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ROTS Vader at his peak and thinking calmly vs Sith Lord Ulic at his peak.

Who wins?

Vader, probably. His anger makes him uber, when it doesn't blind him.

ulic WTF pwns.

How, exactly?

well lets see. The amulat focuses his power in the force. It makes him a lot stronger (proved by Kun). He killed a powerful jedi knight without the force and only a lightsaber. So he is an amazing lightsaber duelist with awsome force powers. He is better than Anikan or Vader.

FULL OF CRAP! - REX

Where the hell did you get that? i never heard of that story or comic or whatever!

FULL OF CRAP! - REX

in other words it is non canon.

Yep, Anakin is good, but Ulic is just head and shoulders above him.

The man held off a Jedi while seperated from the force. That's pretty damn uber.

Yeah, but what force powers did he show us when he was still connected to the force?

Not much. What did Anakin show us in force powers?

Originally posted by Deception
ROTS Vader at his peak and thinking calmly vs Sith Lord Ulic at his peak.

Who wins?

ROTS Vader at his peak had fully embraced the dark side and COULDN'T think clearly. This would be like saying "Mike Tyson at the height of his career, but not the undefeated champ versus Evander Holyfield".... impossible to determine. Vader reaches the apex of his power by losing himself to the darkness and NOT thinking clearly. He effectively trades mental clarity for power.

Now, in his defense, Anakin was able to overpower Dooku and surprise him in his anger, but I don't see that happening to Ulic, who is younger, angrier than Dooku ever was, and certainly no stranger to combat. Sith Lord Ulic was very impressive in combat, and could stalemate Kun in sabercombat. I personally don't see Anakin beating him without the most extreme difficulty.

Originally posted by Razielim
Not much. What did Anakin show us in force powers?

www.swcomics.com isn't working for my computer right now. All the pages are the little x's in the corner. I'll post later when I can, the only link I have is from before, and it's this one:

http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=5&f=52&name=Clone_Wars_-_The_New_Face_Of_War_Part_2_of_2 .

Nothing impressive, but more will come when my computer decides to like me.

I think the site suffers bandwidth problems. I bet there's nerds on all different forums hotlinking the images.

Geeks janus geeks.

I'd say Ulic takes this. You don't stalemate Exar and not be very powerful.

Originally posted by Razielim
Not much. What did Anakin show us in force powers?

Sorry, I forgot about getting back to this thread. Anyway, Anakin's force powers, right.

Makes two droids shoot each other.
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=5&f=52&name=Clone_Wars_-_The_New_Face_Of_War_Part_2_of_2

Shoots scraps of metal at Durge like bullets.
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=20&f=29&name=Obsession_2_of_5

Tosses explosives at Durge.
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=8&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

Smacks Durge around with the force.
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=14&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

Guides a shuttle (of course, containing Durge, poor Durge ) into a star
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=15&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

The energy from him and Obi sparring lifts up debris. http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=5&f=31&name=Obsession_4_of_5

Helps rip through a metal wall in his Padawan days.
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=34&f=50&name=Clone_Wars_-_The_Defense_of_Kamino
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=35&f=50&name=Clone_Wars_-_The_Defense_of_Kamino

Throws some random crap around along with Asajj
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=19&f=71&name=Clone_Wars_-_Dreadnaughts_of_Rendili_Part_3_of_3

Ties up Asajj with the force using wires and crushes her.
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=20&f=71&name=Clone_Wars_-_Dreadnaughts_of_Rendili_Part_3_of_3

And he crushed a room full of medical supplies immediately after he got his suit and had any Sith training, so it's safe to assume that Anakin could do that too.
I'm sure there are more, but I think I've proved my point.

Let's compare this to Ulic's infamous "owned in the face with a snowball."
http://www.swcomics.com/Old_Republic_Era_c.php?i=6&f=35&name=Redemption_5_of_5

Sorry for bumping, but I felt obliged to do it.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
And he crushed a room full of medical supplies immediately after he got his suit and had any Sith training, so it's safe to assume that Anakin could do that too. In LoE he caved a building down, just by yelling.

