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Is he the most powerful?

OK Avis present your argument.

i can only repeat what i heard from janus and nai on this argument. they have the whole thing already said. Give me your argument.

Repeat it then.

Originally posted by darthnuman
Repeat it then. Dude, it's up to you to prove that Ragnos isn't the most powerful. The argument for Avis' side is already there, just take a look.

to save him the trouble...Marka Ragnos was the ninth dark lord of the sith. He succeeded Lord Simus and beheaded him. However Simus was so powerful that he was able to keep his head alive, however Marka was even more powerful than Lord Simus was. Marka was a half blood sith, and half bloods were hated and considered to be abnormal and an abomination to the old sith. Yet Marka was able to rise up from the very pits of the sith empire to rule, unchallenged for over a hundred and fifty years. He was so powerful that he was able to die of old age, an unheard of feat in the sith empire since the sith challenged their master for control as soon as they thought that they had a chance of victory. Yet even with this mentality, and the fact that he was hated by all, nobody dared to challenge him, knowing that they would loose. They allowed someone that they hated and was an abomination to them to rule unchallenged for over 150 years. And this was during the height of the sith, their golden age. The ruling sith could easily throw stars around (Marka’s successor, Naga Sadow could, also it was not a power that was specific to Sadow; Exar Kun destroyed several stars, yes one was using Sadow’s ship, but the other was by himself, so if Exar could do it using only Sadow’s notes, it stands to reason that the other sith lords in Sadow’s time could blow up stars as well), yet they could not over-throw him. Even when he was weak and on his deathbed, they did not dare to challenge him. Imagine, there is a person who you hate above all else, has ruled over you, you have support to kill him, you can throw stars at people and rule over massive fleets that could destroy the republic. Also, if you killed him you would be rewarded above all and rule the galaxy. He is old, sick, dying with cancer and in extreme pain. Would you not think that you could kill him? Probably, but Naga Sadow, how had all that power that I mentioned, still did not think he had the power to kill Marka.

Actually, they hated him even more than they hated other half bloods because he did not expand the sith empire much during his rule. He only expanded the sith empire slightly because he did not want to encounter the Republic, he alone out of the sith knew what they had done to the old sith and he was unsure if they were still that strong. However, he still knew that the sith needed to fight, so he decided that he would make them all attack him. He got all the other sith to attack him so they wouldn’t attack the republic and reveal themselves. He did this knowing that if even one of them succeeded, he was dead, yet nobody succeeded. So he was in constant combat for a while, at least until the other sith realized that nobody could beat him. So he was in constant combat for at least several years.

Even after his death the sith still listened to him, his spirit returned while Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh were fighting for control of the sith and he ordered them to stop. They did. Just think, he is dead, and they hate him, but they will still listen to him, knowing his power. He was so powerful that he could even get the next two most powerful dark lords to stop fighting and bow down to him. He could get sith to stop fighting for the title of dark lord of the sith! That is very impressive since sith do not stop fighting for just anything, especially when they are fighting over something that important and it is a duel to the death.

Marka also had tremendous physical and force power and was huge physically. He used a massive sword with cortosis weave, meaning that lightsabers and blasters would not harm it. He also had a staff and his staff could steal force power from others, cause earthquakes as well as fire a ‘laser-like’ blast of force energy, which caused massive damage and could blast through solid rock. Also, he would have been very skilled with his weapons, having fought his way to the top of the empire. Kreia said that the best duellers in her day are like children wielding sticks compared to the duellers in ancient times. Also, in her day there were sith lords like Exar Kun, Ulic-Qel Droma, Darth Revan and Darth Malak, all considered to be excellent duellers, yet apparently, the ancient sith (whom Marka led unchallenged for over 150 years) outclass them all.

Marka was also very cunning and smart. He controlled and manipulated entire sith empire for over 150 years. He would not be able to be fooled in battle and would use the battle setting to his own advantage.

Over 1000 years later his spirit returned and told Exar and Ulic to stop fighting, even though they had no reason to listen and had no idea who he was, they listened because they could feel his power, he ordered them around and they did as he wished. He was so powerful that even 1000 years after his death his gloves still retained traces of his power and memory (allowing only dark-siders to wear them). Also even 5200 years after his death his staff still retains traces of his power and is a powerful weapon, able to steal the force and use it to charge non-force sensitive people with the force. It was so powerful, that even 5200 years after his death it still could restore him to life.

