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Who really has the power?

Gaea is on high Skyfather/mother level. But the Phoenix force is the power used to create marvel universe. Phoenix 10/10.

Gaea. I'd say she has more permence. Phoenix is like a time power where Gaea is ever present.

With all this Phoenix talk, does anyone know where I can find a First Fallen(The Phoenix's equal in terms of power and opposite in terms of role and gender) bio?

You mean the Fallen One. The one that can kill Galactus.

This guy:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/889/uncannyxmen104733md.jpg

The first fallen is some crap they made up, probably as a reason to bring back Phoenix.

Well if he fell before phoneix ever rose from the ashes it would stand to reason there would be a bit of competion for position

The First Fallen is the anti-Phoenix that's all that's been said about him.

Gaea is the embodiment of the spiret of the earth, Phoenix is the embodiment of the birth and destruction of the universe ... I belive Phoenix wins this easily .

Ah. But the Earth is the key to everything there is anywhere which just about makes Gaea the most Powerful one there is.
More powerful than Odin of Asgard or even Eternity i'd wager.

A quick refresher on Gaea.

1st appearance: Doctor Strange #6
Origin: Thor Annual #10

Real Name: Unrevealed; Gaea is the name given her by the people of ancient Greece
Aliases: Mother Earth, Mother Nature, Jord, Nertha, Aditi, Coatique, Rangi, the Great Mother, Akka, Ala, Ammaveru, Citlacicue, Coatilique, Danu, Eithinoha, Erce, Hou-Tou, Nana, Ninhursag, Nokomis, Pachamama, Prakriti, Vaat, Yo, many others

Occupation: Patron goddess of Earth
Place of Birth: Earth

Known relatives: Chthon (brother), Atum, Thor (sons)

History: Gaea is one of the major Elder Gods who first materialized on Earth shortly before other life first appeared there. She and her brother god Chthon were among those Elder Gods who inhabited the land masses of the Earth (as opposed to the sea or skies), and may have had something to do with forming certain geological patterns. Although Gaea was humanoid in form, most of the Elder Gods were not. Except for Gaea, the Elder Gods eventually degenerated into demons; in other words, these Elder Gods became parasitic entities, needing to feed on the life essences of other beings in order to survive. Since humankind had not yet been born, these Elder Gods began preying on each other. Fearing that the demons' battles would destroy the newly evolving life on Earth, Gaea called upon the Demiurge, the sentient life force of Earth's biosphere, and gave birth to the first of the next generation of gods, Atum, who was dedicated to the consumption and elimination of the evil which the Elder Gods had wrought in their degeneration into demons. Atum killed virtually all the Elder Gods, although some, like Chthon and Set, escaped into other dimensional worlds. Gaea was the only Elder God permitted by the second generation of gods to exist. She infused her godly life essence into all living beings on Earth. Each living being born on Earth is infused with a portion of her life essence. it is for this reason that Gaea has been known throughout human history as the patron goddess of all living beings on Earth. She is the embodiment of the spirit of life, growth, harvest, and renewal on this planet. Under various names Gaea has become a member of every pantheon of gods worshipped by polytheistic religions throughout human history. Her role in these pantheons is always that of the maternal goddess of the Earth. In at least some cases, Gaea is actually the parent to races of gods who were worshipped on Earth, or to particular gods within specific pantheons. For example, according to ancient Greek myth, Gaea gave birth to the sky god Ouranos, with whom she then mated to produce the race o Titans, two of whom, Cronus an Rhea, were the parents of Zeus and the rest of the first generation of Olympian gods. The Asgardian god Odin mated with Gaea, under her name of Jord, in order to produce a son who would combine the power of Asgard and the power of Earth within himself. That son was Thor, who, however, was raised by Odin's wife Frigga and did not learns his mother's identity until recently. On the arrival of the Third Host of the Celestials upon Earth, the leaders of Earth's pantheon of gods learned that these extraordinarily powerful extraterrestrial beings intended to return to Earth centuries later to judge its inhabitants. If the Celestials judged against humanity at that time, they would destroy Earth. Over the following centuries, while the leading male gods of the pantheons planned means of defense against ht Celestials, the leading goddesses sought out members of the human race who had the highest genetic potential. Twelve such humans were selected and evolved by the gods into godlike beings themselves, who became known as the Young Gods. Gaea presented these twelve Young Gods to the Fourth Host of the Celestials as examples of the human race at its finest. As a result, the Celestials judge din humanity's favor and left Earth, taking the Young Gods with them. This was perhaps Gaea's greatest achievement in her role as protectress of all life on Earth. Gaea is no longer worshipped or thought to be real in the monotheistic cultures of the present day. However, whether people believe her to be real or not, when they refer to Mother Nature or Mother Earth, they are speaking about Gaea.

