Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Setting is the invisible Hand, the Generals Quarters. My moneys on Dooku and Grievous.

dooku alone can do it.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
dooku alone can do it.

No, he can't.

I doubt it. Though Dooku could probablyu take either alone. If Vader takes on Grievous then Dooku can pwn Obi-Wan quickly and he and Grievous together'd pwn Vader.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
No, he can't. Anakin is retarded when he turned and dooku pwned obi wan before. he can pwn them both.

Grievious could tie up Obi-Wan for all of a minute, but against Anakin I'd wager he'd be more effective. Dooku can take Obi-Wan out of the fight easily, and if he had used the force on Anakin or taken the fight seriously, he would have floored Skywalker too. Grievous and Dooku take this.

I'm not sure but couldn't Obi-Wan have lasted longer against Dooku alone if he only defended instead of attacking (together with Anakin). I bet he could more effectivley survive against Dooku if he actually used his style....

That's what I thought. I think Grievous would do very well against Anakin, allowing Dooku to wtf pwn Obi and help the cyborg pwn "Teh cHoSEn 1"

Originally posted by kamikz
I'm not sure but couldn't Obi-Wan have lasted longer against Dooku alone if he only defended instead of attacking (together with Anakin). I bet he could more effectivley survive against Dooku if he actually used his style....
I doubt it. Obi-Wan fights defensive, right? So he'd wait for Dooku to engage him in lightsaber combat so he could defend himself. However, Dooku'd merely smile and use the Force to pwn Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan would have no way of blocking it. Anakin, on the other hand, well, in ROTS Dooku was to busy blocking Anakin, who was all over him, to use the Force. Which is way Anakin beat him, IMO.

Correct. But with the General On his Side, He can pull out some nasty Force Powers. Grievous should be able to handle Anakin in a pure lightsaber fight. 16 attacks a SECOND.

Grievous and Dooku should be able to pull this off.

This is the first thread I've seen where everyone agrees


Keep in mind this isn't Anakin, but ROTS Darth Vader.

Last time I remember, Anakin outmatched Dooku and killed him...Obi-wan's also a massive foil to Grievous

Obi-Wan fights Grievous and pwns him, Anakin fights Dooku and beats him.

Obi & Anakin win.

This is a stupid fight, both happened in ROTS, and Anakin and Obi won they're respective fights...So why ask who wins? lol

Are you serious....Dooku>Anakin. He wasn't trying at all, not to mention he was tired from fighting a 2 vs 1 battle.

Grievous could tie up Anakin for a long, long time. Anakin is aggressive, but he wouldn't be able to be on the offensive against someone who can do 16 strikes a second.

The duo OWNS them.

Where does it say Dooku wasn't trying with Anakin, again?

Hm, because in the novelization, Dooku realized if he didn't fight seriously, he was a dead man...And Anakin was the best Form V specialist Dooku'd seen

so let me get this straight. Dooku WTFpwns obiwan, who is equal to anakin, but anakin beat him? right. yep.

Dooku>Anakin. It's SO easy to see.


Grievous would have a hellava fight with Anakin, while Dooku is PWNING Obi-Wan and then Dooku comes in and fries Anakin with lightening.

Hmmm, perhaps you're incapable of seeing fight circumstances and how styles can differ.

Nope, sorry, official source overrides you: Dooku tried quite hard and died.

First of all, A>B>C comparisons don't always work. The upper tier of the PT doesn't work this way (Sidious > Dooku > Mace > Sidious, as another example).

Now let's look at Anakin and Obi-Wan's fight.

- George Lucas says that they are not equal. He says, in the RotS commentary, that Darth Vader was superior to Kenobi in both lightsaber dueling and force power.
- Anakin wasn't as good as Kenobi in the emotions department. Kenobi had far greater control over his emotions.
Add this to the fact that Anakin was going through intense emotional anguish with Padme.
- Kenobi used a saber form (Soresu) who's purpose was to draw out fights. He basically stretched out the fight until Anakin did something stupid to mess up. Not only that, but his saber guard was never penetrated after becoming THE Soresu master.
- Alot of the fight involved lava skateboarding, climbing and balance-fighting. Kenobi was usually the first to run to these things
- Anakin comes close to wrecking him a few times. A hard kick to the chest comes to mind as well.
- Kenobi was his teacher and best friend. He knows him inside out.
- Anakin was winning the fight. At the line "This is the end for you my master" Kenobi is breathing hard and Anakin looks fine.
- Even with all these advantages for Kenobi, Anakin IIRC, according to GL, was going to win the fight if it continued.

