Sephiroth vs. Ganondorf

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ESB - 1138
Before any of the fanboys come and says Sephiroth would win or Ganondorf would win allow me to example a few things:

1.) First off tell who is the better villain and why.
2.) Straight up fight. Ganondorf CANNOT transform into Ganon and Sephiroth CANNOT transform into Safer Sephiroth. Ganondorf does have his giant sword you see in the Zelda game that was never finished and in Super Smash Bros Melee. Sephiroth has his famous Marasume. Both have all their powers including powers from Super Smash Bros Melee and the battle takes place at the ruins of Midgar (Cloud vs. Kadaj/Sephiroth in Advent Children)

Dragoncloud
Well, it's a good thing someone finally set up a fanboy defense system on their thread. But i'm still gonna have to say sephy wins in both catagories.

Sephiroth was a calm, devious, and more sadistic villian than Ganondorf was. I view Ganondorf as a rather hotheaded, garudo king, who only had half his power because he just so happened to have an army behind him only because he was the only male born in that hundred or whatever years. Once he did that he gained the triforce and commanded a handful of monsters that stood in links way. So Ganondorf DOES have the numbers on his side.

Sephiroth was more of a modern day "moses" so to speak. He lead the jenova replica's to their "promised land" and practically preached his thoughts and beliefs to Cloud while all the time claiming that Cloud was one of them. He had the hero greatly confused and mixed up his morals and thoughts to the point that he didn't even know who he was. Even though he had no actual army defending him, but just a bunch of mindless slaves who never fought, he has the power in this match.

For the actual fight, ganondorf could most likely hold his ground for a bit since sephiroth will only toy wiht him for a bit, but sephiroth's speed and strength would out do ganondorf rather quickly, and even if that don't convince many, sephiroth's magic is stronger than ganondorf's even wiht the triforce of power. Even if Ganondorf transformed into Ganon (which by rules of the match he can't), He still couldn't beat Sephy becuase he'd be out done in both speed and brains. Link Has more of a chance against sephiroth than Ganondorf because he is smarter and reacts much quicker in battle, but until sephy got serious, it would be a fun match.

vanice
sephiroth can't kill ganondorf without the master sword so he's pretty ****ed.

Scorpion_Master
Well i have to say Ganondorf cuz He is Immortal like vanice said, He took over the whole Herule and he have the Triforce of Power.

ESB - 1138
2 words...Sin Harvest

Tidas
But sephiroth can't kill him because Ganondorf is Immortal

Scorpion_Master
Fin

thegmeister53
Ganondorf also has the power of a God on his side.

ESB - 1138
Sephiroth has Jenova on his. All Ganondorf has is the Triforce of Power and Ganondorf isn't Immortal because Link killed him with a Silver Arrow. So you're saying Sin Harvest which uses an angel's halo wouldn't even phase Ganondorf.

kamikz
The silver arrow was a light arrow, an arrow made of light which killed him after he had been worn down with the White Sword (which is the master sword with a new name, the other name was long lost) and it is probably the most powerful LIGHT has to offer....

ESB - 1138
No the Silver Arrow was a lesser Light Arrow. And there is no proof that the White Sword was the Master Sword. And you still haven't given me proof why Sin Harvest wouldn't do a thing.

kamikz
You have no proof it is a LESSER light arrow, from what we know it could be better....
And I read that on a FAQ place, but even if it's not true it is still one of the most powerful things that light has...

Why would it?

Dragoncloud
Originally posted by Tidas
But sephiroth can't kill him because Ganondorf is Immortal Bull, if he's immortal then that would mean that link and zelda were too, the Triforce doesn't make a S*** of difference in mortality, it just makes him really hard to kill. Sides the Masamune is a sword of legend a well, i don't think sephy's gonna need the master sword for this one. Besides, The master sword isn't ganondorf's weakness, just evil ones can never touch it, you idiots are thinking of the light arrow, and that's not to hard for sephiroth to fix, all he has to do is use a little bit of holy and infuse it with the masamune and he's got ganny beat.

Originally posted by kamikz
You have no proof it is a LESSER light arrow, from what we know it could be better....
And I read that on a FAQ place, but even if it's not true it is still one of the most powerful things that light has...

Why would it? Technically, it's the best light has to offer in their own little universe. In Sephiroth's Holy was, so by default, he could just cast a little Alexander and we could be seeing ganondorf shot down and out like a whole bunch of nothing.


i'm gonna point out something else that most people don't seem to be looking at while im working on this note, Smash Bro's. If Ganondorf truly is so great, why is he more than easily defeatable by someone as pathetic as the game and watch man? i mean for god sake's he the game and watch man! I mean if Ganny is so great then why would nintendo make him so weak in their biggest showcase battle game? I mean what did he have there that was so great? A flamming boot?

kamikz
I think Ganondorf is the best villain (but that's because I have not seen Seprioth very much), he was the king of evil and everybody you met said his hearth was made of stone and such. But then, on the top of the tower in WW, he did not seem so evil, like he had had another life before, he just seemed sad..He still wanted power but it wasn't the same thing, he is a very special villain to me....

About the fight, I think Seprioth is probably an equal fighter (mabey even better) than Ganondorf, but I don't see him killing him (because of the light thing).

Dragoncloud
What's with everyone and this light thing? I don't see how light could be the only smidgin difference here, if Seph has light, Ganondorf's screwed, and if Sephiroth doesn't then he's screwed...sorry there's more to it than that. Both of them have the most evil of hearts. Both believe they were chosen by fate to accomplish something great. I'm sure someone with a lot of magic power could easily break through sephiroth's defences without light, just Link and Zelda's magic power was far too weak so they had to seek the power of light to do it. I wouldn't say it's the strongest that light has to offer, but rather it's enough to get the job done. Besides, as i stated, Alexander would solve the light problem anyways. And none of you tell me he can't use it, he just didn't in the game. He could very easily change out his materia and use it if he willed, he just didn't want to then because he didnt' need it and why use over ecsessive power if it's unnecessary?

kamikz
Does Seprioth have a powerful light magic? (Sorry, my knowledge is lacking on him). Either way Link had the evils bane, a thing MADE to destroy Ganondorf, still, he could only wear him down long enough for the six sages to trap him, so one light attack does not result in Ganondorf's defeat. In the last Zelda, Ganon/Dorf had been captured and weakened so many times that he barley had any power left...
But could you explain more about this?