Okay, all the better. Vader has a huge force advantage over Ulic. There is no evidence to support that he can hang with Anakin as far as force powers go. Vader wins, as far as I'm concerned, unless someone has some links of Ulic doing anything other than being hit in the face with a snowball.

I'm bumping, but I need to win this. Ulic is outclassed as far as the force goes, correct? No one has any links, right? Until then, Vader wins.

Absence of proof =/= Proof of absence. Ulic does have a few nifty Ancient Sith amulets, and these things were ubar.

If they were, you don't think he would have used one once throughout his entire life? I doubt he has any kind of uber special power.

Ulic wins.

Why? Because you want him to? He is a good duelist, but so is Anakin. Anakin has shown to be a better force user. Why does Ulic win? Links? Examples?... Anything?

He put up a good fight against Exar Kun. He'll kill Anakin in the duel.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Why? Because you want him to? He is a good duelist, but so is Anakin. Anakin has shown to be a better force user. Why does Ulic win? Links? Examples?... Anything?

Because his Sith amulet alone would wtfpwn Anakin any day. A casual blast was enough to put Nomi Sunrider on the ground while she was using battle meditation to help her to defend against Aleema's Sith magic. And the only offensive force powers Anakin can use "controlled" are push and choke.

Then Ulic had so much physical strength that it took 3 people with force support to hold him on the ground and his saber abilities weren't only enough to stalemate with Kun - no, he managed to keep up with an enraged Jedi when he didn't have his force powers any longer. How many non-force users have you seen being able to stalemate Jedi in melee combat ?

Ulic would defeat Anakin. Not really easily but he will finally do it.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Because his Sith amulet alone would wtfpwn Anakin any day. A casual blast was enough to put Nomi Sunrider on the ground while she was using battle meditation to help her to defend against Aleema's Sith magic. And the only offensive force powers Anakin can use "controlled" are push and choke.

Then Ulic had so much physical strength that it took 3 people with force support to hold him on the ground and his saber abilities weren't only enough to stalemate with Kun - no, he managed to keep up with an enraged Jedi when he didn't have his force powers any longer. How many non-force users have you seen being able to stalemate Jedi in melee combat ?

Ulic would defeat Anakin. Not really easily but he will finally do it.

I'm not sure I will be able to find the quote but I'm pretty sure you once said that the jedi in Kun's era didn't rely on the force in saber duels as much as pt jedi. My point is how can we trust your opinions when you constantly change them?

Because Ulic knew how to master and control the amulet? And would use it in a duel? Because his physical strength will mean a thing to someone who could outmanuever Durge?

To be fair, I'd put Anakin many steps ahead of Nomi "a few months of training!" Sunrider.

Nomi was roughly around Leia's level around the DE/EE era

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Because Ulic knew how to master and control the amulet? And would use it in a duel? Because his physical strength will mean a thing to someone who could outmanuever Durge?

Obviously he knew how to use it when he had it in his hands for the first time - it's not really hard to use it. And you really want to compared Durge to a force user with great physical strength who was able to stalemate Jedi in combat without having his force powers ? Not really...



Lmao, Lightsnake. You can't be serious. Nomi picked up a lightsaber before having any training and started handling the weapon like a master immediatly (stated by the omniscient narrator). She has mastered battle meditation, the "force block" thing and several other techniques and you can see her deflecting blaster bolts with her bare hands during the Freedon Nadd Uprising. Not to mention that she became the leader of the Jedi order 4 years later. And that is "around Leia's level in DE" ? Hilarious...

Did you know that when Luke first got the lightsaber from the legendairy obi wan kenobi he immediately handled it like a master also? He was immediately better than Mace Windu, Yoda and the Sidious noob. That's why Yoda doesn't decide to face Vader, Luke was immediately a master like Nomi Sunrider.
This is how it all happens in the SW universe.