Just my opinion though. It could very well be Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi > Anakin.

I think Dooku could take Anakin in a fight if he doesn't get tired out. Anakin would win if the fight lasted long enough that Dooku got tired, which is might since it'd take alot of energy for Dooku to block Anakin's attacks.

According to the RotS novelization, Anakin wore him out by smashing him with powerful hits of Djem So. Doesn't seem too different from the movie.

In the movie, Obi-Wan and Anakin were 2 vs 1 Dooku. That's why he got so tired...

Actually, it doesn't really show Dooku getting tired at all. Does it?

dooku wasn't supposed to kill anakin. If he wanted to he could of. the book, which is very contradictory of the movie, says he was trying hard. if he was really trying don't you think he would use lightning or a huge push?

Don't know. Why didn't Sidious use force push on Mace? Why didn't Qui-Gon or Kenobi use force push on Maul? Why didn't Vader force push Obi in ANH? Why didn't Obi do the same?

plot induced stupidity?

Natch.

what is that?

Ok, Dooku>Anakin. In the beginning of ROTS, Dooku was not trying his hardest. He was taunting him and egging him on. He was practically talking for half of the fight. He also underestimated Anakin, because he beat him so easily before. If Dooku was trying his hardest to kill Anakin, he could have done so.

Another possible reason for why Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin was because maybe he wanted him to be another Dark Jedi follower like Sora Bulq.

Anyway, I think that Grievous and Dooku would win. I mean if Dooku was trying his hardest in the beginning of ROTS he would have won. So if you put Grievous into the equation, it becomes too much.

Except the novelization makes it clear Dooku was trying his hardest and was fairly defeated

Yeah, except ROTS contradicts the ROTS novelization. So guess what? The ROTS novelization=not canon.

Oooh, too bad, sorry...the official canonity puts it...*GASP* ABOVE any other level of canon save the movies, wow! Hm, why have the novelizations, which received line by line edits from Lucas been placed above any other level of EU, especially when having been used by some bigwigs to explain things in a specific case when nothing contradicts the movie?

Could it be...the novelization>Your opinion?

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
dooku wasn't supposed to kill anakin. If he wanted to he could of. the book, which is very contradictory of the movie, says he was trying hard. if he was really trying don't you think he would use lightning or a huge push?
That'was what LOE says. Lucas says different in the ROTS AC. He says Dooku only though he was supposed to fight Anakin, he didn't know Sidious was using him to test Anakin. And he could use the Force cause he was to busy trying to block Anakin's atatcks.


Seriously, he hated Anakin with a passion, he didn't want him on his side.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oooh, too bad, sorry...the official canonity puts it...*GASP* ABOVE any other level of canon save the movies, wow! Hm, why have the novelizations, which received line by line edits from Lucas been placed above any other level of EU, especially when having been used by some bigwigs to explain things in a specific case when nothing contradicts the movie?

Could it be...the novelization>Your opinion?
It covers the same timeline as the ROTS movie, yet it adds different things. The movies are the highest form of canon, so if the novelization adds different things that didn't happen in the movie, then it isn't canon.

Except the officials consider the non contradictions canon and this received a line by line edit from Lucas, it is EU and if these parts don't contradict the movies?
Yep, canon.

whats with people and trying to fight the power. I mean god if the damned book that GL SAYS IS CANNON, says that Dooku actually tried, and lost, than damn it he tried and lost. Count Dooku isn't the best thing since sliced bread.

...

...



I hate that line

but the book is NOT CANON. In the duel it has tables bieng thrown and kicking and punching and Dooku bieng a ninja. it has mace cut fistos head off and sidious beating mace in the lightning struggle. It was probably a first draft of the movie, so the real, CANON movie contridicts it. The Movie is the highest point of canon and if something contridicts it that much (those are just the things i can remember off hand) it is NON CANON!!!