Dragoncloud
I don't know much about that, if he has barely any power remaining then that would mean that his chances of defeating sephiroth would be even lower. But that's just common sense talking for me.

kamikz
But isen't this Ocarina of Time Ganondorf? Which means he has not lost power...

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by kamikz
Does Seprioth have a powerful light magic? (Sorry, my knowledge is lacking on him). Either way Link had the evils bane, a thing MADE to destroy Ganondorf, still, he could only wear him down long enough for the six sages to trap him, so one light attack does not result in Ganondorf's defeat. In the last Zelda, Ganon/Dorf had been captured and weakened so many times that he barley had any power left...
But could you explain more about this?

Holy. Sephiroth has Holy. In Final Fantasy Holy is the ultimate White Magic. Not to mention Sin Harvest which is an auto-kill. And you can't say Sin Harvest isn't light because it uses an angel's halo.

kamikz
Does it necessarily have to be light because it is in the category "light magic"? Holy has a couple of white balls crashing down on the opponents head, which is not light as far as I know of. Besides, where is it said Seprioth got it?

Same deal with the halo, and that does not mean Ganondorf is going to die. He has survived things that are made to kill him, and his robe is undestroyable, he could just use it to fend of the halo...

caocao200
Actually... the holy we're talking about is "Final Fantasy VII" holy, it has more power than any other "white ball holy thingy" from other ff games, its the most powerful white magic, therefore the most powerful light magic. Ganondorf may be immortal, but Sephiroth is eternal.. just like freddy vs jason..

kamikz
So this can't have any winner???

And is the holy light, can you explain how it is in FF 7. And proof that Seprioth got it....

caocao200
Jenova morphed into a Sephiroth like figure, stabbed aerith (the last surviving ancient and carrier of Holy materia) with the Masamune.. has she feel into her knees, the Holy materia was dropped into underwater..(the rest i don't really remember it has been several years since i last played ffvii)... Eventually the real Sephiroth got hold of Holy materia... but he never really used it, his plan was to scar the world with meteor (the ultimate black magic) and be one with it, by fusing himself with the lifestream..I dont really know if he can use it or not, maybe FFVIIs holy can only be used for good.. i dont know, this can only be answered by real fans with knowledge bout it...

kamikz
Oh ok.. Well it has pretty much been established that Ganondorf can't die by something else than pure light, and even with that it is next to impossible....but as I said, my Sephriot facts are lacking.

ESB - 1138
Actually I was referring to the Kingdom Hearts light attack Sephiroth uses against Sora. And Holy from FF7 can only be used by pray. Sephiroth never got hold of the White Materia for it was lost in the City of the Ancients and because of that Aerith was able to use it at the end but Sephiroth was so freaking powerful that he was able to suppress Holy and prevent it from being used. Sephiroth's Marasume is able to draw in blood to it to make it stronger and that is a reason you don't see Aerith bleeding when Sephiroth stabs her.

IcePunk
It has to be the OoT version, cuz in WW he uses two samurai like swords.
And about the White sword/silver arrow thing, that was in the first Zelda game and it was against GANON, not Ganondorf but still it's basicly the same thing and procedior, the light arrows and the master sword minus its flashy effects.
Also, dont bring theories about certain FF magic working on him, cuz there's no proof of it being effective on him at all.

And besides, even if it would prove efficient, Spph's still missing one particular weapon, yes you guessed it, the Master sword.

Marasume (or was it Masamune?) is NOT the Master sword/white sword.

Ganondorf wins just cuz of his resistance against weapons other than the silver/light arrows and the Master/white sword, nice matchup though.

And even if they wouldnt be able to kill eachother, it still would not matter, no one said this is a several round fight, it's more like a fight to KO (or something close to that) fight.

ESB - 1138
Show me proof that anything outside the Zelda universe cannot hurt Ganondorf. Ganondorf may be invincible in the Zelda universe but that doesn't mean anything. Perfect Chaos was invincible but Super Sonic defeated him. Is Super Sonic invincble? Yes in his universe but that doesn't mean he's not anywhere else. Sin Harvest is a one move kill that takes away all magic points as well. Show me proof that Ganondorf would be immune to Sin Harvest.

kamikz
You have to prove that it does have an effect on him. Magic, explosions, fire, swords, nothing proved effective against Ganondorf. So tell me why there would be an exception here....
And Ganon does not need to be hit, he can fly, is very agile and has an indestructible robe. He can also take shitloads of damage as I have said before ^^^.

Burning thought
whats to say he cant just dodge it, or are they all just standing there like potato heads waiting to be attacked like in most FF games, i mean they dont even move, is it in a movie or something to show the speed of the attack, just being in the game isnt good enough, most summons take about a minute or two to be called, and the monsters just stand there watching it and then they die laughing whats to stop ganon just dodging

ESB - 1138
Sin Harvest cannot be dodged. The only way to avoid it is by disrupting the casting (hitting Sephiroth) but the One Winged Angel can teleport around.

And you given no proof that a LIGHT SPELL won't hurt Ganondorf.

caocao200
Casting sin harvest takes time, he can't do anything besides fly when he's doing the enchanting... btw does it drain hp to 1 or all the way to 0?

ESB - 1138
Nope. The only way Sora surives it is by having Second Chance equipped and that's the only way shown.

thegmeister53
Originally posted by Dragoncloud
Bull, if he's immortal then that would mean that link and zelda were too, the Triforce doesn't make a S*** of difference in mortality, it just makes him really hard to kill. Sides the Masamune is a sword of legend a well, i don't think sephy's gonna need the master sword for this one. Besides, The master sword isn't ganondorf's weakness, just evil ones can never touch it, you idiots are thinking of the light arrow, and that's not to hard for sephiroth to fix, all he has to do is use a little bit of holy and infuse it with the masamune and he's got ganny beat.

Technically, it's the best light has to offer in their own little universe. In Sephiroth's Holy was, so by default, he could just cast a little Alexander and we could be seeing ganondorf shot down and out like a whole bunch of nothing.


i'm gonna point out something else that most people don't seem to be looking at while im working on this note, Smash Bro's. If Ganondorf truly is so great, why is he more than easily defeatable by someone as pathetic as the game and watch man? i mean for god sake's he the game and watch man! I mean if Ganny is so great then why would nintendo make him so weak in their biggest showcase battle game? I mean what did he have there that was so great? A flamming boot?