Gaea continues to grant power to many who call on her, from the ancient Sisters of Danu to the modern Ardina, Brother Nature, Clea, Dark Mairi, Dr Strange, the Neurii, the god Prometheus, and Topaz. She has even directed opposition to threats such as Dormammu (who once held her prisoner until she channeled the life force of every being on Earth to banish him) and Maelstrom. Her pain resulting from the harm humanity had done to Earth, nearly drove the mutant Humus Sapien to take the lives of all mankind. She was captured by the extradimensional scientist Yandroth and forced to place a curse on the earliest Defenders, compelling them to gather to oppose threats to Earth. She continued to perpetuate this curse herself for a time, pleased to have even unwilling protectors, but she dissolved it after the Defenders became corrupt due to Yandroth's influence. She informed Nighthawk that he would have the power to summon the Defenders in the future should the need arise.

Physical characteristics: Gaea has a humanoid form, but can manifest herself in whatever female humanoid form she chooses. Usually she now appears a s young woman with long black hair and blue eyes. As Jord she appeared as a young woman with blonde hair and blue eyes.
Strength level: Unknown, but she rarely relies on physical strength
Superhuman powers: Gaea has great mystical powers, most of the uses of which remain unrevealed. She can draw on the spiritual energies of all of Earth's living beings, since all of these beings share part of her own life essence. She can also command the force of nature on Earth, such as storms and volcanic activity. Although Gaea's powers may seem similar to many of those of the living planet, Ego, Gaea and Ego are actually two very different kinds of beings. Ego is a planet who developed sentience, whereas Gaea is a goddess who infuse her life essence into the living beings of her planet. Gaea is known o have great powers to heal injured living beings and to cause living beings to grow. She has considerable telekinetic power, and can even levitate Thor's hammer, which few beings can lift through non-mechanical means. Gaea can bestow mystical power upon sorcerers who call upon her for it.

As much as I'd hate to take a side that I know GS would take, Phoenix would stomp all over Gaea the way that the Living Tribunal would stomp all over Thor.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Ah. But the Earth is the key to everything there is anywhere which just about makes Gaea the most Powerful one there is.
More powerful than Odin of Asgard or even Eternity i'd wager.

Gaea is NOT more powerful than Eternity. In Thor #300 she had to beg the Celestials not to destroy the earth. Both Phoenix and Eternity are above the Celestials. Like I said, Phoenix 10/10.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
With all this Phoenix talk, does anyone know where I can find a First Fallen(The Phoenix's equal in terms of power and opposite in terms of role and gender) bio?

Equal? Where did u get that from EC? It is Phoenixes opposite in terms of role thats all, lets not make assumptions now. Have you seen or heard of EC ever achieving his opposing goal? Precisely my point. Role is very different to power.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Ah. But the Earth is the key to everything there is anywhere which just about makes Gaea the most Powerful one there is.
More powerful than Odin of Asgard or even Eternity i'd wager.

What absurd logic and ridiculous assumption. More powerful than Odin? Yes without a doubt she is an Elder God and has fewer degrees of separation from the Demiurge, however she is still just Elder God level im afraid so she is far from Eternitys level and ridiculously far from Phoenix level. As shown in Thor she is most certainly below the likes of the Celestials.

Phoenix easy

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Equal? Where did u get that from EC? It is Phoenixes opposite in terms of role thats all, lets not make assumptions now. Have you seen or heard of EC ever achieving his opposing goal? Precisely my point. Role is very different to power.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/889/uncannyxmen104733md.jpg

"But nature is also about balance, and there exists a polar opposite of the Phoenix"

I wouldn't call it an assumption. The watcher clearly states that it's the Phoenix's polar opposite, and that it maintains the balance in nature.
Those two words highlighted are essential, it means that it is the Phoenix's equal(As in status and power) as it is its polar opposite and maintains balance(Equality) in nature. It is also it's polar opposite in role and gender. It is most probably it's opposite in appearance as well.

Polar Opposites:
Day/Night
Dark/Light

Neither one is superior, they are both equal, yet they possess different(Opposite) "roles" and keep the balance in nature.
Therefore it's safe to say the Cosmic Crown is officially being shared by these two entities.
Hopefully Uncanny #474 will make his role clearer.(I wonder who the lucky "host" will be?)

Like Michael and Morningstar

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/889/uncannyxmen104733md.jpg

"But nature is also about balance, and there exists a polar opposite of the Phoenix"

I wouldn't call it an assumption. The watcher clearly states that it's the Phoenix's polar opposite, and that it maintains the balance in nature.
Those two words highlighted are essential, it means that it is the Phoenix's equal(As in status and power) as it is its polar opposite and maintains balance(Equality) in nature. It is also it's polar opposite in role and gender. It is most probably it's opposite in appearance as well.

Polar Opposites:
Day/Night
Dark/Light

Neither one is superior, they are both equal, yet they possess different(Opposite) "roles" and keep the balance in nature.
Therefore it's safe to say the Cosmic Crown is officially being shared by these two entities.
Hopefully Uncanny #474 will make his role clearer.(I wonder who the lucky "host" will be?)