Well my freind. If GL says iutsa Cannon. It's Cannon. If the book shows Mace WIndu fighting Anakin at Mustafar and GL: calls it Cannon, than its Cannon.

show me a quote where Lucas says it is canon.

-canon is "George"-absolute canon; the six Episodes and anything coming directly from George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements coming directly from Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources (it's possible that movie novelizations contradict the movies or other EU sources) is C-canon (see below)."

This from the Holocron database

Originally posted by KMC Dark Lord
Count Dooku isn't the best thing since sliced bread

On the contrary, he is better than sliced bread!!!

Originally posted by Rampant ox
On the contrary, he is better than sliced bread!!!

Well, he did get "sliced" (hands/head) - so we'll consider him the equivalent.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Well, he did get "sliced" (hands/head) - so we'll consider him the equivalent.

That deeply offends me...crycry

Originally posted by Rampant ox
That deeply offends me...crycry I'm sure it does, but it's true. And if anything, sliced bread is far better off than Dooku's atmosphere burned and decapitated corpse.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
-canon is "George"-absolute canon; the six Episodes and anything coming directly from George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements coming directly from Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon
This from the Holocron database


Hence, its cannon.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
-canon is "George"-absolute canon; the six Episodes and anything coming directly from George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements coming directly from Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources (it's possible that movie novelizations contradict the movies or other EU sources) is C-canon (see below)."

This from the Holocron database
The movie is the final draft of what Lucas wanted it to be. True, there are a lot of things in the novelization that are canon, but there are also things in it that didn't happen in the ROTS movie. Since they didn't happen in the movie, they contradict the movie. Anything that contradicts the movie isn't canon.

So the basic storyline of the ROTS novelization is true, but not every single detail.

And since this detail contradicts...nothing or comes from Lucas...

Except George Lucas never said that Dooku tried his hardest now did he? It only said it in the novelization. The novelization wasn't written by George Lucas it was written by Stover. He didn't come to Lucas asking about every single detail. Lucas just gave him a rought draft of the script to go off of.

Lucas says Dooku only thought he was suppoed to fight Anakin. He wasn't instructed to hold back. So if he held back it was due to his own arrogance.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Lucas says Dooku only thought he was suppoed to fight Anakin. He wasn't instructed to hold back. So if he held back it was due to his own arrogance.

I never said that Lucas said that Dooku was holding back. I just said that Lucas never said he was trying his hardest.

However, it is most likely that he was holding back.

The duo take this easily. Dooku>Anakin 1 vs 1. Even if he doesn't Dooku wtf pwns Obi-Wan while Anakin and Grievous are having a huge fight, then Dooku comes over to help and they pwn Anakin.

And what if instead Obi-Wan fights GG wheil Anaki nfights Dooku? Than obi-Wan WTFpwns GG than goes over to help Anakin DESTROY Dooku. hell, Anakin might be able to do it by himself.

no...Grievous would not "wtf pwn" grievous. He takes so long to freakin attack.... And before the clones came, Grievous was still on the offense. Grievous would not be "wtf pwnd" and it would take at least 10 mins for Obi to finish him off, by which time Anakin would be dead. Then Dooku owns Obi-Wan. Either way the duo win. Dooku beats Anakin faster than Obi-Wan beats grievous. He just shoots lightening, and god knows Anakin doesn't like lightning....

Originally posted by KMC Dark Lord
And what if instead Obi-Wan fights GG wheil Anaki nfights Dooku? Than obi-Wan WTFpwns GG than goes over to help Anakin DESTROY Dooku. hell, Anakin might be able to do it by himself.
Maybe you missed the beginning of ROTS, but Dooku didn't seem to have a hard time holding off Obi-Wan and Anakin. Hell, if he wasn't so arrogant and if he was trying his hardest, he would have won pretty damn easily.

Dooku and Grievous win this easily imo.