Don't call other people idiots when you yourself are acting ignorant. Smash Bros. is not considered cannon. He is anything but weak, he has one of the strongest attacks in the game. The only thing that might be considered cannon is his sword. There is also probably a reason why Zelda instructs Link to use the Master Sword to kill Ganondorf: Because it's the only thing that works. It's not some common sword simply infused with magic.

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by thegmeister53
Don't call other people idiots when you yourself are acting ignorant. Smash Bros. is not considered cannon. He is anything but weak, he has one of the strongest attacks in the game. The only thing that might be considered cannon is his sword. There is also probably a reason why Zelda instructs Link to use the Master Sword to kill Ganondorf: Because it's the only thing that works. It's not some common sword simply infused with magic.

Now who is the ignorant one? Name me one time Link used the Master Sword to slay Ganon. Not once he always ended up using a Silver Arrow.

kamikz
Um what? That was in the first Zelda game (which is the last featuring Ganon) where he had been captured and defeated countless of times, he had grown weak, that is the only one where Ganon actually dies... In Ocarina of Time, he was defeated by the master sword, in WW he was defeated by the master sword. And always he has been worn down with the master sword or white sword, if it was as simple to shoot the silver arrow then Link would have.

And just because the magic is in the category "light magic" does not mean it is actually light, I don't see where that is... Is Seprioth good? Has he got a pure hearth?

And there is no chance Ganondorf will die by 1 hit, even with light.

Tidas
Didn't he use his sword in WW?

Dragoncloud
Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Holy. Sephiroth has Holy. In Final Fantasy Holy is the ultimate White Magic. Not to mention Sin Harvest which is an auto-kill. And you can't say Sin Harvest isn't light because it uses an angel's halo. I'm not arueing with you, but exactly when and where does he use sin harvest?

Originally posted by kamikz
Does it necessarily have to be light because it is in the category "light magic"? Holy has a couple of white balls crashing down on the opponents head, which is not light as far as I know of. Besides, where is it said Seprioth got it?

Same deal with the halo, and that does not mean Ganondorf is going to die. He has survived things that are made to kill him, and his robe is undestroyable, he could just use it to fend of the halo... that's not true, technically, if you watch his robe during the fight in ocarina of time, it begins to tear away quite a bit. so don't feed me that bs!

And holy is granted through the power of the materia, not to mention Alexander was also a holy based attack. And yes holy is considered "light" because light is the representation of good when dark is used to compare to evil. and since holy is the ultimate magic that is to determine what is right and what is good for the planet and its inhabitants, it can very easily be considered a "good" magic making it which would corrolate it to "light"

kamikz
BS? Link shot him in the face with light arrows which made his whole body burts out with light, then he fell onto the ground and Link started to hack like crazy with the master sword. Of course the robe got tear apart, but when Link was not wounding Ganondorf himself the robe could parry every single attack that he made, even parry light. It is possible that Ganondorf had fused his magic into it, powering it with his own power, when he lost it, so did the robe.
Mabey undestroyable is a bit much, but it is very, VERY durable, at least when Ganondorf himself is not wounded.

Also, note that the inside of the robe might not be invurnable...

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by Dragoncloud
I'm not arueing with you, but exactly when and where does he use sin harvest?

that's not true, technically, if you watch his robe during the fight in ocarina of time, it begins to tear away quite a bit. so don't feed me that bs!

And holy is granted through the power of the materia, not to mention Alexander was also a holy based attack. And yes holy is considered "light" because light is the representation of good when dark is used to compare to evil. and since holy is the ultimate magic that is to determine what is right and what is good for the planet and its inhabitants, it can very easily be considered a "good" magic making it which would corrolate it to "light"

Sephiroth uses Sin Harvest in Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 which is an auto kill unless you have Second Chance equipped which brings you down to 1 hp and 0 mp. He also uses a FF9 version of Holy which has been called the strongest light magic spell in many Final Fantasy games.

IcePunk
Just played through FF7 again, didnt see Seph use Holy or Sin harvest at any time, ESB stop lying no expression

Edit : is this KH Seph or FF7 Seph, make up your bloody mind >_<

Also, should KH final fantasy characters be even be considered canon?

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by IcePunk
Just played through FF7 again, didnt see Seph use Holy or Sin harvest at any time, ESB stop lying no expression

Edit : is this KH Seph or FF7 Seph, make up your bloody mind >_<

Also, should KH final fantasy characters be even be considered canon?

They are the same people. Square Enix made Sephiroth and they made Final Fantasy 7 and Kingdom Hearts meaning that they gave Sephiroth the power to use Sin Harvest and yes they should. The same company made Kingdom Hearts that made Final Fantasy 7.

Also about the Master Sword thing, Four Swords injured Ganon. And all that does is separate someone into 4.

kamikz
What? The villain in Four Swords were Vaati, not Ganondorf. Besides, Link has many, many different light magics, chares a triforce with Ganondorf, has the master sword which weakens him, trapped him numerous of times and defeated him many as well, of course Ganon would grow weaker and weaker. But in Ocarina of Time, even the thing that was made to kill him did not do it, but instead they had to trapp him inside the sacred realm. I mean, IF they would be able to kill Ganondorf right there they would....

thegmeister53
Aww, Kamikz, you took what I was going to say! miffed

kamikz
Sorry wink

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by kamikz
What? The villain in Four Swords were Vaati, not Ganondorf. Besides, Link has many, many different light magics, chares a triforce with Ganondorf, has the master sword which weakens him, trapped him numerous of times and defeated him many as well, of course Ganon would grow weaker and weaker. But in Ocarina of Time, even the thing that was made to kill him did not do it, but instead they had to trapp him inside the sacred realm. I mean, IF they would be able to kill Ganondorf right there they would....

Umm clearly you haven't played Four Swords Adventures for the gamecube. The last boss was not Vaati but Ganon. And it was clear that Ganondorf was powerful, too powerful to be destroyed by Link and the Sages in OoT. But Sephiroth had the power to whip out the planet. And it was clear that the end of the world was near because the Weapons became released and they were only around to destroy everything to save the world.

IcePunk
So?

kamikz
Exactly, he didn't wipe the planet out, and if he did he would die too, wheras Ganondorf would not....
Ganon as said before was weak at the time, and Link is always destined to take him down, now there are 4 of him. He is light and his weapons are made of it as well. I think you need to replay WW. The scene where Link strikes Ganondorf from head to toe and Ganon does not even get a scar, then getting the whole placed burnt up with fire and the roof crashing on him, still not a scratch. You keep saying "but in that, but there.. blalblabla" it is obvious that Ganondorf in the first games (OOT, WW) could not be killed by anything else than the master sword and not wounded without light...