Nope. Youre making assumptions because the point isnt stated or demonstrated. Being the polar opposite of the Phoenix Force doesnt equate to being its equal in power. The Watcher said it was Phoenixes opposite and then went on to elaborate by talking about Phoenixes role and goals in comparison to the First Fallens. Your viewpoint is as of this point in time completely unsupported on panel. Its speculation, please keep that in mind for future posts.

Originally posted by D-Block
Like Michael and Morningstar

Lucifers stated on panel many a time by different characters to be second only to God and it was Lucifer who ultimately prevailed in a battle with his brother in his own series last year.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Youre making assumptions because the point isnt stated or demonstrated. Being the polar opposite of the Phoenix Force doesnt not equate to being its equal in power. The Watcher said it was Phoenixes opposite and then went on to elaborate by talking about Phoenixes role and goals in comparison to the First Fallens. Your viewpoint is as of this point in time completely unsupported on panel. Its speculation, please keep that in mind for future posts.

Umm...polar opposite means equal but opposite, heaven and hell, day and night, light and dark, yin and yang, negative and positive, good and evil. It maintains a balance with the Phoenix. Too maintain a balance you have to have two sides that are equal. I wouldn't call it an assumption. But if you feel that the viewpoint is completely unsupported, then we'll just have to wait for more information on this "First Fallen" Entity. However I'm still interested in the host.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Umm...polar opposite means equal but opposite, heaven and hell, day and night, light and dark, yin and yang, negative and positive, good and evil. It maintains a balance with the Phoenix. Too maintain a balance you have to have two sides that are equal. I wouldn't call it an assumption. But if you feel that the viewpoint is completely unsupported, then we'll just have to wait for more information on this "First Fallen" Entity. However I'm still interested in the host.

"polar opposite that which is conspicuously different in
most important respects."

As youve found out EC, words on their own dont necessarily retain the same meaning when coupled with another word, especially when forming a phrase. Youre making an assumption. The Watcher said theyre polar opposites he then went on to elaborate this phrase by talking of their roles. Again let me remind you that your opinion is as of yet, unsupported on panel. But yes i agree we will have to wait for the next issue to clarify.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"polar opposite that which is conspicuously different in
most important respects."

As youve found out EC, words on their own dont necessarily retain the same meaning when coupled with another word, especially when forming a phrase. Youre making an assumption. The Watcher said theyre polar opposites he then went on to elaborate this phrase by talking of their roles. Again let me remind you that your opinion is as of yet, unsupported on panel. But yes i agree we will have to wait for the next issue to clarify.

Your definition, is my point exactly. "Different in most important respects"

As in Role. It doesn't mean one is superior to the other as they are extreme opposites.

And again to maintain a balance both sides have to be equal. Anyway, I'll wait till the next issue, I think the release date is in June.(Not sure if it's worth buying though, Uncanny has been really bad as of lately). Who do you think the host will be Jamie Braddock?(Hopefully not)

gaea is above skyfathers by leagues since she levitated thors hammer even though odin made it so only thor would pick it up but phoenix is more powerful

even if the the first fallen is equal to Phoenix, he has fallen short as she keeps perpetuating the universe.

Originally posted by LordKaos
even if the the first fallen is equal to Phoenix, he has fallen short as she keeps perpetuating the universe.

That's balance for you.

Gaea's also been bound by Dormammu before.

As far as First Fallen or Fallen One or whatever he is...

Claremont just can't resist making the Phoenix mythos even more complicated, can he? If Marvel wants to expound on something that is so fundamental to the MU, why not treat it in a decent mini sans X-Men and the like? Instead we get the Phoenix whose power is second only to that of the creator all of a sudden having a "polar opposite" that really only describes an aspect of Phoenix.

Next thing you know, we'll learn that this new character is only one of her "shards."

Gaea has had her essence infused with the actual Earth for so long, that destroying it would probably be the end of her anyway.

And what happened to the Dark Phoenix aspects of Phoenix (Chaos bringer) being the antithesis of Phoenix?

Originally posted by LordKaos
even if the the first fallen is equal to Phoenix, he has fallen short as she keeps perpetuating the universe.

I thought about this, and just realized that he hasn't fallen short. His role is to distrupt the cycle of life and death. Which means he either:

1. Ends all life forever
or
2 Maintains all life forever.

And when you think about it there are immortal beings in the MU. So he has done his job in a way.(A bad job but he has done it none the less.)

Yeah CC really complicated the Phoenix Aspect.

His job is to end all death and rebirth, to keep the cycle from moving. In essence if it were up to him there would have only been one universe after the initial big bang with no end.

Originally posted by LordKaos
His job is to end all death and rebirth, to keep the cycle from moving. In essence if it were up to him there would have only been one universe after the initial big bang with no end.

Well then he's done a really bad job. He's most probably a slacker.

lol i agree.

oh that's only cause you see destruction as power
and by the looks of it you're about to be destroyed so i guess you get your dream come true