Except the novelization states he was trying his hardest, or something. Either way, you're claiming it was his arrogance that lost him the fight, right? Tell me, is the Count a smart being? I'd definitely say so. Would he know when he's in danger? I'd say so. Would he hold back if he was in danger? I don't think many would, the Count being one of those many.

So, unless you're telling me the Count lost on purpose, or has no clue if he is in danger or if he's so arrogant he couldn't sense that he's in danger - then yeah whatever.

However, he doesn't seem to be that arrogant in his actions (words - yes), and they don't seem to "blind" his thought process - the example being his duel with Yoda.

In the fight with Anakin in ROTS, he was frikken talking half of the time. He was smiling and taunting Anakin too.

And yes... he is arrogant and over confident "I have become more powerful than blah blah blah even you!" -AOTC then he uses force lightning on Yoda.

Also, read my earlier posts about the novelization.

Hm, according to the novelization again, the duo used weaker forms to trick Dooku.

Obi-wan>Grievous
anakin>Dooku.

... as I said before, the storyline of the novelization is accurate however every single detail is not.

Didn't look like he was smiling in their saberlock now, did he? And no, they didn't spend half the time talking - the fight lasted 30 some seconds (between Anakin and Dooku alone), and Dooku said one line.

Even in saying the one line, he didn't say casually like "O h3y Annie, u h4ve h8 ph33r but u d0nt us3 3m LOL ROFLCOPTER!!!!///1ihduvelven!". He even pauses when saying it.

Now, about him "smiling and laughing", he only did those things before they all entered the initial duel, so I don't see how during the fight he spent "half the time talking".




Again, as you seem to have failed to see what I said:

However, he doesn't seem to be that arrogant in his actions (words - yes), and they don't seem to "blind" his thought process - the example being his duel with Yoda.

Now tell me, did Dooku - even with saying that he had become more powerful - leave or not? Did he use a distraction to burden Yoda or not? If he was so confident, he would've disposed of Yoda. As they say "actions speak louder than words".




I did, you seem to either fail to grasp the point about it even after Lightsnake responded to your claims about it on several occasions.

Here's the jist of what you said:



And what does it contradict exactly? Nothing.



Okay, so I suppose details that back up the story and other crap like that is contradictory and/or is inaccurate? Details are inaccurate?

Anakin > Dooku ? Are you people serious ?

In this particular situation you can throw the ROTS novel out of the window. We can see Dooku blocking Obi-Wan and Anakin both at once using only one hand - but suddenly Anakin alone is too much for him ? He basically wiped the ground with them until the point he had taken Obi-Wan out of the fight.

And we also see him force choking Obi-Wan easily when we know that Anakin and Obi-Wan had equal force powers (when they try to force push each other on Mustafar). So it's quite save to assume that he could have done the same thing with Anakin too if he liked to do so.

I'm pretty sure that Obi-Wan and Anakin are both able to take Grievous down in a lightsaber duel. But Dooku can crush them both if he wants to. Possibly Anakin is a match for him in sheer saber combat (which I still doubt) but Dooku easily pwns him in terms of force control and force powers considering the fact that Anakin is only equal to Obi-Wan in this department (which we saw in ROTS) and Dooku easily took down Kenobi with the force.

We can see Dooku blocking Obi-Wan and Anakin both at once using only one hand - but suddenly Anakin alone is too much for him ? He basically wiped the ground with them until the point he had taken Obi-Wan out of the fight.

I have a theory for this.

A large theme in PT was that "Obi-Wan was holding Anakin back". Anakin feels that Kenobi limits him, and with Kenobi out of the picture, Anakin feels a bit more comfortable, or whatever.

Another thing: After Kenobi got eliminated, Anakin got pissed off. Sometimes when one taps into the Dark Side, they... win.

And we also see him force choking Obi-Wan easily when we know that Anakin and Obi-Wan had equal force powers (when they try to force push each other on Mustafar). So it's quite save to assume that he could have done the same thing with Anakin too if he liked to do so.

Keep in mind that you need to concentrate to channel the force. Because Anakin was going through so much, he couldn't concentrate as well? Just an idea. That, and Lucas says Anakin is the better force user, yet they stalemated there.

Or it could be Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi > Anakin.