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by kamikz
Exactly, he didn't wipe the planet out, and if he did he would die too, wheras Ganondorf would not....
Ganon as said before was weak at the time, and Link is always destined to take him down, now there are 4 of him. He is light and his weapons are made of it as well. I think you need to replay WW. The scene where Link strikes Ganondorf from head to toe and Ganon does not even get a scar, then getting the whole placed burnt up with fire and the roof crashing on him, still not a scratch. You keep saying "but in that, but there.. blalblabla" it is obvious that Ganondorf in the first games (OOT, WW) could not be killed by anything else than the master sword and not wounded without light...

And yet Sephiroth survived a giantic explosion (same out Cloud survived) and survived being frozen and was still able to take control of Cloud's body. Sin Harvest and the match is over.

kamikz
No, why would it be that way? Ganondorf survived being hit over and over and over and over with the thing MADE to kill him and all evil, he was the KING of evil. Still they did not succeed. He showed that nothing wounded him a single bit, you seem to think that the bigger the attack is the more it will take. But an attack that did not come from light didn't take a shit, so why would a larger attack do that?

ESB - 1138
Clearly you don't know what Sin Harvest is.

kamikz
Then give me the full explenation.

ESB - 1138
To begin with Sin Harvest is the size of an Angel's Halo.

Sephiroth will be facing his enemy as though he was focusing everything on him and all of a sudden he will vanish. You will look around and (sometimes) find him in the air far away and that's when you hear "Heartless Angel...Sin Harvest." Once the Angel's Halo forms over your head there is no stopping it. And with that your spirit is taken from your body and all is lost (expect with Second Chance equipped then you are at the verge of death). The only means of negating Sin Harvest is to force Sephiroth to stop the spell before the halo forms over your head. If you don't the halo acts as the portal between life and death and your spirit is taken from life and brought to death.

ESB - 1138
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=30625452391564125&q=Sephiroth

Maybe this will help. Watch and be amazed.

kamikz
And why would this not be stoppable, just because Sora couldn't. Also, he has to target Ganondorf, remember the spell he cast in the beginning of the last fight in OOT, they were unable to do that.... And he could kill him while he's loading up to that spell OR trap him inside one of those crystals that he trapped Zelda in..

ESB - 1138
KH2 didn't have targeting. And Zelda was in the Crystal because her power was nothing compared to Ganondorf's.

kamikz
So what says he could not trapp something else?

ESB - 1138
What's to say he could trap Sephiroth? Sephiroth is far stronger in magical power then Princess Zelda could ever hope to be.

kamikz
So... what says he could not trapp Seprioth?

ESB - 1138
Considering the power of Sephiroth alone was able to trap Holy the strongest white magic in FF7.

kamikz
That is not proof enough, he does not know of this magic. Even if he could resist it I doubt he will have the means to stopp Ganondorf, his power MIGHT be higher, but again, the means...

ESB - 1138
Why didn't Ganondorf trap Link in the Crystal like he did Zelda?

kamikz
He said it himself.

"I've been letting this kid run around just to make Zelda revile herself". Then when Link came in, he laughed. He thought it would be an easy match, but instead he was to overconfident and Link defeated him.

ESB - 1138
Not there but when he caught Zelda. Why not just trap Link?

kamikz
One thing could be that he had the MASTER SWORD and was the hero of time. ANother could be that he was defended by the six sages. ANother, that he underestimated him...

ESB - 1138
The Six Sages couldn't stop Ganondorf without Link weaking him down. And I doubt being the Hero of Time had anything to do with it. It was clear that Ganondorf couldn't because he could have done that after he disarmed Link of the Master Sword and transformed into Ganon using the full power of the Triforce of Power.

Until you can give an answer for that Ganondorf cannot trap Sephiroth in the Crystal.

kamikz
Where is the proof? Zelda was trapped, she knew how to call the sages but she couldn't inside there. When Ganon lost his power because Link defeated him she came down but thought he was dead. They were also in a hurry. When they came down Ganon was already grasping for his life, the spell broke when he was to wounded so he probably couldn't do it twice, instead, he turned into Ganon. Then Zelda was inside a ring of fire and could not get close or do anything...

And he probably couldn't trapp Link because he had the master sword and were protected by the sages.

Kaithen
How the hell do !!!!!YOU!!!!! know that the six sages couldnt protect him from doing that......

ESB - 1138
The Six Sages couldn't even seal Ganon until Link beat the living hell out of him twice and on top of that a entire castle had to fall on him. After all that the Sages still needed Zelda to use their power.

kamikz
I gave you reasons to why the Six sages never got an opportunity...

And I don't think his dark sealing magics works on Link when he has "the EVILS BANE" in his hands..

IcePunk
http://files.lussumo.com/Graham%20Leaves%20Toronto/sleepy-murphy.jpg

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ESB - 1138
Originally posted by kamikz
I gave you reasons to why the Six sages never got an opportunity...

And I don't think his dark sealing magics works on Link when he has "the EVILS BANE" in his hands..

Can you provide proof that the Six Sages or the Master Sword had anything to do with Ganondorf unable to seal Link? Have you ever thought that Ganondorf couldn't seal Link away the very same reasons the Six Sages couldn't seal Ganondorf away at first?

Kaithen
Yeah my prof =

IF HE COULD HE WOULD SEAL LINK

IcePunk
Obviously

kamikz
Are you all talking about "if he could he would?" He said himself he was toying with Link, for example, why didn't he crash a window, fly out and blow the tower (he could do that when he was dying) and won the duel? He could do it couldn't he? No, I bet he couldn't cause he didn't....

As I said there are reasons the Six Sages couldn't seal him which you haven't answered, and you have yet not provided why his magics would get past the evils bane and the protection of the six sages. Also, he did just recently do it on Zelda, mabey he could not do it twice.

thegmeister53
Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Can you provide proof that the Six Sages or the Master Sword had anything to do with Ganondorf unable to seal Link? Have you ever thought that Ganondorf couldn't seal Link away the very same reasons the Six Sages couldn't seal Ganondorf away at first?