If you mean 'knew how to use it' as 'activated it in a moment of irrational rage' than ok. And 'stalemate?' Ulic deactivated his saber and told Sylvar he wouldn't fight her. If she was fighting witha clear head, he'd be left bleeding his life out on the snow. And Ulic's 'great physical strength' compares to a Gen'dai who can lift and punch through spaceships? Just try to say Ulic is stronger physically than Durge, Y'know, the seven foot tall guy with every fiber of his being having the power to crush a man's skull with bare minimal effort. Point is: Durge is far, far stronger than any human and Anakin outmanuevered him. Ulic's 'physical strength' won't mean a thing.

What's even more hilarious is it's said directly by Vima da Boda that Leia's hit the level of the Sunriders. Leia's also mastered battle meditation, is described as extremely powerful, among other things...she also defeats a millenia old Jedi in a saber duel some years later. Leia's also able to match Luke with a saber for a small time.

jawdrop

Originally posted by Lightsnake
If you mean 'knew how to use it' as 'activated it in a moment of irrational rage' than ok.


You mean the sister amulet of Kun's who feeds on the users dark feelings (hate ? rage ?). Kun can figure out how to use his amulets in seconds but Ulic can't do it in months of time ?



He fought her over what amount of time ? Minutes ? And proof that he would have lost if Sylvar was fighting with a clear head. The same way I can say Sylvar would have been killed if Ulic's intention would have been to kill her. By the way...somehow "rage" makes all people stronger in the SW universe (Anakin, Luke in ROTJ) but Sylvar is weakened because of that ?



Yes. Anakin outmanuevered him. Would Anakin be able to do the same thing to a much more agile opponent who is able to use the force ? Hardly. Especially considering the facts that he had his ass handed to Asajj and Dooku when he was not utilizing his anger. Now please - how would he be able to defeat a Sith Lord who was a master duellist on his own and had an amulet to boost up his force powers so much that even a known Dark Side Witch (Aleema) was impressed by those powers when he wasn't able to overcome Obi-Wan on Mustafar (force and saber wise) ?



Oh. Were can that be found, hmm ?



Yes. She mastered battle meditation so much that she couldn't do anything in the duel between Luke and Sidious in DE right ? Either take anything you beloved sourcebooks say as canon or stop arguing with them. And the "millenia old Jedi" was a Hutt. Wow...a Hutt. They are totally known for their agility, speed and combat skills, right ? And she can match Luke with a saber for a small amount of time ? That small amount must be expressed in "milliseconds", right ?

Unlike Kun, Ulic is using it in a moment of irrational rage and the effects are rather different. Rather visibly different. Ulic hasn't 'surrendered to the darkside' for one.

Being stronger is one thing, but it doesn't mean a thing if you can't focus, like Anakin in ROTS.

Durge can't manuever? He was moving faster than trained Jedi masters could perceive, and add that to him flying in between shots of Clone commandos, including ARCS firing. He's big and he's agile, it's why he was such a nightmare to the Jedi....and this is ROTS Vader, not little Ani...the Vader who destroyed Asajj and Dooku. And considering Padme and Obi-wan won't be involved, I don't think we need to worry about Anakin losing it. So, the much more powerful Anakin simply uses Djem So and crushes Ulic's defenses. And when did Ulic use his sith amulets in his fights? And considering Ulic can be an irrational idiot as well, I'd say it fits fine, especially considering Anakin outmatched and crushed down Dooku.

Empire's End, btw. And Power of the Jedi. And Insider.

Gee, Leia was only powerless to interfere between two men described as 'titans' who were causing nearby imperials to drop down dead and catatonic...yes, that's...such a mark against Leia. And Beldarian the Splendid...to quote 'the old hutt was all fire and sinew and slithered after Leia with the speed of lightning'..Planet of Twilight even described how Beld was far bigger, stronger and much, much faster than a normal hutt.