Also, It is not the act of blowing up stars that makes what Naga Sadow did so impressive; it's the enormous potential needed. Naga Sadow was very influential, as was Ludo Kressh. Of the two, I believe Sadow was the better, and would have had no problem solidifying his rise to power in any case. Look how easily he led the Sith against the Republic! Also, even though Naga could throw stars at people, he was still challenged for control of the sith after only a few months, maybe a year. And he could throw stars around! Naga was also a respected sith (or as respected as you can get). Marka was hated and he was still never challenged.

So influence wasn't keeping Sadow from gutting Ragnos, because everyone hated Marka and wanted to see him dead. He was a half-breed and Sith, true Sith like Ludo and Naga, hated half breeds. And it wasn't out of respect or loyalty that Sadow allowed Ragnos to live. Once you eliminate the possibilities, it becomes obvious that Sadow simply could not defeat Ragnos and knew it.


thank you lord darkstar

Post one point at a time. And dude, I really don't want to get into a feat war with you so leave all of the irrelevant stuff out.

There's nothing irrelevant to Ragnos in there. He's only noting the abilities that Naga Sadow and the Ancient Sith Empire possessed. And posting one point at a time would be idiotic and against the whole 'no double-posting' gig that all forums have.

'Marka Ragnos was the ninth dark lord of the sith.'
This is irrelevant.

Lots of that is also inaccurate. When did Exar blow up a star? Since when did the sith throw stars with the force?

I'm not saying everything is wrong in that post, Avis - but most of those are unsupported assumptions, don't really make too much sense, and contradict on occasion.

Unsupported assumptions/No sense/Contradictions/etc:



Said where exactly? Could be (but I doubt it the Sith Empire was around 2,000 years prior), but I don't remember where it says this - nor what relevance it holds over Marka being the most powerful.



Ludo Kressh sure as hell didn't seem to hate Ragnos - he held him to the highest degree of respect, and even reprimanded Sadow for coming late:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1507/shameonyou7as.th.jpg



Really? Shown where? Proved where? Nowhere.



Really? Shown where? Proved where? Nowhere.

Where does he "blow up stars by himself"?



No, Sadow's illusions, and Sith forces were good enough to nearly conquer the Republic on three major cities. Once his illusions were foiled by Gav - the Republic pushed back the Sith forces.



The Sith Empire didn't control the entire galaxy - not even close to "ruling the galaxy". Ruling the Sith Empire? Yes. Galaxy? No.



We don't know the extent of Ragnos' death. He could've passed peacefully with minimal pain. I wouldn't use that as a comparison.



Really? Shown where? Proved where? Nowhere.



Exar Kun knew who he was:

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7539/heyiknowyou3mg.th.jpg

And, he didn't order them around - Ragnos even says "By your free choice...", they choose their destiny.



Okay? What do his gloves (and what the hell are you talking about anyways? KOTOR2?) have to do with his power?



"All hail the memory of Marka Ragnos!" - seems Ludo Kressh was Ragnos' #1 supporter:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/235/allhailragnos9wy.th.jpg



Unchallenged? But, but - I thought he was in "constant combat":



Contradiction perhaps?

what is your god dam*ed evidance numan?

Someone had to instruct Aleema on doing it, though I don't exactly see where it puts out "Exar Kun blew up stars". Provide a quote, please.

Ludo loved Ragnos. Everyone else didn't. I think the glove thing is a metaphor. Naga threw stars rather easily. by unchallenged i think it means that he never had a real threat to his power. He told them to take the galaxy and they obeyed but failed. This is what i think anyways. Darkstar wrote it.

It was actually Lord Darkstar who originally provided that info. He was also an antediluvian.

who the fuc* cares what he was! you will be banned in an hour so provide your argument!

Originally posted by Darth Avis
who the fuc* cares what he was! you will be banned in an hour so provide your argument! Settle down, Avis, no need to get riled up over him. And he still hasn't presented an argument that says otherwise.

Where is this coming from?

Originally posted by DarthSaboteur
Settle down, Avis, no need to get riled up over him. And he still hasn't presented an argument that says otherwise.

I don't need to present an argument. I am not the one making bold assumptions.

Originally posted by darthnuman
I don't need to present an argument. I am not the one making bold assumptions. so im wrong because i made 1 or 2 assumptions? you are a genius!

Originally posted by darthnuman
I don't need to present an argument. I am not the one making bold assumptions.