There's a big difference between protection and attack. It's much easier to simply protect Link from Ganon's attack than to go out on an all-out offensive against Ganon.

kamikz
Well said.

Kaithen
Yepp big grin

LORD JLRTENJAC
GANONDORF! GANONDORF!

Hell, I don't even know who Sepriman is...

Twilight durmak
i'm not too sure but i think sephiroth would win.

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by thegmeister53
There's a big difference between protection and attack. It's much easier to simply protect Link from Ganon's attack than to go out on an all-out offensive against Ganon.

So what's the reason with Wind Waker? Link had no form of the Six Sages. And you can't say it was because of the Triforce of Courage because Ganondorf trapped Zelda who had a Triforce piece. And I'm referring to when the Master Sword was useless at the point.

IcePunk
Originally posted by LORD JLRTENJAC
GANONDORF! GANONDORF!

Hell, I don't even know who Sepriman is... What the f**k?

thegmeister53
Originally posted by ESB - 1138
So what's the reason with Wind Waker? Link had no form of the Six Sages. And you can't say it was because of the Triforce of Courage because Ganondorf trapped Zelda who had a Triforce piece. And I'm referring to when the Master Sword was useless at the point.

What exactly are you talking about? This is about Ocarina of Time.

IcePunk
About Seph being "eternal".

First of all, that's not true, Seph only came back because the last remainings of Jenova chose Kadaj to be the new Seph and was put inside Kadaj's body and then he died and Jenova along with it.

About Seph bein' canon in KH.

First of all, Hercules got beaten by throwing boxes at him and then by direct attacks. Also we dont even know how Seph got back to life, or even when, so I say NOT canon.

About Holy.

Seph never showed any sign of being able to controll Holy (the PLANET'S weapon, not Seph's!!). Holy was only "activated" when the PLANET (not Seph) got in grave danger.

Also, STOP MAKING UP STUFF !

Twilight durmak
good going icepunk that's a real good point.

IcePunk
Yay, I got complimented happy

Twilight durmak
yeah you did

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by IcePunk
About Seph being "eternal".

First of all, that's not true, Seph only came back because the last remainings of Jenova chose Kadaj to be the new Seph and was put inside Kadaj's body and then he died and Jenova along with it.

About Seph bein' canon in KH.

First of all, Hercules got beaten by throwing boxes at him and then by direct attacks. Also we dont even know how Seph got back to life, or even when, so I say NOT canon.

About Holy.

Seph never showed any sign of being able to controll Holy (the PLANET'S weapon, not Seph's!!). Holy was only "activated" when the PLANET (not Seph) got in grave danger.

Also, STOP MAKING UP STUFF !

I never said Sephiroth was eternal. Sephiroth was killed at the end of FF7 and the Sephiroth that appeared in Advent Children wasn't Sephiroth but rather Kadaj as Sephiroth. The real one is dead and gone.

And Kingdom Hearts is cannon for in Kingdom Hearts Sephiroth is shown with a black one winged. Never seen that in FF7 but in Advent Children he has one at the end of the fight.

And I never ment Holy as in FF7's Holy but Holy as in KH's Holy. That was used during the boss battle.

And you still haven't given a reason why KH isn't cannon. FF7 and KH were both made by Square Enix. And I'm still waiting for a reason why Sin Harvest would not effect Ganondorf or why Ganondorf never sealed Link in Wind Waker or the first Zelda game. Neither Link's had the six sages with them.

IcePunk
no

I never said I replied to you, so that's one selfish assumption you just made. Wind waker Ganondorf is OFF-TOPIC. And why do you say that Seph in AC is not the real one when you say that his black wing is shown in KH? erm Wait, then you're also saying KH Seph also isnt the real one, heh, seems like you owned yourself again laughing laughing

thegmeister53
Originally posted by IcePunk
Yay, I got complimented happy

thumb up To Ice Punk.

Marcellus
the Sephiroth in KH is an alternate version of himself. Cloud appear's normal for a reason, that mutated version of Sephiroth is a representation of Cloud's inner darkness, at one point he even claim's "I am you" while Seapking to Cloud. Sephiroth normally doesnt seem like he would say that.

Kadaj was literally a representation of Sephiroth's will when he acquired Jenova it allowed him to take physical form, Due to Sephiroth's temporary time in the lifestream he was partlly diluted, wich is why 3 were apparent in AC. that being said if anything it show's us no matter what way he appear's Sephiroth is very powerfull summoning the ifected lifestream with a wave of his hand and slashing that falling upperportion of the tower like it was no big deal

if you read "the origin of the silver haired men" over at IGN the writer's of AC talk about how Sephiroth unlike Kadaj had Cloud on the defensive nearly the entire fight and then just got Cloud angry enuf to use omnislash.

in the story "the maiden who travel's the planet" you find out that the staged fight at the end of FF7 that was apparently an actuall fight that didnt just take palce in Cloud's head, and Sephiroth was attacking Cloud.
but due to RPG mechanic's and overall system restraint's animating Sephiroth having Cloud at his mercy and then having Cloud obliterate him with omnislash was to much.So just some noisey flash's and them bam Sephy's dead.

Sephiroth as Safer, Bizzaro and AC all have the Same power within them. as far as KH goes that is disputeable. but with abilities like Pale Horse and Supernova I think Sin Harvest is quite Possible for the real Sephiroth to use.

IcePunk
Still no proof at all of Seph even being able to lay a scratch on G

Marcellus
Is there anyproof stating G will take out Seph? If Sephiroth cant hurt Gannon, could Gannon possibly keep pace with Sephiroth?

IcePunk
OK I see, so you're another one of those who tend to overrate Seph and underate the oppenent, huh? You're funny, really funny laughing

Marcellus
WTF? I didnt even mention Gannon's power! My first post was clarifying differnt version's of Sephiroth, that had nothing to do with Gannon.
I actually agree Sephiroth probably dosent have the means to kill Gannon.

well after re-reading I suppose that second post could be misinterpreted,
by pace I mean Sephiroth should know better than to mess around just run away!

but still Im not acting like a fanboy, untie your nicker's bud

IcePunk
It's just that Seph isnt that fast, saying G probably not being able to keep up with Seph make it sound like Seph has ninja-anime-ish speeds which isnt right erm. Which you didnt, you asked.

Also, stop saying Gannon, this is Ganondorf.

LORD JLRTENJAC
Originally posted by LORD JLRTENJAC
GANONDORF! GANONDORF!

