windu.

Well if he had power left he must have been holding it back, hence the fact everyone thinks he was holding back!!!

Over powering is not the same as making sure the opponent has no power. Obviously Sidious had huge amounts of power left; Mace himself knew that which could be one of the reasons why he approached the matter of killing him slowly. Mace "overpowered" Sidious because he cut open the window and kicked his lightsaber out of his hand.

overpowered could be taken different ways. Perhaps Sidious didn't fight to his full ability and neglected use of the force, it's too convenient Anakin comes in right then, given the scenario and the 'no coincidences' thing

Originally posted by Swirly Girl
Should be a replay of the ROTS fight.

What's this rant about Sidious faking his duel with Mace Windu? Does anyone actually bear any source of proof to actually have the gull to say he threw the fight? Or is it just Sidious Lovers who spit this crap out because they wouldn't want Sidious to look like Mace's puppet. Lucas stated in the DVD Commentary that Mace overpowered Sidious. This is also explained in the Databank as well. Sorry Sidious fanboys. Maybe another day.

It is strange because Sidious destroyed Tiin, Kolar and Fisto in the blink of an eye. And then he got 'beaten' by Mace "omgbadass" Windu almost right when Anakin enters the room, when he knows Anakin is coming.

Even if Palpatine was going all out in the force and saber fight; the entire fight was inconclusive. It's premature to say that Mace would kill Palpatine.

Originally posted by Razielim
It is strange because Sidious destroyed Tiin, Kolar and Fisto in the blink of an eye. And then he got 'beaten' by Mace "omgbadass" Windu almost right when Anakin enters the room, when he knows Anakin is coming.

Even if Palpatine was going all out in the force and saber fight; the entire fight was inconclusive. It's premature to say that Mace would kill Palpatine.

Okay, now let's get back to Logicland.

All three of the Jedi he murdered had insufficient Lightsaber dueling skills compared to Mace Windu. At that point, Windu was basically the posterboy for bad ass Lightsaber dueling. He had created an extremely effective form of Lightsaber combat and was quite deadly about using it.

And Mace had already outmaneuvered Palpatine before Skywalker entered the Office.

Sidious began to plea and beg after his final attempt to destroy Mace, which was a failure.

Okay, now let's get back to Logicland.

Okay.

All three of the Jedi he murdered had insufficient Lightsaber dueling skills compared to Mace Windu. At that point, Windu was basically the posterboy for bad ass Lightsaber dueling. He had created an extremely effective form of Lightsaber combat and was quite deadly about using it.

This is true. However, Kolar, Tiin and Fisto (esspecially Fisto) are among the best duelists in the Order. It's strange to see them all get dominated so fast.

And Mace had already outmaneuvered Palpatine before Skywalker entered the Office.

Yes, by a few seconds.

Sidious began to plea and beg after his final attempt to destroy Mace, which was a failure.

But as we know, he faked having power reserves (He begins faking when he appeals to Anakin in the: "I have the power to save the one you love!".) Palpatine is never overpowered in the force-saber fight because he gives up to lure Anakin to the dark side.

What we last see in the "going all out" part is Palpatine shooting his lightning at Mace and Mace struggling like mad to hold it. Then Palpatine starts faking, as George Lucas confirmed.

The fight was inconclusive. There's no way of determining who would win the force-saber fight in a rematch.

With that said; This is Star Wars. Things are what they seem. What you think is evil is evil, what you think is good is good.

Mace is a better duelist than Sidious because that is what Star Wars, a generally straightforward medium, shows.

"He was faking". "He was toying with him!". "He was blinded!" are usually excuses, until George Lucas says otherwise (which he did, in this case).

Sometimes it doesn't make sense; (eg. Anakin is > Dooku, and Dooku is > Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan is > Anakin, you could maybe make the same argument for Sidious > Dooku > Mace > Sidious) but this is what Lucas was intending to show.

I can easily dismiss your previous post as just a petty and proof lacking opinion.

And I'll think I'll just do exactly that in this instance.

You see, I have proof. I have the man who created the Star Wars Universe saying that Sidious was overpowered and outmaneuvered by Mace Windu. Lucas also stated that he had started faking after he launched his first powerful torrent of Sith Lightning at Windu, whom successfully blocked it.