Well, why don't you present what you said:

Originally posted by darthnuman
Man I properly planned a huge argument against Ragnos that cannot be refuted. Are the bans temporary or permanent?

Post it.

As well, this is a bold statement: "That cannot be refuted". And, really that is quite an assumption to make. You could be right, but post it, and we shall see.

Motoko switch your sig back to the gunz sig. That was the best.

you are right. darkstar made some assumptions. Still most of it is right.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
so im wrong because i made 1 or 2 assumptions? you are a genius!

The bold assumption that I mentioned was 'Ragnos is the most powerful force user ever'

Originally posted by KMC Dark Lord
Motoko switch your sig back to the gunz sig. That was the best.

You really like that one? I didn't blend anything barely, and just pasted the two renders onto it without doing anything to them lol.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
You really like that one? I didn't blend anything barely, and just pasted the two renders onto it without doing anything to them lol.

Meh, I dont know why I liek that one so much. I just...do. Odd.

Originally posted by darthnuman
The bold assumption that I mentioned was 'Ragnos is the most powerful force user ever' what if i think he is? prove me wrong!

Well, if KJA says Kun is stronger, then Kun is stronger.

Which means Kun is stronger than Sadow, Kressh, and all the Ancient Sith.

hahahahhahahahahahhahahaahhahahahahahahh!!!!111111
111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!111111!!!1!11111

KJA owns his character. He can make whatever he wants of them.

If he says Kun > Ragnos... Then that is Star Wars EU fact.

Numan we are waiting.

Originally posted by darthnuman
I don't need to present an argument. I am not the one making bold assumptions. All I have to do is refute yours.

how does that prove me wrong you noob? you said you had an unbeatable argument. show it!

I said that I would show it to the antediluvians.

Nice excuse, Numan. And aren't you also supposed to be debating Calvin, too?

you are the biggest noob ever!

Originally posted by Razielim
KJA owns his character. He can make whatever he wants of them.

If he says Kun > Ragnos... Then that is Star Wars EU fact.

No, actually he can't. KJA is not an authority on SW. Things in his books and comics that have been approved by LucasArts are an authority. What KJA says doesn't matter. He doesn't control them.

still waiting Numan...

Originally posted by darthnuman
I said that I would show it to the antediluvians.

However if Sorgo were to reveal himself....

Originally posted by darthnuman
that is because you dont have an argument

Hey dude guess what. YOU'RE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE.

you are a 10 year old noob with an ego the size of a SSD.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
No, actually he can't. KJA is not an authority on SW. Things in his books and comics that have been approved by LucasArts are an authority. What KJA says doesn't matter. He doesn't control them.

He is still 2nd in command or whatever his rank is. Before everyone argued that Dan Wallace's opinion did not matter and that KJA was the real voice to be heard from, now KJA says something like Kun>Ragnos and despite agreeing before that NOW everyone thinks he has nothing to say and Lucus could only decide who is better than who, and IF someone emailed Lucus and he said Kun>Ragnos then God knows what you will argue against next.

ohh numan...

No, actually he can't. KJA is not an authority on SW. Things in his books and comics that have been approved by LucasArts are an authority. What KJA says doesn't matter. He doesn't control them.

IIRC, legally, they still belong to him. He still does have authority of the Star Wars characters he created. Legally.

Wow... yay for unfounded bullshit...

Kudos to Motoko for actually making sense... anyways whatever this place is like a dead man who refuses to fall down.

*leaves*

GONE?

Motoko is the only person to actually contribute, and it's because she tore apart a would-be argument. Numan, I doubt you have an argumen- whoops... you're banned.

Lord darkstar made it okay. and most of it is true. MOST!

OMG you are kidding right? Even in terms of the ancient sith, Tulak Hord, Hord Opun Urk, Ram Tul Pow, Simus and Naga Sadow have him beat. Dulgar Kun could probably challenge him too. And there are probably a bunch of other sith that I can't think of right now that would put him to the test. And that is the ancient sith alone, who really were'nt that powerful.

Originally posted by l0rd?
OMG you are kidding right? Even in terms of the ancient sith, Tulak Hord, Hord Opun Urk, Ram Tul Pow, Simus and Naga Sadow have him beat. Dulgar Kun could probably challenge him too. And there are probably a bunch of other sith that I can't think of right now that would put him to the test. And that is the ancient sith alone, who really were'nt that powerful. Unsupported hyperbole, and most of those characters aren't real, so sir, I have something to say:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/LordSaboteur/mankissdog.jpg

Point out the hyperbole.