Originally posted by DePWNZOR
no...Grievous would not "wtf pwn" grievous. He takes so long to freakin attack.... And before the clones came, Grievous was still on the offense. Grievous would not be "wtf pwnd" and it would take at least 10 mins for Obi to finish him off, by which time Anakin would be dead. Then Dooku owns Obi-Wan. Either way the duo win. Dooku beats Anakin faster than Obi-Wan beats grievous. He just shoots lightening, and god knows Anakin doesn't like lightning....

What the hell? Wiat, I forgot, you didnt' see Rots.

Because if you did you would see how the fight went in Rots on Utupau.


Dooku ignites 4 light sabrs and charges Obi. Obi IMMEDIATELY slices off one hand. GG gets angry and charges again, gets another hand cut off. GG runs.

If GG didn't run it would have been oevr in like 5 seconds. We already saw the beggining of GG's uber ass whooping. Hence, he was WTFpwns.

So. GG doesn't run away like alil b*tch, and gets pwnd in about three minutes. Obi-Wan runs to help Anakin and then the duo ges pwnd by the sliced bread.

omg, the KMC dark lord has spoken..

Nai...according to the novel, that's explained by:
A. The duo holding back to trick Dooku
B. Anakin giving in to his anger and outmassing Dooku

And let's not forget Sidious calls Anakin 'younger and more powerful' than Lord Tyrannus. There's no controversy: Sidious even told Dooku to fight to his best in LoE as if Anakin died, he'd be useless anyways and if Anakin outmassed Tyranus, Sidious would step in.

You'd think Sidious would want the best at that point in RotS. I mean, now was the time of the Jedi purge and invasion of the Jedi Temple. Why would he pick someone far inferior when the main action is happening now?

Hmmm.

Well, I know that a few of the upper tier KMC debators are very keen on using the official script as a source. I know that they did for the Yoda vs. Sidious fights.

The official script says that Count Dooku and Anakin fought each other, and gives no statements or hints that Dooku was not trying his hardest. In fact, the official script says that Dooku was defeated as "Anakin attacked Count Dooku with new ferociousness".

So the official script says that Dooku was simply defeated by Anakin as Anakin got angrier.

And, according to the ROTS movie commentary, Lucas says that Dooku doesn't know that Sidious has plans to make Anakin his apprentice, and that "Dooku just thinks he's supposed to fight Anakin".

The commentary and the script say the same thing - Dooku was trying his hardest, and Anakin simply defeated him.

Of course, that makes the inconsistencies even greater. But, Star Wars has its fair share of inconsistent facts. My opinion? I like to think that as the fight started, Dooku was screwing around with Anakin, but realized that he had to fight harder, and Anakin simply beat him.

But the script and commentary say otherwise. Sorry.

What contradicts that idea? I think it fits in well with what we know

Well, I'm just waiting for the guys who like to throw the script in my face to make a return appearance.

At any rate, going by the commentary and script - and the fact that Sidious said that Anakin was far younger and more powerful than Dooku, I'd have to say that:

Anakin > Dooku

Obi-Wan > Grievous

Dooku > Obi-Wan

Anakin > Grievous.

I'd say that the duo win if they engage in their respective duels.

They would be hard-pressed, however. I'd say that Anakin couldn't "blink" and Dooku fall over dead. He would be 'extremely' hard-pressed to do this. Obi-Wan can handle Grievous fairly easily. If Obi-Wan manages to come to Anakin's aid, I'd say that it's almost guarenteed that Dooku will die.

However, if Obi-Wan attempts to engage Dooku, he'll die, and then Grievous and Dooku team up and destroy Anakin.

Still, your idea has some merit...the novelization introduces the idea all three are just toying around at first, then Anakin and Obi-wan drop the facade and Dooku realizes he needs to get serious

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Still, your idea has some merit...the novelization introduces the idea all three are just toying around at first, then Anakin and Obi-wan drop the facade and Dooku realizes he needs to get serious

Thats what I thought at first as well.