Hell, I don't even know who Sepriman is...

Ok I know who Sephiroth is and he is frikin awesome! But I still vote GANONDORF!

SpadeKing
sephie all the way he has a huge ass sword and every game i played with him on their he whooped my ass in one or two hits

IcePunk
Now this is a fanboy yes

Great reasons there, buddy thumb up

SpadeKing
Originally posted by IcePunk
Now this is a fanboy yes

Great reasons there, buddy thumb up

yep I know im so proud of me i feel smart smartass

Marcellus
Originally posted by IcePunk
It's just that Seph isnt that fast, saying G probably not being able to keep up with Seph make it sound like Seph has ninja-anime-ish speeds which isnt right erm. Which you didnt, you asked.

Also, stop saying Gannon, this is Ganondorf.

meh either way, I just have not seen gannon....dorf move nearly as fast as Seph did in AC or Last Order....but that is of course becuase I have yet TOO see it. if there is some sort of cut scene showing G cover that much ground like Seph can then I would recind my statement.

possibly a link to a YOUTUBE video?

IcePunk
I have one question, would Seph be able to evade G's magic?

Sealing people (he did that to Zelda)

Shoot a great amount of homing magic balls that only be shot back with the Master sword.

Also, you talk as if it's friggin game of tag, Seph will attach too, you know, not just evade evade evade and fly around like a scared pigeon. And if he would do what seemingly think he would, then G would most like use his magic.

MadMel
everyone seems to think thst nowdays...the enemy just stands still, while their fav guy attacks (sniper....glare)..not likely

IcePunk
Amen to that

SpadeKing
ill going with seph cause he is fast as crap and he knows but rarly uses magic
ganondorf he moves fast to but he doesnt lik disappear when he moves, and to tell you the truth i never tried to finish the orcarina of time

IcePunk
I think you're a bit confused, Seph does not have the weapons to kill or even scratch G and Seph does not have, what I call "ninja speed". And if you dont know anything about the opponent then why the f*ck are you posting sh*t like "Seph all the way".

Old Qoute: "That's just stupid, that's like running into a war without any intel about ones opponent" - I said that, looooooooong ago and I still go by it.

IcePunk
I have to agree with Rukia's best "drawing" ever

http://www.orlyowl.com/upload/files/pwned.jpg

SpadeKing
Originally posted by IcePunk
I think you're a bit confused, Seph does not have the weapons to kill or even scratch G and Seph does not have, what I call "ninja speed". And if you dont know anything about the opponent then why the f*ck are you posting sh*t like "Seph all the way".

Old Qoute: "That's just stupid, that's like running into a war without any intel about ones opponent" - I said that, looooooooong ago and I still go by it.

doesnt mean i havent seen anybody else fight him
anyway i killed him in the windwaker already he sux

IcePunk
OMFG, even my cat is more reasonable than you What the f**k?

Creshosk
Originally posted by IcePunk
saying G probably not being able to keep up with Seph make it sound like Seph has ninja-anime-ish speeds which isnt right erm.Have you seen Advent Children? Probably not.

Originally posted by IcePunk
Also, stop saying Gannon, this is Ganondorf. Yeah the giant pig would make for an interesting fight.

But yeah as far as the fight goes I don't know if either of them can tire.

I'd call it a draw, as seph doesn't have the means to hurt G-dorf and Ganonndorf doesn't have the speed (he's never been portrayed as being fast always slow) to hit Sephiroth.

And since I doubt either of these beings can tire there's probably not much of a chance of either gaining the upper hand.

bean_machine
Originally posted by Creshosk
I'd call it a draw, as seph doesn't have the means to hurt G-dorf and Ganonndorf doesn't have the speed (he's never been portrayed as being fast always slow) to hit Sephiroth.

And since I doubt either of these beings can tire there's probably not much of a chance of either gaining the upper hand.

Thats how I see this situation.

IcePunk
G isnt precisely the person to just call it quits and say draw and neither is Seph, just because he's slow doesnt mean his magics are slow roll eyes (sarcastic)

Creshosk
Originally posted by IcePunk
G isnt precisely the person to just call it quits and say draw and neither is Seph, just because he's slow doesnt mean his magics are slow roll eyes (sarcastic) So they fight for eternity. neither has the upper hand. It's still a draw whether they call it so or not.

and yeah his magic is still pretty slow. A skilled swordsman(link) is capable of parrying it.

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by IcePunk
I have one question, would Seph be able to evade G's magic?

Sealing people (he did that to Zelda)

Shoot a great amount of homing magic balls that only be shot back with the Master sword.

Also, you talk as if it's friggin game of tag, Seph will attach too, you know, not just evade evade evade and fly around like a scared pigeon. And if he would do what seemingly think he would, then G would most like use his magic.

I used the Baron's Sword to deflect those magic balls.

Creshosk
In at least one of the games you can use the butterfly net to deflect magic. can't remember which.

Ganon's magic hasn't shown to be unavoidable, or superfast or anything of the sort.

ESB - 1138
That would be a Link to the Past against the dark wizard who Ganon had complete control of. I forget his name.

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by kamikz
Are you all talking about "if he could he would?" He said himself he was toying with Link, for example, why didn't he crash a window, fly out and blow the tower (he could do that when he was dying) and won the duel? He could do it couldn't he? No, I bet he couldn't cause he didn't....

As I said there are reasons the Six Sages couldn't seal him which you haven't answered, and you have yet not provided why his magics would get past the evils bane and the protection of the six sages. Also, he did just recently do it on Zelda, mabey he could not do it twice.

All you are saying is things you are guessing on. No absence of proof isnt proof of absence, but until you have proof then you have no material to debate with.

An example:

You say...'reindeers can fly.'

I say...'No reindeers cant fly you dumbass.'

I cant really prove that your wrong per se, but until you come with legitimate proof of your claim, I am right by default. Its a fundamental rule of debate...skepticism is always the correct position unless proven otherwise.

thegmeister53
So by using that logic, if Ganondorf says he was toying with Link we should believe him until proven otherwise. We didn't make this up Ganondorf himself said it to Link. And if he brought the castle down with his "last breath" I'm sure he could've done it before the fight and just escape.

kamikz
Um...I know he could do it much easier before, I said "I bet he couldn't because he didn't" when I was imitating ESB because he used that kind of logic.
And Ganondorf never said he toyed with Link during their battle (though there are things he could have done much better), he said it when Link was running around, defeating every single dungeon there was, he let this kid run around so Zelda would revile herself, he could have stopped Link at any time, thus he toyed with Link....