Sidious' last resort was persuasion, and working with Anakin's gullibility and widened stupidity would be none other than a simple task for Palpatine.

No, they weren't the best or they'd have survived Palpatine's assault. Four of the best Swordsman in the order against one great Swordsman?

Those three were not the best. Where had they elsewhere displayed such awesome skills with the Lightsaber that you claim they have? The one chance they had to show that and they were all killed. It seems the only real one with any Lightsaber talent was none other than Windu.

Palpatine wanted to kill Windu during their duel, Razielim. He was going all out when it came to Palpatine's Lightsaber skills and so was Mace. Unfortunately, it turned out Palpatine had become outdueled by Mace Windu and he then tried to quickly rid of Mace (By using Lightning) before Mace decided to splurge to Anakin on how Palpatine was virtually using him as his new tool. Unfortunately, Palpatine already had the upper hand because of his long lasting friendship with the Young Jedi. Mace had the losing play because of his and Anakin's untrusting relationship. In the end, Sidious had won merely because he had Anakin in his palms, not because of his skill with a Lightsaber or because of his Force power. Mace had already proved he had won against Sidious in those fields of expertise.

I can easily dismiss your previous post as just a petty and proof lacking opinion.

I'll look forward to it

You see, I have proof. I have the man who created the Star Wars Universe saying that Sidious was overpowered and outmaneuvered by Mace Windu. Lucas also stated that he had started faking after he launched his first powerful torrent of Sith Lightning at Windu, whom successfully blocked it.

I have addressed this. Mace did block it. Blocking Palpatine's lightning for a short amount of time =/= winning the force fight. Move on.

Sidious' last resort was persuasion, and working with Anakin's gullibility and widened stupidity would be none other than a simple task for Palpatine.

?


Those three were not the best. Where had they elsewhere displayed such awesome skills with the Lightsaber that you claim they have? The one chance they had to show that and they were all killed. It seems the only real one with any Lightsaber talent was none other than Windu.

They were among the best. Kolar managed to defeat Quinlan Vos on Nar Shadaa; Fisto put up a damn good fight against Ventress, and Tiin... well, I'll back to you on him. But I assure you, they were among the best in the Order.

Palpatine wanted to kill Windu during their duel, Razielim. He was going all out when it came to Palpatine's Lightsaber skills and so was Mace. Unfortunately, it turned out Palpatine had become outdueled by Mace Windu and he then tried to quickly rid of Mace (By using Lightning)

Yes, I agree. However, the force fight was inconclusive.

Mace had already proved he had won against Sidious in those fields of expertise.

Proof for Mace winning the force fight. Again, blocking the lightning =/= winning. Palpatine stopped going all out after about 4 seconds. If he kept going all out, we don't know what would have happened!.

So, Kit losing to Ventress, Kolar barely defeating Quinlan and Sassee Tinn, whom has nothing so far, is this overwhelming force of proof that they're some of the best duelists in the Order? Um... Are you okay?

The only reason Palpatine walked out of that office with his life is because he had complete control over Anakin. Mace had defeated him in Lightsaber combat and Palpatine was unable to overcome him with the Force. Sidious lost.

So, Kit losing to Ventress, Kolar barely defeating Quinlan and Sassee Tinn, whom has nothing so far, is this overwhelming force of proof that they're some of the best duelists in the Order? Um... Are you okay?

And many EU sources claiming them to be of the best counts Cestus Deception for Fisto, RotS Novelization for all three, and add to the fact that they are Council Members.

And saying stuff like "Are you okay?" does not make you look witty in the least. Stop being childish.

The only reason Palpatine walked out of that office with his life is because he had complete control over Anakin. Mace had defeated him in Lightsaber combat and Palpatine was unable to overcome him with the Force. Sidious lost.

The force fight was inconclusive. Saying "Sidious lost" over and over again doesn't make it true.

Let me say it, again.

What we last see in the "going all out" part is Palpatine shooting his lightning at Mace and Mace struggling like mad to hold it for about 5 seconds. Then Palpatine starts faking, as George Lucas confirmed.

The fight was inconclusive. There's no way of determining who would win the force fight in a rematch.