You guys are still missing the point. Dooku was Sids apprentice and he was told NOT to kill Anakin. Anakin was to be turned to the darkside and become a general. Dooku does as he is told and doesnt kill Anakin. Not because he cant but because he isnt supposed to. Even when the odds are turning to Anakins favor Dooku isnt worried or fight harder to regain control because he is under the assumption that Sids will step in. So I find it hard to see how you can assume that Anakin is better when the odds were clearly against Dooku (two on one) and he WASNT SUPPOSED TO KILL ANAKIN in the first place.

Well if the script says he was suppsoed to. Than he WAS suppsoed to. But I might be unclear on what the scrip actually said.

I'll post what the script says.

I put all of the italics, bold, and underlined additions to the script. It emphasizes everything. So, there you have it. The script says nothing about Count Dooku holding back, or anything. Which leads me to believe that Anakin was simply more powerful.

I could be wrong, though.

Hmmmm. The script is canon so I cant argue it but it doesnt include important points, like the fact that Dooku wasnt trying to kill Anakin. The only parts that shows Anakin has the upper hand is when it says 'Anakin spins and kicks Count Dooku'. And the last part where it says 'Anakin cuts off Dookus hands'. And these are because one, Dooku had his attention focused on Kenobi when Anakin kicked him and two, Dooku was under the assumption that sids would help if Anakin became too strong.
The point I am making is that if it was a one on one match between Dooku and Anakin and Dooku was trying to win then the outcome would be very different.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hmmmm. The script is canon so I cant argue it but it doesnt include important points, like the fact that Dooku wasnt trying to kill Anakin. The only parts that shows Anakin has the upper hand is when it says 'Anakin spins and kicks Count Dooku'. And the last part where it says 'Anakin cuts off Dookus hands'. And these are because one, Dooku had his attention focused on Kenobi when Anakin kicked him and two, Dooku was under the assumption that sids would help if Anakin became too strong.
The point I am making is that if it was a one on one match between Dooku and Anakin and Dooku was trying to win then the outcome would be very different.

My point is that 'if' the point was that Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin, it would be in the script. Basically, the only real thing that supports it - that I am aware of - is just the opinions of people who are pro-Dooku. I like Count Dooku, and I agree that it doesn't make sense that he can WTFpwn Obi-Wan and yet Anakin can kick his ass, but Star Wars happens to be full of inconsistencies. There is no escaping it.

According to almost every other source that I have consulted, canon: the script, the novelization and non-canon: official Databank, Wikipedia, Wookipedia, and all other Revenge of the Sith-related books and guides indicate that Dooku was simply attempting to fight Anakin, and that he was trying his best.

In Labyrinth of Evil, Sidious said that "the fight must seem real", and that Anakin has to prove his worth by besting Dooku. So, knowing that Sidious would want the fight genuine to prove if Anakin possesses the power to join them, I'm not convinced that Dooku would go 'easy' on him.

All of the sources, and the commentary, state that Count Dooku was simply overpowered by Anakin's rage and incredible strength. Not that he was 'faking'.

Also, about the script -

It states that both Count Dooku and Obi-Wan get "tired", as Anakin gets even stronger, as the fight progresses. So, it is possible that as the fight began, Dooku was better, but as he grew tired, and Anakin grew stronger, they compensated for one another - allowing Anakin to finally defeat Count Dooku.

But, it says 'nothing' about Dooku 'holding back'. And since it's the official script, you'd think that it would.

Yes he was overpowered. I am not disputing that. But he was overpowered because he wasnt he wasnt going all out. He was under the impression that Sids would step in, this is why he was beaten. If you werent meant to kill someone and you had someone to watch your back if worst came to worst then you probably wouldnt try very hard either.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Yes he was overpowered. I am not disputing that. But he was overpowered because he wasnt he wasnt going all out. He was under the impression that Sids would step in, this is why he was beaten. If you werent meant to kill someone and you had someone to watch your back if worst came to worst then you probably wouldnt try very hard either.

Dude. Nothing in the official script supports that at all. Lucas doesn't support it. The databank doesn't support it. Only the novelization does.