Originally posted by l0rd?
Point out the hyperbole. You're a sig thief, too? Wow.

Now for the hyperbole: Originally posted by l0rd?
OMG you are kidding right? Even in terms of the ancient sith, Tulak Hord, Hord Opun Urk, Ram Tul Pow, Simus and Naga Sadow have him beat. Dulgar Kun could probably challenge him too. And there are probably a bunch of other sith that I can't think of right now that would put him to the test. And that is the ancient sith alone, who really were'nt that powerful. You say that Hord, Sadow, and Simus, three Ancient Sith during Ragnos' time could beat him one-on-one? Laughable. If so were true then Simus would've killed Marka when he challenged him for the title of Dark Lord, Sadow would've killed him on his death bed and Tulak "I gotz teh skillz" Hord can beat Marka "I'm theDark Lord of Dark Lords" Ragnos in combat.

And to tell you that Hord Opun Urk, Dulgar Kun, and Ram Tul Pow aren't existing characters. Now stop this B.S and accept the facts.

Firstly, Hord was not in Ragnos' time and he is definitely the greatest sith. I mean he could telekenetically crush force-sensetive chrystals, and he basically created Nihilus and his force consumation technique (with a bit of help from Ajunta Pall). Simus was 100x better then Ragnos. I mean he had his sword held against ragnos' head, but decided not to kill him for the best of the sith empire. He didn't expect Ragnos to get a cheap shot. And Sadow far surpasses Ragnos. This is obvious.

No, and I know Hord isn't in Ragnos' time, I was making an example. And that's all bullshit, nothing in that post is ever shown in souce material, Hord only appears in the 2 KotOR's and even then he displays nothing that'd even suggest or implicate what you say.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/LordSaboteur/mankissdog.jpg

Actually, Kja is the man who created Kun and Ragnos, so he is perfectly within his rights to say who is or is not stronger. He doesn't own them, they're LFL's domain, but seriously? he can say who he designed to be stronger, and that supercedes a fan opinion, and this guy's work is heavily disregarded in the general community

Yeah, that's true. And just to be a spelling perfectionist "general community".

yall have anymore cartoons?

Originally posted by l0rd?
Point out the hyperbole.

Umm... WTF is that shit who allowed you to post my sig as yours. Get it off!

did you report him, cause I think that there is some sort of rule for that?

I told Lana and REX about it.

Oh, also, this 'half breeds were an abomination' thing? Bullshit, most of the Sith Lords were hybrids

lolreporting

Originally posted by Boris
lolreporting Two things. 1: Who're you reporting and why? And 2: Oh snap!

I'm amused at the talk of reporting over a sig...

Yeah, and I ain't gonna use a corny quote on crime.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
to save him the trouble...Marka Ragnos was the ninth dark lord of the sith. He succeeded Lord Simus and beheaded him. However Simus was so powerful that he was able to keep his head alive, however Marka was even more powerful than Lord Simus was. Marka was a half blood sith, and half bloods were hated and considered to be abnormal and an abomination to the old sith. Yet Marka was able to rise up from the very pits of the sith empire to rule, unchallenged for over a hundred and fifty years. He was so powerful that he was able to die of old age, an unheard of feat in the sith empire since the sith challenged their master for control as soon as they thought that they had a chance of victory. Yet even with this mentality, and the fact that he was hated by all, nobody dared to challenge him, knowing that they would loose. They allowed someone that they hated and was an abomination to them to rule unchallenged for over 150 years. And this was during the height of the sith, their golden age. The ruling sith could easily throw stars around (Marka’s successor, Naga Sadow could, also it was not a power that was specific to Sadow; Exar Kun destroyed several stars, yes one was using Sadow’s ship, but the other was by himself, so if Exar could do it using only Sadow’s notes, it stands to reason that the other sith lords in Sadow’s time could blow up stars as well), yet they could not over-throw him. Even when he was weak and on his deathbed, they did not dare to challenge him. Imagine, there is a person who you hate above all else, has ruled over you, you have support to kill him, you can throw stars at people and rule over massive fleets that could destroy the republic. Also, if you killed him you would be rewarded above all and rule the galaxy. He is old, sick, dying with cancer and in extreme pain. Would you not think that you could kill him? Probably, but Naga Sadow, how had all that power that I mentioned, still did not think he had the power to kill Marka.