Ok, the only part Palpatine was faking was when he was on his ass and was like, "I can't hold it any longer. I'm too weak blah blah balh." The rest of the fight, he was trying to kill Windu.

Yes. He starts when he says "I have the power to save the one you love!". This is when he starts goading Anakin to the Dark Side; playing on his feelings for Padme.


Add on: Meh, it shows he won. If George Lucas wanted to say Sidious > Mace in sabers he would have made it painfully clear in the commentary. Star Wars... is pretty straightforward.

I'd love to see someone prove how he was trying to kill Mace when everything works out oh so perfectly in a world with no coincidences

You need to relax. Nobody was trying to look witty. I apologize if I offended you, but I did not mean any harm.

But the fact is, Cestus Deception shows Kit kill a droid, the ROTS Novelisation isn't even regarded as canon due to contradiction and just because they are Council Members doesn't automatically make them good Lightsaber duelists.





Doesn't matter if I say it once or a million times, really. Sidious lost to Mace. If you've watched "Revenge of the Sith", You've seen the same thing.





Palpatine began to grow enraged and threw forth a powerful strain of Force Lightning, basically applying both hands and putting much effort into trying to electrify Mace. Mace blocked it and Anakin was in the room at that point. Since Palpatine had failed to successfully launch a force attack upon Mace, he then began to plea for help and he was basically hanging onto what he had left - Verbal persuasion.

George Lucas also confirmed that Palpatine had lost to Mace when it came to Lightsabers. And when Palpatine attempted to utilize the force, he lost again.

But the fact is, Cestus Deception shows Kit kill a droid, the ROTS Novelisation isn't even regarded as canon due to contradiction and just because they are Council Members doesn't automatically make them good Lightsaber duelists.

It also shows him impressing both Mace Windu and Obi-Wan. Kit was nearly as good as Kenobi at this point.

And of course it isn't canon. Only the movies are canon, in a sense. However, the RotS novelization does have a few minor contradictions, but it is generally true to the film, and should be accepted where it doesn't contradict anything. In my view, at least. it's up for debate though.

And generally, the strongest, most experienced Jedi are accepted to become Council Members. Mace, Yoda, Kenobi, etc. Special cases like Dooku and Qui-Gon were made due to their marverickism.

Palpatine began to grow enraged and threw forth a powerful strain of Force Lightning, basically applying both hands and putting much effort into trying to electrify Mace. Mace blocked it and Anakin was in the room at that point. Since Palpatine had failed to successfully launch a force attack upon Mace, he then began to plea for help and he was basically hanging onto what he had left - Verbal persuasion.

Just because he didn't win doesn't mean he lost. Palpatine clearly had power reserves left; he simply gave up and tried something new. The force fight was inconclusive.

Assume Anakin never entered. Palpatine attacks Mace and Mace blocks it.

Now, this time Palpatine won't fake having no more power reserves. What happens now? Mace was struggling to hold his lightning for a few seconds, and now Sidious keeps going. Does Mace eventually break and fly out the window? Does Palpatine actually run out of power reserves? You can't say for sure.

No. The "Revenge of the Sith" Novelisation should not be accepted as cannon due to it's fallacious nature. It's based off the script and George Lucas made several changes to the movie after the script. This includes his personal ideas.

Dooku and Qui Gon were on the council because of their strong, experienced natures. Dooku was a mastermind politician and Qui Gon was a powerful Jedi whom was true to the force.

Palpatine gave up his Lightning assault because he had lost. He lost with the Lightsabers, he could not get Mace with the force so he was forced into trying an alternative method.

Actually, Mace was redirecting the Lightning at Sidious, which caused his face to melt. He was on the verge of death and had smoke seering off of his skin. I don't see how Mace was losing there.

Because....Lucas SAID that.

Um, no, Lucas says Mace 'overpowered' Sidious and then anakin comes in where Palp feigns weakness...yes, the man who clearly wants Anakin and manipulated a galaxy for decades can't fake a small duel when everything works out EXACTLY how he wants it to

Originally posted by Lord Azrael
Actually, Mace was redirecting the Lightning at Sidious, which caused his face to melt. He was on the verge of death and had smoke seering off of his skin. I don't see how Mace was losing there.

Yes, because lightning causes longer fingernails and yellowing eyes, also.

And it changes your voice and rots your teeth!