The novelization's account of the battle is basically this:

Anakin and Obi-Wan 'hold back' on Count Dooku, to lure him into thinking that they are swordsmen of a lesser calibre so that he will relax. He does, and he toys with them, when in reality - he is the one being toyed with. Then, Obi-Wan and Anakin ramp up their skills, and Dooku realizes he's been duped. So, he begins to use his full skills. The novelization also states that he was 'barely' able to render Obi-Wan unconscious before taking on Anakin. Anakin and Dooku fight some more, before Dooku taunts Anakin - and then Anakin 'uses' his hatred. In fact, as I recall, the moment that Anakin 'realizes' that his hate makes him powerful, it said that 'Dooku is already dead'.

Essentially, it states the same thing. Dooku and Anakin and Obi-Wan all fought, in the beginning, on a lower tier than their full skill. Then, Dooku realized he needed to put all he had into it, but Anakin simply bested him.

I like the novelization's account best, personally, because it doesn't make it seem that Dooku got WTF-pwned.

Also, Sidious assured Grievous later that he: "would have an apprentice far younger and more powerful."

There ya have it.

But, I'm just tossing that out there. I've argued against the script before, which is why that I don't always agree. It, too, is full of inconsistencies. But, apparently, it doesn't mean that it's not canon. So... who knows?

The movie is higher canon than the novelisation. So the comment about Dooku 'barely' being able to take out Kenobi is a load of bull. We clearly see him force choke kenobi off the ground and throw him to the other side of the room while fighting off Anakin.
So while your arguments are extremely well presented can you honestly say that in a fair, one on one fight Anakin would win?

Originally posted by Rampant ox
The movie is higher canon than the novelisation. So the comment about Dooku 'barely' being able to take out Kenobi is a load of bull. We clearly see him force choke kenobi off the ground and throw him to the other side of the room while fighting off Anakin.
So while your arguments are extremely well presented can you honestly say that in a fair, one on one fight Anakin would win?

Just becasue it doesn't show a struggle between Dooku and Obi-Wan doesn't mean that their might nto have been a mental, silent battle. Theirs a good chance Obi-Wan may have perhaps tried to resist Dooku.

Even if there was a struggle Dooku managed to overcome Kenobi while fending off Anakin.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
The movie is higher canon than the novelisation. So the comment about Dooku 'barely' being able to take out Kenobi is a load of bull. We clearly see him force choke kenobi off the ground and throw him to the other side of the room while fighting off Anakin.
So while your arguments are extremely well presented can you honestly say that in a fair, one on one fight Anakin would win?

Personally? Personally, I'd say that it could go either way. I may be crucified by the others, when they arrive, but it doesn't matter. Once, I would say that Count Dooku would have totally crushed Anakin in a fair fight. But, then when I looked at the bigger picture, I'd say that the fight scene was loaded with inconsistencies.

So, let me put it to you like this. My opinion is that Anakin only bested Count Dooku when he realized that if he focused his rage, he could turn it into something that would amplify his skill. He was reckless, and only gained the skill needed to kill Count Dooku after Dooku taunted him.

I don't know quite how to word it. Let me just say that it wouldn't surprise me if the fight went either way. Count Dooku has experience and expertise on his side, but Anakin has so much damn 'raw power'.

In certain situations, I could see either of them overcoming the other.

In pure lightsaber talent, I'd put Anakin - easily - on equal footing with Yoda, Sidious, Mace Windu, and Count Dooku. But, Windu and Dooku have experience and precision that Anakin lacks, while Yoda and Sidious have overwhelming Force power.

Hahaha. Well put!!clapclapclap

Originally posted by Escape81
Personally? Personally, I'd say that it could go either way. I may be crucified by the others, when they arrive, but it doesn't matter. Once, I would say that Count Dooku would have totally crushed Anakin in a fair fight. But, then when I looked at the bigger picture, I'd say that the fight scene was loaded with inconsistencies.

So, let me put it to you like this. My opinion is that Anakin only bested Count Dooku when he realized that if he focused his rage, he could turn it into something that would amplify his skill. He was reckless, and only gained the skill needed to kill Count Dooku after Dooku taunted him.

I don't know quite how to word it. Let me just say that it wouldn't surprise me if the fight went either way. Count Dooku has experience and expertise on his side, but Anakin has so much damn 'raw power'.