Actually, they hated him even more than they hated other half bloods because he did not expand the sith empire much during his rule. He only expanded the sith empire slightly because he did not want to encounter the Republic, he alone out of the sith knew what they had done to the old sith and he was unsure if they were still that strong. However, he still knew that the sith needed to fight, so he decided that he would make them all attack him. He got all the other sith to attack him so they wouldn’t attack the republic and reveal themselves. He did this knowing that if even one of them succeeded, he was dead, yet nobody succeeded. So he was in constant combat for a while, at least until the other sith realized that nobody could beat him. So he was in constant combat for at least several years.

Even after his death the sith still listened to him, his spirit returned while Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh were fighting for control of the sith and he ordered them to stop. They did. Just think, he is dead, and they hate him, but they will still listen to him, knowing his power. He was so powerful that he could even get the next two most powerful dark lords to stop fighting and bow down to him. He could get sith to stop fighting for the title of dark lord of the sith! That is very impressive since sith do not stop fighting for just anything, especially when they are fighting over something that important and it is a duel to the death.

Marka also had tremendous physical and force power and was huge physically. He used a massive sword with cortosis weave, meaning that lightsabers and blasters would not harm it. He also had a staff and his staff could steal force power from others, cause earthquakes as well as fire a ‘laser-like’ blast of force energy, which caused massive damage and could blast through solid rock. Also, he would have been very skilled with his weapons, having fought his way to the top of the empire. Kreia said that the best duellers in her day are like children wielding sticks compared to the duellers in ancient times. Also, in her day there were sith lords like Exar Kun, Ulic-Qel Droma, Darth Revan and Darth Malak, all considered to be excellent duellers, yet apparently, the ancient sith (whom Marka led unchallenged for over 150 years) outclass them all.

Marka was also very cunning and smart. He controlled and manipulated entire sith empire for over 150 years. He would not be able to be fooled in battle and would use the battle setting to his own advantage.

Over 1000 years later his spirit returned and told Exar and Ulic to stop fighting, even though they had no reason to listen and had no idea who he was, they listened because they could feel his power, he ordered them around and they did as he wished. He was so powerful that even 1000 years after his death his gloves still retained traces of his power and memory (allowing only dark-siders to wear them). Also even 5200 years after his death his staff still retains traces of his power and is a powerful weapon, able to steal the force and use it to charge non-force sensitive people with the force. It was so powerful, that even 5200 years after his death it still could restore him to life.

Also, It is not the act of blowing up stars that makes what Naga Sadow did so impressive; it's the enormous potential needed. Naga Sadow was very influential, as was Ludo Kressh. Of the two, I believe Sadow was the better, and would have had no problem solidifying his rise to power in any case. Look how easily he led the Sith against the Republic! Also, even though Naga could throw stars at people, he was still challenged for control of the sith after only a few months, maybe a year. And he could throw stars around! Naga was also a respected sith (or as respected as you can get). Marka was hated and he was still never challenged.

So influence wasn't keeping Sadow from gutting Ragnos, because everyone hated Marka and wanted to see him dead. He was a half-breed and Sith, true Sith like Ludo and Naga, hated half breeds. And it wasn't out of respect or loyalty that Sadow allowed Ragnos to live. Once you eliminate the possibilities, it becomes obvious that Sadow simply could not defeat Ragnos and knew it.


thank you lord darkstar

Wow this argument is totally flawed. I mean there are a bunch of things that aren't even true, much of it is completely exagerated and much of the logic is simply fallacious.

read the entire thread!

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
read the entire thread!

?

No, Fox is right...there's much in that thread that's completely untrue or exagerrated

that is a post in a thread in a forum.

Your point being???

Well, it still does not mean Luke/Sidious > Ragnos.

All that simply does it place Exar Kun as the top dog.

Now unless someone decides to refute it....with proper arguments..then i guess your still beat.

Well if all that Ragnos has is a quote backing him being the most powerful, and that quote is refuted then there is really no reason to believe he is the most powerful, and I have seen that quote being refuted countless times.

Yeah, right, there's so much evidence for Luke being above anyone else...and Ragnos has a quote that was refuted.

Yeah, Deception, just try arguing this. Luke? greatest force of light the galaxy'd ever seen by DE?

Ragnos blows, LMAO.

Wait, I have the answer. Good always wins over evil!

Originally posted by overlord
Wait, I have the answer. Good always wins over evil! You win the prize! This topic is: http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/LordSaboteur/KMC%20Forum%20Pics/loldead.jpg

Could a moderator close this down, please?