ESB, what proof do you have? Ganondorf could as thegmeister53 said bring down the tower with his last breath, why shouldn't he be able to do it with his full power? Ganondorf could have transformed into Ganon inside the tower and fought Link in that small place, but he didn't. You say that because he didn't he couldn't. Does that mean that Ganondorf can only use his best powers when he is near dying, much, much weaker, on the brink of fanting/dying? I'd say that you with that logic is the one guessing....

Really you have no real proof either, the game never said anything about the way you looked at it, and it never says anything about the way I looked at it, we have different point of views, you are not right by defult. Since it has not been proven by the game I am not the one guessing, you are as well. You have yet to provide proof for what you said before you come here and tell me that I'm wrong. Show me why I'm wrong....

Kaithen
If he escaped, link would still be there, lol!

ESB - 1138
Originally posted by kamikz
Um...I know he could do it much easier before, I said "I bet he couldn't because he didn't" when I was imitating ESB because he used that kind of logic.
And Ganondorf never said he toyed with Link during their battle (though there are things he could have done much better), he said it when Link was running around, defeating every single dungeon there was, he let this kid run around so Zelda would revile herself, he could have stopped Link at any time, thus he toyed with Link....

ESB, what proof do you have? Ganondorf could as thegmeister53 said bring down the tower with his last breath, why shouldn't he be able to do it with his full power? Ganondorf could have transformed into Ganon inside the tower and fought Link in that small place, but he didn't. You say that because he didn't he couldn't. Does that mean that Ganondorf can only use his best powers when he is near dying, much, much weaker, on the brink of fanting/dying? I'd say that you with that logic is the one guessing....

Really you have no real proof either, the game never said anything about the way you looked at it, and it never says anything about the way I looked at it, we have different point of views, you are not right by defult. Since it has not been proven by the game I am not the one guessing, you are as well. You have yet to provide proof for what you said before you come here and tell me that I'm wrong. Show me why I'm wrong....

Have you ever considered that Ganondorf used the Triforce of Power to transform into Ganon. Do you think there is a reason he waited till he had no other choice to use the Triforce of Power to transform into Ganon? When Ganondorf did use the Triforce of Power to tap into his "true" darkness he awakened Ganon who begun to take control of Ganondorf's body. As told in Four Swords Adventures for the Nintendo Gamecube. It even said that Ganondorf ceased to be.

Ganondorf brought down a castle, big deal. Sephiroth nuked the Northen Crater and threatened to nuke the entire planet.

kamikz
See, there your logic fails you. I said that he could still do it up their, I know he didn't want to cause that was his last weapon, but he could. Same with the "blow the building" shit. Your last point was, "if he could, he would". But apparently it breaks there...

And I never compared it to Seprioths power. But a near dead/fanting Ganondorf could crush a tower when he actually is lying near unconscious on the floor, what could he do with his full power? Pretty much... Also, Seprioth could not nuke the world in one second, also, I doubt it would kill Ganondorf...

ESB - 1138
Yeah we saw that when he battled Link. Just look at him with all this power. How many times now has Link beat the living hell out of Ganondorf/Ganon now?

kamikz
Many times, why? Because Link is everything Ganondorf is not, and has everything Ganondorf cannot stand. Ganondorf also highly underestimates Link, and each time he is trapped he seems to grow weaker and weaker. In the beginning he could break loose, then he needed help from others and in the end he was even killed by lesser means than in Ocarina Of Time...

ESB - 1138
So let me get this straight. Ganondorf/Ganon gets his @$$ handed to him over and over and over again and always underestimates his opponent? Man, sounds like Ganondorf/Ganon is a complete and total dumb @$$.

kamikz
Ganondorf underestimated him the first time, and that led to his defeat. After he broke loose in WW and took the land, he defeat Link UNARMED, but since the King wished that Link and Zelda would have a future while Ganondorf would drown here in Hyrule, there was nothing he could have done, HE COULD NOT WIN!
He still broke the wishes of the gods and with the help of the sorserer he became free again, but this time, probably not as strong as before AND could only be Ganon. He was defeated. He broke loose once more, but this time he was weaker than ever and died by lesser means than before. So Ganondorf is hardly an idiot, actually, his plot to take over Hryule in OOT was quite impressive...

ESB - 1138
Yeah that explains why he used all these powerful attacks you spoke of in any battle. Let's see he fired an energy ball and played catch back and forth. He also (as Ganon) spun his staff around and teleported around. Not to mention he threw it every now and then. Dang Ganondorf/Ganon sounds so powerful. He brought down Ganon's Tower in OoT and that was the biggest thing he's done.

kamikz
Yeah and that was while he was dying... As I said, he underestimated Link and did not use his power to the fullest extent, he could have flown out from the tower then crushed it and Link would have died, but he didn't. Does that mean he can't? Of course not....

You are ignoring that Seprioth cannot possibly kill him. I even said that Seprioth's power is most likley above Ganondorf's, but he still can't kill him.

Gotta go to sleep now...

ESB - 1138
Sephiroth's power is far greater then Ganondorf's. Supernova for example is a powerful summon that deals great damage and causes a ton of stat effects like toad, blind, sleep, and mute. Sin Harvest for examples opens the gateway between life and death using a halo to cast the opponent in a in. death in which there is no defense against. You have not proven why Sin Harvest wouldn't work against Ganondorf.

bean_machine
Originally posted by ESB - 1138
You have not proven why Sin Harvest wouldn't work against Ganondorf.

Why would it?

kamikz
Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Sephiroth's power is far greater then Ganondorf's. Supernova for example is a powerful summon that deals great damage and causes a ton of stat effects like toad, blind, sleep, and mute. Sin Harvest for examples opens the gateway between life and death using a halo to cast the opponent in a in. death in which there is no defense against. You have not proven why Sin Harvest wouldn't work against Ganondorf.

Your way of seeing this is a little wrong. We saw Ganondorf getting hit by Link, seeing him be engulfed by a sea of fire, and having the whole roof collapse on him, not a scratch. So this does not give him a single scratch or wound, now why would a bigger version of it give him a wound, why would something that causes even more of the same wound him?