In certain situations, I could see either of them overcoming the other.

Excellent. And Ox I don't want you to think that I hate Dooku or anything, cause I don't. i also apologize for any bashing I've done to you. Thats not cool.

Originally posted by KMC Dark Lord
Excellent. And Ox I don't want you to think that I hate Dooku or anything, cause I don't. i also apologize for any bashing I've done to you. Thats not cool.

Hey man, its all good!!

The game confirms that Dooku knew about Sidious' plan.

Originally posted by Master Fox
The game confirms that Dooku knew about Sidious' plan.

The game isn't canon. Point moot.

EDIT

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
EDIT

Reported.

Elmtirk is on his way to a ban as it is.

Originally posted by Escape81
The game isn't canon. Point moot.

Canon is a point of view.

Kent, canon isn't a point of view. This specifically states what is canon and what isn't canon.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon always overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

C-canon is primarily comprised of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

S-canon is "secondary" canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

N-canon is "non-canon". What-if stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), game stats, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm.

There ya go.

I suck at life.

1) grievous handled five jedi nights
2) again obiwan has to use his wisdom instead of skill to beat him
3) some argue that dooku is more powerful than sids
4) dooku handled AOTC anakin and obiwan and yoda no sweat right?
5) obviosly they win

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
1) grievous handled five jedi nights
2) again obiwan has to use his wisdom instead of skill to beat him
3) some argue that dooku is more powerful than sids
4) dooku handled AOTC anakin and obiwan and yoda no sweat right?
5) obviosly they win
1. So?
2. Except it's clear he used his mastery of Soresu to beat him
3. And they're wrong, Dooku even admits inferiority.
4. No sweat? He was beaten by Yoda and turned tail

Originally posted by Escape81
My point is that 'if' the point was that Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin, it would be in the script. Basically, the only real thing that supports it - that I am aware of - is just the opinions of people who are pro-Dooku. I like Count Dooku, and I agree that it doesn't make sense that he can WTFpwn Obi-Wan and yet Anakin can kick his ass, but Star Wars happens to be full of inconsistencies. There is no escaping it.

According to almost every other source that I have consulted, canon: the script, the novelization and non-canon: official Databank, Wikipedia, Wookipedia, and all other Revenge of the Sith-related books and guides indicate that Dooku was simply attempting to fight Anakin, and that he was trying his best.

In Labyrinth of Evil, Sidious said that "the fight must seem real", and that Anakin has to prove his worth by besting Dooku. So, knowing that Sidious would want the fight genuine to prove if Anakin possesses the power to join them, I'm not convinced that Dooku would go 'easy' on him.

All of the sources, and the commentary, state that Count Dooku was simply overpowered by Anakin's rage and incredible strength. Not that he was 'faking'.
actually the script is what they say not why they say, and plus dooku was under the assumption he would be kept alive and suffer a few years of prison before returning to serenno.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. So?
2. Except it's clear he used his mastery of Soresu to beat him
3. And they're wrong, Dooku even admits inferiority.
4. No sweat? He was beaten by Yoda and turned tail
no, he had the death star plans and was trying to get them safely out

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FART FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFART

kid if you're not going to post something worthwile, don't post at all!

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FART FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFA
RTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFARTFART
FARTFART

What are you? An eight year old kid?

no, eight year old know better than to mess with Maul fanboys

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
no, eight year old know better than to mess with Maul fanboys fanboy alert (watch out he might start beating off to maul)

what did my cousin do to you guys (i just got home to find that little shit up to this

i just said i was a maul fanboy...idiot, plus if it wasn't already painfully obvios that i already was..., but unlike you i have controll of my fanboyish behavior.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
what did my cousin do to you guys (i just got home to find that little shit up to this He raped me.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
what did my cousin do to you guys (i just got home to find that little shit up to this

he taught me to make weed...

DAMN HIM JUST BECAUSE HE'S THE ANTI-CHRIST DOESN'T MEAN HE SHOULDN'T FOLLOW HIS FATHERS ORDERS

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
I suck at life.
Yay! I think a celebration is at hand. Elmtirk's first good post!