Those powers wears off after a short while, it's not even clear if they will work against him when he uses his own powers. For all we know, the moment the fight begins Ganondorf can trap Seprioth inside one of those crystals, then crush him...
Where does it specifically say "no defence for". And that doesn't matter, Ganondorf cannot be killed by anything but the master sword, he might be wounded by other lights, but cannot be killed....

And as bean_machine said, why would it work?

thegmeister53
Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Yeah that explains why he used all these powerful attacks you spoke of in any battle. Let's see he fired an energy ball and played catch back and forth. He also (as Ganon) spun his staff around and teleported around. Not to mention he threw it every now and then. Dang Ganondorf/Ganon sounds so powerful. He brought down Ganon's Tower in OoT and that was the biggest thing he's done.

Actually, what you're saying only supports Kamikz's theory that Ganondorf grows weaker between each game. It shows that by Link to the Past, Ganon's powers have deteriorated so much that he can only use very basic powers. The most we saw him do in LttP was make mini fireballs, teleport around, throw his staff, and become invisible. Not as impressive as Ocarina of Time, huh?

Sin Harvest
The biggest thing we seen Ganondorf do is bring down Ganon's Tower. Yet it took time for the tower to fully collpase. Everything else in OoT we see him do is throw energy balls and create a shockwave.

And if Ganondorf could use that Crystal at will then why come he didn't use it against Link when he had Zelda? You have no proof that it would effect Sephiroth who is far more powerful then Link.

And no one has answered why Sin Harvest wouldn't effect Ganondorf. It seems everyone is avoiding that because they know the Instant Kill move would end Ganondorf.

bean_machine
The only thing ever proven in any Zelda game to actually kill Ganondorf, not weaken him or imprison him, is the master sword. That is the rule. If you bring both into a neutral playing field, why would this attribute of Ganondorf just go away? He is not killable by anything other than the master sword. Yes in the game other weapons can be used, but its not part of the plot or the cut scenes now is it?

Prove to me that it can cause it is Ganondorfs attribute that he can only be killed by the master sword.

Even then he is just tuned to stone, so it is speculation that he is dead and not just imprisoned. For all we know he might just be covered by a layer of stone instead of being turned to stone.

Sin Harvest
Originally posted by bean_machine
The only thing ever proven in any Zelda game to actually kill Ganondorf, not weaken him or imprison him, is the master sword. That is the rule. If you bring both into a neutral playing field, why would this attribute of Ganondorf just go away? He is not killable by anything other than the master sword. Yes in the game other weapons can be used, but its not part of the plot or the cut scenes now is it?

Prove to me that it can cause it is Ganondorfs attribute that he can only be killed by the master sword.

Even then he is just tuned to stone, so it is speculation that he is dead and not just imprisoned. For all we know he might just be covered by a layer of stone instead of being turned to stone.

Link used the White Sword in the first Zelda game and killed him with a Silver Arrow. Why wouldn't Sin Harvest work? It effects the spirit not the body.

kamikz
It has been explained on a site that the white sword is the master sword, but the name was forgotten through time and was called the white sword because it shined with light. Same deal with silver arrows....

And you forget the part where Link weakens him in OOT and captures him, then in WW he's back, where he gets killed by the master sword. It get's stuck in his head and he is bueried under the surface. Ganondorf died there, left only Ganon now. This Ganon was again even more weakened and captured. In the first Zelda game (which is the second last in the timeline) Ganon is killed. That was a weaker Ganon, and only Ganon, not Ganondorf/Ganon.....


You fail to explain why it would actually work on him. You seem to think that because it is causing more damage it will work. Like if you shoot a bullet on someone and it doesn't even give them a wound, then the golden gun in the James Bond series will work because it can instantly kill the victim. The thing is that it is the same kind of damage but on a more devestating degree. I don't see why it would work....

And Ganondorf isn't exactly gonna wait and see what happens, he can...

Dodge.
Shield himself with his robe.
Use his own power against it.

Hmm, I've never seen Cloud collapse a building with his mind alone, he still defeated Seprioth....

Superboy Prime
Sin Harvest isn't even canon.

kamikz
It isn't. HAHA! OMG, I love this moment so much I could have sex with it.... stick out tongue

Kaithen
mmm... sex.... mmm no sin harvet, life is good... wait a second did i say sex?

Sin Harvest
Sin Harvest is cannon. Square Enix (who made Sephiroth and Final Fantasy 7) gave it to him in Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2. It is basically the Fallen Angel move Kefka used.

And show me the link that says the White Sword is the Master Sword because there is nothing that shows those two swords are one in the same.

Superboy Prime
Kingdom Hearts is not canon and that makes Sin Harvest not canon.

Sin Harvest
I fail to see why? In fact if you played FF Tactics then you would see that it is cannon.

Superboy Prime
You fail to see why?

Ok you need glasses then.

Aerith is alive?

Sin Harvest
Okay and Ganondorf never came back to life? How many Links and Zeldas are there?

Superboy Prime
I am not here to defend Ganon. I simply stated Sin Harvest is not canon. I'll let the Ganon supporters defend him.

kamikz
Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Okay and Ganondorf never came back to life? How many Links and Zeldas are there?

I don't know about this Sin Harvest thing at all, so I leave that to Superboy. But are you seriousley saying that if there are reincarnations in the Zelda games there must be reincarnations in FF games as well?
It is stated that a new Link arises to fight evil, and Zelda, well Zelda could be the name of every first born princess of Hyrule (Or the same deal as Link).... Is there any source that claims that there are reincarnations of the FF characters?

Kaithen
Go kamikz go kamikz! haha pwnd ESB!

IcePunk
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Kingdom Hearts is not canon and that makes Sin Harvest not canon. I even said that before, he failed to listen/see and read that stick out tongue

Superboy Prime
Doesn't surprise me. I've told him numerous times Sephiroth's sword is the Masamune and not Murasame, and yet every other post of him I see him calling it the Murasame. Kind of funny, really. If you're going to try and defend a character you should at least have basic knowledge of the character you're trying to defend.

IcePunk
yes I agree

I noticed that too and tried to correct him, but was ignored.

Also, have fun not-being on vacation happy

EDIT : I remember the name of his sword cuz the same name shows up in many other Square created games.

EDIT 2 : Sin harvest (the KMC member) dont be stupid, FF tactics isnt FF 7.

DestinyGuy678
ganondorf would win or it would be a tie mainly because he can only be defeated by the sword of evil's bane or the master sword which sephiroth doesn't have

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